>>25704811 I don't believe I ever did. I never believed in Santa either. My mother never tried to take me to church or anything, she was more new age.
When I was like seven my best friend was Christian and I went with her family once to some Christian rock concert church event or something where they gave us school supplies and bibles and sang about the love of jesus. I liked the music and for a second I tried to get it up for Jesus like it was Pokemon or something. Lasted about a week, I believed it was real in the way that I believed Pokemon were real
difference is, 17 years later I am still playing Pokemon
>>25705157 I know there is a bit of a meme going round 4chan to believe in God and be as conservative as possible. But if you unironically believe in a Christian, all loving, God, then you are legitimately retarded. Not 4chan retarded, actually retarded. Even an inquisitive child can see religion as a scam. If you believe, not just meme believe, you are less intelligent than a child.
I had my doubts at around 7 was unsure what I really believed in around 12 No faith but held out the posablity of God and other related stuff being real at 15 Full on agnostic by age 17 Was agnostic til about a year ago, then I asked my self >do I believe in god/gods/the supernatural Instead of >is it possible that a god like being exist but does not interact with humanity on any measurable level The answer is no and I been a atheist ever since.
I respect most others religious beliefs and such as long as they are not rude about it, and keep my beliefs to my self for the most part.
I did realize around 14 or so that I really did not have the faith required to sustain belief in any particular religion though.
>>25704811 I've always believed for some reason, family wasn't religious, I was never forced to go to church, I do now out of my own choosing. I think it benefits society to have a moral base that is unchangeable. Without a concrete moral foundation, it would be too subjective to enforce any type of law. Also every atheist is a cultural christian. If a person is truly atheist wouldn't you just be nihilist?
>>25704811 I never stopped believing in God. I'm 19 now. Just recently I was sitting in traffic and it all hit me again. Looking at the traffic lights and cars and thinking about how advanced they are, but they can't even compare to how complex a single blade of grass is. I honestly don't understand how you can be an atheist. How you can look at all this, the whole universe, and say it wasn't created.
>>25704811 >This thread again. A bunch of retards trying to discuss a rather important topic which requires understanding of both philosophy and science. Wonderful.
Our shitty lives are not an excuse for the non-existence of anything. That being said, whether a god/the supernatural exists is still up in the air.
What most euphoric faggots don't realize is that the base construct of the supernatural is not scientifically invalid. At least according to current understanding.
Interestingly enough, the fact the series of coincidences surrounding "meme magic" actually makes a case against the existence of the construct of god as the unobserved observer. If collective will is capable of affecting reality, then it is collective will that creates reality.
I don't see how this would make a difference, unless a slight change would cause everything to form into a blackhole / not allow fusion to happen. And it would have to be 100% one or the other to rule out life as we know it. However not necessarily any variation of life.
>>25704811 13 or 14 can't remember. I always had my doubts and at that point I finally gave up and realized it was just a way to believe there was hope. You just needed to devote your life to it to the point you were a puppet.
>>25705887 Thanks republican-christian on facebook. >>25705935 Honestly though do you people devout their whole lives studying to only understand small fractions of these studies. Quantum mechanics is basically quantum philosophy. I am not sure what you are going for with Schrodinger's Cat, I am not attacking, I just want to understand what you are trying to convey?
I never really believed in the first place First time I was informed about it was when I was about 5, to which I replied something along the lines of "Isn't that just an excuse for guilty people to still feel pure and innocent?"
When physicists say the wave becomes a particle when it is 'observed,' they do not mean that someone has to look at it, they mean that when it comes into contact with another particle.
The exact same experiments, with the same results of wave-particle duality can be achieved just by shining a torch onto the electron beam. There is no conciousness of the torch, yet it changes the outcome of the experiment when the photons hit the electrons that are being diffracted.
>>25705935 >Why does no one have any clue about quantum mechanics? It is a extremely complex field, and layman information is full of pseudoscience metaphysical bullshit >Do you have any idea what wave particle duality really means? I can almost guarantee it means something completely different then what you think it means. >Schrodinger's cat? Was a thought experiment that was originally though up to point out how strange some aspects of QM are. This again is often misinterpreted though. >Consciousness creates reality. No and QM does not actually support that assertion. That is BS that non scientific metaphysicist pushed into "new-age" culture.
Around 9 when I prayed that I wouldnt get my ass beat and end up experiencing something terrible. Then I went trough near literal hell and figured that there is no god. No god would have allowed that shit to happen. Atleast I smartened up a bit then and realised that you gotta deal with stuff on your own, not with the help of some imaginary dude.
I've never believed in God. I've never even been closely acquainted with anybody religious if you don't count grandparents, and I'm extremely normie by /r9k/ standards. That entire worldview is just completely alien to me. I'm from a country that has an actual state church, but religious people just don't seem to actually exist.
Never did. Parents never pushed the religious crap. Well, atleast with me. They let me and my 2 sisters really decide what we believed in. Even now, my dad isn't all that religious. Mom still believes in the after life / spiritual side. But hasn't gone to church in a very long time.
i wasn't raised by a religious family and it never really got me. i remember some kid in middle school bringing a bible to me and trying to read it to me because "i was going to hell." he was genuinely confused about me in general.
i kinda feel bad for him, because i could tell his family was intensely religious but he was also clear gay, i really hope he didn't end up in some fucking sexuality "correctional therapy" bullshit.
>>25705491 Pascal's wager implies the if there is a god hr rewards your idea of being "good". How do you know that God doesn't have a completely different idea of how you should act? How do you know God doesn't reward "evil" deeds? Pascal's wager is the worst reason to believe anon
I don't think I ever believed in god. My parents were hardcore christians to an excruciating extent but I never got into it like they wanted me to. We had family bible study everyday but I spent the entire time drawing and fantasizing about something more interesting. I slept through church. Praying and all the other behaviors felt ridiculous. Around 11 I realized that I was more of a nihilist but I kept it to myself since my parents would probably disown me. They both get pleasure in the idea of hell and all the 'sinners' having to burn there for eternity. They found out I was no longer a christian around age 15 and refused to accept it. Stopped talking to me and treated me like an animal. They kicked me out at 16 and I haven't talked to them since. I believe that human beings do not possess a sufficient enough level of comprehension to rely on things like faith at this stage in human development. To believe in yourself so strongly to not doubt or question anything seems very delusional and anti-productive. The true nature of religion reeks of fear tactics, brainwashing and just overall manmade intentions and concepts. I can't get behind something that endorses a fucking eternal hell full of suffering, for fuck's sake. Anyone who can accept that and see it as just and right is not a person that I want to be around.
>>25708328 Your parents are just dicks. I'm a pretty conservative Roman Catholic, but if my son was an atheist I guess I'd just accept it. It's still my blood. They're hypocrites that are sinning themselves, family is very important.
I'll keep you in my prayers anon, I guess even if that doesn't mean much here.
I only realized that It cannot be relied on,supplicated,moved by Pity or a need to be Just. It would violate the Rules,all that Old Testament interference. It Watches,and Types madly at the keyboard,sometimes grim,sometimes wildly hysterical from its own wit and ironies. I am but an Abstraction to It,only So real,and therefore only worth So much concern. Oddy,if I were to Define this Creator, the closest image applicable would be the Flying Spaghetti Monster:it's noodley appendages running subtly through life,tweaking parameters where needed.
I cannot blame It for What Goes On. It is as curious as I about What Happens Next, and I am in control of my own life,to some extent, dealt my hand of cards,my defining attributes and characteristics,and facing my own personal drama. As we all are. And since we cannot turn to Divine Intervention to help us (It's too busy smoking a cigar and drinking Jack Daniels for that),all we can do is help each other. With Advice,a Strong Arm,and an occasional ASS Kicking.
I am a Creator myself. I understand. And I try not to take my misery personally, only flipping the bird at the sky with a wry knowing smile.
>>25709463 have you thought that maybe god just isn't good? maybe he lost hope in us. maybe he just doesn't care
it doesn't matter what anyone believes ever. i don't blame people for having a god and being part of a religion. some people just can't admit it and need a reason. they need to believe there's a reason for this awful world we live in
>>25709667 I guess I should add that another reason I stopped believing is because of intolerant pricks like you with this superiority complex thinking they are better than everyone else because of their faith.
You want to bitch about my ignorance of theology? Fine. Hopefully there is a hell and your arrogant ass will get thrown in there and you look up stupidly asking "abloo bloo why am I in hell I was a Christian/catholic I'm better than normal people wahhh"
You're destroying the following of your own religion.
>raised by atheist parents who explained everything to me scientifically >didn't even know of the concept of god or religion until I was 5 and went to primary school >don't have all these weird hang-ups about abandoning my faith or a phantom feeling of god judging everything I even think that most religious raised people eventually admit to
>>25709764 >intolerant OMG STOP TRIGGERING ME THIS IS A SAFE PLACE
This is no world for stupid bastards who still choose to speak out as heretics and think their ignorance makes them wise, and thereby right.
You could perhaps be humble and accept your ignorance instead of speak out because muh safe space. >>25709791 Don't upboat yourself. >>25709800 Proof is meaningless, presuming your non-methods are accurate is absolutely retarded >>25709812 >scientifically You mean under a dogma that was btfo before it was even solidified?
For all those who said they reconverted or never lost faith what makes you accept it? At best I could find there are a few messy philosophical augments, but these are still debated to this day and are by no means are "proven" and usually at best give you something very vague, the first thing to exist, the greatest thing, etc. Even If you do accept these often it seems to make a little difference in practical life. A God who can only be argued but never demonstrated is the functional equivalent to no God in my book.
>>25709864 You're a poser and non-entity. >>25709873 Because I am right, and must speak the truth or I am actively allowing others to damn themselves with their ignorance. >>25709906 Wrong, it is in fact the highest evil to be an atheist. >>25709923 Those are fundamentals, yes. >>25709953 Except you, you pointless little brats who think they can profane at will with no rebuttal against them. >>25709960 Another moron who doesn't understand any theology or philosophy. >A God who can only be argued but never demonstrated is the functional equivalent to no God in my book. Icing on the cake; a demonstration of pure, undiluted stupidity.
>>25704811 I always used to question things that didn't make sense in church(which was a lot) but I'd always get these nonsensical answers so I stopped asking because I didn't want to look stupid. When I was 12 I became friends with an atheist kid and he started challenging my beliefs.
>>25709687 I lean this way too. God isn't an omniscient Santa Claus reading prayers in the clouds like all the Christians make it out to be. If God exists then God is a timeless amorphous interdimensional being of pure light. karma, and energy, wheels within wheels within wheels eternally turning to balance the universe. More like one of those hyperevolved beings from Star Trek or the Force from Star Wars. I know one loses all credibility here when you mention psychedelics but that's one of the things that they suggested to me, and that makes a hell of a lot more sense than the bs traditional religious people are always going on about.
>>25709960 well for me I see signs everyday, I see the number 41 around 5 or 6 times a day, it's been happening since high school, at first it freaked me out but I've gotten use to it. I always get the felling like even in my darkest times there are people backing me up, I guess you could just call me crazy, but I think it's more then that.
>>25710010 >Icing on the cake; a demonstration of pure, undiluted stupidity.
If God makes no noticeable difference in human life, then it makes no real difference if he exist or not and we might as well not bother with the question. I mean sure it could be a philosophical question, that we seek for academic interest or for the sake of knowledge but would be about as useful as arguing if numbers are real. Sure it might interest some but in the end it really doesn't matter either way.
>>25710010 So being an atheist is worse than murder, rape, theft, betrayal, torture, and even mass genocide?
>>25710010 generally you want to present an argument in order to convince someone of your world view unless you're not trying to convince people of your world view and merely want to feel superior as one of god's predetermined
I haven't been to church since I was 13, my parents made me go every second sunday prior to that. They suddenly stopped going and never really explained why.
I don't ever think I was that religious, I don't buy into Christianity in a literal sense but I still have a weird emotional connection with the bible and the church. I have very fond memories of my religious upbringing, love christian imagery and bible stories despite more or less being an athiest.
14. I was a very religious boy. Then I started to realize there was no way there could be a benevolent god. Maybe there could be a prick god but not one that loves everyone. Look at the world. Suffering is everywhere. No one escapes it. Happiness is fleeting and not achievable for everyone. No benevolent creature would allow something like pic related to exist.
>>25710103 See? You don't understand theology one bit. >>25710163 >IF I DONT BENEFIT OR DUN SEEN IT THE NITS DUMB AND BULLSHIT NSHIT >So being an atheist is worse than murder, rape, theft, betrayal, torture, and even mass genocide? Again, not understanding theology: >I DONT LIKE IT SO ITS BAD >>25710179 >>25710191 Pointless non-posts. >>25710227 >i literally do not understand the most basic theology that was dealt with a good 1800 years ago >a perfect being must follow MY MORALS OMG IM THE BEST EVER SUCK ME OFF EVERYBODY >>25710250 Arrogant cunt.
Never was religious, my dad is agnostic and my mother is technically a christian but never goes to church and doesn't belive in god, but she claims to be christian because of her very religious up bringing.
That being said, I'd like to think of my self as moraly on par to any other person, religious or not.
I literally never believed in God as far as I know. My dad was a little c christian just because he was raised as one, my mom is 'spiritual'. We stopped going to church when I was 1 because my sister freaked out during the Easter story, so I missed out on the whole Church scene basically entirely. My mom recently wondered if she screwed me over by not giving me that, and I honestly don't know. I've always taken the meaningless of life for granted, which is nihilistic, but at least if you've always accepted that reality, it's less bothersome.
Anyone remember how fucking boring church was? I remember being pissed off because my mom decided to pass out to have a "spiritual experience" after the priest gave her a blessing after mass. But of course she woke up as soon as I kicked her get up. Come to think of it looking back I don't think I ever really believed.
>>25704811 16 >le athiest fedora tipper 18 >started hating both theists and athiests >also discovered the wonders of philosophy 20(now) >hate life and want to die Nothing matters life as we know it is meaningless
>>25710283 Why do people always try to make atheism into more than what it actually is? Atheism doesn't need to be belief in anything. You can just reject the concept of god or God or gods out of hand and be done with it. That doesn't require any extra defining.
17 Right when I saw the life leave my Dad's eye's when he passed from cancer. Months leading up to his death, I saw him cry and scream asking "God" to help him. I would pray and hope my dad would make it. When I saw him die with his hand going limp in mine, I knew there was no God. No matter how many senseless people told me there was.
Oh, now it's all cookies and cakes actually. See, now that atheism is more tolerated, the church has lost its societal pressure upon younglings. Now they realized what they need to keep their new batch of cultists is to make church fun, otherwise kids are gonna not wanna go and eventually leave. So they have activities and get frozen yogurt and bounce houses, etc.
>>25710368 >reasonable Another myth perpetuated by the ignorant. >>25710366 It does though, don't asspull. >>25710403 >senseless OMG HOW DARE THING I DONT LIKE HAPPEN I DESERVE TO BE SUCKED OFF AT EVERY POINT Are you still 17?
>>25710272 >Again, not understanding theology Then explain to me what I am missing and why it even matters, and if I don't "BENEFIT OR DUN SEEN IT" then why should I even care? I don't even need to belief or disbelief because apparently it makes no noticeable difference. If there is a difference in the way the universe works with a God then be all means point it out.
>I DONT LIKE IT SO ITS BAD Also explain how a not believing in a single abstract concept/being(God) is worse than all these destructive behaviors.
>>25710417 In all honesty the teen masses are just regular masses with more contemporary music. And youth group is just the biggest jerks and sluttiest chicks getting together and pretending it isn't just an excuse to hang out and get free food.
Who #FollowerOfOrder here? I don't believe in the christian god nor anything, but I believe in a ultimate kind of high order and harmony worth in strive for, I even made a silly chant:
To everything that is righteous and just To everything that is valiant and good So that there is justice and order So that my ways are pure and the means clean To have the dignity to stand for what I respect May I have the strenght to stand by myself without wavering So as not to stand alone To have mercy for the weak while faith for those I cannot save While aways firm and stead to purge all that is evil and impure May I bring peace for those in war and understanding for those in need So we remain together as one unbreakeable chain
Im an agnostic atheist, meaning I either believe in a perfect being not from any religion created the universe, or just some higher-up shmuck is running a game of sims
Wouldn't it be funny if our universe is actually just some kinda interactive game and the people watching think whenever we talk about the universe being a simulation is just self-referential humor added into the game when in fact were actually sentient life forms, and every time we addressed this fact they though that this was more self referential humor.
>>25704811 16, I can pinpoint it almost to the day. No big story or whatever, I just had a really hot slut trying to get me to touch her tits. I figured there was no way any real God would give a flying fuck or prevent me from touching something so cool. didn't touch them anyway, she was one of my best mates' girl and I was too guilty.
Kierkegaard had some good points, in the presence of a divine entity a human would indeed not be able to use his powers of reason to comprehend it, and as such a 'leap of faith' is required to believe in god. It is a completely valid view of life that is fundamentally immune to criticism, as it asserts all criticism is part of an inferior mode of thought
your claims are unfalsifiable, that doesn't mean other people are immature or ignorant for not believing in them. the same argument can be made for solipsism, it is also unfalsifiable and thus equally valid. every hypothesis that can not be falsified is equally valid, you chose one of a number of choices and it's just as right as any other. This is not some esoteric knowledge of the innerworking of the universe, it's just a way to commit philosophical suicide and an excuse to dedicate yourself to a code of ethics, and there is nothing necessarily wrong with this
>>25710812 >ridiculous Somebody failed English 101 >>25710829 Because you are actively worthless. >>25710851 No it's not, stop falsely appointing value to your irrelevant philosophy. >>25710866 >nonsensical >>25710887 >camus High-schooler's aren't worth speaking to.
Belief in anything but an absolute being is illogical.
>Our shitty lives are not an excuse for the non-existence of anything.
Yeah they are.
An all-Good, all-powerful, all-knowing God wouldn't leave peoples lives to be miserable.
And don't give me that garbage "free will" excuse. Libertarian free will is an incoherent, self-contradictory mess of bullshit. Compatibilist free will is overt sophistry and deception.
There is no free will. And even if there were (there can't be because it's an incoherent concept, but let's just humor the idea), if you look at the Bible, God interferes with people's wills repeatedly.
"God" and "free will" are some of the dumbest, most toxic, harmful concepts mankind ever thought up. They're used as excuses to hurt others and oneself, too. They are dangerous delusions.
>>25710888 Cogito ergo Sum is an extremely simple piece of logic, what are you entailing? >>25710930 Please don't shitpost. >>25710982 >An all-Good, all-powerful, all-knowing God wouldn't leave peoples lives to be miserable. Why? MUH FEELINGS? >Libertarian free will is an incoherent, self-contradictory mess of bullshit. Luckily Christianity isn't Libertarian. >"God" and "free will" are some of the dumbest, most toxic, harmful concepts mankind ever thought up Said every illiterate ever. OMG THESE THINGS TRIGGER ME BAN THEM
>>25710919 >Belief in anything but an absolute being is illogical. >>25710440 >>reasonable >Another myth perpetuated by the ignorant.
this is what we call double think, either you commit to reason being irrelevant in studies of the divine, or you accept reason as a guiding principle, you can't have both when they're convenient to you
I think i gave you too much credit here >>25710887
you're dumber than I thought, have you even actually read kierkegaard?
>>25711018 >Please don't shitpost. Your the one who is lashing out at everyone,offering no arguments and calling them stupid instead. All your do is say we don't understand your brilliant christian reasoning and never actually explain anything.
>>25710769 No responses so I just want to say that the Baha'i Faith (robot won't allow non-ASCII text) is very interesting and I guess I'd recommend looking into it for any bored lost souls. It's different from the other religions in some ways. I'm by no means an adherent, I just am interested in it and can appreciate it's value.
>>25711362 I mean I guess the issue ends up being that from your perspective you need to accept that suffering can be a good thing, a sort of of Dostoyevskian take on things. But I have a hard time accepting that premise. I simply can't accept that the amount of suffering in this world is justified, or especially could be justified if there was an omnipotent being at the helm.
Never was really deep into believing, but I was basically forced into it out of fear. One day I was maybe 12 and I thought it was stupid and insane. Got a dad who does nothing Christian but says I'm a heathen for not believing. It's whatever. But he'll burn/destroy anything that has a pentagram, upside down cross, or ouija board on it.
>>25711487 Because protestants are essentially glorified atheists. The pentagram is originally a sacred symbol, and St. Peter's cross most certainly isn't demonic. Does he also believe the ROTAS square to be evil?
>>25711492 Admittedly not in it's entirety. It's sitting on one of my bookshelves and every now and again I take a run at it, but usually don't get very far. I haven't tried in a while though, I should give it another go. I'm under the understanding that the New Testament goes down a lot easier than the old.
Anyone else ever contemplate going to church just to see if they feel anything from the sense of community? I don't think I would, but I've come close to trying. I think my mom feels the same way, if she ever does, I might go with her.
>>25711521 He doesn't know the origins of those symbols because he's a complete idiot. He was forced into it by his parents as well, only he never thought for himself. No clue if he knows what the ROTAS square is either, but he'd probably think it's evil. He'd always tell me how he used a ouija board when he was my age, and he saw demons come out it and spooky fog and all this shit. I just assume he was stoned off his ass. Fun fact: he told me this stuff around New Years when he was drunk on absinthe.
None of you truly understand god, not a single one.
Imagine a life without evil or hardship, this would be a sea of solitude but unending boredom. A espetacle without catarsys.
Imagine all the hollywood flics without a villan, no controverse. At the end of the day a shadow is just a shade we're unable to see and life is all about climbing the montain. So yeah, enjoy your masturbation, it's all preliminaries in preparation for the ecstasy of cumming a fat load.
It's not about being a square saint nor a cunt, it's about making it interesting.
All our miserable, small and semingly inefectuous hardships and achieviments...Are, and are not at the same time because of that. So what I'm am saying is: take your time, because it's yours.
At 12-13 I had my doubts. When I was 14 I came to the conclusion that there was a God. After that, Catholicism (or christianism in general) seemed like the most logical of all religions, so I put my faith in it.
>>25710686 He thinks his god exists. What makes your christian god any more real than Norse, Greek, Roman, and gods of other polytheistic belief systems?
That's what I've never understood. At least those make sense. >They help or were a part of the creation of the universe or world >They don't really meddle in human affairs unless they really want to >They don't want us to do bad shit but ultimately don't do much for earthly punishments which is why it feels like there's no justice in the world
>>25711837 >All our miserable, small and semingly inefectuous hardships and achieviments...Are, and are not at the same time because of that. So what I'm am saying is: take your time, because it's yours. no god would punish children with possible lifelong mental illness and tragedy for no reason other than being unlucky enough to be born to the wrong single mother in poverty.
trials through hardship are different. when your hardship never ends, it's no longer a trial.
>>25711928 >You were homeless but that wasn't enough for him! it wasn't enough for him when i was abused, either. nor when my sister suicided.
>>25710686 You know a belief system is flawed when the diehard followers tell the nonbelievers "you guys just don't GET him" and "he is so big and complex nobody will EVER understand him!" I really wonder how someone can look me in the eye and tell me I will never understand a being but I still need to worship it.
>>25711825 >where was god then? why did he let this happen!? I don't know, anon. I just don't know. When it first came out I thought it was proof he was here, ya know? That he was with us. But once it got taken down I knew... I knew.
>>25711837 Explain to me why a god would allow bad things to happen while being the most powerful thing to ever exist. It's comparable to watching a person get raped and telling them it's their fault because they didn't believe you'd help them.
Does god want to prevent evil but can't? His power is limited. Can he but he just doesn't want to? He's sadistic. Can he and does he want to? Why does it still happen? Is he unwilling or unable to? Then why bother praising a lie?
April 2011. Just turned 17. Stopped believing for the wrong reason though. Just had a bad track race and was basically turned into an edgelord and said I stopped believing and even told my parents. They didn't flip, but were concerned. The next year or so the decision gave me the courage to just listen to some reason and logic through YouTube videos like Qualiasoup and changed my thinking and perspective.
Wasn't a militant atheist by any means, but definitely went through a strong phase of hearing opinions and general discourse. At about age 19-20 I had become "just" an (agnostic) atheist and didn't really pursue Internet discourse on the matter like I used to and didn't have it consume a significant portion of my life like it did before.
When I was 8 - 10 though I came to the realization of the problem on why there were so many religions if everyone else believed with utmost sincerity that THEIR religion was the right one and everyone else was wrong. Asked my mother about and she basically just said that we were the true church and everyone else had partial truth, which was just adding words my initial question. Didn't come back to the question till a decade or so later.
>>25712219 >that we were the true church and everyone else had partial truth, Don't you just love that tho. She probably heard that from her parents, who heard that from their parents and so on until it gets to the point where it's just >My God is better than your God because I said so. Happened with polythiesm >Y-You have 9 gods w-well I have one and he does EVERYTHING
You're going about this the wrong way. You think gravity is FOR life, when it's more so that life developed BECAUSE of gravity. That's why we're here, because of a chronological sequence of events. Don't separate life from natural phenomena, we're the result of this phenomena and part of it as well.
The possibility for variety exists because we can draw different cards, the game is to adapt and take form with what is given, which makes not all forms and states pleasant.
A world of no suffering, no boredom and no hardship is the equivalent of an isolated system or infinity, but there is no such thing, there's just what we cannot grasp and this may bring terror or bliss in the hopes for what may yet to be.
>>25712391 >>The possibility for variety exists because we can draw different cards, the game is to adapt and take form with what is given, which makes not all forms and states pleasant. ehhh fuck off with that bullshit. no one should be allowed to draw a hand as bad or worse than mine.
there's growing up poor. that's hard. or growing up white in an intercity black school, that's hard. then there's what i grew up in, and what turned out for me. that's unreasonable for any god to give.
not to mention the countless cases worse than me.
no one should be able to draw a hand that bad. regulation should exist with an omnipotent god, or he should at least let those of us with such shitty lives that reincarnation is real so we can fucking try again.
I was born in burgerland, went to church, was an altar boy. >inb4 sexual harassment It was cool. I always got to be Caesar in the little christmas play we did, since I was already dressed in a white robe thing. I believed in god i guess. I moved to germany and had this cool priest who was pretty chill and a cool guy. Church service was short and to the point and I felt that I learned something remotely important. He also let me play the organ which was pretty fun. I moved back to burgerland and the church merged with another church and its kinda shitty. We have shitty music and an obnoxious choir. It made me wonder why the fuck they were there. I was in town for christmas this year, and I agreed to go to mass with my parents. We get there 10 min early, to get a seat. It was full anyway, because there was a christmas music performance, which went into mass 20 min. I just don't reel that faith is really strong when there is all this shitty music that people are supposed to like is keeping them entertained. It is like a shitty tv show that people watch because they are told to.
My philosophical rebuttal against religion is that it is an extension of the just world fallacy, where the good are rewarded, and the bad are punished. It promotes such a system, and reinforces it in the current and afterlife, but it does not really work. Religous people are assholes too.
>>25712355 The only religion I've seen with a good answer to that question is Baha'iism. Their basic concept is essentially that there is one true God, but he has reached out to humanity many, many times with different messengers with different ideas suited for different masses of people. So essentially God has been leading us towards the final conclusion of realizing it's all basically the same shit. So a Bahai'ist would be able to just shrug that off and say "We're worshiping the same God, they're just following the tenants of an earlier messenger more directly. Doesn't really matter as long as they're okay people"
>>25712731 This logic makes it seem that god has the mind set of "you either get good and bad or nothing at all!" So he just creates good and bad because to him there is absolutely no other way to do it. Then why is heaven seen as some perfect divine paradise and Earth is a shithole in plenty of other places? God is just a baby if that's the case.
Fuck anon, you sound like you belong as a voice actor for Grand Theft Auto V in the Epsilon Program.
>>25712731 >And yet you are here, the final consient result, with all bitterness and scars, but also the dignity of surving. Don't make light of yourself, anon. yeah, i'm here, with schizophrenia and a ton of other shit that's wrong with me. i'm here, about to be homeless in a few weeks because i can't work because of the schizo and i have no family or friends. i'm here, and i only got to go to one year of college because i was born into a $0 income family. i'm here, and my oldest sister and closest friend killed herself 1.5 years ago. i'm here, and resistant to most medicines for my illness.
when does my hardship end? when does god decide i've fucking done enough and deserve a god damn break? isn't a decade of neverending shit enough for even a small respite? anything?
>>25705555 >Literally billions of other planets >one just happens to be suitable for life to develop >life develops >life gains conciousness >yfw you are that life and 14 billion years of evolution has turned you into a stupid piece of shit
The really messed up thing is that your case (being born poor) is the rule, not the exception.
The majority of people are poor. I notice a lot of governments try to downplay this fact, but it's the case.
Real poverty (the inability to afford basic needs and still have a surplus left over for savings, so that you have some security and aren't stuck living on the edge) is the rule, not the exception.
Some people try to define poverty so narrowly that it makes it seem like less of a problem than it is.
The reality is that most people are poor, and don't have nearly enough money to afford all their needs and still build some savings.
The really fucked up thing is that this scarcity is pretty much artificial. There's really no natural shortage of food or housing or any of that stuff. There's a natural shortage of water in desert areas and a space shortage in urban areas, but that's about it.
The rest of the shortages of pretty much everything used in daily life are due to either malice, greed, or human error.
Godel's sez: Definition 1: x is God-life if and only if x has as essential properties those and only those properties which are positive. Definition 2: A is an essence of x if and only if for every property B, x has B necessarily if and only if A entails B. Definition 3: x necessarily exists if and only if every essence of x is necessarily exemplified. Axiom 1: If a property is positive, then its negation is not positive. Axiom 2: Any property entailed by - i.e., stirctly implied by- a positive property is positive Axiom 3: The property of being God-like is positive Axiom 4: If a property is positive, then it is necessarily positive. Axiom 5: Necessary existence is positive. Axiom 6: For any property P, if P is positive, then being necessarily P is positive. Theorem 1: If a property is positive, then it is consistent, i.e., possibly exemplified. Corollary 1: The property of being God-like is consistent. Theorem 2: If something is God-like, then the property of being God-like is an essence of that thing. Theorem 3: Necessarily, the property of being God-like is exemplified.
>>25712898 >To these blind nutjobs, you haven't sacrificed enough. >It's just a pyramid scheme but you lose mental stability instead of money. i agree, but i'm curious to see what his response is to that.
your point will be proven when he tells me something along the lines of "god just has much more in store for you than the average man. that is why you have suffered so much. do not fret, your respite will come."
Truth be told, god has yet to show me true mercy for those who suffered and died meaninglessly. After all, suffering is suffering, agony is agony. All sacrifices?
I try too see our lives as just components on the development of a bigger organism, the humanity organism, and all our lives and deaths are the functioning and sheding of this being, whatever destiny god has for it.
Maybe that's kind of shifting responsability from god to humanity for your suffering, but to truly live and struggle is that...True free will?
>>25704811 >12 >discover agnosticism >hey this makes sense that's what I am >evolve into atheist >atheist until about 17 >stopped caring about religion all together >don't deny/accept any deity >just can't be damned, become apatheist And that's how I become the hipster's agnostic
>>25713936 You're pretty much proud of your suffering and you're okay with never knowing if you'll be redeemed for suffering that has occurred to you and have not had control over. >is living and struggling true free will? He'll let you live and deal with hardships and pretty much give you the finger if you need help, but expects your love and praise regardless? Face it, anon. Your god is either a giant dick, or isn't real.
>>25707133 You know, I always wonder how devout religious followers can understand the Holocaust and still think god loves everybody. The jews were his supposed chosen people and he just let 6 million of them die. If he allows that, why the fuck would he save a concerned mom's son from cancer, or prevent fatal car accidents, or stop a father from raping his daughter?
>the universe and all encompassing reality was made in 7 days even though the cosmic microwave background says otherwise >b-but its an a-allegory for evolution >no mention of dinosaurs in genesis, surely somebody would write about seeing a huge lizard knocking about >god made man in his own image, perfect in every way >commits sin >people living for 900 years+ in the middle of a desert
Think like this: for the ability of being a true dick, he made evil possible so we may experience true free will. That comes with a price tough, and that price is of also having an asshole and being also dicked all the same.
What a cool guy, he presented us the pleasure of beng evil for the price of also suffering it. Thats how he is, he gave us the entire package for justice. Sorry timmy, in cod:life you also get shot back!
This true god is injustly unrecognized because he favors no one, but we worship him by enjoying ourselves fully in our arrogance, presuntousness and hypocrisy. What a cool guy.
>>25715046 >he created evil so we can express our free will and deal with hardships! >we may never understand his way or why he wants to torment his creations and not want to help >but isn't he just a great guy? The idea that you are totally fine with doing this bewilders me. I honestly have no idea how somebody can be that stupid. This isn't meant as an insult, but how moronic are you? Have you ever considered therapy? Because this is some screwed up logic you've shackled yourself to. The idea that a being that created an entire universe focuses only on one planet and gets his rocks off to his most advanced creations murdering and raping each other just so they can turn around and praise him for the privilege is probably the most buffoonish thing I've ever read. You are praising him for extorting you of your fears, weaknesses, and struggles. And you see no problem in this. In fact, you seem to smile that bruised up and tattered shit grin of yours at the very idea of pleasing this disgusting tyrant. If god is real, and if everything in the bible is absolutely true, he can send me to hell anyway. I'd rather be around an asshole than a lying two-faced asshole.
>>25705373 I suspected something was up at around 11-12 and at around 14-15. I decided all religion is BS and just fairy tales made up by ancient peoples to regulate the masses without doing any work.
I was in human geography and we were on the religion unit in sophomore year and I was like "oh hey all the countries that are strongly religious are like.. third world countries... could it be that following ancient rules hinders development?" and thus began my edgy phase
>>25715473 >tfw that's exactly what happened >tfw forced to go to church for literally 2 years >tfw finally stopped after I tried to kill myself (not directly related but it didn't help) t-thanks Jesus
no but srs it was kinda dressing in dark colors and listening to edgy death metal really loud. I was pretty edgy.
>>25715473 In church, it was edgy to ask questions. I'm black and went to an all-black church for a few years as a kid. In Sunday School, they showed a video with Adam and Eve. Both of them were white. So I asked the teacher where did black people come from if Adam and Eve were white. He got mad and told me to stop joking around. The other kids started asking too. From then on, nobody was allowed to ask questions.
>>25715515 From what I've seen in friends who've done the same thing, it's just the feeling of being different and wanting to express it. As annoying as it is, it's pretty normal once you realize being different doesn't kill you. Then you get to the phase of "nobody gives a shit really" and just do your own thing.
>>25715545 >nobody was allowed to ask questions How To Form A Church: the statement.
15 at the age of 25 I pledged my allegiance to the supreme hallucinogenic deities. Atheist seriously outright you wrong as fuck. I was just like you for many years. Hallucinogens opened my mind. Life is more complex then you think. Turn on Tune in Dropout Eat mushrooms become a god, drop acid to talk to any of the many deities
No, this is my particular faith, I fully agree the christian god is an hypocrite and two faced. You may even call me an worshipper of satan according with your point of view.
So what is this God of mine? He is divine symmetry, he is completeness, heis the real deal, the complete package which endorses the human experience without bullshit. Keyword here: experience. The real deal doesn't half asses it.
Yes, I'm pround of my own shit, It dignifies and gives true meaning to anything.True worthness, true strenght. We can truly smile because we can also deeply cry and make others too.
This is the real god you worship right now by living, by crying, smiling. And it's all worth because we go down doing both.
>>25715622 I feel like I'm reading an ad for Children Of The Mountain. This is absolute lunacy. Enjoy your terrible perspective and all the shit life throws at you, hoping some deity jacking off to a kid getting their skull crushed will save you.
I was 11, we were taught the story of Job during a youth meeting, and I asked the youth pastor why God would ever do something like that to someone who love him so much, and is on the responses that God has a plan for everything. I didn't accidentally said out loud ( which is a bad habit that I have) " well God sounds like an ass hole"
I was kicked out of church for that one and the pastor talked to my parents. I was allowed to come back but since that day I figured that there's no point in worshipping a god thats an ass hole
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