>>26370672 As an english speaker you will not have to learn any new vowels or consontants in order to learn japanese, which in my opinion eliminates one of the hardest parts about a new language. This also means it's easier to self-study the language since you don't need a teacher to correct your pronounciations.
Do you realize that not a single language in the world has lots of words that only have a single meaning right? The real problem in Japanese is how many words sound similiar and how the most common words tend to have the most meanings.
i gave it a try once and got discouraged straight away. it wasn't even the gorillion characters that got to me, but that the grammar was from fucking space. i'm studying arabic and it's pretty weird but still easier than japanese
>>26370713 Fuck the non-ascii text rule. tsu, ra, ri, ru, re, ro, and n are not found in English. What most textbooks don't tell you, especially the ones geared toward English speaker, is there are inflections in Japanese ame(rain) and ame(candy) actually do have different pronunciations. The hardest part of Japanese is easily the grammar.
I honestly don't know what to learn desu burger that had spanish shoved down my throat from an early age so I hate it french sounds pretty neat, so does german japanese and chinese just seem like they take forever to learn and no one around me speaks it
>>26371024 The hardest thing about Japanese for me is not anything that you read, write, or say. It's what you don't say. Japanese is a very context-heavy language where you leave a lot of details unsaid that you would mention in other languages, and have to understand the full meaning from the context.
That pretty much means you need to understand Japanese culture as well to really grasp the language.
It's on my todo list, for the weeb reasons everyone listed. But first I have to finish learning Quenya and Chinese.
>>26371065 > I honestly don't know what to learn desu
Do you want something useful or just something cool? I picked Chinese because coming world language, and elvish is just cool on its own. Gonna write that shit on my future house's doors made of stone, in a paint that will glow in moonlight.
We had an exchange student from Japan once. He was ~16. I had a page which had "my hovercraft is full of eels" written on it in numerous languages. He looked at it, and had no clue what the hovercraft was full of. Once I looked it up in the dictionary and we could get it in kana he knew immediately what it meant.
In what shit tier language can you not read words phonetically? I'd bet that most people here could read the word "eel" in english from the age of six. Even if you were fucking stupid.
>>26372854 >In what shit tier language can you not read words phonetically? English. It's a shit tier language. Writing and pronunciation are totally disconnected from each other. That's why Americans are notoriously bad at spelling and grammar. People who learned English as a second/later language have a far better command of spelling and grammar.
>>26372953 >writing and pronunciation are totally disconnected from each other. Words are written as groups of letters that form syllables, rather than letters making discrete sounds like in a real phonetic language. It's still one hundred times easier than an iconographic language. There is also room for spelling reform, but it's consistant enough that most words can be read without familiarity. Only a fool, foreigner or a child would have trouble spelling words which they have not encountered.
>>26373164 english spelling rules are completely arbitrary in relation to current pronunciation, there are historical reasons for why english's spelling is so fucked up, mainly being that the printing press came out as english was undergoing a vowel shift for instance: english has a stress system wherein unstressed vowels are reduced to a schwa but this is completely not reflected in the spelling and in many cases a single set of letters can produce multiple different sounds i.e. rough plough cough
the example i like to use is "woman" and "women." not only does the alteration of the second vowel arbitrarily change the pronunciation of the first vowel, it changes it in a way that no other instance of that vowel goes through. in a few places, english gets really close to being an analytic language.
>>26373283 >Japanese is a totally phonetic language with 100% writing <-> pronouncing mapping. But this is completely wrong since hundreds of kanji have the same pronounciation. There's over thousands of kanjis but only 20 something sounds. Korean alphabet is entirely phonetic I think. Arabic and Hebrew are also phonetic if you write out vowel marks.
>>26373335 You don't need kanji to write things, everything can be done with hiragana. But it's much more practical to read and write using kanji because it's much easier to quickly discern the meaning of words.
>>26373382 It's a complete 100% mapping when using hiragana. Kanji is a different story, it's used to make writing more practical. Pretty much any language, including English, has multiple meanings for the same word/pronunciation. Japanese is no different.
>>26373463 >I's a complete 100% mapping when using hiragana So? English has many phonetic systems aswell.
>Kanji is a different story, it's used to make writing more practical. Kanji(well the chinese originals) were never used to make things more practical, it was to concentrate the ability to read to a few select people. Alphabets are much more practical in every sense.
>>26373451 >Implying there aren't people who can't read or write worth a shit in every country >Implying that there aren't millions of native English speakers who struggle to differentiate your from you're, or spell words with I and E in them
>>26373463 It's not actually 100% mapping. There's some weird stuff with their n character sometimes making the preceding vowel nasal and i and u sounds being occasionally devoiced e in very rare cases, never in controlled pronunciation, but this is nitpicking. 95% is a conservative estimate.
>>26373673 It would be more practical if Japanese didn't have infinity bazillion homophones which only kanji and barely noticeable pitch shifts distinguish between. But... since Japanese does have infinity bazillion homophones....
>>26373731 phonetic alphabets are easier to learn and quicker to decipher than kanji the only benefit kanji has is it looks cool and takes up less space when printed in terms of readability and practical use, alphabets win every time
>>26373880 >>26373858 Ichigo of-fucking-course. Not that I really need the language but I should have known this basic kanji fuck me. I would have known many variations of it like: lake, swamp, mother, ocean etc. I should have known.
>>26374060 >Is it because of like IMEs and computers meaning they never need to write them? Yeah I think that's what he said in the vid, they are used to typing it and the "auto" feature completes the kanji for them, as opposed to having them write it out by hand from memory all the time.
>>26374095 Bruh its been like a year since I took one semester of japanese. I can't read words I can barely recognize some in anime. I just remember hiragana and like 1/4th of katakana. Ore wa is referring to yourself As far as I know oishi desu ka is asking if something is delicious, thought it was spelt oishii. Never heard hatsuon.
>>26374222 >I bet you don't know every single word in english too. The words in the vid were extremely basic and in everyday use. Of course I don't know every single word, but I feel pretty confident that if you ask me to spell "battle" I will not write asdijlngasdf(ie complete gibberish not even remotely close to the original word, like in the video).
>>26373936 it makes more sense to me in every way. VSO still makes more sense to me than SOV. the lack of vowel markers is also annoying, but that's orthography, not grammar. and don't get me started on consonant-based vowel pharyngealization senpai
>>26374352 I didn't quite hear the t in tsu. You might have over pronounced fu. Ra ri ru re ro are rolled and I couldn't tell through that recording how well you did it. Wo is pronounced the same as o mostly.
Were you just reading my list or have you taken any lessons at all? Cause an actual japanese speaker would be able to tell better.
Also the grammar in this post is wrong if I remember correctly.
Yes anon(honorific denoting seniority) my question word good pronunciation is what you're literally saying but I'm sure theres a much better way to say it. From what I learned your name goes first and i generally omitted due to context, and the verb goes last with ka if its a question sentence. I'm not enough of a linguist but I guess you used a sentence fragment and I am not good enough to judge your grammar.
>listen to idolmaster music a lot >thought it would be nice to learn japanese because of it >grew into strong liking of the language because it sounds beautiful + nice looking alphabet + 2dqt >start learning >give up a few weeks into it because I do literally fucking nothing with moonrunes besides idolmaster music >few weeks later get the urge to start again >have repeated this cycle 6 or 7 times
I want to learn the language, but I have zero fucking use for it. I don't see the point of spending 4 years of torture on anki if I will never even use the language so I keep giving up
>>26374582 Well it's better than most japlets, I'll give you that. Try read some novels next, once you get used to the grammatical structure and vocab in those you'll be really starting to get good >>26374603 I don't pay any money, I get paid to speak it given that I live in Japan
>>26374650 >Could you spell that shit? For the third fucking time now, the words in the video were basic shit like "battle", which can be found in every newspaper multiple times. How fucking often do you see the word iridocyclitis in a newspaper article?`If you don't understand the difference then you're retarded.
>>26374691 You can't say nando to just mean many, japlet. You also can't just shove raw a noun in front of another and expect it to make sense. You also don't have a verb in your sentence, which by definition makes it incorrect in Japanese
>>26374633 I took a class. I haven't heard of nama sensei, but i think anything is better than me trying to correct in text a vocaroo file of pronunciation. Even if I'm a senpai it doesn't mean I'm qualified to teach anything.
>>26374650 >Could you spell that shit? A. How often in one's life do they come across that word? B. Most people would get close enough that it could be read with context. The kanji's drawn by people in the video were complete gibberish.
>>26374716 By the way, I forgot to mention it but the word iridocyclitis is spelled just like how it sounds, so I think I would've been able to spell it actually, and I'm not even a native english speaker.
>>26374648 Look you made the right choice, if you have no passion there's no point in pretending you'll actually learn it. I know quite a few kids from back in the day who have been learning it for years but still suck absolute dick and can't even carry out a normal conversation or read instructions on food items. Why don't they just give up?
>>26372854 In Japanese its possible to understand most or the entire sentence without being able to actual pronounce it. In English you have to memorize the pronunciations of many words and if you don't know a few words in the sentence you're completely fucked unless you look them up.
>>26374909 Usually those designs with a ton of languages on them are google translated. It was probably just a really rare kanji. Plus he was also a high schooler. You continue learning kanji pretty much right up until you graduate
>>26374858 >and if you don't know a few words in the sentence you're completely fucked unless you look them up.
Not really. English words usually have some etymology to them, and in many cases you can guess what a word means even if you have not seen this specific one before. If it's in a sentence then it becomes even easier because then you can guess by context aswell. Guessing what an unknown kanji is outside of context is impossible though.
Well then no shit he wouldn't know it. It was probably a kanji that hadn't been using in any writing for nearly 60 years and isn't studied. A 16 year old isn't going to be reading a lot pre-turn of the century literature
>>26375194 >It was probably a kanji that hadn't been using in any writing for nearly 60 years and isn't studied >60 years Meanwhile 1000+ year old texts in semitic languages are read and understood on a daily basis. kek.
>took a japanese course my freshman year of college >did alright >teacher said I had really good pronunciation >2 years later >want to take another course before I graduate >don't remember much >drop by /djt/ >in the span of a week relearn everything I forgot >one month later I now know more kanji than people that took 3 semesters of college japanese >going to start reading soon Feels good man.
>>26375301 American Japanese classes, especially ones that use Genki, move EXTREMELY slow. The volunteer classes I took in Japan were far better than any of my college classes. The only good thing Genki does is force you to learn kana quickly. So many other English language textbooks are filled with fucking romaji
>>26375301 People who take college classes generally suck dick. You can NEVER get good at a significantly different language just by going to a class 4 hours every week. It's pathetic and some days I even feel bad for the idiots who think they're magically going to get good because they go to class
>>26375374 >>26375389 I'm glad DJT made me realize that. I was one of those people who thought they could git gud at the language with class and anime alone. Now I'm doing Anki every day and its really cool being able to recognize kanji in raws and weeb-posts. Like, I've still got years before I'm fluent, but just being able to recognize a handful of kanji here and there, and the amount I recognize growing with each day, makes it so much fun to learn.
I took 3 years of Japanese lessons and went to Japan. It's been 4 years since I've spoken or written the language and I've forgotten 60% of it. Learning a language is useless if you're not going to have the ability to use it.
>>26375614 Only lessons is just throwing away money >>26375510 Don't give up m8, I'm at the point now after 3 full years where japs ask me if I was born in Japan or not, it's the best feel I've ever had.
>>26375675 How do you study grammar? I know a shit ton of vocabulary through anki, so I can understand most conversations. But when the topic veers away from anything besides introductions and bar talk I can't keep up the facade
>>26375675 It was free lessons. Started in high school then my mom's old friend. My mom used to be an English teacher over there back in the day before she became a professor. She became good friends with some of the ladies. They even used to send me clothes and toys when I was a baby. >>26375656 There's nothing I want to read in Japanese though? I don't even like an I'm nor manga. I didn't learn Japanese because I'm a weeb.
>>26375809 Not interested in that either. I was actually interested in the culture and wanted to live over there and study for a while but that didn't happen. If I watch something in Japanese I can understand most of it still though. I just can't write it as well or read Kanji as well. A few months ago I started studying it again and majority of it came back to me but there's just no point now.
>>26375786 I don't know your current grammar level so to speak, but first off I would purchase either the Try! Series or the kanzen master series n1/2 textbooks and learn all that. From that, you just need to start reading, depending on your current level either manga or novels. Start with manga if you like then get reading real big boy books. It'll be tough at first but you'll certainly come across new grammar/expressions through them as well.
Then you just have to try and use them in conversation, but honesty half of the grammar you learn you'll never use and nobody else will use it either.
>>26375792 If you're in Kansai lets go out for lunch today, i have the day off work and shot posting on 4chan is boring
>>26376257 I'm planning on moving into the countryside, every time I've been on trips I've loved it. Also the Kansai summers do kill me. I'll actually be marrying my jap girlfriend in a couple of weeks (at least signing the papers) and getting that sweet spouse visa. Living the dream
>>26376420 A man after my own heart. What are you currently working as? At the moment due to visa stuff I'm just working at a gasoline stand but I'm looking around and I'm probably going to have to bite the bullet and go eikaiwa.
>>26370713 You must be joking. You need to learn the proper 'u', 'f', 'w', 'r' or you'll sound like an idiot. >>26373422 The Japanese 'r' is a tap somewhere in between the English l and r.
>>26371161 Not culture, but you really have to get used to the spoken language. The sentences are very open-ended.
>>26373335 >>26373463 >>26374892 Its hard to explain, but it is easier and somehow more satisfying reading kanji. The "multiple pronunciations" is an absolute nightmare when it comes to on-yomi. Just try looking kanji up by reading and you'll see what I mean.
>>26373451 >>26374060 It's much easier to recognise kanji that it is to write them. IMEs are a major problem, but if you say that in Japan you'll sound a bit like an old woman worried about "the way the youth are these days"
>>26374352 You sound so sarcastic, cause that's the only way you'd call someone "sempai" and then refer to yourself using "ore" in the same sentence.
I have no idea what you were trying to say though.
Oh man, it's ironic you say that japanese isnt phonetic because it's the same thing with English. You dont always pronounce things in english as it is written. English is a language where you have to HEAR others say the word in order to know how it's pronounced.
Off the time of my head, "google" has the oo as a "ooh" sound, while "door" has the oo as an "oh" sound. There's better examples out there, but it's so fucking stupid and broken.. I notice this because spanish is my native language and it doesn't have the problems english has. Spanish has tidles on top of vowels so you know how it's pronounced and which words need a harder/softer sounds. You literally pronounce it how it's written. No deviations or exceptions.
Bash japanese all you want, but don't name English as an example of a better language.
>>26379891 I wish the most helpful information wasn't posted on /a/. It should be on /int/. I've been coming here since high school, started studying Japanese in high school, (I graduated in 2006) and literally found out about djt like 6 months ago. Luckily most of the big stuff I discovered independently, but it sucks I was missing out on such a huge treasure trove of untranslated material.
>>26378992 >Take Japanese for 4 years in high school, 4 years in college, and have lived in Japan for 3 years >Nobody every understands me when I ask for melon soda >Take some volunteer lessons, and the lady says to not pronounce it like an r but pronounce it like an l. >Never have a single problem ever again ordering melon soda
Why the fuck didn't anybody over all those years ever fucking tell me?
Anyway are there any good youtube videos explaining it more in depth. All Japanese is fine. I know L isn't best but apparently its way better than R
I don't really see a point in it beyond being able to play certain video games that were never translated Nobunaga's Ambition comes to mind. I'd love to play a Japan version of Romance of the Three Kingdoms VII.
Japan itself does not interest me beyond videogames and the Sengokujidai, and I doubt there's much a market for a scotchirish man in the history department of any... oh right. Well, yea no point in me going to Japan beyond brief tourism.
>>26370326 I'm not going to need Japanese for anything in my life probably. If anything, I'd want to get better with my Spanish or French for now. Why the hell would I need a language for one tiny island which dosen't even have Japanese as its only language?
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