>>25561516 because believe it or not retarded people thinks fish is not MEAT, gives you soup with some beef juice or shit like that, so you make sure everyfucking body knows what you eat, so there is no awkward moments.
>>25561627 This. Being a vegan is sometimes depressing as fuck. You've accepted that the entire world is fucked and our food system is broken and dependent on cruelty and slowly destroying the environment. And despite evidence pointing to a vegan diet being at least as healthy as an omnivorous one, people still shut down any time you want to talk about it. People will literally say that it's okay if you kill their friends and family so long as you make use of the corpse in order to justify liking the taste of animal flesh. The cognitive dissonance is astounding and every time I encounter it I'm just shocked.
So we reach out. We put ourselves out there as being vegan because it can be very lonely if we don't know other vegans. Mainstream society looks down on us and we're surrounded by people that don't understand or approve of what we're doing. Sometimes we just need a reminder that we're not alone.
Fish are basically vegetables the sea. They have such low intelligence and minimal sentience that they may as well not be conscious at all. If you're hard bleeds for fish being eaten then you're a moronic faggot.
>>25562967 That sounds pretty selfish. Everyone has those things that "no one I know is like this so let me go cry to everyone about it". All of us are going through shit bro, I don't need to hear your sob story
Although I guess my response may be a bit biased since vegans get a bad reputation from all of those invasive people who try and shit on anyone that doesn't follow the same diet as them and call them disgustingly cruel animal haters
>>25563055 Thankfully that reputation is changing, if slowly. Vegans as a whole were pretty loud and aggressive when the movement was in its infancy. It brought attention to it, even if it was negative. Otherwise people would never have known it existed. Angry vegans are a minority within a minority now. A lot of millennials were brought to the philosophy by people like Colleen Patrick-Goudreau.
I don't think it's really very selfish to seek validation. It's certainly annoying to be vocal about it, though. Social media is full of that sort of shit anyway. Most of it just isn't on your radar.
>>25563124 Oreos are vegan and those are far from healthy. Weight is dependent on your calorie intake versus your calorie expenditure. I could eat nothing but broccoli and be a fatass if I had 4000 kcal of it a day. She's just as disgusting as all the other fatties.
>mfw im vegetarian and my mom eats all my food I make >"wow this is good anon what's in in"
>>25562537 This is my problem, although I doubt I'll make vegetarian or vegan friends. I'm on a vegan group on bookface and they're all fucking annoying as hell but it's nice for "oh this place has this weird vegan shit on sale guys look"
I like making vegan/vegetarian stuff for my friends though. I made vegan pancakes for me and my mom like a half an hour ago and she liked them.
>>25563042 there are studies that disprove this argument, a lot of animals are as retarded as fish don't be so autistic, also my argument still stand as a vegan you dont eat any meat or animal deviated product, kill yourself, but dont let others eat you cuz you meat
>>25563124 I once dated a girl who I recently caught up with again as friends. She claims to be vegan, doesn't seem to eat that much, and yet is like 110 kg at 5 foot tall. As soon as people leave the room she must just stuff her face with cakes. How does she maintain her mass?
>be vegan >see thread mentioning veganism >want to participate, but don't know if I can tolerate the frustration and inevitable rage that comes from the (usually) unproductive conversation full of ad-hominems and other fallacies
Fuck it, I'm gonna participate in this one as long as it appears somewhat intelligent.
>>25563042 Fish have nervous systems and feel pain like we do, to say nothing of how needlessly destructive the fishing industry is.
>>25563124 You would be amazed. My ex was vegan and constantly battled to keep the weight off, always maintaining some flab. There's a difference between a vegan who eats veggie dogs, chips, oreos, and soy nuggets and one who eats whole grains, legumes, fruits, and veggies, just like there's a difference between a meat-eater who eats shitty and one who eats healthy.
>>25561627 You'd be amazed. >be me, offer a bite of my trail mix to somebody >"Is it vegan?" >Happily respond "Yup!" >"Then I don't want it."
>>25563384 I'd be lying if I said Earthlings didn't drive the point home for me.
Any other vegans on here who /self-conscious/? >go out of my way to avoid the asshole vegan stereotype >don't even tell people unless it's asked, which is usually months in >cringe every time somebody says the V-word
I don't know why, but I actively avoid bringing this shit up with people IRL. I swear my friends an relatives say I'm a vegan dozens of times more than I do.
>select all the food >"try again" when I click on the violets Dammit, captcha, those are edible.
>>25563539 >Any other vegans on here who /self-conscious/? I was when I started. I've gotten more open about it and I'm a lot more comfortable bringing it up when it's relevant (I don't talk around the word when I'm eating out for example). Don't ever feel like it's a crime to care, anon. If you need some positive reinforcement I highly recommend Colleen Patrick-Goudreau's podcasts over on the joyfulvegan website.
The food thing is fucking ridiculous. The diet part of veganism doesn't include anything people don't eat, it just excludes some. >What are you baking, anon? >Brownies. Want some? >Aren't you vegan? >Yeah. >No thanks. Bitch do you not eat fucking grains, legumes, and chocolate? Black bean brownies are delicious.
>>25563539 >I'd be lying if I said Earthlings didn't drive the point home for me.
Kek. Earthlings is exactly the kind of pointless cherrypicked animal snuff movie that guilt-trips you into adhering to their "religion". The shit you see in that video is not the norm, and besides, the "food" part was by far the least atrocious out of the entire movie, especially if you consider that most of the slaughterhouse footage is cherrypicked from underdeveloped countries.
The worst one was the part about experimentation, but think about this, most of our medicine and medical techniques come from animal experimentation. Let's assume you get a serious illness that requires a medicine that was tested on animals, would you refuse it and die? I don't think you would.
>>25561516 >sister is actually a vegan because meat irritates her stomach (she has an actual medical condition, not just fad. she'd eat normally if she could.) >if she mentions it (so she's not served meat) people naturally assume she's one of these cunts unfortunate for her, since they are the majority.
>>25563618 That's what's honestly bothersome. On the one hand, yeah, I shouldn't and don't expect to be catered to. If my friends want to go out to eat someplace where nothing is vegan, I'll come along and drink coffee because I enjoy their company and just eat later.
But it's really not like people normally don't eat grains, fruit, nuts, legumes, and veggies. It's the most inclusive diet on the planet.
>>25563631 I'll admit that Earthlings is a bit cringey, but it's not like it made the whole case for me. My folks like to (constantly) tell the story about me finding out that chicken nuggets were animals when I was two and throwing a fucking fit, and as a kid, I had to be guilt-tripped and pestered to eat meat the way most kids need in order to eat brussels sprouts. It's something that I've honestly felt as far back as I can remember.
As for your other points, yeah, what's shown in the video is absolutely and undeniably the norm. Meat production on a scale as large as the one necessary to meet current demand is impossible without cruelty, and shit like "cage-free" is just a feel-good marketing scheme that means nothing and preys on people's consciences. Yes, every other person has a story about how they stayed at their uncle's ranch/grew up on a farm/etc. and didn't treat their animals like crap, but it's THAT which isn't the norm.
As for animal testing, I don't object to it where it's absolutely necessary, but I don't think that human vanity is worth torturing or killing animals over. Curing cancer? Fine. That's a necessary evil (which is, by the way, still evil in spite of being necessary). But I think we've got shampoo and makeup figured out.
He stopped smoking at least once a month. He went through with it like the solid citizen he was; admitted the evils of tobacco, encourageously made resolves, laid out plans to check the vice, tapered off his allowance of cigars, and expounded the pleasure of virtuousness to everyone he met. He did everything, in fact, except stop smoking." - S.Lewis
>>25563769 From a purely rational point of view, if it could be proven positively, multiple times, beyond the shadow of a doubt that they experience zero suffering, I'd be fine with eating mussels. That being said, I honestly don't like them, and people are constantly trying to fuck with me and poke holes in my ethics when they find out I'm a vegan, so I'd stick to my current diet just to avoid giving them anything with which to go, "SEE? SEE?! GOTCHA!"
>>25563800 It doesn't have to be, but it is. I have a serious thing for animals and always have. Again, I literally never bring it up IRL and talk around saying the V-word, but I do consider it a significant part of my identity, or at least as significant as I consider the fact that I'm not a murderer.
>>25563830 Yeah, I agree with you. I otherwise avoid them but that night was just different and I did used to really like mussels.
There's also the possibly that there was collateral damage with other fish during harvest and "THAT'S NOT VEGAN." in the way that palm oil isn't either.
I was just curious to how you saw it.
Surprisingly to me my sister though is the most annoying to me. I thought my dad or my hunter/gun nut friends would give me major shit for going vegetarian, and they haven't at all, they seem pretty "well it's your body and your life do what you want".
My sister is a liberal cunt who lives in LA. When she was home for Christmas I would be eating soup at a restaurant or something (I avoid beef broth at home mostly, but I'd I can't avoid it at a restaurant oh well, I barely go out anyway) she would like freak out and be like LOL YOU'RE EATING BEEF BROTH AREN'T YOU VEGAN while inhaling a steak or burger
>>25563935 I'd say you're a "flexitarian," but frankly, the adding of the suffix "-itarian" to fucking everything has started to annoy me.
And you shouldn't be surprised and gun nuts being cooler with you than a Cali liberal. It feels weird typing that as a tree-hugging hippie, but it's amazing how much concentrated douche is in Socal. And of course that douchiness comes with the hypocrisy you just outlined.
It's amazing how many people will attack you from a vantage point that they don't even support through their actions.
And guns are fucking awesome. Obviously, I wouldn't shoot an animal because I'm morally against it, but I've got no problem with Joe Redneck getting a 60-round beta mag and a bumpfire stock for his funz. Shit's fun and the government is evil.
>>25563773 >what's shown in the video is absolutely and undeniably the norm As a matter of fact that is not the norm.
>Meat production on a scale as large as the one necessary to meet current demand is impossible without cruelty
A necessary evil. Besides, for those animals living in a cage or in an animal farm is the norm. They don't know any better so they don't suffer a whole lot. Poultry for the most part doesn't give a fuck because their brains are underdeveloped, cattle on the other hand being mammals may mind their prisons a bit but like I said, it's the norm for them. If you were thrown in medieval living conditions you'd find that absolute hell, but if you were born in the middle ages that lifestyle would be the norm for you so you wouldn't mind it.
If you want to raise the point that food production is such a hige monster (don't think your vegetables don't breed suffering, ever thought about the underpaid workers in the fields, or the size of land that needs to be razed from trees and animals for cultivation?) because there are too many humans I agree, and that's why I recommend you to commit sudoku.
>>25564194 >As a matter of fact that is not the norm. I'm not going to have a back-and-forth "Nuh-uh!" "Ya-huh!" with you. Just saying that it isn't the norm doesn't make that true. And you even referenced the point supporting what I said in your greentext, calling it a "necessary evil."
Which it isn't, since meat is wholly unnecessary to pretty much everybody who doesn't have a salicylate allergy.
As for vegetables breeding suffering, I'll say this. Yes, animals and trees are killed by farming practices, but factory farming is exponentially more damaging to the environment (consumption of fresh water, pollution, etc.) on its own, and livestock do need to be fed. Just by merit of being less efficient in terms of how much farming needs to be done in order to produce a consumable calorie, animal products cause more suffering.
And I never advocated population reduction. You just put that into my mouth as a lead-in to the LOL KILL URSELF that you thought was so clever.
>>25564359 >if they hate living in a society that benefits from "animal cruelty" then nobody is stopping them from removing themselves from said society >with a gun if they hate living in a society that benefits from (INSERT ANY SOCIETAL EVIL HERE) then nobody is stopping them from removing themselves from said society
>>25564295 What about the pesticides? And we still don't know if GMOs are healthy or not. You obviously can't have large scale plantations with no way to protect the crops from insects and other critters. If we switched all meat eaters to vegan the world would be just as fucked as it is today if not even worse.
Like that anon said, animal cruelty or intensive farming isn't the root of the problem, but just a side effect. The cause of the problems is that there are too many humans.
>>25564381 I would argue that the problem with GMO's isn't that they're GMO's. It's that Monsanto is the twirly-moustachioed villain of the corporate world. I'm sure genetic engineering could be done more ethically and safely than it is.
And even if pesticides and GMO's are bad, the efficiency argument still holds up and flatly contradicts the idea that the world would be just as bad or worse if people switched over.
As for human population, yes, it's rapidly becoming a big fucking problem, but my point was that I had never brought it up and that was a clumsy and stupid lead-in to KILL URSELF FAGGOT.
>>25564017 I guess I mostly consider myself one of the ovo-lacto vegetarians. I have mostly cut out milk cause I found out I like nut milks better. I might cut out eggs too (the ethical shit behind eggs kind of bugs me honestly lol) cause I've learned how to cook vegetarian protein better.
And I really am not, I just found it funny considering how much of a carnivore my dad is. Then my sister texts me "lol I went to this diner here famous for their vegan options, I got a hamburger" okaaaay, I have one vegan food stand in my town congrats on that. But most of them are raging libertarians and mostly don't care as long as I don't start preaching to them, and they don't preach to me (one actually likes my vegan jerky)
My maim qualm is when I go hunting I don't know if I'm going to eat what I kill, if I even kill anything lol. I'd be worried about meat making me sick. There's some animals I have no real empathy for though, like I fucking hate coyotes, and boars are basically pests and reproduce like crazy.
Hunting is more of a skill I just want for a oh fucking shit case. A real oh fucking shit case.
>>25564481 1. We don't just eat soy. Some of us don't eat it at all. 2. Soya farms aren't just used to feed vegans. They're used to feed cattle. The Amazon, for instance, is being fucked over by soya farms used to feed cattle for McDonald's.
>>25564523 >lol I went to this diner here famous for their vegan options, I got a hamburger Being a douche for the sake of being a douche. Niiice.
> real oh fucking shit case Oh, it's coming at this rate. Welp, it's been fun, but the acid's starting to hit me pretty hard now and I think I'm gonna go lie down.
>>25564591 and vegans do what about this? oh thats right! fucking nothing! because theyre just one kind of the millions of armchair activists out there who are only willing to put so much effort into something that they allegedly believe in as is easy and enough to make them "stand out" from everyone else so they can jack off to their feeling of moral superiority and social consciousness
the world would be no less than what it is now if you and every other armchair activist hypocrite were to kill themselves and at least then your corpse would serve a purpose as fertilizer you sack of shit
>>25564707 We don't buy the meat that was raised on the soy that was farmed. So... we don't support the industry doing it. Wow, look at that.
No, really, what do you want me to do? Because I've radically altered the way I approach consumerism. I investigate the chemicals and processing used in my food. I call companies and ask about their supply chains. I avoid palm oil from Brazil and coconut sourced from monkey labour. I don't give money to the industry that thrives on cruelty and exploitation. I give money to charities and organizations that are exploring alternatives.
What do you want me to do? Join the ALF, throw buckets of red paint on people wearing leather and fur? Be a loud asshole about my ethics? Would it be easier to ignore me if I were an asshole and just write me off as "that vegan"? Fuck off.
>>25564359 Imagine America if every social movement left the country instead of pursuing change.
>>25563539 >You deserve another (You). aww shucks, it's more than I deserve.
You're good at arguing the point, but honestly, it's not worth it. It's like politics. Meat eaters gonna meat and ad hominem as long as animals remain tasty.
My belief/hope is that one day protein grown in vats will simply be an order of magnitude cheaper than regular meat. Then, all mass produced products will move to substitute proteins and we'll be left only with "premium" animal products which will hopefully be free range as a selling point anyway.
>>25564690 If you want to go veggie, or vegan it is totally your right and it's fine for you to do so and I'll even commend you for doing it. HOWEVER, rubbing it in peoples faces and getting off on how superior and morally right you are isn't cool.
Anyhow. not related to that post, my reason for being vegan is quite simply because I don't feel comfortable eating another living creature/ creature able to feel pain/ conscious creature/ whatever you want to call it (not to be confused with sapience).
At least as long as I don't have to for my own survival. If my survival was dependent on it, I'd even eat human.
I don't really see things in terms of moral or immoral, I only see what is and what consequence and implications different actions has and act on that. I don't consider my vegan choice a moral one.
there are vegans who are attention whores and who get stuck in a moral superior perspective. But I think quite a few vegans make an effort to make things better, the problem is just that they don't always have enough or the right information. This applies to most people, however, as the vast ocean of information can be difficult to swim through even when you try to be critical of everything.
I think in general, regardless of ideology, people tend to feel powerless to change things they consider shit, and this might turn into passiveness.
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