He didn't realize that everything he liked about paganism survived in Christianity, and that making an attack on Christianity he benefitted the communists that further contributed to the destruction of "pagan" values he liked.
Case in point, only commies such as Foucault use him now.
Nietzsche wasn't an anti-Semite. He thought the Nazis were retarded and thought Europeans and European culture as a whole needed to be defended. He derided Germany for being full of morons.
In the end, he was right. Germany destroyed the flower of the European youth. Hitler wasted the lives of tens of millions of strong white European men. Hitler destroyed the European gene pool, culling all the genes for masculinity and courage and leaving behind only weak children ripe for mudslime conquest.
I put off reading Nietzsche for many years because of this perception. Read The Gay Science, Beyond Good and Evil, and a Genealogy of Morality. Edgy teens don't actually get Nietzsche, unless they're shitlords. Nietzsche was a prophetic proto-shitlord.
Atheists ignore the fact Nietzsche had more respect for Christians than for atheists. He regarded atheists as pozzed self-important nihilists. Nietzsche's life goal was to come up with a life-affirming response (amor fati) to the atheistic nihilism he saw taking over the future.
>>61117404 Someone doesn't know their theology. I studied the bible for years, and most of the hippy shit people say about it is untrue. There are no qualms about killing in defense or in war, moral values should be stood up for, and degeneracy should be called out and shamed. Paganism had the worst of secularism (degeneracy, substance abuse) mixed with the worst of religion (superstition, impractical dogma).
If you don't remember Nietzsche writing about atheism, you didn't fucking read Nietzsche. That was half the point of everything he wrote.
Take, for example, probably the most famous passage Nietzsche wrote:
Have you not heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market-place, and cried incessantly: "I am looking for God! I am looking for God!" As many of those who did not believe in God were standing together there, he excited considerable laughter. Have you lost him, then? said one. Did he lose his way like a child? said another. Or is he hiding? Is he afraid of us? Has he gone on a voyage? or emigrated? Thus they shouted and laughed. The madman sprang into their midst and pierced them with his glances.
Where has God gone?" he cried. "I shall tell you. We have killed him - you and I. We are his murderers. But how have we done this? How were we able to drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the entire horizon? What did we do when we unchained the earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving now? Away from all suns? Are we not perpetually falling? Backward, sideward, forward, in all directions? Is there any up or down left? Are we not straying as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is it not more and more night coming on all the time? Must not lanterns be lit in the morning? Do we not hear anything yet of the noise of the gravediggers who are burying God? Do we not smell anything yet of God's decomposition? Gods too decompose. God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we, murderers of all murderers, console ourselves? That which was the holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet possessed has bled to death under our knives. Who will wipe this blood off us? With what water could we purify ourselves?
"I've seen proof, black on white, that Herr Dr. Förster has not yet severed his connection with the anti-Semitic movement...Since then I've had difficulty coming up with any of the tenderness and protectiveness I've so long felt toward you. The separation between us is thereby decided in really the most absurd way. Have you grasped nothing of the reason why I am in the world?...Now it has gone so far that I have to defend myself hand and foot against people who confuse me with these anti-Semitic canaille; after my own sister, my former sister, and after Widemann more recently have given the impetus to this most dire of all confusions. After I read the name Zarathustra in the anti-Semitic Correspondence my forbearance came to an end. I am now in a position of emergency defense against your spouse's Party. These accursed anti-Semite deformities shall not sully my ideal!!"
"No, we do not love humanity; but on the other hand we are not nearly "German" enough, in the sense in which the word "German" is constantly being used nowadays, to advocate nationalism and race hatred and to be able to take pleasure in the national scabies of the heart and blood poisoning that now leads the nations of Europe to delimit and barricade themselves against each other as if it were a matter of quarantine."
Yes, the Nazi Party did not exist, but the ideology that became Nazism did not spring into existence ex nihilo and the people who would later become notable Nazis were around and known to Nietzsche, who despised them.
I don't know what you did read, those years ago, but for some reason Thus Spoke Zarathustra is the most widely read and recommended of his books, which is...simply too esoteric and requires a foreknowledge of what Nietzsche is all about to really understand. It has the 'literary' novel component, I guess, which is maybe why people read it, but for brilliantly clear and succinct explanations people should really read his later works - The Gay Science, Beyond Good and Evil, A Genealogy of Morality, and The Antichrist. They're definitely worth reading or re-reading. A hell of a lot more interesting to read than Kant or something, too.
>>61119847 >>61119847 >killing in defense or in war he had no problem with this. i think you are confusing fred's issues with christianity with new athiest faggots. if anything he disliked christianity for opposite reasons they do. the bad part is the veneration of another world at the expense of our own, the equalitarian sense of being equal before god and the hatred of suffering. as well he was not varg, espousing the virtue of paganism. he just noted that values which came from aristocratic people were more life affirming. he enjoyed the greek's sense of tragedy, he was not about their debauchery.
>>61116857 I was actually reading Nietzsche today, the gay science (hehe) or joyful wisdom, and I agree with this assessment.
Nietzsche criticized an imagined primitive christianity based mainly on textual evidence and philosophical opinion, in the manner of the Protestants. He completely disregards historical context. Catholicism was no longer the religion of the weak and the pariah. Regardless. Now the tables have turned and Christianity is the religion of up-standing and conservative individuals and liberalism is the religion of the pariah. Everything Nietzsche said about primitive Christianity applies to liberalism, the ideology of human rights, etc.
>>61121325 Wrt Kant, I don't understand him at all. He's too cryptic, if you know what I mean... If I were to start reading philosophy again, which I might do, I'd want to start with Aristotle's ethics because that's definitely one of the things one must have read to appreciate, not only Nietzsche, but life.
>>61116857 I was reading Nietzsche today, the gay science (hehe) or joyful wisdom, and I agree with this.
Medieval Catholicism was no longer the religion of the pariah. His critique of Christianity is based on textual criticism of the bible and disregards historical context, in the a very "Lutheran" manner.
Regardless. The tables have turned. Christianity today is the religion of conservative, up-standing individuals, and liberalism is in fact the religion of pariahs.
Everything Nietzsche said about Christianity applies today to liberalism, secular humanism, the ideology of human rights, etc., and not so much to traditional Christianity.
>>61121939 >>61121939 >Everything Nietzsche said about Christianity applies today to liberalism as he says in BGE 202. It applies to Christianity as well, but to a lesser extent. To Fred, Christianity was Platonic Idealism for the masses and liberalism/socialism etc is Christianity without a god to justify it. Each is more debased and degenerate than it's parent. Which bears out in you seeing those degenerate qualities more in leftism than in Christianity. But at it s core, Christianity is a decadent religion of world-denying and the hatred of suffering, the opposite of amor fati. Just not as grossly as leftism.
>>61121939 I disagree. Whatever he then held against Christianity still holds today. Christianity hasn't changed one iota since Nietzsche's days. Whenever someone asks a Christian a question that can't be answered, eg. "Why have I got schizophrenia?", they blame the big man in the sky... God works in mysterious ways.
Moreover, and this is very important, for Nietzsche truth itself is not what's most important. The scientific question is a moral question and a morality is good which affirms life. Therefore it's permissible to believe in a lie if it's beneficial to life (because what is truth, right?). Now he interpreted Christianity to be not beneficial, but in out society it obviously is, and disbelief is what is pernicious. What I'm trying to say is, imo it is permissible for nietzschean atheists to be Christians because it's positive for life.
>>61118443 retard, hitler did misinterpret neitzche however you cant rightfully blame hitler for ww2. Hitler just wanted to protect germany's borders and have its own monetary system. UK attacked Germany.
>>61122457 That's odd coming from someone living in a Papal state!
Nietzsche always wanted to be a Jesuit and probably was, they are the clergy who pretend not to be clergy in some cases and are allowed to think outside the box, even slag the cult if it makes them or others feel better, it provides an outlet.
As I plowed through Thus Spoke Zarathustra one thought kept reinforcing itself, this is a fucking new age bible! Fuck the priests I say, what good have they ever done? A parasite class lower than lawyers and accountants.
You could fit in a few others here and there, but that's the main strain of idiocy that basically led to: >muh feelings!!! you can't know how I feel! I'm a trans-nigger lesbian even though I'm a white male and you're oppressing me.
Every one of the mentioned being a little more wrong than his predecessors.
>>61115916 Man is a rope, tied between beast and overman--a rope over an abyss. A dangerous across, a dangerous on-the-way, a dangerous looking-back, a dangerous shuddering and stopping. What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not an end: what can be loved in man is that he is an overture and a going under. I love those who do not know how to live, for they are those who cross over.
Daily reminder that when Nietzsche said God is dead, he was referring to the destruction of Christian morals in the Western world. God is dead is not a statement of atheist thought, but a declaration of Western decline.
the quote is right, democracy is fucking shit. Monarchy: The king can decide to steal your bike. Democracy: The mob majority can decide to steal your bike. Republic: The mob majority decides to elect a politician to steal your bike, he gets paid off and steals everyone's bike. Constitutional Republic: The constitution guarantees your right to defend your bike from being stolen with guns.
The following were the followers of Christianity, according to Nietzsche in the Will to Power:
>(a) The weak and the botched (the refuse of the ancient world, and that of which it rid itself with most violence).
>(b) Those who are morally obsessed and anti- pagan.
>(c) Those who are weary of politics and in- different (the blase* Romans), the denationalised, who know not what they are.
>(d) Those who are tired of themselves — who are happy to be party to a subterranean conspiracy.
Sounds familiar? Because it is, but not with Christianity, but with liberalism. You almost see the image of the Antifa type in this description. But do you know any traditional, non-liberal Christian who matches this description? I don't.
Yes. Because who needs hope of something better than this miserable existence being funneled into (i.e. secularized) the drive to improve said miserable existence. Surely (western) europe's (this includes america, australia and the likes) global dominance is just a coincidence. It has clearly nothing to do with catholic (and to a minor part protestant) predominance in those parts of the world for hundreds of years, evolving into our modern societies that make todays homes so different, so appealing.
Yeah, long live medieval ages and average life expectancy of 37 years. Living the dream. Wait! In Brazil you ARE most likely living this dream. And we'll be living it too in one or two generations. Great. Just fucking great.
>>61126927 I'm not saying that christianity was a complete blessing at the time of its founding. Still, the ancient world was (not much unlike todays western world) intellectually splintered at the time (e.g. see Sextus Empiricus). The christian believe in salvation (founded in tikkun olam if you will) however made it possible for humanity to reemerge from the dark ages. The same hasn't happened in any other part of the world, certainly not in the russian mirs (small 'Volksgemeinschaften'of complete servants so to say). Catholic brand of christianity was integral to that developement.
>>61115916 >>61115916 I honestly think that if a group of people like /pol/ were capable of coming together, and forming an ideology capable of sustaining a white republic, they could learn a lot from Nietzsche.
He would have understood very well how the West has become what it has become. How the doctrine of equality has been taken to its logical conclusion; the conclusion that ALL people, no matter their origin, their ideology, their intelligence, their strength, are equal.
If the white republic were to create a sustaining ideology (one that cannot be hijacked by hippies, marxists, weaklings, other-worldsmen, manchildren, feminists) they could learn a lot from Nietzsche.
>>61128248 Of course. Even though I'm not allowed to carry one, I'm 100% pro guns. I'll spare you the Orwell quote. I still don't think the categories of republic (no guns) vs. constitutional rebublic (right to bear arms) makes any sense. We have a constitution here too (thanks to you guys), it's doing a lot of good but it still doesn't have a second amendment. You know what I mean.
>>61129033 You can have all of those things w/o elevating science to a theology and without the cultural decline we have now. Enlightenment has allowed us to progress, but to what end? We are going nowhere. Just progress for the sake of progress now, whatever "progress" even entails nowadays anymore.
Apparently we can never criticize the Enlightenment even though it's been 300 years. People said the same thing about Aristotle before the Copernican Revolution, mind you. Seems like you've fallen into the same dogmatic lapse of reason that the Enlightenment fought to overcome in the 18th century.
>>61118538 I was the the edgy teenager who placed him as my favorite philosopher. Now that I"m older, I realized I was an edgy cuntnugger, but reading him developed my interest in philosophy as a whole. I guess you could say I am now beyond edge and fedora.
>>61129816 >whatever "progress" even entails nowadays anymore
If you're bored, read: http://www.sciacchitano.it:80/pensatori%20epistemici/scettici/outlines%20of%20pyrronism.pdf (I hope it's the complete version, if not and if you're really, really bored and rich just buy the book)
It's basically an outline of modern zeitgeist, where you don't even know what real progress is anymore because - fuck me - there are so many narratives and situatednesses. When your finished tell me again that your not sure what real progress is. I'll be around most likely.
>>61131236 Whoops. Took me so long to find the link that what I forgot to mention is, that the same zeitgeist and the same splinteredness of ideology caused the end of the the ancient world. Christianity (around the time a religion of poor, brown people) fixed that. We best not forget that the believe in one god, one truth and one reality played a pretty big role in what we are today. Better not jeopardize it, lest we want another, much more authoritarian and inimical religion, with no type of kindly theology and theory of salvation whatsoever, to ring in a new dark age.
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