>be nietzsche >recognize early in life that nihilism is going to be the bane of human existence >work desperately to show that there can be a pursuit of meaning in spite of the collapse of religion >write yourself into a philosophy-induced nervous breakdown trying to show that we can overcome nihilism by pursuing passion, art, self-ownership and struggle >100+ years later >faggot teenagers think that you are a nihilist and claim to use your philosophy to justify hedonistic meaningless living
>>59990295 He was in theory, not in practice. A true nihilist wouldn't have wasted all that time trying to enlighten his brethren. The atheist nihilist is the height of enlightenment a man can attain on earth. Achieving this end he departs from this world for distant sectors of the universe and other worlds.
>>59990208 Living things must act to survive and procreate. Through natural selection, this rules of life conceived the human brain. Its design and function is based on comparing different things and actions against eachother, assigning value to them, and finding the best course of action given the current situation.
Nihilism assigns no value to any action or thing. While that might be technichally true, the purpose of human cognition is not to find truth. Not at the expense of acting.
It's rather to act, and establishing what is true and what isnt, is only warranted if doing so is necessary to facilitate acting.
Nihilism thus goes against human nature. It is (in the long run) unsustainable as a practical philosophy of everyday life.
>>59990782 I'm not going to dispute that my own subjective morals go against nihilistic teachings but, what else is there? Is in, the reason it would destroy humanity is that we just can't deal with how tiny and worthless we are, doomed from the start to progress like a fire until we're consumed by heatdeath.
>>59992592 Nietzsche didn't care about humanity as a whole, he cared about the individual. Nihilism causes people to live miserable, depressing lives with no possibility for glory or excellence (on the INDIVIDUAL level, eg the feeling of greatness and overcoming that comes from achieving a great task). Religion gave us meaning, but we destroyed it, so now we have to look elsewhere, otherwise we become nihilists and live in spiritual mediocrity.
> "Man is a rope, tied between beast and overman--a rope over an abyss...
>What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not an end: what can be loved in man is that he is an overture and a going under...
>Alas, the time is coming when man will no longer give birth to a star. Alas, the time of the most despicable man is coming, he that is no longer able to despise himself. Behold, I show you the last man.
>'What is love? What is creation? What is longing? What is a star?' thus asks the last man, and blinks.
>The earth has become small, and on it hops the last man, who makes everything small. His race is as ineradicable as the flea; the last man lives longest.
>'We have invented happiness,'say the last men, and they blink. They have left the regions where it was hard to live, for one needs warmth. One still loves one's neighbor and rubs against him, for one needs warmth...
>One still works, for work is a form of entertainment. But one is careful lest the entertainment be too harrowing. One no longer becomes poor or rich: both require too much exertion. Who still wants to rule? Who obey? Both require too much exertion.
>No shepherd and one herd! Everybody wants the same, everybody is the same: whoever feels different goes voluntarily into a madhouse.
>'Formerly, all the world was mad,' say the most refined, and they blink...
>One has one's little pleasure for the day and one's little pleasure for the night: but one has a regard for health.
>'We have invented happiness,' say the last men, and they blink."
>>59993443 i think Nietzsche would say that it doesn't matter whether or not the universe is objectively meaningless. Meaning is a human experience that we apply subjectively. If there is an objective meaning, Nietzsche doesn't think we can ever know it, we can just catch glimpses of it if we live our lives with intensity and affirmation
>>59993711 "we can just catch glimpses of it if we live our lives with intensity and affirmation" Prove it. I think that we're in agreement that nihilism is defeatist and negative but the only available option for the question for meaning is nothing.
>>59993892 it's subjective. Kierkegaard would say that a "leap of faith" is required. Sartre would say to confront nothingness and fill the hole with volition. Nietzsche would say that you must "roar no" to nihilism and choose to live in affirmation against hope.
>“I want to learn more and more to see as beautiful what is necessary in things; then I shall be one of those who make things beautiful. Amor fati: let that be my love henceforth! I do not want to wage war against what is ugly. I do not want to accuse; I do not even want to accuse those who accuse. Looking away shall be my only negation. And all in all and on the whole: some day I wish to be only a Yea-sayer.”
>>59990208 ninilism is based upon observation, perception and contemplation of the human condition from the perspective of a human. anything based only upon these things is worthless. nihilism is fine to reset all the horrible conditioning western society fills your head with. when you have reset you need to add a base of instinct and nature upon nihilism. this seems irrational at first, but blindly following instict is the most optimal, sane and intelligent thing any animal can do.
>>59993892 Nietzche also thinks that history is important for putting the world in context. Sartre starts with man in his predicament- "I'm just me, I just happen to exist and everything else is irrelevant". Nietzsche would say the opposite- "I exist because of everything that happened in the past to lead up to this exact moment, everything has a cause, everything has a context, including me"
ultimately the miscommunication between us is that you are looking for an objective, scientific (materialistic) answer to a question that is subjective and spiritual.
>>59994259 its human instinct to go fuck everything i am going to live, fight , strife and thrive. sartre and nietzche are both correct but for the wrong reasons. ultimately they were too egoic to accept all the contemplation that they did was worthless and that the only thing that matters is the results your belief system manifest.
>>59995118 that's fine, but like I said, you're looking for an objective answer to a subjective question. It doesn't exist, there's only an infinite regress of subjective interpretations. It's like looking for an objective review of Star Wars. You can find good reviews, bad reviews, reviews you can agree with, reviews you disagree with, but ultimately there's not a mathematically correct opinion.
The best opinion on the subject I've found probably comes from Heidegger, and Heraclitus (who influenced Heidegger). We die, leaving behind a legacy through our actions and the image we created for ourselves, and hopefully in living that life we were able to die with dignity. Our bodies whither and decay, and return to the Logos, and eventually it all ends, and probably starts again in some new way. This captures Nietzsche's eternal recurrence to a degree.
It's an extremely "pagan" worldview in a way- everything in the universe is connected in that it shares in Being, and even upon our death we will still impact the various manifestations of Being, both through our actions in life and the physical substance of our dead bodies. Like the Norse Ragnarok, eventually everything will come to an end, and cycles will start anew
>>59995760 That's my point exactly, if there is a void of objective answers then the only logical conclusion is that one does not exist. I.E Nothing I.E nihilism. On a side note, I do hope you're the one who's right about the whole infinite cycle thing. It sounds nice.
>>59995877 no. they were a bane to the species. they made so many pseduointellectuals waste their lives on mental masturbation and defeatism. if they had of never existed the world would be a better place.
>>59995760 still foolishly looking for an out. the best any human can do is accept they dont know what happens after death, not fill it with a retarded semi spiritual belief system. time doesnt accept, according to m-theory you are already dead but you are alive at the same time and your entire life has already happened. but your purpose has already been fulfillied as you are part of a zero sum entity, without you it would not be zero sum.
it's not as fruit loops as it sounds on the surface. actually, Heidegger would probably say that your opinion (that everyone is going to die and there's no forever-after) is a very authentic view of life. For Heidegger, the most important fact about our lives is that we are doomed to die, and that every moment of our lives in which we are not reflecting on this fact is inauthentic. By accepting death, and living tragically, we can attempt to live authentic and meaningful lives (both of those terms being subjective).
I don't know think that the cycle thing necessarily implies that everything starts over- rather, being continues to manifest in new ways. We may never experience "consciousness" again, but we will still have existed as a part of Being and will have shared in (and contributed to) its procession. To paraphrase Heraclitus, we step into the river, and step out, and the river is still the same, though new water flows by.
>>59996486 I never claimed anything about life after death. Even if I were "reborn" i would have absolutely no awareness of it.
>>59996463 i don't think that subjectivity implies that nihilism must be true, it just means that you can't search for materialistic "truth" in a subjective question (the parameters for which are defined by language, cultural constructs, etc etc)
>>59996732 "2+2+4" This means? Solipsism is the end result of of logic. To put forth the whole of my position, I hate solipsism and think it should be avoided at all costs, as should nihilism honestly. I'm just interested to see if anyone could provide a convincing argument otherwise. I'm playing Devil's advocate honestly.
>>59997462 it means objective truth blatantly exists you fucking pleb. solipsism is the most deceived ideology you could ever find your way to. good job ignoring the 2 other examples of blatant objective truth i posted. there are millions for retards like you to disregard so that you can be comfortable retards in choosing to think nothing is knowable. you people are the greatest cancer ever conceivable.
>>59997905 No you didn't. Mathematics is ultimately inductive and therefor not objective. Have you done this equation the infinite amount of times needed prove it and then how will you know that your senses have not lied to you?
>>59998390 >having a 4 pound symmetrical cake and cutting it in half will not always give you 2 >mathematics is not objective what do you say to somebody who is so brainwashed as to believe in such nonsense as truth doesnt exist. then the saying nothing is knowable because when you call them out on saying "truth doesnt exist trust me its the truth" they have to go full retard and deny any work ever created by men with actual functioning brains. >physics is fake >math doesnt work >being hungry doesnt make me hungry
i have come to the conclusion that half of you guys are psychopaths either involved in luciferianism or on the pay roll of the psychopaths who want plebs to believe this nonsense so that they are pacified into thinking nothing is real anyway. "why would i stand up to child rapists? that bleeding vagina isnt actually bleeding." fuck you.
>>60001589 "lluciferianism" >muh-jewluminatti Poor child,if you're dreaming then what's to stop the cake from turning into a bird? How do you know that you're not just a psyche ward patient dreaming all of this?
>>60002102 listen you fucking spastic. in this existence right here, there are inarguable objective truths. kill yourself and see whats in the next existence because youre never going to turn a cake into a bird holy fuck. all these spinoff ideologies all spawn from psychopaths promoting that truth doesn't exist. and it ends up with solipsism because thats the level of retardation is has to get to. >im the only consciousness there is >im sure of it >but thats not true because truth doesnt exist >im god and figured it all out >im still shitposting on 4chan >everything ive read that has lead me to this belief has been AI that i created without remembering just for the eternal struggle of trying to remember i am god >im retarded and cant comprehend that 2+2 will always equal 4 so i came up with a philosophy to justify my stupidity by saying its unknowable because im too braindead to comprehend reality >weaker force can overcome stronger force but i have no example of this ever occurring or can think of no situation where it could ever occur >im retarded
>>60002974 >thinks inception was a documentary >is a solipsist >"its possible i may be dreaming this existence but i have no objective proof that this is the case" >objectively states that solipsism is the only logical conclusion >everybody else is actually nobody and i actually know everything and my iq is not 83 its really 150 but i cant understand string theory or chaos theory in this dream >randomness is definitely real
>>60003147 i dont even give a fuck if you think you are the only consciousness in existence. in this physical existence that your shitposting in right now, you will always be a slave to your desires. try getting around that. >gotta piss >im not a slave ill hold it in forever >pisses himself >how can urine be real if toilets are not real
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