Vaccines

Nothing can convince her. Except maybe if her kid got measles and died or something.

Why is she against vaccines? Does she believe them to be ineffective? Or harmful? And in what way?

>>7774494
She thinks that
1: a vaccine shouldn't be needed every year against the 'same' viruses
2:the body can fight viruses naturally

>>7774508

Explain to her how antigenic shift and antigenic drift work in the Flu.

>>7774509
Another argument is that "the amount of polio cases was reduced because sanitation was invented"

>>7774508
>the body can fight viruses naturally

Just drop her. Let her see her kid slowly die. But you know, she could be really lucky and never have that happen.

If you still care about her then just tell her to read about the immune system and then to read on what exactly do viruses do completely go through the immune system or go so fast that the immune system never really catches up, followed with the effects all of that shit will then have on her baby.

If after all of that she is still convinced the body can just handle it then you can confirm that she has no soul and just walk away. At this point, you'd be better off by kidnapping her child and sending it over to ISIS. They'd take better care of him anyways.

>>7774520

Explain to her that polio cases actually increased because of sanitation. You see, in early times, people were constantly exposed to polio, so a mother would be constantly raising antibodies against it which are transmitted to the baby in her breast milk. That way the baby would have help to deal with infection while he/she developed immunological memory during his or her first exposure, which would usually be during infancy because polio was more common. After sanitation improved, polio became more rare, so children would be exposed to it during childhood instead of early infancy. In this scenario, the child has no maternal breastmilk IGA antibodies and suffers a more severe infection.

>>7774529
I think that's extreme. My parents are both doctors and they elected to never vaccinate me as a child. I never get sick.

>>7774483
wait. if the antibodies are created when the virus enters the body, why do you need to put viruses in the first place ? Do the antibodies stay in the body indefinitely ?

>>7774547

until you die that would be.

>>7774547
Yes, they do. And vaccines make sure that the antibodies are there when you encounter the real virus, preventing you from getting infected.

>>7774546
>I don't wear a seat belt and never got in a car accident

>>7774560
>>7774558
wow. didn't know they stayed that long. Then why don't we get vaccinated for everything out there ?

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>>7774546
Same here.
But lots of fully vaccinated minds in this thread, totally immune to reality. They will be on drugs for the rest of their lives.

>>7774567
1. Some viruses(most viruses perhaps) continuously mutate so that the antibodies are no longer effective against the new strains of viruses. That requires development of new vaccines all the time.
2. Some vaccines against some diseases don't seem to be very effective. An example would be tuberculosis.
3. Some diseases are so harmless that vaccination is unnecessary(chicken pox for example).

I'm sure there are more reasons.

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>>7774591
Why can't we already build nanomachines that trace the chemical signals of these viruses and rip their shit apart ? That would truly be the ultimate weapon against any disease.

>>7774607

We already do.

They're called NK cells.

>>7774609
They only slow down tumors and reduce their damage ? Thats pitiful really. I'm talking about a nano machine that will physically rape the tiny shit that comes into our body.

>>7774609
>>7774636
NK cells recognize cells that are infected (lack the MHC class 1 on the surface) and kill them.

Nano machines would be awesome, but we are technologically not there yet...

>>7774640
Another related question. In the case of hypothetically having these nano-machines, how can we ensure that our auto-immune system won't try to fight them due to seeing them as intruders ?

>>7774636

>I know nothing about immunology.txt

>>7774657
i dont. thats why im asking

>>7774649
They would have to be build by a material that our immune system cannot attack(like a metal). Or we could coat them with proteins that we have naturally in the body(like collagen), thus they will not recognize the robots as intruders(interestingly, a strategy used by many amebic parasites)

>>7774660
oh. why don't our immune system attack metal ? would it work if you just build it out of steel ? And can't you use something like carbon-fiber that is quite strong but lighter and a bit flexible ?

>>7774667
Our immune system is just designed to attack proteins, carbohydrates, etc, that occur in natural infectious agents. There has never been a reason to evolve an immune response to metals etc because they don't occur in bacteria and viruses. Carbon-fiber would probably work just as well.

>>7774687
Thats very nice to hear :^) I asked that coz I remember people getting immuno-suppressors after getting piercings and such to stop the body from attacking the foreign object that penetrated the body.

>>7774688
That sounds weird. If anything, immunosuppression in such a situation would only increase the risk of infection.

>>7774694
Yeah, I might be remembering it wrong and they might have had anti-bacterials to avoid getting wound infections.

>>7774509
>>7774520
>>7774537
>>7774566
These don't work. you don't convince an anti-vaxer with reason, if they were susceptible to that they would vaccinate. A study I don't feel like citing actually proved the superior method to convincing them is by playing on their emotions and heartstrings, show them videos of babies dying of preventable illnesses like pertussis because they weren't vaccinated. In fact, using science and big words they can't understand makes them LESS likely to vaccinate.

>>7774483
I doubt anyone can give you a magic pill to convince your relative, but the simplest argument to make might be as such:

"If vaccines are a a conspiracy then you'll waste money/maybe give your children autism/whatever she believes.

If vaccines are not a conspiracy then then there is a good chance for her children to get diseases which can either kill or cirpple them for life."

It's like playing Russian roulette for a dollar. Even if the chamber wasn't loaded, all I've won is a dollar and at the risk of 1/6 chance of killing myself.

>>7774711
As long as you don't include thimerosal, I don't see why they wouldn't wanna get vaccines.

They have a belief which is not based on facts or repeated independent research. You could cite the whole world, they would not listen. Muh autism... and so on. Really, what can convince them is a deadly outbreak or something that makes their kids cripples.
There is this new virus that is spreading in South America and it might has the ability to deform the skulls of fetuses so they'll be born as retards.
If this turns out to be true imagine the pain of all anti-vaccine future mothers.

>>7774762
> preventing genetic bone diseases with vaccines
sure is biology in here

Yeah, her 'supporting' argument was
muh nutrition specialists
Muh 'doctors'

I figure someone who specialized in viruses could personally provide a counter

>>7774657
You could spoon feed him instead of acting like scum.

>>7774792
No. I've got a mentally ill and paranoid mother - logic never works. You'll be able to talk to them until you're blue in the face and the only thing it'll do is make them aggrivated (which does nothing but reaffirm their beliefs)

You can't win with logic, anon. You need to win with emotion.

Ask her if her children's lives mean that little to her. That she'd rather let there be a chance they could die or be disfigured horribly than let there be a .05% of them having autism. Ask her if she really thinks her children are better off dead than with a mental illness.

You've gotta really drive the shame in, hard as possible. She cares more about her kid's potential autism than their lives. Make her feel disgusting about it. What she's doing is inhuman.

It'll make her think about the actual human cost of not vaccinating her children. We're so far divested from death in our first world lives that it's probably an abstract concept for her, that her children could potentially die from her decisions. You need to drive it home and shame her in action.

>>7774483
If humans were able to survive before with worse and more extreme diseases without vaccines, her children can handle a fucking flu virus. I've never been vaccinated for flu in my life and did I ever catch it during this so-called "flu season"? No.

>>7774907
in Germany only old people are geting vaccination for flu

>>7774907
Brace yourself for "muh h-herd immunity!"
>muh collectivism!