Would /pol/ side with Caesar's Legion?

>>132964599
No, probably side with House it may not be apparent at first.

>>132964599
Well, they did fight against the New Peoples Republic of Northern Mexico.

>>132964599
>Another society with 90% slave population.
Exactly what America needs.

Yeah

>>132965577
Slavery has been a thing for thousands of years and is still a thing today, stop acting like we invented it you kike

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>>132964599
Of course

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True: Americans, natsocs, and American natsocs side with the brotherhood of steel

>>132964599
Yes but mostly out of spite. The depiction of Caesar's legion is the thing I hate the most about the game I love. They made them so blatantly evil that they may as well called them Nazis. Even in a post apocalypse, no one will be that cartoonishly evil.

>>132965892
Excuse me ,
I forgot Goyim are unable to read without forcing stuff into the sentence.

Allow me to rephrase:
>Another society with 90% slave population.
Exactly what the world needs.

.....Some prosecution complex you have there

>>132964833
If you really read up on the NCR, they're not much like modern day California. They're more like libertarian leaning capitalist.

Well they use the word "degenerate".

>>132966112
Foreign leftist typically try to drive home the US had slaves crap. That's why most people are on edge about it.

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>>132964599

Brotherhood are kind of retarded but likely to have the best economy due to their technocratic superiority and their strong fielding of academia to maintain lost tech.

>The republic second
>Ceasar's Legion last, an economic shithole is a poor hole

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>>132964599
I thought you were asking Pompey or Caesar.

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>>132966128

>>132966240
okay point.....
will keep in mind

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>>132964599
fuck no
colonel Autumn did nothing wrong

The legion and house are the only true good endings. House has a plan in place too put people on another planet within 100 years. Cesar knows the legion won't last long without him holding it together. That's why he so desperately wants to assimilate the NCR. The NCR are good but they are modelling themselves on the old world which is a world that failed. By assimilating the NCR Cesar is trying to create a new government. One that has the strength of the NCR and legion.

>>132966376
That's one thing I don't like about /pol/ there's an automatic assumption of hostile intent with every statement, because quite frankly that's true a good 90% of times here.

>>132966813
Go fuck yourself nigger

>>132964599
SAGE

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The ones with high iq

Aka not the rightists

>>132964599
>being Caesar's bitch

I'm good. I'd rather just pick Yes Man and do and kill as I please.

>>132966953
lol it's because we can't use the words that don't have an English translation

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>all these ignorant savages in this thread

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>>132966981
>Taking the least interesting way out
>Not taking sides in a political struggle representing different philosophical points, but rather embracing the shit tier 'head canon it' option.
>Not siding with Mr.House who literally wants to Make New Vegas Great Again

Look at this pleb.

>>132967192
Found the 6th grander

>>132964599
No, I'd be running butt naked doing jet all day

>>132964599
Asking if a hyper indivdualistic/liberal(the freedom kind) board that despises centralised power would side with the most anti indivudual, hyper regulation centralised power in fnv? The fuck you on anon

>>132964831
This. House was fine.

>>132966011
How are they cartoonishly evil? They are literally doing what roman legions did in real life. May sound brutal to you, but that's the way it was. Puts fear in the heart of their enemies.

Or did you think Rome virtually conquered the world by playing fair? No need for that when you're fighting subhumans.

>>132966011
that's because they didn't have time to finish the Legion, which is why I'm hoping for a New Vegas remake in the future

>>132967600
You mean the same board which wanks off to the idea of man unlocking his true potential and leaving behind materialistic desires that keep him down? Caesar believes in these exact things.

>>132965971
>technophile shutins that regressed to the point of letting females be in charge of finding supplies

>>132964599
>retarded thugs in hockey gear led by a romeabo

House master race

>>132967814
>puts fear in the heart of their enemies

>bunch of tribal illiterate pseudo niggers sporting football pads and spears

>>132964599

Nah man,the only truly fleshed out faction was the NCR,mostly because Bethesda was pressuring Obsidian into finishing the game faster.
If they had their time the map could've been twice as big.

>>132965971
Found the Bethesdafag

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Ad Victoriam brothers

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If I had to choose between the options given, then I'd just use Yes Man to seize control.

>>132968413
a bunch of tribal illiterate pseudo niggers sporting football pads and spears who beat the shit out of the NCR who only won against them because they managed to bait them at Boulder City. Not to mention that the NCR was weaker after the first battle of Hoover Dam while the Legion was getting stronger. If it wasn't for the Courier doing their dirty work they would've lost Vegas

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>>132965971
this

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>>132966284
Same here my patrician bröther.

But in the modern world I would side with Trump's Legion almost definitely.

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>tfw i never finished new vegas because i went into the shitty Honest Hearts and now i'm stuck with a bunch of Indian larpers and can't get myself to finish the DLC

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>>132966112
>some persecution complex you have there

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>>132966480
Tthat's not Frank

>>132968620
You're completely right. The only difference between the NCR and the Legion is that the Legion doesn't pretend not to be a bunch of pseudo niggers

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>>132964599
the short answer is no.

>>132968754
To be fair, the NCR is weak in the Mojave because it's too overextended, if the Legion tried to push on deeper into NCR territory they'd have a harder time fighting them.

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>>132968652
>Trumpfag
At least you are not a kike. That is something positive.

>>132968834
>when most of the game testers chose to side with House that they had to make him order the Courier to destroy the BoS to make him less preferable

>>132964599
>Hegelian dialetics
Might as well be commies

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>NCR
Old American 50's values
Some bureaucratic problems, but you can get a near perfect ending, if you do all the side quests right.

>house
Okay.
Order needs to be brought to the wasteland, though. Before the NCR it was like fucking Utah. Basically the all the old gangs were fiend status and wild life was rampant.

>Legion
Arbitrary and stupid.
It's also full of faggots.

>Yes Man
Dumbest fucking thing in the world. As if you know what to do. Unless you have 100 in science, speech, and trade, then fuck off.

After playing the game several times, NCR was the best call. It's the only way to give every one decent endings.

>>132964599
I would lol

>>132969024
>but you can get a near perfect ending with NCR
I don't want to get cucked

>>132966813
glass yourself kike.

>>132964599
HAIL CAESAR!

>>132965971
enclave LITERALLY TRIED TO GAS MILLIONS OF PEOPLE FOR MINOR GENETIC DEFORMITIES
they are the truest nat soc

>>132964599
no, in fact I actually killed everybody and ruled the place myself

>>132969114
cucked how?
You don't get anything other than a fancy medal, but you should be pretty damn loaded by the end of the game.

>>132969024
Degenerates like you belong on a cross.

>>132968974
I hate that the fucking NCR can become allies with BoS but House won't consider it.

>>132964599
Yes.
I joined them entirely.
Walked the courier's mile and got that face mask for destroying NCR at the Hoover Dam.
I also nuked California.
>5/5 felt gud man
There's no difference between the sex slaves in Gomorrah and the slaves in the Legion, except for the illusion of freedom, and the breeding of degenerate perversion.
They were torturing those girls to death in Gomorrah, and the NCR did nothing to stop it.
They didn't have the means to discover it.
They just guarded the strip, protecting and financially supporting the business.
Slaving people is more honest, than confusing people into thinking they're workers for a life full of STDS and economic sex slavery.
The Legion is 10 times more honest than everyone else in New Vegas.
A place like the Wastelands need something like the Legion to force people into shape.
Our republic was created when there was a group of well educated, nuanced people of a homogeneous population.
That civilization collapsed and what was left was a multi-racial, multi-cultural melting pot of marauders and gangsters.
You can't turn that into a constitutional republic with democratic processes.
That kind of a people need structure forced onto their existence.

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>>132964599
No.
Yes man, best man.

>>132966112
>.....Some prosecution complex you have there
Excellent bait my heeb friend

>>132969362
>Degenerates like you
>says the faction that practices homosexuality

Also glossing over the fact that Caesar is a giant hypocritical faggot
>HUR DUR MAN POWERFISTS AND AUTODOC

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>>132966128

>>132964599
Fuck no. Caesars legion would implode the second he dies(which considering that he has cancer isn't far off). Lanius and Vulpes are both brilliant when it comes to military matters, but the legion has no diplomatic or administrative geniuses to consolidate and reform the legions gains and turn it into a proper nation.

>>132968620
They only won because they had fucking 86 tribes backing them.

Even if the legion took the dam, they would have had no way of holding it. The legion could take on the weak mojave NCR, but not the full might of california NCR. They have tanks, vertibirds, and a fuck load of troops.

They would have retaken it in the long run.

>>132969347
Cass literally cucks you in the NCR ending

>>132964831

Why be a minion when you can kill House and seize power for yourself?

>>132969724
>Caesars legion would implode the second he dies(which considering that he has cancer isn't far off)

Only because they were a loose tribe of savages. If they had captured vegas, they would have become a nation with a capital and an identity. I think at that point they could have lasted without Caesar. If Vulpes took command with vegas as the capital, the legion would have been tough to deal with.

Lanius and vegas it's hard to say. You are right though without vegas they were fucked either way.

>>132968607
You do realize you're only King of Vegas not the Mojave right?

>>132969793
Not if you're a woman he doesn't.
Which was the best option, so you can fuck benny over literally.

>>132969420
Are STDs even common in the wastes? i don't remember hearing anyone mention them. it would kind of make sense if they mostly died out in the time instances of no more than 1000 were forced to interact with each other for more than 100 years.

>>132969201
>For minor genetic deformities
Did you play Fallout 2? It would also kill all other mutated life. It's actually not that bad of an idea.

>>132969955
Lashing Benny to a cross was preddy gud, hacking him to death with a lawnmower blade was preddy gud too.

>>132970027
It would make even more sense considering this is set in a pseudo 50's America when STIs weren't really around that much to begin with.

>>132970091
I baited him into his room, knocked his gun Mario out of his hand, and then shot him in his face as the killing blow after beating the shit out of him with my fists.

>>132970222
Maria*

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>>132964599

Nah, I'm more of a laissez faire kind of guy, so I'd opt for Mr. House and his capitalist city state.

>>132970027
>>132970138
Good points, but still, the indignity of the NCR controlled strip was heinous, even in comparison to the Legion.
At least the Legion had a way to force degeneracy out of the Wastes, the NCR promoted a standard of communication that doesn't even work in our current reality anymore, people have degenerated too much. Nobody alive these days could sit and talk with George Washington, the attitudes and behaviors within the NCR were incompatible with the people of the Wastes, the Legion was the only group that could reach both the civilized and the savage.

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Are you cunts serious?
The entire point of the game, including Lonesome Road, is that only Caesar's Legion has the true potential and will to create a whole, functioning human nation again - but they can only continue to exist after the war if they change, which is the change that the Courier will introduce to them.

If the Legion win, they will unify the USA and possibly a lot more of the new world, and they will be able to create a thriving empire - with the help of the Courier. That's the Courier's true role in the game.

And just to bring it back to /pol/, the right wing tends to what is necessary, not what's most fun or kind.

>>132970222
nice

>>132970432
Also obviously you'll get infinite slave-girls and that's a fairly fucking attractive offer /roleplay

>>132970415
I'm not sure what you're talking about, because NCR didn't even control the Strip. They weren't even allowed weapons outside of cattle prods.

And most savages were just put down by NCR. The scorpions, jackles, and other raiders were on par with the fiends before NCR just rolled them. Savages don't live long in NCR.

>>132970091
>>132970138
>>132970222
>not letting Benny go
that's not very nice.

>>132969024
>picking the dying bear whose army is spread to thin whose politicians can't even send their best soldiers till the very end of the war thus losing to a faction that's 5 times smaller and technologically inferior because one courier dude helped them out

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>>132969562
Legion punishes homosexuality with death, that's probably the reason you're so upset about them.
>HUR DUR MAN POWERFISTS AND AUTODOC
Ceasar knows the difference between using technology and being used by technology.

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Pol is legion. The worst of b URR DURR WE R LEGION DURR came to pol. All pol talks about is how the world could end so they could rape and kill like the ostracized rejects of society that they are.

Legion were the worst of the worst. The dumbest of the dumb. Same adjectives I use for pol..

>>132970080
Shouldn't shit like brahmin be kept alive for food

>>132969767
>They only won because they had fucking 86 tribes backing them.
Not much different to NCR's strategy of throwing soldiers until they win.

>The legion could take on the weak mojave NCR, but not the full might of california NCR. They have tanks, vertibirds, and a fuck load of troops.
I don't think the Legion wouldn't adapt in this situation, remember that even though the Legion is anti-technology they didn't hesitate to use energy weapons.

>>132970432
>taking MUH BEAR MUH BULL guy seriously

And I think it's entirely unfair to compare post game legion with in game NCR. Tons of shit like the corruption gets weeded out in the side endings depending on what quests you do and how you complete them.

Crimson Caravan gets assraped and huge regulations get imposed after the incident with the van graffs. Most the corrupt kikes get rooted out.

>>132970572
Savages are meant to be civilized, killing them all off is failure.
The NCR served the strip, the fact that the NCR couldn't even secure the Strip on a De Jure basis is just proof that they suck.

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>>132964599
no.

>>132969907
>only King of Vegas not the Mojave

Wrong. The chip extends the range of the military robots to the entire map.

>>132969767
I nuked California.
You know you can nuke California, right?

>>132970640
>literally the only philosopher left in the wasteland that accepts that no factions is perfect but through synthesis they will become perfect
>LEGION ARRR DAMMB YOU ARE DMBBB

>>132970890
wait what?
how do you do that?

>>132970615
>losing to a faction that's 5 times smaller
Are you serious? The Legion is WAAAAAAAAAAY bigger than NCR. That's the main reason they give NCR problems. That and the NCR's lack of training to new recruits.

>>132970622
No, it's openly practiced in the legion.
>Ceasar knows the difference between using technology and being used by technology.
He's a full blown retard. Stimpacks are fucking banned and the only difference between stims and healing powder is that healing power is eaten whereas stims are injected.

>>132970718
A legion with the dam, national identity with a capital, and an NCR that just lost a war would be pretty damn strong. It would be interesting to see how that conflict would go on.

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Im just gonna quote Marcus:
>Caesar thinks he can change human nature. Most of the Legion is following Caesar, not Caesar's ideals. When he's gone, it'll crumble.

On who to side with, my opinion is that Mr. House is best choice for New Vegas, regarding political situation in Mojave although all of them want it for their personal interests, just like real life.

>>132970731
Yeah but the NCR still serves the political establishment and those who can pay to influence it. What's first needed is a clean slate, free of degeneracy. I could see your point if the Courier had agency to change the establishment of the NCR though, otherwise we'd just need further "heroes" to correct the eventual (inevetable) problems that the NCR system provides.
Also Ulysses is based, no bully.
>>132970692
Maybe, good point actually, there was so little discourse around the last part of the game that there might be huge flaws in the plan

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>>132966480
Enclave for true Americans.

>>132970761
Most of them are junkies.
And in all endings of Legion, Caesar just kills them all anyway. Literally the same outcome as NCR.

>>132970890
You can nuke whoever you want. I don't think it's really fitting to discuss that in terms of post game because of that.

>>132966128
they are fucking commie bastards. The peak of california. They try to impose rule on anyone, offer little protection but take a lot of tax, and they also take your ground from under your feet.

>>132970946
I killed Ulysses.

>>132970989
yeah, but it was addressed how dangerous it would have been to let the legion get vegas because they wouldn't just be following Caesar anymore.

They'd be a nation and not just random tribes.
Caesar even knows this and that's why he looks at it like his Rome.

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of course. every playthrough.
8 playthroughs and still never gone NCR.

>>132970989
>On who to side with, my opinion is that Mr. House is best choice for New Vegas, regarding political situation in Mojave although all of them want it for their personal interests, just like real life.
And that is why the courier must walk the lonesome road

>>132970953
>next he's gonna say that the Mongolians had a large territory
>or that Alexander the great had a large amount of territory
They were pillagers and conquerors up until new vegas you moron
they didn't use the territory they conquered like the ncr did
they just pillaged and moved on until they could get to new vegas so they can actually have a place to start a nation

>>132970989
>Change human nature
Caesar wanted his Pax romana specifically for the plebians who only follow the cult of personality. New Vegas will be New Rome, and at the very least people will flock to the Dread Pirate Robert Legate Lanius so to speak. People like and support Kimball, no?
>>132971211
boo

>>132969850
Power also means responsibility. Why burden yourself with the chains of commanding when House can take care of things just fine while you continue doing as you please?

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>>132970918
the dumbest of the dumb. The biggest toddler temptantrum. Thats pol. That was legion too.

>>132964599
no,

they are an egocentric tolalitarian military government ran by one man who doesn't respect women, and who happens to have an erection to ancient rome and is a complete psychopath

and oh

>he's an asshole

>>132971138
>offer little protection
This is the one part of your post that isn't true.

The entire game goes on and on about how boring CA is since there's hardly any crime. They also mention how the Mojave was basically worse than Utah before NCR showed up.

It just doesn't really show as much since they're in the middle of their 5th war or some shit.

>>132971293
Good goy, hedonism is what humanity needs in 2281
>>132971376
0.01 cent has been deposited to your bank account

>>132964599
I would if they weren't literall assfucking faggots with technology autism.
>>132964831
I despised House from the first five minutes because he thinks he's HAUGHT SHEEIT. If he weren't so entitled and smug I would have gone with him instead of bashing his zombie face in with a 9-iron.

Yes Man is the only patrician choice. Since you take over NV it lets you larp to do anything you want, my guy would create the 4th Reich with all the space shit from the Big Empty.

>>132971275
>they didn't use the territory they conquered like the ncr did
Yes, they did. The game mentions they have huge operations and settlements in Colorado.
And they vastly outnumbered NCR in men. This is mentioned at the start of the game.

>>132970953
no actually, homosexuality is actually punishable by death, but i understand why you think homosexuality in the legion is A-OKAY is because a lot of people in the mojave think that's true.

but no there is a character in new vegas
(which i forget his name) who is a male prostitute, who used to be a legion slave and was used as a fag-fuck-machind by a centurion. who tried to kill him cause he was scared caesar was gonna find out. but he got away

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>>132971403
oh yeah guy thats totally what I meant

I picked NCR, legion is just too extreme and will probably collapse the sec ceaser dies.

If I could I'd go with enclave though.

>>132971332
>HE'S A DUM DUMB
>fucking gotem
not an argument

>>132971609
Well fuck I must have missed that. Thanks for pointing that out.

>>132971293
>while you continue doing as you please

Not when you are House's bitch. When your boss tells you to jump, you ask how high. Or your boss replaces you. That's even assuming you trust the prick. He's a dictator. He might just kill you if he thinks you are growing too powerful.

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>>132971403
>checks bank account

hey there, i'm sorry but fallout 4 vr is gonna cost a BIT more than that, don't worry though, accidents happen, just go ahead and send me the rest

>>132971701
That's why you should end the game as a giant edgelord when you do house ending.

The game mentions how he affords you everything because he's so fucking afraid of you.

>>132971376
>>he's an asshole
Whom are you quoting?

>>132970989

I loved Marcus. In a strictly non-sexual way, of course.

>>132971751
???
What the fuck are you talking about.

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>>132971751
RING A DING BABY

>>132971534
what are you talking about
by just looking at his army you can clearly see that they pick up all the men and women and act like nomads basically
even if they leave people behind they're probably tiny ass divisions

>>132971427
>Technology autism
Nice NCR meme, the Legion has so much manpower that they can't supply everyone with weaponry
>>132971609
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Jimmy_(Fallout:_New_Vegas)
>>132971634
So give me your full argument
>>132971655
This, fuck every fallout game without a choice for Enclave
>>132971734
Shouldn't you be off "designing" Fallout 6: Skyrim edition?

>>132971814
yeah he was great, even in fallout 2 i liked him, and honestly when i walked up the mountain and he greeted me at the jacobstown i had a bit of an autism-fit to see my old favorite companion

>>132971849
Tons of the traders and other characters mention CO is swarming with legion.
Legate doesn't even show up until the end, because he's too busy lording over it.

The whole [100 speech] back and forth with legate is about fearing him to go back to colorado because the legion will lose it if they go to far into the mojave.

This is all explicitly referenced.

>>132971769
>because he's so fucking afraid of you

He's afraid of you and you're afraid of him. Why would you want to live like that? So much for the carefree life the other guy wanted.

>>132971868
jimmy, right nice thanks anon

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>>132971665
Not a jerked away receded hairline

>>132964599
house is the redpill
>the only man that protected vegas and the strip
>lived for hundreds of years, has more experience than any other human being in mojave
>shitty cardboard robots do a better job at running the strip than ncr cuckies
>cares about the interests of mojave, instead of muh feelings muh empire

>>132971849
Story line, Legion military leaders and general army are not currently near NV at all.
The big man himself only showed up to personally lead the assault because his autism dictates he must take it because "muh rome".
The entire game only takes place over a couple of days storyline cannon. Caesars first goal is to take the dam. By this point you infiltrate the Legion and kill him.
His main armies are still days if not weeks away (it is stated in game). Lonesome Hearts elaborates further, as Joshua failed taking the dam and was burned alive, but survived.
They temporarily pulled back because they didn't realize NCR was still so powerful.
This is why Caesar is trying to wait for his armies.

In actuality they outnumber the ncr by quite a few hundred.

By killing the big man they have no leader, no plans, and become "nomad" tribes as you stated again.

>>132972058
The courier is a literal God of death that assraped the legion and anyone who got in his way.

The instant house would have tried to kill the courier, he would have signed his own fucking death warrant.
Better to just appease the courier, because you sure as shit aren't killing him.

And if you're a giant edgelord, then you just did it for the money. And no one can pay you more than house. Basically nothing house can do about you after that point.

>>132971868
Ok it's pretty simple. You pick the House ending because you agree with his plan. Why kill him and seize power if he is already going to run things the way you want?

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I discovered last night that my paternal ancestors were Franks who fought against Julius Caesar at the Rhine.

So no. I don't suppose I would fight with the Roman Legions.

>>132971211
i completely forgot about that dlc

>>132966128
Not really. They're neo-liberal corporatists. Their leaders are in the pocket of various (((Private Interests))).

>>132972058
>the player character afraid of him
>not being an unstoppable death god that does as he damn well pleases
git gud

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>>132972182
yeah maybe, but don't you think he might be... kind of an asshole? just a little? maybe a little greedy

Reminder: OWB = DM > HH >>>>> LR

>>132966480
*dindu nuffin

>>132967497
This guy gets it

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>>132972383
>reddit blues anywhere close to top

>>132966280
If the Brotherhood was a technocratic-military order closed off from the rest of society but in charge of it, with avenues to the best of the public to join, then they would be great. Sort of techno-fascists. But, they are simply too small and irrelevant. At least at the current stage of Fallout history.

>>132972073
>earned the right

LMAO, this cuck bullshit is amazingly retarded.

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Abso-fucking-lutely

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>>132966480

Enclave is the best choice, really. If only Bethesda knew how to write half as decent as Obsidian can.

>>132964599
And If I wanted to die from like infection after tripping on a rock and scraping my knee then yeah, Legion's a good choice. They don't even have a single doctor and are half backwards near tribal fucking retards in roman cosplay gear.

>>132972207
That doesn't refute my point though
Even if the legion's main army isn't there that doesn't refute the point that the reason behind the legion's outnumbering of the ncr is their style of warfare
While the ncr makes static cities and settlements wherever it goes the legion moves most of it's settlements with them as they conquest
Like any real world empire they feed their people and pay their soldiers by being an expansionist economy
You can realize this by just looking at all the women and cows and shit they have in their camp
by contrast the ncr have solely soldiers

>>132964831
>siding with the head jew
>>>/out/

>>132971211
well he was kind of a self important nigger faggot, so i don't blame you

>courier accidentally destroys muh new nation

>blow up california cuz that's important and will fuck shit up

>>132970989
The Legion takes human nature into account more than any other faction. The NCR thinks that Old World principles will work when Old World principles are what resulted in the War

>>132972629
>the legion's outnumbering of the ncr is their style of warfare

No, it's literally because the instant the Legion conquers a group they forcibly assimilate them.
They have entire cities back in Colorado.

>by just looking at all the women and cows and shit they have in their camp
Shit they have all stolen during the current war. Most slaves even remark about this.

>>132971218
a true American right here

but you do know that there are two other options, right?

>>132972001
Taking 2 days more to come to the war =/= he was fucking about in some huge legion city
The legion moves it's settlements as it conquers but leaves some tiny ass places
his division probably just got caught up somewhere
also those speech checks are meant to convince people
they are not truthful they're just good rhetoric
and when your goal is to convince a fag to not murder dudes you'll say whatever exaggerated thing you can

>>132968692
honest hearts is great if you're a true cowgirl (male)

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>>132964599
BEAR

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i wonder how benny would have ran new vegas...

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Best possible political order for the wasteland:

BoS takes a more active role in early Wasteland politics, builds a small network of surface fort-settlements Wastelanders flock to for protection and medicine.

After the two Enclave wars, the BoS attempts to integrate the survivors to varying degrees of success. Some retreat to form remnant groups or live in privacy, some join and are integrated over time.

The Fort Network allows the BoS access to more prospective members. The society is split between the BoS order itself, and a civilian leadership which answers to the BoS. Essentially, a citizen republic with a Fascist Paramilitary Order at the core. The BoS attempts to stop the NCR from ever becoming a thing, instead keeping California a collection of BoS Fort-towns and small independent groups of wastelander towns.

All the while, they explore the wasteland for pre-war tech and new threats to the human race.

>>132964831
((( House )))

>>132964599
>slavers
no, that's your thing, brah

>>132972247
That sounded a lot better. However, to answer your rethoric question, because you might want to be less lethargic to the suffering of others.

>>132973021
that doesn't sound absolutely horrible. The BoS has the weaponry to protect the people, the technology to better the lives of everyone, even if technological progress stops for a long time, and they also have the know-how to teach people, so they can continue this gig for the next generation.

>>132972812
>No, it's literally because the instant the Legion conquers a group they forcibly assimilate them.
>They have entire cities back in Colorado
that's the style of warfare i'm talking about you mong
they started from one tribe and forcefully assimilated like a 100 or something (don't remember how many the game said)
Caesar openly states that the legion removes and resemblance of identity from their conquered tribes and uses all of them for conquest
The assimilation process is warfare ergo all those tribes have to become soldiers
That means that they pact those fuckers up and move them so they can continue to fight
the whole economy is expansionism
he openly states this
Contrasting that the ncr just tells some town you're ncr nao and lets them do whatever the fuck they want
they don't outright tell them join our army or die
that's the reason the legion has all the soldiers

>>132973021
>>132973226
Judging from how Fallout 1 ended though, the BoS isn't interested in fostering a healthy people - they want to focus on their hunt for technology and information. Perhaps if they'd unify with the Followers of the Apocalypse.

>>132972978
That guy was retarded hard to kill, what the hell?

>>132964599

nuh uh

>>132964599
Yes Man anyone?

>>132973288
>the whole economy is expansionism
That's why they need New Rome, so they can channel their energy into something more long-term.
>>132973366
Stop shilling your kidnapped robot waifu

>>132973304
i haven't played 1 and 2
should i?
i played 3, dropped it instantly played new vegas and completed everything, played 4 and go disappointed massively

>playing NV for the first time
>reach Nelson, looking forward to a full town with stuff to buy, side quests to do, shit to collect etc
>some furry faggot and his mad max cosplayers have killed everyone and burned the town
>well, fuck you too vulpes
And thats why I will never side with the legion

>>132973406
that's what is was saying

>>132964599
Nah.

>>132964599
I'd just take Fisto to a private room, and use my 100 Science points to run the young boys subroutine. All night.

>>132964599
Best playthrough of new vegas I ever had was a legion playthrough. 10/10 true to Caesar. NCR, the minutemen...ect any of these factions trying to revive old world values feel just wrong and doomed to failure in the long term.

>>132973409
>>132973428
Sorry, i'm stupid. Need to go run to clear my head. Anyway yeah, Fallout 1 unmodded is a great, tight experience. Don't play it with a guide, roleplay that you're just some cuck from a vault and you'll have a great time.

Fallout 2 is a bit wider and wasn't entirely finished, (as you can see in the mediocre ending) but there's a mod on the mod nexus that restores a bunch of content, it's the #1 mod i think. Just play Fo2, don't listen to the calls for help at all because there is NO time limit, and enjoy the wider, more chaotic experience.

>>132973580
also they're like dirt cheap on steam, i have 40+ hours in both so they're good value too

>>132973406
Nah, I just like the Idea of going my own way. Also Fisto is Waifu.

>>132973580
i usually play shit with guides though
cause i hate the collect this small trinket you somehow need to know it's at this exact spot bullshit

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>>132973304
The Followers of the Apocalypse are foolish idiots. They are a danger to themselves and others, spreading dangerous information and technology.

Think of it like this: is Africa a better place because of western advances in agriculture and medicine?
There is a much higher population, yes, but that population is starving and fighting eachother just as much, if not more, than they were before. That is what the Followers would end up creating.

Case in point: Caesar was once a member of the Followers of the Apocalypse.

But yeah, the BoS as it exists today is ultimately useless and irrelevant.

Oh, the BoS also should investigate all the Vaults that they can, and try to sort of conscript the inhabitants as members of the BoS, and turn the Vaults into underground settlements.

>>132972629
but you're wrong dude.
Joshua led one force and nearly took NV, one fucking force.
The reason Caesar set him on fire was because he was so disappointed that he failed to keep the dam. Almost all of NV was taken with a fraction of Legion's army.
They have far more soldiers and far more trained people. They just weren't there.
They already have a civilization, just not the technology.
Caesar only wants NV because of the dam. Their current tribal feel is only because they have been traveling as a military unit and not a civilian unit.
This is not uncommon, people in our current Armies live out of mudhuts and tents when we are in foreign countries.

>>132964599
No
>the House always wins

>>132964599
lol no

>>132967814
Not true at all. Rome was much more apt to make agreements. Was in fact actually more civilised than its neighbours and not just blood thirsty and only selectively took slaves.

Their main focus was extending roman society abroad as well as raising funds for army through conquest.

I bet the currier would be on /pol

>>132973914
>currier
>/pol
>kekistani

This is intentional, isn't it?

>>132973762
you refuted a point i didn't make in that post
so what if the legion outnumber the ncr
those faggots still are light years ahead technologically
and they still lost
also no current army carries with it the women livestock and all that other shit
my expansionism point still stands
They want to get to new vegas so they can stop being the Mongolian horde and start being rome

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>>132964599

A House Enclave alliance would basically be /pol/

>>132974018
>also no current army carries with it the women livestock and all that other shit
No army also lives in a radioactive wasteland dude, don't be an autist.
Alexander the great had slaves, he was also a fag so no need for women.
Livestock are needed to feed your population, this is literally any military unit ever. You must have food.
That proves nothing.
Legion had cities, large numbers, and a stable environment. They were not nomads.
Caesar was moving a military force, which means resources, food, and in their case slaves.
Caesar only wants NV for the electricity the dam provides, nothing else.
Once he has it, he will move his cities there, but you're still missing the point entirely.

The army was days away, once they conquered NV they would send word and move their people there.

Did you even play the game? Joshua talks about all this. They had towns.

>>132964599
Elijah, for something new.

>>132964599
I'd take the NCR and speech check my way into leadership and creating a 4th reich

>>132964599
I sided with the Legate. The wasteland doesn't need soft pansies

>not delivering the chip and turning the game off

Best ending ever.

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>>132964831
>Give me 20 years, and I'll reignite the high technology development sectors. 50 years, and I'll have people in orbit. 100 years, and my colony ships will be heading for the stars, to search for planets unpolluted by the wrath and folly of a bygone generation.
If anyone could make it work it's House

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>>132974356
elijahs our real guy.

fuck everyone else, get muh holograms, make my own nation, blow fart gas into the mojave, fuck you.

best ending actually

Fuck now I want to do a Legion playthrough

>>132964599
>not taking the control into your own hands
betas detected

>>132964599
'Caesar' is a hypocrite and a romanboo larper to boot
>oh you have a disease that can't be cured with herbs? well you can just die then, survival of the fittest lmao
>not me though, i get to have old world tech to treat my brain cancer cause the rules don't apply to me lmao

>>132974328
no fucking roman emperor ever has been on conquest his whole life you moron
From the begging when he conquered his first tribe to literally the game he has only conquered
He LITERALLY has not ever stayed in his capital for a long period of time making legislation dealing with internal matters
Conquest was he only thing ever done by the legion
Thus making the whole economy expansionist
you can not refute this
stop being a stupid biased ncr nigger
Also a radioactive wasteland is way more akin to early warring factions than modern warfare
you are the one who is missing the point entirely

>>132974592
what i'm talking about, if you don't know

https://youtube.com/watch?v=NV9pwCOczvY

>>132974771
>stop being a stupid biased ncr nigger
What the fuck are you talking about dude.
I am pro Legion, go play the game again. Actually learn the story.
Caesar stayed in his capital for years, he build his empire and has multiple military generals lead his victories.
He literally, literally (not figuratively) only came because NV is so important to him and because Joshua failed to keep the dam.
Literally, that's the only reason.
Had Joshua kept the dam he would not even be in the game period, the game would be entirely different.
All empires expand, duh this is fact. Relocating a capital is also not unheard of, multiple citations throughout history exist of this.
He had cities in Colorado, he wanted to move to Nevada.
This is the only instance in the game of them being nomads and they didn't even nomadically move. They moved as an army, which is not unheard of.
All armies need resources, hints the fucking cattle.
Do you really think they don't have crops in Colorado? Do you think a civilization that is larger than that of the entire NV game wouldn't have cities?
When in the game they have cities with as few as twenty people?
It's a wasteland, cities aren't going to be amazing in every aspect. They did exist.

You're wrong, flat out.

>>132974776
huh didn't know this was a thing
what a stupid fucking ending
a cuck failed at protecting helios 1 so he gets salty and goes all
>muh red clouds will kill you niggers
>i'll horde this sweet technology because reasons

>>132975365
basically

obviously the game reloads to a previous save, cause who wants to watch 20 years of sitting in the sierra madre casino sucking elijahs old cheese cock

>>132975490
are there any other secret endings or no?

>>132975490
>20 years of sitting in the sierra madre casino sucking elijahs old cheese cock
that would be fun erotic fanfiction to read

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>>132964599
I would.

>>132964599
Go House or go home

>>132975272
tell me the legion capital and i'll believe you

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>>132964599

i`m leftwing, and i side with based NCR, they are state, not larpers

>>132964599
they are literally fascists so fuck yeah

>>132975896
yeah and they got nuked
get recked you dumb commie nigger

>>132972483
the commonwealth chapter is growing more and more into a regular nation, they said they established a lot of tributaries in Washington D.C to supply them and start to recruit within the population

>>132975936

>posted from larper-country

i`m not even surprised

>>132967219
yes the boomers are /ourguys/ too but they don't want to expand

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>>132976188
Yeah, maybe, but the East Coast is so totally tainted by Bethesda's bullshit for me so I can't get into it.

Except for their concept art, that's really good.

>>132964599
of course, caesars legion was providing a solid foundation for a future civilization to flourish, new california republic would have collapsed in under a decade and left the same tribal infighting mess that they were born from.

house is a boss but its hard to believe anything he says is actually true and not just manipulating you into making him dictator

>>132976325
The east coast is looking more and more like the enclave, they are in a full purge everything that isn't human mode (without wanting to kill everyone for a tiny bit of radiation which is pretty much stupid considering you will always take radiations in the wastelands)

They are the least tainted by the libtard bullshit with the institute (while the minutemen are just libtards that can't evolve or do something by themselves and will always look like peasants even after taking control of the whole commonwealth)

>>132964599
I side with the NCR because they're the only faction I can relate to. They're sent to a desert to defend a resource even though the natives hate them and they're enemies are backward puppet retards.

>>132967814
yeah but they didnt show any of the good sides, only a little through dialog. what you experience first hand from them is just battlefield slaughter and nothing else

>>132964599
No gods, no masters everytime.

>not having securitrons and robo scorpions to enforce your will

>>132976679
it works perfectly if your character is a genius, for a random soldier or assassin it's retarded

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>>132966480
He got in the way of me putting President Eden's FEV virus into the water purifier. Good ol' Bethesda's scripted ending couldn't let me join the Enclave proper and let him survive.

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>>132971211
Ulysses was the second best character red pilled as fuck.

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Also, this bitch is so fucking hot.
I get rock solid every time I nail her.
Her, Joanna, Dazzle, the ghoul, the robot... it doesn't matter I smash them all about 2 dozen times each.
But fuck me Weintraub, they gave her something a little extra.

>>132966650
>House has a plan in place too put people on another planet within 100 years
Yeah that's why he sat on his ass for 200 years and only started doing shit when ncr showed up.

>>132970640
Jesus fuck that face.
The man is right however you multi cunt trash.

>>132977012
Funniest post i've ever seen on pol

>>132976845
>>132976928
>>132971211
Ulysses is third best character

>>132970731
>Most the corrupt kikes get rooted out
But the system that enabled them is still in place.

>>132976928
>tfw used the Sneering Imperialist check on Salt-on-Wounds
I failed Joshua.

>>132966112
>is heeb
>HAHAHA NICE PROSECUTION COMPLEX
Kinda calling the kettle black, eh?

>>132964599
The aesthetics are kind of cool but Caesar's philosophic underpinning is bad. Dialectics are useless as an actual tool for historical analysis.

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>>132964831
House is the only leader worth that position.

He will watch down on New Vegas like a benevolent god, keeping it in track of restoring civilization.

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>>132977586
Let me axe you a question why.

>>132964599

>side with Caesar's Legion
>Caesar, a roman plutocrat
>become Vercingetorix

Oh boy! It must be fun being a slave.

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the master is ourguy
>he was too much of a pussy to take the dip

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From a /pol/ perspective, I see the following:

>Caesar's Legion:
They're essentially a reactionary ultra-trad imperialist fascist group. All in all, it's pretty /pol/-tier and I wouldn't begrudge anyone for choosing this faction. However, it has faults, and some are valid, some are less so. If you talk to Marcus in Jacobstown, he talks about Caesar's Legion being based around Caesar and not his ideas. I believe that this is an incredibly short-term perception and is, in the long run wrong. If we presuppose that Marcus, by some miraculous means, knows about Caesar's brain tumour, then he probably assumes it shan't be fixed in due time and the legion will fall apart. However, if we are to assume that the Courier sides with Caesar, it's pretty much a given that his condition will be cured and he'd probably live another 30-40 years, barring unnatural occurance such as assassination.

In this time frame, it's quite clear that Caesar is not of a one track mind. He himself admitted that the NCR has good aspects that he'd seek to apply to his legion.

Let's assume that Caesar wins the battle of Hoover dam and assumes command of Vegas, it could be said he may establish a form of Triumverate or advisory council, most likely formed of himself, Vulpes Inculta and Lanius. In this occurance, although mildly "democratic", Caesar still maintains absolute authority in means of a vote, given that Lanius is pathologically loyal to him, so even if Vulpes were to disagree, Caesar would hear him out and make a decision. All in all, even if the legion did fracture after Caesar's parting, his hand over it has given the various factions all they needed to start their own civilizations in post-war world, as Rome did to much of Europe.

tbc.

>>132977935
Sounds awfully jewish m8

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I asked my normie friend.

What do I say next?

>please dox me I need friends

>>132964831
>being a slave to a raisin
/pol/ is truly made of cucks

>>132978334


>NCR
It's essentially the same as any other Republican democracy, it works but its full of holes; and without the hand of its original leadership (Tandi), it's heading downhill. I can't imagine many /pol/acks would choose this faction, lest they had an unerring loyalty to the ideas of the founding fathers.

Were they to assume dominance in New Vegas, I imagine the entirety of the republic would collapse and faction, much in the same way the EU currently is.

>Brotherhood of Steel
In New Vegas, they're essentially a west-coast faction (IE. Not the do-gooding fags you see in 3), and if they had significant power in the Wasteland, they would have probably just left the locals to their own devices, whilst confiscating technology and pursuing it as per the norm. In a realistic scenario of the above, they'd probably have asked the Courier to take control of the Securitron army, but not done much with, save for driving out the NCR and Caesar's Legion. Seeing as they don't really give a shit about the surrounding area, they'd have probably left the casino's standing and left Freeside alone, save for recruiting some of the more brilliant members of the Followers of the Apocalypse. Chances are, they move their field HQ to Helios 1, and made a move towards Big MT and tentatively studied the Sierra Madre. Following the assumed timeline of the Fallout series including 4, they'd have been the first on the west to make ties with Maxon's East Coast chapter.

HOWEVER. They don't have this kind of power in NV, and all that can be said is that it is respectable they're willing to keep to their traditions and codex with bending until the end. Best choice for Blackpillers.

TBC.

>>132978608
charge your battery

>>132965892

You're racist.

>>132978800


>Mr. House
Essentially, his idea for the future would be a form of Libertarianism with the guiding hand of a "god", if you will. In terms of technological progress, definitely the best choice; particularly if the Courier allowed him to access the secrets of Big MT and the Sierra Madre. The resources available would have exponentially decreased the timeframe for his plan.

Trouble is, he's quite happy to let society look after itself, more or less, and he would (seemingly) do absolutely nothing about the decadence and social decline that the Vegas Strip is evocative of. That is, of course, unless it became imperative to do so, I imagine. Can see why some anons think he's the best choice, but I for one, do not see technological progress as enough to be considered a "good" choice.

Personally, if House had more of the Ethos of Caesar, he'd be more or less perfect; failing that, if there was an opportunity for BoS-run New Vegas, that'd be good, too.

>>132978811
Make me.

>>132978989
your phone will

>>132964599
The game has been out for six years and people are still arguing that the Legion will collapse without Caesar when we are shown that in one ending the Legion moves on and does fine without him.

I chose NCR because I could actually relate to the people in the NCR. Yeah, the brass is corrupt and basically history will repeat itself, but the people on the ground, the soldiers and the low ranking officers are real, genuine people with real, genuine ideals. They just want to make the world a better place to live for everyone. They grudgingly accept the weaknesses of the NCR, but at least it is a system. It provides a stable state of affairs and people can count on law actually being enforced, even if the system might be corrupt. I don't think any "normal" decent human being wants to live in a world where nothing is safe, where there is no greater power structure holding everything together. The NCR ground people knew this and wanted to fight for that. Just because some people hard their farms taken or had to deal with taxes doesn't make it a bad option. It's better than being killed or enslaved or hunting for food every day without knowing whether you will wake up the next morning.

>>132979026
Touché

>>132964599
No. Uncultured subhumans.

House > Yes man (kill all 4 factions besides boomers) > NRC >>> Caesar

>>132978608

Avé! True to Ceaser!

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>>132979085
It's because they've literally been Jewed. If you paid attention you'd know that Caesar has a backup plan for his inevitable death, in which either Vulpes or Lanius will presume position as "Ceasar", most likely Vulpes.

You'd also know that upon claiming New Vegas as New Rome, the Legion would undergo a transitional period or as Caesar calls it, the "Antithesis." If you were to intertwine the NCR and Legion into one being, it would change everything.

Daily reminder that Legion territory is degenerate and crime-free, it's free of all the bullshit that infects the wasteland where anyone can come 'n go, settle down freely and raise a family.

>>132965971
fuck off bethesdafag, FO3 has no story.

YEAH! WHO WON THE LOTTERY? I DID!

>>132969850
Yes man and you don't have the capacity and knowledge to govern properly.
It would very probably become a lawless world

>>132979189

Understandble. I felt the same way. At maccarran, Camp Golf, and the NCR outpost you got the feeling of weary brotherhood from everyone you came across. The world was fucked. Brass was fucked but they were still hanging and it made you want to help them hang on too.

>>132978608
Tell her you'd like to treat her like a slave girl that has been good.

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>>132979354
Anything else?

>>132979416
I love you
Also New Rome would actually be the synthesis, since the antithesis is a stationary way of life

>>132979587
Whoops, must've got it mixed up, my bad.

>>132974558
Don't equate the Bethesda Nigger with an Obsidian creation.

>>132970432
unironically this

The courier introduces his own memes to Caesar's Legion that'll alter its future to make it into a true republic, not like the bloated bureaucracy that is NCR. We learned this in Metal Gear: Revengeance

>>132979502
>>132979560

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>>132979502
Your shitty pick up line worked. What have you done...

The Legion is the thinking man's faction, the true far right, NCR is a dysfunctional bloated monster and needs to be defeated at Hoover Dam to fix it.

>>132965971
>hoard technology and riches only for the top individuals who are hidden behind walls of hierarchy, their subjects act under the pretense that they decide what's better for everyone else, while having nowhere near the knowledge that would legitimize them, acting exclusively for the interests of the higher ups and giving an abysmal quantity of fucks for any existing life form
Hm, what group of people are detested for doing that I can't remember

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Not necessarily /pol/'s answer but why the Legion is the best faction overall.

>>132979560

It's spelled 'awe', you mong.

Stop pussyfooting around and ask if she wants to get drinks so you can plot your ultra-trad take over of the UK.

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>>132973761
>technology barnacles

>>132979781
That's amazing
Also go smash her one for us

>>132978210
He was the first to take the dip, which is why half the base was covered in his organic goo, and why he absorbed like 3 other people.

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>>132979880
Adam Adamowicz was a great man.

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>>132979879
I'm Just copying what people send bruv.
>>132979945
I'm trying.

>>132969362
ayo hol up
*enslaves normal people for not being psychopaths*
so u be saying
*zerg rushes a building with snipers*
WE
*destroys any trace of civilization he comes across*
WUZ ROMANS N SHIEEEEEEEET

>>132980172
x

>>132980172
Just remember that the only true way to break the ice is to give her a kiss. Courage is all you need.
>is charging his phone
Since i have your ear, remember to work out, and only use bars of soap for showering, the perfume jew is out to get your natural pheromones

>>132980172
I can't believe it.
/pol/ has done something good for once.
Hope she is atleast white.

>>132980379
Yo Swede I need your fucking talents por favor.

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>>132980172
Lads im pulling a grill with swedebros Fallout memes. Can you even compete?

>>132980371
Love you too boo x

>>132980410
Shes white. Kinda T H I C C but she'll do

>>132980410
I'm no casanova but i could try my hand, what's
your problem?
Also if you got steam we could talk there

>>132980521
FPSPrussia

>>132972978

>People unironically think this irritating faggot is a good character

>>132980379
You're the only based Swede left.

God bless you Hans.

>>132980585
That's more true than you think, i've gotten ostracized out of most social groups i used to be a part of because of my political views
oh, and thanks

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>ncr
liberal democracy is awful, men arent equal, government is forcibly taking over the brahmin ranches and bullying smaller towns, they even hire mercenaries to molest that up north place with supermutants for no reason

>legion
being anti technology is degeneracy, machete niggers and theocracies are islam tier, sure social order is there but military and economy are down in the shitter, 20 brotherhood soldiers on a hill could probably outlast 10000 legionaires, 0/10

>independent
psycho addicted raiders cant establish social order, nor the economy, nor the military, nor anything, 0/10, i'd rather live alone in the wild than in independent vegas, such degeneracy wont be able to sustain itself for longer than few years anyway

>house
the best option, 10/10, economic genius, military genius, society is functioning, manned missions to space, automation, robots, security, electricity, food, non corrupt justice system, everything is there
he is also fucking immortal

HOW CAN YOU NOT OPT HOUSE EVERY SINGLE TIME WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU NIGGERS??????????

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>>132971932

>i had a bit of an autism-fit to see my old favorite companion

My smoothskin

>>132976261

They expand upwards, towards the skies. And they are willing to work hard towards this common goal. For decades. Even if it seems that their dream will not come true.

>>132980521
Whats you're name swede i want to play some vidya with you

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I've never played falliut 1 and 2

should I

>>132980800
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Farbror_Nisse/
I'd be delighted to my friend

>>132964831
YES. LET'S CRUCIFY ALL THOSE DEGENERATES.

>>132969850
>>132969850
>>132964831

House is the only logical choice. Every other faction wished to be granted the power House already had. House kept the entire area stable despite the different factions vying for power. Caesar was a faggot. NCR were faggots. You are a faggot. The only option, thus, is House.

>>132980814
yes, but they are pretty difficult. you have to make a good character from the beginning

Damn, this thread makes me want to replay New Vegas again (not gonna play FO 4).

In my playthrough I chosed Yes Man but it was a close one, Legion being my 2nd choice.

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Three K's a day keeps the niggers away.

If you're 100% European descent aka white and you hate filthy niggers, dirty spics, ugly kikes, arabs, furfags, gayfags, commiefags and all other scum on the earth (including weeaboo degeneracy!) as much as we do, you should join the Moon Central Discord Server. Introduce yourself in #nsfw-introductions to get un-kiked!

https://discordapp.com/ - invite/ - muZfhQz (Remove the - )

1, 2, 3, 4 We declare a race war.
Join us and lynch a nigger tonight.

Sieg Heil

>>132981070
fallout new vegas was the last true fallout.

>>132980967
House lives in a snowglobe. He lets the rest of the Mojave go to shit to preserve his square foot of land.

>>132972226
i can pay me more than house if I kill him and take over the entire mojave and eventually the NCR

but the game should let you play it where you take over vegas "for caesar" and then betray him, kill legate lanius and then take over the Legion and conquer the NCR which is what I would have done

power is what you buy with money i'm gonna go the direct route

>>132980839
Been meaning to get into EVE online. Want to join me?

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>>132971655
>not going with the best faction in every game

>>132981269
Never played it, don't really have time for a mmorpg. Play CS any?

Would New Reno be better off under the Salvatores, the Mordinos, the Wrights or the Bishops?

>>132981697
The answer is always Caesar.

>>132981478
Yeah, I play CS. It depends on which one though, I'm a bit rusty in CS:S but somewhat alright in GO.