Official Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 thread

Ukraine’s self-defense forces have recovered eight of the 12 recording devices from the Malaysian plane at the crash site, said forces member Igor Girkin, as cited by AP.

Earlier, Girkin said that the Donetsk self-defense forces won’t interfere with the investigation into the crash of the airplane.

TIME Magazine:

At the end of June, the Russian state media had congratulated the rebels on their latest military acquisition – a set of Russian-made BUK missile launchers seized from a Ukrainian air force base. “The Donetsk resistance fighters have captured an anti-aircraft military station,” declared the Kremlin’s main television network Vesti, which has been cheering on the rebel fighters since the war in eastern Ukraine began this spring. “The skies above Donetsk will now be protected by the BUK surface-to-air missile complex,” said the headline on the channel’s website.

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Experts from Interpol will identify the bodies of the passengers of the crashed Malaysian plane, reported the press service of Ukraine’s Interior Ministry.

The negotiations on sending the Interpol specialists to the site of the crashed plane were held between the country’s Interior Minister Arsen Avakov and Ronald Noble, the secretary-general of Interpol.

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Malaysian Airlines had issued a letter of condolences, detailing the death toll of the incident.

298 Casualties confirmed, 41 identities unknown as of this moment.

REMINDER:SBU intercepts phone conversations of separatists admitting downing a civilian plane

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5E8kDo2n6g

English version of the intercepted talk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbyZYgSXdyw

It must be stressed that none of the information supplied by the SBU has been verified; SBU has launched an investigation on the grounds of an alleged terrorist attack.

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On June 29, Russia's official news agency, ITAR-TASS, reported that pro-Russian separatists took a Buk system under their control. The report does not specify whether or not this was theft from the Russian or Ukrainian militaries, only that the rebels had seized control of the weapons system.

Specifications of the BUK system
Target engagement zone
altitude: 15 meters – 25 kilometers (50 feet - 15.5 miles)
range: 3–42 kilometers (1.9-26 miles)

The plane was flying at an altitude of 10,000 metres according to an aviation source cited by Interfax. If the information is confirmed by the black box data, it will indicate that a BUK system was indeed capable of downing the plane.

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WRECKAGE AND BODIES EXAMINATION (NSFW, GRAPHIC)
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0e5_1405626203

A Ukrainian miner says that at the time of the Malaysian Airlines disaster, he saw a white trail shoot into the sky from the ground, then heard an explosion and 20 seconds later saw smoke rising in the distance. Andrey Tarasenko said he and friend were walking home from work with a friend when it happened. "You know how you see a trail from a plane? It was the same, but it was a missile launched from the ground," Tarasenko said. Claims that the plane was shot down have not been confirmed by authorities.

IDENTITIES OF 4 BRITISH VICTIMS REVEALED:
Two Newcastle United fans travelling to see their team play in New Zealand are feared to be among the victims, PA reports. The fans' website NUFC.com reported that John Alder and Liam Sweeney were on board flight MH17, which was shot down over Ukraine yesterday.

A third Briton has been named as Glenn Thomas, a former BBC journalist who worked as a spokesman for the World Health Organisation.

A fourth British victim has named as Richard Mayne, a student from Leeds, according to the Independent.

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>>32565046
Transcript of the intercepted calls PART 1
Igor Bezler: We have just shot down a plane. Group Minera. It fell down beyond Yenakievo (Donetsk Oblast).
Vasili Geranin: Pilots. Where are the pilots?
IB: Gone to search for and photograph the plane. Its smoking.
VG: How many minutes ago?
IB: About 30 minutes ago.

SBU comment: After examining the site of the plane the terrorists come to the conclusion that they have shot down a civilian plane. The next part of the conversation took place about 40 minutes later.

“Major”: These are Chernukhin folks who shot down the plane. From the Chernukhin check point. Those cossacks who are based in Chernukhino.
“Grek”: Yes, Major.
"Major": The plane fell apart in the air. In the area of Petropavlovskaya mine. The first “200” (code word for dead person). We have found the first “200”. A Civilian.
“Greek”: Well, what do you have there?
“Major”: In short, it was 100 percent a passenger (civilian) aircraft.
“Greek”: Are many people there?
“Major”: Holy sh__t! The debris fell right into the yards (of homes).
“Greek”: What kind of aircraft?
“Major”: I haven’t ascertained this. I haven’t been to the main sight. I am only surveying the scene where the first bodies fell. There are the remains of internal brackets, seats and bodies.
“Greek”: Is there anything left of the weapon?
“Major”: Absolutely nothing. Civilian items, medicinal stuff, towels, toilet paper.
“Greek”: Are there documents?
“Major”: Yes, of one Indonesian student. From a university in Thompson.

>>32565046
Transcript of the intercepted calls PART 2

Militant: Regarding the plane shot down in the area of Snizhne-Torez. It’s a civilian one. Fell down near Grabove. There are lots of corpses of women and children. The Cossacks are out there looking at all this.
They say on TV it’s AN-26 transport plane, but they say it’s written Malaysia Airlines on the plane. What was it doing on Ukraine’s territory?

Nikolay Kozitsin: That means they were carrying spies. They shouldn’t be f…cking flying. There is a war going on.

The phone calls have been intercepted by SBU (Security Service of Ukraine). Whilst the translations of the transcripts are correct, the information contained within cannot be verified. SBU has launched a full-scale investigation into what was perceived as an act of terrorism/

A Queensland family, which has been affected by both Malaysia Airline disasters, has requested privacy to deal with their latest loss, the Sydney Morning Herald reports citing the Brisbane Times.

>Kaylene Mann lost her brother Rod Burrows and her sister-in-law Mary when MH370 mysteriously disappeared in March this year.

>Her step-daughter Maree Rizk and her husband Albert, from Sunbury near Melbourne, were among the Australians on flight MH17.

>The Burrows family has requested privacy on behalf of Ms Mann and her husband John

Sergei Lavrov, the foreign minister of Russia, has called for a thorough investigation into the crash and said talks were needed to establish a ceasefire in eastern Ukraine to allow the probe to be carried out.

He dismissed claims that Russia could be involved in the tragedy in an interview with Russia’s Rossiya-24 television channel. “As for the claims that we are hearing from Kiev saying that we almost did it ourselves - for the last several months I have not heard any truthful statements from Kiev,” he added.

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>>32565133
More info about the Buk system.

US officials say the passenger jet was shot down, citing evidence of infrared heat signal of a "massive event" as well as "information from intelligence assets" confirming the use of a surface-to-air missile system. Vice-president Joe Biden said the plane was "apparently … blown out of the sky".

The US will have access to satellite imagery that should be able to identify ultra-violet plumes if a long-range surface-to-air missile was fired.

Authorities have updated the death toll to 298 people killed when Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over Ukraine, near the Russian border, to include three infants not counted earlier.

That number includes people from: Netherlands 173, Malaysia 44, Australia 27, Indonesia 12 (including 1 infant), United Kingdom 9, Germany 4, Belgium 4, Philippines 3, Canada 1, New Zealand 1. There are still 20 unverified nationalities.

A number of the passengers were on their way to an international Aids conference in Melbourne, Australia. Names have not been confirmed but it is believed leading HIV/Aids researchers are among the dead. Malaysia Airlines is still contacting the next of kin of the deceased passengers but said in statement it would release the passenger manifest when it had finished.

181 bodies have been found so far.

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>>32564809
Who can find the human backbone in this pic? Supposedly there are hundreds of burnt skeletons in the wreckage.

Regarding the alleged 'Putin airplane flying nearby story' posted by RT:

http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/
>Reports that Putin flew similar route as MH17, presidential airport says 'hasn't overflown Ukraine for long time'
>As a source told Gazeta.ru online news portal, Putin’s plane does take off from Vnukovo-3 [the terminal that accepts business jets], but the president does not fly over the conflict-gripped neighboring country.

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>>32565753

>>32565133
>Specifications of the BUK system
>Target engagement zone
>altitude: 15 meters – 25 kilometers (50 feet - 15.5 miles)
>range: 3–42 kilometers (1.9-26 miles)
>range
>42 kilometers
You know, it's not hard to tell from what place should you fire to get plane crashed where he crashed.

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>>32565860
Ok, this ones harder. Find the child-sized ribcage and skull.

The Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) released recordings of intercepted phone calls between “terrorists” on their website, according to the Kiyv Post.

One of the three alleged phone calls was made 20 minutes after the plane crash by Igor Bezler, a pro-Russian separatist and rebel commander. The security agency said he called his “coordinator” Vasyl Mykolaiovych Geranin, whom the SBU claims is a colonel of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the GRU, Russia’s military intelligence apparatus.

“We have just shot down a plane. That was miner’s group. It feel down outside Yenakievo,” Bezler allegedly told Geranin. “The plane broke into pieces in the air, close to Petropavlovskaya mine. There is the first two-hundreth (sic) dead, we have found the first two–hundredth (sic). It’s a civilian.”

The second conversation was apparently between pro-Russia militants named “Major” and “Greek,” confirming that it was a Malaysia Airlines Plane. The third is between Cossack commander Nikolay Kozitsin and an unnamed militant. Kozitsin believes a plane flying over Eastern Ukraine "means they were carrying spies. They shouldn’t be f…cking flying. There is a war going on."

The calls are still unverified, but this isn’t the first time the SBU has been accused of spying. In 2004, a former member of the intelligence agency accused it of spying on politicians and officers, even some overseas.

>>32565046
They both have Ukrainian accents.

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>>32565980
damn that low res, not sure about this one.

>>32565677
Jesus Christ why do info graphics all suck so much.

>Not to scale

>Doesn't show the actual range just the listed max altitude which isn't even the highest it could theoretically engage with a good shot

>Doesn't show lateral engagement degradation due to range.

>>32564809
Stop spreading lies. The rebels never has a working Buk.

WHO DID IT AND WHY?

>>32564868
That's a lie. Russian media never did that and the rebels never claimed to own one.

Ukraine ministry of defense declared today, that the rebels never captured any Buks.

This sounds a lot like a setup for a future false flag.

And you sound a lot like a shill.

>>32564809
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=aad_1405654499 moment of impact

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4HJmev5xg0

BUK that is missing two missiles spotted in video.

Not sure if genuine or staged since internal ministry posted it and you can't make out the location from this video.

>>32566163
some anon posted yesterdat that the avionics and IFF or something in this plane was replaced wiht the crashed troop transport one from a month or so ago. this would have allowed radar signature to appear military and maybe manipulation of autopilot

>>32566163
From what I've seen so far I think Ukraine did it and are blaming it on the Seperatists to get the rest of the world involved against Russia.

Its devilish.

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>>32565046
The video has been created more than a day before the crash. You can dl it from youtube and check it yourself. Nice try tho.

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An unconfirmed report showing that the separatists are in control of a Buk surface-to-air missile system, including photos of separatists with said Buk system.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=31f_1405616881

The Russian news agencies, including ITAR-TAS, quoted by the report, are alleged to have said (translated): "The sky above Donetsk will now be defended by the anti-air asset "Buk".

>>32566261
How the hell did you come up with that conclusion?

Kiev troops haven’t used any missiles during the military operation in eastern Ukraine, said Andrey Lysenko, spokesman for Ukraine's Security Council, as cited by Reuters.

"All missiles that are in our armory - not one of them has been used," he said.

According to Bogdan Senyk, a spokesman for the Defense Ministry, the Malaysian plane was out of the range of Kiev’s anti-aircraft missile systems.

"Anti-aircraft missiles have not been deployed during the anti-terrorist operation ... they are all in place," he added.

>>32566134
http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1287030
you dipshit

>>32566194
link to UA MOD's declaration?

>>32565475
You have got to be kidding me.

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>>32566134
rebel captured Buk on it's way to DOnetsk. Pic from two days ago.
https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=304868&start=875

>>32566367
so where did the rebels capture the BUK from?

and remember when the crimea thing started? the Ukrainian army first moved the AA divisions in

>>32566194
see
>>32566400

>>32566258
IFF would definitely not have anything to do with the autopilot

>be me
>woke up
>check internet
>mh 17 down in ukraine
>jews invade gaza

What a great fucking way to start the day.

>>32566445
if you had access to switch the IFF, wouldnt you have access to manipulate the autopilot to make that 2-3 degree diversion over poland?

>>32564809
The flight path was entirely different than every single other day.

Lusitania confirmed.

/pol/ newfag here. just thought i should post this here. final seconds of the MH17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HgzYVOLeM4s

>>32566322
The airline changed course over Poland for no apparent reason so it entered Ukrainian airspace. The majority of the airlines flying near Ukraine had altered their flight plans so that the planes would go nowhere NEAR Ukrainian airspace. [Look at the OP's Pic for fuck sake]

The original estimation of the crash was in Western Ukraine, then it suddenly changed to be in deep Eastern Ukraine on the edge of Separatist territory. I can understand a small estimation error on breaking news but we are talking a MAJOR location change.

>>32566400
Ukrainian ministry of defense said rebels never captured any. So you don't trust even the ukrainian government now?
see >>32566367

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More info about the flight

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>>32566516

American planes can't even fly after hit by SAM two times.

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>>32566134
Buk SAM deployed by the Russians (sighted en route from Torez/#MH17 site to Snizhne, Ukraine) —- buk missile launcher

>>32566497

The post you quoted is from Kyiv loyalists >>32566367
>Kiev troops haven’t used any missiles during the military operation in eastern Ukraine, said Andrey Lysenko, spokesman for Ukraine's Security Council, as cited by Reuters.
>Kiev troops
>Ukraine's Security Council

>RIDF in charge or reading and comprehension

>>32564809
>implying that was the route MAS 17 was taking on previous days

this is the usual route\; http://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140715/1000Z/EHAM/WMKK

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>>32566300
Anon, here's Buk-M. It's not a single vehicle with missiles, and without them it's not very useful.

>>32566469
Let's hope ISIS do something major in the next couple of days to keep the happening train a-rollin'.

Breaking News:
Russian administration claims to have evidence that the Ukranian military was tracking the plane

>>32566194
+15 (you know what that means, don't you?)

lol
posting lie
@
hoping that nobody here know russian to go to look for proofs themselves.

>>32566585
source you useless cunt

>>32566574
He said that no missiles have been captured in the same report. Just google it.

On the other hand the jet was escorted by 2 ukrainian fighters.

>>32566477
No, the other avionics that hold the flightplan (MFDs) would be easiest to sabotage, as someone said some avionics were changed out and pilots are pretty dumb/can be manipulated. Was probably hijacked in the sky but when they find the FDR...if they find it...we'll know what happened since that records voice and all inputs to the aircraft

>>32566580
>http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=31f_1405616881

Please take some time to open the link before you shtipost. It has the photos of all the components of a Buk system, supposedly in separatist possession.

>>32566262
what do you make out of this?

>>32566580
just the missile vehicle can operate alone just fine

go shill somewhere else, russian shitter

>>32566585
Nigger there's a war going on, they'd be tracking anything and everything.

>>32566611
was announced on RT a few minutes ago

>>32566483
source? malaysian news?

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>>32566194
Pro Russian Buk system under camo on streets of Snejnoe #MH17

STFU you nigger!

>>32566574
>Lysenko

Know homosexual pedophile, lol.

>>32566665
nope. indonesian, apparently.

>>32566618
i know they are not on the same system infra you twat. im saying if you had the access to the plane while it was on ground, you could manipulate both

autopilot and IFF, although yes IFF would take more time and difficulty, unless this was MH370 from Diego Garcia that was switched in Amsterdam with the IFF already replaced

>>32566648
>hato shill in denial

>>32566679
RIDF shilling in full force, at least try to be less obvious like this guy>>32566194

>>32566585
Ukraine military tracked the plane. Provided info to rebels who shot BUK missile that was provided by Putin.

>>32566585
Ofc UKr is tracking the plane, like every country tracks everyplane in its airspace

>>32566483
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gogn29D1zis
confirmed

>>32566643
That Ukrainian government knew the plane will be shot down and prepared the "intercepted transmission" beforehead,

Daily Telegraph reports:
Anton Gerashchenko, an adviser to Ukraine's interior minister, has made the latest of a series of claims that a Buk missile launcher allegedly used by pro-Russian rebels to knock down Flight MH17 was smuggled away into Russia overnight. He highlights a video which purportedly shows the launcher with two of its missiles missing, writing "it's not hard to guess why".

“It was exactly these missiles which brought death to almost 300 innocent passengers of the ill-fated Malaysian Boeing,” he added.

Mr Gerashchenko says the video was made by Ukrainian intelligence agents at 4.50am as the launcher was on the move towards the Russian border near the town of Krasnodon.

We obviously can't confirm it's authenticity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4HJmev5xg0

>>32566246
Rebel BUK missile system filmed in Torez two days ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkgwxxhJlk4

>>32566483
is it just the video or is the plane actually not burning/covered in smoke when it came down? i was under the impression that the damage from the surface-to-air weapons should have caused some visible fire/smoke.

>>32564809
>US intelligence
HAHAHAHA OHWOW

>>32566367
>implying there is any side in this conflict that isnt lying to some degree

If it was said by a separatist or Ukrainian official and is in their favour, you can disregard it right away because the chance of it being at least partially a lie is pretty huge

>>32566786
:)

>>32566740
How did they know where it would crash?

>>32566483
Man, that plane does not look like it was damaged by a missile at all. The tail and wing looks intact. Nothing is on fire, not even the engine. Unless the missile's fragment blew into the cockpit and wiped out the crew or something. Is there a possibility that the plane was hjacked and forced to crash in that area as well? Or maybe that the missile ripped a hole on the side of the airplane that i can't spot from the video

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It's been putinbot shilling overkill on the internet over the past 24 hours.

Kremlin web brigades trying too hard at adamage control.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_brigade

This genie not going back in bottle, you fucking rusofascist fucks.

>>32566815
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gogn29D1zis

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>>32564809
Find the head and upper body in this one.

>>32566815
pls be troll

>>32566648
Everything can operate without radar and shit. But it's like firing with AK-47 from the corner holding it in outstretched hands and with your eyes closed.

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>>32566702
Sorry, I just assumed nobody on this board has technical knowledge

Do you have links to a report about the avionics being switched out? I'm curious.

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>>32566666
That's not a Buk system. That a missile launcher module. Now check this pic, that's what Buk system looks like.

>>32566815
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=93f_1405637815

>falling debris

yeah id say it was assploded from the air

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U mad, europoors?

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>>32566857
Wrong pic, that was S-300. Here's the right one.

i believe we have ourselves a war
there are filtered statements about a cross border shooting going on between ukraine and russia

>>32564831
Well they just did. They need to keep their filthy Slav hands off of everything. Just put some tape up around the perimeter and shoot any snow monkeys that try and pinch something.

Sh, are there some anons who can into math, or just shills shilling shills from both sides?

>>32566813
That's pretty obvious, they changed the flight course.

"Shortly before reports surfaced that a Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 had crashed in eastern Ukraine, a social media site purported to belong to a separatist leader claimed that insurgents had shot down an aircraft.

In a post on VKontakte, Russia’s largest social media site, which has since been taken down, separatist leader Igor Girkin, aka Strelkov, wrote: “In the vicinity of Torez, we just downed a plane, an AN-26. It is lying somewhere in the Progress Mine. We have issued warnings not to fly in our airspace. We have video confirming. The bird fell on a waste heap. Residential areas were not hit. Civilians were not injured.”

The AN-26 is a Soviet-built twin-engine transport plane used by the Ukrainian military. Torez is a small city of 80,000 located some 40 kilometers east of Donetsk. Included in the post were two videos that showed a rising plume of black smoke in the distance.

The claim was posted at 5:50 pm Moscow time, shortly before reports surfaced that the Malaysian civilian aircraft, on a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, had crashed in eastern Ukraine in the same area near the Russian border."

Why is there still any dispute on who did it?

Dutch politician Willem Witteveen, a member of the senate, was among the victims of the Malaysian airplane crash, said a statement from the Dutch parliament, according to press in the Netherlands.

The Dutch Justice and Safety Minister has just said it is "highly likely" that the plane was shot down.

>>32566895

BUK-M1 has ability to work without any additional radar. It consists of TEL and TELAR systems , TELAR has autonomous in-built radar which can be used for fire.

Rebels have both TEL and TELAR vehicles, therefore they dont need full complex with "KUPOL" Radar.

http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.nl/2014/07/russian-transport-of-buk-that-shot-down.html

They don goofed this time

>>32564809
I'm happy for the crash. It took out the AIDS researchers after all. Now AIDS will be cured all the sooner after the faggots die out. God truly does hate fags.

>>32566585
That information is exactly as useful as Ukrainian officials claiming they have proof that it was the Russians

So lets look at the two possibilities here:
>The Ukrainians shot it down
>the rebels shot it down

I think it could be a 50/50 chance of either side doing it until we have more infomation. After all the plane was diverted onto a new course and the Ukr Army has been freaking out about "Russian Aircraft" violating their airspace.
It could be a reasonable assumption that word wasn't passed on and some new guys on the AA they've deployed to the region saw the radar return and just assumed "not ours, must be russian"

However the chance the rebels did it is just as likely

Lets wait till more evidence comes out before blame is assigned

>>32566815
the missiles operate on fragmentation, so planes won't really explode in a giant fireball, especially a huge ass one like a 777

>nothing is on fire
They put them out before taking pictures I assume

>>32566933
We can't even into verifiable info, so why do you think any derivation from the info could be of any help.

>>32566836
missile unit has its own radar
obviously less powerfull and less accurate

>>32566944
Evidence of this? Give me a reliable source. So not some russian site in shill overdrive or zerohedge or alex jones.

>>32566964
>Rebels have both TEL and TELAR vehicles
No, they don't they only have one.

Just wait for the evening, Putin will BTFO everyone with proof of a false flag.

Just to add balance, the captured BUK was out of action according to Kiev.

But that aside, if confirmed to be separatists, what do?

>>32567025
>>32566562

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>>32567025
http://www.businessinsider.com/mh17-map-2014-7

Read the news or something. Ukrainian flight control suddenly changed the course and led it right into the rebel territory.

Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has dismissed Ukraine's claims of Russian involvement in the downing of the plane, writes Shaun Walker.

>Speaking on Russian TV, he said: "As for the things they are saying in Kiev, basically accusing us of doing it, over the past months, I have pretty much never heard a truthful statement coming out of Kiev."

>He also said that if it was proven that shelling of Russian territory from Ukraine is deliberate, Russia could carry out strikes against the sources, however he did say that currently it appears to be due to "unprofessional" Ukrainian operations and accidental.

Ukraine's army has not deployed missiles during fighting with pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine and the Malaysian airliner that was brought down there was out of range of the systems it uses, Ukrainian officials told Reuters.

>"All missiles that are in our armoury, not one of them has been used," Andriy Lysenko, spokesman for Ukraine's Security Council, said.

>Bohdan Senyk, a spokesman for the Defence Ministry, said the airliner was out of range of the Ukrainian army's anti-aircraft missile systems: "Anti-aircraft missiles have not been deployed during the anti-terrorist operation ... they are all in place."

>>32567036
It's not like a Slav can jump in one these things and start shooting shit down. There are colored buttons and noises that go bip.

>>32567049
since when are Ukrainians in charge of airline control?

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>>32566088
How many bodies can you find??

>>32567027

They do have both TEL and TELAR, Retard. THe one on twitter pictures from rebels was TEL vehicle, another one detected in Snezhny was TELAR.

Shut the fuck up already, RIDF

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pvslnxh72w

>>32567087
>>Bohdan Senyk, a spokesman for the Defence Ministry, said the airliner was out of range of the Ukrainian army's anti-aircraft missile systems: "Anti-aircraft missiles have not been deployed during the anti-terrorist operation ... they are all in place."

don't they have twitter pics and news reports detailing how they've moved a bunch of Buks out to the east because they're afraid the Russians are shooting down their planes

>>32567098
When you fly over a country you take orders from it's flight control.

>>32567087
I'm not sure yet if it was the separatists or the Ukrainian army, but I'm 99% certain it was not the Russians. At least not directly, if they wanted to do something like that they'd have done it by proxy through the separatists.

>fucking shills everywhere

if its the rebels or the UKR forces it is UKR who is to blame end of fucking story.

The International community needs to beat up UKR and split it up if they can't fucking control their citizens.

>>32566997
But we can make a crude and simple math about radius from where should missile fly to shoot down plane so he fall where he fall.

>>32566815
The missile fragmented and did not directly impact the plane, so a huge fireball is unlikely. The fragments likely caused parts of the plane to rip off in midair and probably entered the fuselage and cockpit and killed a great deal of the people on board, but did not cause an explosion.

>>32567036
>But that aside, if confirmed to be separatists, what do?
nothing, the media cries for a few days so that westerners can feel bad, then pat themselves on the back for caring so much about others
Then it's back to reruns of their favorite TV show

>>32567098
They control the airline control that's in their airspace

>>32567158
okay

>>32567102
Watch this instead, with 1000% more internal organs.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0e5_1405626203

>>32566815
>>32566996
>>32566865
Nevermind, i guess it was damaged in a spot that i can't see from the video. The front landing gear was out during the final moment so i guess the pilots were trying to land it but did not make it.

>>32567087
>Bohdan Senyk, a spokesman for the Defence Ministry, said the airliner was out of range of the Ukrainian army's anti-aircraft missile systems

krk

Russians did it

Wow man there is so much disinfo flying around about this, I can't help but suspect it's a sabre-rattling psy-ops job by the west.

>>32566865
At 0:17 those are toilet paper rolls falling from 30,000 ft. They're also alot closer than the crash. Ass-end of plane came off in flight.

>>32565475
Holy fuck, that is pretty god damn terrible.

>>32566857
UR a FUCKIN RIDF Shillbot. That's not anything like a Buk.
Faggot.

>>32567239

UKR Army did it because they're in deep shit and want NATO forces to join the fight.

>>32567077
That says nothing about Ukrainians directing it. Read your own sources before posting them.

All it says is that it may have diverted due to weather, and as is visible by the flight path, there is no sign of a sudden deviation due to a call for a flight path change.

>>32564809
>>32565753
>>32565860
>>32565980
>>32566088
>>32567102
>>32567200
so gore aside, the aircraft went from 10 000m to the ground, with little to minimal damage, keeping the flight crew mostly intact when they crashed.

how was the plane hit as it went? how did it go down?

eh, this is queezy

Anyone have proof that Ukraine did it? I'm hearing that a possible motive is to kill Putin but I don't see any proof here.

>>32567181
/thread

Meanwhile, Ukrainian armed forces started major offensive in Lugansk, trying to break the siege by rebels.

Rebel held positions are constantly bombed with "Tornado" MRLS Systems. Huge tank columns moving towards severodonetsk.


ITS HABBEDING

>>32567241
Of course there is tons of disinfo flying around, there is currently no bigger, relevant party that is not involved in this conflict.
The only thing I would believe is if someone steps forward and says it was their fault.

>>32567282
There's a difference between a plane crashing with full speed in tact towards the ground and a plane scattering itself as debris in freefall.

>>32567284
There's no proof that either side did it, at least not yet

There's only motives and potential reasons why they might have done it

>>32564809
Some untrained, drunken Slav misread the radar.

777s look a helluva lot like a Ilyushin Il-76 on the radar. You know the rebels aren't monitoring civilian flight plans.

It was an accident. Or Putin did it

>>32567098
You 10 yo or something?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_traffic_control
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_Control_Center

>>32567315
>yfw ISIS claims responsibility for the downed MH 17

>>32567243
>toilet paper

why not lighter metal alloys?

>>32567284
There is no proof that either side did it just speculation

>>32567306

Assad sends tanks against his own people and he's worse than hitler. How come it's fine when Ukraine does it?

>>32567282
The aircraft was hit by a missile in the air, and exploded, scattering the debris over a 40km2 area.

As shown by the pic in this post:
>>32565219

>>32567333
>lol it was an accident

>>32567333
You see, there is one thing.
The rebels don't have radars at all.

How worried should I be?

>>32567341
Okay, let me clarify:

I would believe everyone but ISIS and North Korea

>>32567330
>>32567347
I think the evidence is definitely saying that Russian separatists are to blame. It occurred in their area of control, with a weapon they likely had. Not to mention the audio transcript between some of the separatists and Russian intelligence.

Ukraine also claims to have more proof to come, so that's interesting. On the other hand, there's basically no proof at all to say Ukraine did this.

Andrii Kuzmenko, Ukraine's acting ambassador to the UK, is speaking on Sky News now.

He is asked: Can you absolutely categorically say that it was not a Ukrainian missile?
>Yes. I can categorically say that.

Jews shoot down aircraft so Gaza invasion isnt top news story

>>32566483
BULLSHIT!! That's the US Army's Boeing 747 crash in Afghanistan a year ago!!

>>32567350
Well the death toll in Syria is 100x more for starters.

>>32567239
I'm not RIDF but seriously how on earth would the Russians benefit from shooting down any airliner.
I believe you have to look at who benefits, or Quo Bono. They're usually the guilty jews er I mean party.

>>32567350

Ukraine is pro-West, that's all that matters.

>>32566258

radar signals can not 'appear military' or 'appear civilian'

IFF is simply radio trnasponder signals, without a BUK command post, the TELAR would be perfectly capable of targetting an aircraft but would have no idea what it was.

>>32567407
> It occurred in their area of control
It occurred in Ukraine's area of control.
Ukrainian flight control directed the flight into war zone. In any case Ukrainian government is to blame, no matter who shot the plane.

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>>32567093

No no, you just have to stand near one and press a button. Trust me, I saw it in a movie.

Americans have all the proof they need.
Now they are just negotiating, what kind of "payment" will russians give them for not releasing the intelligence data.
So expect some business deal etc. soon.

>>32566830
Look at the date Gizzbot. It's from 2013

>>32567407
unfortunately for that case, all the "proof" that the separatists did it is coming from the Ukr government, which honestly isn't a reliable source and has an axe to grind

I think it's highly likely that either side did it, it just depends on who gets the most credible evidence out first.

Either way, ukraine is legally to blame for the incident

>>32566483
>Afghanistan plane crash
>shopped twitter post
>tons of disinfo
>comments disabled

I wonder who is behind this post

>>32566262
Nice try, RIDF, but that's not the video creation date at all. Try downloading a random provate video from youtube which was obviously made just now and you'll see the encoded and tagged dates to be a few days off as well.

>>32567284

Technically, the Russian separatists are Ukrainian. I don't see why anyone would be waggling the finger at Putin.

>>32567181
No it's not. This rebellion would have been over a long time ago if the rebels were not supported by Russia. Ukraine is not at fault. Russia is. If the Buk is Russian, there you have it. They supplied the arms that took down the plane. If the Buk is captured Ukrainian hardware, then the rebels would not have been able to mount a mission to obtain it without the weaponry and expertise provided by Russia, and they would not have the training to use it.

It all goes back to Russia. They supported these idiots, and they did not think of the possible consequences. They helped, either through smuggling or indirect assistance in capture, the rebels obtain this kind of weaponry, and so it is their fault when this tumor makes a bonehead mistake like this. And even if, against all likelihood, it is Ukraine who did this, there is STILL blood on Russia's hand because they are the ones perpetuating this conflict. If Putin can say it's Ukraine's fault for reigniting the ATO, I can say it's Putin's fault for fueling this conflict in the first place.

>>32567484
Gee. Really.
I posted that to show the 2013 part, unlike other people who went OMG NO DAMAGE

>>32567378
BUK has built in-radar

>>32567469
>person x ask directions to some place
>person y tells x to just drive throught the ghetto
>person x gets robbed and killed by nigger
>ITS PERSON Y'S FAULT NOT THE NIGGERS!

>>32567378

Is there any missile system the rebels could have that doesn't require radar to hit something at 5 miles? Can any missile system do this? If no, who provided the radar to them?

>>32567036
Source??

>>32567517
Nope. Youtube changes the tags to upload time. Psyops fucked up and now in full damage control mode.

>>32567049
>omg omg ukraine air control diverted the plain!!!12!1
>in Poland

So what happends now?
Un sends some troops to restore peace and fight the rebels? Putin gets either mad that the people who dont want to be part of ukraine get punished or he says he has no affiliations with them whatsoever?

>>32566492

OPs image shows three airlines all flying over luhansk and donetsk, you are talking total rubbish

I didnt believe RIDF was a thing until this crash happened but i am starting to change my mind

>>32567432

but the west was calling for him to be removed as early as April 2011, when the death toll was FAR below Ukraine.

>>32567536
>I don't see why anyone would be waggling the finger at Putin.
Because nobody cares about that shithole, the Ukraine would be completely irrelevant to the western countries if it didn't have military value against Russia.
This was never about anything else than their cold war

Guys.
Hey guys.
Guys seriously.
It was Brazil.

>>32567093
THe rebels are mostly RUSSIAN ARMED FORCES. Trained and equiped by Russia. Theyre not Slav Ukrainians

>>32567540
To clarify, BUK has a built in radar that will just show objects in the air. An additional module carries and external radar that can identify those objects as either commercial or military objects.

There is a possibility that the Rebels either didn't have or didn't know how to use the external radar module and only used the in-built radar in the Buk. They saw something in the air and shot it down, thinking it's something that belongs to Ukraine forces.

>>32567469
No, the plane crashed near Donetsk which is currently controlled by separatists.
>>32567501
I don't think it matters if the Ukrainian government is reliable or not, what matters is the reliability of the information. How about the separatist commander boasting about shooting down a plane and then removing it after?

In the end, nobody would have anything to gain by shooting down a Malaysian passenger aircraft that has nothing to do with the Ukraine crisis. It is much easier to believe pro-Russian separatists made a mistake than the Ukrainian military making a mistake.
>>32567536
The separatists consider themselves Russian, they speak Russian and they want to be part of Russia. If I was Putin, I'd be fucking pissed that the weapons supplied by Russia to these rebels have caused this.

>>32567540
It doesn't. Buk needs a separate radar vehicle and a separate control vehicle. End of story. Go check wikipedia before claiming bullshit like that.

>>32567378
>have no radar

A standard Buk battalion consists of a command vehicle, target acquisition radar (TAR) vehicle, six transporter erector launcher and radar (TELAR) vehicles and three transporter erector launcher (TEL) vehicles. A Buk missile battery consists of two TELAR and one TEL vehicle.

They're not hipfiring the thing

>>32567176
The rusofascist separatists ARE russians, dummy

>>32567575
nothing happens

literally, world leaders will say a few sad words and that'll be the end of it

>>32567276
these are the kinda faggots who are functioning over there in ukraine, or whatever backwater slavic country that is. posts pictures from right inside the zone, and acts liek a faggot. so the whole situation there is a bunch of fuckin faggots

lol ufaggots shot a plane down, fuckin idiot morons

>>32567607
Does the radar distinguish between military and civilian aircraft?

>>32567597
Top kek. Your shilling is getting too obvious.

>>32567615
A civilian airplane with almost 300 people in it got shot down by a terrorist/rebel group in europe.
Pretty sure something will happen alright

>>32567586
You are still forgetting about gas line running through Uk

>>32567102
I saw a video on Vk.com that showed the missile hi and followed the plane down. It circled around several times and took over 2 minutes before it hit. That fucking pilot was a hero, he almost managed to land it with no tail.

>>32567599
>the plane crashed near Donetsk which is currently controlled by separatists.
It's still Ukraine. For everything that happens in Ukraine the Ukrainian government is to blame.

Unless they denounce the territories they will be held legally accountable.

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A country that can do this

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-28295574

panders to liberals and is too afraid to use their massive military technological advantage to do good.

>>32567654
nothing happens.

File: Inside_of_a_Buk-SAM_(cropped)[1].jpg (587KB, 712x809px) Image search: [Google]

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Inside BUK launcher (just the vehicle with missiles).
Has its own simple radar.
Ofc looking at that screen, you cant tell if that dot is military transport plane of civilian airliner..

>>32566643
I make out of this that I took last weeks pics dated from january 2005 of a building that was redecorated in 2012
simply because I replaced the batteries of my camera and forgot to reset the date

a timestamp on any document means absolutely nothing if it is not cryptographically certified

morons, morons everywhere

>>32567597
Even if they were Russian military vets, this is a pretty specialized piece of equipment, unless you're in tune with the bips you're pretty well fucked.

>>32567673
That's like blaming the North for slavery during the American Civil War. It's just not how law or accountability or anything works, ever.

>>32567655
Aren't they already in the process of building pipelines around it? I know that Germany is already independent of Ukrainian pipelines.

>>32567284

> I'm hearing that a possible motive is to kill Putin

lmfao

>>32567575
Support for the new Ukraine government spikes, Putin is embarrassed and shuts up for a while, military aid is officially sent into Ukraine, rebel areas taken back under control.

>>32567670
Ya right, fuckin source.

>>32567547
Either they captured the system from Ukraine or got one from Russia.

Russian news agencies reported they had captured one from Ukraine but this could mean it was given to them by Russia as well. The reason for saying it was Ukrainian in this case would obviously be to increase morale of the separatists by touting a significant hardware capture, as well as to ensure Russia's complicity is not outed. I am not saying this is the case though. We don't know. All we know is that it definitely was shot down by a surface to air missile, and the rebels were bragging about having one, and that they bragged about shooting down a plane around the time of the incident. So far that is the only conclusive evidence as to who shot down the plane. If the phonecalls posted by the SBU are genuine then obviously it was the rebels, but we don't know that yet.

Right now, information points to the rebels but we are not 100% sure yet.

If Rebels do end up being behind this, then I would not be surprised if more countries provided lethal aid to Ukraine, and I would also not doubt that some went as far as providing military advisors.

This all changes though if Russia decides to invade.

>>32567599
>nobody would have anything to gain by shooting down a Malaysian passenger aircraft that has nothing to do with the Ukraine crisis

fucking shill. The west has everything to gain by provoking another Lusitania.

NEW YORK TIMES:

Ukraine accused the separatists of carrying out what it called a terrorist attack. American intelligence and military officials said the plane had been destroyed by a Russian SA-series missile, based on surveillance satellite data that showed the final trajectory and impact of the missile but not its point of origin.

>>32567597
>Trained and equiped by Russia

They are Russian SUPPORTED. Just like Maidan and UKR are US SUPPORTED. Saying RUSSIAN ARMED FORCES is like saying it's the Regular Russian Army.

>>32567670
>no tail
you are retarded a buk missile explodes into a 100m sq. shrapnel cloud which continues at mach 3 velocity. even if it wings it's target it would cause such a high friction that a large airliner would split apart in the air. from photo evidence this was a direct hit and the airplane was disintegrated entirely and scattered over 10km

>>32567540

BBC 'expert' claimed they needed radar. But that could have been for the other system they were talking about yesterday.

>>32567599
>I don't think it matters if the Ukrainian government is reliable or not, what matters is the reliability of the information
do you realize the leap you just made?
The ukr government has released information in the past of a similar nature that's turned out to be completely false
I would only trust a report from a third party in this matter, one that doesn't have a stake in the conflict

>than the Ukrainian military making a mistake.
unfortunately the ukr military is about the same level of competence as the rebels

>How about the separatist commander boasting about shooting down a plane and then removing it after?
supposedly pol proved that to be a fake, but not sure on the matter

I'm not saying it wasn't the rebels, I'm just saying wait till more evidence is released and blame can be assigned
There's a strong likelihood that either side could be responsible
>>32567654
you are ignorantly naive

>>32567350
Because Assad has the temerity to fight back against our Jihadi stormtroopers.

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Russians are really good when it comes to strict adherence to ROE. I really doubt some backwater rebels were manning BUKs. That would be like a drunk Russian peasant piloting a SU-35

Ukrainians though don't really have a good track record for ROE.

>>32567188
The BUK missile travels at over 1 mile per second. When it explodes near the plane, the explosion is also traveling that fast. Doesn't take much to knock it down.

>>32567724
>That's like blaming the North for slavery during the American Civil War
America was a federation. local autorities were responsible. Ukraine on the other hand has a single central government. And even if the rebels get a nuke and nuke someone's ass Ukraine's government will be legally responsible. That's how it works.

If they admit they can't control own country, then peacekeeping troops will enter and divide Ukraine.

>>32567599

Yes but they're not Russian forces, they are Ukrainian citizens. Even the Ukrainian nationalists use Russian weapons.

>>32567434
it was an accident

http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.nl/2014/07/russian-transport-of-buk-that-shot-down.html

>>32564809
>Those planes which prefer to go over Romania than Ukraine

They aren't afraid of gypsies stealing their parts during the fly? They are like gremlins

>>32566827

in what way is Russia responsible? Do you believe the Kremlin ordered the separatists to down a civilian aircraft? Or are you trying to subtly massage opinion?

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>>32564809
Putin didn't do this, this has false-flag written all over it, especially since the U.S. government and the U.S. redacted media jumped all over it, blaming Russia before there was any investigation at all.

Consider this information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17. This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after the Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down:

1) plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.

2) Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian Boeing. This change of course took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region.

3) Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.

4) Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.

Possibilities?
1) Ukraine purposefully directed this plane over the war zone hoping the rebels would shoot it down

2) Ukraine purposefully directed this plane over the war zone and then shot it down themselves, to blame it on Russian separatists.

3) plane had a bomb on it all along, was forced by its fighter escorts to cross over the war zone, where the bomb was then remotely detonated, insuring a clean "hit" that could be blamed on the Russians.

Ask yourself one question: why would the Russians purposefully shoot down a passenger plane? What could they possibly gain from this action except international trouble?
Clearly this was a set-up.

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>Russians over use word faggot

>>32566827
shlomo pls

>>32566954

because any time this gets mentioned russian shills jump in and cry about it being a 'fanpage' and not having any provable connection to Girkin, despite the fact that just having access to those videos at that time proves it was the rebels

>>32567762
That was my favorite part of this news story
>"deliberate terrorist attack"

>>32566895

fuck off retard

>>32567695
creation date for the last fucking time is youtube's md5 cache source date
not the specific file's appended creation date

>>32567673
I knew you brose /pol/, mr. Putin.
>Putin Says Ukraine 'Bears Responsibility' for Malaysia Flight Jet Crash
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-plane-crash/putin-says-ukraine-bears-responsibility-malaysia-flight-jet-crash-n158901

>>32567847
>look out of the window
>some gypsy is trying to pull apart the engine mid air

>>32564809

http://it.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/2b1gjb/q_are_ukrainians_officials_in_full_damage_control/

UPBOAT THIS!1

Putin dun goofed here. You never go full retard and arm such retarded chimps.

Now he looks like the bad guy for eternity.

Wait for Obama to exploit this in a few hours.

>>32567780
A decent fraction of them ARE from the regular Russian army.
Fuck, there was an interview on live RT TV with a rebel leader in which he admits he's an officer in the Russian army.

>>32567673
No they won't. Are you at fault if some guy decides to shoot an endangered bird that's perched on your house? No, unless of course we live in your bird.

The person who did this is the person at fault. The end. The idea that because it happened in what should be Ukraine is Ukraine's fault is absurd.

>>32567027

go kill yourself moron

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>>32566832
EZ

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>>32567750
kek

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>>32567852
>plane had a bomb on it all along

kek, sure I believe you Ivan

>>32567899
we live in your world*

>>32567852
hi tovarish ))))))))))))
how many roubles they pay u???

>>32566954
Because the post is fake and strelkov confirmed multiple times beforehand, that he does not use social media

>>32567899
That's how the international law works, like it or not.

>>32567900
shil shill shill shill

>>32564809
>Not believing in some false flag shit from the US goverment

Sure are sheep in here

>>32567852

Clearly this is the night-shift (read: shit) shill team. Please, Ivan, you will not earn your 5 rubles per post here. Move along.

>>32567792
I really don't think the Ukrainian government is on the same level of legitimacy as the Russian separatists. There isn't anything similar to this incident, so there's no way you can compare past incidents like this, but still I think you can't make it look like the Ukrainian government is just so incompetent, especially when they've not only announced evidence but released it too. Not to mention the fact that third parties have approved the evidence.
>>32567824
No, Ukraine would not be responsible for someone else using a nuclear weapon if they did not use it. They could be responsible for incompetence in that someone else got that weapon, but they aren't responsible for what happens with it.
>>32567834
I'm not saying they are Russian forces, I'm saying they are Russian separatists, regardless of anything else.
>>32567961
You really have to come up with some proof of this zany thinking.

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>>32567183

Buk can shoot down a B2 or incoming missiles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsgQ83irr0o

>>32567792
>you are ignorantly naive
Not really.
It's not some building in America being destroyed, it's a bunch of idiots making globalization that much harder. And most of the civilized world wants globalization.

>>32567864
Also the fact that this was used as an official page for long before this and they only said it was a fanpage now. Previous statements were treated as official and no one made a fuss.

They let the cat out of the bag at go and now are scrambling to fix it, but it's no use.

>Ukrainian KGB is competent enough to tape top rebel command!
>Ukrainian KGB can't set the clock on their supercomputer!

Pick one.

>>32567634
>Does the radar distinguish between military and civilian aircraft?
All civilian aircraft send out a transponder signal that should appear next to the radar blip.

>>32567852
>idiot drunk slav shoots a plane out of the air thinking it's military
>starts full damage control

hehehe

>>32567205

that is not video of MH17, it is a USAF boeing crashing because of unsecured cargo shifting during takeoff from like 2 years ago

>>32567634
No radar in the world does that, especially not one from the 1980s

Radars show little dots, big planes have similar sized dots. If the Slav wasn't reading civilian flight plans, he didn't know there was a passenger plane going over.

>>32567266
Guess they aren't flying Malaysian anytime soon.

>>32567852
>Ask yourself one question: why would the Russians purposefully shoot down a passenger plane? What could they possibly gain from this action except international trouble?

This is an easy one.
>Boris, look, a Ukrainian transport plane. Let's shoot it down.
>Good idea Vladimir.
Some minutes later.
>Oh shit, that's not a military plane.

>>32564809

Why didn't the Russians take the 80m crater in Siberia formed by American space lasers seriously?

>>32567852
>everything is false flag
Everyone knows there's no other countries, we're all just being experimented on by the Grays to test us for joining the Galactic Senate

>>32567888
Go back to where you came from.

>>32568045
I assume this means they have space lasers of their own now

>>32568044
Maybe they have a thing about foreigners and AIDS.

>>32568001
nothings going to happen, the citizens on the plane are members of nations that aren't globally relevant to begin with

and what would they do anyways...sanction some rebels?

>>32568001
>And most of the civilized world wants globalization.
No, most of the retards and losers in this world want globalization.

Globalization simply replaces citizen-supported governments and democracies with feudalistic richfag tyrants...why the fuck do you want that?

>>32566367
UA's SA-10/12/20 systems around kiev(S-300) are more than capable of covering the airspace around the entirity of ukraine and beyond

>>32568015
>>32568040
It seems like there's plenty of room for someone mistaking a civilian plane for a military plane. I heard on the released conversation between some separatists something like "what was that plane doing above Ukraine anyway?", unaware it was an international air route.

Russian BUK installation crossing the Russian border with 3 instead of 4 missiles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4HJmev5xg0

yikes

Ukraine's emergency services find two black boxes at crash site-Interfax-Ukraine

KIEV - Ukraine's emergency services have found two black boxes at the crash site of a Malaysian airliner, Interfax-Ukraine quoted an adviser to the governor of eastern Ukraine's Donetsk region.

"Two black boxes were found by our emergency services. I have no information on where these boxes are at the moment," Kostyantyn Batovsky was quoted as saying.

A spokesman for the Emergencies Ministry in Kiev declined to comment on the report.

>>32568096
>america
>uk
>various eu members
>not globally relevant

>>32564809
420 pm the pilots smoked a joint and crashed rip in peperonis

>>32567342

because if you watch the video it is clearly rolls of toilet paper falling as long streamers

>>32568110
Why russian s-400 don't down a plane over kiev?

>>32568101
That's the Alex Jones definition of globalization. What it really is would be something more libertarian, like international free trade. "Globalization" isn't really a system of government or anything.

>>32568123
Fucking lol. That is as close as you can get to a literal smoking gun.

>>32568044
All the real (not feeds) evidence point to this. Also lol @ putinbots at damage control

>>32568132
no americans died, just members of a few Euro nations, and honestly in terms of geopolitical power those nations aren't as important

>>32567959
Link/videos of said statements?

>>32568177
NATO, friends of NATO.

>>32568123
>yfw russians put a log painted white on the BUK and pretend its a missile

>>32567936
Well I reckon Ivan makes sense to a degree, I'm not sure about the on board bomb spiracy. The propaganda from the Ukraine has been over the top, the Russians were clearly caught completely off guard to the point where Putin was talking to Barry about sanctions when the shit hit the fan. They're a deliberate and thoughtful bunch those Russians and they're usually the first ones with a prepared script, they were fucked over this time.

>>32568123
It's so fucking hilarious that it's ACTUALLY being transported on a truck.

>>32567844
comments disabled
no source information
not even location other than 'border'
interior minister's 'advisor' presents the info not an actual government spokesman
>i'm not saying it looks like prefabricated evidence but... it looks like prefabricated evidence

>>32567243
well thats one way to tp a yard

I despise and hate Russia and its people. It needs to be stopped. What a shame

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Ok, so it's obvious to everyone who isn't shilling that this was a Buk missile supplied by Russia to the rebels and used foolishly to shoot down what they mistook for a Ukrainian air force jet.

Realistically what can the world do to punish Putin and Russia? uninvite from G8 and G20? Heavy sanctions? will Germany finally ween itself off Russian gas?

>>32568123
Doing independent analysis of the video now on google maps. I'm going to look for the billboard. I assume this is in the corridor on the border the the LNR controls.

My bet is on this being some trigger happy Kiev loyalists who thought it was a russian plane. The separatists may have got a buk system from somewhere but I doubt they know how to use the thing properly.

>>32567936
Bombs are not hard to make, the goat-fuckers built them out of cell-phones and blew up our humvees all the time.

And I'll use you to answer all the naysayers to my post: Interesting that you all have no real arguments, isn't it?
And none of you can answer the one real question here...why the fuck was a passenger plane diverted to fly over a war zone, where a military jet had just recently been shot down?

Does it really matter who destroyed the plane, when the obvious (and only) reason for it to be in that region to begin with was to force a false-flag incident?

And I'm AMERICAN, btw.

>>32568044
The alleged intercepted phone calls seems to suggest that:

“Major”: These are Chernukhin folks who shot down the plane. From the Chernukhin check point. Those cossacks who are based in Chernukhino.
“Grek”: Yes, Major.
"Major": The plane fell apart in the air. In the area of Petropavlovskaya mine. The first “200” (code word for dead person). We have found the first “200”. A Civilian.
“Greek”: Well, what do you have there?
“Major”: In short, it was 100 percent a passenger (civilian) aircraft.
“Greek”: Are many people there?
“Major”: Holy sh__t! The debris fell right into the yards (of homes).
“Greek”: What kind of aircraft?
“Major”: I haven’t ascertained this. I haven’t been to the main sight. I am only surveying the scene where the first bodies fell. There are the remains of internal brackets, seats and bodies.
“Greek”: Is there anything left of the weapon?
“Major”: Absolutely nothing. Civilian items, medicinal stuff, towels, toilet paper.
“Greek”: Are there documents?
“Major”: Yes, of one Indonesian student. From a university in Thompson.

>Cossacks in charge of surface-to-air missiles

>>32568283
Deep concerns as usual.

>>32568238
and NATO is a tool for American dominance
it's our way of keeping the Euro's in our sphere

harsh words will be said but that's it

>>32568192
How about you look them up yourself instead of asking for spoonfeeding? I am sick of people simply picking up every shit they see on the internet. There is no proof for a connection between the rebels and this side

>>32568261
hohol pls

>>32568304
their pretty hard to plant on a plane and get away with, it's a fucking loose change tier theory

>>32567600

TELAR

TRANSPORTER
ERECTOR
LAUNCHER
AND
RADAR

FUCKING RADAR YOU FUCKING SHILL CUNTS

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>nyet comrade Vlad there is a plane on the radar
>comrade it's yellow that's bad?
>it say BOGEY
>comrade, what is bogey?
>did you ever watch Top Gun?
>dah I have recorded VHS of it
>the bogeys kill the Gooseman
>fire fire fire bogey mean bad guy

>>32568310
>>32566262

The video has been created more than a day before the crash. You can dl it from youtube and check it yourself. Nice try tho.

>>32568302
Read the thread m8, all the evidence supports the "drunk rebels did it" theory. The rebels have Russian support.

>>32568369
>he doesn't know how to time zones.

>>32568283

They could do anything they want with this. From brutal embargos on Russia to actually openly supporting Kiev with weapons to all the way to actual NATO involvement in Ukraine. It's only a matter what the West wants.

>>32567864
>>32568008
says on the page in a disclaimer that statements by strelkov are bracketed. the statement about the an-26 yesterday was not bracketed just a blurb including the red herring 'strelkov' quote 'told you to stay out of our airspace'. it was simply a mistake.

The downing of MH17 was the main story on the front pages of most of most newspapers around the world on Friday, but not Russia, writes Shaun Walker.

>The state-run Rossiiskaya Gazeta led with a story about the eating habits of Russians, relegating the 298 deaths aboard MH17 to the bottom of the front page.

>Other Russian newspapers led with stories about US sanctions on Russia, including the respected Vedomosti, in what was either a strange editorial decision or a conscious plan to play down an attack that much of the world was already linking to Russia.

>State television reported the incident, but claimed that it was Ukrainian army missiles that shot down the plane.

>Channel One on Friday said the Russian Defence Ministry had spotted missile radar activity in Ukraine on Thursday.

>More outlandish theories, such as the idea that the plane’s red-white-blue colouring had meant that the Ukrainians mistook it for Vladimir Putin’s presidential jet and thus shot it out of the sky, were jetisonned after an initial airing.

>The Russian Twittersphere was awash with conspiracy theories about Ukrainian or even US involvement in the downing of the plane. The boss of the Kremlin’s English-language television channel, Russia Today, wrote on Twitter that she despaired of people jumping to conclusions about what had really happened, shortly after retweeting an opinion saying that Ukrainian “freaks” were behind the attack but would attempt to blame pro-Russian rebels.

>>32568302

lolwut?

Unless they shot a missile a few hundred kms, or you suggest they stealthfully heli-dropped a Buk and crew and then picked them up again from hostile rebel-held territory? lol

>>32567670

that video was of one of the jets shot down a few days before, the video was uploaded to youtube first on tuesday or wednesday i think

>>32568400
>>he doesn't know how to time zones.

It's the videofile parameter, not youtube upload time. They had enough brains to get the latter correct.

>>32568323
>google Strelkov social media -MH17 -Malaysia -plane
>no results support post whatsoever
Into the RIDF lies pile it goes.

The video of supposed buk system with missing missile is under investigation by Ukrainan authorities to confirm if its authentic. (And propably half of the other intel agencies across the world)

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I really hope every country in the world is forced to stop trading with russia as punishment for giving those redards AA-weapons

>no trading with russia
>no oil form russia
>oil prises will dubble
>norways oil-income will dubble

norway still has huge oil reserves that we didn't strip for oil for envioremental reasons(Lofoten and Vesterållen).

Norwegian masterrace

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Soooooo...TWO BLACK BOXES??????

>>32568325
what are you talking about? you must be one of these employees working for a Kremlin PR agency that we've seen shitposting all over the internet. All Russian IP addresses should be banned on this board forever.

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>>32568040
>No radar in the world does that, especially not one from the 1980s
Air traffic control radar shot.
Notice the info next to the returns. That's the transponder signal from the aircraft, identifying who they are.

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>>32568427
Check all footage of all MH-17 crash images that exist on youtube. For example, the videos that people have uploaded from RT and from other channels that show the burning wreckage, also carry an 'encoded date' which is from before the crash happened.

It's some sort of Youtube peculiarity, I think, and not anything to do with the uploaders of the videos.

>>32567686
Holy fuck that's an old machine.

>>32568302
you don't need to be "soldier" just well trained

>>32566660
>Quoting RT

Are you mentally ill?

>>32568508
Too bad BUK launcher's own radar only shows a simple dot.

>>32568518
Youtube's time is 11:59 of 18th July. Yup, that's probably USA timezone. However, the video's metadata is July, 16th, 19:10. It is a date, when the video was rendered in its creator's PC, which can't really be USA timezone (unless it was made by CIA, of course).

>>32568285
find anything?

>>32568546
>quoting western media
Are you mentally retarded?

>>32568536

soviet gear powerful gear
still able to shoot down most fighter jets , not to mention a boeing

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Alright, the considering of theories has gone on long enough. As suggested time and time again here, the perpetrators are:
Pro-Russian separatists in the Donetsk area.
Motive: Mistaken for a Ukrainian military/transport plane.

With all that out of the way, we have to move on to the next part of the discussion. What will happen as a result of this incident? Nothing? Everything? Will Putin back down? Will Obama step up? Now that the separatists have killed a few hundred people from uninvolved countries, something has to happen here.

Also, what should happen? What would be the best result for all those involved?

>>32568551
Which supports the 'drunken russian idiots shoot down a plane which later turns out to be a civilian one' theory.

>>32568536
not really, from 1984

so not the newest but really not that old for military gear

>>32568369
But that's not true, Vladimir. Make a video yourself, upload it to youtube, download it from youtube and see what the encoded and tagged dates say.

>>32568614
Faking audio files has never been easier.

>>32568614
nothing will happen, the area seems pretty lawless so that's that.

>>32568449
hows the immigration thing in norway?

>>32568283
Bullshit, it's not obvious at all shekelberg. There has been no investigation or anything only propaganda from Kiev.
You all just can't help but illuminate yourselves can you.

>>32568614
>Pro-Russian separatists in the Donetsk area.
>Motive: Mistaken for a Ukrainian military/transport plane.

guis, this proof that the ukranian government released totally says its the rebels
must be true

>>32566483

the footage at 0:12 onwards is national airlines flight 102.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Airlines_Flight_102

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z7GkV5DqOI

>>32567812
>Russians are really good when it comes to strict adherence to ROE.
nice lying there, fuckface

>>32568418
That's a lie. The Russian media is all over the thing. State TV did not claim Ukrainian army missiles shot down the plane.

>>32568573
Or the user didn't have the right time set on the computer. The video is fake because those Russians have Ukrainian accents. The time set on a PC isn't reliable for anything.

>>32568608
Are you serious?
This old piece of shit from 1984 can still shoot down modern fighters?
How about stealth like a stealth bomber?

>>32568051
>>everything is false flag
>Everyone knows there's no other countries, we're all just being experimented on blah, blah, yadda-yadda, spew, regurgitate...

When you want to take over the Ukraine to isolate Russia from its natural gas pipelines to Europe, as well as its major warm-water port, then you use whatever means necessary (including fomenting a revolution, funding through your organization CANVAS) to do so.
And false-flag attacks are clearly the order of the day, as was shown with the failed FF gas "attack" they tried to blame on Assad, as well as the many attempted and successful FF attacks throughout the years, like the failed attack on the U.S.S. Liberty by the Jews.

If you think FF attacks don't happen routinely, then you've not been paying attention.

>>32568614
You can't really say, it will be intresting though.