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IIT: Underrated science/math schools.
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IIT: Underrated science/math schools.
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ITT: Faggots who went to shitty schools lie to make themselves feel better. Stay mad.
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>>7801565
hahaha epic poast my friend, you sure trolled them hard xD
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>>7801476
Yeah, definitely underrated. It's ranked #1 for condensed matter physics.

Fuck off.
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>>7801476
>illiniposter on /sci/

are you the rarest pepe, familia?
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>>7801476
I think most people rate Illinois very highly. I know I certainly do
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>>7801908

What's your school #1 in?
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>>7802015
Condensed Shitposting Studies.
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>>7801565
Hahahaha wow such creativity. You rock!
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so, I need to pick up two semesters of physics as a biology major. I only need algebra based physics...but I've had calc 1&2 did decently, should I just take calc based physics?
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Drexel for engineering.
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>>7802085
As someone who has only taken algebra-based, I say take the calc based version. Calculus is definitively more logically fit to physics, especially with mechanics
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>>7801997
I feel like schools outside like the top 5 aren't as well regarded to the "public". While most people have heard of Harvard, many haven't heard of Illinois.

But when it comes to people who's opinions actually matter it is a highly regarded program.
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>>7801476
under rated? UoI is like 3rd in the country for engineering or something
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>>7802384
Sadly people still don't know about it though even though its up there in those lists.
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>people on 4chan obsessed with going to good schools, the goodness of schools, rankings, reputations, and all this stuff that has little impact on what you can do as a student

Figures it'd be here.
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>>7802425
How the hell is that school an underrated math school? In Canada it is known as THE math and cs school.
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>>7802015
CS
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>>7802438
Internationally. Even in the US. People don't recognize that it's a farm for silicon valley companies
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>>7801476

UT Austin and Texas A&M.
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I think University of Maryland - ranked like 60 something by US News and Reports, but it's like top 25 engineering and top ~20 physics and CS.
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>>7802448
That has more to do with the fact that the general public doesn't know Canada or anything about it.
Ask the average American about Canadian universities, all you'll hear from them is McGill. They won't even say UBC or U of T.
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>>7801476
Illinois is a top institution for computer science.... I do not think it is underrated. However, what do you think about pic related?
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>>7802945
UCL is good but I feel it's slightly overrated due to the fact it's in London. Sure, it's a good school but their undergrad Math degree seems pretty shitty.
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>>7803069
What makes you say that? What about their PHd (or DPhil, or whatever you call them their) in (pure) math?
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Clemson
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>>7802434

There is, but I mean let's be honest; There is still some extent to where you want to get a degree - You wouldn't want to go to a shit-tier school up in West Virginia that has a dropout rate of 40%
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>>7802434
>the school you go to doesnt correspond to the respectability and experience of the faculty
>the school you go to doesnt hold any weight with employers
>the school you go to doesnt correspond to the research experiences you may be afforded
>the school you go to doesn't hold weight with national labs who do on campus recruitment at certain unis and not others
community college kid detected. it does matter. I took a circuit analysis class thats required for my major at my uni, and took it again (i had 8 classes that semester, neglected that course and got a C+) at a local CC over the summer, and we not only took over half of the summer semester to get to material covered within the first 2 weeks at my uni, we also completely skipped phasers and other shit that is supposed to be required. needless to say I got an A. even the homework was piss easy comparatively.
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>>7803111
I go to John Hopkins nigger

and I didn't say it didn't matter, it just matters less than people think it does

There are literal retards on here that think that a grad from UCB with a 3.4 will beat out some kid from some shitty CSU with a 3.8, and the same internships, and then reality hits them when they apply to jobs and realize that they should have tried a little harder
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>>7803122
if your gpa isnt below 3 and youve got internships, you should be fine with any job from a known school, at least for engineers. hell i got a call from LLNL recently about a research position and I dont even have my gpa on my resume
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People on /sci/ or those involved in science/engineering might have some appreciation for Caltech but honestly, most people I meet in general just think its another Cal state.

It has no where close to the name recognition/prestige that MIT/Cal/Stanford or even lesser known places like CMU have among the general public.
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>>7803098
What major are you, fellow Clemsonbro? I'm a ME junior myself.
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>>7803237
for real?
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>>7803098
>>7803260
Junior EE Clemsonbro here
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>>7803404
Yes.

That's been my general experience when talking to non science/engineering people. And this is in SoCal so you would think there would be more regional knowledge/bias at least.
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>>7803122
>I go to John Hopkins nigger
>I go to John Hopkins
>John Hopkins
>John

I'm not the guy you're replying to, but obviously you are a fucking community college kid. No chance you go to Johns Hopkins.
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>>7803237
>>7803419
Do normie retards really not know about Caltech?
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>>7802924
I wish...
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>>7803237
Anyone who knows what a cal state is should know about fucking CalTech. Unless they never went to school and weren't alive when the aerospace industry basically grew out of southern California and places like Pasadena. Shit man... JPL.

Cal states are the fucking worst. Source: my life.
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>>7803738
>Anyone who knows what a cal state is should know about fucking CalTech.
You'd think so but even among people that know Caltech by name, many/most aren't really aware of its academic/research standing, its extremely small size relative to other "elite" universities and the rigor of its undergraduate program.

Also, not to be pedantic, but the "t" in Caltech is never capitalized.
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>>7803752
>Also, not to be pedantic, but the "t" in Caltech is never capitalized.
Okay but I hope you realize how little sense that makes
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>>7803756
Yeah, I'm not sure how that started but it was always drilled into us that a capital "t" is incorrect.
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École Normale Supérieure, aka the school with most Fields Medalist alumnis, while only having 40 student per year in Mathematics.
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m8s
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>>7801701
this 2bh

punches above it's weight
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>>7803777
It's clearly not underrated... Every math researcher knows what the ENS is and also the School Polytechnique. Probably one of the best schools in the world in maths.

As far as I know it's not really a uni and there are very few students with hardcore selection
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>>7803777
who fellow normalien here?
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>>7803915
nope. CS/EPFL filth scum reporting in
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>>7801908
That's what I mean. It's godly, but people don't know about it. MIT/Caltech/Berkeley get all the glory.
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>>7803237
>It has no where close to the name recognition/prestige that MIT/Cal/Stanford or even lesser known places like CMU have among the general public.
Quite true desu. But also it's a pure hardcore science school. Some students that are future researchers might think more fondly of it than MIT for that reason, but MIT still has a business school, humanities, etc. Dem dumb kids gotta be able to see themselves there to glorify it.
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>>7803880
>Every math researcher knows blah blah blah
That's the point, no one else besides people who look into departments thinks it's prestigious. It's like going to study math there, versus somewhere like Dartmouth for math. Someone on the street is going to think the Dartmouth guy is more capable.
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I literally have never even heard of this place or knew of its existence before looking at top 10 physics program ratings.
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>>7804076
wtf is this?
haruard?
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>>7803237
I don't know if I agree. In my mind it's got the mystic of a shool that is MIT light. I mean in a film if they want to show a character is smart they say "he went to MIT, top of his class". In the hunt for red October the solar guy went to Cal Tech and was the genius there. Idk do people think cultural references are a valid proxy for public opinion?
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>>7804251
It's marketing. I guess it works because the schools are already memes. If someone said Harvey Mudd no one would immediately "get" that he's a genius.
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>>7804251
if you know your shit, you don't really care if someone went to MIT or Cal Tech.
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One of the few schools with a non-meme computer science program
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>>7801476

Is Illinois really underrated? Normies may not know much about it, but I thought it had a great reputation in STEM.

Good to see UCSB. I'm a Califag, so nice to see UCSB get some love.

I'd add Washington, UC San Diego, Texas, Wisconsin-Madison, Indiana, Florida to the list.
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>>7804279
>Normies may not know much about it
That's the point of the thread fampai

>Wisconsin-Madison
Completely agree, I was surprised to see them on lots of ranking lists when I was applying to schools, also never knew they existed.
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>>7804279

What about Texas A&M? It might not be as well reputed as Texas but it's huge alumni network makes it easier to land a well paying job in STEM
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>>7802438
>cucknadian school
>being worthwhile for anything
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fight me
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>>7803237
Are you stupid? EVERYONE knows what CalTech is...Sheldon works there...
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>>7804276
>non-meme
>computer science program
Every computer science program is a meme
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>ctrl+f my shitty school
>no results

It's no Berkeley by any means, but the STEM programs are dragged down by the other garbage departments. Other schools get away with this, but I think mine focuses too much on being well-rounded.
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>>7802085
Take calc-based physics. As long as you're confident in calc the math is way more straightforward.
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>>7804276
Why not do EE/CE then? Literally a cheerleader from my HS went into that program, she only had like 80 in grade 12 CS, although my school is quite acadically rigorous, teaching shit like O notation

How can that not be meme tier?
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>>7804409
I went to this school as well. They push a lot of gen-ed, but their math/cs program is real. Also, literally half the school is in the bio program, trying to get into SBU medical.
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>>7804413
>cheerleaders and jocks are stupid

Reddit-tier meme.
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>>7804441

Shouldn't you be training for the big game on Monday, Brad?
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>>7804263
Karolinska is presitigous as fuck in europe, definitely not underrated.
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Valrose
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>>7804246
The school's name is Vetasri. No one ever seems to get it right.
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>>7804441
Well she did get an 80 despite probably sucking the teacher off everyday

I skipped like 27 classes and got 94.
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>>7804279
>Washington, UC San Diego, Texas, Wisconsin-Madison, Indiana, Florida

Notice how thet are all public schools. I think public schools are just generally underrated.
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>>7803237
>some appreciation
>school literally on shortlist for best /sci/ school in entire world
>only SOME appreciation

wow
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>>7804501
Tbf for its level it doesn't make the list of HYPSM

You could say the same for Berkeley but Berkeley is public and has that "bottom tier" of their 90% California student body that still brings them down. It's more prestigious for its grad, meanwhile Caltech ugrad is rigorous with no exceptions.
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>>7804543
>Cal literally accepts top 10% of the students in California
>"brought down" by people who don't even get in
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>>7804545
What? I said Berkeley is public and so has a responsibility to the state to accept more unqualified in-staters. Caltech doesn't have to give a shit.
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>UIUC
>underrated
Are you fucking with me right now? This entire fucking town revolves around it, anyone who's anyone in Illinois went to it, and it has one of THE BEST computer science programs in the fucking world. Very competitive, a shit ton of competition for placement, and above all, priority in just about any position of employment in this state.
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>>7801476
best geology program in the country
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>>7804761
This thread is just pointing out non-Ivy League schools that are good. It's pointless.
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>>7804761
>This entire fucking town revolves around it
>A college town revolves around its college
What a shocker.

Also
>anyone who's anyone in Illinois went to it
I think in the state of Illinois Chicago and Northwestern are generally considered more prestigious.
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>>7804813
>implying Ivy Leagues are actually good at STEM besides Harvard, Princeton, Cornell
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>>7804549
Berkeley honestly has such a small difference between the average in state student vs the average out of state student that this argument makes no sense.
They also don't decrease the rigor of classes just to accommodate less qualified students.
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UNC
North Carolina State
Duke
Georgia Tech
UVA
Cornell
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>>7804916
But anon, UVA is shit-tier in the sciences.
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>>7804939
Ok agreed. I meant Virginia Tech for their engineering programs.
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>>7804766
please stop posting these meme school
nobody has heard of it
nobody cares about it
it isn't good at anything
i have a feeling that every time someone posts this, it is actually the same guy
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>>7804882
I don't see where anyone remotely implied that, but okay. Glad you found a way to feel superior to the students of 5 schools.
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>>7804409
>>7804436

I went to Stony Brook too. I was a chemistry major. It was good academically, but man was it a depressing place.
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>>7803237
Anyone else find it humorous that on a board dedicated to science, multiple anons are incorrectly referring to Caltech as "CalTech" or "Cal Tech"?

Come on /sci/, you're better than this, get your shit together.
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>>7804979
Ivy Leagues are welcome, except that Harvard and Princeton are obviously meme schools, and Yale is well-known but not for science.
I would personally say that Cornell is underrated, as it's seen as a "lower-tier Ivy" but is top 10 in physics, and has the best engineering program of the conference.
The other schools don't really stand out enough to be "underrated" for STEM desu.

>>7805015
Random people don't know desu, I guess capitalizing the "T" seems more correct. I wouldn't have guessed until I explored their website a bit.
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>>7805015
>protip: no one actually cares about caltech or any american school for that matter except americans themselves.
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>>7801701
True. I was at a scientific computing convention here in Austin (I go to UT) and met a cool ass Australian guy from there
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University of Alabama at Huntsville.
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>>7805042
I would agree if you said the flagship UA tbf.
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>>7805023
>harvard and princeton are meme schools
>literally the undisputed best math programs in the world

kill yourself
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Every German university in existence
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>>7805050
UA does have a great engineering program, but UAH has massive ties with NASA and a running ton of aerospace and military developers that are located in the Huntsville area. I mean hell, it's the least thought of of the UA system...even UAB gets higher billing.
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>>7805055
Point is they don't fit in this thread, faggot.
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>>7804543
>>7804545
>>7804549
>>7804884

I went to Berkeley and have mixed feelings about it's overall perception. Sometimes I feel its reputation is actually vastly overrated and the average Cal diploma's prestige is essentially being subsidized by a really small part of the campus community, namely the STEM departments.

It's STEM programs are great. Highly ranked departments, great research faculty, high caliber students and rigorous academics. Of course, the vast majority of Cal students aren't studying STEM, they're doing some bullshit psychology/sociology/feminist dance therapy major.

Getting into Cal shouldn't be all that difficult if you come from a middle class or higher, stable family and went to a reasonably good HS. And this is exactly were most Cal students come from. It's even easier if you go the CC transfer route.

Even at comparably non "elite" schools, the top students are going to be pretty damn good. This is why in some ways I think the best judge of a school overall is by its bottom tier students, not top tier. The bottom tier at Cal is abysmal. These are the athletic scholarship students primarily in the basketball/football programs, some of whom can't read beyond a low HS level, if that. Even without the "student" athletes, the lower tier at Cal is nothing special. Again, it isn't all that difficult to get straight A's and good SAT scores in HS. At a large school like Cal, you probably have several hundred or thousand students that many of us would say have no business being there. I doubt there is even a single student at Caltech that isn't at least slightly above average intelligence.

This is what most impresses me about a place like Caltech. Sure, not every Caltech student is a genius or is going to have a successful academic career, but even their lowest tier of students are pretty damn impressive.
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Their physics program is good, they were on my application list for that reason.

This definitely makes them seem promising:
>http://www.nytimes.com/1990/08/18/us/florida-state-beats-mit-for-science-center.html
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>>7805026
Seeing as America leads in science and industry, why does it matter what non Americans think?

Also, your statement is objectively false, many non Americans value US degrees.
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>>7805081

In addition, I wouldn't be surprised if 80-90% of non-STEM Cal students would fail out of Caltech within the first quarter. Of course, they'd fail out of Cal's STEM courses within the first quarter too, but somehow I doubt most Caltech students would have much trouble with the workload from the Asian Studies program at Cal, or even one of the STEM majors.
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>>7805091
>Seeing as America leads in science and industry
leads what exactly?
Because all I see is european and korean technologies being used while apple is still trying to stick sub-par watches on everyone's wrists.
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>>7805056
So true, my fellow German.
The rankings suck, because they don't keep our different academic system in mind. The top research in Germany is concentrated (huehuehue) in research centers which are independent from the universities. Therefore, the publications and citations are not registered for the universities. Fucking rankings, dude
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>>7805081
I'm >>7804543, that's exactly what I'm saying. Berkeley's perception is mainly based on its reputation in STEM, especially grad school. Also its Nobel Prize collecting faculty and elements on the periodic table definitely don't hurt.

Public schools (normally) always have a larger amount of seats to fill, and so will always be less selective than privates, especially small ones like Caltech.

>Getting into Cal shouldn't be all that difficult if you come from a middle class or higher, stable family and went to a reasonably good HS. And this is exactly were most Cal students come from. It's even easier if you go the CC transfer route
Assuming in-state, I'm sure that's true. I would think the 10% that are OOS/int'l and admitted would be above average, though. Or perhaps really wealthy (last time I checked Berkeley doesn't give a shit about aid for non-state residents).

>It's STEM programs are great. Highly ranked departments, great research faculty, high caliber students and rigorous academics. Of course, the vast majority of Cal students aren't studying STEM, they're doing some bullshit psychology/sociology/feminist dance therapy major
I have to say I'm slightly jelly, I go to Michigan and it's flipped here. Even though basically everything is in the top 25, it's the humanities stuff that's ranked #1-5 in the US rather than STEM.
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>>7805127
I think we're in agreement.

Overall, I think the US ranking system really sucks. Its primarily based on a combination of department strength (which is fine) but also name recognition and popularity. There are probably more Cal students enrolled right now than living Caltech alumni.

I grew up and still live in CA so I meet tons of Cal grads who are completely unremarkable. My best friend from HS went to Caltech and the overall student body seems so much more impressive.

It really sucks for the small schools like IIT, RIT, RPI, Harvey Mudd. I think all of those places are really underrated and the average graduate is probably smarter and more accomplished than at the larger schools like Cal or even the Ivies. I've met some absolute retards from Harvard/Yale.

>Assuming in-state, I'm sure that's true.
Sorry, I should have specified in-state. Out of state is a much higher caliber of students for sure.

>>7805127
>I go to Michigan
The one time I visited Ann Arbor I really loved it. That to me is the perfect college atmosphere, much better than Cal/UCLA. There's really something to be said about the whole college town vibe, for me at least.

I supposed the grass is always greener on the other side.
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>>7805187
Well, Heidelberg, Tübingen and the elite engineering schools, RWTH and KIT, are also very good German universities
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>>7805187
>underrated
>literally the beat uni in Germany
>>
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>>7805235
Best*
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>>7805255
No. RWTH and the KIT are better universities than TUM when it comes to engineering. Heidelberg is better when it comes to science.
In addition to that, the mentioned universities have major external research facilities which are independent from the university and kinda "steal" citations and publications from the universities. So they're even better compared to TUM.

Why would you want to study at TUM?
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>>7805266
http://www.topuniversities.com/where-to-study/europe/germany/top-universities-germany-201516
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>>7805266
>Why would you want to study at TUM?
I wouldn't I just said it was best because I saw it in the ranking somewhere...oh look>>7805317 this anon posted it. I would far prefer Heidelberg, of possibly Bonn since I've read that it's the best uni for math in Germany.
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>>7805317
Did you even read what I fucking wrote?!
TUM has less external research institutions which concentrate the top researchers of the city while being independent from the university despite some lectures.
The publications and citations of these institutions aren't registered for the universities in those rankings.

Therefore:
TUM (less external research institutions) -> more publications and citations for the university

RWTH, KIT, Heidelberg, Tübingen (more external research institutions) -> less publications and citations for the university

These rankings doesn't take account of this special system in the German academic system and therefore, universities with a more central organisation perform better in these ranking. It's a broken instrument for the comparison of German universities.
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>>7805335
But can you quantify how much higher RWTH, KIT, Heidelberg, etc would be accounting for their external research institutions? And number of research papers is only part of what those rankings take into account.
I still think TUM wouldn't be outside top 3 - my professors speak highly of it. But since I'm not a German, I want to hear your opinion as one.
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>>7805345
It is a top university in Germany for sure, but not the best. The excellence of a German university depends heavily on the subject you're studying.

Physics - Heidelberg
Biology/Life Sciences - Freiburg and Heidelberg
Chemistry - TUM
Mathematics - Bonn
Engineering - RWTH and KIT... and TUM
Medicine - Heidelberg, Berlin and Tübingen
Humanities and Neuroscience - Tübingen
Economics - Mannheim, Bonn
Social sciences - Mannheim
Business - Mannheim, FFSM, WHU
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>>7805365
But, its like that everywhere, though. In America for example, MIT is ranked as best in engineering and Harvard in Math, yet MIT is at the first place. in overall rankings and Harvard at the second. There are many things that influence these ratings, such as: academic reputation, employer reputation, citations per faculty, etc.
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>>7805394
But Harvard ist the best in a lot of academic fields, isn't it?

Business, economics, social science, humanities, neuroscience, mathematics, medicine, biology, life science. It's the best one in this stuff, ain't it?

What about chemistry and physics? Harvard or MIT?
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>>7805409
MIT is better at natural sciences, for example, and Harvard is better at Life sciences and medicine.

Keep in mind though that this isn't exact science though. It all depends on what ranking you look at, and what ranking methods they use. The differences are usually marginal, but they are there none the less.
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>>7805409
Your "best" are actually usually shit for learning. They're amazing if you're there as a grad student doing research, or if you already know a fuckton about the subject and can dive into assisting with research, but really and truly, you don't want to be at a place like MIT as an undergrad trying to learn something like Calc III.
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>>7805456
Of course you do.
In MIT you actually learn, while at lower universities you plug 'n chug or memorize stuff without understanding it.
If MIT is too hard for you and you can't pass the calculus classes, then it isn't for you. But for the top students, being at such a top university is simply the best option if you can afford the (worthy) difficulty.
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>>7805456

>They're amazing if [...] you already know a fuckton about the subject [...] but really and truly, you don't want to be at a place like MIT as an undergrad trying to learn something like Calc III.

Then tell me how the fuck you are going to "know a fuckton" about "Calc III" if you went to a shitty school with an easy class?
To actually "know a fuckton" about it, there's no better place to be than at a top university.
>>
>>7805466
accreditation institutions have standardized virtually all undergrad curriculum. calc 3 at MIT is the same as anywhere else m8.

you don't go to MIT for the courses, you go for the research opportunities and networking.
>>
>>7805501
Don't bother, he thinks trying to follow the lectures of a Hindu TA visualizes functions as colors because that's how it makes sense to him as imparting a level of understanding that can't happen at any place outside of the top Five rated institutions. God forbid you learn from someone who can actually teach.
>>
>>7805501
At a shitty college you will have a shitty professor, use a plug 'n chug textbook like Stewart and learn only superficial stuff.

At top universities you will have a great professor, use a proof-based textbook like Apostol and actually understand at a fundamental level the content of the course.

The difference isn't just research.
>>
>>7805462
>while at lower universities you plug 'n chug or memorize stuff without understanding it.
That's just factually untrue.
>>
>>7805513
what book you use is entirely dependent on the course m8.

mechanical engineers at MIT aren't using Apostol.
>>
>>7805501
There is still a tremendous amount of leeway in how deeply the material is covered, the pace at which it is taught, and the scale on which you are graded.

That doesn't automatically mean that the highest ranked schools are always best but its asinine to argue that there is no difference in the material that's covered.

>>7805513
Even more important than those things which you listed are your peers. Arguably, one of the biggest advantages the top schools enjoy is the quality of the students.

Try taking Calc 3 at a CC vs at MIT. Even if the same book is used and both are taught by similarly good teachers, the course will have incredibly variance just b/c the students are of such different abilities.
>>
>>7805528
You have to use specific books in the US? In Germany, the professors says: "That's the topic of the module, these are my recommended books but buy whatever you want, I don't fucking care. Fuck you"
>>
>>7805546
That's pretty awesome that is
>>
>>7805513
>At top universities you will have a great professor whom you might see once a week because he's too busy doing research/continuing to secure grant money to be bothered with your entry level ass.
TFTFY
>>
>>7805541
>There is still a tremendous amount of leeway in how deeply the material is covered, the pace at which it is taught

yeah, they still separate calc into three courses the same as every other school in the US, i'm pretty confident that the syllabus detailing the course topics at MIT is similar if not identical to any other institution.

the grade curve and the competition is more intense for sure, but the actual material is the same. it has to be, because believe it or not, MIT takes transfer students.

once again, its standardized. its all standardized.
>>
>>7803237
BAZINGA
>>
>>7805546
Our professors get kickbacks from publishing companies to make the book required for a course.

why do you think they cost $300+ each?
>>
>>7805564
Your books cost $300+?! What the fuck?
The most expensive book I bought this semester was one for 50€. The only students here who really invest in their books are the law students.

Even though, I had one course with a compulsary book this semester but it was the book of the professor who taught the course (greedy bastard) and it only costs 10€, so it isn't a big deal.
>>
>>7805577
Say, youre that German guy, right? What do you go to?
>>
>>7805579
What uni*
>>
>>7805056
German here, is there one that is universally thought to be shit? Always wondered about that as our universities seem to be quite excellent across the board, with only a handful of standout ones.
>>
>>7805579
University of Mannheim.
It's Germany's leading public research university when it comes to economic and social sciences and the most prestigious business school. Not some kind of hillbilly university where the professors don't care because you'll end up as a NEET anyway.

>>7805590
That's true.
I guess a reason for this is the fact that the tradition of private universities isn't present in Germany and the state wants education to be equally good throughout Germany even though they seem to have changed their mind (excellence initiative).
>>
>>7805564
>why do you think they cost $300+ each?
Literally never had to pay $300 for a book.
>>
>>7805616
>I guess a reason for this is the fact that the tradition of private universities isn't present in Germany and the state wants education to be equally good throughout Germany even though they seem to have changed their mind (excellence initiative).
From what I think I remember about the German education system is that y'all also don't pretend that everyone should go to a 4 year university.
>>
>>7804989

Absolutely, """""Spring""""" semester makes me want to kill myself.
>>
>>7805647
True as well. Our dual education system is actually pretty good. However, nowadays we start to abandon the old Prussian education system where you'll be seperated at the age of 10 in three different schools depending on your grades. Only the best one of these (grammar school) will eventually lead to a qualification for university. Nonetheless, you can continue your education after finishing one of the other school types and get your university qualification.

But as I said, nowadays it's a bit different. You have more and more schools without this kind of seperation. You still have to get good grades to get into the higher classes and get your university qualification, but the students are taught together regardless of whether the intellectual level is homogenous or not.
Most of the time, it's easier to get good grades in these schools than it is in grammar schools but even grammar schools aren't as elitist as they were a few decades ago.

All of that lead to an heavy increase in college freshmen particularly since the tuition fees were abolished. I really hope that our dual education system won't become obsolete due to these reforms
>>
>>7805673
Any comments on >>7805240 ?
>>
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>ITT: Post your university
>>
>>7805676
Well, I'm a little biased against Austrian universities, because a LOT of German students attend them if they can't get into German universities due to the high requirements in some cases (especially medicine, veterinary medicine, dentistry and psychology).

Therefore, I always think about them as second-class plan B institutions if you're somehow not able to get into a German university.

Sorry to all Austrian anons.
>>
>>7805673
>All of that lead to an heavy increase in college freshmen particularly since the tuition fees were abolished. I really hope that our dual education system won't become obsolete due to these reforms
I hope so for y'all's sake as well.

In the US the bachelor's degree is what the high school diploma was 20-30 years ago. A bach is required for some of the most retarded things now (go to any state job listing's website and you'll see some of the more egregious examples of this) all while we have basically no skilled tradesmen these days.
>>
>>7805692
There's a similar thing already established in Germany.

20-30 years ago, you only had to have a secondary school leaving certificate (after 10 years of school) to get apprentice places at banks and insurance companies. Nowadays, it's almost impossible to get one without an A-level certificate (after 12-13 of school with at least the last 3 years attending grammar school).

As you can imagine, the "Hauptschule" (the worst school type in the old Prussiand three-path-system) is pretty much dead and no parents would ever think about sending their kids there, because for most blue collar jobs you need the secondary school leaving certificate after 10 years instead of the "Hauptschulzeugnis" after 8-9 years. That's one of the reasons why they merged the school types together in most federal states... except Bavaria; it's the German Texas with a lot of conservative christians who love the way it's been done in the good ol' days kek
>>
>>7805717
Sounds like y'all aren't as bad as here yet.

Check this out:
https://jobs.ca.gov/JOBSGEN/3PB31.PDF
(Possession of a Master's Degree in Public, Personnel, or Business Administration or related field may be
substituted for one year of the required experience. Possession of a Master's Degree in Hospital
Administration with a one-year internship in a hospital or its equivalent may be substituted for the
required experience.) and Education: Equivalent to graduation from college. (Additional qualifying
experience may be substituted for four years of the required education on a year-for-year basis. Any
work experience gained in State service may be used to meet this education requirement on a year-foryear
basis.)


This is for an Administrative Assistant I position.
>>
>>7805741
I'm actually ok with this since its for a cushy state job that requires no actual skills and it will be impossible to fire someone once hired.

I agree in general though that we use way too much credentialing in this country and we should focus more on the trades.
>>
>>7805741
It's a job in public administration, right? That's a nice thing here. Apply for one of these after graduation (either directly after grammar school or after getting your bachelor's, master's or PhD degree) or stay the fuck away from it. Pretty low requirements here.

On the other hand, our public servants (besides attorneys and judges) don't receive a lot of appreciation, probably due to the low competition

The requirements for this job offer are pretty ridiculous though. Is the job market this tough in the US?
>>
>>7805764
The compensation/benefits for certain state/municipal level jobs can be really good, especially here in CA. It tends to be difficult to fire people due to the power of public service employee unions and a position like that requires absolutely no real skills.

The only way to ensure that position won't be staffed by a complete and utter retard is by having onerous educational requirements that have nothing to do with performing the actual job. Despite that, it will still probably be staffed by a retard, but there is at least a small chance it won't.
>>
>>7802170
>most people haven't heard of Illinois
It's literally a state.
>>
>>7805779
The compensation and benefits for public servants in Germany are also very good (especially when it comes to taxes, health insurance and pension). But you only get the public servant status if you're pretty young. Otherwise you will be a normal employee and without the public servant status you're payment will be much worse and in addition to that, you won't enjoy the benefits of a public servant. That's why you need to apply directly after graduation.


I really have to go to sleep now, it's 3:20 am here

Thanks for the talk, bye :)
>>
>>7805795
That seems like a much better system than what we have in the US.

Take care Germanbro.
>>
Sometimes i wonder if US Universities are garbage:

I have a friend at University of Wisconsin - Madison (Rank 14 in Math) and the level of math they have there is ridiculously easy.

I wonder if the US standard is low compared Germany.
>>
>>7804399
>Sheldon works there...
And he relentlessly ridicules the engineer from MIT
>>
>>7804882
>>implying Ivy Leagues are actually good at STEM besides Harvard, Princeton, Cornell

Yale is lightyears ahead of your school in STEM
>>
>>7805849
Which guy is from MIT and does that show actually mention Caltech by name or show the campus at all?
>>
>>7805849
He mostly ridicules him because he *only* has a Masters degree and the rest of them have a PhD
>>
>>7805118
>leads what exactly?

Nobel Prizes
Anymore stupid fucking questions?
>>
>>7805859
Wolowitz is from MIT
Never show campus, and yes, on occasion they do mention Caltech
>>
>>7805859
It mentiones CalTech like every episode. They dont show the real campus, but they pretend they are at the university, sometimes in the mess sometimes in the lab doing experiments. Given the fact that it's the most watched sitcom these days. CalTech has become a house hold name
>>
>>7805855
>Yale is lightyears ahead of your school in STEM
>Yale's engineering programs aren't ABET accredited and you legally can't practice engineering with a B.Eng from Yale

LOOOOL
>>
>>7805932
>>>7805859
>CalTech has become a house hold name
Yet still incorrectly written by anons on /sci/.

This triggers me.
>>
>>7805959
It was actually autocorrect and I can't be bothered to correct my autocorrect
>>
>>7805959
it's probably written "incorrectly" by all of the faculty, staff, student body, and alumni from time to time.
>>
>>7805957
1. Yes they are.

http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?OrganizationID=163&ProgramIDs=

2. Yale engineering graduates go on to Wall street and management consulting. Actual engineering jobs are for the bottom 70% of state school graduates.
>>
>>7805855
>Yale
>Better than Berkeley/UMich/Caltech/MIT/Stanford in STEM
>>7805975
W-working in the field you get a degree in is for chumps guys...
Everyone knows that the smart people are money grubbing assholes....
>>
>>7806004
Why even bother going to Yale if you're just going to be working alongside graduates of Ohio State and DeVry for only $70k starting?

What a waste of an Ivy league education. Meanwhile, the guys on your floor are now senators and CEOs, but you just got promoted to senior engineer. That's 5 more vacation days and a 2% raise. Pat yourself on the back, wagecuck.
>>
>>7801476
went UIUC UG->MIT PhD, UIUC was a clutch move
>>
>>7806095
In what? ECE?

Do you think having attended UIUC really helped you out?
>>
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>>7804395
In your dreams peon
>>
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>century of achievements
>never see mentioned on /sci/
>>
>>7806197
Seconded
>>
Different universities are good for different disciplines.
The Ivy League are shit for Computer Science, other than Cornell. They all have their token genius complexity theorist, but none of them have a solid CS program. MIT, CMU, Stanford, Berkeley, UWash, UIUC, GaTech trumped them early on and they never caught up. They didn't take CS seriously enough until it was too late.
>>
I just graduated from UIUC with a BS in chemistry. My gpa is shit and I'm too autistic to get a job. I'm delivering pizzas to pay back my loans at the pizza place across the street from the chemistry buildings I had classes in. Apparently the professor whose lab I briefly worked in stops by for lunch on occasion. If he saw me I might kill myself out of embarrassment. Being a dumb pleb that fell for the college meme sucks, man.
>>
>>7806151
Yeah, ECE. You may have an idea who I am.

Anyway, absolutely it helped. I didn't apply to many UG programs, nothing ranked beyond UIUC, but I don't think I'd have gotten in anywhere better. The quality of the EE department educationally is outstanding, the research is great if you look for a GOOD adviser who will place heavy responsibility on you, and if you put in the effort you can really distinguish yourself through departmental awards and performance like bronze tablet.

If you get in, and don't have any better options (i.e. A school in CA or MA) then it's Very possible to come out with awesome credentials. I also had a friend from there who went to ETH
>>
>>7806330
You're doing a PhD at MIT now, or you graduated?
>>
>>7806330
Nice, I'm ECE too.

What areas do you work in? I'm looking at circuits and hardware at the moment since I'm looking for areas to specialize in. Please advise, I don't wanna specialize in a meme-tier field senpai.
>>
>>7805862
Yeah nice peace Nobel Prize obama.
No one cares about Nobels except people who don't understand science and technology and can only use that as a metric
>>
>>7806004
>>7806017
>>7805975

Are the real great salaries found on Wall street and management consulting? Most people telling enrichment stories went to that sector...
>>
>>7806502
I know that feel.
Here all engineers are aiming to enter Goldman Sachs or similar companies. It appears the most prestigious jobs and higher salaries are in that field, even though it has little to do with engineering.
>>
>>7806502
no. the new hotness is sales engineering. commissions put you a 200k$ starting.
>>
>>7806533
Sales engineering?
Never heard of that.
What are the hot companies in that business?
>>
>>7805832
I'd say German universities are better than the majority of American colleges and universities, but worse than the US-American elite schools (Yale, Harvard, MIT, UCLA, UCB, Stanford,...).
But it's for free and that's pretty nice.

For the academic level of the American elite schools you have to go to research associations like the Max-Planck-institutes, Helmholtz-Association and Leibnitz-Association and other prestigous research centers.
>>
>>7805832
The ranking is based on research conducted by faculty, nt education. Assuming Wisconsin is like the better publics, they should offer multiple types of math. My school has babby easy freshman Calculus for Bio majors on one end and intense freshman Calculus with Spivak/Apostle on the other end, with Calculus for Engineers, Honors Calculus, etc. all in between. Students can choose whatever they want.
>>
>>7805855
>implying
Yale isn't, kek. But thanks for assuming.
>>
>>7804279
This is the best assertion I've seen so far I think. Texas and Wisconsin-Maddison are top tier excellent schools and most people aren't aware. I know both are top ten for chemical engineering Ph.D.'s.
>>
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>>7803915
Well..
>>
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>>7805059
>University of Alabama has a great engineering program
>>
>>7806326
Pizza place across from Noyes? What?
>>
>>7806992
>because joining a Jonestown-esque cult with an inferiority complex is a good idea
>>
>>7806017
My research advisor actually went to Yale for chemical engineering. He's a top tier researcher lol.
>>
Bristol and St Andrews in UK are underrated for math
>>
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>essentially founded by Texas Instruments
>excels in engineering (more specifically electrical, computer and bio), computer science, neuroscience, and supposedly the Arts and Technology program is good
>cybersecurity research recognized by the NSA
>nanotechnology
>entrance requirements progressively getting harder
The only thing that I dislike about my school is all the kids who major in the shit that UTD isn't known for complaining about how they didn't get accepted to UT Austin
>>
>>7807156
>St Andrews
>Bristol
They've never produced a single Fields medalist, Wolf Prize winner or Abel Prize winner, nor do they have anyone of that caliber on their faculties.

How are they underrated?
>hurr durr because I said so
>>
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>>7806621
Max Planck and so on are not universities though, you cannot go there to study. They often do have connections to universities, so you can write your master's thesis etc. there.
>>
>>7804472
>Notice how thet are all public schools. I think public schools are just generally underrated.

Completely agree. Outside of a few (Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, UVa), I think there are a ton of other great schools that don't get enough recognition.

>>7805081
>This is why in some ways I think the best judge of a school overall is by its bottom tier students, not top tier.

I agree with many of your points. But, I can't say that I agree with this. This comes back to the notion that college "is what you make of it". In other words, it's not where you go, but what you do when you're there.

Berkeley has, arguably, the best programs in the United States, if not the planet, in chemistry, physics, and several engineering disciplines (EECS, for one). So, if you're an undergrad at Berkeley, despite being at a school of 25k+ undergrads, you're, essentially, confined to the several hundred or so undergrads, grad students, faculty, post-docs, etc. in your field. You're exposed to some of the leading researchers in the world. You can conduct research in prominent labs, under renown faculty, in famed departments.
>>
>>7808114
Good to see this here. Heading there for Geography and most likely GIS next year. Stoked!
>>
>>7806095
Did you bang tons of hot sorority bitches?
>>
If you don't mind Indians that is
>>
>>7808264
Is the Engineering school any good there?
>>
>>7804916

nah man every cocksucking normie knows about Duke because of its sports
>>
>>7808281

Yeah I graduated from the program. It's pretty well ranked and has good faculty/connections. It's one of the largest research institutions on the east coast so it's easy to get involved as an undergrad.
>>
>>7808310
>>7808281
>>7808264
In the engineering school now, its ranked top 25 in most degrees
>>
>>7808264
There really is a LOT of Indians though, the amount of Patels at my sisters graduation was ridiculous
>>
>>7808264
This. Was in Kilmer library trying to study but 8 Indians sat next to me eating pizza and talking loudly about the best way to prepare for the MCAT.
>>
>>7809691
Those are prospective doctors bro
>>
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>>7801476
Posting from ece building at uiuc now

School is good, definitely underrated cause when I was applying for it I thought of it as a shitty school and was surprised to learn it was top 5 in my field

>browsing in class cause start of semester stuff with lots of easy review
>>
>>7808114
>see CU
>Get excited
>wrong CU
With all the weird kids at my school I would have thought at least a couple of them browsed a Mongolian cotton picking board
>>
>>7810174
Are there a lot of Asians?
>>
>>7810188
Which one is your CU?

>inb4 cooper union
>>
>>7810270
Yes, at least in the college of engineering
Currently listening to a conversation in Chinese in fact
>>
>>7810174
>>7810288
Hmm I might know who you are now...

>>7810270
Last time I checked the census data, ECE is something like 60% Asian.
>>
>>7810448
First letter of my name then friend
>>
I do think that any state school with a thorough set, in their math department, with all the relevant classes to a Ph.D in Mathematics - and if the school theme is neat, then it is appropriate.
>>
Private: Rose-Hulman is the top school that no one seems to know.

Public: University of Washington is a top public school and one of the best for undergrad especially
>>
>>7810174

Who's the chick wearing the orange shirt?
>>
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I go to NIU, I'm doing ME. How'd I do?
>>
>>7810773
"what is that" tier
>>
I'm going to be going to Portland State for electrical engineering.

It's not underrated, I'm just throwing my life away.
>>
>>7810595
Idk lel, there's like a million people in that lecture
>>
>>7808114
its okay
>>
>>7804916
fuck ya i go to gatech
but we arent underrated, damn near everyone in the south knows we are top tier
>>
>>7810859
>the south
>relevant
>>
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>>
It's bretty good
>>
>>7810832

You gotta be brave anon. Next time you see her ask your name.
>>
>>7801476
Implying Illinois is underrated.
>>
>>7804076
kek
>>
>>7801565
Great meme xDD
>>
>>7811055
>Over rated shit school that sucks money
>>
>>7805127
>Mich
>Flipped

The fuck are you talking about, we're top 10 in STEM you retard.
>>
>>7810773
NIU is worse than SIU, so not very well
>>
>>7811104
I guess I'm just salty because Berkeley is like top 5 in most STEM subfields while we're top 10-15ish. At least for physics anyway.
I'm not complaining tho.

2bh as someone doing physics and math I hate how much LSA emphasizes their dumb humanities while the CoE gets all the "nerdy science" news and recognition. Idk if it's that way at every school but the CoE environment makes me jelly.
>>
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>>7803048
>>
>>7811060
I have a gf though
>>
>>7811238

Two baes are better than one. Do it for that poor lil anon
>>
>>7802087
Bull fucking shit.
>>
>>7804409
Oh shit you mean it's not just me here?

Our Math department is so fucking based.
>>
>>7806995
noyes isn't the only chemistry building on campus
>>
>>7811060
she is fat anon

look at the pic again

it doesnt look like she would be worth asking her for her name
>>
>>7805684
cool uni m8. what's it like in USC? is it really ghetto in that area as compared to West Hollywood UCLA?
>>
>>7805832
US has a lot of outliers and few decent schools. it's either mediocre state public schools (aside from the UC system, UofM, UVa, etc) or the elite privates (Ivy league, MIT, Chicago)
>>
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>>7811103
>>
>>7811341
Let's see you dodge my handgun
>>
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>Study microbiology at Michigan State
>Proud of my school but never thought much of it as a science school
>Visit and tour the cyclotron there
>Mind blown, consider switching majors for like a week
>My face when top nuclear physics program in the country and didn't even know it

anyone else /sparty/ here? i had me a milkshake from MSU dairy yesterday
>>
>>7804766
HOW IS THEIR CHEMISTRY PROGRAM FOR PHD ???
>>
>>7804413
Because while the CS program is non-meme (in most scenarios, there are three or four completely worthless courses which are mandatory), the Math program is also very nice. As is the Stats program. Going into Engineering essentially rules out capitalizing on both of the latter two programs.
>>
RIT: I mean come on, it's a solid school for engineering.
>>
>>7806189
Gotta hand it to Rice, they do a good job of hiding the fact that they're just an expensive party school from the public.

Source: I went there
>>
>>7811375
SHIT. WE ONLY EXCELL AT EARTH SCIENCES AND PETROLEUM ENGINEERING.
>>
>>7810174
>tfw I went to UIUC for information science
?it's also the #1 program in the country
No one knows UIUC outside of specific fields, it's strange.
>>
>>7802087
For a long time I thought Drexel was a stationery brand
>>
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>>7804761
most people go there if they dont go to community college here. its a huge school.

its very very prestigious for engineering. I prefer the city and wasnt in engineering so i didnt go. not smart or rich enough to get into northwestern or Chicago though. I go to Loyola which I also think is a highly underrated school. I know many incredibly intelligent, successful people who went here. The only caveat is we are a huge premed school. unbelievably so. its a safe bet to say 50% of the student body has plans of med school.

we also have a very good math department apparently (im taking a couple courses from a guy who studied at MIT) and an impressive chemistry department with at least 1 millionaire recently named emeritus.
>>
>>7804409
>>7811253

Muh niggas. SBU Math major here.

But in all truth it is a depressing as fuck campus.
>>
>>7801476
Anyone know how financial aid is here four out-of-state people?
>>
>>7804409
>>7812899
>>7811253
Do you think UBuffalo or Binghamton is a better state school?
>>
>>7810548
What do you guys think about my claim?
>>
>>7810804
yeah but you'r in portland. hipster sluts and mild weather sounds like the place to be.
>>
>>7806555
>Sales engineering?
Sales Engineering is when you need someone who can sell your companies product, but also needs an engineering background so he can talk with other engineers/customers and assess their industrial/technical requirements.

they are hiring you for your salesmanship and charisma, the engineering degree part is a check to make sure you aren't some average jack off in terms of technical skill.

most of the sales engineers you see have a degree in industrial engineering with like an econ or business minor/double major.

its alot of social interaction and office politics, which is something most engineers in general avoid, not to mention there aren't alot of charismatic engineers out there so the demand is always high.

i personally couldn't do it because i hate people, but i have a friend from college who does it and he spends most of his time doing "corporate hospitality" and traveling.
>>
>>7813228
What's the next best pay:average happiness ratio job?
>>
>>7811319
It's a worse neighborhood, but not as bad as people make out. Campus itself is very safe.
>>
>>7813552
>best pay:average happiness ratio

Doesn't that not make sense? Wouldn't you want it to be best pay to 1/happiness ratio? Or else high happiness high pay would have the same ratio as low happiness low pay
>>
>>7806189
>>7811539
College?

Reporting from Baker here
>>
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Not the best schools out there but it is always underrated
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>>7811539
I think i'll be going there then, i can tell people that i go to Rice and at the same time enjoy this so called party school
>>
>>7805365
Guess I fucked up going to WWU Münster for Chemistry BSc. I didn't really know where to go and considered TU Clausthal as well. Just heard that it were fairly renowned Unis in that field, but latter is supposedly in the middle of nowhere and with a ridiculously high amount of exchange / foreign students.
>>
Samefag >>7814314
I ask because I didn't realise that Münster also happens to be so oriented towards students with a lot of bars and discotheques. Can't say I care about either and it is not like you have much from that apart from at the beginning of a semester.
And I can't say it is crappy or good compared to others, apart from that there are too many students in my opinion.

>>7805546
>>7805547
We even had a professor in analytical chemistry who recommended us not to buy any for undergraduates for his course, as all of them were lacking in at least one department.
Can't say there was any book I absolutely needed, tho it surely helped to read two or three chapters in some courses.
>>7805564
The most expensive recommended book I remember was 100 € (Hollemann-Wieberg Anorganic Chemistry) and then there are some like Clayden Greeves Organic Chemistry (90 €) which, judging by the /ogen/ threads here is considered rather great for the whole undergraduate studies and beyond. But yeah, I didn't buy any of them, though it is a pain to borrow then from the library when you need them).

>>7806488
One of our profs (Analytical Chemistry, again) mentioned that nobel prizes tend to be given away with political interests in mind. He pointed out one example about a very helpful method which was discovered by someone, then later a research group wrote a few papers on it, and only the latter received the nobel prize. Don't remember which role politics played in here any more.

Also another professor participated in a specialist group discussion with Merkel considering the future of the energy industry. He spoke about it like he tried not to say something negative, especially
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>>7814344
There's a reason why this madman didn't receive a nobel prize bro
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>>7811568
THANKS, MAYBE I'LL STAND A CHANCE OF BEING ACCEPTED THEN
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>>7811475
Too dumb for the U of R?
>>
>>7811539
>Rice
>Party school

Lmao. Your standards must be very fucking low then.
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