What is "Western Civilisation" and why do you love it so much?
note: I am not a liberal, communist, leftist, feminist, homosexual, woman, "ethnic minority".
I am only asking because I want to know from you what exactly is upsetting you and what exactly you believe you have lost.
Western civilization found a model of behaviour in society that conquered the entire world in its grip.
Its not that western civilization is lost - but the momentum is lost and while we are confused others break down the doors so to speak.
>Introduce them to civilization
The western civilization is a corruption of the ancient greek civilization.
There's nothing to love about it.
So you are a humanist. What is your objection to Communism/Socialism then? They claim to be doing the same thing, viz. advancing humanity culturally and scientifically.
Why is that?
It's not what we have lost, it's what we're going to lose.
The Western world dictated the pace of invention and ingenuity for at least the last 300 years.
We found out that free speech is a must if you want to reach the next stage in civilization, women working is actually a good thing, how to get in to space, etc, etc.
And now, backwards-ass camelfuckers are immigrating here and trying to tell us that we've been wrong all along.
We just needed to place our faith in Allah, and we'd have reached the same level of technological progress, and without even having to use women for anything except sex-slaves!
Everything our ancestors fought and died for will be completely irrelevant should the shitskin horde arrive.
>posts pic of an Iberian castle
They claim but they fail
I was born in Czech republic soon after the Iron curtain fell.
Even today, some 25 years later, I can still see the damage communist did to my country. Compare eastern europe and western europe and you should see why left isn't the way to go.
But what if the shitskins were indoctrinated with secularism/atheism and threw off their Islamic heritage entirely. Would you be entirely satisfied with the course of events then?
It's keeping the great power engine turning. Society is an artificial construct and requires all citizens to sacrifice and pitch in to make it work (have careers, have families, live lawfully, etc.). When you break that down to simplistic hedonistic purists it will not function anymore.
You think we are pessimistic for no reason, when all were trying to do is steer you away from your own destruction.
Western civilidation is the reason you're not living in a cave or beinf treated like property by men and raped every night.
So shut up and stop complaining and consider yourself fortunate we don't return to colonialism and enslave you again. The chains are gone, but we are still the master race.
>I am not a liberal, communist, leftist, feminist, homosexual, woman
>proceeds to make a thread only a liberal, communist, leftist, feminist, homosexual, woman would make
I think I've been through that point before here: There are 1.2 billion Chinks who like beach homes and Maseratis as much as the next guy. In addition, they work their asses off, compared to the average Western faggot. I'd say that being entitled to nice things is the surest way to lose them.
I'm actually a traditional Catholic and I think that liberalism, communism, leftism, feminism, and homosexualism are from the devil. I just wanted to know what people on the board actually think. It seems that people here are generally secular humanists so they are not actually that different in their beliefs that the "degenerates" they complain about.
What is any other civilization and why do they love it so much....?
Maybe because it prevents others from infiltrating, killing, denigrating, ignoring and disenfranchising us in our own continent?
thats pretty much the base of any support for any civilization.
But it also creates a mental stability and sense of self-worth, with those who know the traditions you as an individual can present your own narratives, and they will be heard (unlike so many of the rape cases yes?)
Your supposed to just ignore the complexities of Europeans lives or their ancestors/family now, because a few idiots have thrown this away and look down on other Europeans that don't due to the constant pressure to adopt to a foreign minority who actually have a homogeneous civilization from which to draw from.
Hollywood depictions of European culture are used not to the ends of strengthening the resolve of Europeans and a life in which struggles can be overcome without disrupting or destroying nature but rendered malleable to promote a secondary agenda of power hungry control.
LOTR is a good example of these forces, it was written at a time when Left-wing sentiment was more focused on a humble life with a sense of unity rather than simply proletariat control.
The chief characteristic of Western civilization is its innovative nature, which results in massive instability and constant flux.
Consider how rapidly Western societies adopt and discard religions and social and political ideologies.
I have a curious feeling that we are about to undergo an enormous shift in values. The world will tremble in stunned terror at how rapidly the West abandons the universalism that once characterized it.
>Europe was at its height immediately prior to the First World War.
You mean when Britain was at its height?
You mean that values of the Founding Fathers?
>The chief characteristic of Western civilization is its innovative nature, which results in massive instability and constant flux.
This only really describes the last few centuries
>Consider how rapidly Western societies adopt and discard religions and social and political ideologies.
It wasn't organic. It was paid for by people with an agenda. It involved massive propaganda campaigns, regicides, coups, looting, revolutions, and wars.
>aesthetic, creative, intelligent, independent race
>higher human values: justice, honour, freedom of speech, good manners
>advanced social institutions: parliamentary democracy, law, business, industry
>noble and epic history and culture
>has made the entire world a better place
>homeland of the one true religion (Anglicanism)
>What is "Western Civilisation" and why do you love it so much?
The civilization that built the country you live in and much of the civilized world (not including some parts of Asia). I love it because it has brought us at this point, when everyone else failed
Being safe when walking the streets. Criminals getting convicted, while innocent people are protected. Being able to speak your mind. Being able to own your stuff. being free from opressive governments.
Perhaps I should put it another way. Western civilization is a live and let live world. On the other end of the mediterranean it's a dog eat dog world.
These are things most of us on /pol/ have enjoyed since our birth. Very few people alive today fought for them. These precious gifts have become so mundane to us that we now, in Europe at least, are giving them up without a fight.
>This only really describes the last few centuries
Mate, we've been building coliseums and palaces and cathedrals for thousands of years. What have black people accomplished in that time?
Western Civilization is composed of the art, music, literature, morals, ethics, cultural practices, religion, philosophy, family norms, and social norms indigenous to or common in Europe and areas colonized primarily by Europeans, especially from 800A.D. until 1900 A.D.
These traits combine to form a distinct culture that produces increased social weal and philosophical vigor.
The loss or reduction of the distinct traits of Western civilization, particularly the loss of ethical, family, legal, and social norms demonstrably causes a *decrease* in social weal and a lack of philosophical vigor.
>you have lost
no, what we are losing. that is an important distinction. we are losing the drive and motivation that allowed us to advance from living in thatched huts to landing on the moon and having access to 99% of the information on the planet at our fingertips.
assuming you're white and a native, western civilization is everything you know and take for granted. your mannerisms, your morals, your education, your thoughts and feelings were all developed as a result of living in the west. if you grew up in china, or india, or africa they would be completely different, although due to our influence not as different as they might be. we are the most developed and educated civilisation that has ever existed on this planet by an enormous margin, which is precisely why you're able to convince yourself that socialism is okay. the sense of comfort you have with your own life allows you to justify projecting your views on others, that they too should believe that everyone should be on an equal footing. if we continue to allow the west to erode, we will lose this drive for advancement as other cultures simply do not have it. africans are too violent and stupid and asians are too greedy and self-centered. the more influence these other groups have, the more our culture will be destroyed in the name of tolerance, and the more our ideals and morals will be replaced by theirs. what's sad is that we're doing it to ourselves, comfort has led to complacency and we're allowing this to happen, even encouraging it.
if we allow western civilisation to fall, it will not stop there. we will continue to attempt to make everyone equal. gradually all cultures will be assimilated, but doing this will consume resources that could be instead put to better use. we will never reach mars, we will never cure cancer, we will never commercialize fusion. it will all go towards an increasingly all-consuming effort to achieve equality.
Listen, we get it.
You're proud of the philosophy that was produced in your country 2,000 years ago but feel a little inadequate that other people built things like roads and empires.
Its OK; we still appreciate you.
Those values are deeper than just the Founding Father's, although they did seek to make an updated white nationalist constitutional republic based on both Ancient Greeks and French Enlightenment thinkers.
We've always been much more individualistic and more skeptical/rationalist than other peoples.
The Negro is an undeveloped people, living in an animalistic state.
The Semite has always been a Magiist civilization based on tribal competition and emotional faith.
The East Asian has more affinity with us due to their focus on more rationalistic philosophies but they stopped short of developing Logic and have always been hyper-collectivist and submissive.
Even pre-industrialization the West has always had more rights for women and a higher standard of living per capita than the Eastern juggernaut empires. Just look at how many countries are in this small peninsula off of Asia that spawned the most powerful nations the World has ever seen.
We are in decline right now and it may be terminal but our particular cultural inheritance is something worth fighting for. We are the most dynamic people to have ever existed and the only reason we are faltering is because Christianity/Marxism (the latter being a secular version of slave morality) have turned against us opportunistically as a means of making us feel guilty and ashamed of who we are. It is a very sad sight to see, especially if one is familiar with the past glories of our people.
Oswald Spengler is someone you should read. He uses the morphology and life-cycle of plants as a metaphor for different cultures/civilizations. For him we are a "Faustian" culture -- we strive for the Absolute and infinity but know we can never reach it; we are dynamic and innovative to a fault, and because of that are a highly volatile people, easily capable of becoming our own worst enemy. His main work is called "The Decline of the West", if you're interested.
>especially from 800A.D. until 1900 A.D.
I would trace the origins of Western Civilization back to 509 B.C. That was when the last King of Rome died and the First Roman Republic was established. Roman statecraft, consisting of Republican forms of government and the Rule of Law, are one of the hallmarks of Western civilization. Interestingly, the first Greek democracy would emerge in Athens less than a year later in 508 B.C.
>What is "Western Civilisation"
There are many explanations, but I believe that there are two things that define Western Civilization as we know it today. First of all there is Christianity, the moral foundation of the West as well as, for centuries, it's starting point. Many philosophical, intellectual and even scientific advances would have been made impossible without Christianity. Some even theorize that some of the truth assumptions contained in Christianity are what led to the scientific revolution in the first place (C.S. Lewis summarized this view in the words "man became scientific because they believed in (natural) laws, and they believed in laws because they believed in a lawgiver".
The second half is, perhaps paradoxically, the French Revolution. Western Civilization was defined by its most radical moments: the decline of the nobility in the face of the growing bourgeoise, the decapitation of a king, the people rising as one, the (horribly misunderstood) Terror, the declaration of human rights and of course the birth of popular sovereignity. The Latin idea of Res Publica was realized in its most pure form, albeit it through a bumpy ride (that's what happens when the entire world decides your new ideas are shit).
In short, I'd say that Western Civilization is defined on a personal and moral level by the values of Christianity, and on a public and governmental level by the values of the Enlightenment. What Tocqueville noted in America is that in the American mind at the time these two ideas were inseperable, and perhaps the Americans of the time weren't wrong (for once).
Of course there's also the (underappreciated) heritage of the Ancients, but to a large degree modern liberalism is the fruition of those ideas (like the aforementioned Res Publica, or note how much of Montesquieu's l'Esprit des Lois takes inspiration from Polybios' commentary on the Roman Republic).
Western civilization starts with its particular fixation upon truth. We have the oldest traditions of actually formalizing truth into something reliable with ancient greek mathematics and philosophy.
From there, we have developed a lot of things including individual rights, technological progress, beautiful art and all the wonders that make others want to move into our realms.
Now that they have moved in, they are eroding the civilization's fruits, and some are even outright hostile to.
I believe that if we fail to appreciate either of these fundamental pillars of Western society, or fail to bring them into proper balance (which, more or less, has been attempted since the Middle Ages through various systems and models), Western society as we know it will collapse. Considering secularization and the faillure of the churches to properly handle this on the one hand and constant infringements on our liberties and political apathism on the other, I'd say our decline is imminent.
>The second half is, perhaps paradoxically, the French Revolution
No, absolutely not. The French Revolution (FR), and the left-wing ideologies of the "French Enlightenment" actually constitute a rejection of Western Civilization (WC).
The Latin ideal Res Publica was not "realized in its most pure form"; it was perverted. While a Republic is the ideal government of WC, WC as a social system also includes recognition of the family and the church/temple as valid social institutions in their own right.
The FR turned on those institutions, using the power of the state to suppress faith and strip people of their families' property and rights. This kind of ravenous state, which consumes all other social institutions, is a corruption of the ideal of a Republic.
Popular sovereignty, individual liberty, and the rule of law are all ideas central to WC, but hey are also all ideals which date back to the ancient Romans. The ideologues of the so-called "Enlightenment " didn't invent them. In fact they usually acted against them while paying them lip service.
The French Revolution was left wing in the European sense that the right is associated with authority while the left tends to associate with the oppressed or marginalized. By the standards of the time, the American Revolution (which Americans love to depict as the "good" Revolution, to be opposed with the "bad" one in France) was rather left wing as well, even though by modern (post-Marxist) standards they were far from it.
>The FR turned on those institutions
As for the family, the French Revolution never aimed to destroy the family unit. The closest thing I can think of family destruction is their glorification of the Oath of the Horatii, a tale of the Roman Republic intended to demonstrate that affairs of state take precedence over affairs of the family.
As for the Church, that is a complicated affair often misunderstood. What we see is that in the early Revolution, the sentiment of the liberals switches from indifference to religion to anti-theism, as the clerical estate refuses to give up its worldly power (remember that it all started because the Bourgeoise was marginalized in the Estates Generales). However, what we see under Robbespierre (a tragically misunderstood figure) is not the desire to abolish religion as we see in many New Atheists today. Instead, he seeked to replace it with his own creation that was a sort of barebones, stripped, Rousseau-esque Christianity: the Cult of the Supreme Being. Robbespierre realized that a Republic needed a system to enforce virtue and realized an outside, autonomous source of morality was required. His aim to deChristianize France, though not something I approve of, was entirely different of that of the New Atheists. It is best summarized in the words of Voltaire: If God doesn't exist, we need to invent him. The contemporary attitude is more something like : If God exists, we still need to abolish him.
If you remove all references to Christianity from my previous posts and replace them with a vague sense of "virtue", neither the Romans nor Enlightenment thinkers would significantly disagree with me on the meat of my theory. And even if you keep the reference to Christianity, I'd be roughly on the same line as Napoleon (though he was much more cynical than myself, as he stated something among the lines of: Religion is a useful tool, it keeps the poor from stealing from the rich. This is also what motivated him in large part to reverse the deChristianization of France).
Because the three self correcting systems of science, democracy and capitalism allowed the west to become the most advanced culture in the world which in turn created the most livable countries on the planet. That is the reason why sandnigs come here and not the other way around.