Why does /pol/ hate it?

>>135632276
Dudes a fucking scammer. You're legitimately retarded if you think that making massive lithium ion batteries saves us carbon footprint or innovates battery technology. You should buy one though so you die in a firey crash like the fucktard you are.

Same reason /o/ hates it.
How is this related to politics
Go bait /o/

>>135632400
>liquid imam shill detected

>>135632276
>die in a firey crash

"Independent testing by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has awarded the Tesla Model S a 5-star safety rating, not just overall, but in every subcategory without exception. Approximately one percent of all cars tested by the federal government achieve 5 stars across the board. NHTSA does not publish a star rating above 5, however safety levels better than 5 stars are captured in the overall Vehicle Safety Score (VSS) provided to manufacturers, where the Model S achieved a new combined record of 5.4 stars."


You're more likely to die in a fiery crash in literally any other car on the planet.

Faggot.

>>135632478
I can't wait until this happens to your face, retarded faggot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAZ62tUtc0w

They're shit cars but you won't hear about it on the internet because Tesla voids your warranty if you talk shit about owning one.

talk to someone that actually owns one.

>>135632624
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifaH7uzkMT8
Cool story cock sucker.

>>135632669
Hahaha fuck off, how can they do that?

>>135632624
NHTSA doesn't test cars with the batteries installed fyi.

>>135632276
If you take subsidies from the government you aren't an entrepreneur, you're a leech and a parasite.
Also this shit is as harmful to the environment as fossil fuel.

Hybrids > Cars with high fuel efficiency ratings > Full electric at this point if you care about green transportation and don't want to have a meme car.

>>135632751
It's in the purchase contract.

Ferrari does the same thing.

>>135632751
When you buy it you sigh the contract.

Only environment faggots like them

>>135632857
:^)

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>>135632276
>paying $70k for an unremarkable sedan that takes hours to refuel and whose gas tank shrinks every month

>>135632725
that's why it's a test-drive you moron. It's perfectly normal for test drives to go wrong, that's where and when a company finds the mistakes in their test car. Now please explain me a system where you try to push boundaries without anything ever going wrong...

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Honda once made a car called the Civic VX that achieved 45 city and 55+ mpg highway with a lean burning regular gas motor.

Hybrids are bullshit. Car companies are purposely making cars with shit gas mileage to sell you a hybrid that will need an expensive battery replacement every 5-10 years.

>>135632276

They have payed shills (evangelists) everywhere.

That shit triggers me.

>>135633030
Hybrids are actually becoming cheaper and cheaper over time. When the first came out I can understand your argument but for city and bumper to bumper traffic they work wonders.

Tesla would NOT even exist if it were not for government gibs
No one would BUY a Tesla if it weren't for government gibs

The faggot crawled in Obama's pocket and got green to be "green"
This was the government picking a winner and making who THEY want rich

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wtf were they thinking?

>>135632943
>gasoline catches fire the second it comes in contact with metal
I know Tesla shills have no real understanding of chemistry but lol

>>135633001
>that's where and when a company finds the mistakes in their test car.
You can't "fix" the chemical reaction of LiIon touching fragments of metal.

>>135633030
for inner city driving hybrids make a lot of sense because of reg breaking. It's why cab companies use them

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>>135632937
correction, it's actually $158k with the premium options
FOR
A
MEME
CAR

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>>135632276
I like it because YouTube videos show it destroying regular cars
And RCR says it's rad

>durrr mining batteries
Who the fuck actually cares?
>durrr carbon footprint (yuppie talk)
Who the fuck actually cares?

Some people have such a hate boner for electric cars that I just don't understand
It's just a fucking car
My alcoholic step father always points out how you can't work on them yourself as if new production cars aren't already like that
Cars are just gay now

>>135632276
I've seen a disturbing amount of those things near the coast in southern sweden. Seems to be the hip thing to waste a whole bunch of money on.

>>135632635
>based on U.S. automobile miles-per-fire statistics from the National Fire Protection Association, a driver is "5 times more likely to experience a fire in a conventional gasoline car than a Tesla."

Because the "Tesla", which is an insult to it's namesake, can only survive on government welfare.

>>135633874
How many Teslas are out there VS a regular car?

How did they come up with that statistic?

From what pool?

>>135633328
You can buy a brand new, fully optioned out Masterati for less than that.

>>135634421
Maserati.
I can't spell.

>>135632276
>HAVING CRITICISMS OF SOMETHING IS HATING IT OMG HATE CRIME HATE CRIME DRUMPF DRUMPF DRUMPF DRUMPF DRUMPF DRUMPF DRUMPF
Why do leftists see the world in such a pathetic black and white way?

People who buy electric cars now are guinea pigs. Wait a few years until a real car company makes one and then buy

>>135633226
Where is the speedometer, tacometer, and fuel gauge?

>>135634779
On that iPad they glued to the dash.

>>135634054
Do you have any evidence to show that Tesla didn't take measures against fire? I mean the batteries are underfoot and part of the frame so actually breaching them is pretty damn hard. Add some carbon aerogel to keep the flames away and the lithium batteries aren't more dangerous than gasoline.

>>135634991
What are you supposed to do when some nigger smashes in your window and steals the ipad?

Anon thinks that the 35,000 dollar car is going to be a hit

I love electric cars. However, I am waiting for them to add a generator to automatically charge the battery while I drive it.

>>135634779
It drives itself.

>>135635199
they do have regenerative braking

>>135633001
So exploding fireballs are just a normal part of working out a vehicle's kinks? Aright cool, good thing the model 3 is getting extensive beta testing in then, they'll definitely fix those issues before they go to production.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1110203_manufacturing-expert-says-tesla-model-3-plan-to-skip-beta-testing-is-risky

Oh wait...

>>135635314
Cool on the regenerative brakes. A little gas powered generator to extend the range would be awesome. I wonder if I could patent such an invention.

>>135635447
Check out fisker, on board diesel generation for a purely electric drivetrain. Fast as fuck, efficient as fuck, no range limitations

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>>135633226
Ugly desu

>>135635447
That's called every hybrid for the last 50 years

>>135635447
Chevy Volt already exists.

>>135633030
>Lightweight
>Lelsafetywut
>No AC

True tho

>uses electricity to run
>electricity comes from burning coal
>"HURR HURR LOOK AT ME I'M SO GREEN I FART OXYGEN!"

Fuck Tesla, Musk took the intellectual low road. "I can't efficiently create an electric car that doesn't suck, so instead I'll put auto gullwings, a Corvette body, and a tensorflow program on a tablet and market it to rich people for 200k and take Gov't money for "saving the environment""

>>135633122
Literally then only thing hybrids do that isn't snakeoil is regenerative braking. Unless it's a plug in hybrid and you only take short trips so you can keep it on electric. The earlier hybrids were snakeoil mobiles.

>>135632788
>NHTSA doesn't test cars with the batteries installed
yeah? then how do they take into account all the crash prevention software? and breaking times? even crash tests require a filled tank in gasoline cars

you wrote

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars-tesla-reliability-doesnt-match-its-high-performance/

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I don't personally hate them, and if I had the money to spare I'd definitely buy one. I don't care about the environmental aspect of things, I just want the sport-car like driving combined with all the really neat technological components like autopilot and adaptive cruise control. Also if you get the Model S with the sound package you can have the best music experience possible while driving, because there's no engine noise to introduce noise inside the cabin.
Pretty great desu. I just wish the company was actually profitable and not some subsidy money sink. I love the idea of the car and want all those gadgets, but I fucking hate Musk's business model of stringing along investors with the hope that the company will one day be viable, meanwhile existing thanks to corporate welfare.

>>135633226
>tfw you don't know where you are or how fast you're driving because your wife's son is too busy playing with the tablet

>>135633328
>>135632937
pennyless polaczki crying about a car for civilized nations

>>135635879
>>135635890
I guess sarcasm is lost on this board. Yeah no shit! If electric cars were first and widely used for the last 50 years and the gas engine was just invented as a generator for our electric cars. Then everyone would not want a purely electric car. Even generator kits would be sold.
A pure electric car is just stupid when you can buy a car that has an attached generator that charges its battery.

>>135633226

i want a blank white pod with no steering wheel and gender fluid clones rubbing my chest and genitals as my pod slides laterally through a tunnel of mineral oil

>>135632857
Sauce on this? There's the thing they were doing with additional NDAs for discounted repairs, but i couldn't find anything in the original contract

>>135632857
Talk about jew-tricks!)

>>135632276
They're too expensive for the poor performance they offer.

Worse around the track than an ecoboost Mustang.

>>135636365
Mineral oil is so old fashioned.

>>135632635

I don't get your point.

You've seen what happens when someone lights petrol, right? It also happens to make fire.

>>135636041
Unless you have solar panels on your garage. If you've got the money to blow on a Tesla I'm sure you can drop another several grand on solar panels to charge some batteries to charge the car overnight

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>giving up control of your vehicle to a CIA compromised botnet
100% bluepilled.

>>135636452
A lithium battery need only be breached while charged to ignite. Whereas gasoline is actually difficult to ignite by comparison. You can put a cigarette out in a pool of gasoline.

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>>135636365
Buckle up buckaroo it's coming

>>135636254
the impact tests are not done with batteries installed. The cars are not on during these tests. They are pulled by a tow line into the target.

Nikola Tesla was already screwed over in his own lifetime by assholes who had politicians in their pockets.
Now another rent seeker is capitalising off his name.

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>>135636469
>Spending enough money to buy a reasonably priced car to buy batteries to charge your other batteries

>>135632276
Because it's a meme, Tesla to cars is like Starbucks to coffee

>>135632276
it can't exist without free money from government so it's useless, kind of like our medical system

>>135636350
see
>>135634421

>>135632400
>making massive lithium ion batteries saves us carbon footprint

you will never get the energy it takes to make these back out of them

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It's just really overhyped. I'm glad to see that electric car technology is advancing right now but it's really limited. Incentives for electric car tech are crazy out of bounds in the US and abroad.

There are not enough superchargers to go around. It takes 30 minutes to charge a car to 80%. This means that where there are superchargers, Tesla owners will line up. If there are four guys ahead of you, you're looking at two hours BEFORE you can start charging, and then 30 minutes to get a useful charge. A gas fill would take 4 minutes for far more range and then you just go, and rarely do you have to wait for a pump.

Charging at home helps with this but depending on where you live, the equivalent electric can be expensive, potentially more expensive than gas.

I think the biggest meme is that Tesla has horrible unintuitive interfaces (giant tablets? seriously?) and massively underwhelming interiors. The Model S is an $80,000 car with the interior of a $30,000 car. They hired a guy from Volvo to try to address this but this didn't impact the Model S or Model 3 yet.

The cars have nothing to do with Tesla tech. If you read their promos they brag about it having the "same alternating current invented by Tesla." But alternating current is in literally everything, from toasters to power plants.

>>135632276
something, something, globalism, something

>>135636733
We landed a man on the moon why can't we disobey the law of conservation?

I would much rather have an electric vehicle or any environmentally friendly car. but Tesla is just electric cars marketed to hipsters, people like Nissan have been innovating and helping the planet. Tesla has just been conning hipsters and pseudo intellectuals (and also pseudo environmentalists; hey guys I drive a Tesla, but ignore my 3 kids, they have like 0 carbon footprint amirite?)

>>135636852 here
Fuck, look at the model 3. They were too cheap or stupid to put a traditional speedo, and just put it on the corner of the screen. Now you have to look away from the road. Other cars in its price area will have a HUD as an option or standard so you have it in front of you. Not the model 3 in its sterile, boring as fuck, minimalist interior with a serious lack of real buttons.

On EV in general, >>135636733
is right, the materials to make modern batteries are toxic af and the impact of mining them is bad, but it's in areas of the world we don't see. Similarly, no tailpipe emissions, but a lot of electric still comes from coal and other dirty sources, so you're just moving the emissions to be generated from somewhere else..

>>135632276
Because lefties love it (I assume) and /pol/ is one person.

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>>135636469
>solar panels
>to charge the car overnight

>>135632473
I was drinking Elon koolaid daily until the faggot chimped out when Trump pulled out of the Paris climate deal and jizzed all over the globalist's face.

>>135637042
the model 3 is built to drive itself, what do you need a speedo for?

Sure it will take a few years for legal reasons, but by the time you and I can afford that car that is what we will use it for

There is only two main chunks of the energy equation for a vehicle, (weight * acceleration). Once expanded, you see factors such as fighting drag with aerodynamics, minimizing loss of power during delivery to wheels, etc.

Tesla takes steps to INCREASE weight, (fancy interior, gull wing mechanisms), and boasts of it's acceleration speed mostly predicated on watts consumed maximally. The bells and whistles in Tesla's have already been done in concept cars and the race circuit, Tesla empirically brings nothing to the table new except a brand, and a hipster production facility.

>>135636363
> I guess sarcasm is lost on this board.
just for the record, I was playing along

>>135637352
It's going to be a "few years" before the 3 is even commercially produced, much less driving itself.

>>135637643
Tesla is fucked for not having the model 3 to market already since pretty much all the major automakers now have entry-level electric cars in their lineup.

>>135636363
Sorry bro, you never know on this board these days.

>>135635182
Guess

>>135633522
True. Was in the market for a new car and couldn't find a single one that was possible to work on myself. Even Kia and other garbage have plates over the engine block.

If you want a car you can serice yourself, better get an older model now!

>taxpayer subsidies for upper middle class/high end cars
What's not to hate?

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>>135637213
>solar panels to charge some batteries to charge the car overnight

Batteries charge all day, car charges off of batteries all night
Retard

>>135636677
I never said it was a good idea or a smart investment. However, such a setup would remove the coal component from the car and thus reduce the carbon footprint (which is a meme anyway)

Heh, /pol/ is talking about my employer again. Y-you guys like us right?

>>135637773
>plates over the engine block
wat.
I've never seen this.

>>135636587
That sounds like a non representative test of real world conditions.

Are the batteries to expensive to use during testing?

Its a crony capitalism welfare fraud. So what a car comes out. Nothing of value is created by welfare.

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>>135637840
Sorry I am mildly triggered from being forced to buy 6 grand in batteries for muh business.

>>135637840
How many panels are you buying that they'll charge your meme to a usable percentage on a single day's collection. How's the climate, that this collection will always be more than was used that day?

>>135632276
the petrol car company shills hate them apart from that everyone likes them.

>>135638317
>pointing out the disadvantages and flaws in current electric cars makes you a "petrol car company shill"
reddit I...

>>135636890
That's because we haven't tapped into the paradox particles yet.

Either the big bang came from nothing or was always there. (Or God, Gods, The Force, etc., if you prefer.)

So either there are eternal things in the universe or something can indeed come from nothing. Whatever process allowed the big bang to exist at all has yet to be discovered.

>>135632276
Their owners think they're God's gift to planet Earth

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>>135638164
Idk nigger I haven't actually done this nor do I ever plan on doing it. I was merely pointing out that it's possible to have a fully fossil fuel free Tesla if someone was so inclined

>>135638317
Also to add to this, you're a fucking retard. Literally all the major manufacturers offer full electric vehicles now. There is no "petrol car company" and long before all the major companies experimented with alternative fuel technologies.
Fucking muskfags need to neck themselves.

>>135638516
Imagine how much diesel was burned to mine the materials. How many tons of coal were required to power the plants that produced the panels.

>>135632857
Seems like a violation of the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act.

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>>135638516
A battery isn't like a gasoline tank. You can dribble fuel slowly into a gas tank and it will fill up all the way, but as you charge a battery it "pushes back" and you have to be able to charge harder than the battery is "pushing" in order to charge it. Trickle charging a battery will not charge it fully.

>>135632635
You know, gasoline also burns.

>>135638095
Shit, what for?

>>135638164
someone did the math
http://news.energysage.com/what-does-it-cost-to-charge-a-tesla-with-solar-energy/

basically, you would need 30 250 watt panels (standard for home installs) to charge the tesla enough to do 25 miles of driving per day.

>>135638662
Yeah, so? Gas cars use the same fucking products, so the carbon footprint of making a gas car is the same as an electric car. Thebinly difference is that the gas car continues to create a carbon footprint after it's conception

Kys

>>135638776
So? Build a large enough battery bank and put up enough solar panels and you've overcome the issue you're describing

>>135638979
Well that's fucking garbage. Tesla is shit
Where are the gas cars with all the tech features of Tesla but none of the meme?

>>135635199
Are you waiting for moto perpetual cars?
I have a bad news for you...

>>135639099
And when you're done mining all that lead for your deep cycle batteries and blacking out a huge swath of land with solar collectors the environment will thank you for not burning a comparatively trivial amount of gasoline right?

>>135638918
Emergency ventilation backup power supply for a room that has "le dangerous chemicals"

>>135639162
which features are we talking about, the autopilot?
the automation in driving features are being tested to hell right now, I expect you'll see more of it in early 2020.

tesla is putting out a feature with beta quality into the hands of people with a disclaimer, most automakers aren't going to bear that risk.

>>135639354
A lot of the necessary sensor technologies for auto driving cars already is prolific across current model year vehicles. They just haven't put it all together and given it a carte blanche to control the vehicles. But fucking everything is drive-by-wire on cars these days. And all of the sensors are there on some models. It's literally all up to the AI at this point.

>>135632276
>it is one million times more better for environment, ten-thousand times more fashionable, and 875% more complicated to actually service

Why can't liberals be satisfied with things that work?

>>135639293
At lest you are not buying gasoline from the jew. Only batteries from the chinaman.

>>135632276

Electrical cars are just not practical yet.

We need a massive breakthrough in energy storage technology as well as transmission for them to realistically replace chemical energy storage solutions.

>>135639537
gasoline has trended down in price over the last few years. Peak oil seems to get further away every year and now there is competition on the market with EVs, which means gasoline will probably only go down in the future. With lithium being the first viable alternative to the gasoline jew I could easily say you are paying the lithium jew.

>>135639485
yeah, i mean, a lot of cars already have radar (blindspot detection) and use laser for the automatic cruise control/pre-collision braking mitigation system/pedestrian traffic, cameras for lane keeping system, etc... it's up to the software to control it.

i'm really curious to see how well self driving cars handle the roads of new york. faint/lack of road lines, narrow roads, lots of potholes, etc.. Nothing like driving around southern california.

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>>135632276
The cars and brand just seem for faggot liberal dudes who Want to see they're into cars meanwhile they could give a shit. It's most impressing their other effeminate cuck pals. For the money I'd buy a E90 and spend the rest on guns/ammo.

>>135639047
Electric cars consume electricity, which is produced by coal plants primarily.

>>135639603
We need hydrogen

>>135639603
For most people's daily routines a Nissan Leaf's 100 mile range is more than adequate. I don't get why people are still spewing this tired old horseshit about electric cars when every automaker now offers purely electric cars.

>>135632276

> company that looses billions every(! single) year and lives entirely off of taxpayer money basically.

Why hate it ? Hmmmmmmmm...

>>135639665
Oh god, please, not this meme.

>>135632400
savage
/thread

>>135639657
Can be produced from wind mills, dams, and other sources.

Still, gas cars create a bigger carbon footprint. You can't argue this. I'm not saying electric cars are innocent, because obviously they are not, but they're still better than gas

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>>135632276

Because he is a scamming faggot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5V_VzRrSBI

>>135639760
And are the wind mills made out of organic hemp fiber by Amish farmers?

>>135639706
Meme? How is it a meme? I know people who have worked on this technology and it is 100% viable

>>135632276
Besides the subsidies?
Besides the failed promises?
Besides the absolutely hideous SUV?

Look at that logo and tell me that doesn't look like a uterus.

>>135639818
They use a finite amount of shit to produce unlimited energy. You have to be retarded to think that creating one turbine is somehow equal to a car burning fucking gas for 25 years

>>135639621
There is a catch., You are right in not trust lithium batteries right now (or even solar panels). But the demand will improve both tech, and fuel motors already reach their limit by now. Gasoline is dead. Diesel will survive a little bit longer because the demand from long travel trucks (you can't move a truck with batteries, not without double his weight).

Also, in few years, government will tax the sun. Just because fuck you.

>>135632276
Huge scam.
Tesla cars tend to fall appart after 4-5 years since all parts are not welded together or anything like that, they are GLUED together.
Also the fact like 90% of this kike's money is from world climate deals, getting rich by virtue signaling

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>>135632276

lmao at both testa and normal cars. I drive a little 50cc moped car, diesel. Costs me 8 euro's a month. It's warm, comfy and plenty of luggage space. No road taxes, no expensive car insurance, no mandatory checkups, nothing. Top speed is 60 km/u tho, but as a city car its perfect.

>>135633328
idk why anyone would anyone buy this meme peice of shit when you can buy a 2012 GTR for 70-80k.

>>135639892
>unlimited energy
The laws of physics disagree.
They are capturing mechanical energy from low-level air currents and then using that energy to power devices which eventually bleed off all that energy in the form of waste heat. More heat, less air moving. I'm pretty sure that's the problem they are professing to solve right there.

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>>135639688
the problem is that a pure electric car then only becomes practical as a second/third/fourth/etc. vehicle in the household. anytime you have to go on a road trip (work, pleasure, etc.) then you would have to rent a car or use another vehicle in the household.

or drive more than 50 miles one way to a location where a charger is not available. a lot of americans live more than 50 miles from the nearest airport and not all airports with onsite/offsite parking offer chargers.

also other things can impact range. heat is largely a byproduct of the engine in a gas car, whereas in an electric car it is severely punishing to the range. this is not a problem with the leaf or volt or tesla alone but electric cars by nature: if we don't have the cabin heat as a byproduct then we need to use energy (battery power) to generate it. and generating heat from electricity uses a lot of power.

>>135639851
Looks kinda phallic to me...

>>135639892
Even disregarding the environmental impact of windmills, they're too inconsistent to be reliable on their own and improving this with massive batteries would not only increase the cost tremendously, but definitely harm the environment more than cars already have.

>>135640150
The laws of physics disagree with your thought process. You think building one turbine is equal to a car burning gas for over 1.5 decades or more. You're literally retarded and should Kys

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>>135639760
Windmills and hydro are tiny comparatively and are severely limited by location. Not to mention the space they consume. They do not account for a major portion of current energy production, and this is unlikely to change in the future.
Can you provide evidence that by the long and short of it, electric cars are "cleaner" than gas?

>>135640125
>proud of his diesel-sipping cuckmobile with which he uses to drive his girlfriend to jamal's place
your flag checks out

>>135639929
Gasoline is far from dead. Diesel engines require forced induction and much more robust materials and construction. Gasoline vehicles will always be there due to having a lower cost of entry. You can
>MUH LESS MAINTENANCE
until you're blue in the face with electrics but most consumers don't have the luxury of factoring in 5 year ownership costs and instead are focused on the immediate cost.
I think Gasoline Diesel and EV will be side by side in the market for a few decades, baring some unforseen breakthrough in EV tech.
Gasoline engines are also far from reaching their peak of technological refinement, like in the pipe for future gasoline engines is camless engines, Keunigsegg and BMW already have functioning camless engines on the market. And a camless engine smooths out the performance disadvantages that a gasoline engine has vs. EV big time.

>>135639929
gas is not dead because gas has a huge existing investment and you can add hundreds of miles of range in mere minutes versus hours with a pump. batteries in cars don't last forever. a lot of gasoline cars can last for tens of thousands of miles.

the batteries are only warrantied for under 100,000 miles (leaf is only 36,000 miles), if they go up it's many thousands of dollars for a new battery, basically rendering the car an effective total loss if it's more than four or five years old. the first leafs were warrantied longer to 60,000 miles or five years (whichever happened first) for 60 percent coverage. basically, if you lost 40 percent of your battery capacity after 60,000 miles, then that was considered normal. Anything more and they would replace the battery in warranty.

suddenly after 60,000 miles your 107 mile range is now a 65 mile range. you turn on the heat and that becomes a 45-50 mile range.

not so great anymore.

>>135640388
Please tell me which law of physics I am breaking. Because you said unlimited energy
You literally are arguing against the most fundamental law of nature. You should shut the fuck up now. You are out of your league brainlet.

>>135632276
Anyone have any actual science on the carbon footprint of Lithium ion Batteries used in the Telsas?

Sounds like a meme echo chamber in here.

>>135640150
No, that doesn't follow. More heat means more air currents. Heat is one of the driving forces for weather.

>>135640225
Also, you're only going to get that range if you do ecodriving. Pelting down the highway at 70-80mph is gonna cost you loads of range, and it just so happens that the speed limit is 'a very vigorous 70mph', at least in the UK.
My dad's boss drives a Model S and commends it, he got the biggest range available at the time (400km) thinking he could take it across the country on business and show off, but found that the return voyage was impossible even though he charged up during the business bit. The distance shouldn't have been a problem, but then he did drive at 70-80mph like literally everyone else.

This is the achillesheel of electric cars. The range is estimated with the most efficient driving style in mind, not the actual driving style of people.

By the by that same boss considered leasing a bunch of electric vans for his workers thinking that 100km of range would do fine, but decided not to when he learned they were driving over 120km a day just going from site to site. (construction)

>>135640726
Fuck off Elon Internet Defense Force.

>>135638875
Gasoline doesn't burn on contact with oxygen

>>135637840
per watt, solar has a larger environmental footprint than coal

t. salty engineering grad that still works at a bottlo

>>135640412
What you have against diesel cars?
Gasoline cars are only popular in America because the jews.

>>135640530
I agree and disagree.
Gasoline will still be around for a decade. But better batteries, and the next gasoline shortage (you are new. never lived a age where gasoline triple the price and everything became insane expensive) will popularize electric cars.
Electric cars are shit right now, but they will became better and better. You will be driving one in your lifetime!

Also, i kind like Elon. Hope he nukes mars and colonize the hell out there. I only hope he keep niggers away from mars (since he was born in SA and flew the country).

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>>135640412

That diesel's usage is 1:30 mind you. And for some reason, chicks love it. You won't believe how many i've picked up over the years become of that hing... If you can't drive a spanking new BMW, dont go for cheaper generic shit like Opel or Fiat... go for a speedino; chicks love that weird, "authentic", fuck the world stuff. I'm totally serious.

>>135640815
>hurr heat is everything
Wrong. The key driving force of weather is DIFFERENTIALS in temperature and pressure. More heat = more weather is a second law violation. More heat means more entropy which means less overall differential. You might get a bigger storm over buttfuck kentucky but overall rainfall across the entire globe will necessarily decrease.
There is no such thing as free energy. The inescapable reality is that our modern highly energetic way of life is in and of itself unsustainable. No magical hipster technology is going to change that fact.

>>135640974
I hate to say it but that's a personal anecdote.

>>135640845
So you can't back up your claims... Got it.

>>135641021
It looks as though someone took a Smart Roadster, tried to give it the face of a Rolls-Royce while keeping it cheap. Makes it look aggressive and cute at the same time, like a Chihuahua.
No wonder girls like it.

>>135641117
No, you're just literally popping in without actually catching up the entire thread and posting the same old
>HAH, GOTCHA
garbage that we've read a thousand times here.
You aren't being smart. You aren't bringing constructive discussion to this thread. You're just being a fucking shitposter and virtue signalling faggot that belongs on tumblr.
#CutForElon

>>135640974
Of course, you need to mine it, ship the ore, refine it, ship it again, build the panels, ship it again, buy it, ship it again and then finally install it.
The idea behind being pro solar panel, is push the manufactures to compete and build better and better ones.

>>135640984
There never has been a legitimate gasoline shortage. It's always Arab oil monopolies throwing a tantrum. And since then the technology to extract oil from bitumen and shale has come along. So the Arab oil monopolies have thrown a tantrum in the opposite direction now. They are in a position now where they can only hold on to their monopoly by pricing shale oil out of the market.

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>>135632937

This, also hippies are often under impression that the Teslas run on this air, as if Elon was collecting butterfly poops, turning them into rainbow which is being pumped into cars, and after the car dies it serves as a food to unicorns.

Truth is that electricity isn't as green as Elon Musk would like people to believe. Instead of wasting money on the overpriced wanna-be rainbow maker you can buy a normal car for half the price and spend the remaining money on hippie charities which will help the nature infinitely more.

>walking downtown and see tesla model X parked in handicapped spot without handicap permit
>lookup city bylaw enforcement number
>give location of offender
>sit down to get a drink at cafe at seat with window facing tesla
>see by-law officer ticket the tesla
>wait for owner
>owner comes out of noodle shop losing his mind when he grabs ticket

$300 fine get rekt

>>135641266
solar currently is terrible. About 20% efficient for the really efficient ones. Theres a few tricks you can do like install mirrors to shine more sunlight onto the panel, but in general you are stuck at ~20%. It will take decades before panels made from layered 2D materials are cheap enough to manufacture efficiently, and then we are only talking 50-60% efficiency.

Coal is by far the best choice, at least for the next few decades.

>>135641447
>There never has been a legitimate gasoline shortage
Let me tell you a history.
>1973
>partition of Palestine
>Israel go full jew
>arabs ask for a decent partition
>usa say no
>arabs go into oil embargo
>Vietnam war requires oil
>usa kill arab king

You had no idea what a petrol shortage looks like. Everything is transported by trucks and everything became expensive. My country got into huge debts because we need to subsidize petrol so the country would not starve.

>>135641231

i think you might be on to something mate. Also, whenever i pick some \female up, i deliberatly play "sail" by awolnation on the radio. Add a bit of independant "hispter" feel to it... works every fucking time.

Females are npc's.

>>135641251
Read through the thread, not a single fucking anon provides any data around carbon foot print, just HUUUUR MINING IT CAUSES CARBON!

So kindly please go fuck yourself or provide some sort of evidence, reference, source or article that backs up this bullshit.

See the following:
>that production of a 100 kWh battery—Tesla's biggest—produces 17.5 tons of carbon dioxide
>Audi A8 4.0, another quick AWD sedan. According to the EPA, that car emits 6.2 metric tons
>http://www popularmechanics com/cars/hybrid-electric/news/a27039/tesla-battery-emissions-study-fake-news/

So in 3 years, the Tesla would have saved it's carbon footprint over the Audi, it would have saved fucking 19.7 tons.

Did you know Tesla was a Russian dude?

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>>135641652
You're doing Gods work, anon.

>>135641830
That's my point. The 1973 oil embargo was caused by the Arab states pulling their oil off the market. Except they no longer have that option because the west has fuckloads of proven oil reserves now thanks to advances in oil extraction. And that's why oil prices are depressed right now. Because the Arab states are trying to kill off the shale industry by pricing oil too low.
Prior to the effects of the oil embargo oil was 20 dollars a barrel around 1973, which adjusted to inflation is about 110 USD per barrel. Oil prices are currently less than half that.
Oil is undervalued as fuck right now. And if the price goes back up that just makes all the big oil plays in North America economically viable which will stabilize the oil supply pretty fast.
The days of oil politics are pretty much winding down now. The turbulence in the oil industry is all artificially manufactured by environmentalists now, but even then with every environmental doomsday that fails to come people become increasingly less trusting of environmentalists.

>>135632276
>an autist becomes a tech millionaire
>guy says he won't stop, and ten years later, guy has become a self-taught rocket scientist and becomes a multibillionaire turned industrialist
>single-handedly transforms the electric car industry, competitors on suicide watch
>every other year announces new megalomanic projects that so far have turned out to be unimaginable successes
The man is a God and everything these autists wish they could be. What's not to hate?

>>135632937
>tesla model 3 charges to 100% in about 35 mins at a supercharger
>can charge it at home, overnight, in the parking lot, wherever theres a charger (which can be basically anywhere)
>only 8% battery degredation after 100,000 miles, even less if you use it sensibly
>starting $35,000, not the cheapest car in the world but hey
>"hurr its an enviro-hippy car", Model 3 0-60mph in 5.6 seconds, Model S 0-60mph in 2.7 seconds
>battery tech only getting better while consumer internal-combustion cars stagnate
>electricity only getting cheaper and more available while oil dries up

but its alright, keep sucking saudi oilcock if it makes you happy :)

>>135642059
>hurr THIS IS DISINGENUOUS
>LET'S CALCULATE THIS BASED ON EVERYONE DAILYING AN AUDI A8 BECAUSE THIS TOTALLY ISN'T DISINGENUOUS
You're literally retarded.
The median personal income in the US is 26 grand. Almost nobody drives an audi A8 in the grand scheme of things.

>>135642410
I work with industrial batteries you faggot. I can assure you that they degrade exponentially. So they might be "only 8%" degraded after 100,000 miles, but I can assure you they will be a lot more than 16% degraded after 200,000 miles. (pro tip: they won't make it).

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>>135632276
The only reason this company exists is because of huge government hand outs.

Every Burger who see's some well then off faggot driving one of these cuck Mobile's, just remember you help pay for that car so that cunt can be an insufferable twat!

>>135642059
I'm pretty sure Musk has stated explicitly that the S model was created as a proof-of-concept and as a way to finance further R&D to make electric cars viable for the masses. Assuming I understood your argument correctly, it's invalid.

>>135638317
sorry i mean oil company shills

>>135632276
It's a failed company, they don't make any money.

same level of scam as recycling

>>135642507
>Compare Apples to Apples
>No one eats apples around here because we're too poor
>Compare your Apple to my potato
>11.65 metric tons: 15000 miles in a USA 2001 FORD E150 CLUB WAGON 5.4, Auto(L4)

Behold, This leaf grows from a retard tree.

>>135642410

This.

Even at 30k they're a decent city car.

>>135642665
>I'm pretty sure
>it's invalid.

That's pretty much my whole argument m8, everyone in thread is "pretty sure" but provides no fucking source.

>>135632838
I don't like Musk but someone told me he is paying back everything he takes, including subsidies. So he is the most subsidized and he is not paying any of it back? That's messed up.

>>135643027
Best selling car is Honda Civic. Which has 4.1t/yr and 0.8t upstream emissions. Dailying a civic is better for the environment than Dailying a Tesla. Tesla is a meme. If you want an EV there are more reputable products on the market with less environmental impact. Also your (((popular mechanics))) rebuttal only deals with battery production. It doesn't factor in the US average 200g/mile emissions when it comes to electric fuel for your Tesla.
Versus a Honda Civics 248g/mile.
The Tesla will need a new battery before the civic catches up in emissions. I.e. the civic will never catch up in emissions.

>>135643440
I've played this game before.
>uuhhhh, lel, no citations
Then you find the sauce and the thread dies with no replies.

>>135643539
>best selling car is a Honda
I guess boomers really are getting old huh

>>135642091
Serbian.

>>135643626
I'm just going by the Civic because it's the most popular too. It's actually only #8 for low emissions as far as gasoline powered vehicles goes.

>>135643440
>>135643594
>https://www.recode.net/2017/7/28/16051942/elon-musk-tesla-model-3-handover-event-mass-market-electric-cars
Literally ten seconds on Google.
>The goal: Accelerate the transition from a carbon-powered economy to a solar- and electric-powered one.
>The plan: Build a sports car, use that money to build an affordable car, use that money to build even more affordable cars and provide zero-emission electric power generation options. Oh, and don’t tell anyone about this top-secret list.
If you want to hear that directly from the horse's mouth, you are free to look for a quote. It's obvious they didn't just make that up.

For someone bitching about no-one knowing the facts, it sure sounds like the pot's calling the kettle black.

>>135643775
If I wanted to be disingenuous like the muskfag I'd just pick the #1. to sway the data in my favor regardless of it's popularity.

>>135643823
You forgot to archive that
https://archive.is/buU1c

>>135643539

To add to this leafpost the non-carbon pollution and human cost of rare metals mining is prolific. Soil and water table contamination are serioua drawbacks to lithium mining.

>>135632276
/pol/ is addicted to gargling the cocks of Saudi oil sheiks. They love nothing more than to get on their knees and beg an oil tycoon for a cock in their throat. Obviously /pol/ hates anything that could get in the way of their fetish for being dominated by shitskins.

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>>135643859

>>135643964
This
CO2 isn't the only environmental issue. Nothing pisses me off more than virtue signalling carbonfags who ignore all other environmental concerns.

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>>135632276
>The real Tesla would be alternating in his grave is he could see these people.
>Fuck those corporate shills with their 20th century tech.
>Electrical Science is and has been dead for a long time.

>>135642264
>Because the Arab states are trying to kill off the shale industry by pricing oil too low.
Nop.
>globalists want to bankrupt Russia
>plans to build a pipe to get cheap gas from Arabia to Europe (Russia has almost a monopoly)
>syria says fuck, i want my cut
>arab spring
>russia is not retard, take a part in the conflict
>arabs drop the oil price at the point where is more expensive to extract it than buy back
>russia hold
>price start to go up again

Is a matter of time before they raise the price again. (if you follow news, you would know that shit is getting real in Saudi Arabia)

As i said. Even you don't like electric cars, and think they are useless. You must support the idea. We need a alternative to petrol.

>>135644038
It gets even better when being forced to dine with lefties who bitch about CO2 nonstop and you mention offhand that methane is about 23x stronger than CO2 as a greenhouse gas, and they look down at their steaks, and up at me and say "bullshit".
Exactly.

>>135644309
The south end of my city used to be nothing but pristine natural wetlands and I've watched over the last few years as it all gets bulldozed and replaced by
>smart living condos
and
>Hipster outlet malls
and bullshit like that.
Leftists don't give two shits about the fucking environment. It is their biggest hypocrisy. Take a leftist camping and watch as they complain about everything that is nature.

>>135642059
https://ing.dk/artikel/svensk-undersoegelse-produktion-elbilers-batterier-udleder-tonsvis-co2-200080

For people who don't speak Swedish (and are too lazy to use Google translate)
https://www.autovistagroup.com/news-and-insights/swedish-study-calls-smaller-ev-batteries-finds-tesla-more-polluting-8-year-old

>>135632276
His business model is a meme.

>Denmark
>Government subsidises electric cars for a while
>Tesla selling 1200+ units yearly
>Government removes subsidies because it wants a free market
>Tesla sells 4 cars for an entire year

>>135644526

The left wants us all to live in diverse urban decay. Makes me laugh how the right is vilified yet conservatism is traditionally on the side of the environment.

>Blut Und Boden

>>135644557
Yeah, we already had talked about this.
What is the pros of eletric "dirty" cars?
You only polute a industrial region where it's made. Not your town where you drive it.
I give you a rational example right now.
Chile capital is Santiago. The place is a hole. When people drive around, the fumes don't get carried away, they stay in the streets. Same thing with some big cities who had his own micro climate.
Now you can understand the "environmental issue"? Of course it's not clean or "green", but is better for people.

>>135639782

Those tunnels will never happen in NYC for a very unsavoury reason unless they can be master dead-headed by civil authorities there.

>>135639939

Every (((hedge fund))) and (((capital investment))) executive I know drives at least one. Says it all.

>>135645095

Me not thee until thee becomes me.

>>135632276
> "company" that only exists because the govt subsidizes their bullshit
> CEO is media whore
> products sell only because the normies have a fundamental ignorance of thermodynamics
> you burn orders of magnitude more fossil fuels elsewhere to power an electric car than to just use fuel directly
> media refuses to share this simple and fundamental scientific fact so the "company" can continue sucking down tax dollars
> costs an arm and a leg to purchase, maintenance costs are even higher.
> production of batteries costs even more fossil fuels, more than a petrol car uses in 2 years
> battery production requires rare elements found only through strip mining
> ALL essential rare element mines are in china and africa, run by dictatorships and kleptocracies
> in a severe crash, the battery is a toxic bomb that generates fires which cannot be fought with conventions firefighting equipment
> installation of charging station at your house costs taxpayers even more
> no readily available charging locations outside hipster areas of large metropolises
> guzzoline will still be produced, because it is a waste byproduct and still needs disposal.

theres more but i doubt you would understand the science and economics involved.

electric cars are wasteful impossible boondoggle that will NEVER solve our energy problems and cost the economy huge amounts of capital that could be better used refining methyl alcohol technology

Don't like nuclear power plants because the fucking waste, but likes electric cars. These green cucks are so hard to understand. Plus what would happen when the battery end his cycles? just send to the car graveyard?

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>>135644891
The left likes laying down astroturf and bulldozing forests to put up organic free range cheese shoppes and then pointing their finger at everybody else for increased atmospheric CO2. That's basically leftism in a nutshell.
They project their feels onto nature and desire to shape "nature" into the image of their irrational feefees.
A new gender here, a greenspace there. And of course if they can't see it, they can't comprehend it (they are literal intellectual infants with no object permanence). They don't understand the sheer amount of agricultural space necessary to sustain exponentially exploding urban populations and how creating that agricultural space completely fucks up the planet.

>>135645460
What? Are you making a joke about my poor language skills?

>>135639293
Burning a trivial amount of gasoline, again, and again, and again, and again.

Solar panels and batteries only need to be made once (outside of physical failures and need replacing)

>>135632276
I dont mind their cars but the idea that they are more environmentally friendly than a normal car is a meme.

Most power generators generate CO2 and the process of mining and building Lithium-ion batteries produces a shit-load of pollution that has to be dealt with at massive cost. There is a reason the only place in the world with meaningful rare-earth mining operations is China.

Money would be better spend on battery/energy storage research and getting next gen nuclear reactors online.

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>>135645491
>He doesn't believe in magical fairydust closed loop lithium battery recycling

>>135645491
>These green cucks
Never take a environmentalist, wow change his phone twice a year, seriously. They don't deserve it.
>Plus what would happen when the battery end his cycles
Recycle (seriously, this shit is expensive and can be recycled.)

>>135645857
Not really, batteries go bad after some cycles. But they are still improving. In few years we will have pretty good batteries.

>>135645966
About the carbon footprint.
>>135645095

>>135634779

Ask Tyron.

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Tesla's stock will be one of the first companies to crash and burn right before the crash.

Face it, oil is $50 a barrel and will be this way for another 10 years thanks to all the oil we keep finding.

Hybrids are probably going to be here to stay. Their batteries last far longer and they don't have a bullshit range limit. You also don't need to charge it every night.

>>135645558
He's just making a statement about how people don't regard problems as 'real' when they're 'over there', and become an issue when they effect you.

>>135632276
Because Memelon Musk is the patron saint of Reddit.

>>135646268
Oh I don't dispute it, plus centralised generators can have sequestering methods for pollution placed on their smokestacks far more easily.

The issue is environmentalists are weirdly fixated on particular technologies and tend to ignore the downsides. They care more about environmentalism than the environment. Solar, wind and batteries (made in China) good, nuclear, Nat-gas & on-shoring production bad. Its an ideological fixation on a technological issue and it is cancer to actually getting shit done.

>>135646417
>Hybrids are probably going to be here to stay. Their batteries last far longer and they don't have a bullshit range limit. You also don't need to charge it every night.

The additional mechanical complexity is a huge cost that only comes out down the line when parts start to wear. Many hybrid owners are going to come to regret their decision when the maintenance bill comes in (unless they do the smart thing and sell to a sucker)

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>>135646417
>Face it, oil is $50 a barrel and will be this way for another 10 years thanks to all the oil we keep finding.
So cute, this is what Americans believe.
Don't you read the news?
ME is torn apart. We going to watch a civil war in the next year. Prepare for the most expensive gas you ever brought.

>>135646762
the fact that they're against nuclear but in favor of manufacturing shit tons of batteries should be the tell-all that they don't give a fuck about the environment and its just virtue signaling.

>>135632276
he runs a company on like 60% gibs

>>135632276
It has no real net effect on emissions. However, the cars themselves are GREAT to drive for the price.

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>>135644565

DELET THIS

that company create "cars" for cuks only

>>135636298

Music isn't degenerate, but using music because you're too weak is degenerate.

>>135632276
Teslas are made in china now. Plus /pol/ is against gov subsidized bullshit. Well RWDS are okay.

>>135645966

Now you can understand why we're burying trillions of $ in Afghanistan:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-war-is-worth-waging-afghanistan-s-vast-reserves-of-minerals-and-natural-gas/19769

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>>135647348
Tesla is the only car company that build cars for people who like cars. Look at the alternatives.

>>135647686

> we
I'm vacationing in Turkey

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>>135647690
Granted.
On the other hand...

>>135647686
Problem is Afghanistan is full of Afghanis. Resource extraction from mid east is always a shitshow.

We have huge rare earth resources in Aus and in Canada, with smaller but viable deposits in US, but we cant touch em because of green regulations.

>>135648240
If i drive one of those, everybody would know that my dick is small.

>>135647686
>>135647733
>I'm vacationing in Turkey

More like

>Forgot to turn off my proxy

I drive a Chevy Volt. It's pretty good.

>>135646934
We.
Who? Nobody cares about Brazil's oil.

>>135648771
>What? We barely produce oil for us, we are noit going to sell it.
Oil will be expensive when war starts and pipe line get blow.

So I'm just going to do some autism math here neutrally for people to work with.
DoT says: Average American drives 13,474 miles a year.
Let's say for a nice round math the average person is a driver for 50 years of their life.
So people will drive an average of 673,700 miles in their lifetime.
A Chevy Bolt EV is EPA rated at 28kwH/100 miles.
So if an American drove nothing but a Chevy Bolt operating in tip top condition for their 50 year motoring life they need to generate 188,636 kwH of electricity assuming an impossible 0 loss generation/charging system.
Looking up fair ballparks you generally expect average 4 hours of full sunshine per day. You have 73,000 hours to generate that electricity over your lifetime. So you need a 2.5kW solar array operating at peak output the whole time (but apparently they lose around 8-10% of their output after 25 years, so you would have to add or replace a few panels eventually) So I think it would be fair to round that up to a 3kW solar array.

How practical is that? I'm not a solar expert.

>>135646934
We don't get our oil from the middle East anymore you stupid monkey faggot.

>>135647623
>Music isn't degenerate
yes it is, it makes you feel good, it's like drugs or hookers

>>135632276
Musk is a corporate leach. Without carbon credits and other government handouts his companies would collapse

>>135650196
The funny thing is breads like this expose the fact that muskfags unironically believe that Tesla is the only electric car on the market.

>>135649715
As of March 2015, 85% of crude oil imports came from (in decreasing volume): Canada, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Venezuela, and Colombia. 19% of imported oil comes from the Middle East.

>>135648448
And if you drive a tesla, you have no dick.

>>135649715
Yes, you do.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm
More than half your "crude oil" comes from ME.

Must be hard to get educated about your own country by a "stupid monkey faggot".

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>>135650607
Dude, i would prefer convert a nice car to electric, than buy a brand new one.

Look at this iconic beast. Imagine this thing running on a decent electric motor.

>>135641750
>Coal is by far the best choice, at least for the next few decades.
wrong its actually nuclear power

>>135650904
Some people have done that actually, in particular with beetles. They're easy to retrofit.

>>135651057
Yeah, nuclear power is by far the cleanest alternative. Sadly faggots can't see the big picture.

>>135632276
Cars with lithium ion batteries is fucking stupid, unless a new kind of battery its invented, Tesla is just cashing on the dreams of idiots investors and the gov.

>>135651068
Yes. Here in Brazil, we call them "Fuscas". There is nothing in this car you can't fix with a piece of wire.
Some even said that this car was Hitler's best job.

>>135651317
Betcha they don't know it's technically a Porsche

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>>135634779

>fuel gauge

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>>135633226

Why couldn't they put this in the model 3?

>>135632276
>Why does /pol/ hate it?
probably because its a rich liberal car subsidized in part by tax payers

>>135632400
glass batteries are coming.They are 300% better and cheaper.

>>135651283
>Tesla is just cashing on the dreams of idiots investors and the gov.


This -- Musk is a master of finding things that the government vaguelly wants to have done, but does not care enough about to get too upset if they are not actually accomplished -- he is, in other words, master of finding virtue signaling that the government will pay him to send out, regardless of whether he actually accomplishes stated goals.

This is most obvious with Tesla, the high end luxury car he is producing and selling under huge government subsidies as a result of the government contracting with him to produce an electric car at affordable prices for mass consumption. The fact that he did not do what he was supposed to is not important -- the governing class got to announce their green initiative was underway, that is all that matters.

Similarly, we see him beginning to lower expectations for what he will actually accomplish with launch vehicles and space craft.

>>135650607
fucking laughed, top banter

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following the elimination of subsidies [...] Nobody was hurt more than Tesla [...] in 2015 Tesla sold a total of 2,738 cars in Denmark. In 2016 the number dropped by 94% to just 176 units.

Tesla Motors, SolarCity, and SpaceX—a few of his highest-profile projects—have relied heavily on government subsidies. According to a 2015 article in the Los Angeles Times, these three companies "together have benefited from an estimated $4.9 billion in government support."

Elon Musk confirmed to be a Section 8 nigger

>>135651652
too expensive to manufacture and update

poltards defending petroljew

>>135632276
They make no profit

The only reason they stay in the green is from tax payers

>>135655390
I love you Lithuania, but name one reason why you think the benefits of gasoline are offset by it's disadvantages instead of repeating buzzwords

>>135648456

Believe what you want to believe. I get my 0.00025 shekels per post regardless.

>>135648420

Afghanistan is a uniquely troublesome shithole. History's full of would-be invaders turning tail and leaving: Brits first, Russians next, and Americans at last.

I'd say controlling Afghanistan is even harder than controlling the ME. Now the cost-benefit is sorta offset though.
> Pollute a sparsely populated 3rd world shithole to mine Li and make a ton of batteries; homeland stays clean
> Develop Li tech until batteries are actually recyclable and are more efficiently made (even if it is pollution heavy to make them; they can be made in Afghanistan and shipped to the US).

I have a feeling this is one of the hedging investments the US has made at the turn of the millennium to ensure their energy supremacy; regardless of the weakening petrodollar.

>>135632276
It wants to normalize cars to the point where all cars are boring, self driving, electric blobs that look like nothing.