My opinion on nursing

>>41511894
OP, nurses still need to know standard medical proceedure, which is often required when dealing with unstable patients.

>>41511894
>opinion, naive

The first person that will intervene in an emergency will be a nurse.
You shit your pants? Nurse comes and aids you.
Tachycardia? Nurse!
They deal with your bullshit and idiotic patients 24/7.

Typically, medical technicians (which is what they are) are more valuable to a patient than doctors. Doctors don't know anything past their experience and doctors are way more inexperienced than nurses.

Now imagine a hospital without any nurses to do these "low level jobs". It wouldn't survive.

>>41511894
Is the difference perhaps that nursing is something better taught on the job through hands on methods then at uni through books?

>>41512113
Police put up with a lot of bullshit to but that doesn't mean it's not a low level job.

>>41511894
Medical doctors do no real work (except surgeons and ER docs) They examine, diagnose, and perscribe medicine.

Your doctor doesnt do any tests, lab techs do that.

Your doctor doesnt give you medicine, help you go to the bathroom, or show you how to continue your care at home, nurses do most of that.

Everyone else does much more work with patients than MD's do.

Nurses are still vital to the operation of a hospital and make a difference for people there everyday. Why should somebody be judged for persuading an easy degree when they're helping people who really need it everyday intelligence be damned or not.

There is more to life then somebody's IQ.

>>41512335
So everyone assists the doctor to help him make the diagnosis easier?

>>41511894

Weigh people.
Measure people.
Take a temperature doctor checks anyway.
Blood pressure test doctor takes anyway.
An injection here or there.
Wipe old people ass.
Wash old people ass.
Let the doctor know when they take a shit.

Did I get everything?

>>41511894
>Shitting on someone who actually helps the public
OP pls.
You can argue and talk shit about a lot of professions. But nursing isn't one of them, they are selfless people.

>>41511894
Oh boy, it's Australia again. Big surprise.

>Nursing
>Not a real degree
How naive.

Nurses play a large and important role in the health field. Without them, the health system would FAIL. This isn't joke.

There is a reason nursing is always in demand.

It is not the most difficult job, but it is not easy.

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they do an incredibly important job and i imagine there is a lot of room for them to get trained up to do certain things very cheaply compared to how much it would cost to have a doctor do everything. so basically don't diss.

>>41512190
I'm a student myself right now and I believe it should be closer to 50/50.
Placements within a hospital environment for each semester are only 3 weeks. That is insane.
Also, shit thread OP....

Fuck off OP, you sound like a master edgelord.

If you ever experience a loved one dying in a hospital, you'll come to appreciate what nurses do for people, especially the ones in palliative care.

>>41512294
What does that have to do with anything we are discussing here? Your argument might as well have been "Well bananas are yellow and apples are red!"

>>41512371
MD's might as well be replaced with automatons at this point...You're portraying the doctors as these highlords while the nurses are the serfs. Truth is, without nurses, the doctors are useless. They have no technical knowledge.

Had a friend who got out of the Marines a few years ago and used his G.I bill to go to nursing school. They only accepted like 60 people a year out of 300 applicants, all his pre req grades had to be damn near 4.0. He got in and said that his clinical practicum was one of the most challenging things he's had to do.. Op would likely not be smart enough to even be selected.

>>41512600
My grandmother died in a hospital and I appreciate what the low level employees did to help.

Just like I appreciate a nice hair cut.

Or the cleaners keeping the hospital clean

or the garbage man taking the trash away

or police patroling the neighbourhood

or any other low level employees role in society.

>>41512707
Then why do doctors have bigger pay?

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>>41512453
Yeah they don't do anything.. Here's a few surgical nurses not doing anything important

>>41512791
Edgy faggot.

>>41512833
Because they're on call 24/7. Doctor's jobs are by no means easy, but for you to shit on a nurse? That's just fucking dumb.

>>41512863
>It's just like a hairdresser! haha!
t.
edglord op

>>41511894
Can you, for one second, stop being a fuckwit?

Honestly, I think your opinion is shit.

>>41512867
No doctors make more because they have 4 years pre med, 4 years medical school, and 2 years residency before they are an MD.. V.S 2 years or 4 years education for a normal nurse.

I think nursing is an easy degree for people who are not smart enough to get a real degree or become a dr.

It's the medical equivalent to a hair dresser..

Yet nurses always rave on, "we're not just doctors assistants, we have our own independent role in the hospital system" blah blah blah

>Sure nurses are under appreciated but they are DR's assistants.. Stop putting your average ass job on such a high pedistool.

In some hospitals they even have the nurses mop the floors and take out trash.
Thanks for all the work and care you put into the job however this is just how I see it

How is stating facts about nurses being low level employees " shitting on them" as you call it.

How is it easy? It requires knowledge of a lot of info and only the top 30% are accepted into nursing school or some shit

>pedistool

>not smart

>>41512940
Nurses do not mop floors and take out garbage. Are you fuckin stupid?

If youre only saying that because you saw some spics in scrubs doing those things, its because if youre not in administration or in the cafeteria, almost all all hopsital staff wear scrubs.

>>41512940
the start of your shit thread:
>I think nursing is an easy degree for people who are not smart enough to get a real degree or become a dr.
>It's the medical equivalent to a hair dresser..
>Yet nurses always rave on, "we're not just doctors assistants, we have our own independent role in the hospital system" blah blah blah
>>Sure nurses are under appreciated but they are DR's assistants.. Stop putting your average ass job on such a high pedistool.
>In some hospitals they even have the nurses mop the floors and take out trash.
>Thanks for all the work and care you put into the job however this is just how I see it
>How is stating facts about nurses being low level employees " shitting on them" as you call it.
what you just said:
>I think nursing is an easy degree for people who are not smart enough to get a real degree or become a dr.

>It's the medical equivalent to a hair dresser..

>Yet nurses always rave on, "we're not just doctors assistants, we have our own independent role in the hospital system" blah blah blah

>Sure nurses are under appreciated but they are DR's assistants.. Stop putting your average ass job on such a high pedistool.

>In some hospitals they even have the nurses mop the floors and take out trash.
>Thanks for all the work and care you put into the job however this is just how I see it.

Repeating yourself like a drooling retard?

>>41512940
>Disregards all the information posted on this thread to the contrary.

What superior faggot kangaroo degree do you have? Since nursing is apparently so "easy"

>>41512980
Maybe in America.

Univeristies let anyone in these days pretty much.

I think a lot of people don't understand that there are multiple levels in nursing. An LPN/LVN has one to two years of training, and most likely works at a nursing home for around $12/hr. Their training is primarily on-the-job in long-term care facilities and their medical training is not as extensive.

An RN though will have the same undergraduate anatomy, physiology, psychology, and microbiology courses as pre-Med, pre-PT, or other healthcare specializations. Most will complete their BSN with pharmocology, pathophysiology, and years of field training. There are a few 2-year RN programs in the US, but they are being phased out for 4 years RNs.

Physicians will overall have more knowledge because they will extend their training for an additional 7-12 years after their bachelor's degree.

That said, nurses can go up to Masters and Doctorates, becoming Clinical Nursing Specialists in certain fields, or Nurse Practitioners. More and more states are allowing Nurse Practitioners to open their own practices, as they can perform medical diagnosis and write scripts. All NPs are going to be Doctorate only within the next 10 years, as they are adding to the education requirements.

>>41513027
First year IT and interactive design.

>>41512863
>scrub nurse listens and follows directions given to them

any non-nigger could do that

>>41513051

>IT
>real degree

LAFF

>>41513045
This, OP thinks nurses aides = RN

Just ignore the stupid australoid

Pharmacist here.

OP is a faggot and ignorant about the healthcare system.

>>41513051
>calls nursing an easy degree
>is getting an IT degree

0/10 this is bait

what makes you think IT degrees are easy?

>all those lies
>all that ignorance

nurses do twice the work doctors do for half the pay
you are actually retarded

long walk
short cliff
go

>>41513056
Those were all nurses working independently before the doctor even assessed the situation. You know nothing and should probably just keep sucking dick and let grown ups talk

>>41513080
i have family and friends that work as nurses and they go on and on about how their so awesome because they wipe peoples asses and stick tubes in them.

they're just glorified maids.

>>41513149
twice the work for half the pay?

why is that you think?

It's not because they are low level employees.

>>41513125
The fact that you don't even need school to get one, you can literally teach yourself. All you need are certs. IT is about as rigorous as an English lit degree.

In America a nurse is considered a respectable profession, with a college degree requirement and everything.

When my mother was a nurse in a slavshit country she said the social standing of nurses was between a cleaning lady and a prostitute.

>>41513191
This guy hit the nail on the head>>41513045
Shut the fuck up. You think an lpn/aide= RN

You're retarded

>>41513160
kek, you think they wandered in on their own you retard? They're in the goddamn OR, after getting the low down from the big cheese in the hairnet back there

>>41513183
You know this because your years of experience in a hospital right?

>>41513183
This, it's annoying listening to nurses talk about how great they are.

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>>41512358
>then

>>41513287
I would have chosen persuading

>>41513238
You understand in emergency situations nurses do make decisions right? They don't administer medication unless they're a nurse practitioner. Which shows you know nothing about nursing. There are levels of nursing.

>>41513265

Where are you hearing this from? Most nurses I know hate their job because it's very hard and demanding.

>>41513265
yeah, I bet it makes you feel pretty useless seeing you do nothing but bitch at the very people who try and save you.

>>41513320
He's talking to nurses aides. He is ignorant on this topic, ignore him.

>>41513209
Every IT person I know has a degree and a specialization. That's how you make real guap. Enjoy working Helpdesk m8

>>41513238
Paramedics brought him in you know nothing moron. Then the nurses took over and got to work before the doctor set foot in there. But go ahead and feel free to keep thinking you have any idea of what your talking about.. Faggot

>>41513320
Pretty much any nurse will talk themselves up.

>We do more work the doctors
>we are not just assistants
>we help people
>we actually can write scripts in certain situations

blah blah blah you're like a medical maid.

>>41513344
Implying I work in pleb tier career like IT

>>41513342
No, im not I'm talking to nurses that gradiuated with honours degrees.

>>41513378
Doctors are way more important than nurses. I agree a lot are full of themselves.

Prepare to have your thread bombarded with anally devastated nursing grads who think that emptying shit out of a bedpan makes them an innately better person than any other person, especially better than doctors who did a harder degree at uni because they were smart enough to not want to empty shit out of a bed pan for their living. Nurses are probably the single most defensive people on the planet.

>>41513378

That is all true to an extent.

>>41513363
The extent of the nurses taking over is covered entirely in what might as well be a 30 minute School House Rock video on prepping a 10x10 and scrubbing a leg with betadine

That's why I called them a fucking scrub nurse which is what your picture is of

>>41513420
>im not I'm talking to nurses
Okay, what type of nurses? And where are they working? Are they working in a clinic? A hostpital? nursing home? There are so many different types of nurses and you know nothing.

So
fucking
dumb

>>41513436
Agreed.

>>41513265
OP sounds like a mad faggot who was denied getting into nursing school, and his back up plan is IT.

Stay mad abo

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>>41513415

>IT
>pleb tier
Heh

>>41513456
To become an rn you need to do work placement in a hospital as part of your degree so all RN's have been in a hospital situation you dumb fucking idiot.

>>41513436
this. my grandma is this way. she was a nurse and she was mad when I was praising the Japanese for coming up with nursing robots to make hospitals more efficient

I don't understand why they get paid so much. My sister in law is an LPN (between an Aid and RN). She makes about $22 per hour with an Associates degree. I make $20 per hour with a Bachelors in IT and I am half way though my Masters degree. Not only that but I work at a fucking Engineering firm. Granted I live in Ohio so wages are lower here as the cost of living is lower, but I don't understand what they do that justifies their relatively high wage. Also, this girl is also crazy she spends time in a mental hospital at least once a year, and is always complaining about her various "medical problems" that are likely not even real.

>>41513493
>so all RN's have been in a hospital situation
...okay? Still not answering my questions..

>>41513526
Nasty shit, and it's in high demand

>>41513474
The only good wage there is Senior Software Engineer

>>41513227

Yeah, this seems to be the problem.

For added clarification:

CNA (Certified Nurses Assistant)
100 hours training
Skills: Mostly cleaning/personal care
Pay: $9/hr.

LPN (Licensed Practical Nurse)
1 year avg. training
Skills: IVs, vitals, a lot of personal care
Pay: $12/hr.

RN (Registered Nurse)
Most 4 year BSN degrees, 100s hrs. clinical time. (Pharm, Micro, A&P, Psych classes)
Skills: IVs/IM/SubQ, can push drugs, assessments, ET, NGs, caths. Can specialize and have some independent actions (Flight Nurse, Pre-hospital Nurse)
Pay: $60,000-70,000 average

APRN (Advanced Practice Registered Nurses)
Masters or Doctoral, 2-4 years past BSN

Includes:
Nurse Practitioner (Similar function to a PA), with specializations in Acute care, Adult, Family, Psychiatric. Can be fully independent.
Pay: $100k

Clinical Nurse Specialists are advanced practice nurses who are not generally independent, but choose to become specialists in a specific area.
Pay: $80k

Nurse administrators go into department direction.
Pay: Depends on the site size

Nurse anesthetist perform anesthesia in surgeries and procedures.
Pay: $140k (Actually can make more than family MDs)

So hopefully this shows that Nurses encompass a large spectrum of skills, which makes it kinda hard to compare to an MD/DO which is a single position educationally.

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>>41511894
>nursing
>easy degree
>medical equivalent to a hair dresser

You're talking about CNA, not nursing.

>>41513526
Hm probably because they deal with people who are actively dying and people in critical condition. Would you want to do that for your job? No? Then quit talking out your ass.

>>41513526

I would suggest looking for a government job related to your degree as it will probably pay better then private firms.

>>41513569
For 1 person even 50k is more than enough.

>>41513569
I'm sure no one on that list has to decompact a patient's asshole though

>>41513209
How do you get a degree in anything without going to school? Certs aren't enough, maybe back in the 90's you could get a job solely based off of certs. Not to say that certs aren't helpful, but by in large you need a degree to get a good paying IT job.

>>41513474
kek software engineering degree ≠ run of the mill IT degree. Stay dumb bro

>>41513589
CNA is growing fast because of the retiring baby boomers.

If you want a job. Go CNA.

>>41512930
That's a dumb excuse. you can easily pay back all that teaching much faster than your average college student when you're guaranteed a 6 figure job

>>41513654
>>41513654
>software engineering is only high paying IT job
Kek

>>41513662
>If you want a job. Go CNA.
haha, no. I'm going to be honest. It pays shit, and it's not easy. You may think it's easy and "dumb work" but have fun cleaning the rectum of a rape victim.

>>41513610
Maybe so but if education and experience mean anything I have her beat by a lot. You'd also think that given that it only takes two years there would be more people with her degree and thus the pay would be less, as there would be a larger pool of available candidates.

>>41513609
OP is just an arrogant doctor that likes to treat nurses and staff like shit. Seen a million of them.

>>41513589
>LPN (Licensed Practical Nurse)
>1 year avg. training
>Skills: IVs, vitals, a lot of personal care
>Pay: $12/hr.

this is inaccurate. I'm an LPN and I work at a nursing home and I make between 18-19$/hr depending on shift and if you are full time or PRN (PRN pays more)

I even work in one of the lower wage paying states, so 12/hr is pretty wrong for almost anything LPN's are trained to do

>>41513706
Pay is good though

>>41512113
Pretty much this. Nurses do less years of school but spend more years in practice. By the time Doctors are done getting degrees nurses already know how to keep their wet-earred asses from fucking things up.

Most doctors just get carted around to dole out diagnoses or prescribe pills, basically 90% you can Google your symptoms and be right.

>>41513728
9 dollars an hour is shit, you might as well become an LVN

>>41513750
Where the fuck are you making less than minimum wage as a nurse or nurses assistant? They make upwards of 30$ an hour here cause we have so many fucking old people.

>>41513614
Well, I guess if you're going into IT, you've given up all hope of getting married and having kids anyway.

Seriously, there are hundreds of jobs that start off at that salary with just a GED. Cops in my town start at 60k. You know you picked a shit career when cops make more than you do.

>Working
>2015

I prefer my frugal, stress free NEET lifestyle thank you very much.

>>41512113

all this salt. as a CSFA I shit on every RNFA who tries to do my job

yes you have a two year degree, congrats, you fucking rule, now leave the OR to real people with degrees. If every nursing role needed a master's like ours, then the whole healthcare system would improve

>>41513769
Where I live (Ohio) pay is $10 - $15 per hour. Average I would say is about $12.

>>41513769
7.25 is minimum wage here. CNA make 9 dollars. It's shit pay.

>>41513783
>get paid 60 grand to kill niggers indiscriminately in the US of A

What board do you think you're on?

>>41512863
those are surgical teches, surgical aides, first assist, and one nurse. congrats, you have no idea how an OR works

>>41513783
>Cops in my town start at 60k.

Bullshit, no they don't. Fuck off

>>41513718

You are probably in a better state for LPN pay, which I should have mentioned. Our state is pretty much owned by a single hospital system, so our nursing pay has been driven down. If you've ever heard of the UPMC health system, they've been eliminating most LPNs so they could rehire them as "techs" or replace them with Medical Assistants. Too costly for them to have licensed staff.

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The only job i would ever shit on for being useless is HR

>>41512113

This.

>>41513805
That's cause you live in a shithole 3rd world country where people literally make 9$ an hour at a job that everyone else in the world makes 3 times as much doing.

>>41512113
>>41513729
So much Dunning-Kruger effect here.

The most difficult thing in medicine, putting aside surgical procedures of course, is precisely to properly diagnose a condition.
Which is what Doctors do.

The treatment is fucking easy once identified.
We have databases where you just type what the condition is and you get told what medicines at what doses for what length of time you should use.

Nurses are entitled narcissistic cunts that are nothing more than assistants.

>>41513045
The intention of the post is not bad but a lot of what you state is very false, working in the nursing sector here is what is actually happening. LPN/LVN do not make 12$ an hour, CNAs do. I've never seen less than 16$ fresh out of school. Most make 18$-25$ and not working necessarily in nursing homes either, everywhere other than hospital, care facilities, agencies, home health, rehab etc. 2 year RN program is still the most popular way to go about things, they might not be in major universities but all colleges do them. They aren't going anywhere, though in saying that a lot of hospitals are only taking on bSN. Maybe I'm completely wrong for your state, but this is the case in Fl, one of the lowest paying states for nurses.

>>41513853
>That's cause you live in a shithole 3rd world country
>USA

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>>41511894
>In some hospitals they even have the nurses mop the floors and take out trash.
Maybe where your from.

>>41513874
>paying people 9$ an hour
>not a shithole

I can literally go get some random fucking job and make more than 90% of americans. I could just get any random fucking job and make 15-20 an hour with no experience, education or training.

>>41513869

Yeah, I think PA is just a really bad state for nursing since UPMC owns everything. 2 year RNs are the minority nationwide though, and the programs are being phased out as every major nursing organization is pushing for BSN entry, the same with DNP entry for APRNs.

>>41513917
cancuck...can you into cost of living? I live in Texas, we have no income tax here. We have cheap land, cheap everything. Please nigger.

>tfw male nursing student who does it/graphic design on the side

:^)

>>41511894
I agree with what OP is saying in Australia it is like this anyway.

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>literally the shitposting capital of the world
I hope we invent an engine that runs on fucking spider eggs and marsupial piss so we can invade you fuckers.

>>41513869

I guess I should add that in some areas of PA, you can rent a 2 bedroom house for $600/mo. So that is rather important.

>>41513853
http://www.healthcare-salaries.com/nursing/certified-nursing-assistant-salary

>Average US per hour at $11
>Canada ranges from $10 to $18 C$ which are worth 80 cents

what a 3rd world shithole Canada must be

>>41513917
The cost of living is likely higher where you live. People love arguing about how much they are paid, but it is completely dependent on where you live. Wages in Manhattan are much higher than those in Detroit for the same job, obviously the cost of living is significantly higher there though.

>>41513951
I can live off 10$ an hour here and that's minimum wage. Living with a roommate and making 15$ is a huge step up and anything over 20$ an hour in a place with two people is enough for you to go on a vacation a year and buy shit for your hobbies whenever you really feel like it, keep in mind I can literally go get a 20$ an hour job whenever as they are all over the place and some people who want to go work on the rigs can pull double that amount.

>>41512453
When a patient codes, who do you think grabs a cart and runs to the patient to start diagnosing and treating so the patient doesn't die? It's not the doctors.

>>41513881


Those things are legitimately known for virulent Chlamydia. What the fuck why would you let it do that, even for a joke pic.

Gross.

>>41514040
any Australian worth their salt is immune to koala cooties

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>>41511894
>tfw in 20 years 90% of doctors will be women
>tfw an incompetent woman could perform brain surgery on you one day

>>41513864
Every time I've gone to the hospital I googled shit for like the 3 hours on my phone while I was stuck in the lobby and was correct every single time.

But I'm sure if I told the doctor "hey I think I have this based on these symptoms and matching photographs." they doctor would be like "hurr durr let meee do the diagnosis sir" Then they'll excuse them selves to look shit up on google.

>>41514028
>I can literally go get a 20$ an hour job whenever as they are all over the place and some people who want to go work on the rigs can pull double that amount.
Okay? same here..

>>41511894
Hospital patients need more care than just surgery. You can't have fucking doctors doing menial tasks such as giving medicine or just watching over patients.

>>41514081
And yet you pay people with years of education 9$ an hour where as in Canada if you bust your ass actually getting an education you'll make good money unlike people in USA. It's a fucking joke that you retards actually pay nurses and qualified people with degrees barely more than minimum wage.

>>41514076
Doctors dont perform surgeries, surgeons do

>>41514079
I'm sure their malpractice insurance has a byline saying it's a-ok to let a patient diagnose himself and send them home

>>41514132
I was just implying that they could also be doing surgery on you one day.

>>41511894
I work at a hospital as a lab surf

Nurses are basically the point men between doctors and families and staff like me; they deal and coordinate a lot of shit.

Some positions are more useless than others, but although the ER always fucks up their orders I don't give them shit because they are busy as fuck getting shit done.

>>41514109
>And yet you pay people with years of education 9$ an hour
wowowow, I'm talking about CNA here.

refer to>>41513589

>It's a fucking joke that you retards actually pay nurses and qualified people with degrees barely more than minimum wage.
Tell me about it, same story for EMT or anyone in the medical field that isn't a doctor

>>41514161
Nah. Being a surgeon is like being an engineer. And women cant engineer.

>>41514134
Im just saying, looking shit up in a database isn't hard. I'm sure their general procedure is something like

>Look shit up
>Whatever matches best and is most common
>Treat based on severity
>Tell them come back if that don't work
>Assume it's whatever matched that was rarer
>Treat for that
>If that don't work, call a better doctor so you don't get sued

Every doctor I've ever known made it sound like nurses were there for the menial, repetitive grunt work and any small procedure that won't occupy a physician or specialist.

>>41514195

EMTs and Paramedics get shafted.

I was an EMT growing up, and I really love pre-hospital medicine. It is hard to make a good living in EMS. It would be great if the US has Pre-hospital Practitioners like in some Euro countries, who could diagnose and act independently...something that could be done as a career.

>>41514222
that's exactly what it is. Spider bite is a legitimate, billable assessment/diagnosis for "I don't fucking know"

>>41514236
>nurses
CNA,LPN,RN,APRN,NP,NA
There's a lot of different types bro.

>>41514313
like anyone outside of the medical field gives a shit

>>41514259
What exactly is an EMT responding to that needs an immediate diagnosis beyond heroin OD's and MI's?

>>41511894
I can 100% confirm, I live with 3 girls in a full 4 year nursing program. They are all dumb as a bag of rocks and don't do anything besides sit around all day watching tv shows.

>>41514337
Well you should, one makes 9 dollars an hour the other has a salary of 140k

>>41514259
Only if you still get them to the hospital.

Europe has an ems system where you are not allowed to bring a patient to the hospital unless you get them stable in the field first.

Really sucks for people who have injuries/illness that can ONLY be treated on a hospital, like Princess Diana. If they would have just taken her straight to the hospital, she could have lived.

>>41514355
and I'm sure no inference could made as to which type of nurse was referred to as
>there for the menial, repetitive grunt work and any small procedure that won't occupy a physician or specialist

>>41513436
CNAs empty bedpans

>>41514373
Yeah, it annoys me when people associate someone who's an RN to some one who is a CNA though.

To someone outside the medical field they're the same.

>>41514236

There is a lot of infighting and animosity lately between the two groups too because of the rise of NPs especially. Family Medicine MD/DOs and NPs are having turf wars because studies seem to be trending in such a way that NPs, PAs, and Family Docs are having equal outcomes for patients.

Now this is a touchy subject because MDs generally are considered the top level providers, however it might just be that they are truly over-trained for family medicine. Obviously, for a neurosurgeon, one would want a physician. Family medicine however, is not nearly the same level of complexity, and with more and more referrals to specialists family medicine's specificity is decreasing, and PAs and NPs are encroaching. This is only made worse for MDs when the difference in pay is 100k vs. 150k.

Also, MD/DOs are very mad that all APRNs are going to be DNPs and they don't want nurses using the Dr. title, which is already used by pharmacists, psychologists, PTs, etc.

>>41514342

I'm thinking about this sort of in reverse. Having a practitioner that could do wellness checks, scripts, and such would be beneficial as preventive medicine. Not only that, but having someone with the authority to cancel ambulance activity for the 82 year old nursing home patient who only wants to talk would help maintain the system. Paramedics don't have the ability to diagnose, so they end up utilizing resources many times that are completely unnecessary.

>>41514480
I just wanted to thank you for your post. Very informing

>>41514346
>and don't do anything besides sit around all day watching tv shows.

Isn't that like 90% of America right there, though?

>>41514733

No problem. The medical field is full of politics like everything else. It makes for some fascinating reading.

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actual doc here (Internist, tail-end of residency).

So much fucking salt and misinfo here (with a sprinkling of actual truth here and there), reminds me that this site is full of edgy teenagers sharing the same old BS w/ one another--it depresses me that this is the only place I can indulge my racism...I need to find a better class of racist....

Anyway, as some people have already intimated, Physicians & nurses play different, but complementary roles in medicine.

It is best to think of doctors & nurses as officers and enlisted men. The officer (doc) has the experience, knowledge of the big picture, tactics and strategies. The enlisted men (nurses) have their own training and tactics.

Now a troop of enlisted men can attack and retreat on their own, but without a thorough knowledge of the enemy & its capabilities, the larger strategies, and the most up to date information, they will be beaten by all but the most common and dismal of opponents.

The officers, while they have the knowledge and strategy, and can do all the exercises of the enlisted men, are far fewer, and it would be a waste of the officers skills to have them do both the cumbersome job of the officer and the enlisted men, and they too would fail when faced with a determined opponent.

However, a competent officer w/ a small seasoned troop of enlisted men have both the strategy & knowledge and the numbers and skills capable of turning back a truly fearsome opponent; and a well-ordered troop has a lot of back and forth between the men and the officer which leads to greater battle effectiveness, and in pitched battles (eg. codes), both will get in on the mix.

It would be a waste of my time for me to do all the surveillance and day-to-day care of the 10-20 patients I take care of daily, nor do nurses have the scientific knowledge and skills necessary to properly diagnoses and develop a treatment plan for a patient, and keep up with all the new protocols coming out. Together, however...

I plan on becoming a nurse and I'm fully aware all I'll be doing is the doc's busy work so he can do that actual medical work. There's only so many people with the knowledge of a doctor, he's got to be free to make as many diagnosis as possible, while the nurses just administer the treatment. There's no shame in that, and if you're a nurse and think otherwise, you've got a large, delusional ego.

>>41513589

>Nurse anesthetist perform anesthesia in surgeries and procedures.
>Pay: $140k (Actually can make more than family MDs)

This is literally the reason why American healthcare costs so much. Specialization gets you way more dosh than being a primary care provider, but primary care is where you defuse the health problems.

>>41511894
I lost all faith in my nursing staff when one called me at 2 am for orders to fix a leaking IV bad.

A fucking leaking IV bag.

Called me at 2 am.

To ask if she could fix a leaking IV bag.

FUCK the stupid shit I get calls for drives me insane but that one was the straw. Yelled at her on the phone, "You have my blessing that if at any time something malfunctions and you know it's malfunctioning and you know how to fix it, you can fucking fix it."

I don't work with her anymore.

Nursing is serious fucking business m8. They have to learn a shitload of stuff. I would hate doing what they do.

>>41514981
>one called me at 2 am for orders to fix a leaking IV bad.
Is it really that bad? You would assume they would bounce that off the head nurse/charge nurse..

>>41511894
>i don't know anything about medicine, hospitals, or budgets
Thanks for clearing that up, OP.

>>41512833
Because they have expensive student loans to pay off.

>>41515047
It is that bad. Why the fuck should you be paid $70,000 a year if you feel you need to ask someone to fix something that is incredibly simple to fix?

Then you try asking a nurse to do something for you. Unless you constantly kiss nurses asses, they'll just blow you off. They can and will. You need to suck up to them big time, even more than your supervising physician.

Keep that in your mind when they call you in the middle of the night with a stupid question.

Why are typical nursing shifts 12 hours? Why not 8?

>>41514905
This is a pretty good post. I think a lot of people miss the fact that it is a team effort between the entire staff. Though, medicine suffers from a lot of ego driven personalities on nearly all ends.

>>41514946
>nurses just administer the treatment
A good nurse is not going to be simply administering Tx. You are going to be assessing, verifying, and staying aware. If a Pt. becomes pallid and drops b/p for instance, you are not just going to give something that can cause hypotension because you have orders, and you are liable for it if you do.

>>41514981
Were there standing orders?

>>41515152

Because nurses prefer working 3 12s per week for full time.

>>41515162
Of course there are standing orders for fixing a bag of saline.

>>41511894
And what have you done with your life?

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>>41515145
>they'll just blow you off
Figuratively or literally?

hmm.. reconsidering my career

>>41514949
Well no shit. If there's only a couple thousand people able to administer anesthesia for the tens of thousands of operations per year then of course they're going to be more valuable. Basic market economics right there.

And no, the reason healthcare is fucked is due to malpractice cases. If you go in with a sprained ankle and the doc knows it's a sprained ankle, he's still has to do an x-ray on the minuscule chance that there's a hairline fracture or something so he has proof on paper that it's just a sprain, can't get sued for malpractice, even though the 12 years of schooling and common sense tells him it's a sprained ankle. On the tiny off chance it is something slightly more serious, he gets sued for a mil, his malpractice insurance skyrockets, and possibly his job.

Many procedures and tests aren't necessary, and with all the excess demand, there is excess price.

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>>41515245
oh my~

>>41515214

Was it actually an RN that called you over a bag of saline, and not an LPN or NAP?

Seems very weird, outside of someone who was simply inexperienced, and also curious why the charge or supervising nurse wasn't contacted.

>>41515299
An RN that worked in that ED for faaar too long. She disappeared, didn't care to ask why.

I completely agree. It was very weird. And infuriating.

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>>41514480

The problem here is the assumption that doctors are over-trained for the specialties. Good Family-med docs (and admittedly they are fewer & fewer every year) need to be full physicians b/c their greater knowledge allow them to recognize serious underlying issues early on as well as to do the outpatient medical management and long-term health planning necessary to keep a patient alive and well as long as possible.

A patient can come in w/ a headache, and the nurse can prescribe a tylenol, but does she know the series of questions and tests need to ask to determine if the HA is a migraine, a cluster HA, tension HA, psuedo-tumor cerebri, an early sign of increase intra-cranial pressure, meningitis, a severe hypertensive episode, closed-angle glaucoma, syphilitic gumma, or any of hundreds of chronic or acute conditions that need to be screened for, and that HA is an early sign of. The answer is no, nurses, even the most talented NP's, are generally a slave to their experience, their written protocols and their very limited scientific training. An NP will almost always provide worse over-all care.

The problem is that decreasing re-imbursement has lead to family/primary care docs to see more and more patients to maintain a decent wage or just keep afloat--a doctors office w/ a nurse, receptionist, etc is a small private business w/ significant costs. This at the same time has lead many existing docs to be on auto-pilot and try to not to probe too much into symptoms, and, b/c of the unfavorable lifestyle this leads to, has lead to some of the least talented graduates going into this field. This is one of the main problems with family/primary care medicine today. At my clinic I can effectively see 10-15 patients in a 10-12 hour day, but the only docs I see making enough money to keep their business afloat and living situation that is above that of a residents (who truly get paid peanuts) is by seeing 40-50 pt's in the same time, or as many as 70-80

>>41515246

This is quite true. I remember being sent to a hematologist for having WBCs that were slightly elevated over the normal range for a few months.

That's the rub though. Most likely nothing, but on the very rare chance it ends up being like leukemia, there is a multi-million dollar payout for malpractice.

>>41515361

Is Emergency Medicine your field area?

>>41515419
>are generally a slave to their experience
Really..I mean a Physician right out of school isn't great either. Everyone is a slave to their experience. There are NPs out there who are well seasoned and provide better care than doctors just graduated

>>41515419
An office visit takes you an hour? Not even trying to be a condescending asshole, I'm genuinely serious.

>>41515419

Like I said, it is very contentious, and it is reasonable to think that there are confounding factors, however, the large sampling of outcomes have not seen a statistically significant difference between MDs, DOs, PAs, and NPs in the family practice setting.

I agree that it is highly likely that for certain situations a physician will pick up on something that a mid-level will not have the training to identify. On the larger scale, those rare instances, seem to mitigated by the higher average face-time and self-reported communication values of pts. with PAs/NPs.

Over-training may be a stretch, but in the past 10 years there has been an explosion of referrals to specialists, as even family providers are sending people with a couple pre-existing conditions to Internists.

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>>41515444

When I say physician, I mean board certified attending -- one who has finished med school (4 years) + residency (3 years for fam med) where all the kinks are worked out and has passed his specialty boards.

Yeah a doc fresh out of school is gonna be prone to a lot of mistakes and bad habits, that's why you have residency, where you are supervised very closely your first year, and with greater autonomy as you progress until you're capable of being an attending. At the same time you are always studying (A) to pass your boards & (B)know how to properly treat your patients.

A x3 year residency at ~60-80hr / week for 48 weeks is 9,000-11,000 hours of practice--even the mediocre get pretty proficient after that.

>>41515543
I like talking to pt's too much, which is why my pt's generally like me, but this is residency continuity clinic, so I'm not working for profit (and a third of them don't show up, w/o calling).

If I'm really efficient, I can probably due an interview, PEx & note in about 30-35 min, but it gets a bit wearing. I like to be thorough and to chat.

I'm kind of contributing to the issue by specializing myself (Hematology-Oncology)--there I can truly see 10-15 pt's a day and still live a decent lifestyle (eventually...after 3 years of fellowship...oh god, I'm so tired).

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Massive projection in this thread coming from people jealous that they didn't go for the ultimate bang-for-your-buck route of community college to ADN nursing.

- Little-to-no student loan debt incurred
- Only two years "wasted" in job training, for
- A job that pays better than any other competing 2-year degree and most bachelors and even many masters
- The best job security there ever will be, able to go just about wherever you want and get work, able to get all the overtime you want to the point where if you really wanted to no-life it and work 80 hour weeks you'll be rolling in the dough laughing while everyone else is miserable still paying off student loans and asking "what do you do to afford that car?"

And if you're a male, all the better to fill those quotas. They get paid even more than female nurses.

>>41516917
>And if you're a male, all the better to fill those quotas. They get paid even more than female nurses.
>[citation needed]

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>>41517157
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2013/02/25/male-nurses-make-more-money/

Countless articles like this one citing how men have easier times getting hired as nurses. Excuses given are filling quotas, and that men bring more solid leadership to what is otherwise a bunch of bickering bitches, they're a grounding force.

Just among a few of the reasons there are more and more male nurses popping up and making more money than the female ones. Hear that /pol/, it's time for you to wipe some fat negro ass for that Corvette

>>41512335
>Medical doctors do no real work (except surgeons and ER docs)

>They examine, diagnose, and perscribe medicine.

>>41517305
>http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2013/02/25/male-nurses-make-more-money/
Just I suspected, this falls into the same fallacies feminist use in every profession.

It boils down to, men working over-time more than women, and women taking time off work for children.

>>41517395

In comparison with the allied health professionals - nurses, PTA's, RadTech, Resp Therapists - they hardly do shit. They basically walk around the fucking hospital all day like an episode of entourage delegating any real work to PA's who delegate any real work to allied health professionals.

But that's the normal order of things. If you want to go to what is essential medical trade school (two year associates at community colleges) to be medical plumber, then you can't expect to have as much of a relaxed life.

- PTA: backbreaking pushing limbs around moving people around smelling their crevases that tend to be unwashed and little or no deodorant, stubborn fucks complaining "you can't make me do this" when you are trying to fill productivity quotas or lose your job
- Nurses: ass wiping because they never have enough CNA staff
- Resp. Ther: enjoy those blood gasses, getting fucking face-slimed by someone in the ER, intubating, smelling the most rancid fucking breath
- Rad Tech: the cushiest of them all pushing around a machine with a button all day, which is why this program is A.) backed up at every college with a waiting list and B.) conceding lower salaries and job opportunities.

>>41511894
Im a nurse getting my masters degree and you are fucking retarded. I cant wait till I start making 6 figures

>>41511894
>i want a M.D. to wipe my old stupid ass without complaining.
Good luck with that.

>>41511894
Why look, somehow an ago managed to get ahold of a computer! Since what it appears to have typed is English, we can assume that it hasn't started sniffing gasoline yet today. Run along little savage, and remember not to sleep in the middle of the highway again. That's how Ugg and Orr were killed, and your tribe can't lose anymore people

>>41515162
> I think a lot of people miss the fact that it is a team effort between the entire staff.
Yes this is true but the problem is that nurses think they can get rid of doctors and do everything themselves and politicians who are looking to cut costs tend to agree, you see the problem?

The real issue is the drop in health care standards that could get you fucking killed one day just because of cost cutting measures.

>>41513056
Person who actually works in theatre here, on break and happy to tell you you're a fucking idiot.

Unsure where OP getting information. Just trollin'?

Charge RN maid here.
Made 80K last year working nights, no OT, in New Mexico with the 43rd lowest income (41k per year) per capita in the country. I bought a 4 bed house for $135K in a new subdivision.

Dr's assistant? I talk to a Dr maybe a half dozen times a night, and see 20-30 patients on a busy tele unit.

>>41521578
there are grills on pol?

>>41521578
Have you ever dealt with a prolapsed anus? You're gonna have to now >>41521776

>>41521776
With the multitude of different nationalities on pol I'd be surprised if there were no grills

>>41512113
>The first person that will intervene in an emergency will be a nurse.
Depends on where you are. If a code blue is called you can bet your ass that several different people from different departments will show up. Respiratory is just one example.
>You shit your pants? Nurse comes and aids you.
No, the CNA does the shit work. It is literally the ass-wiping job.
>Tachycardia? Nurse!
And who will notice the Tachycardia? The ward secretary who is trained to notice what are bad sinus rhythms
>They deal with your bullshit and idiotic patients 24/7.
Again, no they don't. Nurses are the first to disappear when a patient needs to be moved to another part of the hospital for a study, be a sleep study or an MRI or anything that cannot be done in the patient's room.
>Typically, medical technicians (which is what they are) are more valuable to a patient than doctors. Doctors don't know anything past their experience and doctors are way more inexperienced than nurses.
Some truth to this. But it is not as cut and dry as you may think. You can be okay with a new doctor and an old nurse or an old doctor and a new nurse, but if you have both a new doctor and a new nurse, you will likely have a medical misadventure. The dr will likely write the prescription for a drug that is normally IM to go IV and the nurse will give it.

Nurses aren't all that.

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>>41521877

>>41521578
My bad per capita is 23k, household is 41k.

>>41521921
........how?

>>41521776
There are also male nurses mate.

>>41521776
not a grill.

>>41521877
Not yet. Plenty of prolapsed uteruses.

>>41521921
people stick stuff up their asses all the time

>>41512358
Nurses are the most vital in ER. They run triage and determine if you are sick enough to get seem immediately. Nurses make all the initial decisions at the ER.

>>41522004
Some buttplugs have bases that aren't designed well. They don't provide the space to provide enough of a grip to be pulled out normally.

Notice how the base is very narrow in comparison to the rest of the dildo. This was probably a contributing factor.

"Shit I can't get it out. Tyrone, push it all the way in so I can at least drive to the ER."

>>41522017
We're not all American.

>>41513526
Maybe your an unlikable faggot

>>41522098
I work in a city and I've seen this happen at least 10 times over the past year

>>41512113

Oh boohoo, you faggots get paid a lot. Deal with it.

>buying the cheapest buttplug in the shop

i really hope you don't do this

>>41511894
Nursing is like craftsmanship for women, aka a worthy field to enter. It is much better to be a nurse than being/having a
>bureaucrat
>degree in sociology, history, psychology or similar BS
>economist
>lawyer
>neet
>government worker
>MCdonalds employee
Why? Because you are doing a task that people badly need. Who cares if there are only idiots entering the field, I'd rather have one dumb nurse than ten women's studies majors

>>41511894
>real degree
Nursing is a real degree. If its not then what is?

When my wife had our baby, most of the nurses were worthless. The only decent one was a younger Hispanic girl who had some passion for helping people.

The nigger nurses were entitled and lazy and then white nurses were apathetic andnlazy.

>>41511894

>Nurses are not doctors. They are below doctors and, therefore, assistants.
>This one time, I saw a nurse take out the trash. They're basically custodians.

Here we go again with this 'if you're not first, you're last' mentality that pervades /pol/. Even if they are to be considered doctor's assistants, they deserve all the commendation they receive for dealing with figurative and literal shit on a day by day basis. There have been threads like this before about EMTs. No, they're far from the highest level of medicine, but they are there to ensure you're patched up long enough to even make it to a doctor.

Oh, wait. It's Australia. Nevermind.

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>be immigrant(had a choice between nursing/business/hotels/etc although nursing and programming is the most popular)
>move to england as a waiter with a hotelier degree
>get free housing, internet and food and 170hour sched gives me a monthly savings of 1000£
>if I chose nursing I coulda had an even easier job and have a monthly savings of 1500-1700£ with a 200ish hour sched

Fuck man, why didn't I just fuckin go nursing in college?

Literally just do what some guys tell you to and arrange stuff and get a bretty big salary out of it.

>>41511894
you are thinking of AINs and enrolled nurses. both of which you go to tafe for.
>medical degree
>tafe
registered nurses know as much as the student surgeons.

you're talking about three different jobs bro.

>>41514222
I have had doctors look shit up on wikipedia infront of me.
thank fuck australian medicine is free. the only reason I ever go to a doctor is for a script for controlled substances like antibiotics herp. or an STD screen every so often. GPs are the clerks of the medical field, not doctors.

>>41515214
a bag of saline costs 2$ in australia. why would you attempt to patch that shit?
just get another bag. an extra liter of saline wont kill you.

>>41512113
>Doctors don't know anything past their experience and doctors are way more inexperienced than nurses
>No doctors work at the ER

>>41513783
Cops are lucky to make 60k a year after 20 years in the force.

>>41511894
Nurse can be one of the mist difficult jobs on the planet, fuck off nigger.

>>41524336
GPs have a very difficult and important job in the medical field and it will only grow in importance as the reimbursement structure changes.

They are the gatekeepers. They make the initial diagnosis, refer you to specialists, order procedures or medicine, and do preventative screening.

It's a shame they aren't paid more. They are vitally important.