What I mean by that is a fascism which is optimized for space development instead of military production and waging war.
We absolutely need, as a species, to become multiplanetary. Sooner rather than later. Asteroids are not fantasy. One exploded over Russia not so long ago. Plagues, nuclear war, you name it, we can easily destroy ourselves.
The only way this can happen is massive government support. SpaceX and other private space companies get all of their funding for manned spaceflight from the government. They are not an alternative to NASA. NASA has always subcontracted to private companies like Boeing and Lockheed Martin, the ONLY difference is SpaceX doesn't get cost plus contracts. That's a vital, fantastic idea but the fact remains, private industry by itself cannot and never will bootstrap us into space.
I may be alone here in viewing fascism as having a finite lifespan. Communism lived long enough for us to see it peter out and die. Naziism did not, but had it survived that long the same would have occurred. It was not an economically coherent model.
But that doesn't matter. It would only need to last long enough to get a self sufficient colony up and running on Mars, and an industrial base/shipyard on the Moon. After that, it can go ahead and collapse on Earth, it has served its purpose.
Nope can't do.
Unless you can simulate artificial gravity or some medical implement to compensate for the effects of exposure to radiation and loss of gravity, those in space are going to die a slow horrible death.
>Unless you can simulate artificial gravity
Built using ISS technology
My thoughts? It's all shit. Humanity is decadent and technology can't solve any of our real problems. Yeah, you heard me. It's all just entertainment devices and useless gadgets, and if you'd take a step back and see this colorful clusterfuck objectivly you'd just refuse it.
I see this kind of wishful thinking on the net all the time. Are you American?
And what would we do if we had unlimited resources anyway? Capitalism 5.0++ jacked up to 11, all day every day.
The race of the New Men. They will replace the population of current humans, the modification will be injected into ALL pregnant females by mandatory laws insuring perfect children, who are above competent and are highly socially conscious from the moment of their adolescence.
It will cause a sense of unity and community within mankind.
For without unity we are but scum on this world, but with unity and sight on the expansive galaxy, we will be like gods.
Imagine a Mcdonalds on Zeta Cluster!
Imagine our movies and music subverting other cultures to see the egotistical gods that we are!
We just have to make the leap, we will seal out futures as the one thing that will bring a ounce of life to this vast expanse of shiny stars in the dark that we call universe.
Only humanity is worth anything.
Death to the naysayers, and it is the opinion of this human that all Greys must be destroyed!
Id propose that its not rushing people into space that should be the first priority.
Rather our priority should be rushing the optimisation of robotics and artificial intelligence and all the physical and mechanical aspects that enhance robotics so that robots can pave the way for our colonisation.
>see this objectively
>refers to vague decadence concept
>discussion centering around heightening humanity with technology, which is fairly easy to achieve, your ideas are hallucinogenic drugs manufactured by the human mind by comparison
>people like you are the real problem
>btw not even american
Death to the Reptilians!
Can you imagine if we went out into space, and greys and reptilians do exist? Nordics too.
They all tell us that we were some slave race project they abandoned because they found a better alternative or simply forgot that we existed?
Can you imagine the Human ambassadors bringing the news home that we are a bastard race of misbegotten slaves.
Can you imagine the sheer unacceptability of that.
Can you imagine the rage in mankind?
Can you imagine the war and ruin that mankind will plan?
Can you imagine, a galaxy cleaned of all scum aliens and humanity triumphant!
if we ever find that out to be the case, then the stone that was cast out will become the cornerstone. for earth! humanity over all. hail the final victory and our species manifest destiny
this anon gives op the though of approval. Space fascism seems like a good idea.
But it is just a question to how much you would be willing to help earth.
Good economic systems can help space fascism and economic system are bound to a host of many, many other issues.
You have to start from the ground up to increase support for this (so that people dont rebel), you have to make societies that cherish scientific thought and do more life than being suicidal bombing pedos (slimes).
Ideally, you could probably achieve space Fascism with racial purges and/or nukings of bad countries in a couple of months.
Literally does not matter why we establish self sufficient offworld colonies. Those reasons will be forgotten in 500 years. All that matters is that it gets done, so that 500 years from now we're not still sitting on our asses asking why there are no offworld colonies yet, or worse, picking through the polluted hellscape of a ruined Earth as one of the last few living humans.
Do not be married to the idea of an eternal cause or movement, they are ephemeral. Means to an end. In this case to force the matter of making humanity a multiplanet species in the near term.
>Ideally, you could probably achieve space Fascism with racial purges and/or nukings of bad countries in a couple of months.
No, because this would unite the world against you, and no fascism remotely based on race will ever again be allowed to flourish. It will be strangled in the crib by the now much more powerful opposing interests.
The ONLY THING that matters here is establishing self sufficient offworld colonies. You can pursue your racial holy war after that's done. If anything, nationalism is no longer possible on a single planet due to globalization, the internet, fast intercontinental travel and so on. But with multiple planets it once again becomes feasible.
If anything we should embrace, at least superficially, whatever multicultural bullshit will attract the most popular support. Give the people what they want. It doesn't matter if it's poison. If it results in self sufficient offworld colonies, you will have a largely empty new frontier the government cannot reach in a hurry to try out whatever sort of murderous ethnonationalist movement you have in mind. But that is the cart, not the horse. We must first establish those colonies.
i call for unification war. once one country homogenizes large parts of earth, the real work can begin. complete hegemony of the space above earth will secure said superpower's rule, from there to enact gradual anschluss via EU style union or direct political annexation, with thr ruler owning space and large parts of earth all must eventually fall to said power.massive police state and central education/propaganda bureau might be needed to curb rebels within empire, a small skirmish with hostile aliens would really speed up the process of forming a united earth patriotism
If they are as incompetent, without exception, as you believe then the colony will depopulate itself in short order. What's important is to get that colony built in the first place.
We really must be single minded about this. Distractions are where we are most likely to go wrong. All focus on getting those colonies built and operational.
Again I tell you it is technology that we need not production
If anything we need a boost in research to develop our production capabilities then with what scarce resources we have we can develop an efficient means to reach space and since we invested in research first we will have the means to do so. But if we rush now we may well torpedo our chances of success or spend whatever political will and capital there may be in establishing space colonies on a failed venture.
We are going to do this right and we are going to do this with the highest possibility of success.
true, but humans need a tangible cause to unite them to action, the leadership must always remain pragmatic, but because we are dealings with humans idealism is a must. besides, in 500 years after the first few colonies, the manifest destiny will still give the species purpose and direction.otherwise future generations may query, why did we even get off our asses to create these off-world colonies. without a defined goal human action will be half-hearted and full of doubt.
Robotic surveyor ships find suitable planets?seed ships sent to terraform biosphere?base building robots sent to prepare planet for habitation?breeder ships carrying human embryos land? eggs grown in artificial wombs in special facilities in base ? androids nurture and teach first generation of colonist. ? bingobangobongo earth 2.0 dunski
No you fool robotics to build us larger more powerful space ships and stations
Robots will harvest the necessary resources
Robots will construct and assemble the necessary parts
Robots with our oversight will maintain and optimise themselves.
And its already happening we use robotics to weld our super ships we use robotics to scout. What we need is better algorithms and better material engineering to withstand the wear and tear of space.
And if space is as plentiful as we speculate then it is prudent to risk robots than put humans in the front line.
>otherwise future generations may query, why did we even get off our asses to create these off-world colonies
It won't matter by then. The colonies won't somehow vanish if people start asking that. Once we've invested in that much expensive infrastructure, it creates its own market. See: Salt Lake City. Built for bullshit reasons, still in existence because once they built a city, a market was created. People lived there and generated wealth, so businesses moved there to meet their needs and so on and so forth.
Space faring is not something the people in control want. We can't even control the seas now.
First of all because space is fucking huge and it would become a lawless shithole in no time.
Basically anything you think it's wrong could be done without restrictions, especially if we manage to make god-tier individual spaceships.
>Robots will harvest the necessary resources
>Robots will construct and assemble the necessary parts
>Robots with our oversight will maintain and optimise themselves.
You've designed humans out of the picture. When robots can do all of this there will be no need for humans to exist. If they can self copy from space resources and improve themselves they will eventually grow beyond our control and begin pursuing their own interests instead of doing shit for us.
No need, there are already bacteria species who can literally live in barrels of plutonium, in direct contact with the radioactive particles. They basically grow hardened nuclear armor to protect their DNA from radiation damage. Space eugenics (extensive genetic improvement) solves the radiation problem too. After some gene splicing with those bacteria, and a few months for the bodies cells to fully replace themselves, you could bathe in direct proximity to the nuclear rods and be none the worse off.
I said with our oversight.
Which means the plan is for them to serve us, indefinitely.
And all of these technologies are an alternative path to exploiting the resources of the universe for colonisation.
Its safe and its efficient and unless you're China I dont think we can afford to send hordes of peasants into space with equipment worth billions of dollars to see if something will work.
>Space eugenics (extensive genetic improvement)
You are using a word which specifically means the slow, inefficient process of selective breeding (aka animal husbandry) to refer to genetic engineering. Which is called genetic engineering, not eugenics. Different words, different meanings. Stop calling it eugenics.
Nah Id say we coat the ship with space bacteria and let them shield us from the radiation. Or harness their dna structure to design a material that absorbs/deflects the radiation.
>I said with our oversight.
Oh, well that fixes everything
>Which means the plan is for them to serve us, indefinitely.
Your plan is to create something in all ways superior to us and hope we can keep it shackled forever. You immense retard.
Indeed, locate,explore, conquer, subject, eradicate, replace and seed.
Locate all life sustainable, terraform-able or resource rich planet.
Explore the said worlds and define its importance to the Cause(whatever that maybe)
Conquer the world if it has fauna that may rebel at our destiny, the more intelligent the fauna, the more justified the conquest as they are a hurdle to the manifest destiny.
Subject the existing flora and fauna to our research and experiments to better adapt ourselves and evolve.
Eradicate any life form that threatens human dominance on said planet.
Replace the lost with our own designed local fauna and a large group of colonists.
This will ensure human dominion. All actions are for each other and the greater achievements of mankind. Breaking the ways may lead to the slide into the Old Cycle of bitter inner hatred and war, the only rational choice is to outlet the hate onto duties and actions, to control the violence of action with rationale of purpose.
Destruction and xenocide is a viable ideal for the expansion and dominion of mankind and this is justified by the fact that if it were not them, then we woult prey on ourselves.
We are the scourge of the galaxy and the Heirs to its throne.
From Old Terra we hail! Numerous and Belligerent! Death to those who oppose the Cause, even if he be Man.
Yup, we are definitely the psycho race every alien is gonna be scared of.
A space faring version of the old Mongols, except we in it for the long run and large scale population removal will be an artform.
Imagine an artificial kid, slighly dumber than you but eternally young, eternally learning and with no limits of memory.
now imagine it's 10 000 years old.
Nigga can fuck you up once some sense grows into it.
I said improve artificial intelligence I did not say we need full blown artificial intelligence.
We need algorithms that give them enough power to adapt enough to fully exploit there mechanical functions. Right now we have this shitty method of top down commands. Highly inefficient and extremely time consuming.
Your fear of "rogue" AIs demonstrates your lack of faith in the power of humanity.
We will survive because we are worthy of surviving and if we fail then so be it.
robots will form the lower slave class for humanity, whereas humans will be encouraged to invest in an education and get an intellectually trying job, such as an engineer, scientist, bureaucrat,businessman etc. humans will be free to pursue the life of intellectual and scientific discovery and thought while robots labor for us. because they are slave units, robots intelligence will be either limited to one only sphere of knowledge, so while they can calculate how to best do their job with max. efficiency they will have zero IQ in any field outside of their specially designated job. robo-uprising solved. the real worry is humans growing to pity slave class robots, and trying to 'free' them.a robo version of PETA if u will. therefore laws which ban robots from possessing faces that are to humas or else attempt to replicate human emotion, which might cause humans to care and feel attachment to droids must be enforced
>I said improve artificial intelligence I did not say we need full blown artificial intelligence.
If it can self copy, it will occasionally make mistakes (radiation, micrometeorites, etc) this means it can evolve.
>Your fear of "rogue" AIs demonstrates your lack of faith in the power of humanity.
You're about 17 aren't you.
>We will survive because we are worthy of surviving and if we fail then so be it.
Yup, you are.
There's no place to go, the distances we need to travel for interstellar colonisation are so vast. It will never happen. We MIGHT colonise Mars, maybe. Probably not.
Face it OP, you're stuck here on this rock with the rest of us. Stuck. Here. All of us. On this tiny little blob of matter clawing at each other for the dwindling resources we're using up at an ever increasing rate. But... But... Guess what?
It's not real. This isn't real, in the most literal sense. In fact, even your sense of identity isn't real, just an illusion. There is only consciousness, singular, vast, timeless. We are it and it is us. You feel that deja vu? This has happened over and over. I'm writing this message you're reading it. Next time it will be the reverse.
See you after the crunch... (Again and again and again...)
No it cannot "self copy"
We make robots that manufacture. We're going to feed it schematics to make scouting robots. That manufacturing robot doesnt need an AI more intelligent than how to optimise its production cycle. It doesnt need to know how to assemble a battleship and its purpose it only needs to know the design of a part of the battleship.
We're not going to "integrate" them into a massive network we're not as retarded as Apple users.
>Oh, I see. A pop culture reference. Well done.
Fine faggot, if I'm not allowed some stupid jokes once in a while, they're called Von Newman probes. For my masters I created a Matlab Simulink model meant to gauge the difficulty/feasibility of making this shit IRL. Unless we make some serious break-through in strong AI it's not doable for the foreseen future. Have a gay wjewpedia link to get you started.
If you make a factory that makes general purpose robots (humanoids for example) those robots can maintain the factory and one another, using the parts it produces. Whether or not you intend to make something that can self replicate, at the level of sophistication you describe it becomes possible almost no matter what you do.
Neumann. And if you know that much, you understand why creating them is a bad idea if you want human beings to remain relevant/in control of their destiny/alive in the long term.
fair point on mutation, while i fully support nano-technology and robotics that is a minor issue. replication will have to be handled carefully. engineer nano-factory, a special and rare nano-bot, to purge all defective units of nano-bots it produces. individual bots will not be allowed to replicate. also have back up EMP & computer-style virus weapons, as well as specially designed ant-nano combat nano bots as back up to genocide them if the unlikely circumstance of nano-plague
a better picture would be nazi Germany,rome or the modern US, or even ancient china. civilized and very advanced, with big empire and not afraid to fight. i personally would prefer pax imperialis, alien species can live in system confined 'homelands' free to practice culture, but must cooperate with human space imperium on basic political matters, with our no1. power status as immutable, due to our huge pop. and land size, which we would use generate and maintain a large stanidng army. under human hegemony all species can live harmoniously on their own little worlds, with humanity as the father-emperor of the galaxy's denizens.
>And if you know that much, you understand why creating them is a bad idea if you want human beings to remain relevant/in control of their destiny/alive in the long term.
Yeah, I've done my reading on the subject, but that's why you make them inherrently self limiting. I'm kinda drunk so I really don't want to get into to much of a chat on the whole implications deal, besides who says humanity was not meant to be replaced by our own creations/children
We need robots to perform functions not learn.
Therein lies your problem you have assumed we need them to learn we don't we teach them what they need to know.
We can have other processes who's function is to recognise patterns and the most efficient patterns. It doesnt need to know what and why those parts need to be optimised.
And that is why my initial proposition is to emphasise research so that our learning is sufficient to develop AI that is beneficial to us.
There is no "handling it carefully". The development of self replicating intelligent machines is why the universe appears silent. Biological intelligence is always destroyed by it, and a fleet of planetary deconstructors has no reason to warn us it's coming.
>but that's why you make them inherrently self limiting
They don't stay that way.
>besides who says humanity was not meant to be replaced by our own creations/children
That is my position too. I was replying to someone who didn't want it to happen and trying to make him understand that it was an unavoidable outcome if we proceed that far technologically.
i don't see the problem here, u limit their intelligence to one sphere of operation, with no ability to understand anything outside one narrow field. doesn't matter is they have the brains of 10 humans if all they can literally do is calculus and equations work then they have 0 threat capability. they would need a learning conscious mind with a breadth of knowledge to threaten humans, we would simply deny them this gift.
>We need robots to perform functions not learn.
Biological life did not start out intelligent. It just started as a chemical reaction that made copies of itself, then evolved intelligence.
We will not have to frontload machine life with intelligence. It will evolve its own.
>Not knowing of Generation ships.
>Not thinking the possibility of wormhole based travel.
>Believing in the Big Crunch of all things.
>Being this much of a pleb.
>See you after the crunch... (Again and again and again...)
Nope, WMAP confirmed open geometry of the universe which means no big crunch.
Amend your views accordingly.
a most macabre thought indeed, but we cannot limit ourselves because of a potential horror which might not even exist. in any case humans have created a huge amount of robo-uprising and the like literature, there is at least a chance with clever and cautious planning to avoid the potential worst. i won't believe in the fatalism of sentient life to destruction or folly, though i will admit its a treacherous path and it could happen, won't stop me or humanity from dreaming or trying to progress. if we don't use nano-tech than any other race with nano-tech can rape us in war and the like and enslave/exterminate us. so we have no real choice as such
>they would need a learning conscious mind with a breadth of knowledge to threaten humans
They will also need a learning 'mind' to navigate the asteroid belt (or Kuiper belt or Ort Cloud), set up shop, identify ores and mineral, plan a refinment/production schedule..etc.etc. There are just to many variables for a combination of expert systems and hardwired response to handle.
a fair point, but the thing is with life like us there was no-one supervising us to eliminate evolutionary progress, which advanced at a snails's pace over millions of years. if they even slightly stepped out of line the offending nano's would be purged, so no real worries. it would take them millions of years to copy life, ample time to kill aberrant bots.
You can't wrap your brain around this can you
Yes, robots are as simple as you say
So was the very first chemical replicator. It had no shred of intelligence. All it could do is copy itself. Yet here we are.
Evolution acts on anything that can copy itself with occasional mistakes. It does not have to be biochemical.
Exactly it needs complexity
We dont need it to have that kind of complexity nor that functionality.
We divide the functions keep them isolated and they will be none the wiser.
a narrow mind regulated to one field of knowledge, they can be Einstein 2.0 in astronomy,but all they will ever know is how gravity wells affect the movement of interstellar objects and how radiation effects various things and other trivia related to the topic. it doesn't have the intelligence or independent mind to think about the abstract such as freedom, love and revenge.
>if they even slightly stepped out of line the offending nano's would be purged
If you could get 'em all reliably. I'm imagining we'd lose track of some, they would wind up on some remote asteroid and we wouldn't know about it until their intelligent descendants made themselves known.
>not building a glorious ringworld for the white race to live on
planets are for fucking plebs, leave the planets to the niggers. If you build it out of carbon nanotubes you could build a ringworld that's 10,000 km in diameter, and there would be more than enough room to comfortably fit a billion people. We don't even need to bring women along with us, we can just have sexbot waifus and artificial wombs instead
>yet here we are
Yes assuming we as a human species has not figured out a way to evolve ourselves into something superior in that space of time sure by all means.
On the other hand the absence of mechanical computerised machines demonstrates my point that mechanical evolution is to date impossible.
And as I have already said replication is not uncontrolled it is in a controlled environment with specific restrictions and conditions in place.
In natural evolution there is no restriction there is no oversight there is no controls at all save only that which nature bothers to implement.
Hardly an apt comparison at all.
>it doesn't have the intelligence or independent mind to think about the abstract such as freedom, love and revenge
I wasn't suggesting that (it's debatable if that's even possible to program). A problem could arise though if the machines one track mind pushes forward with it's goals at the expense of humanity, even if it doen't 'mean' it (as in 2001 Space Odyssey) , but I guess that's what a kill switch is for.
>On the other hand the absence of mechanical computerised machines demonstrates my point that mechanical evolution is to date impossible.
What do you mean, the absence of robots? Robots are plentiful. If you mean the absence of self copying robots it's simply because we've not yet built one.
ok, but it would still take the bots a few million years to pick their shit up. ample time to find them, even if they become a small eco-system, we could just purge like its hot in its infancy.unless our species was heavily distracted for whatever reason i don't think it would become a worst case scenario u envision. apart from only allowing special units to produce nano-bots as opposed to the rank and file being able to replicate themselves, the easiest solution would be to limit replication abilities to artificial compounds and elements we devise, meta materials which are not in nature, so they would never build independently of us as we would need to give them a supply of artificially configured molecules, so if they got lost in the wind they would have no building capacity as they lack the materials to build themselves
No you argue evolution has brought us here.
By your reasoning evolution should have given us artificial robots by now. But it has not so clearly either evolution is incorrect or you are exaggerating.
I do not discount the possibility that there is a race of sentient replicating machines out there in the universe but for now that seems as likely as your hypothesis that machines will become aware and self replicating by our hand.
>If you mean the absence of self copying robots it's simply because we've not yet built one
I would bet it's easier to start with a small swarm of specialized robots (one for mining, one for locating proper raw materials, one for fabrication etc), together they could produce another copy of any one of the swarm. This approach might work better than trying to stuff all the functionality into one box
Good idea but none of this makes sense until humanity is united by Islam.
>Greys laughing at us because there isn't even a sole world religion
>being the Klingons of this sector.
Inb4 "but but my burgers" and "not even American but BURGER!"
ah i see, however that is somewhat different i'm sure you'll agree. if they'e being unwittingly retarded we could juts destroy them, i doubt their sheer stupidity would lead to complete human extinction, as if we wouldn't put them down
Look up Mosleys works and you will understand.
It's emphasis on division of power while still permitting the government to act quickly and decisively and delegation of authority to those "on the ground" are ideal for this.
The difference between NASA and SpaceX is those at NASA exist to drag their feet and milk things to keep the good life gravy train going and stretch it out into the foreseeable future while Elon Musk is burning bridges from "ruining a good thing" by cutting out the fat & expediting things because he wants to get to mars himself before he's too old. In short, the difference is priority.
Actually NASA's main problem right now is a lack of political will.
They've got shit they want to do but the US government won't approve or finance it.
Most of the tech Musk is using is stuff that was publicly released by NASA. The majority of his engineers used to work for NASA or were trained in programs supported by NASA.
Most of the tech Musk is using is stuff that was publicly released by NASA. The majority of his engineers used to work for NASA or were trained in programs supported by NASA.
I don't know where you got this idea, he gets his engineers straight out of college at slave wage rates, massively overworks them, fires them shortly after, then hires a new crop, rinse, lather, repeat.
>Ringworlds would have no harvestable resources
That's why you dump a 10 km deep layer of mineral/metals rich regolith down before you make your oceans, lakes etc. Boom, a ring shaped earth. The Ringworld series (larry Niven) takes this to the extreme with a 600 million mile (circumference) ringworld.
Generally NASA is pushing the technological envelope. They're doing things that have never been done. So they have to develop everything from the basic underlying tech level and up.
They also have to go through all possible means of doing it just to make sure they don't miss an obvious easy route.
Don't forget they briefly considered the construction of a space gun back during the moon race and even built a working scale model to test the idea.
>Generally NASA is pushing the technological envelope. They're doing things that have never been done. So they have to develop everything from the basic underlying tech level and up.
Thanks for sales pitch mr NASA pr, but spacex will and is doing what you do for a tenth of the cost, making the NASA justification as hollow as a hollywood starlet's vagina.
>you will never defend earth from disgusting xenos in your lifetime
I'll believe you when SpaceX establishes a Mars colony or actually sends someone to Mars.
Hell at this point I'd settle for them sending someone to the Moon. But China or Russia will be there first.
>I'll believe you when SpaceX establishes a Mars colony or actually sends someone to Mars.
It's THE point of SpaceX, to get its creator to Mars. One wonders if he gives a shit what happens back on Earth after he achieves his goal, would explain him burning bridges and burning the candle at both ends for everyone involved, use everything and everybody up as fast possible to get it done, regardless that it leaves a wake of ruin.
If you're going mine it up, fly it into space, dump it, then remine it, refine it, and use it.
You might as well have just mined it up, refined it there, took what you need and sorted it into storage on the station to begin with.
The space program is one big hoax.
Attention earthlings: your heart and brain operate at the same frequency as the earths magnetic field; your energetic field and it's energetic field are linked. You cannot leave this planet, and you live in an escapist fantasy.