>>61215233 Calling themselves that doesn't make it true. >>61215711 The Catholic Church literally has a state that dictates the dogma of the Church. The Orthodox Churches are all autocephalous and report to no one, including the state.
>>61215980 desu fair senpai the Orthodox thing is just kind of a meme on /pol/ because we all worship Russians like they're the saviors of Europe.
Actual Catholic theology is much more refined and advanced, that is not even debatable. Byzantine theology did not progress after the Schism because no more ecumenical councils were held and they were too focused on getting BTFO'd by the Ottomans to care. The Catholics continued to refine theology, however, this is why there are more "mysteries" in the Orthodox Church: they didn't know how to solve them.
Again, I'm not arguing for or against either side. I'm just trying to moderate where I see fit.
People don't realise the Pope(s?) said these things lately just because the leftists are so powerful that catholicism , christianity, and even religion in general can be banned from schools and other public institutions. If he wouldn't have said such "flexible" things the media would have chimped out "christians in the 21st century".
This is willful ignorance. It is not against the teachings of the original Church to continue to refine theology. You realize how much Christianity changed between the beginnings of it and the 11th century, right? Heresies and counter-dogmas were constantly encountered, discussed, and either dismissed or adopted.
Orthodoxy stopped doing this after the Schism because they lacked the luxury of time. The Catholics did have this luxury, and so they continued to debate theological issues and develop treatises on it.
Again, I'm not arguing for or against the Catholic Church here. I am Orthodox myself, but you are lying to yourself if you say that studying theology is "heretical," I wish the Orthodox Church had a theology anywhere near as developed as the Catholic Church.
>>61216822 Not true. The catholic Church is still very powerful in places like Latin America. No amount of media bashing could even hurt the catholic presence there. The pope and the rest of the catholic clergy are just trying to win new followers by destroying scripture.
I dont want to answer your question directly because thats a judgement you have to make on your own. But i hope you dont base your opinion of Catholicism on the modernist, post-Vatican II heresy that has taken over. Look at traditionalist Catholicism.
>>61217133 I like traditionalist catholics, but you cannot continue this "fight" against the leadership of your Church. You traditionalist catholics will be driven out of existence or forced out of your own Church.
>>61216875 >Heresies and counter-dogmas were constantly encountered, discussed, and either dismissed or adopted. >adobted. You said it yourself heretic.
Orthodoxy stopped doing this because there is no need to bring heresy into religion. It doesn't need to develop gay marriages. Freezing it is in time forever is right until new divine revelation happens.
We ARE the Church. The popes after Vatican II have all professed to their heresies publicly and can therefor not be considered true popes. This is the Sedevcantist position which is supported by scripture and the teachings of the Church. What many people now consider to be the RCC is in reality a modernist sect which is itself outside of the Church.
>>61217651 >le imaginary sky fairy xDDD Great 3rd graders argument, m8. This is coming from a guy who used to be a euphoric atheist as well: start reading philosophy and theology. You'll see the light again.
There's more to life than physics, statistics, and biology. There are things that science doesn't cover, just as religion doesn't cover science.
>>61217681 You may view yourself as the Church, but people on the outside do not see your likes as the representation of the Church. I love the traditionalist catholics that I have met. I even married one (she is now Orthodox though), but I can't see yourselves winning this fight. Thanks for the link. I don't have time to watch it now but I definitely will. >>61217564 People go away from these degenerate (inb4 degenerate may-may) Western influences when times get tough. You must know this if you lived long enough in Romania. I myself was born in Russia and I remember the 90's there. One reason why Eastern Europe doesn't buy the Western values is because they don't do shit in hard times.
>>61219941 Protestants literally exist because Protestants decided they wanted to each be their own personal God who could interpret Scripture however the fuck they wanted, disregard any Holy Tradition they wanted, and just say "hurr if I believe in Jeebus I'll go to Heaven!"
Fuck off, you're even considered heretics by other heretics.
>>61219262 >I know what you mean, but i was speaking about some parts of the west when i legitimaly think people are beyond the point of recovery.
The West just doesn't remember the pain of hard times and these values are a byproduct of luxury. Things got so bad where I lived to the point where my parents decided to move and send some of their income back home. What is going on here is unsustainable and sooner or later people will go through hard times here too. The true question is how will people here react, we both know that Eastern and Western mentalities are very different (we don't give up unlike Westerners).
Since I am happily married to a catholic girl, I too hope that the Schism of 1054 will be undone. >>61219540 And it nearly brought us to ruin. Looking back, it looks like a miracle that Russia didn't go the same way that Yugoslavia did.
>>61220270 why should I trust a hierarchy of fallible men to teach me in direct contrast to the scripture?
> decided they wanted to each be their own personal God who could interpret Scripture however the fuck they wanted, disregard any Holy Tradition they wanted
Mat 23:8-9 [Mat 23:8-10 ESV] 8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10 Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ.
>>61220315 >Looking back, it looks like a miracle that Russia didn't go the same way that Yugoslavia did. But anon USSR collapsed just like Yugoslavia did along national borders. Disintegration in both cases stopped when newborn counties had majority of one nation.
>>61220757 >And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. >This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you—
Church hierarchy has existed since the very beginnings of Christianity.
But yeah, no, I'm sure that your heretical sect that is younger than my car definitely has all the answers on what Christ REALLY wanted as opposed to, you know, his Apostles.
>>61221258 it's also funny you use a picture of a Catholic church to display the grandeur and therefore legitimacy of the church when, coincidentally the exact same passage, says
[Mat 23:2-7 ESV] 2 "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, 3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice. 4 They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. 5 They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, 6 and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues 7 and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others.
Jesus literally demolished the exact concept of the organized church with 9 verses and you're citing a pun
>>61221745 >HURR IT WAS A PUN Again, I'm going to tell you to blow it our your ass, heretic. The Apostles and every Church Father has constantly defended the structure of the Church, regardless of whether it is Coptic, Orthodox, or Roman Catholic.
Your heretical sect appeared in the 1500s because you simply wanted to be able to make up your own rules.
There are a thousand verses in Scripture that can be translated in support for a church hierarchy, especially a system of deacons, bishops, and archbishops.
There is no specific mention of popes or patriarchs, these simply evolved as the bishops of theologically important cities (Constantinople, Rome, Antioch, Jerusalem, and Alexandria)
But go ahead and keep believing your horse shit. How often does Protestantism schism and form a new church? Like every month or something now? You people are directly responsible for the biggest heresies we've seen since Arianism (Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Calvinists, etc)
Fuck off and die, proddie scum. I'll pray for your soul because I can tell already you're going to burn.
>>61221666 Hi Satan. Here to push the protestant Church are you? Protestantism seems to lead to Atheism. Formerly protestant areas are becoming increasingly atheist. The Scandinavian countries were just the first to slip into atheism it is happening here too. If you don't believe me look at the places where protestantism dominated in the US compared to now. A nation's wealth matters little on the religion.
>>61222061 And who did Kosovo belong to before 2008?
explain how your justification is anything other than the pun
actually let's give it some context
[Mat 16:13-18 ESV] 13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?" 14 And they said, "Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets." 15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" 16 Simon Peter replied, "YOU ARE THE CHRIST, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD." 17 And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
now m8s ur tellin me ur sayin Jesus was not implying "I am the Christ and on this I will build my church" but instead ur sayin Jesus said "I am the Christ and you are Petros, and on this petra I will build my church [therefore you should form a church hierarchy]"
even though the passage I cited IS UNDENIABLY IN DIRECT CONTRAST TO THE IDEA OF A HIERARCHY ( And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. )
and then you're saying that because Christ encourage apostles to find their own replacements and encourage men to become elders and deacons (within their own church) that a global hierarchy is somehow encouraged?
you mind telling me what my own heretic sect is? Because my personal faith is actually probably about 12 years old, not the 1500s, but it was formed by my one instructor, the Christ
but go on and tell me how I'm a heretic because I've based my faith around reading the scripture while you've based your faith around a hierarchy with a doctrine that is in flux every time a new infallible man pope is elected
>>61222059 Why is the church as corrupt an abomination as the Pharisees were when Jesus flipped his shit over them? Why has it rejected the authority of God and substituted it for the blasphemy of man's law? Why did they remove all the sacred traditions which gave meaning to the events of the bible and take up, instead, the whore of Babylon?
Orthodox Christians >first to be around >humble(in it's true form) >absolutely beautiful monasteries >never required people to pay to remove their sins >never actually started an inquisition >peaceful >people actually believe in God >almost never preach or have that "One nation under God" shit >made prophecies that came true >Survived numerous wars and shit
Catholic Christians >pedophiles >"HURR FREEDOM" fanbase >cocky as fuck >is a later invention
>>61220270 >Protestants literally exist because Protestants decided they wanted to each be their own personal God who could interpret Scripture however the fuck they wanted, disregard any Holy Tradition they wanted, and just say "hurr if I believe in Jeebus I'll go to Heaven!"
[1Jo 2:27 ESV] 27 But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie--just as it has taught you, abide in him.
>>61215051 >another Edgyianity /pol/ thread >nobody makes a coherent argument or demonstrates a meaningful understanding of either theology or church history >autistic basement dwellers telling other people they're going to hell while using tons of profanity at the same time >half of these people probably have 100 GB of trap porn on their hard drive >you can tell most of these people have probably never been to either an Orthodox or Roman Catholic church as their behavior doesn't correspond to anything you see in normal and socially well-adjusted Christians, but are basically just internet Christians
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