hey /r9k/ whats the best language to learn how to code? trying to turn my life around
Java. Hundreds of ready libraries, you learn OO programming off the bat, and it's relatively easy to make a program.
C++ is good if you can download some decent libraries for gaming or GUI. MFC is good too.
Pascal used to be the "learning language" but hardly anyone uses it or its descendants Ada and Delphi anymore.
>you should focus your learning efforts on investing and stocks instead.
^Good advice. OP, it sounds like you're a lazy person judging by how vague your question is and how you're asking it here instead of using a search engine to figure out information on your own. And you should probably know in advance that despite what you may suspect, programming is not an easy way to make money. I mean, it's easy in the sense everything you need to do programming is already available to you right now, unlike with becoming an electrician or a plumber where you'd have to get some tools and an appropriate work setting to begin even trying to learn anything.
But there's a reason why even though everyone has access to the tools to begin programming, the vast majority of people never do learn how to program. And that reason is it's a task that can be very complicated, abstract, and unrewarding. You basically have to be clinically autistic or OCD to have a fighting chance at making it. It's the mental equivalent of professional athletics. Nothing's technically stopping any of you from becoming professional football players, but realistically you know you're not going to become a professional football player.
But really, if you are older than 20, it will not be worth it to become a programmer cuz it takes a long time to get your foot in the door without a degree. Just adding "know Java syntax" to your skills section will do exactly nothing.
If you're American, and you're smart and driven enough to learn programming, I'd recommend the military, particularly air force or navy. Go in and become an electronics or communications guy. Higher chance of getting a steady career, and in less time
you're going to get 198430 different answers, op. this is a silly question and you would know that if you did any research about it
>You basically have to be clinically autistic or OCD to have a fighting chance at making it.
what do you mean? it ain't that hard. many stupid people get relatively well paid for making programs, and you don't have to be in the top 10% to make good money making software
Might as well learn html instead
are you op? if you're having this much trouble figuring out stuff for yourself and you aren't like 14, i assure you you're going to have a lot of trouble programming and maybe you should try something more mechanical. i'm serious
what's wrong with python and why do i let myself get trolled?
I'm pretty sure no one has a problem with HTML; it's just that it's not really a programming language, it's a markup language that lets browsers interpret webpages.
I think python is mostly used for scripting and automating shit.
I don't program or do any of that nerd shit, so I dunno for sure.
If you want a job as quickly as possible then it's either java
you really do not need to know that much java to get AT LEAST SOME job programming but if the only langauge you know is C or Python or some hipster language you are going to need to be significantly better.
JS + html will get you the most boring job quickest, but you won't be doing anything interesting... Ever. Very good technical companies are impressed with C++ and a language with a high learning curve, like Haskell (to verify intelligence)
>many stupid people get relatively well paid for making programs, and you don't have to be in the top 10% to make good money making software
I guess I'd have to see the work you're thinking of and the terms of their employment to make an informed judgement on that. The sort of programming tasks I'm familiar with and do for a living is something I'm pretty sure most people can't do. Don Knuth has a semi-famous quote along the lines of "Computer programs are the most complicated things that humans have ever created," which I would agree with. You can get into some very deep holes of abstract thought, and most people I've come across at work or wherever else don't have the patience to dive into all that.
Am I right in thinking that poor math skills will translate into even poorer programming skills?
I'm tempted to do the same as OP, since my degree is useless and I have no real skills, but I don't really care about programming at all; I just have a vague interest in computers.
Would I be better off just learning webdev shit to put on my resume?
actually read that very webpage, or try to figure out what they mean by 'try it for free' there
>The sort of programming tasks I'm familiar with and do for a living is something I'm pretty sure most people can't do
what do you do?
this is true but at the same tiem the best companies also look at CVs and university degrees more than portfolios (unless you've made something genuinely sick).
So yeah it will be very possile to get an online certificate in java or JS and make a modest portfolio yourself and get a job having previously only had a low-skill or retail job and no university degree.
But the odds of you doing the same thing with haskell or F# or OCAML are slim. There are few jobs aimed towards those languages to begin with and they don't have the kind of accessile hiring procedures that jobs in JS or java do.
the chances are less slim with C++ since there are more C++ jobs and it won't be seen as niche as the above functional languages.
you don't have to know any math to program, although many examples people use involve math. i'm sure you can find programming books for people who have the same degree as you do. and i don't know if anyone has researched whether people who have poor math skills also have poor skills in making algorithms, so who knows
what's your degree?
computer programming and math only share in common the fact that they're both about precisely following instructions and keeping track of things.
computer programming tends to have a lot more things to keep track of than a lot of maths.
it doesn't sound like you're cut out for it.
And webdev isn't magically a lot easier than programming.
it is programming websites. it still requires you to follow instructions precisely (or rather read and understand precise instructions and write your own) and keep track of things.
>companies also look at CVs and university degrees more than portfolios
That is the single largest nugget of bullshit in this entire thread. In this industry, concrete demonstrable projects are everything
I work for a large security company. I don't want to give away details, it's not a common job. To keep it very high level, a lot of what I do is automating business processes. I didn't start in IT and was originally just an analyst who wrote up IT tickets and helped explain what the business actually wanted to the developers. Eventually I ended up doing more of the development on my own since I realized very little ever got done when I just wrote instructions and waited on other people to do the real work with them.
I think the parts of that work which are the least accessible for people who don't know how to program would be taking a bunch of random existing processes / reports / systems of record / external vendor APIs and integrating everything into a single automated process so no money has to be spent on reps doing manual upkeep. Our company is constantly trying to find good developers to hire but most of the people who claim experience with programming and apply to programming jobs turn out to not really know much of anything at all.
>computer programming and math only share in common the fact that they're both about precisely following instructions and keeping track of things.
I'm declaring this thread a complete bullshit zone. No one here knows what the fuck computer programming is like or about.
Math and programming are hand in hand. I am a computer programmer. I have had to fill pages with calculus, do proofs, do lots and lots of shit with summations. Not because my employer made me, but because I had to to accomplish the programming task assigned to me by my employer
im studying in college right now for cs. What exactly is your job? Are you making data structures or something, why do you need so much math. Help a jr. out anon
it just sounds like something that would need some knowledge of software engineering to manage the complexity of the system. i thought you were an AI researcher for some company or something
not really. it sounds to me like you had to so some asymptotic analysis, but for most applications you don't have to do that. for example, i assure you that no one did any of that to make the software that 4chan runs on
I'd give much better odds of finding a job to a guy looking to switch careers and break into programming who learnt java and built a sudoku-solver or some other typical projects like that and applied to one of the thousands and thousands of java jobs than a guy who learnt Haskell or Ocaml or Lua and built a sudoku-solver or other typical projects and applied to one of the 100 or so (often less) jobs in those languages that are often looking for several years of job experience rather than entry-level anyway.
if you build something impressive like an add-on that becomes widely popular then sure, it doesn't matter. ut I'm talking about hte kind of things people typically build at the beginning.
What makes you think it's more difficult to work on AI than it is to do business process automation? The two aren't even necessarily exclusive of each other. The statistical techniques used with machine learning are used in business applications like call volume forecasting and attrition modeling.
Stop acting like your specific job or task is representative of all computer programming jobs.
How the fuck would would you need to fill pages of calculus when the project is to modify/improve a GUI for a customer or change a website?
What a fucking retard you must be to have so little perspective.
no where in that post does it say "not a single job involving computer programming requires any mathematics".
- prove properties of algorithms, like completeness or optimality, or prove it's not too far from optimal etc. I usually do this for my own sake. Not really numbers math, just formal logic
- have to calculate big-O run time for everything
- calculus due to neural networks
- "tensors" (vectors, matrix math, 3-dimensional arrays and up...) At its hardest, it involves things like coming up with clever distance functions. Lots of common algebra and stuff too though, like writing things that calculate gradient, average, various other statistical things
I work for a company that works for other companies. I help with data mining. Good luck buddy I love you
Nigger what? The most mathematics I've done when programming is when I was dealing with a custom OS and a compiler. Most programming doesn't entail the kind of mathematics you're using.
> i assure you that no one did any of that to make the software that 4chan runs on
Are you shitting me? Run time has to be a huge issue on the back end for a database as large as the one behind 4chan.
I just posted about all the math I gotta do. I'm the data mining anon
Programming will go to the third world soon enough. You need to learn something that will never leave the country. Things like entertainment or the trades. Become a filmmaker or something.
well no shit you're going to use a lot of maths if you're doing statistics. but that doesn't mean that
>Math and programming are hand in hand
like you implied. for many many things, you can get very far ahead before you have to start worrying about how efficient your algorithms are
I understand, but that dumbass anon was dealing in absolutes like some kind of sith. Saying programming and math barely share a thing in common. My case may be extreme, but it still disqualifies the statement that "the ONLY thing cs and math have in common is such and such..."
Nah, creating a form for someone to use would be something most people could figure out how to do in microsoft access without even knowing how to program outside of macro VBA and wouldn't be what I'd consider automation of a process. If someone still has to key stuff into a form as part of the process, then that's exactly what automation isn't.
come on. this is just you trying to tell yourself that you're special somehow because you know how to program. many chads and stacies are out there doing software engineering, anon
There is no best.
C++ is more powerful because memory management.
Python is a great one to start out learning.
It's more about what project you want to do, what framework and language you pick for that job.
>I didn't start in IT
>I think the parts of that work which are the least accessible for people who don't know how to program would be taking a bunch of random existing processes / reports / systems of record / external vendor APIs and integrating everything into a single automated process
>existing shit / reports / APIs
You really think that's the least accessible thing in SE for neurotypicals? Confirmed for codemonkey.
I can't fucking believe nobody has suggested C. If you are looking for job security learn how to actually code in C. Tons of old shit has been written and needs to be maintained since it would be way too much to remake in a different language. I work with a bunch of old people who program in C.
t. Worked as a programmer for 10 years and raking it in
Start with Python.
I work as a team leader in a pretty big software company.
Truth is, if you want to stay in the business you constantly need to learn new programming languages. Few years ago everybody was raving about java, then .net, now these technologies are already deemed obscure.
The flavor of the day now is:
>Rust for complex server side calculations or as an alternative to C++ in standalone software
>For small projects Node.js is good enough though, so maybe you're OK with JS
Right now all the programming languages are pretty much basing is syntax on C, so it's like a huge inbred family, they're very similar, you only approach them differently.