I believe Cruz is on suicide watch. Pray for him.
Frankly, Trump rekt Cruz a few times. Cruz hit hard - but Trump is VERY good at responding. I think that Cruz was somewhat out of his league in trying to directly attack Trump - especially on the New York values thing. Trump invoked 9/11, and Cruz just looked like an asshole, honestly.
It usually does now. Hillary used it pretty pathetically by somehow defending her connections to Wall Street by invoking 9/11. Trump, even though his answer was prepared (he mentioned 9/11 this morning), is a native New New Yorker and managed to come off as empathetic to the average voter. It might be the best use of 9/11 in Post Bush politics
Obongo is mocking 911 since 2008
Obongo said numerous times that "Islam is a religion of peace" even on the day after Boston bombing..
So Obongo and Hillary actually are making fun of americans for a very long time
Totally this! You can tell the last 2 debates have sounded as though the establishment had their hack-artists in the audience...but then again, we are talking SC, don't expect them to catch on too quickly and even know of Buckley.
Trump was actually in New York during 9/11 and saw it firsthand so it comes off a bit more genuine from him than when Hillary tries it. Here's his interview on 9/11, he's genuinely pretty shaken up.
yeah like I think donald is hilarious and all but he does some ass pulls.
I guess that's how it goes though, that's how you play the game
god the 9/11 and clapping was the most american thing i've seen in a long time
The 9/11 thing hasn't really worked in the public in the last several years, but it still remains a taboo to make fun of or belittle the event in any way because people in this country love nothing more than to be professionally outraged victims.
That being said, Trump's 9/11 comment was the first non-pandering take on it I've heard in the last decade. The way he described the smell of death in the air and the city's composure towards the event actually sounds like it comes from a real, emotional place and not just some political spew. And his take on how the city handled it during that time is, as much as I hate to say it, pretty true. I despise New York, but their one shining moment was during that time and they were the only one's to truly hold it together with dignity while every other place in the country lost their collective shit.
>Bringing up 9/11 after Cruz insults NY
This guy is fucking sharp man, I knew it since I saw his first press conference.
No, it actually is rarely that effective. Trump just pulled the 9/11 card off masterfully, while cruz now has a bipartisan hatred coming from New yorkers. My facebook just lit up like a christmas tree condemning cruz. N
Cruz is so full of shit. Him attacking Trump for living in New York is no different from when Obama attacked rural Americans for clinging to guns and religion, which he even brought up during this debate.
NY on 9/11 was the personification of American values. Fuck immigrants Rick the poor, putting your life on the line to save someone else when you know damn well you probably won't be making it out. That's fucking America and that Canadian cunt can fuck himself for speaking award against them
Yeah, this was bad.
Cruz got some hard hits on Trump, but Trump knocked out Cruz.
Maybe I'm biased because I live in NY, but Trump was dead on about 9/11 and the way the whole world felt about us then.
If I was Trump I would have taken it a step further, but I assume he spared Cruz a knife in the heart, by saying when the towers were hit, that it wasn't just New Yorkers that were running out of there, but New Yorkers that ran in to their deaths just to try and save people, New Yorkers that wanted to go home to their families that night.
Really really bad move for Cruz.
New York City is iconic, but there's a whole state out there besides it. NYC liberalism is no reason to crap all over the entire thing, and absolutely deny himself the electoral votes that would have come from there.
Trump literally just clenched a REAL CHANCE at NY flipping red for the first time since Reagan.
Cruz: trump is a New Yorker and has New York values. New Yorkers are liberal and don't have the same values that trump pretends to have
Trump then gave a powerful response on the resolve and values New Yorkers showed when dealing with 9/11
He didn't sound preachy at all, and the. Cruz looked like a smug asshole
>mfw republitards thought that it was safe to once again attack new york for being liberal
Think again faggots. Stick to Hollywood.
In the 1980's...you are probably correct, or atleast denounce Trump at some point.But today, Trump boldly stood alone in the beginning of this campaign to embrace the platform of building a southern border wall, and I think for that alone, Buckley would give him praise.
>Cruz stumped himself when he took a shit on New York. It's ogre.
the god emperor ascends
>Does the 9/11 thing actually work in the US?
when someone actually means it, yes. Although the cynicism of kids around 18 who dont remember it think its nothing but a le funny meme
Not just that, but people from all around the country came here after the attacks to try and help.
Trump just played this so perfectly that he not only rekt Cruz, but now I seriously strongly believe Trump can take NY in the general.
The most heartfelt public words about 9/11 by a real New Yorker since who knows when, and it landed better than anything else all night.
Nothing Trump said was wrong. He is absolutely correct that Hillary/CommieSanders will go after his legitimacy if Cruz is the nominate. Why wouldn't they? It's a free "Attack Cruz" card.
Trump specifically said he wants Cruz to get an AUTHORIZED approval of him running for president. That's it.
>muh 6 million
>muh new york
Fuck off trump
Trump was right on the point that even if there was a small chance that he isn't a naturalized citizen, then the democrats would go after him on it, especially since there are professionals who agree with Trump.
So, people don''t have the right to change their minds then? I was a liberal once who thought Islam was a religion of peace. I guess I'm wasn't suppose to change my mind about that, even after the insurmountable evidence against it?
A Canadian supporting another Canadian cant say im surprised
Canadian cuck, the thing is that thousands of americans have died
And american money was sent to kebabs for like 10 years
So I guess americans are VERY upset.
And in 2008 the liberals eleceted a Muslim President..
If he was changing his mind because new evidence came up, suggesting Cruz was very very unlikely to be considered a natural-born citizen, that would be one thing. But that's not what happened. The reason he changed his view was because he needed some bullshit reason to attack Cruz. It makes him seem less authentic and as if the positions he takes are only taken for calculated, strategic reasons.
Did anyone in the debate mention Ted Cruz getting caught in a major scandal today?
If not then wait til Trump hears of this boys.
Trump looked like a fool tonight. He got too strong too early and he's on his way out. He has no more tricks up his sleeve, which is a shame. I assumed that a billionaire would've been smarter than to reveal his hand so early, but he dug his own grave.
RIP in piss, Trump. You had a good run.
Looks like Trump stumped himself to be honest
It wasn't necessarily that he attacked us on being liberal, but it sounded like he was calling our integrity in general into question, and quite a few new yorkers are PISSED. Hell, i juat had a liberal friend of mine comment that "trump is still a xenophobic joke, but you don't mess with nyc". Which is about as close to an endorcement as i have ever heard from her.
>Hall of Fame debater Princeton
>fuck them NY'ers
How could Cruz not of seen this?! Fucking Trump is from New York, was their when the Towers went down, and lives in New York. Damn, he got BTFO and then Rubio jumped on his ass further...holy shit.
I have to say, I thought it was kind of phony. Criticizing New York values has NOTHING to do with how the city reacted on 9/11. I love NYC, but maybe I don't get it because I'm not a New Yorker.
When he describes the events he sounds genuine, but saying that Cruz was insulting....I don't know....
Still hate Cruz and love Trump tho
I'm quite sure Trump has called in some favors from the Clintons over the years given his donations to their Foundation. As as international businessman, it makes sense for him to donate to them, since they're one of the most powerful political families in the world. Why do you think he's been so adamant about corporate donors making puppets out of candidates? He used to be a puppeteer up until a few months ago.
Really? What is considered a non masterful use? What Cruz said had literally NOTHING to do with 9/11 yet he still roped it in. First time I've ever been disappointed in Trump.
Also, Cruz completely stumped him on the brother thing, I guess that's the problem when your countries laws were written with the understanding that it might all go to shit in a couple of years anyway.
It works coming from someone like Trump is a native NYC-er and was in Lower Manhattan on 9/11.
It comes over as false when Gov. Krispy Kreme salivates over how he watched it on TV/across the bay and polished his new "Federal overreach" badge.
He went straight for the throat on the point.
New York values for Trump means resilience in the face of adversity, everybody coming out to do their own part, and picking up the pieces and rebuilding bigger and better than it was before.
Just like he's going to do with America.
This is when he destroyed.
Trump starts slow, and finished great.
CNN is loving him now.
Fuck, you are almost doing it freedom friends.
here is how you don't use it.
Cruz insulted a whole state, with blanket generalities, trump responded in kind.
i.e they both both used bullshit attacks.
only difference trump played his hand better.
You know, on a lot of things, Trump tends to be bombastic, so its hard to tell when he's really offended.
But in this instance, the way he looked when Cruz was speaking, and how he delivered his response, I think he was genuinely deeply offended at those statements.
It clearly wasn't sincere though, Cruz mentioned NY values, then Trump started whining about muh 911 gorillion Americans, if this is what passes for clever in American politics I'm glad I'm not a yank.
An attack on New York for their values goes right back to 9/11 because that showcases our real values right there.
A non masterful use was like when Hillary Clinton brought it up in the Dem debates to deflect from how she sucks the dick of the financial sector for quarters
Trump pulled it off because he never talked about 9/11 until someone made a direct attack on the core values of the state, which brings it into play.
It was perfect.
bullshit. the only reason he brought up 911 was to pander to you dumbfucks that would eat it up. everyone knows new yorkers are mostly liberal. yes there are a few conservatives but overall they are liberal.
No, Cruz was talking about the duplicity of Trump, how many years ago he claimed he was pro abortion, bro "New York Values", meaning liberal shit, then recently he turned conservative to run for the Republicans, a perfectly valid argument.
Then Trump started crying like a baby about muh 3 trillion and America clapped as it always does.
all you faggots buying into his pandering, any city in the US would have done the same thing if they were attacked by "terrorists". that's not new yorker values, that's american values. go fuck yourselves.
He was mentioning the values of New Yorkers and came off very condescending in front of two people who are both considered themselves rather conservative. And then he specifically says to the woman speaking from New York "well you're from new york so you might not," which is implying that people from New York don't know any values.
Trump mentions 9/11 and how New York was one of the few states that kept its cool and rebuilt ground zero from all the rubble and death and devastation, which shows its strength and values there. It does not quite address how Trump himself had more liberal stances when he was younger but it does make Cruz look like a jackass for smugly generalizing the people from NY and essentially saying they're immoral liberal shitheads. It was also a statement that seemed sincere from Trump due to Trump being one of the people who actually went to ground zero immediately after the attack and got people to clean up and rebuild.
Spoken like someone who isn't from the area. NJ here. Its closer than "across the bay" (which is actually a river. Many people in North Jersey work in the city. I remember after it happened the kids in my school who lost their parents. People at the deli down the street that you didn't see anymore. There are places in NJ like Hoboken and Jersey City where you can be in Manhattan quicker than most places in NYC. I could see the smoke from my house after it happened, and the lights after they installed them. NJ has every right to talk about it.
He doesn't though. Christie is an asshole and everyone here hates him. He is totally disingenuous, NJ has terrible gun laws no matter what he tries to say to the contrary, our taxes are through the roof, and we're hemorrhaging population. Fuck Chris Christie. I've met the man and I dislike him about as much as I've disliked anyone.
Ted Cruz is finished. Bet he will be one of the first people Trump deports when he becomes president.
i don't care for any of these political theater actors. have fun falling for the same shit time and time again. i'm guess you guys are young and havent experiences constant lying and deception from politicians who clearly give zero fucks about you.
No, he wasn't whining, he was speaking to the fact that a piece of shit like Cruz is slamming his "New York values" as though they're bad things, and he brought up 9/11 (granted, definitely some pandering going on there, but he was actually there) to illustrate the point that for him, New York values at the time meant the city dealing with terrible things but still doing what needed to be done and everybody came together. He's saying New York values are a good thing to have.
>It does not quite address how Trump himself had more liberal stances when he was younger
But this is the thing, Trump was asked why he had a comple te 180° on his political views and rather than answer the question he went into muh gorillion, this was Israel levels of sliding.
He wasn't smearing the state, he just said it had liberal values like being pro abortion, something you don't want for a Republican candidate, rather than answer why Trump had liberal views when he was younger and what caused the sudden change he went full Jew and started crying about muh steel beams.
this was Cruz's first time attacking Trump, and you could tell he was pretty confident because he's such a slick debater
sure, Trump can stump helpless Yeb, but surely not the Cruz Missile, r-right?
and then the great stumping commences
Yes but he changed the meaning of what Cruz said.
Cruz said he didn't think Trump was right for president due to his liberal NY values, liberal meaning anti gun pro abortion etcetera.
Then Trump took his statement and changed it to make Cruz an Al Qaeda supporting Muslim that celebrates 9/11 annually.
>No, Cruz was talking about the duplicity of Trump, how many years ago he claimed he was pro abortion, bro "New York Values", meaning liberal shit, then recently he turned conservative to run for the Republicans, a perfectly valid argument.
true but the average American watching the debate doesn't know that, but what they do notice was how devise his statements were.
Cruz fucked up.
>Then Trump started crying like a baby about muh 3 trillion and America clapped as it always does.
no he started talking about the values NYers hold, and what better way to do that than to bring up 9/11, and how they rebuild their city?
Yes, he was smearing the state. There was zero reason to say "New York" over and over again if he just wanted to attack Trump. He was attacking the entire state. If he didn't want it to come off that way, he shouldn't have said "New York" over and over again. Are you implying he was possessed by a demon that was speaking "New York" over and over again even though he wanted to say "Donald Trump" instead?
He attacked NYC for no reason.
If you bring 9/11 up out of the blue then yeah you're an asshole, but Cruz was just generically bashing NYC over "values" nothing showed better values than how NYC reacted to 9/11. They didn't riot or fight, they came together and helped each other, the exact opposite of New Orleans.
>implying Trump didn't understand every German word he said
It works when someone like Trump brings it up who was born, raised and was in NY when 9/11 happened. I highly doubt it's false compassion from him because Trump pretty much witnessed the attacks and mayhem first hand. His opinion holds a lot more weight than if someone else in some other part of the country tried to pull the 9/11 card. Then it would seem like false compassion.
Keep spinning. You still haven't explained why the words "New York" kept coming out of his mouth if he meant "Donald Trump". He smeared the entire state, was made a fool, and now you're trying to pretend that New York doesn't mean New York. He made an terrible error and looked like a fool for it, just like you look like a fool trying to get anyone to believe he didn't mean "New York" when he said "New York" over and over and over again.
Yes but he completely changed what Cruz meant, Cruz was talking about the political ideologies of the people of NYC, pro abortion, anti gun, socialised healthcare, etcetera, it wasn't an attack on NY, it was an argument against their stance, he even invoked the "US boys down south in hazzard county know how shit aughta be run", he never meant the state was full of bad people, just people who's political views were not the same as the republican party.
And whatever the case, whoever is candidate the dems will win NY, so he's right.
Dude I'm not trying to turn this into a "which disaster was worse" pissing match but New Orleans was probably the biggest clusterfuck in the history of clusterfucks, you can't really blame them for turning to shit almost immediately when their entire region was completely underwater and 3rd world shithole before then
Cruz fucked up when the moderator said "I'm from New York" and then insulted her. I doubt she's a liberal, yet he still acted holier than thou. I'm so erect from all the Cruz Cucks in damage control right now.
Are you not from England? Because you sure don't understand English. It was about NY but wasn't about NY? Did you fail out of first grade debate? Do you have any point other than that? If he meant "Donald Trump" why did he keep saying "New York"? Why can't you answer such a simple question?
There were two thing Cruz did though:
1. Insult New Yorkers as a whole with 2 of them being on stage - one being the face of New York.
2. Question the flipflopping in values said face of New York has had.
Trump used his time to address the first one for the obvious reason of being personally offended. The way he answered him put him into an amazing light too and will probably fuck Cruz over in the general election if not the primary.
I'll mention what I said in another thread too:
>And then if Trump is actually asked about the underlying question in Cruz's statement, he'd play it off the same way he did when asked about his past great relationship with the Clintons - "My job was to be a world-class businessman, you can't be so conservative when dealing with all kinds of different people with different beliefs and values. You just can't."
Jesus Christ fåm calm down.
He was attacking the liberal ideology Trump used to hold, saying it was a byproduct of NY. Look at the fucking electoral map, NY has been democrat since Regan.
It does not matter what Cruz was factually talking about. His attitude towards the moderator was evidence of the disdain he actually has for New Yorkers. Had he kept it reserved for some posh, Manhattanite elite that Trump belongs to... okay that's fine. But he attacked the entire city, if not the entire state.
Either way, he insulted the NYPD and FDNY by extension. That was a massive fuck up, and Trump made him pay for it in full.
Its amazing to see how Trump even shuts down elite debaters like Cruze. And Trump's never done this before while Cruze has been a career politician his whole life. Its really amazing to be honest. Speaks volumes about just how tough and smart Trump himself is.
The questions was originally directed at Ted Cruz over his statement of Trump representing "New York values". Trump could have rebuked the statement, plainly stating his beliefs on abortion, gay marriage, and other liberal ideologies on the stage, alienating either liberal, moderate, or conservative voters with his answers. The subtle message would stick with the viewer for the debate, and be used for any soundbite for future adds, indicating he flip-flopped on his views, or doesn't have conservative values.
The response he gave completely avoids any issue with alienating Americans by choosing a point in time when patriotism, from both sides of the spectrum, was at an all-time high. He gave a soundbite the media will viciously consume and disperse to show the absolute "gall" of the Republican candidate, while pumping Trump up to New York voters. Not only that, but it sounded, and may have even slightly have been genuine, and that speaks volumes, especially to the undecided voter.
As many in this thread have stated, and you yourself have pointed out, it did not address Cruz' main critique, but rather than a dodge, it was a very successful parry, striking nearly any undecided/independent voter from thinking about Cruz for the time being, just before the important Caucuses. Whether this was intended, I have no way of knowing, but it came across well, and he came out on top.
>Yes but he completely changed what Cruz meant,
here is what Cruz meant:
NY is a liberal shit hole, and the residents suck.
you can then extrapolate that to every Democrat state, he is running to be president of the whole fucking country, not just the red states.
He certainly did not attack the entire state, he was specifically attacking NYC for being a pro abortion anti gun, soda banning shithole that it is, hell even that "conductor we have a problem" video was on a New York subway, that is what New York is, it's essentially Europe in America.
Imagine how the situation would play out had Trump been from California and he said the same thing? "Oh, I was there during an earthquake you awful, awful man, californian4lyfe"
It was pathetic of Trump to resort to such low hanging fruit.
It's completely irrelevant whether or not bringing up 9/11 is a cheap political maneuver. It was absolutely the perfect time to bring it up in response to Cruz saying New Yorkers have corrupt values. The whole country was admiring New York back then, and Trump mentioning it makes the audience remember. The fact that he actually did help clean up ground zero is what makes it perfect.
Almost always yes, difference is Trump has a little more of a personal connection with the incident and the city as he had been building in it and living in it for decades. I doubt the compassion was false but 9/11 has been a far too overplayed hand in American politics.
He knew that going up against Trump is do or die, but at this point the die was cast so he had to try.
He did a good job up until the New York thing, but that cast everything else out the window, because Trump got a knockout out of it.
Actually, it wasn't. A Californian earthquake does not pack the rhetorical punch of 9/11. A hundred California earthquakes don't. Donald Trump is a bona fide New Yorker,(one of the most prominent ones at that) and you clearly don't understand what it means to him or the average American when he brings up 9/11. Is it overused? Yes, absolutely. But in this case it was actually employed appropriately, because their character and their culture was under attack from someone whose very American-ness was just under scrutiny. Add to that the imagery he used(which was decent, a rarity for invoking that meme) and you have a knockout punch.
What Cruz doesn't realize is that he's neither talking to nor is he going to convince Texans. Texans are already convinced that New York is shit. He blew it because he forgot his audience.
Oh and also, as a Texan, fuck Ted Cruz.
Look, that shit would never fly in Britain is all I'm saying. If Farage said "I was there on 7/7" or "Who remembers Rotherham?!" It'd be looked at as the gimmicky mass appeal shit that it is.
I'm not debating whether or not it was used effectively, it clearly was, but he pulled it out like a rabbit out of a hat, it was complete bullshit, saying NY is liberal has nothing to do with 9/11.
He attacked the people and the values, not politics. 9/11 addressed both of those points succinctly. If he did attack the politics, Trump would just respond "Yeah, I hate it too." He had absolutely nothing going for him with that attack.
>that shit would never fly in Britain
Neither does this.
The only people assblasted at this remark are New Yorkers, which doesn't matter because NY will never vote rep, the question is would this convince Floridians? The answer is of course it will, everyone knows NYC is the most liberal place in America so any other state is natural more conservative and dislikes NYC for being liberal.
I'm sorry but Trumps remarks are usually clever, quick or witty, this time it was just muh 911 gorillion.
While we non liberal northerners despise them, we hate niggers, sand niggers, gooks, and wetbacks even more.
Cruz is a wetback who decided to ay carumba on America when he's a fucking foreigner. His campaign is done.
It's alright by me. I personally don't expect you guys over there to hold it to the same degree.
I grew up on Long Island from 91 onward, and my Dad worked in the city. When I heard the news that the towers were hit, everything froze for a while. I'm thankful every day that he was alright, but I knew friends who lost their relatives, be it businessmen or firefighters in the collapse, and it really strikes a chord with me.
I don't march around demanding that this be seen as a sacrosanct event, neither should it be, but it was a real wake-up call for Americans. It shook us out of the peaceful mindsets of invisible wars being fought in unknown lands of the late 80's and 90's and brought the conflict crashing onto our doorstep in such an abrupt and poignant way that it shook the entire country.
What happened on the stage could have been a milking/pure fucking grease, but it meant more to Americans, and especially New Yorkers. I'm not expecting you to understand that, but I'm just letting you in on some perspective. No one is going to be talking about how Trump "Dodged the real question" tomorrow morning, I can tell you that much.
politico in DC here.
Cruz is running the most cynical campaign in American history. Litterally playing off the ignorance of the right.
to insult the city of New York is dumb and smacks of regionalism. Will love the lulz if Trump wins Iowa.
You're running to be the President of the UNITES STATES. Not just the people who agree with you.
But what Paul was saying is actually true and not just some right wing edgy talking point.
Bin Laden attacked us because of our involvement in the middle east, and the worst kinds of stuff. Over throwing government, corruption of politics, subversion of their culture. The serious things that anyone would use as a reason to attack someone.
>9/11 has almost no effect on me emotionally so to me it seemed like pure fucking grease.
Exactly. You are neither American or a New Yorker. You can't ever understand how 9/11 feels to us. Just like at the same time we can't ever understand why you guys are so opposed to bacon.
>It does not quite address how Trump himself had more liberal stances when he was younger but it does make Cruz
its smart, cruz knows and the republicans wont win NY so its ok to bash them, especially if it gives you votes in the south
People still to this day are dying as a direct result of 9/11. We watched people holding hands and then throwing themselves out of windows. Later we heard audio of the first responders as they did their best to get to people in the upper floors, only to be killed as the building fell. Yes, the 9/11 card works.
9/11 is very different from 7/7. Many times more people died, and the psychological impact of the WTC collapse was much more visible and visceral than your tunnels being damaged or even destroyed. Also, U.S. patriotism is different from UK patriotism. Our leftist party may feel otherwise, but GOP voters are very proud of our country, and will proudly fly even regional flags.(even if the left calls us racist)
Exactly. Between this and Trump's comment I'm beginning the think the entire American political system is based around saying sound bite quotes rather than actually raising important points.
I don't think you're too far off with how all Americans feel about NY regarding 9/11. I was on the west coast and only 5 years old when it happened. Still that day is burned into my brain and hearing all of the stories of the brave New Yorkers. Not just the firefighters, but regular civilians storming the buildings to help people escape. You don't insult any of our states, especially not one with so much history that we all feel so closely connect to. I think what Cruz was doing though, was making a passive aggressive retort to when Trump said in a recent rally: "Not too many protestants come out of Cuba, i'm just saying." when he was giving a speech to Iowa evangelicals. Thing is, not enough people knew about that so it landed flat. I have no idea how he thought that was a good idea.
But surely the fact it's so poignant should be the very reason you don't politicise it? When Trump puts on the crocodile tears and waxes lyrical about it Cruz even claps, because he knows that's the checkmate, the first person to say "9/11" wins.
Actually, it's looking like his mother was a voting Canadian citizen when he was a child, which makes her ineligible for US citizenship. In the US you aren't allowed dual-citizenship.
Paul was using facts and substance, Rudy then not knowing wtf to say used the 9/11 card.
Ted was neither using facts nor substance, just blanket generalities, so Trump responded in kind, and it worked
Trump is a genius. I've been kind of disappointed with his debate strategies but he has quickly learned how to bury opponents in debates. Note: Cruz is somekind of National debate champion. Trump was calm and right to the point this debate. Much more presidential than before
muslim terrorists kill 3,000 innocent civilians in a single strike
>wow who cares!!!!
muslim goatfucker migrant breaks a fingernail
>STOP THE PRESSES we will do everything we can to find the perpetrator, Ummaty Qad Laha Fajrun pls no more beheadings master
>i want to rate their performance based on whether i liked them beforehand
Your as bad as reddit.
Trump destroyed Cruz.
All Trump wants to do is keep the birther thing in the air, it doesn't matter if it devolves into a discussion.
But he absolutely BTFO Cruz for the NY jab.
In the case of Trump, I actually believe he means it. The fact that he actually used imagery(the smell) actually tells me it meant something to him, which actually negates the fact that it is a forced meme.
>Earlier Thursday, Carly Fiorina dominated a smaller, less-glamorous debate stage when she joined two other low-polling candidates to discuss everything from national security to technology and Hillary Clinton.
>Fiorina's candidacy has largely been defined by memorable debate performances. And even though she was dropped from the prime-time stage at the debate, she still delivered. Right out of the gate, she dealt a sharp personal attack on Clinton, the Democratic front-runner.
>Fiorina's candidacy has largely been defined by memorable debate performances.
>memorable debate performances.
I agree completely. Normies don't know/won't accept this though. Even knowing what I know about 9/11, I still view it as an act of terror, and still feel the same anger over it. I just know who to blame for it. Regardless, Trump played it well.
Trump can take NY.
Only think that will fuck him is of sanders is nominee and actually has a legit layed out plan. Which is not gonna happen.
No one likes hillary, and empty promises of free shit only take you so far
Here's the thing. I didn't watch the debate. I saw the clip in one of these threads. All I saw was the title saying "new york values". The second Cruz said his comment in the debate I said "oh shit". Trump is a New Yorker. He saw the flames and the smoke. I think pretty much everyone here did. He has every right to play 9/11 after some asshole attacks NY. That day showed the rest of America NY values. Do you have any idea how much patriotism there was back then? How many candle vigils were held in neighborhoods. A New Yorker invoking a genuine 9/11 is much different than some asshole from some other state saying it just for the sake of saying it.
I apologize for my slow responses, but you seem to be incredibly efficient at this.
I am a Trump supporter, so it is much easier for me to approve of what he says, or his tactics in the campaign. However, the manner in which he addressed Cruz was very different than his usual retorts.
Even looking within the same debate, with the "birther" argument. Trump smiled and tried to play off the intention of his focus on the issue during his rallies, whether it be hypothetical VP offers, or playing along with the crowd.
The New York values rebuttal was different, and his tone was much more somber, and vivid than most other mentions of the event. To tie in smell, which is the emotion most linked to memory, was no coincidence, and I believe had some severe merit to it.
New Yorkers are dicks, but when you mess with one, you've got them all. Even ignoring Cruz' statement, Trump delivered that lesson of "New York Values" on him this evening with that comment
>all these Cruz Rusers shitting on New York
I get that the 9/11 comment wasn't exactly a high road debate strategy but neither was Cruz's attack on them fancy city folk. More telling to me is Trump talking about New York conservatives and him mentioning William F. Buckley who in many ways elevated Conservatism intellectually for many years. Cruz's exclusionist attitude towards perceived urbanite liberal elites typifies the cause of the GOP's demographic woes and is in itself a kind of elitism. By badmouthing urban intellectuals Cruz turns off a whole portion of American voters who could be, and have been turned around to the GOP. Conservatism needs more intellectuals. Intellectuals are typically urban. Trump appeals to these people more than that rat-faced Canuckold ever could.
t. Urbanite Conservative Intellectual
does anyone know what the fuck is up with my youtube?
It doesn't take a master manipulator to say 9/11, anybody can say shit smelled nasty, Trump used it as a Trump card and won because of it, swerved Cruz's question and NY will still vote Dem, just like Cruz said.
It was layered pandering to respond to Cruz's pandering for an Iowa lead, which all served to highlight the hypocrisy of cuckersvatives who mold themselves and their policy around 9/11 - yet then imply that nothing of value to them could ever possibly come out of NY - even the GOP frontrunner who wants to ban Muslims and BUILD WALL and has been shaping all their other policies the whole time
Normally Trump is very loud in his responses, kind of in your face. He wasn't like this at all when he responded to Cruz. He was very deliberate and calm with what he said. He wasn't pandering, he was angry.
No, I think the thing about 9/11 as it relates to Trump is that he literally lived through it. That is the city he has lived in all his life, his father and mother as well. That came from the heart. I'm sorry for people that are so emotionally or even intellectually impoverished not to have realized that as he spoke.
I believe Trump knows
-> Two Real planes crashes in the tallest buildings in NY
-> Jewish demolition
-> Fake war on terror to make America spend trillions on war equipment and boost jewish bankers
That's why he is so angry. He is not Jeb Bush, he knows about 911 as much as we do.
I also support Trump, not that it matters given I can't vote in American elections, but what I saw tonight was an emotional manipulator at work.
Had he just said 9/11 in his usual style it'd have been called out as the bullshit it was, Trump knows this full well and turned on the crocodile tears, and boy did it work.
I like Trump because he's genuine but this to me felt like a political move with no genuine emotion behind it.
The thing about what Paul said was that he dodged the question when the moderator asked if the American people deserved the 9/11 attacks, just like one of the comments says. He was definitely right, but he should have clarified that it was the way our leaders attack the Middle East.
And that's also something Trump thinks too about the Middle East. He always says "we don't even know who the hell's on our side but we are trying to go over there and topple their leaders." And every time he speaks, he emphasizes that the people here are great but the leadership is incompetent.
Both Paul and Cruz make the mistake of insulting the people and it makes them look bad and someone who is completely about the people like Trump look good. I would like to see Trump get the question asked again, but Cruz was still very stupid to go and insult New Yorkers in the first place even before the debate. His esponse questioning Trump's values was still basically downsizing a generalization.
That's a slap in the face of Western Society
They hate us
They want to flood us with kebabs and jewish money
Why should he be expected to answer a stupid question with a shitty basis?
I live in LA and I am not a leftist but I still have to hear people talk shit about this place. I don't actually like it here nor would I defend it, but I hate being judged because I live here. I'm more knowledgeable about conservatism than most of the trash that would insult me for my region of origin.
I honestly wouldn't be shocked about NY going red this election. Trump is practically the face of that place, so many might vote for him just for that. No doubt he'll put his face all over Manhattan, and the people who are older and actually vote will remember his contributions to the place.
I'm glad to see you staying interested in US politics regardless.
However, I feel as though it wasn't addressed in his usual manner because this part wasn't an act for attention. I don't believe Cruz intended for it to go down that road, but he did walk right into that kind of attack. And in all honesty I'd rather see it happen in the Primaries with other Republicans than onstage with Hillary in the General.
But for now, I guess we have different opinions on the matter. I believe it was a rare sight of sentiment coming from Trump in this campaign, and it meant a lot to New Yorkers.
Well Cruz's statement was basically in response to Trump saying " ‘To the best of my knowledge,’ not too many evangelicals come out of Cuba."
That was the witty part about the end of Cruz's statement where he said "You don't see many Conservatives come out of New York." I found it great but it wasn't enough to dismiss how he insulted Trump and the moderator from NY.
Make America Great Again
Fuck off Nigel
Cruz said "NEW YORK VALUES."
He dragged in Trump's hometown, the largest and toughest city in America just to wipe his ass with it's spirit just to spite Trump. If he was wiser, he would have just called Trump a flip-flopper but he decided to insult his entire city along with him. New York holds a large part of America's soul.
Trump's response is absoutely valid. He responded the same way a Texan would respond if someone took a shot at Texas.
I know nationalism is a lost concept to you limey inbred pissants, but it clearly isn't here, where Trump is igniting a flame in millions of American's hearts. Fuck off to your halal tea and cumprets you completely cucked twat
OC is the most based county in CA. Well that and Norcal or Jeffersonian areas. Liberals just don't know what to do/think/say about OC.
>I don't believe Cruz intended for it to go down that road, but he did walk right into that kind of attack
This is just the thing though, it wasn't a just attack in my view and he shouldn't be able to weaponise 9/11, Cruz said NYC was liberal in "values", by values he meant political ideology, but Trump used it to mean an attack on the resilience of the people of NYC on 9/11, which was the furthest thing from Cruz's mind, he even applauded Trump because he knew the second he wielded 9/11 it was checkmate because that's all 9/11 is to Trump, a weapon to win hearts and minds.
There are fewer people living in upstate NY than there are living in long island. As nice as it would be to see Trump turn NY red, it will not happen. He might make it got 55:45 blue to red instead of the normal 66:33.
>New York holds a large part of America's soul.
NYC is home to two different species, actual rats and human rats, it doesn't represent America at all, it's more like Europe what with it's gay rights, abortion and gun law stances, it's the most cuçked citynin America and in no way represents the rest of NY state or America.
What the fuck? I think that Cruz made a good point here. Fuck New York. It's great that there was a sense of unity during 9/11, but New York City is still a liberal cesspool just like every other city.
Chris Christie says "9/11" every other sentence, it's all about timing. He was using it defensively when Cruz questioned New York values. Sure, it doesn't rebuke that New York is a liberal state, but what did you want him to say? "Okay, you're right, but i'm really conservative I promise!" No, Cruz framed Trump to be on the defensive so Trump like he always does, attacked.
Someone has a superiority complex.
Seriously, go tip your edgy fedora somewhere else. Your inability to understand what Trump meant with his 9/11 reference shows that you are the young one here.
It isn't complex. Cruz insulted New Yorkers by saying they were, essentially, degenerates. And Trump responded by saying not only is it not true that all of New Yorkers fit into this caricature, but the way that New Yorkers dealt with 9/11 showed that they can easily come together, which to me is Trump saying deeply that even though many New Yorkers may have many leftists, at the end of the day they're still red blooded Americans who will protect and defense their country, and they shouldn't be pushed away.
Of course, you're a limey brit. Patriotism is probably a hard concept for you to grasp.
I wanted Trump to answer the God damn question and explain why he flip flopped from liberal a few decades ago to hard-line conservative now, instead I got a five minute vitriol about how 9/11 was bad, WELL DUH.
Actions and statements often have unintended consequences. Cruz criticized NY/NYC values, so it would only be a matter of time before someone would try to nail him for that one. It was unlucky of him for Trump to pull that one out of his hat though.
Whether he intended it or not, it was an attack on the integrity of "Conservatism" in the United States, but Trump countered with the known Patriotism which came after 9/11. That key difference is enough to swing independents, and like many others in the thread have speculated, turn the state Red. It may have seemed like a weapon, but he's using something that I believe he feels passionate about.
Cruz probably took the shot at NY to help further sabotage the Republicans like the good cuckservative he is. You really want to talk about a Clinton plant. It's the Cruz. Third most funded candidate. All that Jew money to Plan C, and it looks like it's about as useful as the money they gave Jeb. Trump unstoppable.
Trump said like 500 times:
"The muslim immigration in europe is a trojan horse"
"75% young men at age of military flooding europe"
What more do you want?
Fucking stupid british cuck
>I wanted Trump to answer the God damn question
New York and new orleans aren't comparable situations. Londoners didn't go berserk after 7/7, that's not something to be proud of. That's what's expected. Paris didn't after their recent attack.
New Orleans was thoroughly devastated and it descended into chaos, most places would be fucked if something similar happened.
Like what I had said before, you have to look at the TWO things Cruz did and what the question was. The question was on his previous statements about NY, and he starts off by basically saying the moderator is from New York and thus has no values. He could've gone without saying that and pointed out Trump's flip-flopping, BUT even if Cruz did that, he'd have gotten slapped with the response he gave in an earlier debate where he was asked about it:
The 1999 interview:
We have to face the fact that the reason why Donald is accepted whatsoever as a major candidate is because he is NOT redpilled on 9/11. I wonder how many of his type e.g. Rudy Giuliani, Donald Rumsfled, etc. knows what actually happened that day, or IF they do. Trump definitely does NOT.
whatever you're refering to is just a result of multiculturalism and fucking Asian (non oriental) immigrants flooding the fucking place and making it even harder to succeed for the already poor natives in the bronx, Harlem, etc.
New York is one of our oldest cities, and the no-bullshit attitude it shares with Boston is reflects on Trump and the American people in general.
We've been mind-cucked the last 20 years but it's all coming crashing down
All that we know about him is that he's pro 2nd Amendment as far as Conservatism. He's "against" abortion, but has yet to threaten to overturn Roe v. Wade, only to de-fund Planned Parenthood if they keep profiteering off of the deed. And from all implications, it seems he's not opposed to same-sex relationships either, at least not from what I've seen or heard, and he certainly isn't opposed to divorces.
It's for these reasons he didn't answer the question directly. The media touts him as an ultra conservative because of his views on immigration, but never elaborates on his more moderate viewpoints, giving him an advantage with the more conservative crowds. By answering the question, he plays by Ted's rules, and when you're dealing with a debater on the level of Cruz, you should ALWAYS be careful of answering them directly.
You aren't understanding what he meant by "here is how you don't do it".
Trump very masterfully brought up that New York "values" extend beyond what Ted Cruz was trying to imply.
Gulliani brought it up in a ham-fisted way, and it backfired. The fact that Ron Paul easily had a counter argument is the entire point of posting that video.
>The media touts him as an ultra conservative because of his views on immigration
Has Trump ever even called himself an ultra-conservative or liberal? He seems to only state his stances and let others come to a conclusion?
I personally think you shouldn't be "ultra" of either.
I agree, and I think we'll see a lot more of the moderate side after the nominations. He has to win all of the Republican vote first and foremost, so he's going to avoid the topics that piss them off.