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>There are people who blame the entire...
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You are currently reading a thread in /r9k/ - ROBOT9001

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>There are people who blame the entire left for SJWs

>There are people that don't realize that true communists hate SJWs
>>
That was pre WWII when everyone hated that shit regardless of politics.
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>>25539883
>tfw leftism is dead
I'd be quite political, but it's a waste of time with so called 'socialists' today.

I don't know if it is exclusive to socialism though. Similar things are happening in other (otherwise reasonable) movements, like the Free Software movement.

I blame a lack of guidance and the prevelence of 'the enemy's truths'. People in Parties and Unions have started to believe western lies about the fesability of socialism. If you take away 90% of socialist teachings, all that's left is the wanky feminist shit that is supposed to be a minority.

A friend of mine is in the local 'Workers' party, and he was trying to tell me that Uber's removal of worker protections and lack of worker organisation was good for the worker. I was like, are you literally fucking me? What the fuck happened to even the simplest in socialist concepts? No wonder SJW shit is so prevelent. It's all that's left once you remove the logic.
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>>25539883
I realise this but I still don't agree with communism. Authoritarian ideology in general leaves too much room for abuse by the state. I think either a social democracy or a monarchy where the right to bear arms is protected are the two best forms of government, and communalism might be good but we need to wait on the kurdish revolution for that one.
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>>25540715
>an economic system decides whether you get to vote or not
Capitalism does not equal democracy.
Socialism does not equal dictatorship.

They are both independant concepts.

You can have authoritarian capitalism and democratic socialism.
>>
>>25540863
You need to learn some terminology you pinko fuck, social democracy is the current system; capitalist democracy with welfare. Also, Communism isn't an economic ideology. Socalism is the shared ownership of the means of production, Communism is an economic, social and political ideology. Go actually read some fucking Marx and Engels and Hegel before you make another le edgy gommunist post on here you larping cunt
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>>25539883
>w-we hate SJW's our oppinions are totally different
>except on gay-marriage, race, religion, wealth-redistribution, gender roles, abortion, sexual morality, culture, borders, education, economics, justice system and so on
>>
>>25539883
Believing and trying to spread a form of authoritarianism where the state is all powerful makes you the dumbest and worst kind of goyim.
>>
SJW is just a new/cultural approach to communism.
White people and men are the "privileged class".
Non-white people and women are the oppressed underclass.
>>
>>25540915
Go read my post before you mouth me off.
I didn't mention communism once.
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>>25541225
And I never claimed that Capitalism was democratic and socialism authoritarian you fucking twat, Communism is however an authoritarian ideology.
>>
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>>25539883

>no true Scotsman fallacy
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>>25540631
>>25540715

try leftypol m8s
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>>25541491
>monarchy
>leftypol

you mouthbreathing fuck
>>
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It's the current year and there are still communists around
>>
What I don't get is /pol/'s idea that if you're not a redpilled conservative, you're an SJW communist liberal or something. Like what the fuck? All I want is for the rich to share their wealth and make more jobs available for people like me who are on their last pennies. Fucking pigs won't even make more minimum wage jobs, instead they just push more and more responsibilities on those who are already working minimum wage. I don't support the left because all they do is tax the rich and hand that money to the poor without making them work. I don't support the right because they support the big money idiots who aren't giving me opportunities to work and make money. I hate both sides. Liberals are lazy, and conservatives are delusional, believing that the wealthy are still generous and making plenty of new jobs.
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>>25539883
Either today or yesterday I realised to have lots in common with Lenin. Lovely.
It's depresses me, considering that the idea of communism truly is admireable, it the very manifestation of an utopian government. However for an utopian society, hence it is prone to corruption. Besides people are not equal which makes it harder. Therefore at last we, the folks, are what makes the utopia.
In order to have a better world, with better policy, everything really, we would have to change the society and folk itself..
A shame.. I really want to see our motherland free of any filth and scum taht plagues it. To see true nations and genuine folks in their glory. Nurturing the many charms bestoved upon us.
But instead we're doomed for a cesspool.
That's why we have to strive for the better, refuse the lies of idiocy, shallowness and fake tolerance. Rationally, open mindedly and with hearts burning in passion for good and well being, strive towards the better.
Besides, what's the point of giving avarge sheep any influance over their shepherd, instead of being rams which do not need one at the first place.
huuh..
Strive for hapiness, love and fulfillment..
Just which paths do we have to take so the dream comes true.
>>
>>25541836
>What I don't get is /pol/'s idea that if you're not a redpilled conservative, you're an SJW communist liberal or something.
I've never spent any time on /pol/: the post
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>>25542017
>I've never disagreed with a Trumposter before
>I've never disagreed with someone who thinks Adam Smith is 100% correct
>I've never had an opinion that's directly opposite from the /pol/ hivemind
You.
>>
Seeing as commies directly endorsed that kind of shit to undermine western confidence in their own culture, I'd it's at least their fault. Doesn't matter if you hate them.
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>>25541836
Because even though what you want is reasonable, we will have to pay the hefty cost of more extreme SJW social politics for it, and I'd rather commit fucking suicide than let SJWs take over. The only person in American politics who will do anything to curtail the flood of non-whites is Trump. Of course, he won't really, but it's a nice middle finger to modern society.
>>
>>25542085
I'm >>25540915 this poster. I'm absolutely embarrassed for you. It must be awful to have such a tragically infantile view of the world.
>/pol/ need to stop labelling the left SJWs
>but everyone who doesn't agree with me is a fucking free marketer trump conservative redpill rich asshole!
lmao
>>
>>25542204
this. notice how commies never speak out against mass immigration? It's because they're more concerned with anti fascism than they actually are in keeping the proles employed and getting them a decent pay. Commies really are incredibly similar to SJWs, and there's massive overlap between the two. International women's day was a communist holiday.
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>>25542209
>but everyone

No, just /pol/. My parents are conservatives and they aren't mentally ill. My friends are conservatives and they aren't mentally ill. They have the wrong ideas at times that I won't support because they're too forgiving of today's upper-class, but they're not batshit insane.
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>>25542302
The fact that you actually, unironically consider /pol/ to be Conservative just shows how fucking stupid you are. It's not a person, but if it did have one unifying ideology it would be reactionary or fascist. Conservatives have only ever made up something like 10 or 15% of /pol/
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>>25540919
well yeah

I doubt many vocal SJWs who only really seem to give a shit about the media care about wearlth redistribution and economics etc. They are mostly teenage girls after all.

On a sidenote, who do people think a one-world government is a bad thing? Wouldn't that be the best thing ever? All the resorces on the earth being used by and for all the people on the earth. Seems like a good idea to me, regardless of the potential (inevitable) corruption and such.
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>>25542355
>SJWs don't care about wealth redistribution
Nobody is falling for your lies here, comrade.
>why do people think one world government is a bad thing?
Jesus Christ.
>>
>>25542342
Well maybe they should stop calling everyone who disagrees with them a liberal, and stop associating people like me with communists whose ideas are likely just as stupid as those of the most radical posters in /pol/. It's only natural that their habit of trying to redefine a word to be all-encompassing of half of the political spectrum will brush off on me, we're both on the same website and they crossboard like crazy. Besides, reactionaries were once known as conservatives, like during the Enlightenment revolutions.
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>>25542498
Honestly, your little angry rant about how awful it is being on minimum wage and how the rich are all greedy and evil was pretty stupid. You would make a great Communist.
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>>25542513
Fantastic how you ignored the fact that I was complaining about being no wage instead of minimum wage. Or maybe you're like /pol/ and twist the world to be the way you want to see it, so my posts suddenly say different things just to fit your narrative. I want $7.25/hour, and at least part-time. I want to work. But there's few jobs available and competition is fucking insane. Are you kidding me? Are you telling me that billionaires can't afford to make more minimum wage part-time jobs? I'm a student, I need to work.
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TFW consider myself a communist,
hatewhat the 'new left' has become,
I support nuclear weapons and a strong military,
I don't endorse drugs and think drug dealers should be shot.
I also think ISIS and religious terrorism needs to be wiped from the face of the Earth not pandered to.
>>
>>25539883
Muh true brand of gommunism... Fuck off commie bastard, SJW'S are literally a psy ops by the KGB...
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>>25539883
Fuck you, puny commie. Get Trumped, faggot! Make 'Murica great again!
>>
>>25542698

I don't support Nukes and a strong military but I hate political correctness, Mudslimes, feminists, Jews, and christians

I also think rape culture is a myth
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>>25542658
if you can't get a fucking 7 bucks an hour job you should just kill yourself honestly
>>
>>25539883
>>25542698
>being a commie

It's literally one step up from being a cuck

>hey let's share living space with all these fucking homeless poor people while the wealthy upper class relocates elsewhere
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>>25543418
>thinks we'll allow the upper class to relocate

hahahahaha you're implying you're free to go
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>>25542698
We're going to make it comrade.
Our land shall be merry once more.
The folk full of hapiness, love and fulfillment.
While the filth and scum purged with fire.
>>
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>>25541534
Nah senpai leftypol is kill now that hotwheels didn't migrate it over to the new servers on infinity.
Bunkerchan is where its at
Praise hoxha
>>
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>>25543520
*Innocent people will be purged with gunfire cause i don't like how they think*
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>>25543440
Yeah because if you're wealthy enough to make a difference you won't be able to get that information. Communism is for peasants and degenerates only. Retard.
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>>25543551
No! by the filth and scum I have in mind only majority of people, You know, the shallow retards and who not.
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>>25543440
>peasant farmers think they can catch me while I am riding my bugatti.

nick try wage cuck, keep dreaming
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>>25543389
Yeah, let's allow the big money to continue consolidating responsibility to some minimum wage workers while getting rid of others, let's wreck our employment rates even more. Let's find it acceptable for the big money to be pocketing billions, and find it acceptable for all of the American peoples' tax money, big money included, to be going toward NEETs and niggers who are unwilling to work, and find it acceptable for there to be people unable to find a job despite looking desperately for one. Let's continue to find it acceptable to push for a living wage when hundreds of thousands still have no wage and are looking for one. Let's keep replacing human workers with machines. Because apparently our society is just fine and it's my fault that I can't find a job.
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>>25539883
>There are people that don't realize that true communists hate SJWs

You don't seem to know an awful lot about communism then.

SJW, the destruction of the family, patriarchy. All of that has been on the communist agenda since the very start as it makes the communist revolution much easier.
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>>25539883
>Failed do-gooders

Considering how efficient and effective every government on the planet has been with humans/resource cost vs. total gain. I will stick with Republican Capitalism. A strong government with strong protections. Yet not overbearing.
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>>25543599
pretty much, you're just a failure and have turned your failure into ideology to cope.
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>>25543721
I'm not a failure because I have marketable traits. I have a clean criminal record. I've only accidentally consumed alcohol while under the age of 21, and have never touched an illegal drug. I have a 4.0 GPA. I had a 4.75 weighted GPA in high school. My time-management is supreme. I have a teacher who can confirm this as a reference. I've had temporary paid job training before through a program from my high school and was given high praise by my employer throughout the training. I even use them as a reference. I have an autistic brother who shows what my family is capable of. I was denied by his employer who was hiring. I make myself available on holidays and weekends for all day. I follow all interview advice. But I still don't have a job. There is no way that it's my fault.
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>>25539883
As someone who grew up in a communist country I hope you die a slow, painful and early death
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>>25539883
SJWs are post-modern products of american liberalism.
True communist ethic is basically Sartre's existentialism. SJWs are just a reaction of people who are lost without markers due to the end of modernism and that of reasons' reign. They try to create new markers with all these new communautarianisms to avoid the void of this identity crisis born of the end of the modern era, but instead of giving a meaning of their own to life, they let those communities as a concept to bear the burden of identity instead of themselves. As such, they are not defined by who they are and what they do, but they are defined by their ethnic or cultural belonging, which is pretty much western essentialism at its finest. They're pretty much dooming themselves to a life of stereotypes because they prefer to let communities as a concept to give them an identity. You're not a human being anymore, you're a trans, or black, or asian, or gay, or cis. You're not sharing the concept of humanity with other beings, you're creating more strife between humans by using reactionary rethoric for your "identity" to strive (kinda like some people do in the US or Europe, like Identitarians in France.)
SJWs aren't revolutionaries, they're basically reactionaries and conservatives in disguise who should strive to build themselves not based on origins or social groups, but on what they do, their own acts.
Sartre's existentialism is the left's best and ultimate answer to SJWs.
>>
>>25541971
r e a d
S a r t r e

As long as you believe in the good in human beings then there's always hope. Because if you are capable of thinking this, then why wouldn't other people be able to think the same?
Read on intersubjectivity, it's pretty much at the root of all social activity, even revolution.
>>
>>25543603
>Frankfurt School
please leave and don't turn back
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>>25544105
lol bet you were hogging all the crops to yourself.

fuck off greedy pig
>>
Conservatives, Stormfags, lolbertarians, Jihadists, and SJWs all need to be purged
>>
>>25539883
>there are people who post /pol/ threads on /r9k/
>there are communists in CURRENT YEAR
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>>25539883
>true communists
So which communists are exactly true? I know Mao thought he was "more true" than Lenin.
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>>25545361
Mao >>>>> USSR

that was before Deng Xiaoping happened though.
>>
true communism hates everything but communism. I know it because i am communist and i hate everything, even myself.
Fuck everything but communism
>>
>>25545411
In the terror and amount of people killed I suppose
>>
>>25541079
SJW is a way to detract from the material world and plunge the leftists into fruitless debates about things that really do not matter and therefore do not threaten the capitalism.

When you discuss the underlying relationships between laborers, labor and capital owners, the conclusion is that laborers are not fairly compensated for their labor because such compensation goes against the interests of the capitalists.

For a worker to be properly compensated, a worker's collective must be formed.
>>
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One day comrade, we will put identity politics to the trash.
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>>25545454
stfu ivan
>>
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>every attempt at communism killed millions of innocent workers or at the very least turned the country into an utter shithole for decades to come
>but the next time we try it its totally gonna be Utopia!
>>
>>25543418
>taking away all the rich Stacy and Chad's possessions and wealth and forcing them to leave the country
I'm OK with this
>>
>>25545553
>implying Cuba haven't improved after the revolution
>>
I like conservative communists, but surely everyone has to admit what happened in the soviet union and satellites went way too far and probably wasn't a coincidence

social democracy with a strong government and restrictive franchise is probably best
>>
>>25545553
It's not like capitalism has a clean slate with the slave trade, imperialism, oil wars, etc.
Most of the countries (if not all) were remarkably shit before communism was introduced (especially Russia).
Communism turned Russia from a serf/agricultural economy based country into a nuclear super power in the span of 60 years. That fact is incredible on it's own.
>>
>>25545734
going by those standards western imperialism did the same thing short of nuclear power in a possibly shorter span of time

the command economy is full of horror stories and their poor performance made them inferior in productivity to the capitalist economies of the time. Not to mention the insane death counts associated with industrialization.

so I feel that you might be exaggerating when you say things like that
>>
>>25539883
doesn't matter you're still dumb as shit. Communism CAN'T work because it demands complete equality, but each person has reasons to act on their own accord and out of greed. The unity for the good of the country thing only works if humans have no greed or self worth.
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>There are people who think Lenin wasn't a counterrevolutionary

>There are people who think he was a true communist and not an opportunist who ruined everything
>>
>>25545887
"cooperation don't work so we're better off all fighting and being divided among each other"

just gonna reform teh evil capitalism with ron paul right
>>
Capitalism is essentially basing your economy on the assumption that people are basically greedy and self-interested, and therefore we should use competition between them to generate wealth. As depressing as that assumption is, I think it's far more correct than the assumption of socialism and communism, which is that people are basically altruistic and therefore we should use cooperation between them, through a government, to generate wealth.
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>>25545950
>tfw Anarcho-Communist reading this thread of debunked arguments and ignorant bullshit from people who have no idea what they're on about
>>
>>25545996
whenever somebody uses the word altruism you can tell they're a huge faggot
>>
>>25545981
Actually I'm a Libertarian, so yes. Fend for yourself as much as possible, but if you're in DESPERATE need then the government may step in, but preferrably a private organization.

>>25546006
>anarcho-communist

So..you contradict yourself?
>>
>>25545553
What about Yugoslavia. Socialism worked quite well until ethnic tensions tore it apart.
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>>25546059
>So..you contradict yourself?
you're a fucking idiot dude open a book
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>>25545734

Wow. You literally defend the millions of people who died to russian communism for some petty nuclear super power shit that has nothing to do with the well-being of the people?

The country is an utter shithole, the Amerifats also got more than enough nukes and are way better of due to capitalism.
>>
>>25546059
>being this uneducated
go read a book, preferable Anarchist-Communist Principles by Kropotkin.

>>25545996
>"To look at people in capitalist society and conclude that human nature is egoism, is like looking at people in a factory where pollution is destroying their lungs and saying that it is human nature to cough." - Andrew Collier
>>
>>25546059
>So..you contradict yourself?
Please discontinue that meme. Anarchism implies the strength of the state, while Communism implies a level social system. They can, and do, go together quite logically.
>>
>>25546117

>my funny quote beats all empirical data that shows capitalism is vastly superior
>my magic commie government will not shit on human rights although it happened pretty much every time before
>my magic commie government will get the 5 year plans right although it has never worked before
>>
>>25546020
That's basically what it is, no? They're figuring that people are altruistic in the sense that they care about others, enough to willingly give up their wealth and labor to benefit others.

>>25546117
It's human nature to want power over others. Socialism and communism just kick the ways to do that around a little bit. Instead of ownership of wealth, it's positions of leadership in government.
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>>25546182
>Kropotkin
>government
read a book
>>
>>25546182
>commie
>state
pick one nerd, not all communism is Leninism.

>>25546194
>human nature to want power over others
Socialism gives the worker's more power over their work place, because it's simply collective ownership of the means of production - nothing else.
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>>25546194
It's not the meaning of the word, it's the word. Nobody says altruism except for neckbeard ayncrappers.
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>>25546091
>anarchy = no laws
>communism = tons of laws

are you euphoric in this moment too?
>>
>>25546232

And do you really think your "ownership of the means of production" meme will improve the lives of the workers?

Why did it never work in the past?

Why dont you buy stocks of your employer if you want to own the means of production?
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>>25546269
unbelievable dude
you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, but you're giving your opinion anyway
you're an incredible and beautiful example of human determination and ingenuity
>>
>>25546232
You'll never have a world without a state, because there will always be some people that disagree with the way you want society to be run. Either you need some organization to hear disputes and provide the means for people of differing opinions to get together and make binding decisions about how things ought to be, which implies a need for politics, and a state, or you need some type of organized security force to find these people and either remove them or compel their compliance with your order, which also implies a state.

>"nah brah everyone's gonna agree that this is totally the best way to do things"
that has never happened in the history of the human race. Why would it happen now?
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>>25546288
>Why did it never work in the past?
Socialism has worked, see: Paris Commune, Anarchist Catalonia.

>Why dont you buy stocks of your employer if you want to own the means of production?
That's not the point, the point is that it is your right to own the fruits of your labour and have every say in something that effects what happens to the fruits of your labour.
>>
>>25541388
>I am poiint out le fallacy so I win and u r rong
>>>/reddit/
>>
It's true, the left has turned into the party of minority special interests and fails to even have a socialist platform.
>>
>>25539883
This is all legitimately your fault for pandering with identity politics bullshit and pushing a culture of victimhood.
>>
>>25546100
I merely stated the fact that the Russian economy made a huge boost thanks to communism. I found that incredible.
I did not defend the deaths of millions of people, that's your interpretation.

>>25545841
Fwiw I'm not a communist. I recognize it has a nick for totalitarianism. I do, however, agree with a lot of socialism/communism principles. For example, I think that worker control of the workplace is essential for the growth of a more humane society. It stops the exploitation of workers and the earth's resources.
Standards such as the GDP or productivity are poor measurements for the well-being of a country and more importantly it's citizens in my opinion.. If anything I'm more of an anarcho-syndicalist although I'm not sure on that either. Still developing my political stance I guess.
>>
>>25546339
Organisation does not equal state.
>State, The
The collected institutions that create and enforce laws created by a small minority of people within a given territory. Through laws the state claims that only it has the right to grant the use of violence. The state uses the law to justify and protect a capitalist economy.
Organisation through direct democracy is possible and has been achieved in societies and in various political bodies of the past, such as some unions (IWW) and of course the soviets prior Lenin were run in direct democracies.
>>
>>25546339
>You'll never have a world without a state, because there will always be some people that disagree with the way you want society to be run.
this is a really stupid argument because if you remove the fact that it's relevant for today you can say it about literally anything
>you can't abolish slavery because there'll always be people who disagree with you
>>
>>25546348

>That's not the point, the point is that it is your right to own the fruits of your labour

Thats why you get money for doing your job. Do you want to work in a car company and only get a car once a year as payment? If your socialist dream includes money, its the very same shit.

>and have every say in something that effects what happens to the fruits of your labour.

Buying a stock means you have a say. Starting your own business means you have every say.

You also ignored the question if people will be better of, we both know they wont.
>>
>>25546308
then please explain what you meant and you can enlighten me as well
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>>25546432
You get money (the wage), but the amount of money you get and have a say in is not the full amount which you are producing, this is why it is exploitation and why the capitalist can have a profit. If the capitalist gave the worker control over full value of what was being produced by the workers themselves, the capitalist would be obsolete. Also, wage-labour is slavery, and because I cba summing it up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oztdRo9GLLk

Also i think it's worth noting that most people can't just start their own businesses or buy stocks, considering millions of people live barely above the poverty line because their employers are paying them the lowest possible wages so that they can scrape a profit.
>>
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>>25546432
>just be a cuck to your boss
>lick his boots and let him decide whether you live or die
>maybe one day you can be a boss and abuse your own employees
>freedom
>>
>>25543899
Take responsibility for your self and realize you are the reason you are unemployed...probs your shit self entitled attitude
>>
>>25546432
People will be better off, people were better off in Anarchist Catalonia, in the Free State, and in the Paris Commune. Quality of life (especially in Catalonia) increased dramatically after socialism was created and, despite the civil war, productivity boomed.
>>
>>25546348
>That's not the point, the point is that it is your right to own the fruits of your labour and have every say in something that effects what happens to the fruits of your labour.

So I, through my own labor, make a widget. As I read your statement, that means that I have the right to determine what happens to that widget, since I made it. Do I have the right to sell that widget? Maybe I don't need a widget, but I need a gizmo, and I can't make gizmos. Can I go over to the guy who makes gizmos and say "Hey, I'll trade you"?

Because if I have the right to sell the fruits of my labor, then we're just back at where we are today - people engaging in work-for-hire for an employer, in exchange for some kind of compensation.

>>25546496
We're back to that murky swamp of the labor theory of value again, aren't we. There isn't an objective way to determine what something, or some given amount of labor is "worth". All there is is "what is someone else willing to pay in exchange for it".

>>25546421
>only it has the right to grant the use of violence
So does everybody have the right to use violence in your system? If someone does so contrary to the rules of the system, who has the right to punish them?
>>
>>25546495
anarchy means no rulers
a boss is a ruler
capitalism isn't anarchistic
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>>25539883
>There are people who blame the entire left for SJWs

Well gee, I wonder why
Protip: Because they are to blame, faggot.
Also, communism is retarded anyway, even in theory.
>>
>>25546496

and why should the capitalist give the workers his means of production for free? Cuz hes a nice guy? Sounds more like a cuck

Slavery means another human being owns you. If you are alone, you will die if you dont work. Theres no slaver here. Getting a job voluntarily to survive is not slavery. Forcing someone else to work so you dont have to work is slavery. Fuck off commie scum.
>>
>>25546528
Firstly, you cannot determine how much something is worth, and I didn't claim you could. That is why a Communist society would be moneyless, because the value would be determined by the collectives and communes by how they saw fit.
Secondly, sorry I screwed up green-text by accident, lol, it's mean to be
>State, The
>The collected institutions that create and enforce laws created by a small minority of people within a given territory. Through laws the state claims that only it has the right to grant the use of violence. The state uses the law to justify and protect a capitalist economy.
And yes, everybody has the right to use violence against their oppressors, but in a Communist society where there are no classes, nor oppressive or exploitative structures (such as the state and capitalism) violence would be irrelevant.

Finally, yes you do have a right trade so long as you're only exploiting yourself.
>>
Reminder that the only good ideology in existence is Classical Liberalism

It's basically conservatism minus the autism
>>
>>25546558
>that picture
Thanks for reminding me about the Freedom Fries meme.
>>
>>25546588
>Slavery means another human being owns you
if they just own your labour there's no practical difference
>If you are alone, you will die if you dont work. Theres no slaver here.
you won't die if your work isn't stolen by a boss
>Getting a job voluntarily to survive is not slavery.
if your only options are to suck my dick or die then that's not rape
if your only options are work the plantation for massa or die then that's not slavery
>Forcing someone else to work so you dont have to work is slavery.
I agree, that's why capitalism is so bad
>>
>>25546588
The capitalist should give the worker's his means of production, because it's better than a violent revolution where he gets put to the wall.

And to your second point, they do own you. You have to receive a wage or you starve, so logically you do anything to receive this wage - much like a slave must do anything their master says or they risk being put to death. If the wage-earner does not receive his wage, he starves and freezes to death
>>
>>25546528
>There isn't an objective way to determine what something, or some given amount of labor is "worth". All there is is "what is someone else willing to pay in exchange for it".
Yes, exchange- and use-value. It's the subject of the first chapters of Capital. A very interesting read.
Here's a quick summary:
https://youtu.be/zwuMrd_Hgww?t=3m23s
>>
>>25546667
>>25546670

Fuck off you goddamn retards. If you sit alone on an island with no other being, you have to work or you will starve. Is that slavery? Who is the slaver?

You are free not to work in a capitalist society and then die, just like if you were alone.

Forcing other people to work for you is slavery.
You either die by doing nothing, work or force someone else to work for you, even in your commie retard dreams.
>>
>>25546770
but on an island yu're working for yourself and not a boss who has violent institutions in his power
also that's a naturalistic fallacy
>Forcing other people to work for you is slavery.
again I'm glad we agree that capitalism really isn't any better than slavery
>>
>>25546604
>That is why a Communist society would be moneyless, because the value would be determined by the collectives and communes by how they saw fit.
money is just a means to quantify trade. Is my chicken worth less than, the same as, or more than, your sack of potatoes? By how much? How do we keep track of accounts so that if you need a chicken and I give mine to you, you know how much to give back to me later?

>>25546670
the capitalist kills people to steal their wealth. so you kill the capitalist to steal his wealth. how are you different, again?

>>25546770
what if others work for me voluntarily?
Suppose I, through my own labor, manage to make a hundred thousand dollars. I then give loans to people and stop working, living off the interest. There's no coercion, just a voluntary agreement of "I need money now, so if you give it to me, I'll pay you back more money later". Or do the commies ITT propose to ban the practice of loaning money (or other things of value, same difference)? If so, then how do I still have the right to do as I see fit with the fruits of my labor?
>>
>>25546804

No one forces you to work in capitalistic countries you goddamn retard. Your "muh oppression by boss" doesnt change the definition of slavery.

You are FREE to VOLUNTARILY work in capitalist societies. You can also START YOUR OWN BUSINESS AND HAVE NO BOSS.
>>
>>25546076
Yeah, life in Yugoslavia was better than it is now for most ex-yu countries
>>
>>25539883
Who /centrist/ here?

>Waiting until some Bernie/Trump Hybrid runs for President.
>>
You're all fucking kike puppets
>>
>>25546897
>the capitalist kills people to steal their wealth. so you kill the capitalist to steal his wealth. how are you different, again?
why is self defence justified and not assault?
>what if others work for me voluntarily?
>Suppose I, through my own labor, manage to make a hundred thousand dollars. I then give loans to people and stop working, living off the interest. There's no coercion, just a voluntary agreement of "I need money now, so if you give it to me, I'll pay you back more money later". Or do the commies ITT propose to ban the practice of loaning money (or other things of value, same difference)? If so, then how do I still have the right to do as I see fit with the fruits of my labor?
First of all, a little kid voluntarily walks into an unmarked white van. Convincing people that something is right doesn't make it right, no successful thief or exploiter would choose the threat of dissent over their victims being oblivious. When the exploited don't know that they're exploitedm the exploiters don't need to get their hands dirty and everything runs smoothly. Secondly, you don't make money through your own labour, it has to be given to you by a boss.
>>
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>>25539883
You are correct, OP. However reactionary scum will try to conflate the two as a propaganda tactic.
>>
>>25546935
>No one forces you to work in slavery countries you goddamn retard. Your "muh oppression by master" doesnt change the definition of slavery.
>You are FREE to VOLUNTARILY work in slavery societies. You can also EARN THE RESPECT OF YOUR MASTER AND HAVE NO MASTER.
>>
>>25542698
identity politics is not leftism

it's liberalism or conservatism or reaction, but by definition it cannot be materialist
>>
>>25547032
>why is self defence justified and not assault?
In some places, it isn't.

>Convincing people that something is right doesn't make it right, no successful thief or exploiter would choose the threat of dissent over their victims being oblivious. When the exploited don't know that they're exploitedm the exploiters don't need to get their hands dirty and everything runs smoothly.
so how do I know that what you say is true? You could be an exploiter.
>>
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>>25539883
Fuck off, faggot. If you actually read any classical leftist literature you'd know that they were as much SJW cucks as they are today, the only difference is their degeneracy wasn't fully developed.
>>
>>25546091
>>25546117

You have been muted for 2 seconds, because your comment was too low in content (0.00% content).

niggers
>>
>>25547115
>In some places, it isn't.
because oppression depends on violence, the violence of the oppressed is always justified
>so how do I know that what you say is true? You could be an exploiter.
what power over you do I gain from this?
>>
>>25547073

>voluntarily taking a job that you can quit any time
>slavery
>not slavery if I 10 potatoes instead of money
>but Im entitled to steal machines from the evil capitalist and thats not slavery

>not working on a lonely island and dying is not slavery
>not working in a capitalist country and dying is slavery

Sure thing, commiebros. HF being one of the million famine victims when you try it next time, at least you will "own" the little food you farm for yourself before you die.
>>
>>25547218
when has there been anything except for an increase in production during an anarchist revolution?
>>
Well anon, the right is stuck with always being associated with Fascists and Nazis. It is only fair the left also carry a label for their retards.
>>
>>25547174
>>what power over you do I gain from this?
you gain my trust. If you say many things, and convince me that you speak the truth, then I'm more likely to either a.) believe an untruth that you subsequently slip in, or b.) not critically examine other things you say after a while, and follow you blindly.
>>
>>25547356
if you preach rationalism and free and critical thought people aren't just going to go along with everything you say.
>>
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>>25545553
>every attempt at communism killed millions

nice reduction of history memebrain

revolutions are the product of highly volatile conditions, such as poverty, famine, the collapse of an administration, the break down of social order, etc. etc. revolutions almost always lead to civil wars. war is bloody. conflict between revolutionaries and reactionaries, and within these groups, leads to more conflict and bloodshed. the attempt to create a stable government - communist or otherwise - in the wake of this kind of upheaval is incredibly difficult, and often leads to mismanagement or excessively punitive measures taken by the government. to reduce all these factors to "try communism = get killed" is reductionist horseshit. opposition to communism is no guarantee of peace and stability. just look at indonesian killings of 1965-66 and other anti-communist purges. in 20th century conflict between communist and anti-communist regimes, anti-communist regimes have just as bloody a track record.
>>
>>25547401

Nice cutting my sentence off at the middle commie

Did some other worker get his share of my sentence and you couldnt read it to the end?
>>
>>25539883

>"all animals are equal but some animals are more equal and others"

>"everyone is equal but women are more equal than men"

it's the same narrative

cultrual marxism has the same issue of regular marxism
>>
>>25547471
Orwell was a marxist you fucking retard
he fought with the Worker's Party of Marxist Unification
>>
>>25541551
good shooting practice
>>
Communism/Leftism: True mans ideology. Want to better the world without identity politics. Simply want everyone to be equal

SJWism/New Left/Regressive Left: Ideology for people who want to be special snowflakes, revolves around capitalism and is pro capitalist

Liberalism: Normal ideology for people who are somewhat concerned for society but still don't care. Pro capitalism but Social Capitalism

Moderate: Ideology for fedoras that try to act like both sides are equally bad

Conservatism: Ideology for old people, inbreds, and people with insecurity issues

Libertarianism: Ideology for pedophiles, serial killers, Manchildren, and tinfoils

Fascism: Once an ideology for mentally ill people, now an ideology for edgy 12 year olds on the internet or criminals who spent too much time in prison
>>
Protip: Watch the Yuri Bezmenov interview. He explains why the KGB infiltrated US universities with communists.
>>
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>>25547454
the rest of your sentence doesn't negate what i said at all

civil war and revolution fucks a country up badly, often for decades

given this fact, some of the successes of communism are more remarkable than its failures

the bolsheviks for example succeeded in turning russia from a feudal, illiterate backwater into a heavily industrialized nation with space-faring technology, and all this in the wake of an incredibly destructive revolution, civil war and world war
>>
>>25547471
orwell described himself as a trotskyist
>>
>>25547495

yet he understood how dangerous that kind of thinking was.
>>
>>25547614
he understood how dangerous stalinism was
>>
>being unironically communist
>not wanting to be Scandinavian-style socialist
>>
>>25547614
the dangers of what? marxism? socialism? because he was an adherent of form of both.
>>
>>25547633
>thinking welfare capitalism is socialist

>>>/reddit/
>>
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can't wait for your revolution so you can be executed like a rat tbqh
>>
why do leftypol specifically likes hoxha?
>>
>>25547967
bunker memes
>>
>>25547967
I don't browse leftypol because I hate cancerchan
>>
>>25547967
because he's absolutely bunkers
>>
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Reminder /pol/, It's not us who are being played as fools. It's you.
>>
>>25548032
"Those capitalists are living large off the fruits of our labor!"

the solution to this isn't to try and overthrow them but to become one of them

t. /biz/
>>
>>25543374
I'm with you familiare
We are not alone
>>
>>25542698
>I support nuclear weapons and a strong military,
Pretty dumb desu. Our military spending is one of the most idiotic things to exist. Higher than like 23 allies combined? What a fucking joke.

> I don't endorse drugs and think drug dealers should be shot
Grown adults should be allowed to do whatever they want. Sure, make shit like crocodile illegal but seriously take the kid gloves off. The only reasons the "war on drugs" is still a thing is
A) the DEA would lose all it's jobs
B) the drug kingpins make their money off the fact that drugs are illegal.

>I also think ISIS and religious terrorism needs to be wiped from the face of the Earth not pandered to.
At least we can agree on something. They should all be executed without remorse. They lost their right to be considered human after taking the lives of innocents for no reason other than "Muh god is better than your god"
>>
>>25542355
>All the resorces on the earth being used by and for all the people on the earth
Oh god, the retardation.
They're already being used. We have something called international trade you know.
>as if the US voters aren't dumb enough we need to give our power to the dumbest retards in Africa, South America, India, and the Islamic world because equality n shit
>>
>>25548032
>>25548102
>literally just replacing a jew with an image of a fat pig
wow, so brave, at last I truly see.
>>
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>lefties trying to get /r9k/ support
Please do.
These people are just awful and only an annoyance on /pol/ with their whining and defeatism.
>>
>>25548737
>says the guy browsing [r9k]
Don't you have some Evola to read one chapter into, fail to understand and then tell everyone that you read Evola or something
>>
Communism implies another man can provide for me. Which is simply not true, i will be providing for them irregardless of how much i hate them, or the fact they cannot ever hope to output as much as i can
Anti-robot ideology if there ever was one, might as well adopt Chad's bastard
>>
>>25539883
I like socialism (in terms of the gov. helping people who need help) but I don't agree with the cultural part of todays socialist/leftist partys.
I don't like the idea of communism too. I want freedom about my education, work and family. Besides that communism is dead in every country that's not a uncivilized shithole today.

Also I'm too nationalistic to support todays left. I know it sounds edgy but some kind of national socialism would be perfect for me. Not Nazi national socialism, I don't want millions to be killed in a war or concentration camp.
I like the idea of an authoritarian state that cares about it's people and supports the poor financially and tries to make them a part of society. Todays capitalism is fucked up (just watch some documentaries and videos about the world banks etc and money in general).
The nationalistic part is hard though today, but I just hate this multicultural/SJW crap from todays left.
Thank god I don't live in the US where both parties are money controlled puppets. Both Trump and Sanders seem to dislike this though, so theres maybe some change in the future, unless idiots vote Clinton.
>>
>>25548813
truly the current system is the best for robots. I live in the UK and you get 200GBP a month unemployment, bumping up to 400 a month if you're depressed and 1000 if you have the 'tism. I've never understood all the revolutionary sentiment on here. Other than all the fucking brown people they keep letting in it's pretty great.
>>
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there is absoIutely no reason for an adult working class male not to support the science of marxism-leninism
>>
>>25549034
>implying you're even working class and not some middle class bellend
>>
>>25548102
reminder that upward mobility is a myth
>>
>>25539883
Identity politics is a bourgeois plot to make people hate liberalism.
>>
>>25549062
my mum was born in a slum and my dad a farm worker and we're now all comfortably square of middle class. go fuck yourself pinko.
>>
>>25549086
You'll never become a bourg though. Ultimately that's what capitalism tries to sell you: "You too can become the next Mark Zuckerberg!"
what a load of bullshit.
>>
>>25549821
I don't want to be a billionaire though.
>>
>>25549069
>Identity politics is a bourgeois plot to make people hate liberalism.
prove it, pham
>>
>>25549836
And honestly who wants to? No one wants to be one, but we're made to think that having money is the greatest achievement in life, which is honestly a big joke.
>>
>>25547506
>true man
>desires "equality"

that's an unusual way of spelling woman
>>
>>25549881
that's nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with the human condition. you can live within capitalism and not be reduced to petty materialism. I'd honestly rather live in a system of plenty and have to worry about people falling into debt or overindulging themselves than live in a society where famine and clothing yourself are serious concerns. you're romanticising scarcity and it's a terrible, dangerous mistake.
>>
>>25549923
>you're romanticising scarcity and it's a terrible, dangerous mistake
I'm just pointing out the fact that you don't need Lamborghinis and Apple stock shares to live. The problem is that in this "system of plenty", not only we mistake ourselves about what is precisely "plenty" (cars? Food?), but also plenty is not necessarily available to everyone to begin with.

>you can live within capitalism and not be reduced to petty materialism
Just look at the amount of households living in poverty. It's depressing. http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2015/demo/p60-252.pdf
"In 2014, the official poverty rate was 14.8 percent. There were 46.7 million people in poverty. "
>>
>>25550122
>food?
Yes. Food. There is plenty of food and it's amazing. We have a fucking obesity crisis, mate. We're worried for the nation because the "poor, downtrodden, oppressed" working class have so much fucking food that they're becoming obese.
>poverty
How many of those people in poverty have electricity, running water and food? I'd wager a substantial amount of them.
>>
really, the world we should be working towards is not one where everyone must work if he wants to eat, but one where nobody needs to work in order to eat.
>>
>>25539883
Lol, I probably would have been considered a leftist at one point in time, but nowadays living in Europe I'm considered far right, it's fucking crazy.
>>
>>25550193
I'm a NEET and have plenty of food, I honestly have no idea why you faggots complain all the time
>>
>>25550193
so...robotic farmers?
>>
>>25542355
>who do people think a one-world government is a bad thing?
There literally isn't enough shit in the world, communism isn't bringing everyone up to western levels, it's lowering everyone to africa levels.
>>
>>25550262
pretty much
self-driving car + combine harvester
>>
>>25541971
>chsndi
lrn2cyrillic
>>
>>25550273
>he actually believes this

>muh white race
>>
>>25550459
what the fuck are you on about?

kiguiuhjklihi
>>
>>25550742
ur probs a stormfag
>>
>>25550891
>pointing out the flaws in communism makes you a stormfag
literally like half of the world are stormfags then you dolt
>>
>>25550924
That would make people like Mises, Rothbard and Ayn Rand stormfags, and stormfags hate them so yes, leftytard here is an idiot.
>>
>>25549034
>science

"I feel this is wrong" is not science. Feel free to actually try to formulate and PROVE the hypothesis though.
>>
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>>25551103
Read something, read the classics (Marx, Engels, Lenin & Stalin) you fuck.
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