Yet another thread whining about /jp/

Since I already got the autism going, I'll complain about a couple things more. First one is the JAV and gravure generals. Due to the very nature of JAV, the thread sometimes breaks Global Rule 5, but most importantly, these threads constantly break Global Rule 16. People on these constantly ask for recommendations and sources on JAV actresses. Basically the only "discussion" going on here is asking for recommendations and posting selfies of actresses. There already exist recurring JAV threads on /hc/ and /gif/, so having this one here seems redundant. As for gravure, the threads are just image dumps and should go on /s/.

And speaking of image dumps, my last complaint is about Touhou image dumps. I'm a Touhou fan myself, but there are many threads that are simple imagedumps with very little discussion (and that discussion is mostly roleplaying stuff) of a determined character which are suited more for /e/ or /c/ depending on the grade of lewdness.

That was all. I don't expect a mod to read this since honestly if I was a mod I would ignore /qa/, but I just wanted to vent and the recent issues with DJT inspired me. I really care about the board and it's a bit disheartening to feel that the guys up there only care about it as a repository for generals that bother other boards. The janitor does a good job deleting /pol/ shit and other forms of shitposting but it still feels as if the opinion of a /jp/ user is worth less than the user's of another board.

(Also as a last point I would like to say that the most recent mod post on /jp/ was on the monster girl general https://warosu.org/jp/thread/S15525580#p15537291)

I agree, but as you said yourself, there's not much point in complaining on /qa/. I suggest you contact the mods through the IRC channel.

>>877200
I tried to but got ignored. Is there any mod that favors /jp/?

Also IRC isn't really the place to post long winded thoughts like these

>>877181
Since you're on the subject, a mod is harassing buyfag threads and other "generals" on /a/ and trying to get them to move, some people suggesting to move to /jp/ or /toy/

>>877184
>and that discussion is mostly roleplaying stuff
/jp/ - Chatroom generals and poorly disguised roleplaying threads

>>877228
That's the one I messaged and he ignored me

I resisted the idea for years, but the jig is up. There really should just be a fucking /jpg/ instead of all this fucking waffling about.

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>>877251
I messaged him on Monday. Unless he hasn't got online in the entire week he's just ignoring me.
By the way, this is what I sent him

>>877266
Why not /png/?

I just have trouble caring any more when it's still routine for mods to dump anything unwanted onto /jp/ while image dumps crowd most real threads.
DJT is now protected /jp/ culture just like the 35 other generals. There's no room to object because 1%of "/jp/" users, if that, post outside of the generals and we're just too weak to make any difference.

Give me your phoneposters, your teenagers, your blogging masses yearning to shitpost, the wretched cancer of your teeming board.

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>>877181
Why didn't you guys stay on /int/ again?

>>877294
Which is the non retard faction here?

>>877266
We need a /2d/ as a new /jp/ that actually tries to be like old /jp/ aka Nijiura 2.0.

>>877332
[s4s]

Multiple of the mods in the IRC channel seem to be very familiar with /jp/ memes, including old /jp/ culture.
However, they only do so much when you ask them for help.

>>877512
moot was the same way and it didn't stop him from shitting all over /jp/.
It's to be expected that they have a surface-level understanding of something they're supposed to care about, especially when the shitposting was so thorough once upon a time.

Just make djt into its own board, fuck me or make Lang

Learning another language is good enough hobby to get its own board

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>>877228
>asan

Oh wow, what the fuck happened to the thread with all these nuked posts.

>asan wants to make /jp/ worse by putting generals there
I hate living. Time to go to gensokyo. Not even joking.

>>877823
>>877830
I can't tell if Anonymous-san is being facetious or he legitimately believes moving DJTs to /jp/ is a good idea.

>>877599
We used to have a /lang/, but moot was a fucking retard and deleted it along with other 17 textboards.

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>generals are cancer 2 - electric boogaloo

>>877830
Sending greentexters to Gensokyo doesn't sound too bad!

>>877891
I doubt that all the little girls in Gensokyo would value them.

>>877898
We gotta keep them well fed.

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>>877878
These threads had no blogging/chatting at all

>>877181
There are no "/jp/ users" left on /jp/, only crossboarders. Been this way for a fair while now, newfag.

>>877223
>Is there any mod that favors /jp/?
No one favours /jp/. Christ, how new are you? m00t and moderation have always disliked /jp/; it was even made out spite.

>>877332
>like old /jp/ aka Nijiura 2.0.
Another anon who has no idea what /jp/ was. No, newfag, it was never supposed to be like a 二次裏 board, that's what it became. I doubt any of the /jp/spies who were the regular core /jp/ while it was still alive are even on 4chan any more.

>>877984
>m00t and moderation have always disliked /jp/

Not him, but why? I don't really browse /jp/, but why was moot such a faggot that he attracted unwanted attention to /jp/ saying it was his favorite board? Why would you fuck up a board like that?

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>>877986
>No, newfag, it was never supposed to be like a 二次裏 board, that's what it became.
I never said otherwise, learn to read and to stop assuming things.
Jesus christ, for someone supposedly from the Jay you sure don't take it easy.

>>877984
I know that, but call me naive if you want but I want to believe there's at least one mod in the entire moderation team that has some sympathy for /jp/. Though seeing how things have gone lately I'm starting to doubt it

>>878071
>I want to believe
Classical /jp/!

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>>878071
No one on staff has any sympathy for /jp/ because throughout its entire history the ghostboard spergs whined and screamed regardless of what the condition of the board actually was.

When it was an unmoderated wannabe nijiura they screamed for moderation, when they got a janitor they waged an autismal and petty war against him, when he quit they went back to the start and cycled through a couple this way until the current one stuck.

You get the moderation you deserve.

/jp/ died with /qa/

How do I become a world class /jp/sie?

>>877823
Did you manage to talk with kami? I never see him online.

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How about we get rid of these first?

>>878238
I mentioned threads like those on the second post

The real problem with /jp/ is that all of /jp/ is garbage so that if you remove one kind of garbage all that's left is more of some different kind of garbage.

Everything is either a general thread, shitty template thread, blog thread, or some thread about Japan where everybody feels the need to contribute their two uninformed cents.

Just deal with it, sperg.
It's Otaku Culture.

Focus on threads you like.
You do like /jp/, right? You aren't browsing 4chan just to find things you hate and complain about them on /qa/, right? Right, sperg?

>>878292
Lol, did someone shit on your cereal or something? No need to get so defensive about whatever general you came from

>>877235
He is doing a good thing.

>>878085
>When it was an unmoderated wannabe nijiura they screamed for moderation


this never happened

>>877181
>And since they don't use sage
I've been using it for months, still seems to bump the thread.

>>877181
>a subset of users from DJT weren't happy with being on /int/ and decided to move to /jp/
i dont think this is accurate

>>878581
Well, in /jp/

Seems like it works properly here.

>>877823
Talking with asan now, he says he doesn't want generals on /jp/ or anywhere on 4chan, but that this log meant he doesn't want generals /a/.

>>878772
>but that this log meant he doesn't want generals /a/.
???
Do you mean generals on /a/ or from /a/? Posting the logs would be nice as well.

The first message I sent was asking asan whether he wanted generals on /jp/, but I don't have it in my logs since I used /msg rather than /query
(21:45:00) asan: no
(21:45:06) asan: where are you getting that
(21:45:25) GJSussman: >>877823
(21:46:01) asan: that is a real log but I don't want generals on /jp/
(21:46:06) GJSussman: i see
(21:46:07) asan: as a blanket, generality
(21:46:20) asan: don't read into it that much
(21:46:29) GJSussman: I wish I understood the log better
(21:46:30) GJSussman: but okay
(21:46:35) asan: it's easy to read
(21:47:01) GJSussman: I do remember a point in time in which japanese-learning threads were common on /jp/, but it was fine since they weren't generals
(21:47:13) asan: it doesn't say "general threads are good, says me" in it
(21:47:23) GJSussman: But yeah, I too miss some text boards like /sjis/
(21:47:25) asan: it says "I personally think the thread isn't a good fit on /a/"
(21:47:29) GJSussman: I see
(21:47:30) asan: that's all it says
(21:47:38) asan: don't extrapolate things
(21:48:34) GJSussman: May I post this log in the thread?
(21:48:36) GJSussman: your choice
(21:49:58) asan: I mean, we assume that anything anybody says to any users is going to get posted whether we explicitly give permission for it or not
(21:50:10) asan: because that's just how the internet works
(21:50:13) GJSussman: I just want to be polite: of course I could disobey you
(21:50:15) GJSussman: I'm not dumb
(21:50:18) asan: you could!
(21:50:31) asan: and don't you think it'd cause more shit if I were to, like, take action against you for doing it?
(21:50:39) GJSussman: ah
(21:50:43) asan: "oh shit this random person posted a chatlog I'm just gonna ban them and see what happens"
(21:50:49) asan: would not fly obviously

(21:50:59) asan: it's the same thing
(21:51:12) asan: don't be afraid to think about things but also don't put words in anybody's mouth
(21:51:29) GJSussman: but I genuinely, truly, respect the sanctity of person-to-person chat logs, unlike group chats
(21:51:30) asan: that's the issue I think with the fact that in recent years people have been too scared to interact regularly with the userbase
(21:51:30) GJSussman: so I asked
(21:51:37) GJSussman: i c
(21:51:38) asan: I can respect that
(21:51:46) asan: thanks for asking anyway
(21:51:49) asan: <3 ハート
(21:51:54) asan: but like
(21:52:39) asan: the main reason people remembered me in /a/ after all these years of my absence was because I always made it abundantly clear that communication was key
(21:53:03) asan: life got in the way sometimes, sure, but I always made sure to keep people in the loop
(21:53:10) asan: as often and as best I could
(21:53:38) GJSussman: Communication is key in any relationship, whether it be mod-user, janny-user, NEET/2Dgf, or bf/gf
(21:53:56) asan: I feel that the userbase has become used to the idea that staff are just unilaterally going to clam up and enforce shit without considering how the userbase is going to interpret it
(21:54:01) asan: and not do any aftercare
(21:54:11) asan: and that's not ideal imho
(21:54:14) GJSussman: They got used to the idea because it became a reality
(21:54:19) GJSussman: and I agree it's not ideal
(21:54:26) asan: hopefully that reverses somehow
(21:54:28) GJSussman: Someone on /jp/ said something like
(21:54:35) GJSussman: "if you're too scared to make a thread, you don't make it"
(21:54:48) GJSussman: And until I read that I really had been too scared to make threads, and I realised it
(21:54:59) GJSussman: Since then I've been trying to make unique threads, and I'm happy I decided to do it
(21:55:05) GJSussman: fortunately only deletions and no bans, so far

(21:55:14) GJSussman: I'm pleased.
(21:55:31) asan: when I first started posting in early-to-mid 2004 I was scared that the people online were going to be mean and say things to me to make me sad
(21:56:10) asan: then I stayed up all night dicking around in /b/ on Easter Monday and had the time of my life
(21:56:21) asan: all it takes is courage
(21:56:24) asan: believe in yourself
(21:56:34) asan: watch love live a bunch and think about honoka
(21:56:52) GJSussman: tfw too lazy to pirate
(21:56:57) GJSussman: tfw using ``tfw'' on irc
(21:56:59) asan: it takes three fucking clicks
(21:57:02) asan: do it faggot
(21:57:22) GJSussman: Yeah, at one point I started
(21:57:27) asan: watch the first thre episodes in one sitting
(21:57:30) asan: +e
(21:57:41) GJSussman: but then I ended up in a situation where I didn't know how to pass huge files between two disks I had
(21:57:51) GJSussman: and I was frightened about have a huge leech ratio
(21:57:53) asan: the solution is to buy large hard drives
(21:57:59) asan: also nyaa doesn't have leech ratios
(21:58:10) asan: bakabt might but
(21:58:14) GJSussman: Ah, the problem here was that I was using the same disk but installing a different OS
(21:58:16) asan: I fixed that years ago
(21:58:23) asan: but anyway
(21:58:24) GJSussman: while wanting to use another disk as a temporary place to keep them
(21:58:25) GJSussman: yeah
(21:58:28) GJSussman: my mistakes
(21:58:31) asan: the point I was making earlier is:
(21:58:36) asan: general threads suck
(21:59:38) asan: because they're an attempt to disregard the deliberate and inherent features of the board software and force a self-contained exclusionary enclave inside a larger community
(21:59:55) asan: there's people I've seen on the site who call threads "sub"s, as in "subreddits"
(22:00:00) asan: which is infuriating
(22:00:12) GJSussman: out of curiosity, does /j/ argue about generals much

(22:00:30) GJSussman: I do know there have been jannies caught deleting anti-general posts
(22:00:44) GJSussman: I got banned a couple times earlier this year for that, haha
(22:01:03) asan: the idea of posting a thread to continue a conversation that's hit its bump limit is not inherently bad, but the idea of taking that paradigm to the extent of creating threads just for the sake of keeping a persistent thread about a topic around because you don't actually have anything to say about a topic at a present time is the problem
(22:01:46) asan: threads expire for a reason and attempts to keep a particular thread around on life support when the board software is telling you "this should die soon" is antithetical to the 4chan experience
(22:01:58) GJSussman: ahhh, we have such similar opinions on this
(22:02:27) asan: also I had a long conversation with someone a few days ago who was trying to tell me that DJT was a community that needed to stay on /a/ because it helped people learn how to translate cartoons
(22:03:08) asan: and I was like "if the thread has created a self-contained community, maybe it's outgrown the site as its primary home and needs to set up an external resources of its own that can then be OF USE to the community at large outside of 4chan"
(22:03:15) GJSussman: I don't think 4chan is meant to be a source of information rather than a source of anonymous people
(22:03:16) GJSussman: that too
(22:03:28) asan: like setting up an IRC channel, or a blog, or a kareha site, or some other thing
(22:03:46) asan: so you don't have to keep pounding that square peg to make it fit into the round hole
(22:04:43) asan: and with a dedicated external site it isn't stuck dealing with 4chan's particulars, plus it'd still be just as anonymous and self-contained as threads on /a/ or /jp/ or /int/, PLUS it can grow and expand and just be this thing everybody uses at some point
307: has identified for this nick
671: is using a secure connection

(22:04:59) asan: that guy asked to post chatlogs and I was like "sure go ahead" but I don't know if he did
(22:05:14) asan: I don't think he did
(22:05:17) asan: which is a waste
(22:05:41) GJSussman: I'm not going to post this chat log now since I look like a huge fag and my nick 'GJSussman' has already been pulled off of #4chan to become a scapegoat on /jp/
(22:05:59) GJSussman: it's funny, when I use warosu to search for 'GJSussman' i find general posters looking for an anti-general boogyman
(22:05:59) asan: he was like "but we want to stay on 4chan and help 4chan and be on 4chan" and I was just like "you know people can use more than one site at once, right"
(22:06:15) GJSussman: w
(22:06:25) asan: you could, I dunno, do a find-replace on the chatlog and replace the name with something else if you want
(22:06:30) GJSussman: i know
(22:06:31) asan: it's not like IRC is anything except a damn text file
(22:06:33) GJSussman: I thought of that
(22:06:48) GJSussman: I guess I'll do it
(22:06:58) asan: if you wanna do it go ahead, it'd actually be preferable to me repeating myself a million times
(22:07:11) asan: or you can just keep your name in there since you're not the focus of the conversation here
(22:07:15) asan: up to you
(22:07:18) asan: if you even post it in the first place
(22:07:26) GJSussman: ~doing it now~
(22:07:29) asan: ~
(22:07:30) asan: tilde
(22:07:35) asan: ~~~~~~
(22:16:07) GJSussman: posted

>"if you're too scared to make a thread, you don't make it"
That's how i go on on /jp/

>>878238
Opposition to generals is not tacit approval for roleplaying image dumps. How many times does this have to be said?

>>878787
>>878789
>>878791
>>878792
>>878793
Thanks for posting. Probably should have asked about kinomod as well so people stop the entire "i-i-its not kinomod! ITS A FAKE" bullshit, but then again that honestly sounds like something dumb to ask at the same time.

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Thank you for posting this it was really nice and you're a nice anon

>>878797
It's been one of the prevailing themes in /jp/ meta threads for a while, hasn't it?
That being said, I do appreciate a lot of junk threads getting purged, especially when they're /pol/ or /r9k/ related.

>>878792
>asan: and with a dedicated external site it isn't stuck dealing with 4chan's particulars
Too bad the moderation kills this for advertising on sight. Mention any alternative for discussion in /jp/ and moderation will drop an advertising ban on you so fast you'll have no idea what hit you. Nobody in moderation has any fucking idea what anyone else in moderation is doing, least of all a moderator back from a five-year vacation he requested himself on a board he doesn't use.

>"if you're too scared to make a thread, you don't make it"
I'm glad people are finally waking up to what's all around them.

>I got banned a couple times earlier this year for that, haha
The most recent shitfest concerning DJT aside, /jp/ has always banned meta more vigilantly and harshly than any other board on 4chan bar none.

All that said, thank you for taking the time to do what I'm long since too jaded to try.

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>>878912
>Mention any alternative for discussion in /jp/ and moderation will drop an advertising ban on you so fast you'll have no idea what hit you. Nobody in moderation has any fucking idea what anyone else in moderation is doing
Hello friend, I've brought this exact point up and suggested that the rule be relaxed in this instance. Can't say whether or not my request will be honored, but I did want to let you guys know that in the very specific case we're talking about right now, that my suggestion has been voiced.

[12/11/16 11:35:40PM] <asan> I'm going to suggest that if anyone sees talk out there for establishing an external site to host enclave communities that board citizens complain about posting general threads (prime example being DJT in /jp/ or /int/), that you don't delete or do any moderator/janitor action on those posts
[12/11/16 11:35:40PM] <asan> >>878912
[12/11/16 11:36:34PM] <asan> example: if someone says "I started a kareha board or whatever to move DJT-type community discussion off the site, so that it can be used as a larger site-wide resource maybe, or also here's an IRC channel" that you don't move to delete it so rapidly
[12/11/16 11:37:14PM] <asan> if there's any hesitation on your part, feel free to discuss it [in staff channels] for consensus
[12/11/16 11:38:03PM] <asan> if something is obviously unilateral or commercial in nature this caveat shouldn't apply, of course
[12/11/16 11:39:03PM] <asan> but a release valve for low-calorie revolving threads like that is not in itself a bad thing. we don't ban/delete people for suggesting others go to youtube or nyaa or wikipedia as external reference, right
[12/11/16 11:39:11PM] <asan> so I'd argue that the same principle applies

We shall see what comes of it. Just my two cents. I also hope that the underlying principle isn't abused to justify every Tom Dick and Harry advertising their bullshit website nobody's got any interest in, but in the very specific case where communities establish external resources on their own initiative and say "hey, a large chunk of users created a thing that we aren't actively promoting or posting new threads about, just slipping a note here and there in passing wherever it makes most sense" I don't think there'd be too much of an issue.

Again, though, knowing people's tendency to bend the rules, who knows whether or not it'd end up being a bad idea. But I did want to let you guys know that I suggested it.

>>877181
>It seems that once a thread starts to bother people on /a/, it gets dumped into /jp/ with no care on how does that affect the board.

This isnt accurate. DJT didnt bother anyone on /a/. The mods just decided to move it to /int/ (and /jp/, apparently) for no reason, which is far worse since they'll probably do it again in the future.

>>878926
>DJT didnt bother anyone on /a/
It bothered me

>>878923
also note: the second part of my suggestion is important; that this would theoretically apply to people kinda under-the-table suggesting, in existing threads, VERY sparingly, "here's a link to this thing over here" and not to new threads advertising the existence of the resource. What that means is, if you guys want to go through the trouble of establishing an IRC channel or whatever and using it to coordinate and discuss whatever would be necessary for setting up this resource, followed by populating it with content, and only then slipping a reference to it -- WITHOUT using 4chan to create threads as banners saying SO EVERYBODY GO HERE TO MAKE THE NEW SPLINTER BOARD (because that would be advertising). Off the site.

Is it roundabout, sure. Would it be hard to get the word out, potentially. But if the DJT guys do have as tightly-knit and self-sustaining community as they claim to have, and if they really do provide the value they say they provide to the internet, then it would support the endeavor natively without needing to use this site as a backbone when clearly so many people all across the site just aren't interested in it being a ~cultural milestone~ or whatever they claim it is.

If not, then maybe the community really *wasn't* that tightly-knit, or important, and maybe it was destined to fail without staying on life support on the boards here.

One extremely telling thing, as was pointed out in >>878791, is the notion that a subset of users have taken to calling such threads "subreddits" because the idea of a thread naturally being pruned automatically when it reaches a natural TTL is so alien that they feel like the board deleting content periodically is a *bug* that *their actions are intended to correct and patch over*.

That's the main issue at hand here. Not the existence of a resource, or a group of people genuinely interested in ostensibly giving back to the site.

>>878923
Thank you for taking the time to look into the issue. I'm not certain things will play out the way you speculate, as half of the reason that general threads (DJT being one among many) coalesce out of thin air is because of simply how effortless it is on 4chan, but I guess it's something that could happen.

As for general threads more broadly, well, I think that that's a separate and much larger issue that encompasses a lot more than DJT.

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>>878967

A mod can say how much he hates generals in private chat as much as he wants, but it means nothing to me as I see generals claim more and more space on nearly every board, especially as they receive increased janitor and mod attention which detracts from janitor and mod attention for real 4chan threads.

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>>878946
Just merely a suggestion, but I think it might be a good idea for someone on the moderation stuff to just fling a simple ping to some of the groups that fit this criteria. Not as a passive aggressive way to tell these people to fuck off, but to remind them that hey, they don't really need to be here. A lot of these sort of things stick out when you compare them to the rest of the board, so giving people a reminder that 4chan isn't the only site around and that if you make your own for your community, you can flourish much better and not piss everyone else around you off so much. Especially more so for the more volatile groups that are volatile against the boards they are on or the mods.

Thanks for posting as well, it's nice to see some sort of mod show an interest. The only other mod I've seen show any care or love recently ironically enough is swaglord. It'd be nice to see you post more, preferably with your trip and not on /qa/.

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>>879057
Thanks for the feedback. I'll be sure to do something along the lines of communicating to people who post generals "hey, maybe consider taking it offsite" -- also when appropriate a timely and direct modpost is certainly helpful in dispelling tension, and it's something I made frequent use of during my earlier seven years on the site; on the current backend, moderator abilities are rolled out on a fixed drip the longer your account is active, so I've had to effectively start from scratch (no HTML, no capcode) which is why the trip is what I've chosen to use. But I actually agree with you there. The trick is to somehow send the ping over to the users in question before some other janitor or moderator jumps in and deletes a thread somewhere. Though if they're making threads on /jp/ and not /a/ maybe it'd be easier to catch them there.

The number of /a/ posters who recognize my nametrip at the moment are few since, again, I hadn't been active since 2011; so I try not to use it there.

I honestly have no idea who swaglord is

>>879263
What will you do when they "consider" taking it off-site and then don't? There are many forums on the internet but people in the /jp/ general threads can and will call you a retard and continue posting exactly what they were posting before (which they attempted to do, with abandon, in /a/).

It's very easy to argue for them to argue that there's nothing wrong with general threads. Then what?

>>879272
At that point, you'd think there'd be other people (who aren't mods) weighing in to say "this shit sucks", right?

>>879272
also mod sass is technically bannable

>>879274
There's honestly very little left of /jp/ once you take the general threads away. Breaking them up would be the biggest single shakeup /jp/'s had since it got rules.

People aren't going to sass the mod to his face. They're just going to do exactly what they've been doing every day for the last three years, maybe with a retemplated OP if it really comes down to it, and mutter to each other when they think nobody's looking about the "horrible newfag mod" that users love to blame whenever anything changes.

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>>879277
The idea behind why generals are problematic is not because they're threads about a wide-ranging topic, because by that token every single thread on /p/ is a Photography General and every thread on /e/ is a Lewd Anime Girl General. /jp/ is where all the Japan-related threads that aren't about anime, manga, their associated creative industries, or the creative process/methodology/media criticism are supposed to go. That happens to skew towards young adult media and maybe some smattering of politics and news and travel discussion, because that's mostly what people are going to be interested in when discussing Japan as Westerners.

If someone posts a thread about general topics relating to travel in the hope that it attracts a wide gamut of posters discussing a variety of topics, that's fine; but if the threads themselves become self-perpetuating, where the same insular group of people try to use the site as a anonymous Twitter circle and completely alienate the rest of the board, that's the problem.

The fact that /jp/ has a tight-knit community (in theory, anyway ;______;) is absolutely fine and good! The issue is mostly if the community becomes exclusionary, or combative about not mixing into the board, or feels the need to create a thread about a given topic SIMPLY because that thread isn't on the board right now, regardless of whether or not they have anything to say.

It's a nuanced discussion and it's no wonder that the average internet user doesn't have the tools to unpack that nuance.

We just gotta do our best though! gotta fight-o ;______________________________; wwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

>>878923
>>878946
>>879019
>>879263
Hi, I'm the anon from DJT who talked to you the other day (here's the log, if anyone would like to read it: https://ghostbin.com/paste/3wc7p) I know you said you'd get back to me later, but I had some connection problems, so I don't know if my message got through, and I also had some other business to attend to. Besides, I didn't want to be too pushy or egotistical; as I said before, I'm not a spokesperson for DJT or anything, I figured that if someone else wanted to continue the discussion they could simply message you themselves. Anyway, I posted our conversation in the /int/ thread and here's what the others had to say: http://desuarchive.org/int/thread/68116402/#68128332 (follow the reply chain)

>>879280
I agree, I think generals are detrimental to get people interested in topics. An OP that raises some topic of discussion may attract me even if I don't care about the topic.

For example I don't care about idols but if someone opens a topic saying, I don't know, "are you interested in AKB48 music or just the girls?" (Just an example of a possible topic) I may be interested in checking the thread, but if the OP post is just "AKB general #842" and a bunch of pastebins I'll just ignore it.

>>879303
Exactly. Threads are conversations, they are not IRC channels and they are not subforums.

>>877181
I suppose for fairness sake I should update the info on the OP. The monster girl general is currently at 1347 replies with 154 posters, so the community is larger than what it was first implied in my post.

>>879280
>The fact that /jp/ has a tight-knit community (in theory, anyway ;______;)
It did. Now it has many, many tight-knit communities that don't talk. Times change.

>>879307
>>879303
>I don't know, "are you interested in AKB48 music or just the girls?" (Just an example of a possible topic)
Those kinds of widely accessible threads are better for people who are just getting into a topic, or looking for new interests, or want to share their interests with others. But expert fans of a certain topic mostly want to talk about it with other expert fans and not, for lack of a better description, entry-level casuals. And that's essentially how (good, topic-based, non-circlejerk) general threads work. If there's actually material to discuss (so not the endless lewdposting generals), the only prerequisite for posting is that you be a knowledgeable fan of X thing.

You know how /a/ is full of jackasses who think that you should have watched at least 200 series before you're allowed to have an opinion on anime? People internalize that attitude with all sorts of topics. They don't want to interact with filthy casuals. As insular as it is, that's why it's hard to actually look at general threads and say "these people are doing it wrong," even if I personally like accessible threads much better.

>>877181
swynrp tioeeo otuwds phrfdi ain gtg.

a/ilacb ljsioo sptna o,etr aad li ln ym e n t.

>>879274
>say "this shit sucks"
Being anti-general on /jp/ gets you a ban from the guy who loves and moderates monster girl generals.

>>879280
>young adult media
>politics
You've never been to /jp/.
It's about touhou, otaku/neet/hiki culture, pure creativity and output.

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>>879478
Really? That's weird. Let me know in IRC (asan/Anonymous-san) if that happens next time and I'll check it out.

Don't let something like that stop you from doing what your heart tells you is the right thing to do. General threads do suck, and if a user gets actually legit banned for saying that (not joke-banned) it's a stupid ban and shouldn't probably have happened.

>>879562
I'm not sure it happens so often now, but earlier this year, no matter what thread you were in, no matter how big a post you made, no matter how well you hid it in your productive and useful post, one of the mods or janitors was finding every post that mentioned the phrase monster girl, or the word general, and then deleting it if it was against those, and leaving it up if it was for those.
It probably won't happen to many people again since people know not to say those things anymore, but if it does, I'll remember: thank you for the support.
I wish monster girls would go to the relevant red boards. Blue boards aren't for NSFW threads.

>>879570
(if I had seen or known about any of that shit happening I'd have probably had a conniption at them, honestly)

>>879272
DJT was made in /a/, for /a/, by /a/ and was sustained by new /a/nons coming in and trying to learn japanese so they could read raw manga and watch raw anime, not by having the same people in it for four years, with tripcodes and avatars, like the actual bad generals on /a/. Moving it to some offsite would effectively kill the thread, since no new blood would join it and the handful that would stay would ironically end up as some cliquish hell, becoming the thing people said it was. DJT served a useful purpose, as does the buyfag thread, and trying to remove them from /a/ hasn't seemed to actually improve the board's quality.

>>879573
Not really. It's an attempt to establish a persistent forum thread on a site whose defining feature is the auto-pruning of content. Users who spent most of their time in the thread often would use /a/ mostly FOR that thread. Just because the circlejerk was anonymous didn't mean it wasn't a circlejerk nonetheless.

Also, if your argument against the establishment of an external resource boils down to "without constantly being visible to all of /a/ all the time it'll die!" then is it really capable of standing on its own?

You're not giving anyone any real confidence that it's a worthwhile thing to have around.

Furthermore, your insistence of calling it "the thread" as a separate entity from the rest of the board is exactly the problem at hand here. By trying to position it as both an open and fluid feature of the board at the same time as saying it's its own thing is talking out of both sides of your mouth.

If your "community" is really as self-sustaining as you say it is, establish an offsite home for it. Word of mouth will spread its existence to the userbase at large. How the hell do you think people find out about the archive sites, torrent aggregators, mahou.org/Showtime, anichart? Nobody sat there and posted thread after thread suggesting that these things get users. Nobody actively evangelized the existence of the things. These services fulfill(ed) needs that the community at large recognized. They became resources that everybody uses. They spread organically, and they kept getting used because they kept being useful to people, and people kept recommending them.

Also how can you not see the benefits inherent in creating an entire website dedicated to the idea of providing an anonymous BBS dedicated to teaching and learning Japanese? You could have a board for grammar, a board for JP discussion (no English allowed), a board for translation project archives, a board for translation help and tutoring requests, for vocabulary, for music...

>>879573
The possibilities are endless when you own the site. Best of all, it'd still be a part of 4chan culture, since it'd be anonymous; you'd have the ability to create multiple boards dedicated to different aspects of the adventure, and you could keep all the knowledge you've gained in a single spot that would ALWAYS be around without having to create a million threads on someone else's website with links to pastebins and FAQs.

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>>879263
my MAN - that was my favorite book as a kid!!!!!!!!!

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>>879057
>The only other mod I've seen show any care or love recently ironically enough is swaglord
>ironically enough

:^)

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>>879596

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>>879598
ebin gif sorry about ur offbyones tho

>>879599
and check my consecutive dubs

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>>879600
hax

>>879599
>>879600
nice script

>>879582
Your insistence on treating what was essentially a community project as a general in the same vein as the monster girl threads is the problem. DJT wasn't there to teach /a/nons how to be fluent, talk to native japanese people, or move to japan. It was there to teach /a/nons, and only /a/nons, how to read/listen enough to where they could read/watch raw manga/anime. An /a/non sees the thread on the catalog, uses the guide and gets help from other /a/nons in that thread, then leaves the thread. That is how it worked, with no tripfags and only the occasional shitposter that anyone from DJT will tell you was not wanted there.
>>879590
>it'd still be a part of 4chan culture
You mean like that barren shitheap used by /v/ and /pol/ rejects? Or the other failed offsites? 4chan isn't even an homogeneous entity, boards absolutely hate each other here. What makes you think an /a/non would go to another chan when they don't even go to other boards most of the time? If you can't understand this, you shouldn't be making mod decisions.

>just ask hiro to bring back the text boards
We fucking tried, but he said something like

>>>>/news/
>its a text board.

Which is dumb because it's not in the text board css and OPs can still post images

>>879611
https://desuarchive.org/qa/thread/544514/#546181
Found where he said it, almost word for word too, he said it somewhere else later on in another thread, but that's all i could find/remember

>>879605
It's funny you suggest that users in the thread only use it temporarily, when the entire rest of the argument I've seen people give for its existence is "people come to depend on it and love to stay in it a long time across multiple iterations of the thread" -- so is it a fleeting ad-hoc resource, or is it a full-fledged community?

Also, if it's a community project, then that lends even further credence to the idea that once it's grown past the confines of the board that spawned it, it should either adapt to take on whatever external resources it needs to thrive, or otherwise it's served its purpose and has to go.

The fact is that nobody, except the people who continued to insist "no, people like the thread!" thinks the thread is a good fit for /a/. Invoking a sense of home-town pride by saying it's "by /a/, for /a/, and nobody else but /a/" is disingenuous and self-limiting, not to mention rhetorically transparent.

Nobody really cares. 4chan imageboard threads are not designed to be permanent fixtures set up by fiat. They are discrete open conversations occurring simultaneously and revolving around the shared theme of the board, and are designed to have limited lifespans.

>>879614
To me that reads like he's open to the idea of supporting text boards as separate entities. The major hurdles would basically be in adapting them to fit the current moderation framework. The last time we had textboards, they were written in PHP 3 by a 16-year-old and used flat text files for everything. The changes needed to make them work with Futallaby's backend were pretty big, mostly related to user authentication, and they never really worked right a lot of the time. They had massive vulnerabilities and allowed for execution of arbitrary code sometimes because they were written by a 16-year-old.

Bringing back text boards is possible assuming that they look and feel like 2ch on the outside and work like the rest of the site on the inside. But it's also another thing to maintain, so there's a tradeoff that'd need to be made there. Doesn't sound like hiro is against the idea, though.

>>879605
also: the moderators' decision to take a definitive stance saying Daily Japanese Threads were outside of the intended scope of /a/ were based on the opinions and experience of moderators who had been a part of the website since the founding of the website, along with hundreds of concerned inquiries from the userbase and reports and emails and IRC messages over the course of many months.

This was not a unilateral action. It was something that was a long time coming. What's the point of continuing to make threads on a board when everybody on the board hates it, at worst, or is completely indifferent to it at best? Why continue to put that effort in for self-satisfaction when you know for a fact that doing that causes social frustration all around you?

Also suggesting that 4chan users are opposed to the idea of visiting other websites on some bullshit principle of laziness or intellectual closed-mindedness is kind of a massive dis to everyone on the board you're ostensibly trying to help lead to a journey of Jappo Enlightenment. I guarantee you that a lot, a LOT, of people go to 4chan from other websites, and go to other websites from 4chan.

>>879626
What is the official stance on /djt/ now? Are they to stay on /jp/ or /int/?

>>879630
yes

>>879630
DJT is in Sengoku mode.

>>879620
>It's funny you suggest that users in the thread only use it temporarily, when the entire rest of the argument I've seen people give for its existence is "people come to depend on it and love to stay in it a long time across multiple iterations of the thread" -- so is it a fleeting ad-hoc resource, or is it a full-fledged community?
How long do you think it takes to learn japanese well enough to read something like Azumanga Daioh? There aren't tripfags in DJT like you'd find in an actual general, and people only stayed in the threads while they were learning.
>Also, if it's a community project, then that lends even further credence to the idea that once it's grown past the confines of the board that spawned it, it should either adapt to take on whatever external resources it needs to thrive, or otherwise it's served its purpose and has to go.
The only one insisting DJT has done so are the mods and shitposters. By this same notion, that solid month or so /a/ had a perpetual SYD thread up where the community came together to translate over 100 chapters of sex puns should have been stopped and no work would have been done.

>>879605
>catalog
The catalog promotes generals by letting people skip the whole board.

>>879626
What about the many, many vocal posts on /a/ about threads like the monster girls thread, JoJo threads, Madoka threads, and Fate threads? Those have recieved more hate than I have ever seen for DJT, yet whereas DJT got an explanation days later, in a thread on /qa/, in a thread that had hit autosage and was already on page 8, these threads got a warning before anything happened, and some are still on /a/'s catalog, and going "no, we saw things in private email, we swear" isn't good enough.
>Also suggesting that 4chan users are opposed to the idea of visiting other websites on some bullshit principle of laziness or intellectual closed-mindedness is kind of a massive dis to everyone on the board
We're talking about /a/, here. an /a/non won't go post on some other chan except maybe ghostposting in the archives. Your implication that all of 4chan is homogeneous is faulty and not based in reality; /a/ has a different way of doing things than /v/ and /v/ is different from /o/ and so on. Trying to insist the opposite will not work, and it's this tone-deafness that leads to things like that nipple thing a while back and Accelerator spamming the board.

>>879678
4chan was better when people used more than one board. It was better than people used more than five boards.
The idea that people who visit just one single board should be accepted on 4chan is absurd.

>>879681
Then the mods should fix the other boards so they aren't shit instead of bringing the quality of good boards like /a/ down

>>879684
I agree that many boards need to improve. Moving a general to /jp/ makes it worse rather than better, though.

>>879687
Putting it on /int/ is worse because it wasn't for teaching people to converse, it was to help /a/nons read manga and watch anime. /jp/ was better because it at least didn't have flags, which became a de-facto tripcode for some posters, and it was /a/-adjacent, instead of populated by normalfags like /int/ is.

>>879687
>Moving a general to /jp/ makes it worse rather than better, though.

By "it" you mean the general or /jp/?

>>879698
/jp/

>>879696
>normalfags
Most of what /a/ considers normalfag behavior, /jp/ is steeped in. /a/ and /jp/ are cultural strangers today.

>>879702
Compared to /int/, /jp/ is full of NEET hikkis.

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>>879605
It's a community project that has long since out-grown /a/. It is also something that is no longer /a/ but still hangs around /a/. Don't give me any of that bullshit either, you guys spent quite a bit of time spamming /a/ with threads because someone made threads with an anime image and you didn't like how it looked. Don't give me bullshit for this either, this was straight up DJT users and a good portion of you were claiming the person making the threads was a shitposter solely for the image. Do you understand how fucking stupid this is? Do you not understand how much this shows how the thread has outgrown /a/ and is truly no longer an /a/ thing? People will bring this up time and time again because it alone truly shows how much you are out of place. You are stuck in that "for /a/" mindset when you have long since stopped being that. You are intentionally limiting your possibilities and possible growth for dumb as fuck reasons that don't even apply. What you were allowed on /a/ for and what you are today have too many disparities in it.

Going to another website wouldn't suddenly disconnect it from 4chan and rather it could become an extension to this place. Don't "n-no t-true /a/non uses another place!" This is wrong. Like probably 90% of 4chan uses more than one board, this is a /a/ too. /a/ very much uses other boards AND other websites. /a/ has always had other websites it uses and things like irc. And /a/ very fucking much uses other chans. Were you not around for the attempt to decide for the next place to move to? Most people admitted they used some other place. People always have. The majority of /a/nons use other boards and websites/chans. This is an objective undeniable fact. Only newfags and people stuck in that dumb "only true /a/non" don't. This topic is non-debatable. Give it up, it's making you sound stupid.

There is a reason you aren't in moderation.

OP here, kinda sad the thread became about DJT since I only used it on the OP to set up the example of the monster girl thread which is the real problem I wanted to talk about. It's nice that Anonymous-san has posted here but I would like him to adress the first two posts of the thread. Especially regarding the issue of Touhou imagedumps since I think that's the easiest one to solve.

>>879742
Tell me, what kinds of threads are going to fill up /jp/ if we get rid of the shitty Touhou threads? It probably isn't going to be anything good.

>>879741
>and a good portion of you were claiming the person making the threads was a shitposter solely for the image
That's hardly it. The OP warring came at the same time that one or several people were engaged in a massive campaign against DJT, including copy-pasting questions from other websites and old threads en masse, a series of takedown requests against the filehosts linked in the OP, insane and mindless accusations of "advertising" over the bitlasers webhost, and a parade of /qa/ threads pointing out that DJT should be deleted at the same time.

Even if the person adding these images to the OP was not part of this campaign, he had extremely awful timing to do it with.

>Most people admitted they used some other place.
Most people who don't use some other place don't post about other places.

Following up on >>879748
>Tell me, what kinds of threads are going to fill up /jp/ if we get rid of the shitty Touhou threads? It probably isn't going to be anything good.
I guess this came out sounding pretty defeatist.

I don't mean this in the "we should NEVER do anything to improve /jp/ ever" sense but there is a notion right now that the front page of /jp/ at all times is either general threads or shitty Touhou threads. Whenever people campaign to delete the generals the usual response is to ask them why they want more shitty and pointless Touhou threads, and when people campaign to delete the shitty Touhou threads people ask them why they need more room for general threads. I feel like this is an actual problem rather than just pithy shitposting on my part.

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>>879263
>The number of /a/ posters who recognize my nametrip at the moment are few since, again, I hadn't been active since 2011; so I try not to use it there.
I don't feel like that's really a problem. I still see people bring up hox = mod whenever he posts. Posting a few times will quickly cause people to post in reply "HOLY SHIT ITS MODCAT" more than likely from the few who recognize you. So word would more than likely quickly spread except I guess in a case of irony in generals.

Swaglord is the [s4s] mod. I think he's also called invsibro? No idea, I've never been big on mod identitys. Eitherway, the most likely case is that >>879596 and >>879599 are actually him so those 2 posts alone should answer it for you and why its so ironic.

Unrelated, but you say mod powers are dripped. Does this mean that new mods have their powers heavily restricted in terms of how many posts they can deleted, threads they can delete and so on. Like say, the current situation on /a/. Could it be done purely by a new mod? A decent answer to this could resolve a lot of dumb rumors and arguments. But I feel it could start a bunch of others, so I guess this is tricky to answer.

>>879748
>Most people who don't use some other place don't post about other places.
This was never people advertising, however. This was a long discussion about people seriously considering what alternatives there are if 4chan was to ever die. People didn't fling these around half-hearty or on a dumb whim. A lot of people posted them with big warnings of what not to do and so forth. This wasn't a "people posting what other places they use", it was a "people throwing suggestions of places similar to /a/ that could be used as an alternative if the admin and community approves of the move". /a/ has always used other places and almost every single resource the board has used was something off-site.

>>879764
Wait, I think I read anons post wrong in a half-asleep state. Oh well.

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>>879764
Can't reveal much more than that, but it's in relation to capcode posts etc. So even if I wanted to post with a capcode saying LISTEN UP JERKS I couldn't for a while until that was explicitly enabled, when before that was a function that just came naturally with the moderator account, which is why I did it so often back then.

But I'm online often. Just like before, when you never knew when I'd be there watching to make sure things were ok? Same thing applies. Though /a/ is big and it really helps when people use (NOT ABUSE) the reporting system. Let's all have fun and be friends on the internet.

(I MISSED YOU GUYS OH GOD.)

>>879764
>This was a long discussion about people seriously considering what alternatives there are if 4chan was to ever die.
I pretty much post exclusively on 4chan. If 4chan were to die, there are a number of other chans I would visit to see which received the diaspora. But I don't use them today because most independent chans that align with my interests are either dead or shit or both.

DJT actually seems like one of the things that might survive as an independent community, but that requires either that 1. that someone with rudimentary technical skill wants to set up an imageboard for them (I could, but I don't care), or 2. they parade into some chan that was never meant for it and take it over, or 3. they settle down in one of the infinite chans, which most of 4chan seems to have a hateboner for.

Given that the endless chorus of people redirecting people to DJT that exists today, users and moderators would also both have to get used to constant, endless redirects from 4chan to an external community. I don't mind it myself, but it might leave a bad taste in someone's mouth.

>>879741
>Don't give me any of that bullshit either, you guys spent quite a bit of time spamming /a/ with threads because someone made threads with an anime image and you didn't like how it looked.
You're conveniently ignoring the fact that, after this incident, people started making and using new OP images, of which almost every single one had an anime character in it.

>>879776
>someone with rudimentary technical skill wants to set up an imageboard for them

This is extremely easy and would take someone probably an evening to set up. If ten people pooled together in an IRC channel to set the whole thing up it'd get done with no issue whatsoever. That kind of thing sounds like a grand adventure to me! We used to do it all the damn time ten years ago, setting up websites completely on a whim. It's even easier now than it was before.

>>879776
DJT's resource link is delete-on-sight on /a/, It's one of many reasons why posts like >>879741 claiming making a new site wouldn't disconnect it from 4chan ring hollow.

>>879779
see >>878923

>>879777
That doesn't matter. What matters is that you people actually *seriously* had a problem with what your op image was and that it was an anime image.

>>879781
We had a problem with it because it looked fucking awful and because it was a sudden and one-sided change, not because it was an anime image. Otherwise 99% of DJTs after that would also have had hundred-post-long autism wars over the OP image, which didn't happen.

>>879780
Why are you so insistent on forcing something that the presumed userbase for this new offsite doesn't want? DJT wants to return to /a/, /jp/ wants it off it's board, /int/ is a shithole without true anonymity and accepts any garbage, and the only people who don't want DJT on it's home board seem to be the mods for poorly-defined and inconsistent reasons and shitposters who like to pour gas onto fires.

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>>879788

>>879748
/e/ and /d/ threads just need to go to /e/ and /d/. There used to be a lot of actual discussion of touhou characters, not touhou characters' titties.
There also used to be more discussion on actual otaku things: doujin circles, comiket, how to make things, how to cut the flash off your plastic things, ``what is otaku culture about and where did it come from?'', what those NEET rooms mean, etc.

>>879620
Asanへ
I understand you think generals do not fit on imageboards, and threads should be fleeting, die naturally, and not be remade. That this is the common opinion of the mods, and people who desire generals should simply use some other website.

But this is not what the users want. Do you watch currently airing anime? Every anime tends to get it's own general thread, and for a popular anime, say Flip Flappers, that thread is up 24/7. Is this a bad thing? Do you think Flip Flappers threads should be killed, and people forced to discuss it in random, fleeting threads that don't get remade? If not, then please explain what the difference is between Flip Flappers threads and DJT.

It sounds to me that there's a disagreement between the ideals the mods want to force upon 4chan, and what the users of 4chan want. Because the existence of all these generals, of /vg/, the fact that >90% of the traffic on /jp/ and the like is in generals, is proof that the majority of people like and support them - not everyone, there are some people who hate generals and consider them all cancer, but the majority. So what you need to ask yourself is, for whom do you moderate 4chan? Because if it's for the users, if, as Hiro said, you make rules for user satisfaction, you need to understand that generals are what we want.

Now, I'm not saying you should give generals free reign and let them be as cancerous as they like, definitely not. But be consistent. If I make a blog or shitpost or typ leik thiss in any random thread on /a/, I would be banned, right? Just apply your normal moderation rules to generals, and if people try to treat them like chatrooms and talk about their lives or their toilet visits, then ban them.

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>>879885
>But this is not what the users want. Do you watch currently airing anime? Every anime tends to get it's own general thread
I disagree, this isn't what the users want. People have disagreed to these changes for a bloody long time. It was never a culture that occurred naturally, it is something that was forcefully change to the point were it became "what the users want". Trying to use that fact generals and the similar culture is so prominent as a "this is what the users want" is INCREDIBLY DISHONEST. It's easy for a minority to seem like a majority, especially for something the users have no way to stop. There is no proof here, it is also the mods job to shift through what the users want and what is good for the board and the site. Just because that's what you want and what you think everyone else, it doesn't mean its good for the board.

/a/ has always been known as the most anti-general board on the website and has fought against the existence since they were born. Saying /a/ wants general is frankly lying and merely your confirmation bias talking.

>>879894
Okay, I'll admit I haven't run a statistical study to see if what opinion the majority of people hold. So I can't say for sure that >50% of people agree with me.

So how did you discuss anime back in the day? Did you have ~10 different threads for each show? Because right now, if I want to discuss Flip Flappers I go to the catalog, search "Flip Flappers", and join the current thread up. Similarly for every other show.

So if people hate generals, as you claim, why is it not a single person in the threads has thought "man, these generals are cancer, let's go make another Flip Flappers thread"? Why is it anytime someone does do this, it dies quickly because all the discussion is in current thread, or it replaces the current thread when it dies? Why is it that all the users, all the people who watch this very popular show who are on /a/, want to congregate in this one thread where they're all together, and talk about the show together in one convenient place?

And it's not just Flip Flappers, of course, it's pretty much every anime airing right now. Explain this to me. Because if people were opposed to generals, as you claim, then I think they wouldn't all use them.

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>>879903
Because people yell down your fucking throat about this shit and most of the users who cared either left, don't post anymore or just simply gave up. Have you ever tried to make these threads for the past few years. Your first few responses will almost always be some tardlord posting a link to their general or "FUCKC BACK OFF TO UR THREAD REEEE" and then people telling them to fuck off. The thread then dies because no one wants to deal with the dumb autism that would occur if they tried to post in it. However, people do make these threads all the damn time. You either simply don't see them or see the fact they only get to 100 posts and die and think no one cared about the thread. Which would be wrong.

You are trying to cite how you are the "majority" for something were people no longer have the choice to not follow the autism culture. If they don't, they die. You aren't the majority and people who agree with me probably aren't the majority. Most people who agree with my side of things are generally the older users who are a dying breed. Most users would be indifferent. You aren't the majority, you started off as an incredibly loud and annoying minority and are still a minority. Like most things, the majority don't care. So this entire argument is dumb, as its merely you trying to project.

Just because the users want something, it doesn't mean they should get it. Please let me cite /b/, /v/, /pol/, /r9k/, /g/, /tv/ and so on and forth. What the users wanted became destructive to the board and has made some of them simply unusable for the original purpose. This entire general culture brings nothing to the table and its something you can find in every corner of the internet. Why would you come to 4chan and force a culture onto that its not? What the users want is fucking meaningless. Board culture dies when it becomes a negative. What matters is the merits of the culture and the merits of your culture is trying to defy 4chans structure.

>>879910
So you admit you don't care about what the users want, and think you know best for 4chan. Furthermore, you admit that most of the people who agree with you, and don't like generals, are no longer posters on 4chan. It's good that you're being honest.

Personally, I would like to see mods who are part of the userbase, who appreciate and love 4chan for what it is and want to do their best to uphold it. I want /a/ to be moderated by people who are watching Flip Flappers and other amazing anime, who sit in the threads and chat anonymously about how great it is. It seems to me that this would be beneficial, both in getting agreement and respect between the mods and the users, and allowing the mods to make decisions the community agree with and welcome. And maybe this is the case, maybe there are mods in the threads right now, but from what I'm hearing, if most of the users who cared either left, don't post anymore, or just simply gave up, it really doesn't sound like it is.

I respect the hard work you guys put in, and a lot of what you do is fantastic and essential for the health of the site. But if you don't think current 4chan has any value, if you keep trying to cling to your nostalgia about 4chan 10 years ago before generals became commonplace, then you're not giving the site as it is right now the credit that it's due, and you're not protecting what makes the site as it is right now so great, to the people who post on and love the site as it is right now.

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>>879929
Are you simply incapable of reading? No, frankly, I don't care what the user wants. I'm all for board culture, but just because the users want something, it doesn't mean its good for them. This is undeniable. I didn't say everyone agrees with me, I even said that. I'm not the majority and neither are you. This post of yours really is a switch stance to try and suck the mods dick. No, generals aren't want the users want because most of the userbase just uses whatever is in-front of them. Which is ironic because once this was pointed out you quickly switched to "4chan is already great! I love it please dun change it" instead of trying to continue pushing the you are the users.

See, this is the problem here. You are talking about how """great""" 4chan is (You'll find most will disagree with this notion) and you love its current state and how it would be bad to cater to more native users and yet, this culture and "greatness" of yours wasn't something that came naturally. It was something forced onto boards. It was something that came by shitting pn the very people, its culture, its humour and everything great that people enjoyed about it and forcing those anons who were before out. And now you have the balls to say the mods should forget about these anons who were the original natives that you forced out and cater to you instead. Do you not understand how much of a cunt and hypocrite you sound like? Why should the mods cater to you, an effective invader instead of trying to revert 4chan back to a state where it was much more fun, enjoyable and a more variety of users could enjoy?

You still haven't tried to argue ask /why/ general culture is better for 4chan than its original native format. You have instead moved to an emotional appeal that you like 4chan how it is. The website isn't great, its quality has heavily degraded. Argue on the merits of your culture, not your dumb emotional appeal.

The very mod you are looking for is anon-san.

>>879936
It's a little late for this stance, isn't it? If you wanted to protect pre-general 4chan, you should have done it back then. You should have banned all attempts to make generals and protected your culture and what you found great about it. And I know you guys tried, but you lost, and now the site is covered in generals. Trying to bring old 4chan back now is impossible and you know it, so why try, after it's long gone.

Alright, you want arguments why general culture is better than random fleeting threads. It's more convenient for users, if I want to discuss Flip Flappers, I can just search the current thread, instead of reading through a catalogue filled with shows I don't care about until I find a thread about it. It unifies the users - it means you get all the fans of Flip Flappers in one place, instead of spread out amongst a dozen different threads, which in turn means you get more discussion with a wider variety of people.

It acts as containment threads - instead of getting a bunch of random dumb questions about learning Japanese, everyone just goes to DJT, keeping the catalog free for more quality threads. It allows the building up of quality resources, not just semi-off-topic ones like DJT's but useful collections of anime-related media like YuYuYu's pastebin.

Examples: see /vg/ vs /v/, would you not agree /vg/ has far higher quality discussion than /v/ on average? See YuYuYu general threads vs a random "so I just watched this show" thread on it, one is filled with discussion about the show and the side content, talk about the girls and how much we love them, and speculation about what is happening next, and one is filled with "walmart madoka shit" and "ending was trash shouldve stayed potato". Guess which one is which.

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>>879949
Fuck off you piece of fucking shit. Guess what, the mods DID ban you and they attempted to ban and remove you a second time and now they are banning you a 3rd time. So your first line can fuck right off. You are LITERALLY just saying "4chan can just go fuck itself my culture came, took over and now its staying". The only thing I'm reading here is someone who doesn't care about 4chan and its community, it is someone who only cares fulfilling his desire to shitposting how he wants to.

To be incredibly serious and honest for a second, I really just don't give a shit. I've long since stopped caring, even though modcat has returned. I'm really just wasting my time arguing about this with you, especially after I've done it so many times over the years. It's like talking to a brick wall. I can write multiple posts to be an essay on how your wrong, but you'll always have some dumb sort of retort back. You'll never be willing to admit you are wrong on anything and you'll at the end of the day fall back to what's in your first paragraph. "who the fuck cares, go away, times changes your times is over deal with it, we are in control now". The only comment I'm going to say is, using containment in any form as an argument makes you a bloody retard. It's NEVER a positive or a solution. And that what you are describing is not a chan, its the opposite of a chan. It makes one wonder why you are even here if you are looking for an incredibly unchan like culture and even going out of your way to force and defend why it should be here. Forcing more people into a single thread doesn't make for better discussion and more importantly, better fun and interesting discussion. It actually limits a fucking lot.

This isn't me saying I have no argument, I'm just shitting out on more insult before I fuck off. Go argue with the mod instead, it'll be more productive or argue with image related that's fine as well.

>>879885
>this is the common opinion of the mods
No, most mods actively protect generals.

>>879949
>reading through a catalog
Pro tip: there was no catalog, so you didn't search for threads: you discovered threads.

>>879748
>Tell me, what kinds of threads are going to fill up /jp/ if we get rid of the shitty Touhou threads? It probably isn't going to be anything good.
Without generals and image dumps, good threads could persist without a post every day and slow-to-start threads would have a chance to take off. Right now you need to compete with threads where dumping a random image or typing "kek" are average, acceptable posts.

>>879748
>insane and mindless accusations of "advertising" over the bitlasers webhost
Let me guess, you're the fag who was benefiting from hosting it?
This is why people hate you generalfags: you are incredibly dishonest and are quick to turn valid criticisms on its head in order to crack out a fucking strawman.
Your cancerous general was long overdue to be purged, you shitters were the most self entitled, arrogant and generally off topic bunch of faggots on /a/. Good fucking riddance. Now hopefully the buyfag and drawfag scum will be given the boot as well. A shitty /a/ without off topic generals full of self entitled brats is still better than a shitty /a/ with them.

>>879778
>That kind of thing sounds like a grand adventure to me! We used to do it all the damn time ten years ago, setting up websites completely on a whim. It's even easier now than it was before.
Ten years ago the Internet wasn't flooded with barely literal manchildren and teenagers who get personally offended over the idea of being involved in anything beyond pressing a button and receiving content. There is a multi-billion dollar IT industry catering to these creatively destitute consumption whores.

>>880010
The sad thing is that you're right.

>>880001
But I thought most of old /jp/ left?

>>880008
>Let me guess, you're the fag who was benefiting from hosting it?
No. I work as a full-time web developer and saw people repeatedly making objectively, technically false claims about how websites could financially benefit from 301 redirects, even after being corrected multiple times.

If somebody is repeatedly pushing a narrative that's not even plausibly true, it means that either the opposition is being engineered or that you have a lot of technically illiterate retards on your hands. Which is always true in 4chan, but usually technically illiterate retards shut up when proven wrong.

>>880010
The reason nobody tinkers with this shit anymore is precisely because the multi-billion dollar IT industry has made it so that a you can create a community at the press of a button instead of renting a server and setting up your own LAMP stack and figuring out how to be a competent server administrator. If you want an imageboard, there's 8ch and endchan. If you want a pseudonymous forum, there's Reddit. If you want a chatroom, there's Discord. If you want a wiki, there's Wikia.

And, for the vast majority of people, who don't want the hassle of maintaining their own web server or fucking with PHP modules or configuring an IRC bouncer, there's no particularly compelling reason not to use these solutions. The opposition for a lot of 4chan here is ideological, that these websites are somehow bad and evil. And of course, if you're planning to link your community from 4chan, everything I've mentioned above other than Wikia is basically banned.

Yes, it's easier to host your own imageboard than ever before. Compared to what moot had to do to set up 4chan, it's basically idiot-proof. But most people don't bother today because all the little sites have been cannibalized by the big ones, and because 4chan itself has become hostile to people forming splinter subcommunities. This includes the mods, too. An offhand comment by asan in a /qa/ thread that upwards of 99.99% of 4chan users haven't seen isn't going to overturn years of HE'S A SHILL GET HIM culture, or the fact that most users are convinced that trying to start an external community of any sort and linking it on 4chan is a one-way trip to banland.

>>879949
You very own example of YuYuYu works against you since YuYuYu threads are typically monthly and the only reason why you perceive such threads as having "some" "quality" is because they aren't daily generals.

>>879620
Isn't hiro 2ch.sc's owner?
Doesn't he then have almost everything available handy for setting up new text boards? He could even host them on 2ch.sc's servers for all I care.

>>879885
>But this is not what the users want.
Our experience differs considerably. 4chan is not a run-of-the-mill forum. It is not reddit, it is not a phpBB forum, it is an imageboard. You are supposed to post an image and a comment, and other people are supposed to reply to that image.

>Do you watch currently airing anime? Every anime tends to get it's own general thread, and for a popular anime, say Flip Flappers, that thread is up 24/7. Is this a bad thing? Do you think Flip Flappers threads should be killed, and people forced to discuss it in random, fleeting threads that don't get remade? If not, then please explain what the difference is between Flip Flappers threads and DJT.
If you have a comment to make about a thing, you should feel enabled to post the comment in a new thread of your own. It's really not that hard to start a thread, which is why the post form is visible at the top of every single page of the site. Your insistence that there should be One Canonical Thread for everything only makes sense in the paradigm of assuming threads are intended to be long-running, permanent forum threads. This is not what 4chan is about. The proof is in the fact that 4chan's board software actively encourages the pruning of old content.

>random, fleeting threads that don't get remade
Yes. You make a thread when you have a thought in your head that you want to share with others. If other people bounce off that thought, they reply to your thread. If your thread only gets 10 or 20 posts in it, that's the way it goes. It just means your thought was only worth 10 or 20 followup thoughts at that point in time-- which isn't a bad thing, at all. You could keep bumping the thread if you want, but if you're not giving any new compelling content, it's likely that your thread isn't resonating with whoever's on the board at the present time.

Also, you can make multiple threads, you know. Making one thread at a time is boring. Posting multiple threads, having multiple conversations going on simultaneously, is an aspect of the board software that is so fundamental to the user experience that we would set up technological measures to enforce an Only One Thread Allowed Per Topic policy on the software or moderation level if that was the intended use of the site. (Note that there's a difference between posting and flooding, and if you need that explicitly explained to you then you're a moron.)

You can make a Flip Flappers thread that's about the plot of the latest episode; or you can make a Flip Flappers thread about how aspects of two characters' relationship are outlined by a series of shots across multiple episodes; or you can make a thread about how Flip Flappers is stylistically and compositionally descended from Space Dandy S2E5 (which was an episode directed by Kiyotaka Oshiyama, the director of Flip Flappers). You can make a thread asking a question about a given musical cue, or you could even post a thread asking why Papika is barefoot so much and what that means for her characterization or talking about how it's lewd and makes you blush a whole bunch.

If you just tried to shove any of these thoughts into a single general Flip Flappers thread, it's likely that any one of them would be ignored in the midst of an ongoing conversation among a smaller subset of people who were only actively caring about whatever specific topic of conversation was going on right at that moment inside that particular thread. Why would you go out of your way to limit the number of potentially-interested parties who would have loved to respond to your post by not offering every other person currently on the board the chance to see and respond to your thread?

And who's to say that your thread isn't thought-provoking enough to stimulate lively, nuanced discussion? We love that shit. We want people to talk about a variety of different topics. We want people to use the board to its fullest potential without being locked down to a stifling paradigm of "one thread per show".

However, if you don't want to start a new thread for a throwaway thought that actually fits best inside an already-existing thread, you should be able to do that. Just don't sit there and try to suggest that that's the ONLY way, or even the INTENDED way, to use this board and this site.

>>880000
>8 hours ago
>unchecked dub quads
pick one

>>879626
>along with hundreds of concerned inquiries from the userbase and reports and emails and IRC messages over the course of many months.
There are dedicated shitposters too you know? Like that BR faggot. Hell people always complain about shit, "muhhhh blue board", "muuh not anime or manga related (when it clearly is)" "muh it's manga so it's ok to make multiple threads (when RBWY manga happened)". There are people who just hate /a/ for being /a/, and some of those faggots just post there to shitpost and fuck /a/ up.

>>879741
>And /a/ very fucking much uses other chans
[Citation Needed]

>>880468
This is a concern that hasn't been talked about enough. Ever since I've began using /a/, in 2011, there has been brigading and concentrated shitposting attempting to apparently do nothing else than to make /a/ worse. DJT was subject to quite a lot of this brigading, and where these problems could have been fixed with moderation, they instead caused moderation to delete the threads.

I don't think it's possible for moderation to deny the existence of these serial shitposters, and giving them what they want seems horribly perverse.

>>880480
Why is it always generals who have this paranoid delusion that someone or a group of people are after them and pulling fucking psyops on their shitty threads?

>>880484
DING DING DING

>>880484
>Why is it always generals
It's not exclusive to generals, see my RWBY manga example.

>>880493
RWBY sucks and is bad. General threads also suck and are bad. It's possible for more than one thing to suck and/or be bad, in differing amounts depending on the specifics of what the thing are, y'know!

Why are you so hell-bent on trying to turn 4chan into every other forum out there when even the people who run the fucking website are telling you that you're a retard for thinking that's a good idea?

>>880484
Because of easily observable recurring posting patterns. Do you remember the "Fate/Extra is not canon" shitposter, pre-UBW anime, who would attempt to derail every single fate thread? Do you remember the anime shitposter in DJT earlier this year? Have you seen the war on /wowg/ by /nost/ that is going on at this very moment?
What makes you think that there AREN'T people who are after us and pulling fucking psyops on my shitty threads?
Why should moderation tolerate them? If groups of shitposters are going after these threads and others, shouldn't they fight them with bans and word filters?

>>880496
>RWBY sucks and is bad.
Pfft, no.

>>880496
It does suck and it is bad, and I do report those threads because it's not anime or manga, but the problem is brigading, and people "pulling psyops on our shitty threads", which is an observable, provable, and factual occurance.

>>880498
Yes, it does; and yes, it is.

http://animationdissection.libsyn.com/case-001-rwby

>>880498
Not even /co/ likes it, deal with it.

>>880496
I'm specifically talking about some shitposter's hate boner here, not about generals in itself.

>everything has to be white or black

>>880501
>>880503
Heh, wrong.

>general users look for boogymen again: the posts
Anyone who actually enjoys 4chan itself doesn't enjoy generals. If a person enjoys generals, they just view 4chan as a site to host their generals: they don't care about 4chan.

>>880184
Firstly, you're brilliant and I apologise for ever doubting you. I will have to watch Space Dandy sometime.

And you're right, I was never suggesting you turn /a/ into /vg/. Non-general threads have just as much of a right to exist as generals do, there's no argument for killing them.

I love the varying OPs on different little topics and if every OP was a resource pastebin or "really feeling that writer change", the threads would be worse off for it. In fact, maybe we generals should be trying to vary our OPs more, to incite more varied discussion. /ai/ did this really well, I think, other generals could maybe try and be more creative.

Where then do we disagree? Well, I don't think a post outside the current thread is more likely to be seen and appreciated. If I'm a Flip Flappers fan, I'm sitting in the thread for that and reading every post, because that's the topic I'm interested in. I'm not sitting in the catalog and reading every OP, because the majority of them are topics I don't care about. I don't think you're limiting the number of potentially-interested parties in my post, I think they're much more likely to see it here, while preventing a bunch of randoms who don't have any interest in my show and my idea from seeing it. And it's definitely not the case that the thread only has one specific topic of conversation going, and other ideas get ignored, we'll always see multiple lines of discussion going on simultaneously, new ones popping up and old ones dying off.

Now, sometimes I'll be wrong, sometimes people will find this new thread interesting and it will spark lively discussion. And that's fine. But generals have their place too, not that you seem to disagree with me about this, given the number up.

>>880572
>generals
>creative
Those are opposites. Also, your use of two newlines between every sentence shows that you don't belong here.
>sitting in the catalog
That's the not the point. The point is you look at page 1 and 2 for things you've never seen before. If you don't like new things, make a flip flapper fansite or wikia.
>preventing a bunch of randoms
You're disgusting. Why would you want your conversations to take on the aura of a secret club?
>given the number up
Quality > quantity. The quantity of generals will never make them good.

>>880584
>Also, your use of two newlines between every sentence shows that you don't belong here.
Why are the most vocal 4chan users obsessed with outsider "tells" that don't mean jack shit?

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>>880572
>while preventing a bunch of randoms who don't have any interest in my show and my idea from seeing it.
Glad to see you're so confident in your posting career that you want to actively segregate your contributions from the site away from people you don't already know you agree with. This attitude is extremely rude and antisocial and I'm kinda disappointed in you!

>>880612
I think the idea is that trying to force a website to conform to a style of discourse that it isn't designed for is an attempt to artificially induce a change of character. 4chan was built to operate a certain way. It is a website that predates the paradigm of web-based applications, but the site has a certain mode of operation that users are expected to adapt to, socially, lest they self-ostracize. What general proponents are trying to do, in effect, is to establish traditional forum usage patterns on top of a platform that wasn't designed for them so that they can take advantage of the traffic patterns the site has, which is kind of rude? Please don't be rude on the internet.

>>878787
>>878789
>>878791
>>878792
>>878793
holy FUCK is this the kinda dude that makes up nu-neo-/jp/ these days????

>>880621
I just want to talk to people who've actually seen the show we're talking about. Is that so wrong? There's no reason they can't come into the thread and see my posts if they want, but where's the benefit of people who won't know what I'm talking about being exposed to my posts? Do you go to threads for shows you haven't seen? I don't because I hate the risk of spoilers and because their conversations will make no sense to me, and I assume other people are the same.

>>880660
Why do you insint on making subreddits in 4chan?

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>>880660
>where's the benefit of people who won't know what I'm talking about being exposed to my posts?

is this dude serious? can anyone be this retarded?

>>880660
This is the exact kind of exclusionary thought process that 4chan is not about. If the site were meant to segregate users via thread, you'd see a page with nothing but thread titles that you'd click in order to view just that thread in isolation.

Instead, we see a flat board, free from such hierarchy, where "everyone shares the same space" is SUCH A FUNDAMENTAL CONCEPT that you actually have the ability to see all posts in a thread right on the board itself. There's no separation. You can even view all threads at once, without being separated into pages.

What you're looking for is not 4chan. You're looking for reddit, or an VBulletin site.

You don't care about the community you claim to be a part of. You're a leech, and you want to plant your "general thread" flag in the middle of an existing userbase because you suck at fitting into a rich community.

You're so wrong about everything that if I didn't know any better I'd swear you were deliberately shitposting for the sake of getting people's emotions riled up. But you aren't: you're being 100% serious, and that's incredibly disappointing.

>>880670
The same reason /jp/ shits on secondaries.

>>880621
Trying to keep out "randoms" might not make sense on /a/ where the board has a unified character, pretty much everybody is watching some good number of airing shows, and the board is populated enough that you can always find people who've seen a thing. It makes much less sense in /jp/, which has walked a long and winding road away from /a/. How many /a/nons are following Flip Flappers? Probably over a thousand. You can't count on anything like that in /jp/ with any series other than Touhou Project.

For example: let's say you've played a thoroughly mediocre eroge that came out last week. You could make a new thread for it, in which case the 75% of /jp/ that doesn't know Japanese wouldn't be able to participate in it. Of the remaining 25%, 20% of them probably don't give a shit about it because it's a completely unremarkable moege, and wouldn't participate in it in any case. That leaves 5% of the board that's even capable of contributing to your thread, out of whom maybe two entire posters will respond - and both of them already post in Untranslated VN General. So why not just go there?

It gets even worse once you leave a /jp/ flagship topic like eroge. If it's a question about a joke one of the girls made on the most recent episode of "AKB48 no Anta, Dare?", or a detailed question about a particular bullshit mahjong situation, or the historical accuracy of the range statistic on Kantai Collection's most recently implemented American dive-bomber, it's simply not realistic that anybody from the "rest of /jp/" will be able to contribute to the discussion in any meaningful way.

There's a reason that pretty much every independent thread on /jp/ is either about Touhou Project, generic Japanese crap, or some sort of imagedump where basically anyone is capable of participating. For most other topics you are unfortunately better served adding your discussion point or question in the nearest relevant general thread.

>>880673
>This is the exact kind of exclusionary thought process that 4chan is not about. If the site were meant to segregate users via thread, you'd see a page with nothing but thread titles that you'd click in order to view just that thread in isolation.
But that's exactly what the catalog is? I'm beginning to think this is just an argument between catalog users and front-page users. To us, we see a bunch of isolated threads and choose the ones we're interested in. To you, you see all the threads and all the posts.
I guess if you didn't want us here, you shouldn't have made the catalog then? But you did, and now we're here, and we feel our method of browsing 4chan is just as valid as yours.

>>880681
Or you could give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that natural curiosity and general friendliness will lead them to, I dunno, actually have a discussion with you about the topic of your thread, saying such things as "She's cute. I like her hair bobbles." or "So this is the famous game SLEEPOVER HIME I saw someone mention the other day. What's the protagonist's deal?" and you can actually engage in dialogue like a fucking human being.

How the hell did you ever learn to like new things? How did you ever meet new people, discover new music, come to new realizations, ever learn ANYTHING about the world you live in if you only limit your domain of social interaction with people you already have a history with?

You have zero empathy, holy shit.

>>880686
oh you deleted and reposted it here

>>880690
The catalog is a way to view thread OPs in isolation but if you'll notice it's also not the main mode of board operation!

Fun fact: it was originally created as a way for moderators to quickly scan a board looking for rule-breaking content, and was rolled out to the rest of the board after Futaba rolled theirs out.

>>880690
>To us, we see a bunch of isolated threads and choose the ones we're interested in.

please stop pretending your reddit mindset is normal. I use the catalog so I can see more threads at once rather than having to click through pages, I still browse as many as possible rather than being a turbo-autist that thinks everyone should stay secluded to their private circlejerk

generals were a mistake and it's sad that mod team is full of so many lazy kikes that only take interest when they want to push a personal agenda on their pet board instead of cracking down on the general cancer when it began

>>880694
Actually it is the main mode of board operation to me, and to a large number of users. Most people I've talked to, which, to be fair, are mostly general users, will never see the front page and only use the catalog. Maybe it wasn't meant to be the main mode, but its convenience and its efficiency has meant it's become the main mode to many users.
A mod could probably check which is more popular if they wanted, right? Could be interesting.

>>880703
I do use the catalog as my main board operator, but to avoid the numerous general chatboxes that flood the front page.

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>>880673
rich community

>>880712
this is a cute anime girl picture and i bet her hair is soft

>>880714
Do not watch that anime, you will cry.

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>>880723

>>880692
>and you can actually engage in dialogue like a fucking human being.
I enjoy talking to randoms. I actually really like newfags. The fact is, though, that in a thread like that you'll mostly be talking to people who aren't going to be able to have a particularly meaningful discussion about a game they haven't or can't read. Many posters aren't looking for that kind of thing.

>How the hell did you ever learn to like new things? How did you ever meet new people, discover new music, come to new realizations,
In the time before the overall generalization of /jp/, I discovered a lot more new things in /jp/ itself. Recently that hasn't been true; most of the genuinely new things I've discovered I've discovered through solitary exploration on the Japanese internet. Tragic, really.

>How did you... ever learn ANYTHING about the world you live in if you only limit your domain of social interaction with people you already have a history with?
It's not about having a history with people, but about having knowledge about a subject. /jp/ - and /a/, to a lesser degree - is full of elitist asshats who think that nobody should ever teach anyone anything they were capable of figuring out themselves. On your first week posting you're taught to lurk more, shut up, read more, learn more, keep your head down, not ask stupid questions, and post only when you have something knowledgeable, insightful, or creative to contribute.

Of course, I very rarely have anything knowledgeable, insightful, or creative to contribute, so I don't post much at all. But hey, that's the breaks.

>You have zero empathy, holy shit.
/jp/ should be a bloody place. That tense atmosphere, where two guys on opposite sides of the U-shaped table can start a fight at any time, the stab-or-be-stabbed mentality, that's what's great about this place. Women and children should screw off and stay home.

What this all really means, though, is that all the empathy was beaten out of me a long time ago.

Catalogs were a mistake anyway.

>>880735
Don't forget about the autonoko and the thread watcher.

All together, those features encouraged 4chan users in big flaming letters to camp out in persistent threads. I don't even know why people act surprised about it.

I miss old jaypee so much.
I miss sage.
I miss comiket threads and downloading loli satori porn from there.
I miss NEET threads despite not being a NEET.
I miss random otakus discussing about things I didn't give a shit about (like trains and powergrids) but still stayed until late reading that because those nerds were really passionate about it.

/jp/ was so cozy. I learned everything I know about how to use an imageboard/be a good anon browsing /jp/. Nowadays the board is just a disaster.

>>880734
>nobody should ever teach anyone anything they were capable of figuring out themselves
I can't see what's wrong with it. It makes person more capable of things and preventing from dealing with the same shit over and over again. You want to know source? Look at the filename, video players put it in the names of screenshots. There is none? Click on the fucking button and google would do it for you in a few seconds. The answer could be in the thread and post itself. Need recommendations? Manage to use mal or /wsr/ or make a thread about the genre you are interested in and you'll be flooded with stuff you haven't seen. You still can simply come and discuss an episode you have just seen, post a girl you'd wana fuck and a guy you find GAR simply as that. Making the poster to use his brain a little is not "they are so elitist they are gatekeeping my anime discussions!!"

Since this is a bit about generals I'd like to lobby for an increase to the image limit on /jp/ so perhaps some of the generals can drop off the board before new threads are made. I don't understand why it's only 300.

Props to moderation for deleting early threads made before reaching the limit when they are reported however.

>>880742
>I can't see what's wrong with it.
The problem is that you get a userbase full of miserable bastards who expect everyone to be a subject expert, all the non-experts are afraid to post for fear of looking stupid (unless they're the kind of poster who enjoys shamelessly posting about all the filthy things they'd do to some character's ears), and since there are only two actual experts in the subject in the entirety of the board the conversation is stilted and sucks. Yeah, it doesn't always work out quite like that, but it's a pattern. It's the shitty endgame you get when people take their own elitism too fucking seriously.

I understand that in /a/, there's a constant problem with hordes of newfags asking how to start watching anime, who spend all day asking stupid questions and begging to be spoonfed, and could solve all their problems by lurking for one week. /jp/ does not have this problem. /jp/ has the problem where the users expect you to have passed Kanji Kentei 1 before you're allowed to have an opinion on a Japanese-language work and everyone is always trying to one-up or piss on someone else.

I've been on /jp/ since the day of the split. When the immature kiddies kept with /a/ the older population moved to /jp/. The reason was simple, it takes a lot more experience and learning to play visual novels in Japanese and Touhou games are generally inaccessible to any but hardcore fans.

/a/ wishes it had the anime experience of /jp/. We would talk rings around them. One thing is certain about the site, we have always been among the most respectable boards with a board culture that answers questions, shares content (I miss Hong Meiling's doujin dumps after conventions), and uses sage politely.

Another thing has always been certain about the site. It is a place of general threads. From the old Pangya threads and Aika to idols, NEET living, Vocaloids and iDOLM@STER we have had topical threads from the beginning. Whenever people complained in the past we always said 'if you don't like it, hide it'.

It seems to me that you're new to /jp/ and you want it to be like other corners of 4chan. There are probably very few original members of /jp/ left but there's certainly a few and I think we especially would appreciate it if you left us alone and don't try and kill the last remnants of what once was the best place on 4chan.

Above all else, please take our advice and get out of /jp/.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCSM4W8vk3Q

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In a thread for /jp/ with /jp/sies ranting against the mods simply not caring and dumping any unwanted /a/ garbage onto /jp/ without any concern for /jp/, this very thread was taken over by /a/'s wonderful userbase. Better yet, one of the mods that heals /a/ by removing another organ out of /jp/ is here to talk about /a/ in the /jp/ thread! It's so poetic and wonderful, isn't it?
/jp/ got another spin-off a couple days ago, although I guess it was more of a return of one of them. It's just a coincidence as many don't visit 4/jp any more, but I couldn't help but marvel at the timing.

>>880767
I'm OP and I'm a bit disappointed too. It's funny because the thread has taken a drift into discussing the concept of generals and more complex things when my posts were just complaining about 3 particular generals.

>>880763
>Whenever people complained in the past we always said 'if you don't like it, hide it'.
I feel like the glasses you're looking at /jp/ with are a bit too rose-colored. /jp/ loved arguing and complaining. Fast-forwards today and I'm pretty sure the average /a/non has watched considerably more anime than the average /jp/sie by now.

>>880771
For most people dissatisfied with /jp/, JAV, MGG, and DJT are nothing more than footnotes in /jp/'s long and sordid history, not pressing problems whose removal would fix the board. /jp/ is a landmine filled with abandoned aspirations and failed dreams. Every day it deflates a little more, as people get more and more used to the new normal.

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>>880763
>>880767
Remember, /jp/ has always been nothing more than a trashcan for crap that doesn't fit into /a/ and you fags should stop acting like you're hot shit. It was /created/ for that very specific purpose.
Pic related.

Or in other, /jp/ terms
その上から目線はやめろって

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/jp/ is FUCKING dead, so just give up and go somewhere else. I won't have any respect for you if you still browse that shitheap.

>>880791
>>880767
I never visited a /jp/ spinoff that I had any respect for. If I did, I would have left a long time ago.

>>880794
Neither have I. There's no 'real' /jp/ spinoff, and those that exist are just generals in form of boards for old shitposters to flock in. Who said that it has to be a /jp/ spinoff anyway?

>>877181
What is your pathetic board even for these days?
/jp/ users seem to whine endlessly about the board being stale and dead, yet they don't welcome any new content at all, even when it is topical.

You started as "japanese culture", and now you're "otaku culture" (whatever that means), how the fuck is DJT not related to either of those things?

You discuss VNs and other non-anime non-manga japanese VNs but monster girls are not ok? you don't even allow Muv Luv either

You don't really have a purpose anymore, you're just a small, isolated group of individuals that discuss a limited number of arbitrary topics and will resort to playing victim whenever mods threaten your safe space by bringing new people in by moving content to where it belongs in the first place.

>>880813
>how the fuck is DJT not related to either of those things?
The Japanese language is no more inherently "otaku culture related" than computers are. Both of them are existences fundamental to otaku culture. But they're just infrastructure, no more inherently related to otaku culture than English language learning discussion is to Hollywood. That said, I don't actually give a shit about the thread itself. If moderation wants to carve a slot for it in /jp/ inside or outside of the rules, I really could care less (but not much less).

>You discuss VNs and other non-anime non-manga japanese VNs but monster girls are not ok? you don't even allow Muv Luv either
Nobody ever had a problem with MGQ. /jp/ had great fun with it back in the day. You're not discussing MGQ anymore. The Schwarzesmarken / Total Eclipse / Muv Luv threads aren't in /a/ because they were kicked out of /jp/ by mods or anyone else; they're in /a/ because none of the users in it want to be in /jp/, and the mods never bothered trying to move it.

>will resort to playing victim whenever mods threaten your safe space by bringing new people in by moving content to where it belongs in the first place.
No community should ever be forced to have an established community dumped into it from another board. If the content belongs in /jp/, then it should have been there in the first place for /jp/ to raise, not quietly tolerated in /a/ up until it became too big and cancerous for /a/ to control and THEN dumped into /jp/ after becoming too far gone to salvage.

>>880785
Yes, but it so happened that /a/'s trash was a treasure for many other people and in short time /jp/ became a board with its own culture and values.
Sometimes in a show a side character ends up becoming the favorite.

>>880811
>There's no real /jp/ spinoff
Literally Bunbunmaru.

>>880824
>not quietly tolerated in /a/ up until it became too big and cancerous for /a/ to control and THEN dumped into /jp/ after becoming too far gone to salvage.

This is literally how your board was born, you should not be surprised that this is how it grows.

Furthermore, you forgot to green text the most important part.

>What is your pathetic board even for these days?
Seriously, you keep talking about "culture" and "values" and "content that belongs in /jp/", but what does any of that even mean? It seems nobody knows, not moot, not hiro, not the mods, nobody except the 15 or so /jp/ users that keep yelling "leave /jp/ alone pls".

>>880826
I don't know. That place always struck me more as an /a/ thing.

>>880826
>This is literally how your board was born, you should not be surprised that this is how it grows.
/jp/ was made to take crap off /a/, but the early days of /jp/ were an anarchic free-for-all. Every man had his chance to make a mark on the board. as abusive as that process might have been. Imported general thread communities are different. They're entrenched community whose cultures can't be changed by anyone, that wouldn't be one bit different if given a permanent ghetto on some unlisted corner of 4chan.

>what does any of that even mean? It seems nobody knows, not moot, not hiro, not the mods, nobody except the 15 or so /jp/ users that keep yelling "leave /jp/ alone pls".
Everybody has their own vision of /jp/, but the desire to be left alone is pretty universal.

I think that portrait of it painted in the /jp/ theme song linked by >>880763 does a pretty good job.

>>880849
Sorry, misquoted; should have been responding to >>880834

This is the /jp/ theme song now. A bit outdated and not so accurate but still relevant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZL-hucSsfY

>>880858
did somebody seriously sit on their cat

because that is a fucking hilarious image

>>880849
>>880763
That's some serious illusions of grandeur you have there.

You can think of yourself as an oppressed culturally elevated group all you want, but at the end of the day, you're basically just taking over a small portion of 4chan for the personal interests of a limited closed group. A stale board that has no defined purpose is just a waste of bandwidth and has no place on 4chan, it should definitely not be left alone but either straightened the fuck up or dumped altogether, much like a NEET leeching off his parents. Go make your own board, you leeches!, you contribute nothing to the 4chan household.

>>880862
I sit on my cat on purpose. Also, go fuck yourself.

>>880871
>You can think of yourself as an oppressed culturally elevated group all you want, but at the end of the day, you're basically just taking over a small portion of 4chan for the personal interests of a limited closed group.
That's every board. Even /a/ was made for that purpose, for people who didn't want to discuss anime in /b/.

>A stale board that has no defined purpose is just a waste of bandwidth and has no place on 4chan
Who died and made you administrator? What was the "purpose" of 4chan, again?

>you contribute nothing to the 4chan household.
No board contributes anything to the "4chan household" except ad impressions and pass money, not /a/ nor /b/ nor any other. If there's anyone with illusions of grandeur running around it's you.

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>>880572
You are different because you want to talk about x with people who like x instead of talking with /a/. You even just admitted it here. Generals don't have a place even with this argument because your goal is to split the board instead of unify it or at least have all the different groups interact with each other. I have had more interesting discussion talking with people who hate things I like than talking with people who like them. Shitposters isn't an argument, they exist eitherway.

I was going to wrote a big post about how you are just an anti-social piece of shit and the like, but I'll pass. Instead, WHY are you even here? Why did you come to a website with a certain design, structure and posting format that enables very certain things? Why did you come to a site with these certain things despite the fact these things are the /opposite/ of what you want? Why are on posting on something that isn't what you want and trying to change it? Did you come for anon posting? Because that is a flimsy as fuck excuse. Did you come for the 4chan culture and its subtleties? Most of that has already been exported and you can experience it elsewhere. Not just that, pretty much /all of it/ was something that was birthed and matured through the chans native format. That stuff isn't being generated in the general format. Does that mean you come here for the original content, memes and the like? Because fuck you if you are, that just makes you a filthy fucking leech. Not just that, again, the originality of the place came from the native format and the general format is actually killing it. So why, why are you here? Why are you on a place that is everything you don't want and attempting to change it to no different to 90% of the rest of the internet?

Why did you come to a community that FUCKING HATES YOU and demand it change for you and then cry to the mods that you rightfully belong here as well when your existence is threatened?

>>880826
No, it's 4taba
https://4taba.net/proletaria

>>880647
His nick's Sussman, so I assume that unlike you, he has read SICP.

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>>880000
n i c e

>>880811
>There's no 'real' /jp/ spinoff

literally gnfos 2.0
or ota for neo-/jp/

>>881452
Your examples illustrate more perfectly than any other why real /jp/ spinoffs don't exist.

>>881456
Looks to me like you're neo-neo-/jp/ or a general shitter, so of course the many and varied spin offs wouldn't cater to you. They're not supposed to!

>>881459
>Looks to me like you're neo-neo-/jp/ or a general shitter,
gnfos is where you'd go if you wanted to hang out exclusively with shitposters who found /jp/ in 2011. ota is garbage in a more ordinary way. Nobody in either was posting since the split, and probably weren't even here in 2010.

>>881452
Those are just a bunch of circlejerks. If you told me those were some kind of /r9k/ spinoffs I wouldn't doubt it. ota is better but its users are chronic shitposters.

>>881471
>Nobody in either was posting since the split, and probably weren't even here in 2010

Yeah dude and nobody on /jp/ was posting before late 2013. I know which option I prefer

>>881479
>Yeah dude and nobody on /jp/ was posting before late 2013.
I have incontrovertible personal knowledge that this is false, so take your shitposting elsewhere.

None of the /jp/ spinoffs were good when they were founded, but of them all, gnfos was by far the worst. The founding users of the board spent most of their time on /jp/ actively exterminating the previously existing culture. How you can defend it and then pretend it somehow represent old /jp/ is utterly beyond me, you disgusting revisionist fuck.

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>>880673

>Instead, we see a flat board, free from such hierarchy, where "everyone shares the same space" is SUCH A FUNDAMENTAL CONCEPT that you actually have the ability to see all posts in a thread right on the board itself. There's no separation. You can even view all threads at once, without being separated into pages.

>What you're looking for is not 4chan. You're looking for reddit, or an VBulletin site.


HOLY SHIT thank you! This what i've been trying to say for years but I can't lay my arguments out as well as you. I go on the same boards I always have the last few years and this noticeable shift towards generals has alienated me; it's just a bunch of portals into recurring topics I have no or hardly any part of anymore. Maybe it's just a new generation leaving me in the dust? It's been practically impossible until now to voice any dissent on the state of the board against generals as well thanks to the janitor of the last few years.

Thanks for at least trying to address this.

>have 50 threads about the same topic
>people get mad
>concentrate all posts into one topic
>people get mad

>>881650
>>have 50 threads about the same topic
>autists get mad because they dont understand how the website works

>>880697
>and it's sad that mod team is full of so many lazy kikes that only take interest when they want to push a personal agenda on their pet board instead of cracking down on the general cancer when it began

https://foolz.fireden.net/a/thread/52342089/#52343334
This explains exactly what went on with /a/ five years ago.

(22:07:29) asan: ~
(22:07:30) asan: tilde
(22:07:35) asan: ~~~~~~

What did you mean by this, Anonymous-san?

>>881836
tildes are cute I'm cute

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>>881836

All general template threads that plague /a/ should be dumped in /jp/.

After all, /jp/ is the trash can of /a/.

>>881854
>>880785
>IS THIS AN ANIME OR A MANGA?
If it is: it can stay on /a/ but not as a general
If it isn't: it can fuck off to /jp/ and stay a general for all I care

So is /lang/ going to be mad yet

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>>881837
す…すみません、聞いてください!
僕は…僕はアさんのことがずっと好きでした
つ…付き合ってください!

>>882089
無駄だぜ嬢(?)ちゃん
そんなことしてもあいつは動じねぇんだよ

>>880767
Can you blame an /a/ mod caring more about /a/ than /jp/ ?

>>881854
/a/ is the trash can of /jp/
/jp/ gets VNs and all you get is anime.

>>882185
Yes. He should care about all of 4chan.

>>877823
None of that has explained how removing DJT has improved /a/ other than to satisfy some autistic retard.

>>882698
Read the thread.

>>882698
it's amazing that for the past six years people have been screaming BRING BACK MODCAT and now that he's here again people are not only bitching about him doing the exact things people praised him for when he was the main /a/ moderator, but that his predictions for what the proliferation of general threads would do to the board ended up being freakishly accurate so many years later

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>>882155
やってみないとわからないじゃないか
ぼ…私ならできるさ!
アさんを落としてみせる!

>>881506
Since you posting steamed janny I don't understand why you're praising him.
It's only being "addressed" on /a/, by removing some of them and moving others to /jp/, which this thread was about. The only reason a mod is even commenting here is for /a/.
Thanks again, asan, for derailing the thread into /a/ shit in a /jp/ thread. Feel free to ignore this being pointed out again so you can post a reaction image to some tard fellating you. Will /jp/ ever get staff that give a damn about it? (Except for some great janitor work for the most part)

>>883478
Of course it did. The problem that you brought up had DJT in it. Of course they are going to make the fucking thread about /a/. If you want to talk about /jp/, you'll have to do it without bringing up DJT otherwise they'll make it about themselves and /a/ because its a recent and current ongoing matter.

The thread was derailed within the first few posts at the start long before anon-san came. So really, you are complaining about nothing. The thread was about /a/ as when it was made.

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>>879748
>Tell me, what kinds of threads are going to fill up /jp/ if we get rid of the shitty Touhou threads? It probably isn't going to be anything good.
40 abandoned AKB generals because they will never stop spamming eachother with their oshi wars.

>>880001
>Without generals and image dumps, good threads could persist without a post every day and slow-to-start threads would have a chance to take off.
If your thread cannot manage one post in 24 hours maybe it's not a popular enough topic for an imageboard. Consider a dedicated hobby forum.
>>>/jp/15892577 78 days old
>>>/jp/15884947 80 days old
>>>/jp/15948476 66 days old

All sustained by one or two people's autism that they don't want to see their thread die.
This should not exist, imagedumps are fine but dump your fucking images and get out don't drag your attempt at discussion over the course of 3 fucking months when its clear nobody is biting.

>>879949
>Examples: see /vg/ vs /v/, would you not agree /vg/ has far higher quality discussion than /v/ on average?
Jesus christ no. Have you ever been to a /vg/ thread? There's only a handful that actually talk about the game and the rest is community drama, spam, and ERP.
KATAWA SHOUJO, A 5 HOUR VN A BEST.
3,224 THREADS.
YOU COULD POST EACH WORD FROM THAT VN AS A SINGLE POST, FOLLOWED UP WITH A LITERARY ANALYSIS AND THE ETYMOLOGY OF THE WORD ON THE NEXT POST AND STILL NOT REACH THIS MANY THREADS.

>>880739
Blame Warosu

>>880744
Don't be an idiot, /jp/ was already the first and continues to be a snowflake board with the highest image limit (especially in comparison to bump limit) on the site. I know, because I was the one that got moot to do it back then for exactly that reason. You don't remember back when Kancolle threads were dumping at 150 images and the big shitstorms resulting from "wasting images"?

https://warosu.org/jp/thread/S11921949

Maybe people would be encouraged to make more threads if janitors weren't so trigger-happy
https://warosu.org/jp/thread/S16262212

Why was this thread deleted? It's an interesting topic.
Maybe it was deleted because it's not otaku culture. But then, are sex toys, random pictures of Japan, and DJT otaku culture?

>>883625
>/jp/ was already the first and continues to be a snowflake board with the highest image limit (especially in comparison to bump limit) on the site
Not anymore. /vip/ has both bump and image limit of 300.

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>>883625
>"wasting images"?
Holy shit is this autism annoying. People still do it in some places. eg. dumping a just translated manga in a cancer general related to it. People complain about some real dumb shit here, but fuck me is this some of the dumbest bullshit I have seen people complain about. It reeks of new that is so new it doesn't even know what the purpose of the bump and image limit is for.

>>883636
Clearly they wanted it to be the 2d/random board like everybody always claims they want, complete with SJIS functionality that /jp/ got initially.

Did you know /jp/ was also the first board to get webm (and with sound) support until the sound got removed? We were pretty obviously the testing grounds.

>>883645
It's the same general cancer mindset that they have to CONSERVE their threads and images, because they thing threads are a finite resource that more can't be made. Almost definitely why the last mod post was telling the monster fags to shut the fuck up about it in a more polite way.

At least the AKB threads don't give a fuck but then that just leads to retarded waifu wars where they spam eachother with images to try and prove their girl is the best girl and we get 6 abandoned threads on the board.

>>883663
>Did you know /jp/ was also the first board to get webm (and with sound) support until the sound got removed?

Wasn't it /g/? I remember /jp/ getting them earlier than other boards

>>883663
>Clearly they wanted it to be the 2d/random board like everybody always claims they want.
I didn't really seem that way to me.

>>883666
https://warosu.org/jp/thread/12018726
https://warosu.org/g/thread/S41175103

Was tested on /jp/ before it was pinned on /g/.

>>883669
I didn't say they did a GOOD job, but that looks like at least a half assed attempt at it.

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>>883478
>/jp/, which this thread was about
/qa/ is about 4chan as a whole

>Feel free to ignore this being pointed out again so you can post a reaction image to some tard fellating you.
pic related

>>883630
(also, I've talked to the janitor who deleted that thread, because I don't think it should have been deleted either, considering it was an interesting topic and at the very least unique and actually had discussion in it)

as for whether or not that will result in /jp/ easing up on moderation in *general*, I can't say right now, because from what I understand /jp/ has been the subject of extremely strict and autistic moderation in the past so everybody is kinda traumatized into posting "safe" topics, which is what gives us the behavior where everything looks like a general thread.

Whatever happened to /jp/'s motto being ゆっくりしていってね? C'mon, you guys remember that! We gotta stay positive and happy and have fun with our friends on the good website. Ya~y.

>>883478
HA SEE IT IS RELEVANT TO /jp/

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>>883478
ps here have another cute anime picture. this one is a good nico. get it "1125 = ii niko"

>>883751
It's hard to take it easy when the janitor randomly deletes threads that he deems off-topic but the AKB general is allowed to have 4 or 5 threads up at the same time.

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>>883752
can you bring back /l/? or at least make loli/shota kosher on the 2D boards?

>>883771
anime is cute and good

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>>883779
Is that you?

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>>883788

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>>883752
The only good nico is a beaten Nico.

Also, while we are off-topic and you are still hanging around I remembered something I hope a mod would show up to deal with.
https://myanimelist.net/anime/34019/Tsugumomo
This is airing next april. To put it short, if its a faithful adaptation, another nipplemod situation is almost guaranteed in the current climate. While its good, its also fucking lewd to the point of just barely not being hardcore porn. So it might be a good idea to get someone to go on /a/ and do the nsfw rules PROPERLY before it airs to avoid an unneeded shitstorm. Hiro's bullshit fixed nothing.

>>883788
>>864972

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>>883798
noooo nico is good. sora is good too. she loves nico and nico is sora and she will live in her heart forever

>>883798
>https://myanimelist.net/anime/34019/Tsugumomo
also this show looks bad, but it's anime and if it airs on TV it can go on the board. I will bring it up

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>>883811
Bad taste my man. The story is actually pretty well executed albeit a bit standard, but I guess the main selling point really is the art. Which also follows incredibly 3dpd realistic proportions. Most of which I can see getting myself a ban if I try to post here. So the problem will mostly stem from when the series gets to the highly detailed proper body proportions kiddy fiddling and I mean actual fiddling, not head pat type shit.

>>883838
oh no it's lewd between her legs

>>883838
I mean, PRISON SCHOOL is incredible, but that manga/show has as its primary motivator a character-focused study of sexual repression and it's also about goofy horny teens fumbling in the dark to find themselves (and each other) so it's incredibly endearing on that level

So if this is like that, maybe it's good

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>>879949
>Examples: would you not agree /vg/ has far higher quality discussion than /v/ on average?
Only in the sense that /vg/ isn't (usually) a giant screaming pit of howler monkeys. When a new game or update has been released, there's material for a general to discuss but between releases it's usually just people bumping their thread with art/fics or talking about their waifus while occasionally helping out newbies to the franchise or game genre. Katawa Shoujo is an extreme example of generals being forced when there's little to no discernible need for it outside of a small group of core users, but the patterns in that thread can be seen in others. The only reason why certain threads last as long as they do is because it's mildly inconvenient when a thread dies and because there's an off chance that someone might want to talk about a specific game briefly but know that they don't have enough to sustain a thread on its own elsewhere. That's discouraging to a lot of posters. They don't want to think that the things that intrigue them don't intrigue others enough to want to talk about them. A short, dead thread is a failed thread. It feels better for a poster if they can participate in a big thread with lots of "friends" who they can shoot off little, insignificant thoughts to every once in a while.

Serendipity is an important aspect of "old" 4chan culture. Catching a thread about something you like and being able to share that with others for a moment is like finding a beautiful display of autumn leaves and appreciating that moment because you know they'll be dead and gone soon. Compare that to a general where you'll never miss out on anything because all the threads are neatly archived and backlinked and stored forever—provided the offsite archive hasn't died. It's like having a picture of trees for your desktop background that you get used to having there and begin to take for granted. Fleeting beauty vs beauty sustained by force.

/romanticism

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>>883960
And are the blooming sakura trees, glowing red under the light of the autumn sun, a naturally spawned forest, found in the depths of the wilderness, untouched by human hands? Or are they in a specially zoned park dedicated to hanami, planted and raised by council-hired gardeners?

Face it, people want control. People want to tame the wild, to seize the reins of nature and beat it until it follows the rules and laws that we are so used to. You might go tramping in the native bush to see the bounty of Mother Nature, but you'll bring a gas cooker and an emergency beacon, and you'll follow DoC-built paths and sleep in zoned camping grounds/huts. 4chan is no different, you can make a wild free-for-all posting system, you can impose bump limits and encourage spontaneity and creativity all you like, but as long as the users are humans, we will build our own communities, our own rules, our own threads, our own traditions, our own archives, our own homes, and we will fight to the bitter end before we see those taken away.

>>884080
You're already in a community, though. You're on 4chan. 4chan is a massive community. Then, you're on /a/ (or /jp/, or wherever else).

Your thread is not a community.

>>884080
You're, like, the only person in this entire thread who likes general threads, FYI. Everybody else in here is telling you that your entire mode of thought on the matter is fundamentally incorrect.

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>>880723
The only 'sad' episode was the first one, the rest is fine, albeit mediocre. Tons of great reaction images though.

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>>883751
>HA SEE IT IS RELEVANT TO /jp/
Thank you for talking about /jp/, and I mean this sincerely. I assume you can see my IP and see that I'm the same guy.
>ゆっくりしていってね
I wouldn't post like this on /jp/, at least outside of the newly-moved generals which is tradition to rant against.
/jp/ has 30 or so generals and gets more all the time. With your opinion on generals, which I strongly agree with, how would you feel if that was /a/'s situation? Please try to understand "our" view.

>>884117
>albeit mediocre
Do not bully Kotoura, you fuck.

>>883663
Why do you want a bunch of dead threads clogging the board?

>>884418
I think you've completely misunderstood me, but whatever. It's not like anything we say here will change anything without hiro swooping in to make a completely off the wall change for the sake of change.

>>884560
Email Hiro with a list of /jp/ only topics and tell him to ban the rest.

>>884570
This is a terrible fucking idea, even if mentioned ironically

>>884642
It's what true /jp/ wants.

>>884570
I really am glad no users of 4chan have any damn mode of contact with Hiro. Being able to chat with him like people did with moot truly would be one of the biggest mistakes ever made.

It's incredibly stupid that the moderators have fucking missed the whole concept of image / textboards somehow and are trying to impose what they think the ideal of it is like.

Asan, you're retarded. Straight up. You're straight up someone that has never, ever gone on 2ch. Or seen other textboards. How they operate, the influence 4chan has taken from prior boards.

You know how 2ch solved this problem? They have 'general' threads or 'subreddits' you so call them. They're called boards. 2ch has literally HUNDREDS OF BOARDS all dedicated to specific topics very similarly to general threads. Yet here on 4chan we have such a huge fuckin' fear of adding any new boards that it's absolutely ridiculous.

General threads are a direct result of users trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. They want to discuss specific things on a more free-form board, but these things have to be forced into a board that is far too wide for their narrow topic. Hence you see general threads for things like learning Japanese. As long as 4chan keeps growing this issue will only get worse as users want to talk about more niche things but end up getting pushed out by more 'normie' topics.

Which in an ironic twist, the current layout of boards favors exactly that. The more popular and common-place end up destroying the niche and less popular. Again, general threads are the way of the community fighting back against that by artificially keeping threads and communities alive so that they can actually discuss the thing that they want. Otherwise their threads are quickly pruned.

>>884180
If you posted "take it easy" without a yukkuri abuse image as a thread, it'd be deleted for "being a NEET thread"

>>884679
>far too wide for their narrow topic
Wide board: diameter 5 metres
Narrow topic: diameter 2 metres
Narrow topic fits in wide board with room to spare for second topic.

>>884679
this is true but will sadly fall on deaf ears in favor of allusions to how things worked in The Good Old Days of 4chan.

moot had some kind of pathological fear of adding new hobby boards that actually served user demand in a practical way (instead opting for dumb shit like /soc/lgtb/pol/s4s/adv/) and hiroyuki seems to be largely continuing the tradition.

>>884679
Ain't 4chan actually rather trying to emulate 2chan (and then becoming its own thing)?

>>884679
>4chan is trying to emulate 2ch
Kill yourself, you fucking idiot.
4chan is based upon 2chan (Futaba Channel, an imageboard), not 2ch (text boards).

>>885142
image boards evolved from text boards and existed parallel to each other for a long time, both futaba and 4chan had text boards available before they fell out of use due to lack of popularity.

regardless though both futaba and 2ch employ the idea of actually creating new dedicated boards for popular subjects/series, whereas 4chan creates chatroom/hookup boards like /soc/, identity based boards like /lgbt/ and /pol/ and completely meaningless joke boards like /s4s/ and /vip/

>>885065
>>885142
It's called Futaba, not "2chan"・・・

>>885212
And 4chan is Yotsuba, but everyone says 4chan anyway.
Mind you, I write 2chan but pronounce it Futaba.
Yes, I'm a huge faggot.

>>885216
It's really not the same. "Nichan" is how 2ch is pronounced, "2chan" is just Futaba's URL and a pun on 2ch's name/pronunciation.

>And 4chan is Yotsuba
That's a correlation that started a long time after 4chan was created, so it isn't applicable here at all!

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>>885216
>And 4chan is Yotsuba, but everyone says 4chan anyway.
are you stupid..............?

>>885218
There's a banner (dating from when 4chan was still on a .net domain) saying よつば, so it certainly did not "start a long time after 4chan was created".

>>885223
moot didn't start 4chan with "Yotsuba" on mind and that's all that matters.
I'm sorry you're new.

>>885224
Clearly all those references to Yotsuba from Yotsuba to! e.g. in the ban page and the 404 page were all a pure coincidence, right? And what about the site's logo? (four leaves)

>>885226
Holy shit you really don't get what I'm talking about, do you? Well, maybe it's because English isn't my first language so perhaps I'm at fault here.
What you said was irrelevant because moot only named it 4chan on the fly (2chan→4chan LOL!!!). Several months later people were like "so Futaba=2 leaves, 4chan=4 leaves and there's this girl named Yotsuba, wowzers!". Meanwhile Kanrinin-san made Futaba *with the pun in mind*. Big difference here. Nobody calls 4chan "Yotsuba" just like nobody calls Futaba "2chan" (well, only foreigners do).

>>885065
>>885142
If we're talking about software? 4chan was a copy of Futaba, yeah. And Futaba was basically a 2ch backup because 2ch was in danger of shutting down until the UNIX board helped Hiroyuki the dataminer rewrite the software.

Culture-wise? This place was just a hentai dumpster for SA goons. I mean, it tried to copy Futaba memes but all they ended up doing was bastardizing them (see "Waha", "Pedobear", etc) and forgetting them years later. Like an abortion that became more powerful than its mother. It was barely similar to Futaba when it had just started and now the similarities are practically none besides the software (even then, 4chan's software and Futaba's are a lot different nowadays).

So... if you're trying to use Futaba as an excuse or whatever you're either wrong or 13 years late.

Also it's a big fucking shame that one of the oldest mods refers to something that's been a thing on 2ch since ever as "reddit" when that shithole has been popular for, what, only ten years? Probably less.

>>885229
So what?
Why then should we do as 2ch does?
If I wanted to do as in 2ch, I'd go to 2ch or other forums or even, yes, reddit. I did not originally come to 4chan to get the 2ch experience, and still don't. I do come less than I used to because generals started plaguing the boards I used to frequent the most (/a/, /g/ and a bit of /jp/ on the side)

Because, as that old mod said, these sites are much more suited to the kind of discussion format generals tend to invite than 4chan.
It's basically segregated posting in numbered threads (or single threads if we're talking about vbulletin-style forums) where you're expected to know about the threads' rules and history and basic knowledge (see: OP templates) versus ephemeral discussion threads where everyone can post or shitpost and won't get shat on other than for not knowing that board's global meme of the month (and then be invited to lurk more). That's how it used to be.

There ARE boards not following this format on 2ch, but they're mostly shitposting oriented.

You really should stop pushing the "but 2ch!" argument because it doesn't hold any water. 4chan is NOT 2ch and has never tried to be it.

>>885227
I get your point.
Do you have any hard evidence to back it up or will I have to simply believe you? I'll admit I wasn't there back in october 2003, I only joined in 2005.

>>885237
>Why then should we do as 2ch does?
Oh I'm not one of those posts, haha.

Generals promote a certain sort of user and a certain sort of posting, and the mods have done practically nothing against this. Only now they're acting by either outright deleting threads or dumping them on /jp/ as they're known to do whenever they have a problem they don't want to deal with.

Interestingly enough, not all persistent threads are generals. But most are. So I'm the kind of guy who thinks there's nothing wrong with persistent threads but everything wrong with the concept of "generals", be it a textboard or an imageboard.

>Do you have any hard evidence to back it up
It's hard to bring you evidence of a negative, you know!
I don't remember Yotsuba being a thing until later (please bear in mind by "later" I mean "a lot later in the small scheme of things" and "a bit later if you take into account the entire course of 4chan").

It's both hilarious and sad (and telling) that a thread about /jp/ ended up being about /a/.
Even a well-known /a/ mod started hogging all the attention.

>>884679
I hate this mindset so many retards have against the creation of new boards. The worst is that of anons from /a/ who sperg out violently at the mere suggestion of a board for manga, for example. These are the sort of faggots who found 4chan from 2007 onwards and have this delusional idea that the time they came is the One True Culture which ought be eternally preserved, something that is entirely bullshit simply due to the happen stance that the huge increase of posters site wide which was responsible for drawing them into 4chan was also responsible for largely killing off the previously established board cultures of the largest boards at the time.
It's such a dumb double standard. 4chan could work wonders without having the stupidly overpopulated monolithic boards having their own "sub boards", if you will. Basically every time new boards have been added which cater to growing or large enough fan bases of more specialised interest within a larger family hobbies has had an overall positive impact, despite kneejerk claims to the contrary.
Treating the larger and legacy boards like some sort of thematic version of /b/ is really just silly.
It would also make boards easier for janitors to actually monitor.

>>885257
To be fair, the core issues being discusses are underlying issues for the site and /a/ is a larger board with a lengthier history so it's easier to to discuss these underlying issues by using /a/ are a point of reference with /jp/ being a comparison.

>>885267
>It's such a dumb double standard.
Oh I know another one!
Agreeing "hard" with A-san's opinion that you should be on more than one thread at a time yet thinking that making more boards would "fracture the community".

>>885270
I don't really buy into the whole community aspect of those arguments. Yes, obviously we want to discuss things with those of similar mindsets but the entire point of a board is to draw in those with similar interests. The insinuation that "splitting apart" board X by making board Y with a similar but more specific board subject somehow means you will no longer be discussing things with the sorts of people who actually have an interests in those things being discussed simply doesn't seem to make any sense.
Community forms around commonly shared interests, does not it? How would creating a board for a more specific hobby/interest fracture the community of those likeminded individuals who would want to discuss such things? Surely it would have the opposite impact and filter out those who don't really have an interest and merely dropping into threads to randomly post shit simply by seeing the given thread on the catalogue.

What exactly acts as the glue to bond together this "community" these anons refer to?

>>885267
moot was of the mindset that boards are supposed to serve broad topics and users should simply learn to ignore what they don't like.

paradoxically, most people on /a/ agree that it should serve a broad topic, yet nearly no one remembers (or they simply choose to disregard) moot's "ignore shit you don't like" mantra, thus leading to petty shitposting and backseat modding about what is and is not appropriate for /a/.

>>885257
It was said before and it'll be said again. The thread from the very start was about /a/ and /jp/. It was complaining about /jp/ problems will also bringing /a/.

>>885282
>will also bringing /a/.
Because AGAIN a general from /a/ was dumped on /jp/.

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>>885280
It doesn't really help that the pieces of shit known as mods still pull dumb gimmicks like public bans on /a/.

>>885283
That was actually meant to be while. My mistake. Regardless, complaining that /a/ is the topic when /a/ was apart of the topic is fucking stupid.

>>885284
Public bans serve an actual purpose, anon.

>>885286
Yeah, inviting shitposters and inflating a mod's ego.

>>885287
Yea no. Are you an idiot?

>>885285
I think the problem is that it was the topic was "/a/ is ruining /jp/ as usual" and it shifted to "how do we fix /a/?".
You could argue that fixing /a/ should fix /jp/, but seeing how much the mods care about /jp/ (not at all), I doubt it.

>>885288
I hate 4chan for "starting" (stealing it from SA) the whole public ban bullshit.
Treating your users like babies and public executions that only bring in more shitty posts under the excuse of "setting an example" is unforgivable, especially so when you're letting MODS=GODS (as an example) spam roam free.

>>885280
>moot was of the mindset that boards are supposed to serve broad topics and users should simply learn to ignore what they don't like.
The problem here is that m00t was out of touch with both the userbase and with reality, most unfortunately and embarrassingly for himself made widely known with his failed canvas project.
He didn't really understand 4chan and repeatedly made stupid decisions and lack of descisions when it was necessary.

>>885288
the Funny Bold Red Text does nothing but give even more of a sense of a circlejerk and give users an excuse to post inane "memes", devolve the thread into meta crap, and fellate the mod like the other guy said

even worse if they just lock the thread, i mean, if you're gonna do that why not just fucking delete it?

just deleting applies to both cases anyway

>>885286
I'd like you to explain this purpose because all they have ever been used for in my experience is either to stroke the ego of the moderator in question or as a means to create a sudden distraction on the board when they have just done some rather stupid bans or deleted threads and the public ban threads (often the threads themselves obviously made by moderation) serves as a useful way to get people talking about that and drawing attention away from the people complaining about unjust moderation.

>>885293
I don't disagree, I was merely explaining why he let boards become fast, bloated and monolithic in the first place.

To be honest I've been wishing for some time now that 4chan just sank and something closer to a western futaba would rise in its place, but that's just wishful thinking.

>>885292
Not only that but the practice basically makes a mockery of the fact that we have a page with all the site and board rules linked on the home page, which we are expected to become familiar. Public bans in the manner they are executed comes across if anything as a lack of confidence in the effectiveness of having the rules clearly stated out linked on the main page at all. I mean, wouldn't a far clearer system of banning be instead of going crazy with the red text while keeping the thread open, to simply flag the post as banned with a timestamp and link to the rule/s it violated, along with locking the thread? That way it is a clear message to the userbase which rules were broken and why such a thread is not welcome on the site.
Then again, such an approach is also a lot more transparent than both administration and moderation has ever really been comfortable with.

>>885300
>and something closer to a western futaba would rise in its place
Impossible, 4chan poisoned the well known as "imageboard culture", and a bit of the "textboard culture" well.

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>>885306
>textboard culture
The only place closest to 2ch I've seen is a Spanish textboard, funnily enough.
SAoVQ and 4-ch used to be mere bastards of 2ch (in a similar way that 4chan bastardized Futaba in-jokes), and are now filled with 4channers, while very inactive at the same time.

>>879885

>the fact that >90% of the traffic on /jp/ and the like is in generals, is proof that the majority of people like and support them

BULLSHIT, it's just that any dissenting voices were snuffed by the janitor and /jp/ was slowly forced into this shape over the last few years like forcing a round peg in a square hole.

Check warosu around 2013 to most of 2015 even on most random pages and you can find clear animosity towards the janitor over this kind of shit from users tired of the janitor shaping /jp/ into his own personal playground. You clearly don't know what the hell you're talking about.