Why aren't we talking about KIC 8462852?
They just proved it's not comets.
>From the early 1890s to the late 1980s, KIC 8462852 has faded by 0.193+-0.030 mag. This century-long dimming is completely unprecedented for any F-type main sequence star. So the Harvard light curve provides the first confirmation (past the several dips seen in the Kepler light curve alone) that KIC 8462852 has anything unusual going on.
>Within the context of dust-occultation models, the century-long dimming trend requires 10^4 to 10^7 times as much dust as for the one deepest Kepler dip. Within the context of the comet-family idea, the century-long dimming trend requires an estimated 648,000 giant comets (each with 200 km diameter) all orchestrated to pass in front of the star within the last century.
>If Schaefer’s work holds up, the cometary hypothesis to explain KIC 8462852 is deeply compromised. We seem to be looking at the author calls “an ongoing process with continuous effects” around the star.
Recently proved it's not likely to be comets.
"I do not see how it is possible for something like 648,000 giant-comets to exist
around one star, nor to have their orbits orchestrated so as to all pass in front of the star
within the last century"
read the article.
I have honestly no idea what to believe. But, if by chance the whole superstructure thing turns out to be true, that'd be fucking amazing. Wonder how long until we figure out what these satellites are.
>It's also proven that it's not a Dyson cuck too faggot.
You went there and looked?
>It's a natural light obscurance
Even if this is true...
>there is nothing to talk about.
...this is complete bullshit.
Yes, clearly it's a measurement error in the photographic plates taken over a period of the last hundred years. You goddamned retard, read the fucking article.
Either it's something artificial, or it's something natural that we've never seen before. No matter what it turns out to be this will be big.
Stay fuckin hype lads.
I work maintenance on what you Earthlings are calling the
Well yes the structure is quite large, it's the appropriate size to harness the star KIC 8462852 (as you know it) energy and too fuel all our inter space travel and other stellar-engineering requirements.
The science behind the project to really fascinating as you can guess, the Union of Universal Science has made some great discoveries in past 50000 years, but it all started with the invention of warp drive which came from oh wait dammit I gotta get back work or my overseer is going to be displeased.
Sorry if I'm being retarded, but isn't it possible to have a black hole orbit a star? If that was the case, wouldn't that possibly cause dips as big as the ones we're seeing when it passes in front (or at least nearby) the star from our perspective?
I think they only figured out it probably isn't comets after all a few days ago, so the story is still developing.
But right now no one is sure what it could be. Of course everyone is hoping it's a megastructure, but if not it could still be something cool.
/sci/ made it for the star during the autumn thread series. Warosu is down right now so I can't retrieve the high res original. I thought she could have a role in the winter ball, but it was board tans only.
Anyway, here she is in IR and UV.
Yeah, no, I worked with a /sci/ drawfag on the concept. She's a yellow star, so blonde hair, her coat color is a nod to her infrared spectrum mystery, and of course she's blindfolded because we can't see what is occluding her.
We were sick of typing out KIC8462852 and nobody liked "Tabby's star" so the thread decided on Aichan for a name (ay...) and then anon offered to draw her up as a chan.
Google informs me the model is "Maetel" from something called Maetel Legend.
So, it can't be starspots because the rotation was measured at 0.88 d and the flux lasted for longer than that, and was not harmonic with the rotation period in any way.
Aichan is within the Gamma Doradus region of the instability strip and has its own, separate, g-mode variability, apart from the long term dimming trend, and apart from the 20% flux events measured by Kepler.
Tabby's short term Fourier transform identified differential rotation at Aichan's higher latitudes, and identified variation in luminosity associated with that, and it still leaves the big dips and the new century trend standing out.
Aichan's Kepler data shows sharp spikes of dimming, rather than the rounded curves expected from planetary occlusion. It looks more like an inverted flare. Sudden onset and sudden recovery.
Can you get bubbles of HeII and HeIII rather than spherical layers? A freak type of RR Lyrae whose internals look like a lava lamp rather than nested balls?
What are you talking about? The blue diamonds are KIC8462852. The other symbols in grey are other nearby stars for reference, to show that the dimming is not due to systematic observational artifacts.
Those are actually really good error bars (I'd kill to have a trend this clear in some of my own data).
Notice that the linear fits are typically within 1 or two error bars of the individual points (the dashed line just connects the first and last point, the other fits by minimizing chi squared). That's a good sign, meaning that the linear fit can reproduce the observation within the estimated uncertainty. Also notice that the first halve of the sample are definitely higher on average than the latter half, even when you take the error bars into account. This indicates a robust downward trend.
Aichan drawfag here. Here's a pic in higher res
I'll stick around to know if I will have to update Aichan (i.e. the "mistery" is solved and she lifts the veil from her face. Revealing ayylmao eyes? Or something far more unlikely?)
What about the SETI analysis? Have they analyzed already every possible transmission frequency from KIC?
although if it was extraterrestrials we would have heard something about it already. I think they've settled it down to some natural occurance. I'm not even sure if they're listening to KIC anymore.
Yeah the survey out west (US) turned up nothing. They said that it is likely that the distance and the sensitivity of the telescope may hinder detection of fainter, more likely signals, so the failure to detect is not dispositive. They could basically only detect a cosmic bullhorn pointed right at us.
But this new historical data is exciting the ay types again because it fits into the idea of a structure gradually expanding over a century long period. There is another survey coming with a better radio telescope.
Yfw there will never be a single trace of an alien life being discovered in your lifetime
feels very bad :( I feel like I'm just deluding myself with coming into these threads and hoping for someone to make a convincing argument. But then I get faced with the data and the fact that we have found none and I just wanna put the bed sheet over me and get depressed.
Does the idea of a Dyson Sphere seem really stupid to anyone else? A civilization advanced enough to build a gigantic superstructure around the sun should be advanced enough to find an alternative source of energy, right? Or find ways to consume less energy? There just doesn't seem to be a point to me. An advanced civilization would take the time and effort to do this. Also, closing off your own sun would have to violate some kind of intergalactic treaty.
Why do they need to be either intelligent or advanced?
Yeah, everybody wins. Humans are still the most advanced life in the universe in terms of intelligence, but there would conclusive evidence of life elsewhere.
Plus, who knows how these things might be disposed? Insectile, maybe, but they could be like jellyfish, or mackerel. They could even be like flying space doges we could domesticate.
Or, downspectrum, it could be a massive cosmic lichen with a metabolism based on digesting solar wind particles into some primitive replicating molecule. A Dyson Mildew.
Because if you read Dyson's original article, it was just a little throwaway think piece motivated by the then-current fad regarding runaway population overgrowth and impending Malthusian calamity and running out of everything.
He wasn't really interested in the question "what part does scale play in the possibilities of hypothetical life forms" he was just playing scifi with emerging energy concerns.
>It would only mean that we're the most GLORIOUS species in the universe
Now that's depressing.
Maybe they need the energy for something we can't relate to? Like some "alien" purpose. Hell, maybe it is a full-on human purpose and they are doing it for their "god" as part of the fruition of their species; long awaited Jesus day.
>It is comets + dust cloud.
Except it's not
Listen, nigga, if you consider everything you actually don't want us to find other intelligent life, even if they're around or technological level. I really don't buy into the whole star trek shit unless it's a human only society, we might just be too different to cooperate.
stars last for billions of years, its going to generate absurd amounts of energy in that timeframe.
>A case of fusion as a fossil fuel...?
Hydrogen instead of hydro-carbons.
pretty bad actually, if its not emitting heat that means that either the structure would cook itself, they are somehow converting it into something else and emitting that, or they are flat out violating some important rules of the universe.
So, this is just one star that was actually evident to oddly become dimmer for over a century but we only found out because we started to give it a closer look just now. There could be more stars like this and the data is already there we just need to check it.
>A civilization advanced enough to build a gigantic superstructure around the sun should be advanced enough to find an alternative source of energy, right? Or find ways to consume less energy?
Fuck off /greenpeace/ shitstain.
To sum it up
>the star dimmed about 20% over the course of 100 years
>at least several years ago it had periodic dips in brightness that made it another 20% dimmer for single days
>there is no excess IR radiation that indicates that occluding objects are heated up
>It's appears to be a normal F type star and this dimming is unprecedented for this type of star or any other kind of variable star
>the cause does not lie somewhere between the star and our solar system or in our solar system since such a cloud or object would have to remain in the line of sight for a century and didn't occult other stars in the same direction
>there are no signs for stellar mass companions responsible for the occultation
That's Maetel from Leiji Matsumoto's sci-fi manga "Galaxy Express 999". It's quite old now (first published in 1977), but it's something of a classic and is definitely worth a read/watch, even if you're not into animu. The author also did Space Pirate Captain Harlock and Space Battleship Yamato.
>Does the idea of a Dyson Sphere seem really stupid to anyone else?
Dyson sphere is pretty heavy overkill.
On the other hand all that sunlight that escape uncaptured is wasted and once you have the technology to build a gigantic orbital megastructure there's really no reason to not keep feeding it mass to get as close to dyson spherification as reasonably possible while considering mass availibility and orbital stability.
>What about the SETI analysis
The SETI analysis is analogous to going to the US east coast with a directional microphone and concluding that japan doesn't exist because you didn't hear anyone speak japanese.
The assumed aliens would need to emit a cataclysmically loud signal for it to show up on the instrments that the SETI data was pulled from.
Is this post intentionally stupid or just stupid?
If you can build a dyson ring/sphere why the fuck wouldn't you do it? It would let you house as many organisms as thousands of planets could support but without having to spend 100s or 1000s of years travelling between the stars.
What warms my heart is this: if this is a case of aliens, then some intelligent insect more than a thousand years ago was submitting progress reports and had fights over quality measurements and deadlines with subcontractors.
> Has no idea about the cost, time and resources you would need to build a dyson sphere
its harder than pressing a button and magically building stuff like in the videogames you play manchild.
It seems that people are jumping to a fantastical conclusion with the 'giant alien dyson-sphere-like megastructure'. We know so little about space, and most of it is just theoretical, there are likely other explanations for what is being observed. This is just outer space fantasy at this point.
Why don't we just make a telescope with a mirror that acts like it's as big as solar system instead? Or just build a reasonably large mirror, but do something to it on a tiny level so that it functions like a solar system mirror would?
Whatever is dimming Aichan need not be technological. Dyson's original concept really limited the speculation on this angle. Astrobiology has come a long way since 1960.
There could be a huge film building itself out of some simple replicating molecule that metabolises energy into matter, or matter into slightly more organized matter, and it might not even be "alive" by our current contentious definition.
Yes, but not on these multiple time frames. By size, absolute magnitude, and temperature, and mass, Aichan is a typical F3 type star. As common as a cockroach.
It lies just inside the Gamma Dor region of the instability strip, but Tabby's original paper accounted for those variations and measured them and confirmed them.
The big dips and the long fade are still unexplained. "Long period variables" is a thing, but it refers to weeks, not a century.
light waves/laser signals
Its the same as the move from copper wire to fibre optic, the light packets are so much smaller than radio ones (which are several meters) you can send a lot more information in a much smaller space of time and its reasonable to assume an advanced alien life is using something north of UV frequency EM waves to communicate rather than radio waves and we are looking for the wrong thing, although there is an observatory now looking for visible light rays.
But it probably isnt a dyson sphere, it is probably a Dyson Ring or swarm of some kind which if you read into Dysons actual paper is what he expected rather than an entire fucking sphere.
then consider also that
-the universe is relatively young. second generation stars are needed for heavy elements to appear
-there could be filters that intelligent species reach (nuclear annihilation, super intelligent AI etc)
-von neumann probes are not an inevitable consequence of aliums. maybe they just don't give a fuck about colonizing space.
-intelligence may just be rare. We may very well be the first in the galaxy (and other galaxies are basically impossible to reach)
and many more. The Fermi Paradox is cute to think about but there are sooo many factors that contribute to the equation..
You could be right, but here are my reasons why I suspect we are either alone or in a zoo.
> -the universe is relatively young. second generation stars are needed for heavy elements to appear
True, but it is still billions of years old. If life is common, you would expect a lot of species to have predated us by at least a few hundred thousand years. It is possible that it is just suuuuuuper rare, but that is similar to my assertion that there are no aliens.
> -there could be filters that intelligent species reach (nuclear annihilation, super intelligent AI etc)
Could be. Can't assume AI wouldn't wana build the probes though. The good news is that in the next several hundred years we may know the answer to this. If we can reach multiple planets with the right building blocks for life, and they have no life at all, it will indicate that the great blocker is life starting at all, which would point to few or no aliens.
> -von neumann probes are not an inevitable consequence of aliums. maybe they just don't give a fuck about colonizing space.
I am skeptical that not a single other species would try this out. If nobody else has, it makes me suspect that there just isn't much life. This is a hunch on my part though, I can't back it up.
> -intelligence may just be rare. We may very well be the first in the galaxy (and other galaxies are basically impossible to reach)
This is effectively the same as "there are no aliens". Also, I don't think other galaxies are unreachable. The Andromeda galaxy is 2.5 million light years away, so if some species came about 10 million years ago it wouldn't be unreasonable for their probes to have reached several other galaxies by now.
Isn't there an alpha reaction that could account for this?
RR Lyrae stars pulsate due to the conversion of Helium II to Helium III. The layers get inverted and luminosity changes accordingly.
Which reaction in a F type star could account for 1. the long term trend, and 2. the aperiodic flux?
Are there any known mechanisms for coronal inhibition? Magnetic field line interference aperiodically canceling out radiative intensity?
>True, but it is still billions of years old. If life is common, you would expect a lot of species to have predated us by at least a few hundred thousand years. It is possible that it is just suuuuuuper rare, but that is similar to my assertion that there are no aliens.
Consider the following:
There has been life on earth for 4Billion years, however intelligent life has only arisen recently, we might be on the very early side of a standard normal curve where y is the probability a lifeform will develop intelligence and x is time.
So, if we say statistically life has existed on another planet its pretty likely it still has no intelligent life form.
I dont see any intelligent life on earth besides humans nor is there any record of intelligent life before humans.
A lot of species have predated us by hundreds of thousands of years on earth and never developed intelligence.
There is also the slim chance each time an intelligent life form begins to develop that there is a mass extinction before it industrialises and becomes capable of surviving such an event.
>I am skeptical that not a single other species would try this out
Why would they build huge macroscopic self-propagating probes when they could seed the galaxy with pre-manufactured microprobes from a few carrier vessels in much less time? Shoot out an omnidirectional cloud of mothership drones on galactic escape velocity from your parent system and have them drop daughter probes towards any star within a lightyears range(which can easily be determined with parallax calculations from the mother probes).
That way your sensor bubble is spreading at the speed of the mothership cloud instead of a slow propagation of jump-replicate-jump-replicate.
And would mankind notice a probe the size of a basketball in a cometary orbit?
>tfw ayys are building dyson spheres and colonization star systems while you're busy fapping to 2D girls
Fuck my life.
You're missing the larger question: Why send probes at all, to places you have no intention of ever going?
Space probes from Humans will eventually dwindle down to nothing. Eventually the effort can't be economically justified even with wastrel government programs.
>Are there any known mechanisms for coronal inhibition? Magnetic field line interference aperiodically canceling out radiative intensity?
What exactly are you trying to say? The corona has nothing to do with the visible light from a star.
And here we see the enormous coronal holes which result in dark patches, visibly dimming the sun during their duration. These coronal holes are induced by magnetic loops stretching beyond one solar diameter into space and returning to the brighter spots on the surface.
In these examples, the total luminosity is decreased because the occluded surface is greater than the exposed brighter return surface.
If KIC8462852 had an unusually strong or active magnetic field, the random placement and orientation of such features along the line of sight from Earth could account for the Kepler data. It would not be difficult to model how strong a field would be required to reach 22% dip in total luminosity.
I believe such a hypothesis could even be tested by observation of direct and indirect effects.
>And here we see the enormous coronal holes which result in dark patches, visibly dimming the sun during their duration.
That's an extreme ultraviolet image. Coronal holes weren't known about until the space age because they don't affect visible emission. So they don't explain the Kepler result or the B band data showing diming.
Coronal holes don't obscure the photosphere, they just aren't bright like the rest of the corona in UV and x-rays. We don't see the corona in the visible (because it contributes almost nothing to the total light) so they make no difference.
Coronal holes don't explain it.
This is another visible image from HMI (which has better images because it's actually meant to be a visible instrument). This is again visible continuum light (but in a narrow band) at the same time as your first image. The only difference is that the limb darkening usually seen (e.g. my first image) is divided out.
The coronal hole is again invisible.
So what we have established is that there is an existing mechanism for massively reducing output at some point along the electromagnetic spectrum.
So the now slightly narrower question is can that interference theoretically be moved leftward from extreme UV into Kepler's 400-850nm range, by recourse to any reasonable theoretical mechanism, perhaps belonging to the genus of fusion reaction that happens in RR Lyrae stars.
RR Lyrae are always modeled as nested shells. Why is it impossible to have an internal structure more like a lava lamp? With blobs of ionizing He II random floating around dimming and brightening out of phase with the overall rotation?
>So what we have established is that there is an existing mechanism for massively reducing output
In the corona. The point your missing is that optical emission doesn't come from the corona.
Coronal holes simply aren't the answer.
In astronomy we're observers.
Any hypothesis can be saved by an arbitrary number of additional assumptions. The point is not to guess at an hypothesis and then bludgeon it into the data sized hole.
I was thinking about this, seeing that our radio waves are being blasted out into space, our early TV signals will hit this star system in about 1400 years, leave them another 1400 years to get here, we are going to be eaten
Recent research with meta-materials has found that you can strongly direct the flow of heat in engineered materials. It shouldn't be too hard to make sure waste heat gets pointed towards nothing.
>It's also proven that it's not some science fiction concept someone came up with 60 years ago
Because a Dyson sphere would be the only megastructure that could be built around a star, right?
>black hole orbits star
>sucks in star over time, causing it to dim
>black hole leaves large amounts of gas, dust, and stellar rubble floating around it and its accretion disk as this happens
Yay, I figured it out without "DUR ALIENS DID IT!"
Why don't they use radio? At 1480LY away, they would have had to have stopped using radio before 500AD for us to see no evidence today.
And you can't run a civilization like ours without communication. So, either they stopped using radio to hide, they killed themselves off before 500AD, or they never existed. So even if we see a dyson sphere, it's not evidence that one still exists - maybe a technological singularity destroys civilization.
Unless they use something besides radio waves, this isn't inspiring at all. Quantum entanglement is the key.
When we say that two or more particles are entangled, we mean that, for example, the electric charge of both particles is identical. This also means we can have different types of entanglement - a particle can be electrically entangled to one particle, and color charged to a second. The two particles resonate with one another.
They say that no information can be communicated via entanglement, but if that's so how can the particles resonate with each other? Either something you expect to happen with the particle happens, or it doesn't - 1 or 0. It's exactly like having a rod that conducts a vibration from end A to end B instantaneously.
In other words, if you know what to look for, you have FTL communication. If you don't, it's all just noise. At some point in the past, end A and end B conducted a signal, and now space is no obstacle. We, ourselves, without the code can never discern KIC 8462852's quantum messages - but anyone who got hold of one of the originally entangled particles would forever have one or more 1bit registers.
The flaws of QE communication are what make it so secure, and moreover express the post-temporal nature of quantum theory.
I can't shake off the feeling that physicists are all just bullshitting everyone and it is all a big conspiracy to get academia money while literally doing nothing but get really fucking high and then come up with that kind of shit.
Well, I smoke drugs I bought from the convenience store and come up with the same ideas they do, so I think modern physics is composed of blue-eyed fanatics ready to carry a single banner on 10,000 worlds.
I can confirm the side effects - since beginning my Spice regimen, two people have fought me to the death. One of them explicitly over comments I made pertaining to my intent to create a race of supermen, and also what "certain people" intended do to, quote, "your precious little brown dwarfs."
We may have learned a great deal about our world since the dawn of civilization and a lot more in the last century, but there's still so much more we don't know.
Personally, I hope it is an alien civilization who successfully made a Dyson Sphere, but it's probably some phenomenon we know about already but haven't been able to attribute to this star or another phenomenon we don't know about.
>It would only mean that we're the most GLORIOUS species in the universe, that nobody is advanced as we are, and everything is only there for us to exploit.
That's actually extremely depressing. We live on a globe ruled by people who seem completely uninterested in scientific advancement, where "academic" can mean someone who farted out 200+ pages talking about muh white privilege, and where we have in place an economic, social and political system that simultaneously rewards the idiotic and the ruthless.
I hope aliens exist, so that when they find us, they fucking nuke the shit out of us. Everything after Gauss was a mistake.
They would be sensible enough, if they were just merely looking for life, to broadcast using the primitive methods that we use. Fairly sure any alien species capable of large scale space travel will have found out the property of using electromagnetic waves for communication.
Alternatively, they aren't seeking "life" in general, but intelligent life, and the criteria of intelligent life - they key to entry to the big boy club - is being able to receive and decode their method of communication transmission. If this is true, it means we're currently very fucking stupid and don't deserve to be called intelligent.
What would the actual fucking purpose of human slaves be to a race of creatures who can effortlessly travel across space? I mean, what fucking purpose would a human serve such creatures? Only two possibilities - sex or food .
So if the star has been dimming for a while, maybe what we are seeing is not comets or megastructures but a swarm of ships coming straight towards us very fast (and thus looking bigger and bigger frim here).
Are the tyranids coming, /sci/?
a few thousand years is literally nothing in the evolution of a species. Where will we be in 2000 years time? Still using radio? Or something faster, more accurate and perhaps less traceable?
Because it is 1,480 light years from Earth, friendo. Sending satellites/probes and possibly even humans to the newly discovered planet 9 if it's habitable even, is a lot more feasible than making giant assumptions undoubtedly influenced by science fiction about something that we will never go to.
At this point it's 95% likely to be a natural phenomenon that we've never observed before, but that 5% chance of ayyliens is too tantalising to ignore.
*If* this is a species in the middle of construction of Dyson sphere, it might be the kick in the ass that could motivate mankind to get off its ass and colonize the solar system. We have the potential to make something similar. All of that solar power from photovoltaics made from material mined from Mercury will be more than enough power laser-powered light sails which, in turn, give us access to other star systems and their solar power as well. In fact, *if* KIC 8462852's dimming is the result of an ongoing project to build a Dyson sphere, then the aliens probably has the same plan.
Wasn't this proven to be a star whose poles are closer to the center than the equator, thus had more gravity at the poles, which in turn meant it had a higher surface temperature at the poles and therefore emitted more light there?
Didn't this explain the irregular light?
2000 years ago, we didn't even know radio existed. Also, I don't think technology evolves in a straight line, but rather has valleys and hills where the low hanging fruit is picked.
So, a few thousand years ago, people got hopping on metallurgy and we went into a valley where we stayed for the last 2500 years - then, suddenly we make a whole ton of advances. Now, we're reaching the other side of this hill, where we begin to make use of what we've recently developed.
It's unlikely that we'd see a civilization dimming as it left the radio era because it was so short - and lo, we don't see much evidence for intelligent radio. Either intelligent beings develop something better than radio within a few hundred years of it's discovery and drop it, they kill themselves off before developing radio (Which means we've already gotten further than most,) or we're the only ones stupid enough to use radio.
Or does it actually work like I'm saying, and humanity is just too stupid to put it into practice? The total lack of artificial radio sources says that aliens don't use it. Either they don't exist on a level that allows them to use radio, they don't exist at all, or they use something other than radio.
QE as I describe it provides an air-tight, causality-preserving manner for invisible, secure, instantaneous communication. Sound objectively can travel faster than light - this isn't an open question, but a fact. Since a perfect vacuum doesn't exist, there's always something to conduct the sound, and the lower the density the faster the speed.
>Or does it actually work like I'm saying, and humanity is just too stupid to put it into practice?
No like it's physically impossible for it to actually transfer data. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean other people don't.
>QE as I describe it provides an air-tight, causality-preserving
Nothing transferring information faster than light preserves causality. Either nothing can travel FTL, or there is no causality. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
>Sound objectively can travel faster than light - this isn't an open question, but a fact.
Oh never mind you're just trolling.
Yes - light. Because of their drastically smaller wavelength, optical beams can be focused much more tightly and than radio waves can, dramatically improving the communications range for a given power. (There is no radio antenna in the world that can even touch the gain of a ten-meter optical telescope). You do have to contend with dramatically higher noise temperatures (visible photons are so much more energetic that at low beam intensities the signal breaks down into individual photons pinging on the detector like raindrops, making it much harder to pick out a coherent signal), but it's a sensible tradeoff to make.
There very little in the way of optical SETI going on, in part because the level of focus means we have little chance of intercepting a signal unless we happen to be right in the way of the beam.
Read the original paper:
It goes over a very wide array of potential explanations for the observations, and why they don't work. Basically, if it was a recent catastrophic event or major collision, there wouldn't just be clumps big enough to produce the occlusions - there would necessarily be a big cloud of smaller dust as well, which would produce a distinct infrared signature that KIC 8462852 does not have.
Also, just a clarification: I'm still in the "It's probably not aliens" camp. Right now, I'd put 95-99% confidence on the KIC 8462852 observations being some other phenomenon.
But I do think it's important to know the hypotheses that have already been rejected, and why, before you start saying how obviously stupid the megastructure hypothesis is because it must be X, where X is already contraindicated by the data.
(By the way, it has *not* been shown that the occluding body/bodies, if there are any, are not heated up by the star. Kepler's instruments don't go anywhere near deep enough into the infrared to get that data - the lack of an infrared excess was established by a separate observation by the WISE telescope versus models of how much infrared the star should be emitting. If the occlusion is caused only by solid objects with no associated debris, dust, or gas clouds, infrared anomalies would only be observed during transit. Since the infrared data was not collected during a known transit, we can't make any categorical statement that the occluders aren't warm.)
>No like it's physically impossible for it to actually transfer data
A Qbit is in every state at once. They talk about 'fixing' Qbits into one state or another, but they never actually take any permanent state. In a way, a Qbit is imaginary - the observer makes it as they observe it.
The bigger implication of QE is that time doesn't exist. All states that a particle will ever be in exist at the same time. You can see whatever state you want without violating causality because causality is set in stone - superdeterminism.
Two observers looking into their quantum crystal balls without any previously agreed upon state to observe as a 1-0 register can never communicate - but if you both agree that if a particle is in state 1 the bit says 'Yes' and if a particle is in state 2 the bit says 'No,' lo and behold you'll find that you both observe the same state when later you meet up and compare notes.
>Nothing transferring information faster than light preserves causality
Superdeterminism preserves causality by positing a non-local variable which tells both entangled particles what state to show when. By preserving causality in this way, the theoretical argument against QE communication no longer applies.
>Oh never mind you're just trolling
>Sound beyond the speed of light: Measurement of negative group velocity in an acoustic loop filter
As far as this debate is concerned, group velocity is the speed at which two particles vibrate together. In FTL debates, the FTL rod is tossed out as a viable means of instant communication because there supposedly is no perfectly ridged rod. Yet, for sound to travel at the observed FTL speeds, the information that the particle on end A has vibrated has to be conducted to end B FTL.
Superdeterminism explains why end B knows that end A has been vibrated.
>What if we build that enormous telescope and find out they are coming for us?
They likely have already sent out self replicating nanobots to convert all matter into computronium by now.
Sagan even said that an intelligent civilization would realize that von veunmann probes would replicate out of control/eat all the mass in the universe and so wouldnt even make them in the first place, probably opting to destroy any they encounter.
They are free from the outdated morality of our backwards, primitive society (pic related)
They also commune with each others in planet-wide pansexual orgies because...enlightenment.
>No results for Fermilab search that already detected 17 Dyson Sphere candidates
>> -von neumann probes are not an inevitable consequence of aliums. maybe they just don't give a fuck about colonizing space.
>I am skeptical that not a single other species would try this out. If nobody else has, it makes me suspect that there just isn't much life. This is a hunch on my part though, I can't back it up.
1.It makes no sense to colonize all space. Your needs are not that great as space faring civilization and resources of just couple of systems are enormous.
2.If first civilization in existence was conservative and in support of preventing von neumann probes colonizing all space it could have enacted measures to stop them once they appear.
>If first civilization in existence was conservative and in support of preventing von neumann probes colonizing all space it could have enacted measures to stop them once they appear.
Hey that's actually a pretty good theory. Would make sense, even with dyson spheres - relating to the theory that a stage III civ would have to dyson up a whole galaxy, which I imagine would not be that good for anyone else living in the same galaxy
It is not a dyson sphere, assuming it's artificial. A Dyson sphere is a massive habitat for biological creatures which replicates planetary conditions within.
Any species advanced enough to build such a thing would have long since also developed the tech necessary to remake their bodies however they pleased, and machines endure the harsh conditions of space far more efficiently than biologicals.
Machines do not need Dyson spheres because they do not need planet-like conditions to survive. They can live perfectly comfortably in radiation blasted vacuum.
However, if you are a machine, your consciousness is basically software. So you could still build something like a megascale space habitat, it would just be a fuckhuge computer for supporting all sorts of virtual environments:
>All we need, at that point, is a Golden God-Emperor.
I only make statements like this when I have lost the argument and I want to make the other person angry, even through they're right.
This is a habit I've been trying to stop sine I was in the 5th grade
>Any species advanced enough to build such a thing would have long since also developed the tech necessary to remake their bodies however they pleased, and machines endure the harsh conditions of space far more efficiently than biologicals.
Unless this is a vanity project for them or they are creating a Dyson swarm with multiple biospheres to conserve, observe, experiment.
Orion drive can reach 5% of light speed, it is simply too slow for human biological life span to reach this star(it is ok for colonizing nearby 10 light year sphere of stars though, and by colonizing I mean O'Neill habitats and asteroid habitats, not Earthlike planets).
I think fusion drives are 10% C which is still too little.
You would need something reaching 90% light speed and post-biological. Small too, as potential impacts at this speed are absolutely lethal.
>Any species advanced enough to build such a thing would have long since also developed the tech necessary to remake their bodies however they pleased
Would they? The first principles of biology are incredibly low level, and the systems built up from them are tremendously, hideously complex.
it'll eventually be shown to be either an error in the data or some other natural phenomenon.
aliens with human centric properties of intelligence and form are astronomically improbable.
we can continue to ask the big questions but the truth is whatever is out there evolves in it's own beaker of a microcosm and dies out in a blink of the cosmic eye.
humans will die out and space travel is an impossibility for organic creatures.
>an error in the data or some other natural phenomenon
>aliens with human centric properties of intelligence and form are astronomically improbable
>whatever is out there evolves in it's own beaker of a microcosm and dies out in a blink of the cosmic eye
>humans will die out and space travel is an impossibility
Just passing through. Thought I'd tell you guys that Cygnus has been the center of some ancient mystery religions and there are numerous ancient structures which are aligned to cygnus. Not much is known about the significance of cygnus in the ancient world. There are a couple aaayyy lmao books on it however.
>Machines do not need Dyson spheres because they do not need planet-like conditions to survive. They can live perfectly comfortably in radiation blasted vacuum.
Until they overheat from being in a vacuum and get fried from radiation.
if i drink this bottle of pee pee at this side of the universe another bottle off pee pee will be drunk somewhere else
And until they run out of power. A Dyson sphere uses all of that fusion energy put out by the parent star, which leaves the fissionable and fusionable material available for power during interstellar journeys.
What if these aliens are furries? Like, actual, factual furries?!