Prove to me that Nihilism isn't the only objectively

>>59990208
>Nietzsche was a nihilist

>>59990208
>philosophy
>objectively valid
Yeah, no.

>>59990208
no & i don't have to prove it to you.

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My digits say otherwise

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>>59990208

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>objectively valid

>>59990208
Say what you will about the tenants of National Socialism, at least it's an ethos.

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>be nietzsche
>recognize early in life that nihilism is going to be the bane of human existence
>work desperately to show that there can be a pursuit of meaning in spite of the collapse of religion
>write yourself into a philosophy-induced nervous breakdown trying to show that we can overcome nihilism by pursuing passion, art, self-ownership and struggle
>100+ years later
>faggot teenagers think that you are a nihilist and claim to use your philosophy to justify hedonistic meaningless living

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>>59990295
He was in theory, not in practice. A true nihilist wouldn't have wasted all that time trying to enlighten his brethren. The atheist nihilist is the height of enlightenment a man can attain on earth. Achieving this end he departs from this world for distant sectors of the universe and other worlds.

>>59990614
Inasmuch as meaning driven philosophies all have inherent unproveable assumptions, is not complete meaninglessness not the only option?

>>59990208
Living things must act to survive and procreate. Through natural selection, this rules of life conceived the human brain. Its design and function is based on comparing different things and actions against eachother, assigning value to them, and finding the best course of action given the current situation.

Nihilism assigns no value to any action or thing. While that might be technichally true, the purpose of human cognition is not to find truth. Not at the expense of acting.

It's rather to act, and establishing what is true and what isnt, is only warranted if doing so is necessary to facilitate acting.

Nihilism thus goes against human nature. It is (in the long run) unsustainable as a practical philosophy of everyday life.

Because nothing is valid.

>>59990925
please identify the inherent, unproveable assumptions that Rand makes.

>>59990208
>denying truth exists
>not realizing thats tier 1 kike deception

>>59990907
he wasn't even a nihilist in theory

did you pay attention to anything he said?

>>59991003
Prove that truth exists.

>>59990208

>Linkin Park: the Philosopher

You need to be at least 18 to post on this site

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>>59990208
>be Nietzsche
>be a faggot philosopher writing bullshit
>become isane
>die in as a pathetic crazy old lonely autist
>many decades later neckbeards worship you

>>59991000
That anything is inherently good or bad and that there is any reason other than whim that they are called so.

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>>59990208
>be nietzsche
>emo and angsty
>breaks down and decides to write books about his angst
>overcomes it
>years later, people admire his angst.
Mfw

>>59991074
>a complete and total ad hominem
>assumptive reasoning to refute and unaddressed argument
Fuck outa here.

No such thing as objective standards of you're a nihilist

Nihilist leads to indifference which leads to white genocide. It's where we're at. And this is objectively negative and destructive.

>>59991448
"white genocide"
What's negative?
What's destructive?
Give me a reason to believe you.

>>59991314
>>59991188
>>59990907

>i'm a knuckle-dragging retard who doesn't read books

>>59990711
Underrated post.

>>59990782

So much this. He's not even hard to understand.

>>59990782
I'm not going to dispute that my own subjective morals go against nihilistic teachings but, what else is there? Is in, the reason it would destroy humanity is that we just can't deal with how tiny and worthless we are, doomed from the start to progress like a fire until we're consumed by heatdeath.

>>59992592
Nietzsche didn't care about humanity as a whole, he cared about the individual. Nihilism causes people to live miserable, depressing lives with no possibility for glory or excellence (on the INDIVIDUAL level, eg the feeling of greatness and overcoming that comes from achieving a great task). Religion gave us meaning, but we destroyed it, so now we have to look elsewhere, otherwise we become nihilists and live in spiritual mediocrity.

> "Man is a rope, tied between beast and overman--a rope over an abyss...

>What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not an end: what can be loved in man is that he is an overture and a going under...


>Alas, the time is coming when man will no longer give birth to a star. Alas, the time of the most despicable man is coming, he that is no longer able to despise himself. Behold, I show you the last man.

>'What is love? What is creation? What is longing? What is a star?' thus asks the last man, and blinks.

>The earth has become small, and on it hops the last man, who makes everything small. His race is as ineradicable as the flea; the last man lives longest.

>'We have invented happiness,'say the last men, and they blink. They have left the regions where it was hard to live, for one needs warmth. One still loves one's neighbor and rubs against him, for one needs warmth...

>One still works, for work is a form of entertainment. But one is careful lest the entertainment be too harrowing. One no longer becomes poor or rich: both require too much exertion. Who still wants to rule? Who obey? Both require too much exertion.

>No shepherd and one herd! Everybody wants the same, everybody is the same: whoever feels different goes voluntarily into a madhouse.

>'Formerly, all the world was mad,' say the most refined, and they blink...

>One has one's little pleasure for the day and one's little pleasure for the night: but one has a regard for health.

>'We have invented happiness,' say the last men, and they blink."

>>59993220
I'm not disputing whether or not Nihilism makes you feel good. I'm asking for some evidence that the universe isn't altogether meaningless. An unpleasent truth is no less true.

>>59993443
i think Nietzsche would say that it doesn't matter whether or not the universe is objectively meaningless. Meaning is a human experience that we apply subjectively. If there is an objective meaning, Nietzsche doesn't think we can ever know it, we can just catch glimpses of it if we live our lives with intensity and affirmation

It sounds reasonable. Any rational nihilist finds something to pretend to believe so they don't devolve jnto degeneracy and self destruction

>>59993711
"we can just catch glimpses of it if we live our lives with intensity and affirmation"
Prove it.
I think that we're in agreement that nihilism is defeatist and negative but the only available option for the question for meaning is nothing.

>>59993861
I'd say that my pretense would be humanism.
If I were to truly internalize my nihilism I'd probably just kill myself.

>>59993892
it's subjective. Kierkegaard would say that a "leap of faith" is required. Sartre would say to confront nothingness and fill the hole with volition. Nietzsche would say that you must "roar no" to nihilism and choose to live in affirmation against hope.

>“I want to learn more and more to see as beautiful what is necessary in things; then I shall be one of those who make things beautiful. Amor fati: let that be my love henceforth! I do not want to wage war against what is ugly. I do not want to accuse; I do not even want to accuse those who accuse. Looking away shall be my only negation. And all in all and on the whole: some day I wish to be only a Yea-sayer.”

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>>59990208
ninilism is based upon observation, perception and contemplation of the human condition from the perspective of a human. anything based only upon these things is worthless. nihilism is fine to reset all the horrible conditioning western society fills your head with. when you have reset you need to add a base of instinct and nature upon nihilism. this seems irrational at first, but blindly following instict is the most optimal, sane and intelligent thing any animal can do.

>>59993892
Nietzche also thinks that history is important for putting the world in context. Sartre starts with man in his predicament- "I'm just me, I just happen to exist and everything else is irrelevant". Nietzsche would say the opposite- "I exist because of everything that happened in the past to lead up to this exact moment, everything has a cause, everything has a context, including me"

ultimately the miscommunication between us is that you are looking for an objective, scientific (materialistic) answer to a question that is subjective and spiritual.

>>59994259
I'm inclined to agree that Nietzsche's idea of "roar no" is needed to live a life that most people would be happy with but it seems the ultimate conclusion is that even that is a farce.

>>59990782
Someone should screencap this, it's very accurate.

>>59994751
My personal, subjective opinion is that the only philosophy worth holding (in my case at least) is one that can be demonstrated true.

>>59994259
its human instinct to go fuck everything i am going to live, fight , strife and thrive. sartre and nietzche are both correct but for the wrong reasons. ultimately they were too egoic to accept all the contemplation that they did was worthless and that the only thing that matters is the results your belief system manifest.

>>59995118
Anything can be "true" logically. Truth is subjective.

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>>59994877
Here ya go.

>>59995364
So you're a nihilist?

>>59995118
that's fine, but like I said, you're looking for an objective answer to a subjective question. It doesn't exist, there's only an infinite regress of subjective interpretations. It's like looking for an objective review of Star Wars. You can find good reviews, bad reviews, reviews you can agree with, reviews you disagree with, but ultimately there's not a mathematically correct opinion.

The best opinion on the subject I've found probably comes from Heidegger, and Heraclitus (who influenced Heidegger). We die, leaving behind a legacy through our actions and the image we created for ourselves, and hopefully in living that life we were able to die with dignity. Our bodies whither and decay, and return to the Logos, and eventually it all ends, and probably starts again in some new way. This captures Nietzsche's eternal recurrence to a degree.

It's an extremely "pagan" worldview in a way- everything in the universe is connected in that it shares in Being, and even upon our death we will still impact the various manifestations of Being, both through our actions in life and the physical substance of our dead bodies. Like the Norse Ragnarok, eventually everything will come to an end, and cycles will start anew

>>59995447
Thanks, community!

>>59995666
Nope.

>>59995289
They both manifested more results with their books than you ever will.

>>59990295
He was not a nihilist at all infact he saw nihilism as a great danger. His philosophy is sometimes refered to as Niezschean Nihilism which isnt Nihilism at all.

Also:
>Nihilism
>valid

pick one.

>>59990208
>nietzsche
>objectively

do you even nihilism

>>59995760
That's my point exactly, if there is a void of objective answers then the only logical conclusion is that one does not exist. I.E Nothing I.E nihilism.
On a side note, I do hope you're the one who's right about the whole infinite cycle thing. It sounds nice.

>>59995877
no. they were a bane to the species. they made so many pseduointellectuals waste their lives on mental masturbation and defeatism. if they had of never existed the world would be a better place.

>>59995760
still foolishly looking for an out. the best any human can do is accept they dont know what happens after death, not fill it with a retarded semi spiritual belief system. time doesnt accept, according to m-theory you are already dead but you are alive at the same time and your entire life has already happened. but your purpose has already been fulfillied as you are part of a zero sum entity, without you it would not be zero sum.

>>59996463
>if there is a void of objective answers then the only logical conclusion is that one does not exist. I.E Nothing I.E nihilism.

But existence exists, obviously the default state of things is existence. Checkmate nihilism.

>>59990295
Nietzsche was a nihilist in denial looking for an alternative. He never really did find anything worthwhile.

>>59991070
2+2=4
greater force overcomes smaller force
desiring control over others makes you a slave to their existence
>truth isnt real
>trust me its the truth that truth isnt real

your next response
"we cant know"
you subhuman animals are extremely predictable

u r all a laughingstock

>>59996718
GG BOYS TIME TO GO HOME

>>59996718
Prove that you exist.

>>59996925
new age book section on amazon that way >>>>>

>>59996771
>first they laugh at you
>then they fight you
>then you win
only the weak are afraid of ridicule

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>>59996925
>arguing Solipsism
>mfw

>>59995760
>>59996463

it's not as fruit loops as it sounds on the surface. actually, Heidegger would probably say that your opinion (that everyone is going to die and there's no forever-after) is a very authentic view of life. For Heidegger, the most important fact about our lives is that we are doomed to die, and that every moment of our lives in which we are not reflecting on this fact is inauthentic. By accepting death, and living tragically, we can attempt to live authentic and meaningful lives (both of those terms being subjective).

I don't know think that the cycle thing necessarily implies that everything starts over- rather, being continues to manifest in new ways. We may never experience "consciousness" again, but we will still have existed as a part of Being and will have shared in (and contributed to) its procession. To paraphrase Heraclitus, we step into the river, and step out, and the river is still the same, though new water flows by.

>>59996486
I never claimed anything about life after death. Even if I were "reborn" i would have absolutely no awareness of it.

>>59996463
i don't think that subjectivity implies that nihilism must be true, it just means that you can't search for materialistic "truth" in a subjective question (the parameters for which are defined by language, cultural constructs, etc etc)

>>59996925
That is a more interesting question.

>>59997140

shoo shoo go to sleep

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The last Christain died on the cross

- Friedrich Nietzsche

>>59996732
"2+2+4"
This means?
Solipsism is the end result of of logic.
To put forth the whole of my position, I hate solipsism and think it should be avoided at all costs, as should nihilism honestly. I'm just interested to see if anyone could provide a convincing argument otherwise. I'm playing Devil's advocate honestly.

>>59997462
Wittgenstein would say that this whole conversation is pointless because all we are arguing about is what words mean

>>59997634
And that's why it amuses me. I'm having a lot of fun with this thread.

>>59997462
it means objective truth blatantly exists you fucking pleb. solipsism is the most deceived ideology you could ever find your way to. good job ignoring the 2 other examples of blatant objective truth i posted. there are millions for retards like you to disregard so that you can be comfortable retards in choosing to think nothing is knowable.
you people are the greatest cancer ever conceivable.

i'm gonna go to bet but i'm gonna drop this here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_os-ysZJM_I

Bowden isn't always on his rocker but this is actually a decent introduction to Heidegger and has a lot of interesting commentary/stories

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>>59997261
>>>/trash/

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>>59997227
>solipsism
>interesting

A woman may very well form a true friendship with a man, but for this to endure, it must be assisted by physical antipathy.

>Friedrich Nietzsche

>>59997905
No you didn't. Mathematics is ultimately inductive and therefor not objective. Have you done this equation the infinite amount of times needed prove it and then how will you know that your senses have not lied to you?

Eh...

>>59996925
Cogito ergo sum. Checkmate Solipsists.

>>59998867
How do you know?
This is why solipsism can be fun but should ultimately be shunned. You can't beat me because I can always call your senses or even existence into question.

>>59999273
>You can't beat me because I can always call your senses or even existence into question.

Bullshit. I can invalidate your questioning far easier then you can invalidate my existence. I am responding to you, therefore I exist.

>>59999800
Prove that I'm real then. Am I a program, an AI or a fever dream? How do you know that the entirety of your reality is not the feeble hallucination of a starving child on Pluto.

What if I'm the only real person and you're just an aspect of my mind trying to keep me asleep.

>>59998390
>having a 4 pound symmetrical cake and cutting it in half will not always give you 2
>mathematics is not objective
what do you say to somebody who is so brainwashed as to believe in such nonsense as truth doesnt exist.
then the saying nothing is knowable because when you call them out on saying "truth doesnt exist trust me its the truth" they have to go full retard and deny any work ever created by men with actual functioning brains.
>physics is fake
>math doesnt work
>being hungry doesnt make me hungry

i have come to the conclusion that half of you guys are psychopaths either involved in luciferianism or on the pay roll of the psychopaths who want plebs to believe this nonsense so that they are pacified into thinking nothing is real anyway.
"why would i stand up to child rapists? that bleeding vagina isnt actually bleeding."
fuck you.

>>59999273
>I can always call your senses or even existence into question

mirror times infinity.

i win.

>>60001368
what if i gang rape you with tyrone and daquan? shhhh its only a dream. sleep easy now, the pain you feel is not your butthole being turned out. you are really kingz and shieet from narnia.

>>60001589
"lluciferianism"
>muh-jewluminatti
Poor child,if you're dreaming then what's to stop the cake from turning into a bird?
How do you know that you're not just a psyche ward patient dreaming all of this?

>>60001672
Please define what you mean, I would love to be proven wrong.

>>60002061
>nigger rape a penalty for disagreeing with me
liberal detected

>>60002061
What if it is a dream, "pleb"?

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>>60002191
im holding up a mirror to you but its times infinity so you can never hold a mirror back.

i win.

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>>60002520
And how do I know I'm not dreaming in this instance or that you are real?

>>60002102
listen you fucking spastic. in this existence right here, there are inarguable objective truths. kill yourself and see whats in the next existence because youre never going to turn a cake into a bird holy fuck. all these spinoff ideologies all spawn from psychopaths promoting that truth doesn't exist. and it ends up with solipsism because thats the level of retardation is has to get to.
>im the only consciousness there is
>im sure of it
>but thats not true because truth doesnt exist
>im god and figured it all out
>im still shitposting on 4chan
>everything ive read that has lead me to this belief has been AI that i created without remembering just for the eternal struggle of trying to remember i am god
>im retarded and cant comprehend that 2+2 will always equal 4 so i came up with a philosophy to justify my stupidity by saying its unknowable because im too braindead to comprehend reality
>weaker force can overcome stronger force but i have no example of this ever occurring or can think of no situation where it could ever occur
>im retarded

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>>60003052
Prove that I'm not god, faggot.
Prove that I'm real.
Prove that what you see is real.
BTFO

can i get some recommended reading on this big guy id like to know more

>>60002974
>thinks inception was a documentary
>is a solipsist
>"its possible i may be dreaming this existence but i have no objective proof that this is the case"
>objectively states that solipsism is the only logical conclusion
>everybody else is actually nobody and i actually know everything and my iq is not 83 its really 150 but i cant understand string theory or chaos theory in this dream
>randomness is definitely real

>>60003328
Solipsism doesn't really require any reading or even intellect to maintain.
For Nihilism I'd just recommend Nietzche for starters. Camus is a cool dude as well.

>>59996486
>says holding a semi-spiritual belief system is retarded
>represents m-theory
top kek

>>60003557
i mean like specific books familia or texts for nietzche

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>>60003501
Once again, prove me wrong, faggot.

>>60003651
"Antichrist" is the last work he did, and it's said to be a singular recapitulation of his philosophy.

Steer clear of the manuscript "Will To Power", as it was stitched together from his notes by his sister after his death, and it does not represent his philosophy.

>>60003651
My personal favorite authors for nihilistic motifs are Poe and Lovecraft. Camus' the Stranger is good too.

>>60003147
i dont even give a fuck if you think you are the only consciousness in existence. in this physical existence that your shitposting in right now, you will always be a slave to your desires. try getting around that.
>gotta piss
>im not a slave ill hold it in forever
>pisses himself
>how can urine be real if toilets are not real

>>60004082
Who's to say I cannot be a slave even if this all is my imagination?
Who's to say we have free will or can control anything?

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>>60003893
thanks man

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>>59999273
Tell you what faggot. i exist because youre reading this. checkmate

also check these existent dubs while your at it

>>60004840
But what if I'm the dream then?

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>>60004998
The fact you fed me a reply is enough to say that the replies exist, ergo us.


wake up then faggot. oh wait your cant cuz you dont actually believe that voodoo.

>>60005132
But what if you're dreaming, or I'm dreaming? Spooky, somullent 4chan
Correct, just playing Devil's advocate.

>>60005267
well you cant prove either so just take a leap of faith and decide or stop posting

>>60005493
but shit posting is fun, collective.

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>>60005545
yea look your not wrong