Bernie will be immediately cucked by the UN once he gets in office. The same as Trudeau was just cucked by the UN today. Bernie's $17 trillion dollar plan will go to fight worldwide poverty, as no one in the US is considered poor by international standards.
>>61121734 >when you realize college age kids buy this crap because they are entitled little pieces of crap >when you realize it doesn't matter what your policies are as long as you can make people think its a good idea >when you realize that people in this country are robbed of their wages then bribed with their own money
>>61122171 I did the math for 1%'s total income and it came out to 2 trillion (I just looked up another estimate that 1% make 20% of all income which means 3t in t), the defense budget is easy to find at 0.6 trillion. It is obvious that you can't have 100% tax brackets so the argument is pretty strong. Generally Bernie bots will default to "healthcare reform will make up the difference :^)"
we've had this thread before. US citizens per capita pay roughly 3x as much on healthcare than canadians. Destroy the current healthcare system, add a small middle class tax, they save money and get healthcare. These ridiculous shitty "sources" discount the fact that PEOPLE WON'T HAVE TO PAY THEIR CURRENT PREMIUMS. It's like they are genuinely retarded.
education can actually be paid for really easily if you look at the money that's actually required for it--not that much. I believe he wants to do it mostly by taxing wall street.
These are such cherry picked, retarded sources, anyone who believes this shit are retarded.
>>61127007 Yeah let me know when you start following that rule and then I'll step into line. I'm not going to waste my time trying to have an adult discussion with people who are only interesting in memes, shitposting, an the lowest common denominator of political discussion.
>>61127272 No it's me acknowledging the obvious reality that the majority of you have no logically sound arguments and would get torn to pieces in a formal academic debate.
>>61127383 I for one am fascinated by how people deal with finding out that they're wrong. It's a fun game seeing how different people react to it.
>>61127424 Yeah and that's misrepresenting Sander's proposals. He's not basing his campaign around direct redistribution of wealth. If you're going to criticize him, pick a policy that he actually has instead of making up bullshit.
>>61127577 I have literally not once said that I support or am voting for Sanders, because I don't and am not. I honestly just want to see if any of you are capable of arguing without memes, shitposting, insults, or logical fallacies. So far all of you have failed miserably.
>>61127577 the superdelegates have also never decided the primaries before. and they aren't going to start doing it. by the end of an election, everyone has dropped out and endorsed one candidate, and the superdelegates almost always endorse that one candidate too. They are extremely likely to change their mind at that point, or the democratic party will be under a lot of heat.
>>61126983 Well it could, but you're making a hell of a coin flip considering the USA sure does love turning shit into x-industrial complexes. Basically a Bernie fag would be outraged if there were one single private health insurance provider, but if it is the government then it is the best damn thing around. What with the government's proven track record of keeping citizen's interests at heart, especially the police who they are so fond of.
The government mucking around in healthcare is annoying shit since they can just arbitrarily decide that everyone has to do something- that is the current state where their bargaining chip is not paying out Medicare/Medicaid bennies. That alone means they can push things like HITECH and meaningful use penalties. Plus Medicare fee-for-service ends up determining industry costs because insurance companies just modify those rates slightly.
Can any Bernard supporter explain to me the effect of giving everyone free college, thus bloating the market with degrees, driving down their value? As far as I and any person with a basic knowledge of supply and demand economics knows, massively increasing the amount of degrees will destroy the value of them.
>>61128720 To be fair, he does explain very well how he's paying for everything, aside from healthcare, which he apparently /plans/ on releasing that before the iowa caucus. https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-bernie-pays-for-his-proposals/
>>61129078 And what is that 75 billion dollar plan? Is it direct redistribution of wealth by taxation and then transfer of money into the rest of the population's bank accounts? Are you sure you're not oversimplifying something to make it easier to mock and criticize?
>>61128664 So why even be here when you've just said that the reason of you being here is to see how people would react if they were proven wrong, your decision to not even present a counter argument doesn't help you. Might as well just ignore your post since you're all just talk without substance
>>61128958 I'll do it for the tard. His main policies are 1. single payer healthcare system 2. free tuition for public universities 3. raising minimum wage 4. good paid medical and family leave systems 5. breaking up the too big to fail banks and whatnot 6. closing off tax loopholes, making people actually pay taxes 7. get rid of money in politics
a lot of his ideas are actually really similar to trumps, believe it or not, trump just doesnt talk about a lot of it anymore. Trump has regularly praised single payer healthcare systems, at one point he endorsed it but he sorta did a switcharoo into something more similar to obamacare after he decided to run, he doesn't like the money in politics and the money controlling shit, thinks everyone should pay their taxes, etc. I find it strange that the Republicans straight up don't talk about education and healthcare and whatnot, but I think Trump will plop down a lot of progressive ideas in those areas come general election time, because if you listen to him from prior to him campaigning, he supports a lot of it.
>>61129075 Not really, it doesn't really get into anything that he's actually said, in fact. And most of the issue is the healthcare, which again, he hasn't released the information on it. Have you read either of the two links and compared it to Bernie's actual information? They talk really weirdly in those 2 links about things which seem to have no connection with what he's proposing.
>>61129109 Right, I agree he should have already released it by now, but he does plan on releasing it soon.
>>61129198 You really should read it, it's quite a lengthy thing to simplify on 4chan http://www.peri.umass.edu/fileadmin/pdf/ftt/Pollin--Heintz--Memo_on_FTT_Rates_and_Revenue_Potential_w_references----6-9-12.pdf
essentially, he's going to tax wall street transactions which will result in about $300 billion compared to the $75 billion needed
>>61129305 retard, shut the fuck up, you're making other people here look bad. fuck off
>>61126204 Some people just want to move a few steps closer to countries like Denmark. Sure tax is high and things cost more but there are literally no cites that look like Detroit and people that get sick don't end up with their whole family living on the streets.
>>61129839 >>61129867 >>61129902 Are you all 8th graders? This is a really sad display. Not one of you have picked a policy of Sanders and then laid out a criticism of it. Not one in this entire thread.
>>61129754 You didn't go over anything, you posted two links. One of which is a washington post article which hardly says anything, and the other doesn't really tackle his individual plans he presents on his website. A lot of it seems to have little relevance. That being said, I haven't clicked every fucking link out of those 30 there, so if you could post one or two links here that does cover what he says on his website and why it's wrong, I'd be happy to read them, but of course only if they actually cover the exact proposals on his website (some of which were put there in the last couple of weeks)
>>61128166 you're argument is that no one on here has a good argument. anon uses same argument against you and queue the butthurt. This anon right hur has done gone full retard folks, never go full retard.
>>61129996 It's not like any single individual will lose a shitload of money, but no, I don't know how it will go down, nor do you guys know if all of trumps proposals will work out how he wants them to. There's always uncertainty in politics. Worse case scenario, he can't bring in free education and its exactly the same as it is now.
>>61129996 So you admit that your "taxing the rich to put money in your own pocket will never work" was a disingenuous representation of his proposed social policies.
>>61130110 Is that what you say when someone points out that you're a drooling retard?
>>61130211 >come into thread >see a bunch of people making up leftist policies and attributing them to Sanders even though he is not proposing those policies >point it out >everyone asks what my evidence is >show them his website >no one yet has argued one of sanders policies
>>61130267 >he still can't pick on of sanders' policies and argue it
>>6112977 Taxing speculators? Didn't speculation only happened due to government incentives that temporarily removed risk and encouraged insurers to lend out their assets on non-credit worthy borrowers?
>>61130364 Yeah, everything in that article is true. It would be very expensive, it would expand the government, but as it says in the article, it's not impossible, it's very viable. It's a matter of if you want that kind of big change or not. As a canadian, I really don't give that much of a shit, and it's obviously up to the Americans to choose, but to me, he looks like the best candidate.
>>61130379 >>come into thread >>see a bunch of people making up leftist policies and attributing them to Sanders even though he is not proposing those policies >>point it out >>everyone asks what my evidence is >>show them his website >>no one yet has argued one of sanders policies >doesn't even link to sanders website >gets mad when asked about sanders policies since he thinks he knows them >when asked to present sanders policies he gets upset and says "look it up" >actively ignores when other posters point out flaws in sanders plan >claims he is an adult while whining that nobody is acting like one except him >does exactly what he claims others are doing
>>61130484 If many hardworking people will be harmed by his ideas, then I have a problem with that. I would personally have to look into that individual point more though, I haven't looked at that one too much. Again, not voting lol, so it's not /that/ important to me, but I like a lot of his ideas.
>>61130583 It's a shitty metaphor in the first place, as I said when you first posted it. Pooling money for hospitals and schools isn't putting money into the pockets of poor people by taking it from the rich. It's not about that and that's a shitty metaphor.
>>61130604 No I didn't mean drooling as in immature, I mean that you are cognitively weak and you struggle with simple tasks.
>>61130695 I posted his website and the page where he outlines his policies. I'm not typing out or copy pasting it for you. If you're too fucking lazy to copy and paste a URL you should castrate yourself.
>>61130620 >>61130737 I want to remain as the country that influences the planet. The US tried isolationism and it didn't work. This country was founded on the pursuit of happiness, not guaranteed happiness.
Shit look at your own money. 1 of your dollars is worth 69 cents here. Pathetic.
>>61130785 >I posted his website and the page where he outlines his policies. I'm not typing out or copy pasting it for you. If you're too fucking lazy to copy and paste a URL you should castrate yourself.
It's not me who is defending his policies. You are the one too lazy to defend your own candidate and copy and paste yourself
>>61130785 No, the rhetorical point is that money will remain in wallets because they aren't spending it on Healthcare and shit. NOTHING in life is free. Pooling money together to give people shit doesn't just result in free shit. The burden *has* to fall somewhere, and people have been getting around tax laws fucking forever.
Use your brain and close your mouth when you breathe faggot.
>>61130930 >>61130951 Our currency is 69 cents to the dollar because we invested all of our money in oil, under the Harper administration. Trudeau has literally done nothing, he's only been in office for 2 months. I'm not saying he'll be good and help us out of this, but it's not some liberal politician that fucked us. We're just at a low point in our economy, but Canada has always been rather boom and bust, particularly Alberta, because of oil. We should have put more money into more important things, Ontario has been down the toilet for decades now. It's a shame. But it's not our socialist policies that are causing this, so that's completely non sequitur. We have done very well economically under socialism, but the price of oil dropping is completely crippling us.
>>61131424 >not only is he incapable of criticizing one policy of sanders >he is still trying to insult me based on his assumption that I'm voting for Sanders even though I said I wasn't multiple times
>>61131440 That doesn't change anything I said. Go to the page right now, read it, or this conversation is over and you admit that you can't pick and debate a single one of Sanders' policies.
>>61131614 Yeah, I know. Ours actually falls even worse sometimes, because we consume a lot more. Although, some of our policies like more highly regulated banks have saved us in the past, like in the recent recession.
>>61131440 >>61131712 >>61131424 Well cucks it's been fun. You really showed a deep understanding of Bernie Sanders' policies, gave a balanced, rational criticism which you tried to do with the most objective lens possible, you really showed a historical awareness and a knowledge of how modern social democracies work and most of all, you did it without insults, memes or logical fallacies.
Nah I'm fuckin around. You behaved as typical white trash blue collar peasants who are so extensively conditioned in their thoughts and feelings that they might as well be regarded as cattle rather than people.
Please don't pollute the gene pool and I recommend that you all remove the testicles from your body so that you guarantee this doesn't happen for the good of everyone really.
>>61132130 >liberals literally mocking the blue collar class for being beneath them >the same people that think they're "fighting the power" and "fighting for the common people" are mocking the "common people" for choosing their own candidate instead of blindly listening to them because they think they know what's best for poor people
Do they even realize what they're doing, or are their heads too far up their own asses?
>>61132130 >You behaved as typical white trash blue collar peasants This kind of thinking is unsurprising when it comes to Sanders supporters. The actual proletariat who have been the most greatly damaged by increasing regulatory market policies realize that in order to achieve economic prosperity once again and to ensure that the capital the wealthy are currently hoarding, we need to offer the greatest local context in order for business to thrive. The naive presumption that in order to ensure economic prosperity is to simply relocate and redistribute the capital of the wealthy and give it to the impoverished wont actually solve the fact that there is a very real lack of reinvestment and small/big business are outsourcing their cheap labor which should be reserved to local citizens to illegal immigrants and across seas. Creating artificial federal jobs aren't real jobs and do not aid with the formation of more private business, since you're literally taking the money of the workers and giving it back to them through wages and does not create prosperity.
Social programs, like his promise for youth programs in which he'll attempt to ensure that the low Millennial Human Capital will be somehow raised by creating a centralized system doesn't ensure anything. As we've seen countless times before, even anti-bullying programs, bullying does not stop. If you want to address the fact youths do not have the necessary skills to assume labor positions, get rid of minimum wage, get rid of the Welfare State, and ensure that these youths are FORCED to learn trade skills. If we remove minimum wage and make sure small business is able to thrive in local competitive markets, or even big business opportunities like Maccas being able to hire more youths (but universally at a cheaper wage because of the fact employers can't pay their employees more than what they produce), we'll see vast long term benefits.
>>61134517 There's a reason blacks are so impoverished and have a vast lack of necessary trade skills. The solution isn't giving them money, it's to ensure that the rich will reinvest that capital in order to ensure they'd actually have the employment available to them in order to prosper. A short term solution to a problem you're kind caused cannot and will not work.
>>61132130 Thanks for reminding me how utterly incapable of actual debate /pol/ is. This board is as much of a hugbox as reddit is. I'd hate to be in a country where I have to explain that public healthcare is not communism or leads to a welfare state.
>>61135478 Lad, what he wanted was for someone to directly quote some of the text in the bernie website's issues and explain why that part is horseshit. Instead he got cuck memes, insults and people uncapable of simply quoting and arguing a point. Making up strawman arguments and mocking them is NOT arguing.
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