>>26517447 That's very typical in live action too.
Something anime does much better than American movies and shows is that characters almost never have their finger on the trigger when they aren't supposed to, even when they're handling airsoft or water guns.
>>26517400 Yuyushiki is about a traumatized girl whose friends died and she's hallucinating them, you think there are 3 girls when in fact she's just waving around 2 hand puppets and talking to herself.
>>26517570 If we define a pleb as the common person watching anime, then a pleb is someone who hates almost everything and spends 95% of their time complaining and reciting memes and 5% watching anime.
>Way too fast paced story progression that is confusing and hard to keep up with >Extremely slow story progression, a dozen episodes or more are dedicated to a single character/turn of events and most of it is basically filler shit
>>26517691 People who pretend their prefered genre of anime is more mature and artistic than another genre of anime are cringeworthy shitheads who should try reading a book if they want to talk about culture.
I only really like Neon Genesis Evangelion and FMA: Brotherhood, though Evangelion is by far my favorite of the two. How much of a pleb am I? Also watch a bit of Black Lagoon and Tenchi Muyo whenever I see it.
>>26518018 Literature has establishment support and is taken seriously by society. Anime is considered the lowest of the low. So anyone who wants to roleplay as an intellectual should be involved with literature (or at least cinema), not anime.
>>26518097 How are those things mutually exclusive? Anyone with interest in visual media (art, film, and animation) will eventually learn about Japanese animation, and when they encounter it, they ought to have license to discern worthwhile works in the medium from worthless garbage.
>>26518192 >they ought to have license to discern worthwhile works in the medium from worthless garbage. Which will almost certainly involve pretentious posturing that would be better applied to literature and cinema instead. No matter how much of an anime "patrician" you pretend to be, people are still going to look down on you for associating yourself with anime.
>>26518169 Not him, and I like anime as well, but you would have to be absolutely retarded to claim that anything save for a few series is anything but absolute shit.
The only people who unironically consider themselves superior for preferring a certain genre of anime over another are those who have had absolutely zero exposure to actual art. Again, not saying that anime is bad (I watch a lot of anime), but don't try to claim that anything but a few series are "artistic".
>>26518245 >you would have to be absolutely retarded to claim that anything save for a few series is anything but absolute shit. >Again, not saying that anime is bad (I watch a lot of anime), but don't try to claim that anything but a few series are "artistic". What makes you think that a show can only be "shit" or "artistic"?
That doesn't mean you can't enjoy it ("real" art is too stuffy and pretentious anyways), but trying to feel superior over "taste" in something like anime just makes you come off as a complete tool, that's all.
>>26518241 So you're just reiterating your prior point? Anime is all shit so it's not worth trying to distinguish anything good from anything bad? I can understand that it makes me look like a blowhard low-hanging-fruit faggot deriding stuff that was never meant to be "taken seriously", but why deny the license to contrast it with stuff in the medium that's more ambitious?
>associating with anime
According to this logic, if someone can judge the quality of a French animation by virtue of being trained in visual media, it entails that they are "associated with" French animation.
>>26518424 >bait Yes, anything you don't like is b8.
Come back when you're old enough to post here. >>26518449 I'm 28. >>26518476 It's exactly that, though. It's sardonic satire that Redditors don't understand because NGE is the oldest series they've seen.
>>26518515 If you had explained what is satirical about it, then it wouldn't be bait. We get that it is, as the other guy said, a deconstruction of the genre, but, by that logic, just about anything can be a satire.
See, if you'd had seen anything made beforehand, you'd know that this sort of thing is already an established trope.
It's a massive example of satire. I don't think you've actually seen it or know what satire is if you don't get that.
Like, I can't even explain why it is satire because it is blatant that it is the oldest series you've seen. I mean, damn; I only saw a handful beforehand back in 2001 but even I saw how it was a satire.
>protagonist is extremely bossy, constantly tries to get everyone to act exactly like he wants them to, gets mad when they do anything even remotely unusual Kanon, White Album 2, looking at you. Worst protagonists.
>>26518488 My apologies, I made that assumption because it was the most likely premise which would make your argument coherent.
In that case, let me say that you haven't established any connection between distinguishing good from bad in a medium and "pretentious posturing", nor have you defined it, nor have you shown why it is inferior to mere enjoyment. Care to elaborate?
>>26518648 The trope is present because it is commonplace in the mecha genre, but it is used to an effect that departs significantly from the traditional mecha genre.
This is literally the definition of a deconstruction. NGE is a by-the-book genre deconstruction. A satire is a deconstruction that includes some particular elements of comedy, which NGE doesn't fully indulge.
I get the feeling that you are underage, because you are the only one here trying to derail the topic by making offhand comments about age.
>>26518648 In which pre-evangelion series does this take place? I haven't watched a lot of old series but i've watched a few, and i don't remember any series where it happened. Not even in Tenchi Muyou, which is a fanservice series.
>>26518675 Golly gee! How'd ya finger that one out? >>26518704 See, more ignorance of the series. >omg ur underage Projecting won't save you. Please stop regurgitating what you read on Wikipedia and actually defend yourself. I cannot do the same because it is blatant that you have no interest in the genre whatsoever.
It actually may as well be a comedy series, but you don't understand that because you're Straight Outta Reddit and don't understand the genre one bit. >>26518715 literally asking to be spoonfed.
>MC is an autistic fuck who can't handle anything sexual without sperging out and the girl having a huge overreaction I understand that the majority of your viewers can relate to the MC, but c'mon you can do way better than that.
>>26518711 Okay, that's fine. I think everyone can judge good from bad and have opinions about shows -- as everyone does -- without defaulting to "pretentious snob". And I don't see why it's such a bad thing that there might be someone out there who knows a thing or two about film making relatively informed opinions about all this bullshit (not me, by the way). But fine. I get it.
>>26518789 Yes, that's how it works. Go watch something made before it and maybe you'll look back on this day with embarrassment. >>26518818 >>26518840 OMG AUTIST >>26518843 You haven't seen anything made before it, I cannot elaborate because you are entirely ignorant. >>26518853 Because it is blatant that he is very young by his reluctance to watch anything 'old and outdated'.
>>26519020 I can definitely the magma diver episode being satire (muh expansion), the power outage one (Fuyutsuki is t. Foreshadower), and a few others, but every single one?
And the characteristics of a lot of the characters are so specific that, even if they were amalgamations of multiple characters, it created such a hybrid that there is originality there. Not to mention that many parts reference things WAY older than Anime, or even the Japanese culture (e.g. Shinji's Oedipus Complex).
>>26519168 And, here, we must get into what makes an episode a satire. Episode 10 is obviously satire, and there are probably satirical elements in every episode, I will concede that from the many I can think of; however, I would like to see you be able to justify the entire plot and the entirety of every single episode being satirical in-nature.
it's like going onto a car forum and talking about how much you hate cars. somebody posts a picture of a car and you sperg out asking them why they like cars and they shouldn't feel smug just because they own a car.
from an outsiders perspective, you are literally a fucking autist
It's the other way around, by the way. The default position is that most anime, including moeshit, isn't worthy of being called "art" and that only stuff in the vein of Ghibli films is salvageable from the medium.
>>26519512 Yes, that is the default position. To argue otherwise requires a burden of proof. You have to convince someone Little Girl Panty Cute Cute 2 is good, you don't generally need to convince someone of a Ghibli film.
>>26520023 >if it's animation, it's for children You are not nearly as smart as you think you are. But you are at least very pretentious. Why should watching Blade Runner be mutually exclusive with watching, say, Koukaku no Pandora? You just want social validation by associating yourself with things that are considered (or you think are considered) "sophisticated" and "intellectual." It doesn't even matter if you've actually watched Blade Runner, it's enough that you associate yourself with it.
>>26520313 >How am I being pretentious? By thinking that the only acceptable entertainment is the kind that makes you look good in front of others.
>considering all you watch is little girls screaming I don't watch any such thing, and I never said anything about what I watch or don't watch aside from anime. All you're doing here is showing you don't have the slightest comprehension of what you're talking about and are only repeating memes.
>>26520334 Pandering theory states that animators, manga artists, light novel writers and game designers don't make things because they like them, but because they expect otaku to buy them or because they have somehow been forced into doing things that otaku like. And it just so happens, every single time, that all the things they supposedly are "pandering" with are exactly the same things that casual Western viewers hate. Nobody has ever accused mecha or cyberpunk anime of pandering to anyone...
Pandering theory supposes that creators and otaku are two completely separate, distinct groups of people with no overlap, which is completely false.
>>26520516 Blade Runner is considered an influential classic. It's something you can namedrop to let people know that you're a man of sophistication, unlike those terrible anime plebs who don't know anything.
>>26520672 So you're saying you're unable or unwilling to enjoy different things for different reasons, and instead want to construct an absolute hierarchy of quality for every movie and television show in existence. By the way, why bother watching Blade Runner when there's surely some other movie that's even better? And why bother watching THAT movie when it's overshadowed by yet another movie?
>>26520749 Since you have already made it clear that you think it is impossible, you will dismiss any recommendation I could possibly make. I don't make absolute judgement of genre being better or worse than others, but I try to partake in all of them and judge them within the context of their genre.
What you are doing is the equivalent of going on a Youtube comment section of a recording of Lou Reed and saying "What happened to REAL music?!"
Whenever an anime has a very limited soundtrack, for example, when there is one 'sad' song, one 'action' song, one 'slice of life' song, etcetera. It really becomes noticeable when an anime stretches it's limited soundtrack over multiple seasons.
>>26520455 That's a pretty narrow definition, and a strictly negative one. Why is it not "pandering" if the artist likes whatever it is that's being depicted, but still deliberately expects the material to appeal to a certain crowd? Liberal directors are said to make films "pandering" to liberal sensibilities, etc.
But even in your excessively strict concept, there are (admittedly anecdotal) counterexamples.
>(on watamote:) We often have a talk that "What types of girls are there in popular manga?" and we predict that "Which type of girls would be popular next?" In the meantime, we made up a character and she suited the theme.
>>26520487 Definitely watch it sometime if you're getting a kick out of Kurosawa. But if you watched Kagemusha recently (within the past few months), I'd hold it for a while. To my memory, the movies resemble each other in a lot of ways; you might risk getting "burnt out" on the aesthetic if Kagemusha is still fresh in your memory.
>>26520974 Anime will be on every board, forever, and there is literally nothing you can do about it. In the end, there are only two outcomes for you:
a. Get sick of seeing anime posted everywhere and actually fuck off back to r*ddit like you've been told to multiple times, or: b. Post on this website forever, tolerating all of the anime you've willingly made yourself sift through while looking for epic frog memes, like the pathetic cuckold r*dditor you are.
>>26521132 I mean to say that it centers on hypothetical "otaku-proof" content that is generally viewed negatively or considered "cheap". Of course pandering itself, as a practice, has a negative connotation. In common use, however, fairly neutral (or at worst partisan) things like environmentalism or nationalism can be pandered.
Subs that are dumbed down and dont actually match the dialougue. I know enough Japanese to understand the correct use of words and phrashing when translated and its just annoying to watch when they dont match up. Really triggers my autism.
>MC is an average, boring, even underwhelming dude for years >suddenly one event happens which involves a girl >more girls are suddenly included due to chain event and they're all thirsty for the dudes dick where they compete >only one other male character whos his friend and is pretty cool in comparison >basically cucked because same girls treat him like shit or just ignore him I can't enjoy that at all, senpai
>tfw I prefer watching dub >even better when it has that "so bad it's good" quality about it >sometimes I watch dub, with subtitles just so I can keep the volume low (and/or talk over it) and still follow along.
>>26521417 Yeah. The girl has to be cute and the guy has to be good looking or have a special quality or personality. Not average and boring. It just isnt fun or entertaining that way. I cant get into it
>>26521369 Here's a translated post from a Japanese person.
>I wonder why they love watamote so much. Nerds who read Japanese manga are sympathizing with Mokocchi?
I don't get why it's necessary that the author dislikes the content. Americans would point to something like The Birth of a Nation and say it's pandering to racists without giving a second thought to it being born of some cognitive dissonance or weird manipulative ploy. In the same way, I think most people understand manga artists like cute girls and are not mistaken in identifying content deliberately made to pander towards those with similar tastes. They also wouldn't be mistaken in thinking that sometimes the cuteness is exaggerated or emphasized for mass appeal or for effect. That's not something unique to Japan. That's business.
>>26521522 I'd have no problem if it was one girl who had a crush, but when you've got the whole female cast dripping for a guy who is bland as bread in all aspects, its hard to get into. Shit, even fantasy with dragons, magic and shit is more believable at that point.
>>26521490 Nobody has to. China throws money at animation studios to spite Japan, and if you make it cheap enough it's impossible to not make a profit. That's why there's all those shitty Canadian cartoons made in Adobe Flash.
>>26516540 >I'm eons old immortal god trapped into a body of little girl >who wields an oversized hunk of metal like it was as light as a feather >I slaughter dozens upon dozens of human bowling pins >While giggling in a voice that isn't eerie as it's supposed to be, but just plain cringe inducing
>>26521902 >That's a post from a Japanese person What is it supposed to prove?
>isn't "otaku culture" marginal in Japan itself? Where's the cultural imperialism here? It's cultural imperialism to present "otaku" things as bad and wrong and demand them to be replaced with things that conform to Western norms.
>>26521986 >It's cultural imperialism to present "otaku" things as bad and wrong and demand them to be replaced with things that conform to Western norms.
Within Japan? Are you really going to try and tell me otakus aren't largely resented by the greater Japanese public?
Back to the "pandering" point, here's some shit from the Danganronpa dev team:
>We figured that, if we make this game and market it as a visual novel, it's probably not going to do very well. In order to avoid that problem, we decided to add a lot of gameplay elements in order to make it more appealing--to draw that distinction between adventure games and visual novels. Actually, when we were developing the game, when we started to incorporate the interactive elements, many times, the staff would say, "Do we really need this? Why don't we just tell the story as it is?"
Those incorruptible Japs man, never folding to external pressures, never compromising their artistic vision to those damn "gamers"! You're fucking deluded.
>>26522366 >Within Japan? No? I am obviously talking about Westerners.
>Are you really going to try and tell me otakus aren't largely resented by the greater Japanese public? Yes because that's outdated information. And what does it even have to do with what we're talking about?
>Back to the "pandering" point, here's some shit from the Danganronpa dev team: Doesn't have anything to do with pandering.
>Those incorruptible Japs man, never folding to external pressures, never compromising their artistic vision to those damn "gamers"! You're fucking deluded. I never said Japanese creators are not susceptible to any pressure. I never said Japanese creators don't take into account commercialization and market conditions. I never said anything about gamers.
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