/Jordan B Peterson General/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsHrKvRqhzY

>>129979786

Is Twitter the best way of keeping track of when/where he might be doing open lectures? I'd like to see him if he ever makes it to the NY area.

Which're his most "sort yourself out" lectures?

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>>129979786
>Biblical Lecture Series
>using religion to get more $$$
Sad!

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>>129982271
All of them. It's not one pill you take, but the overall effects of the prescribed dosage/course.

Start here, and don't get bored with it. In #6, it all comes together and the greater learning begins, but don't miss out on the context of the pre-classes (1-5) or you won't 'get-it'. It's worth your time and should be a basic life-lesson.

>>129983635
Did south park actually put him in an episode?

>>129983635
Wrong, it's actually antithetical to the 'bible', in that Peterson recognizes 'Christ' as the 'ideal man', given what man has been able to conceive (evolutionarily speaking) based on 1000's of years of war.

It's actually quite the opposite if you have the attention span greater than a nigger and actually sit through it and learn.

>>129983704
shit, here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8Xc2_FtpHI&list=PL22J3VaeABQAT-0aSPq-OKOpQlHyR4k5h

>>129983922

Has there been any thoughtful critique of Peterson's scholarship? I've been binging him so much lately I'm afraid I'm getting drawn in too much by his earnestness and affable personality that I'm not considering alternate viewpoints.

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>>129983635
>Charging tickets for seats to help offset the cost of personally renting the theater
>Paying the rest himself
>Only paid product is one he offered before getting big
>All other funding (the vast majority) is voluntarily donated

Sort yourself out.

>>129984152
I can't say, but there is limited lecture-time in regards to his 'speeches' in that most of what's posted online is just a re-occuring filmography of his collegiate classes. There's something like 3 series that I know of. Given the rest of the shit in the pool, this is a good cleanser if nothing else. It's advantageous in any sense of the meaning.

>>129979786
God the third Biblical lecture was really boring, nothing but old material.

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>>129984152
Yes and no.

Very little has been specifically aimed at him. But that's because he isn't actually talking about some new philosophy or great idea he's come up with himself. He is revisiting and perhaps repackaging many famous thinkers and drawing connections between them. And all of those famous thinkers have been critiqued many times.

Looks up criticism of Jung, Nietzsche, Dostoyevsky, and Solzhenitsyn, as these are among his favorites. A lot of his mythological interpretations are similar to Bruno Bettelheim too, but I'm not sure if they cover much of the same material.

His current biblical lectures seem to have a fair amount of his own interpretation in them, but it's harder to critique that, because it is his own subjective interpretation. It's not really a matter of if it is true or not, more a matter of if it is useful/helpful or not.

Friendly reminder, JP... Solzhenitsyn had his previously-banned book translated into English.

-----

- - Originally written in Russian, it has been translated into German and French by a group of Professors who have offered their translations for free. A full proper English translation hasn't become available until now.

'Two Hundred Years Together' was written by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, the famous Russian dissident who won a Nobel Prize for Literature. Consisting of two volumes, the first being concerned with Russian-Jewish history between 1795-1916, and the second; Jews in the Soviet Union, this book exposes the role of the Jews in the Bolshevik revolution and Soviet purges where 60+ Million people died. So it is clear enough why the Zionists were never going to allow an English translation of Solzhenitsyn's work.

FULL ENGLISH LINK: (can preview and read without downloading it, if you want.)

http://www94.zippyshare.com/v/ToVac7C1/file.html

Did I mention that you don't have to D/L anything? Uploaded by myself.

>>129983860
How does a guy who claims to be a following Jung and Nietzche think there is anything but great folley and error in Christ? The guy is characterized by being a martyr which is in line with the thinking of all the victim-worshipping sjw Peterson claims to be against?

Sometimes I think the guy genuinely can't understand the books he reads. I remember he once said it took him 'years' to figure out that kindness and cruelty are both parts of the same spectrum. That's harmony of opposites 101, Nietzsche discusses that several times and Jung's system loads every single archtype and major psychological organ with duality.

>>129984686
I'm glad I'm not the only one

>>129982271
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w84uRYq0Uc8
The end is fucking powerful. But you might have seen it on YT already. Still worth a watch.

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>>129987952
Saying that Christ is characterized by being a martyr is a bit of a simplification. There's quite a bit more to the Christ story than how it ends. He has already talked many times about the idea of Christ as an idealization of civilized man. I assume he'll go into this in more detail later in the biblical lectures, but the idea seems solid.

The current pop culture ideas of Christ are pretty dumb and cucked, but that's not necessarily Christ's fault, and certainly doesn't agree with older ways of looking at him. Peterson may show us a better way to interpret it all.

And SJWs worship victims, not martyrs.

He often says it took him years to figure out basic concepts. I think what he means is that it took him years to fully understand and realize them and their implications.

>>129987952
chirst is characterized by bearing the cross with love and no grudge

Ive listened to a few of his lectures like 3 times.

What I am getting out of this is Americans need to take over Christianity, we need to build castles and cathedrals and no more idolizing that cuckborn Jesus of Nazareth. The true power of the bible lies in the literature and history and national characters.

All creation is good is deep stuff too. Still trying to digest it.

>>129991690
you didnt understand him

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>>129991690
I think the idea that Jesus was cucked is pretty unfair. Jesus did some pretty great stuff, but is often taken out of context.

For example, all the talk of mercy, kindness, giving, etc. In modern times that's all been coopted by hippies into the current cuckstianity. But consider it in any state before the past 50 years and it looks very different. He was offering a guide for building strong communities and in groups. His teachings are very different when the readers take a strong ingroup preference for their family and people as a default. They are only cucky when you are in a society that has broken down all categories and is doing the multiculti, one world one people bullshit. This isn't what his teachings talk about at all.

The other problem is that we're overly individualistic. His teachings are good on the societal level, not necessarily the individual. In other words, you want as many of your neighbors to be Christlike as possible, but you don't necessarily want to be too much that way yourself, or to have too many people follow his example of martyrdom. Remember, Christ did NOT tell people to martyr themselves like he was.

The biggest problem Christianity has right now is has badly misunderstood it is. If you go back even 100 years, these problems don't really exist. It is unfair for us to judge something so old and that has proven itself so many times based on the modern hijacked version.

All this Peterson worship and nobody even posted about he continuously rips trannies apart for being fucking faggots.

>hates commies
>hates degenerates
>pro psychedelics

I love this guy

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>>129992901
For anyone who wants a more indepth look into mistaken perspectives on Christ, as well as a ton of interesting info on Da Joos, I recommend:

http://www.socialmatter.net/2016/08/29/ascending-tower-episode-xvii-part-1-gaslighting-christians/

>>129988696
Wow that's pretty cool friend. Got anymore JBP wallpapers?

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>>129993447
Sorry, dumped pretty much my whole JBP folder here already. I need more too.

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>>129993539
Damn that's a great shame. Was hoping my computer would sort itself out, clean up its load caches and such.

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>>129994197

ill dump mine

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>>129994640

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>>129994686

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>>129994738

My gott, this ist pure ideology.

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>>129994776

>>129994801

what you believe to be good and bad is ideology

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white pill

>>129979786
A psych that needs anti-depressants to function

kinda makes you think doesn't it?

Clean up your room Peterson

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>>129994940

>>129994890
I hope you realise that when he says "Sort yourself out" he doesnt mean "Form a cult of personality around my enigma"

>>129979786
this guy doesn't like nazis

what has pol become?

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>>129994963

Are psychs supposed to not?

>>129994776
With anti-depressants?

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>>129994640
>>129994686
>>129994738
>>129994776
>>129994835
>>129994940
>>129994979
Thanks buckos, these are great. Might have to start a folder here.

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>>129995002

what makes you think anyone is doing that?

>>129995059
would you take diet advice from an obese diabetic?

>>129995105

there is nothing wrong with anti-depressants if you need them.

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>>129995192

If he was a doctor yes, he is a doctor.

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>>129995274

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>>129995002
>Sees people sorting themselves out
>Gets jealous and tries too shoot them down

You know, you're the kind of person wh-
>That flag

Oh ok, on your way

>tfw the only video I haven't watched of his is the last hardvard lecture

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>>129995319

one of my favs

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>>129979786
Has anyone in this thread also read The Decline of the West by Oswald Spengler?

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>>129995387

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>>129995428

>>129995205
bullshit

they are brain destroying poison that don't address the causes of the problem

https://ssristories.org/

wake up normie.

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>>129995502

well since someone on 4chan said it then it must be true

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>>129995580

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>>129995617

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>>129995695

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>>129995744

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>>129995820

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>>129995844

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>>129995866

ok that's the end of my folder, hope you enjoyed.

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Note to fanboys:

Peterson is a scheduled speaker for the REBEL Live event on Saturday, at Canada Christian College in Toronto.

>>129995580
hey normie, did you read Huxley's Brave New World?

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I feel like hes trying really really really hard to avoid the natural conclusions so that he can appeal to the public.

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>>129995950
https://www.therebel.media/the_rebel_live_june_17_2017

https://youtu.be/VV8F3h8NXKw

https://youtu.be/1FoD-ue1Jrs

>>129995419

Partly - have the major gist of it.

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>>129996155
That's a lot of leafs

So I've watched the Joe Rogan podcasts, what's next?

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>>129996245
I really fucking doubt that.

>>129996370
Try his personal YouTube channel, Anon.

Hey guys, so I'm going to be making some Jordan B Peterson synth wave, because i'm bored out of my skull. depending on how fast I am at it, and how good I make it I might post it in chat

>>129996448

Why's that?

>>129995040
What are you talking about? The guy uses the "cultural marxism" dogwhistle, he's pandering to neo-nazis in most of his talks. Sometimes he does pre-emptive damage control by "virtue signaling" the nazis were evil.

>>129997171
Because it is a 1000 page work of Romantic philosophy. You don't get the gist from reading part of it. Particularly from skipping the last chapter.

The reason why I bring it up is that if you understand the metaphysics he lays out, it is evident that Peterson is projecting individualism, Darwinism, pragmatism, psychological energism (Jungian thought)- in short, the major themes of Northern European civilization- backwards onto not only the Mesopotamians, Hebrews, and Russians, but onto the human race in its entirety. Thus he is blind to the civilizational/racial component of his values and believes himself to be a Liberal universalist.

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>>129997714
forgot image

>>129997714

Peterson is, quite simply, a classical liberal. His thought inevitably devolves into that against which he is fighting.

Regarding Spengler, you can get the gist of it by reading parts of Spengler, viewing the civilizational chart he provides, and from secondary sources - including Collingwood's 'The Idea of History.' There are also a few good blog sites explaining Spengler's thoughts. Admittedly, I didn't understand a thing regarding his chapter on numbers. There are simplified explanations. In all, you can get the gist of Spengler's work through direct examination in combination with secondary sources. I understand your point, though.

>>129995002
but its funny

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Dumping

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The end

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>>129997988
>Admittedly, I didn't understand a thing regarding his chapter on numbers
Well there you go. If you don't understand how math ties into his aesthetics, you didn't understand a thing. Don't resort to summaries, read the entire thing while also reading whatever he references whenever you can.

Regarding classical liberalism- that ideology is the essence and soul of that which Peterson claims to reject. What is frustrating is that strong-minded people like him get into a position of authority and end up leading people down false paths. I agree with 94% of what he says, it is mainly the aura that others cultivate around him (ie the guy making synthwave, all these fucking memes) is where most people go wrong.

He is a hero.

>>129998594

Pft. I don't have time to read Decline of the West in its entirety. I'd rather pick it apart and rely on secondary sources - at least for the time being. Moreover, I don't think understanding Spengler's view on numbers is essential to gaining an general understanding of his philosophy.

>>129995205
>there is nothing wrong with anti-depressants if you need them.
Sure anon continue to take what is more or less a chemical lobotomy.
The problem with anti depressants is they never fix the root of the problem, They only give you a false sense of happiness but the problem at hand still remains.
So go on anon don't fix your problem continue to believe you're happy, But don't cry when you find yourself still depressed after going off your meds.

>>129987952
Maybe it took him years while he was young?

>>129999009
There is legit place in medicine for anti-depressants.But like in 0.5% of the prescriptions used today.

>>129998846
Mathematics is world-building. A High Culture is born out of a fear of death– mathematics de-worlds the world, freezes it, makes it accessible to the inner eye and thus one to obtain knowledge and make events predictable. Every different High Culture has a qualitatively different conception of number, and thus develops a correspondingly different metaphysical world-picture out of its mathematics. Thus the first form of expression in a Culture is religious architecture, which is mathematics rendered in stone.

>>129983635
Clean your room faggot.

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he said that solzhenitsyn thought the Nuremberg trials the most important trials as the most important event in the last century and he agrees.
I have a hard time to see a kangaroo court (with the USSR of all powers on it) laying down revenge on the defeated Germany to be anything moral or good. I wonder why he thinks that.

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S O R T
O
R
T

>>130000008
Because he believes that the Nuremberg trials somehow establish an objective bottom floor for morality. This is essentially a rhetorical point, one that exploits the sensibilities of the modern Western liberal/leftist, but nonetheless is logically indefensible and moreover doesn't even square with his pragmatism.

>>130000008
Because if the clinton-mafia falls,the Nürnberg-trials will be the reason every shill that worked for them will be jailed too.

>>130000475
So the winner takes all? Nothing groundbreaking here.

>>130000475
so if you lose you can be punished even more in the name of some morality?

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>>129995927
>>129998132
Thanks folks!

>>129996581
Do it, but post it in JBP threads regularly or something so I can find it.

>>129997613
My impression from his lectures is that he sees a role for both order and chaos in society, ie conservatism and liberalism. He thinks the Nazis were a case of order and society's immune system going too far. But as you indicate, reading between the lines, he certainly seems to be suggesting that we need more order. But the goal should probably be a walled garden, not a concentration camp. I wonder if he'd oppose the Nazi's OTHER than the killing of the jews and the racial supremacy stuff?

>>129997988
That sounds about right. But he seems conservative in comparison to modern lefties because the middle point has swum so far left.

>>129999290
>There is legit place in medicine for anti-depressants.
>But like in 0.5%
True, There is about 0.5% of the population who actually need them for chemical imbalances in the brain.
But the problem is(lets use america) about 16% 1 in 6 of the population using antidepressants for problems that they claim are unfixable. Such as, I don't have a good relationship with my family, I don't feel valued as a human, My boss gets mad at me, I'm over weight, I don't have friends.
All of these are fixable but people who depend on them claim it's the world who has the problem not themselves.There in no reason for people to take them, They are not tackling the problem to actually help them but glossing over it.

>>130000000
what was it?

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>>130000008
It is possible to think it is important and understand that the specific rulings were flawed. He says exactly why he thinks it, so no need to wonder!

I don't recall his exact words, but the general idea is that it is important because it established certain things are moral wrongs regardless of culture. It was anti-moral relativism. People were able to get together and say "Doing X is wrong, regardless of who does it." And I think that IS important, because it says that there is a higher morality than the specific culture of any group.

Now, if we agree that they chose X correctly, or if the specifics of the cases brought against the Nazi's and their verdicts were fair and just is a whole other matter.

>>130001070
>People were able to get together
not people but the winners and only the winners. it wasn't a tribunal of uninvolved/neutral countries but only the ones most interested on really buttfucking germany.

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>>130000782
>My impression from his lectures is that he sees a role for both order and chaos in society, ie conservatism and liberalism.

He has come to that position by flattening out any ideological differences. Thus the conservatives he has in mind are classical liberals, and the liberals he has in mind are left liberals. To take this and turn it towards National Socialism is a radical example of a lens warping your perception of reality. Of course Nazism is going to seem like an exceptional deviation if the basis of your theory is an entirely different ideological basis.

>>129998655
he should an hero

he probably will, it's a common side effect of anti-depressants.

>>130000873
this

>>129999009
this

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>>130001278
>Of course Nazism is going to seem like an exceptional deviation if the basis of your theory is an entirely different ideological basis.
I'm too damn tired to proofread.

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>>129999427
its been a white since ive seen a quality poster

thank you anon

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>>130001243
Yes, and it was a massive improvement over how this sort of thing was handled previously in such situations. A bunch of people got fucked, but that is much better than being exterminated or enslaved. Compare the fates of East and West Germany, or compare either to how things were handled in the old days.

It looks harsh compared to European wars of the middle ages and Renessiance, but these were very different. They weren't the sort of ideological total warfare that we got into in the 20th century and aren't a proper comparison point.

And then also account for the lasting legacy of Nuremberg, which has been pretty solid as far as I can tell. I'm not arguing it was all fair and good. But I do think parts of it were significant advances in how we do things, and have had several lasting positive effects.

>>130001278
You are probably correct, but it's hard to say how far he goes. But I'm not too concerned because most of h is focus is on meta politics and anti-communism, not specific political issues or ideological debates (except for communism as mentioned).

>>129983791
nah that's steven sondheim from their broadway episode, they don't air again till august or september or something

>>130000873
the argument is that being overwhelmed by problems like being heartbroken, stressed at work and fractions in your family makes it nearly impossible to fix any of them. so anti-depressants can buoy you up in those tough times and allow you to work to fix the root problems.

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>>130001723
>But I'm not too concerned because most of h is focus is on meta politics and anti-communism, not specific political issues or ideological debates (except for communism as mentioned).

This comes back to the problem with his classical liberalism. He takes a classical liberal viewpoint and attempts to step it up to the level of 1. psychological fact, i.e. difference in big 5 temperaments, and then 2. mythological archetypes through interpretations of Mesopotamian religion and the Bible, in order to trace out the role of politics in society (i.e. metapolitics). Trace back my comments and I've laid out with issues with both. He starts with classical liberalism, and ends with classical liberalism. Neat fucking trick.

>but it's hard to say how far he goes.
I don't understand what you mean by this. Do you mean how does this affect the scope of his insights/limit its applicability? I would say when it comes to different ideological regimes. Most Americans are liberal, thus Peterson's work would apply for the most part. But most Germans before 1945 were not, and most Russians before 1991 were not, because you are dealing with an entirely different spectrum of different in relation to political belief.

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>>130001695
Thank you anon. We should all be trying to do better.

>>129997613
Wow, autistic Nazis will go to GREAT lengths to imagine people dogwhistling to them apparently

JBP denounces Nazism and the alt right in pretty much every interview constantly, shows up with (((gad saad))) and on (((rebel media))) every couple days, and says he hates Nazism and considers SJWs to be a Nazi-like movement in like 100 YouTube videos.

Keep dreaming anon.

>>130002448
>you are dealing with an entirely different spectrum of different in relation to political belief.
That got garbled. I meant
>you are dealing with an entirely different spectrum of temperament in relation to political belief.
Thus what connotes a "healthy" expression of political belief would slide around depending on what regime you are in. In Soviet Union it is advantageous to be neurotic and agreeable, in the Third Reich to be conscientious and disagreeable, and so on.

>>129979786
Holy shit stop talking as if this guy is the second coming of Jesus. He's a smart guy but glorified as fuck on the internet due to him standing up politically against the marxists.

You guys seem to think he has this amazing understanding of psychology that no one else has, but there are plenty of professors like him, he just got some attention. He's no "groundbreaking thinker" or anything, you all just show yourselves to be idiots.

Not hating on Jordan, good guy, smart, says some interesting things. But please... just chill with the "he changed my life wow he's like the Plato of our time he's breaking the conditioning". Sad!

>>130002672

At the same time, he has not outright denounced the alt-right's ethnocentric agenda believing it to conform to the father/son dichotomy. He just worries that there is the potential for the father ( the nation ) to trample over the son ( the individual ).

>>130002342
I can understand the argument or the reason why people say they are beneficial. But the problem is, People use then to the same effect as alcohol. It becomes do i drink myself to happiness or overdose on pills to happiness. Both options are not accepting and facing the problem. But giving it a mask. What ever the problem the person is facing never gets resolved, only swept under the rug.

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>>130002448
>He starts with classical liberalism, and ends with classical liberalism. Neat fucking trick.

I think he is correctly observing that Western society has been (relatively) liberal throughout history, and is tracing the roots of that. He is not saying "What we believe is right because of <stuff in the past>", he is saying "We appear to have developed our current beliefs because of <stuff in the past>."

The West has always been higher on liberalism than other parts of the world. Peterson seems to be claiming that it is because of the fundamental ideas and myths of our society. But I don't see in his work that he is claiming that classical liberalism is perfect or the best goal. He seems to think that modern progressivism has gone off the rails because, while we have generally been liberal, we've also had parts of our traditions that kept it in check. He seems to be comparison classical liberalism to progressivism and marxism, which it certainly beats. He's not comparing it to other potential systems and ideologies.

Classical liberalism has a lot of problems, but overall it would be nice if we could revert back to it, and then go in a different direction next time.

anyone have the self authoring suit?

>>130002969
some people have shit lives and the pills allow them to tolerate continuing on living a shit life. that's no good.
some people have shit lives and the pills give them the motivation and help they need to stand up and start fixing things. that's good.

just depends which you are.

>>130002909
is that so? name a couple

>>129984152
Learn some critical thinking on yourself dude. Just like, start with the fucking Greeks already.

>>130003474
Name Jordan before he got "famous" from a youtube vid.
That's right, you couldn't have.
There are professors like him in many universities.

But then, YOU can name any subject he's so "genius" in, and not just holding a lecture with info anyone could have gotten elsewhere, and that he does better than anyone else?

>>129986031
>http://www94.zippyshare.com/v/ToVac7C1/file.html

>introduction ends "Shadilay, March 2017"

shadilay brothers

>>130003778
you make big claims so pony up some names or go fucked.

>>130003012
>I think he is correctly observing that Western society has been (relatively) liberal throughout history, and is tracing the roots of that.
Right off the bat that is not true, certainly not for three thousand years (which is where he starts in mythology). Modern Liberalism was originally an English construct that was brought into France by Freemasons like Voltaire, which then was spread by Napoleon after they toppled the monarchy. There are historical roots to liberalism, yes, but as I've said earlier he is projecting that heritage back to the Bronze Age, which is nothing more than solipsism. A liberal is seeing liberalism.

The West has not historically more liberal than other parts of the world. The Greeks did not permit women to leave their houses without male accompaniment, and had no conception of mercy towards enemies. Read the Iliad to get a sense of this. Compare this to the Persians, an eastern culture which tolerated religious minorities, freed the Jews, and used state mandated multiculturalism. Western culture has no decisive liberal bent, it is instead HEROIC which is evident in Homeric, German, and Celtic culture. The logical endpoint of this tendency is not Liberalism, but Fascism.

Regarding whether Liberalism is superior to Marxism, I would generally disagree. Eastern Europe will eventually recover from Communism. If the West is allowed to continue in its current track, however, it will no longer exist by the end of this century. Post 1965 Liberalism does not allow for any second chances. The problem is that Peterson wants to go back to 1991, which simply isn't enough.

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>>130002909
>>130003778

>"How dare you like what this guy is saying and get excited about these ideas! Don't you know that sophisticated people like me have known about this stuff long before it became available to you plebs."

SORT

>>130003834
It's you guys who make big claims, saying that Jordan Peterson comes with something new. Tell me what ideas he delivers that are so great and unique for him, then I'll tell you.

>>130004121
I did nothing of that sort. the fact that you are avoiding like crazy is a clear sign of your agenda

>>130003778

Who cares if there are more professors like him? That's not really the point, at all. People are fed up with the garbage going on in the culture, and Peterson actually took a stand and spoke up against it in a well-articulated way unlike his colleagues. That's what we need right now, and people have chosen him to be someone to rally behind. As a bonus, the other resources he offers serve as a gateway for others to expand their knowledge of the Western canon so that we can better articulate what we already felt was right.

>>130004072
I literally said he's a smart guy and I like him. However, when people portray someone like a messiah and pretend he's some groundbreaking figure you need to call it out.

>>130004019
>and had no conception of mercy towards enemies
Greeks took enemies to work as their slaves. It's a form of mercy, even if they didn't realize it.

>>130004121
trap: no idea is unique.

>>130003304
But the problem anon is people only use pills, drugs or alcohol as you say
>allow them to tolerate continuing on living a shit life.
Is it better for a person to ignore a problem they are facing or to accept it and make an effort to improve or better themselves.
Like i said before i can understand why people use them as a crutch but it is harmful to simply deny or ignore your problems.
And yes it might be hard or harder to accept one owns problems if they are throw upon your shoulders or unfairly given to you. But you can only come out a better person if you confront them head on.

>>130004189

What am I avoiding? I am simply asking you to point out what makes Jordan different. Since that was what I opposed from the start.
So he's not special, then?

>>130004210
It's not a trap. It's simple, tell me what makes Jordan different.

>>130004336
>What am I avoiding?
>>130003474

>>130000702
You didnt had that problem when soldiers following orders were sentenced to death at Nürnberg.

>>130004203
Yeah and I agree with all of that. It's just a bit tiring with all the Jordan memeing, making him seem like some super genius. It will turn people off from actually listening to what he has to say.

>>130002342
Anti-depressants dont buoy you up to fix the root problems.It makes you forget there is something to fix.Big difference.Also anti-depressants are legal drugs,most of them are addictive in the range of heroin.You shoot sparrows with a 480mm battleship gun.

>>130004432
I actually discovered him half a year before he blew up in late 2016, it's funny seeing the process of how the audience rapidly degrades as it gets bigger. He used to respond to your comments in great detail on his videos.

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>>130004019
>Right off the bat that is not true

I know Western Europe has been fairly high on individuality for a long time, and had a fair amount of female autonomy and "rights" going back at least a couple thousand years. You seem to know more about the history than I do though, so I will defer.

>Regarding whether Liberalism is superior to Marxism, I would generally disagree. Eastern Europe will eventually recover from Communism. If the West is allowed to continue in its current track, however, it will no longer exist by the end of this century. Post 1965 Liberalism does not allow for any second chances.

It will eventually recover from Communism because Communism ended. Part of why it ended was because of post 1965 Liberalism. I do agree that what we're fighting now is very tricky and threatens to cement itself as a permanent "Utopia", but I don't think it's inevitable yet. And a lot of the reason it is so insidious is that it has the advantage of technology, and it has had the advantage of learning from Marxism's fall. If the Soviets had had better tech, they probably would have lasted longer too. It's very difficult to compare something this complex. In the 1930's, Marxism could have also felt like it was insurmountable. I'm not dismissing the threat of modern progressivism, especially with the demographic risks, just saying that it's hard to really compare it all.

>The problem is that Peterson wants to go back to 1991, which simply isn't enough.

It certainly isn't. But it's the first step. And we need to get sorted out if we want to even make it that far. We shouldn't take all his specific ideas as gospel, but the overall idea of self improvement+picking up past traditions and social technology is solid. There's nothing wrong with gateways.

Another thing he is doing that we haven't really touched on yet is pushing back against a lot of Rationalist ideas, which is also an important step, as Rationalism provides a lot of the intellectual ammo used by Progs.

>>130004741
I started out as a liberal and ended up as a nazi.Fun part is my views didnt changed one bit.

>>130004336
>I am simply asking you to point out what makes Jordan different.
Look at the type of people who j.p speaks for. Teens and young men who feel undervalued, unappreciated he resonates with them. He is unbiased in his opinions and gives people who are lost a reason to try harder.
>It's just a bit tiring with all the Jordan memeing,
This i agree with he is a smart man with a good message that might get lost in the memes.

Can someone convince me to get back into this guy?

At first I loved him for his anti sjw stuff but then when starts spouting biblical bullshit he loses me.

>>130004905
>Can someone convince me to get back into this guy?

No, why? If you're done, you're done.

>>130004905
alter your presupposition about religion

>>130004905
>Can someone convince me to get back into this guy?
Easy.
If you see yourself as an actual intellectual not just a fedora tipper you will look at what he say with an open mind not just
>biblical bullshit
And you will see how a lot of what he says correlates with are society.

>>130004905
grow up

Has he ever spoken about bowden? He acts like hes a centrist but really hes still right wing, hes a softer more centrist version of bowden. What they both have in common is a deep understanding of the underlying mythos of human existence. They along with Campbell, whos yet a softer version of Peterson, had the distilled knowledge of the last great line of philosophers, namely schopenhauer Nietzsche eliade and jung. The key to the salvation of the west is the rediscovery and rearticulation of the human mythos as a means of grounding and transcendence

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>>130004741
>I know Western Europe has been fairly high on individuality for a long time, and had a fair amount of female autonomy and "rights" going back at least a couple thousand years
You are in a sense correct, but this is because Northern Europe was not advanced enough to develop much social stratification. All hunter gatherer groups are egalitarian. Where the greatest proportion of hunter gatherer influence remained after the Indo European invasion, in Scandinavia, is where the Germanics originated from. They brought this fairly egalitarian culture with them, but gradually became more hierarchical after coming into contact with the Celts and Romans. The Celts inducted much influence from both hunter gatherers and the Neolithic farmers (who had a matriarchal fertility cult, hence goddess worship). However Peterson does not point towards Europeans as the root of individualism, he points to Mesopotamia and Egypt. This is where I begin to see projection on his part.

Let me be more specific than the second line you quoted: the reason why contemporary liberalism (and by this I include peterson as a member) is more insidious than communism is because it is bringing this culture to an end, not temporarily freezing it under an ice sheet under which it is unable to adapt and develop.

>But it's the first step
But is this step in the right direction? How does one exactly sort themselves out? Peterson castigates Nietzsche for believing that one could consciously will oneself to become greater. The same criticism can be applied here. The average man cannot master himself, which is of course is why many people choose to worship Peterson instead of actually fulfilling the goal he sets out for them.

>Rationalism provides a lot of the intellectual ammo used by Progs.
Rationalism is the punching bag for postmodernism. Rationalists can only criticize, not create.

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>>130005594
I was on the shitter so let me continue posting from my PC.

What thinkers like Peterson, Bowden and Campbell have done is reintroduce the concepts of the heroic myth and the ritual of initiation to a generation of young men who never even knew this is what they lacked (in case you ever wondered why capeshit has become so popular).

Here's a very relevant anecdote by Campbell on this issue https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU

And of course there's the primordial western heroic myth of the Odyssey. In this regard I think Peterson is doing a great job of showing the difference between scientific and mythological truth.

Most of the underlining truth of mythology is lost to the modern world because everyone just takes it at face value. Posts like this >>130004905 being a prime example. And if you say "yeah I know the bible is just allegory but I still think it doesn't have any value to modern man" then you clearly don't understand those stories and myths at a core level.

Anyway it's just good to see this is happening. The rephrasing of core human mythology so that it becomes directly compatible with modernity is the most critical issue of the day.

>>130005594
He has not ever mentioned Bowden, Evola, Vico, or any other rightist thinker. He has read Mircea Eliade, who frequently corresponded with Evola. He has made off the cuff remarks about Campbell, mostly by ridiculing the "follow your bliss" message, and of course Campbell was influenced by Spengler. Peterson is about two degrees removed from Traditionalism. Someone from /pol/ should really reach out to him and get him to read some of these works.

>>130004905
sure, get over yourself

>>130006662
Nicely said

>>130006717
I don't think he's removed from traditionalism at all. I think he understands the value of it every clearly. In his case it's probably his aversions to ideology and particularly to extremes that makes him less inclined to mention it out loud. Deep down he must know all his core beliefs align with the right but he probably doesn't want to deal with the shitstorm that would ensue if he flat out stated he was right wing.

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>>130006374
Well said. I'll think about it. For now, gotta sleep, but thanks for the chat.

>>129993203
Mind.
Blown.

>>130005594
I don't know, maybe a bit. I think we should look at the deep philosophical moral stance they both take. JP has on numerous instances stated that the time where human societies are able to kill for their beliefs are past us, because of the mass death from our technology and so on. His definition of evil is to do needless harm, but that is extremely blurry for me. He also says that evil is ideological possession, which is not needless harm to the one carrying it out, but absolutely necessary harm. I think this aversion to physical conflict sets him at odds with Bowden, who as a pagan sees conflict and violence as a moral good, together with cooperation and love of course.

You shouldn't forget the differences in egalitarianism either (I'm not talking in a material tabula rasa way). JPs arguments against immigration if any are always cultural, never racial, and most of his friends are Jewish. I think JP wants to bring the light of Jesus Christ to the whole of humanity, while Bowden is at his core tribal. I have a hard time reconciling Spengler with JP, for example.

Although at 32:35 here someone mentions Evola and he's nodding fervently, whatever that means.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UL-SdOhwek

>>130006717
You can be 100% sure that he's met those thinkers. Evola no doubt, I can't see how he could escape him even if he wanted to if he was going to do honest research for maps of meaning, which I think he has done.

>>129995487
>anime news network
what are they doing reporting on petersons battles?

>>130006935
He is definitely a few degrees removed from traditionalism, otherwise he wouldn't deign to call himself a liberal. The roots of liberalism is a prolonged revolt against tradition, which is called Progress. Now, his comparison of Lucifer to the archetypal revolutionary is getting close to the traditional viewpoint, and I commend him for making that connection. However he still looks at the degradation of the Egyptian caste system, with the Osiris cult brought from being centered on the Pharaoh to being applied each individual, as part of a long chain of progression towards liberal democracy.

I wouldn't pretend to know what he secretly thinks. I think he is stumbling down a path leading to traditionalism, except this personality cult surrounding him may prevent him from growing intellectually by preventing him from publicly contradicting himself, leading to widespread derision, liberals pulling their Patreon support, people unsubscribing from his YouTube channel, etc.

>>129984152

Peterson doesn't understand Nietzsche and in some sense he insults his legacy by using him to justify his tendency towards Christianity. Nietzsche despised popularism and this tendency to become accepted by the masses which Peterson indulges in endlessly; Nietzsche would have never cared about publicly defending ideas or values like Peterson does.

>>129984152
His two talks with Sam Harris has been adversarial, and the second the most useful.

>>130007645
Nietzsche may have ideally wanted a moral system beyond and above the christian doctrine but he recognized that would not be attainable except for a very few. And even if he disliked Christianity he recognized it's necessity.

The only thing I've heard him say about Nietzsche was that he captured the pulse of the time, that traditionalism and mythic truth had become lost and that the people who lost it would suffer. Which is all correct.

>>130007343
I think he was acknowledging the comment on his message, not signalling his familiarity with Evola. Regarding maps of meaning, this was developed in the 80s and 90s. It would be hard for an Albertan dish washer to get his hands on a copy of Evola, much less delve deep enough to find a reference to him. None of his favorite thinkers have mentioned Evola (not so sure about Mircea Eliade, I think Peterson has mentioned reading a few works by him but not everything out there).

>>130008024
His research is ongoing. I can't possibly see how a loser like me can stumble over him with ease immediately after looking just a bit about metaphysical ideas and JP missing him. Probably not in the eighties but definitely the last decade.

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>>130006662
The reason why there is a split between our science and our mythology is that the worldview each is based on are inconsistent. The Christian religion brings with it the Platonic cosmos of seven spheres, one for each planet plus the Sun and Moon, with the Earth as its center, separated from the heavens by the Firmament and the world Ocean.
Our scientific worldview posits instead a Universe of purely efficient infinite space. How do you orient human behavior in this context? No one man has been able to answer this question. Maybe someone will successfully do it, becoming the next Moses or Buddha. Who knows.

>>130008259
He needs to lurk more.

>>129983635
>using money to get religion
>getting money in order to work
You aren't jewish enough desu. Sleep upside down like a bat (vampire) and you should see.

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>>130008015

Well, Nietzsche didn't care about the masses at all while he recognized that Christianity was necessary for the creation of European civilization, he was already convinced that it was functionally dead by that point.

The Christianity that Peterson promotes is never going to catch on because you can't be blindly faithful and scientifically rational at the same time; He recognized that soft people like Peterson would try to bridge the gap in vain but he didn't believe that it was a worthwhile endeavor; That is precisely what he was trying to say in beyond good and evil; To move beyond dogmatic concepts of morality and towards the over-man instead; a man of strength who's only calling is the will to power and whose only ideal is the AESTHETIC.

Why is Jordan B Peterson anti women?

He seems to be like some pep speaker, only for men, yet wants to catogorise and demonise women.

>>130006662
I have the entire collection of works by Joseph Campbell, including audio and video. Would anyone be interested if I uploaded it?

>>130008917
You still don't get it those are just details that arise from the imperfect knowledge of that time. What the Christian dogma says about the physical world and it's nuts and bolts interactions is close to irrelevant. The purpose of the myth is to teach the soul how to live a good life, not how the cosmos works.

You obviously realize that in 2000 years theories like relativity or quantum mechanics will be so much more developed, or replaced all together, that it will make today's understanding seem totally naive and incomplete.

This is not what you should be focusing on when looking into myth.

>>130009177
Yes and I think Peterson is closer to the truth here because you don't need the traditional dogmatic Christian faith. That's never what the important subject was, but the myths and stories and the underling ethic and moral teachings. You don't need to be a blind faithful Christian to let the primordial values (which by the way go back way further than Christianity) guide your way of life.

>>130009238
He's not anti women. He recognizes the issue with the west today and the issue is with men, not women. Today we live in as close of a matriarchy as there has ever been. Nowhere in human history as the heroic, paternal, male figure been so heavily demonized and removed from family and social life as in the present day west.

There is no problem in modernity with the feminine side except that it has become dominant. The problem is with masculinity or the lack of. And lack of masculinity hurts females just as much, if not more, than it hurts men.

So it makes total sense that any philosophical discourse in the present should focus on masculinity and how to regain it both in private life and in greater society.

>>130009266

please do! perhaps mega or tpb?

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>>130009352
>What the Christian dogma says about the physical world and it's nuts and bolts interactions is close to irrelevant.

It is not irrelevant because Christianity specifically places emphasis on Christ's physical, human body and the specific historical event that occurred during his crucifixion. What you said is heresy according to the very basic teachings of that religion.
In contrast, it does not matter to the Buddhists whether there was actually a man named Gautama Buddha at all.

You cannot orient your life if you do not have an understanding of your environment. Every myth posits a cosmos. The hunters of Eurasia, for example, had to reconcile themselves to the act of killing. Thus they posited a spiritual membrane through which spirits reincarnate, and a contract of killing/honoring between humans and animals.

>You obviously realize that in 2000 years theories like relativity or quantum mechanics will be so much more developed, or replaced all together, that it will make today's understanding seem totally naive and incomplete.

This is exactly my point. Things have been changing so fast that our myths are unable to keep up. Now the general picture of infinite time and space hasn't changed since Copernicus, but the details (no space is not Euclidean, it is Riemannean, no mechanics is not deterministic, it is probabilistic, etc.) are simply insufficient to integrate into an ordered mythos at the present. I think you injecting a lot of assumptions into my posts for absolutely no reason.

>>130009352

>you don't need the traditional dogmatic Christian faith

Dogmatic faith is the only

What is the point of believing in god if you have to philosophize and rationalize it ? Faith needs to exist in itself; Dogmatic faith is real faith and all monotheistic religions need to be dogmatic in order to exist at all.

>let the primordial values

Do you brainlets just regurgitate what Peterson says or can you think for yourself for a moment ?
What are these primordial values ? Wolf pack morality ? The most primordial of all values is a will to power and a will to beauty.

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Why do you retards always become obsequious cuckolds to every e-famous male

>milo
>molyneux
>trump as a bonus
>To a lesser degree, sargon, hexenhammer, commonfilth and fucking pewdiepie

And now you're slavishly idolising Peterson. Why?

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>>130010345

POO

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>>129979786

>>130009837
>Nowhere in human history as the heroic, paternal, male figure been so heavily demonized and removed from family and social life as in the present day west.
Do you think this affects the normal population though? Look at it from a 'normie' perspective, and you'll see that no man is being demonised. It's normally just shit that expanded on college campuses and internet.

It's not like I'm never seeing white men around. In fact, I see men out happy and doing their own thing all the time.

Where is this attack on men coming from, really?

>Today we live in as close of a matriarchy
I mean I wouldn't go that far. It's mostly men in politics, banking, and all the other important shit. Not to mention that men still earn A LOT more than women on average.

Also, are you saying that a world where ''women rule'' would be miserable?

>>130010673
>It's normally just shit that expanded on college campuses and internet.
whatever plays out in these environments will seep out into meatspace, ya dingus

>>130009966
Mega. It will be up in probably a few hours. Keep this thread bumped with discussion until then.

>>130010404
Read this thread, it's pretty good.

>>130010777
but I don't see it

I've literally never seen shit like ''A FUCKING WHITE MALE'', and I live in a big town.

I've come across a few progressives when visiting my friend at a college, but even the normies of college see this radical progressive shit as unorthodox

Meanwhile in the real world, people are normal, working, having a relationship, doing shit, etc

>>130010673
you having a laugh. this is shit is getting pushed on every level in education. and when the generation of weak numales meets actual men from niggistan we get those funny videos of some cucks crying for mommy while getting beaten

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>>130009837
Don't reply to the obvious bait.

>>130010951
Thanks anon, am liking this thread so far.

What can be done about fedora-tippers and their nihilistic circlejerk about anything mythlike or religious? They even interpret their appreciation of story in the modern world as pure hedonism. Also I do not understand their aggression. It seems to go hand in hand with calling everyone discussing his words a cuck for even listening to anyone. Well basically i don't understand the opposition, since it's clear his work is academic in nature and he was thrust into the spotlight because somebody tried to push him where he did not want to move.

>>130011732
>you having a laugh. this is shit is getting pushed on every level in education
source?

and if so, why would they push it?

>>130010673
>Do you think this affects the normal population though? Look at it from a 'normie' perspective, and you'll see that no man is being demonised.
Wrong. Homer Simpson has become the archetype, divorce the law.

>>130012566
really? all that gender shit, gay shit, toxic masculinity, only female teachers, only far left teachers, etc etc
just watch any of the alt light like sargon. it's like you live behind the moon

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I came across Peterson 3 days ago and it felt like discovering a new continent of thoughts and ideas in my head of which I didn't know it was there

Now I'm binging his videos, his 2nd discussion with Joe Rogan and his discussion with Molymeme are my favorites so far

>>130011176
>>130012566

Are you by any chance a woman?

You are drawing a line between progressive 'extremism' and the normal world where none should exist. You can see the chance in higher education and the tone of the media by reading any kind of academic material from humanities separated by about a decade. But I think you're not exactly clear on what the other anon meant. The fact that you mention that a lot of "men" seem to be bankers etc suggests to me you're quite on board with the modern group-vs-group perspective and you don't notice you're breathing it in anymore, i.e. blue-pilled.

> source?

>>130012857

Anon is making the case that it's all fringe and none of that "weird" extremism is normal to ordinary progressives, which is bullshit since the entire society has been bulling so hard to the left that you can't even make sense of statements like that. But anyway it's good that they are appalled by the modern left, not so good if they think that their own politics are the magical goldilocks point of juuuust about enough progressivism.

Anyway, if you buy all the ordinary progressive ideology that's being blasted at you 24/7 then indeed the only thing that stands out is the weird phenomenon of riots and utterly violent feminism etc. So it's a weak defense and I wager that the person is new here.

>>130012857
You're just seeing it from a fear mongering POV, and you're most likely cherry picking, or getting stuff from fake news outlets like breitbart, infowars, daily express, rebel media, and FOX

Education just encourages women to have careers and self improve which is a good thing. Women for years have been brought up with this presence that tells them that they are only housewives. But recently, education doesn't do that.

also I don't see all this ''left wing progressive anti male'' propaganda in media/TV either.

can you give me sources and examples?

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>>130012462
>What can be done about fedora-tippers and their nihilistic circlejerk about anything mythlike or religious? They even interpret their appreciation of story in the modern world as pure hedonism.
Avoiding any in-depth psychoanalysis, I think a general characteristic pf atheists is that many of them are teenagers or are stuck in that mindset. The whole point of the maturation process is the elimination of the protective maternal-paternal barrier, which of course is the role of critical thinking. On the other hand, what do teenagers use this freedom to do? They smoke weed, experiment with drugs, sex, reckless driving, and other irresponsible acts of hedonism. The Amazing Atheist is basically stuck in this stage of life. They value freedom, but freedom for what?

I understand why some people feel negatively about Peterson simply for his popularity. I don't think it is must justified, but it is really a pre-rational thing. I think it's a natural response to when a single person is being 'pushed' into your personal life by other people, because you do not know whether you should be sucked into this latest thing or not.

>>130012857
>>130013185

> fear-mongering POV

called it, we're conspiracy theorists that see the devil where there is none or actively look it up, and then of course education and the state and progressivism has finally released women from their captivity from the past (backward people like breitbart). They were taught oppression for centuries and now our education has seen the light.

Also I still want to bet money that you're a woman, but instead since you went on the offensive after that anon answered your "> source?" question, i'll end with

You're just seeing things from the lofty heights of comfort of your privileged class.

("how dare you! women have been suffering for centuries and are only now clawing back their...!!!!)

>>129995205
>>129995502
You're both right. I speak from bitter experience.

>>130013332

You don't see it because you don't agree with what we're seeing. You are a subscriber to an ideology that you consider Good and True, which is why you think

> breitbart, infowars, daily express, rebel media, and FOX

are all fear-mongering hate factories. You don't want a source because you want to evaluate said source for the ideological content. Of course those news outlets are full of hyperbole and retarded shit, are you telling me that CNN and MSNBC are not just because they adopt a more formal tone?

Besides, I know that if I give you 10 sources of weird shit happening you will still revert to "well that doesn't prove it's mainstream", just like you already said we are subscribing to "fear-mongering". There's no convincing you, you are looking for a source to pounce as being either A) retarded, or B) not indicative of anything.

Tell me, what do you want to learn here?

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>>130013447
Stop responding to the obvious bait. The flag and cliche talking-points are a dead giveaway.

>>130013185
fear mongering? is it fear mongering when they teach kindergardeners about anal sex, let them build a dark room and all that taught by a tranny? all that shit is directly based on progressive agendas.

What's the best way to clean your room /pol/?

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>>129979786
>gets 47k monthly from Patreon
this fuccboi might as well quit his shitty University job and become a "motivational speaker"

>>130013746

Well it's not like I'm doing it for the lady herself. Also Varg would approve of normie pilling bruh

>>130011176
>i don't see it
well, sorry you're not looking? and my point is that if something happens en masse online, or is happening in many post-secondary institutions, it's only a matter of time before it spreads and becomes a serious problem. Unfortunately, it's happened far more already than we can control, and now have to deal with the repercussions of these memes.

>>130013700
I just see films like wonder woman or ghost busters get released, and suddenly there's internet right wingers getting triggered over it because there's a woman role in it

literally every movie or show that gets released is considered a conspiracy around here

>>130012898

Definitely read Maps of Meaning https://jordanbpeterson.com/maps-of-meaning/ and related recommending reading asap, preferably along with the lectures (as it was intended)

>>130012898
None of those are lies. Funny thing, truth and reality.

>>130013799
none of this shit is happening though

in general, women are having careers and improving themselves, and people on /pol/ and other right wingers are getting butthurt about it and want to keep women down for some reason

>>130014454
>in general, women are having careers and improving themselves, and people on /pol/ and other right wingers are getting butthurt about it
In general, we have to censor our words to avoid offending theoretical caricatures that might kill our social life, humiliate us and jail us.

>>130014012

Yeah I get that, and there's plenty of people who are retarded like that. There is a problem with your perception of what the "right wingers" do. I would say there's at least 3 problems

1) there is no such thing as "right-wingers", it is what you lefties like to call a "social construct" (unlike race, which is more socially constructed the way chairs are)
2) you are shown these people raging by an enormously advanced selection bias project, through your media outlets of choice and possibly facebook/twitter networks you are in (this is the rage machine of the media). Note that those "right-wingers" frothing at the mouth are subject to the same treatment with breitbart etc, where you DO diagnose the problem. But you believe your side is the side of Good and True, because you think you can evaluate what you're being shown as being accurate representation of reality.
3) Ideological content is not a boolean thing. If you can not see the ideological underpinnings of something like a Ghostbusters (for which you need to NOT set yourself up in opposition to "right-wingers" because there are no groups) then I would suggest you need to read more widely and experience different cultures.

You view the world as a bunch of groups that are motivated by all kinds of hatred for other groups, whereas your own "progressive" group is actually the mainstream normal opinion of peaceful people going about their lives and wanting freedom and prosperity for all. So now would be a time to grow up, and also stop attacking anonymous people on a forum for the "right-wing hate" you see elsewhere. That's what you accuse the right-wingers of doing, ya dummy.

>>130014454

Oh you went back to this a second time. Okay either you are a girl that gets too outraged to even communicatie when the topic of women comes up, or you're here to yell at your idea of "right-wingers" (seriously, what the fuck are they teaching you people? You think what you're doing is normal here? You think hating on "right-wingers" is good because they're full of "hate"? Kind of proving our point darling)

ohgodhesaiddarling

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>>130014454

>>130014454
>none of this shit is happening though
ok bucko

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jSOzUZ0mms

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>>130014454
Women have become more unhappy than women since the 1960s.

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>>130015236
Fuck, *than men

>>130013440

But he is not being "pushed" on them by anyone anywhere. They are literally chiding and yelling at other people for "following" him. It's a bit like how some fedoras cross the dark border into postmodernism/nihilism and they start getting extremely angry whenever anybody makes a "normative statement" or suggests a kind of morality. There's people who say "ha, morality, it's just a game between humans!" and then there's those that go "get the fuck away from me you mentally oppressing demon".

Actually my running theory is that most of the militant atheists are actually heretics of the progressive/protestant variety, in that are now "free" from their upbringing and attribute the misery they now find themselves in to that past "oppression". Well that and people who want to wank about big-S Science and talk about "lol old dude in the sky".

The maturity thing you mention is true and it would solve the weird aggression and mockery, but in a sense it could be considered a cure for nihilism itself. Doesn't that make it slightly unattainable? There's many people who lead adult lives but are still complete children when it comes to spirituality. It's not that they should/need to think about it (or Peterson), it's that they are VICIOUSLY AGAINST any of it. They think we're all cucks and drones and zombies following the latest fad and throwing our money at something, while they are enlightened by Reason and Evidence etcetc.... They wouldn't be able to make even the most basic analysis of art except maybe aesthetics, but worse they would say that the analysis itself is a childish remnant of our infantile religious past. Lel

>>130014970
well since 200 it's been getting better?

what happened in the 90s?

>>130004072

The black chick is fantastic and putting her ideas out there like Peterson. Who is the desi chick?

That pic is kino as fuck btw, like a League Of Sanity

>>130015236
well no shit, they didn't work, and were leeching NEETS just looking after a few babies for a few years

Give me a quick guide on what to watch from Youtube from him. He has multiple lectures on his book Maps of Meaning, which one is the "basic" of them

also start with the greeks

>>130015405
>>130015491

Look you can either say that the "progress" we have made is a good thing or say that you can't find any of this "progress ideology" anywhere. You can't have it both ways.

You yourself are here telling us that women ahve been oppressed for centuries and have finally been liberated by the light of normie reason. The difference is that you think you're Good and True., while we're trying to show you the propaganda (which was your question).

Do you hate us more than you want to learn something in bad faith? Are you trying to convert?

>>130003778

Tell us those professors that are talking sense and taking heat from SJWs, face to face, and going on news panels to debate insane tranny professors?

>>130015405
One data point is not a trend.

>>130015491
I'm sure creating new life instead of flooding the market with cheap labor is just leeching NEEThood. Nevermind the fact that a good mother is infinitely more valuable and productive than an accountant.

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>>129979786

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>>129995343
>ignores his own image
DO WHAT YOU WANT CAUSE A PIRATE IS FREE

>>130015730
no, they just didn't have opportunities. I wouldn't say ''oppressed''. That's Muslims.

The way I see it, is that we now live in a world where we can live until 90, food is cheap and easily accessible, we have opportunities, and we aren't having countless of major wars (like europe/asia pre-1950s).

My sister is learning to become a lawyer. 60 years ago she wouldn't of had that opportunity

>>130015874

I move my bet up too $1000.- that anon is a college girl fascinated by the prospect of her career in an NGO/government, for which kids are a distant possibility when they are at least 32 and have a career ("cause good men are hard to find and i need time for me")

>>129987952
>victim
How can Christ be a victim when He chooses His fate voluntarily?

>>130015874
why?

why can't we have a society where men can be the ones feeding the baby, being househusbands as a norm? Meanwhile the wife is out leading the world.

I'm not saying ''get all men to be mothers'', but more, why is a househusband seen as something bad?

>>130016319
>feeding the baby
we dont have lactating tits retard.

>>129983635
Clean your fucking room

>>130016319
because "uhm" sweety "hmm" there is biology and shieet

>>130016436
but dicks

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>>130016319
Because it is an inefficient way to distribute labor. Men are not naturally equipped to provide for primary infant care, nor are most temperamentally adjusted to raising a young child (women undergo profound hormonal changes which render them capable of caring for the child). I have taken care of infants/toddlers, and it is exhausting. Moreover, children are more closely bonded with their mothers after birth, with dad lurking in the background as "mommy's hairy helper."

Fathers already have a traditional role in caring for children. They take over care of preteen males when they become too big for mom to handle. This is usually accompanied by the process of teaching the child skills and preparing the them for initiation into adulthood in traditional societies. It works beautifully, which is we human beings naturally prefer it. No one invented it. It evolved over the course of millions of years. This stuff isn't hard to wrap your head around.

>>130016436
>>130016481
literally hardly any women brestfeed, and most just buy milk?

In recent canada, men have been encouraged to be househusbands, and get free bags of milk delivered. same with the women

literally not a problem here

>>130016180

Very true! We have made marvelous advances, but your original questions were about propaganda and where this "horrible stuff" is happening. Those were the ones I and others were trying to answer. Instead, you have made the matter into "are women better off now?" and I would say that they are in terms of options and materialistic needs, but I'm not entirely sure about their well-being. Btw, the same goes for men x100, which is kind of the point people we're making here.

You should be very, very careful in attributing our relative peace and prosperity now to certain ideological things, especially government. How about thanking free market capitalism for freeing the women from the home by offering them jobs? Something tells me that perspective is a little less appealing to you than the Light of Democracy finally doing away with the strictures of the past.

You say that women did not have "opportunities" 60 years ago, but then isn't it also weird how by and large 60 years ago those women didn't want those opportunities? What changed? The light of reason? Removal of internalized patriarchy? Then how much have the muslim women internalized?

Anyway I'm still unclear on what you're trying to do here. You are happy with the way the world turned out and you are 100% a feminist focusing on men vs women.

> why can't we have a society where men can be the ones feeding the baby, being househusbands as a norm? Meanwhile the wife is out leading the world.

See, this is what's amazing. You CAN have a man feeding the baby and the woman leading the world, but how about not making that a SOCIETY? God you collectivist types are so religious in your preaching that someone's good idea immediately needs to be imposed on others (through education, of course!! as feminists we would NEVER oppress anyone) almost to prove that it's indeed good. Learn to fucking freedom.

>>130016918
>no problem there
yes there is. its degenerate.

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AND THAT'S THE BLOODY THING WITH IDEOLOGIES. YOU KNOW I ALWAYS SAY THAT PEOPLE DON'T HAVE IDEAS, IDEAS HAVE PEOPLE. AND THAT'S THE BLOODY IDEA THAT'S WRAPPED ITS HEAD AROUND AN UNDERWATER KOREAN BASKET WEAVING CARTOON MESSAGE BOARD.

IT'S LIKE.

IT'S LIKE YOU DECIDE OK, OK SO LETS SAY YOU TURN IN AN ESSAY OR A TEST AND YOU GET A PRETTY POOR GRADE YOU KNOW, ONE YOU DIDN'T THINK YOU WERE GOING TO GET. NOW YOU'VE ENCOUNTERED AN ANOMALY. YOU'VE LEFT THE TREES AND YOU'RE ON THE VELDT, AND THAT'S THE BLOODY THING. IT'S NOT ON YOUR OWN VOLITION OF COURSE. SO YOU'VE GOT A COUPLE OF OPTIONS YOU CAN BUCKLE DOWN AND TRY HARDER. OR LETS SAY THIS BAD GRADE THROWS YOU SO. FAR. OFF. THE. TRACK. THAT YOU SAY WELL I COULD JUST DROP THIS CLASS. I COULD JUST DROP OUT OF COLLEGE. I COULD DROP OUT OF THE NORMS OF SOCIETY. AND THEN YOU CAN DROP OUT OF LIFE.

AND BELIEVE ME. THAT IS NOT A ROUTE YOU WANT TO GO DOWN. YOU CAN EXTRAPOLATE THE CONSEQUENCES OF A BAD GRADE ALL THE WAY TO GENOCIDE. AND THAT'S NO JOKE

>>130014052
Why the hell is the book almost 60 bucks on amazon holy shit

>>130016918
>literally hardly any women brestfeed, and most just buy milk?
gonna need a source on that.
>free bags of milk delivered
literally what

>>130016918

Even if it's possible, how about you leave people the fuck alone? Does it have something to do with "right-wingers" not leaving you and "women" alone? Who told you that? Ah who am I kidding, it's a canadian college girl... You are not interested in learning our perspective you're here to dismantle it.

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>>130016918
WELL WHADDYA KNOW

A FUCKING LEAF

I should just start assuming everyone who hides their location is a leaf at this point.

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>>130016436
>>130016481
>>
>>130016319

>>130017020
Read that in his voice kek

>>130017020

SO HERE'S AN EXAMPLE THAT MIGHT BE GOOD TO CONSIDER. LET'S SAY YOU'RE AT THE BAKERY EH? AND YOU ARE CHOOSING WHAT BREAD TO BUY. THE BLOODY BAKER SAYS TO YOU "PICK THE RIGHT LOAF ANON, IT WILL BRING YOU GOODNESS." AND YOU THINK WAIT A MINUTE, WHOSE STRINGS ARE BEING PULLED HERE? AM I A PUPPET?

YOU LOOK AROUND YOU AND SUDENLY REALIZE EVERYONE IS FAT AND LAUGHING WHILE THEIR SOCIETY IS BEING EATEN BY A DRAGON SO YOU PICK UP A SHIELD AND BUCKLE UP TO FACE THE UNKNOWN AND RESCUE YOUR FATHER FROM GENOCIDE.

THEN YOU PICK YOUR LOAF, HEAD BACK HOME AND FUCK YOUR WIFE LIKE YOU'RE OSIRIS BEGETTING HIS SON SOCIETY.

>>130017231
Thats the spirit,mate.Noticed how swedish and canadian flags disappeared?

NEWS BREAKING https://youtu.be/69xB7t2QWBs

>>130017085

Well the book on amazon would be the literal, physical, book. It's quite difficult to publish esoteric academic material and get people to buy it outside of universities. Math and physics books have this problem even worse.

>>130017539
Poo flags too. An anon said earlier that 3rd world country flags that aren't in Europe just disappeared.

>>130017622
And im a good boy and dont tell him where to download for free.

>>130017231
>>130017539

Think she's a shill? The disappearance of flags sucks for this. Only responded selectively by saying

1) your source is bad
2) women are happier now
3) right-wingers are hateful bigots

But it's hard to tell these days. It still amazes me how little good faith progressives can muster to learn something of another's perspective. They are literally the most intolerant people on the planet but they consider themselves Good and True, simply rejecting "hate" out of hand. Like, can you imagine going into this place not to learn anything but simply to yell? It's so weird.

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>>130017705
I already posted with my geoflag up there if you want you can find it easy.

>>130017769

Actually I already linked anon Peterson's website, which has it for free =/ You're a good boy though, spread the love!

>>130017769
if you don't know libgen at this point its safe to say you arent even interested in reading stuff from phones/tablets/epub readers.

>>130017858
>that aren't in Europe
Still good lad and I didn't read the thread like a faggot. Sorry lad.

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>>130017854
100% he is just shitposting. Typical leaf. I merely responded to demonstrate that in general people are less happy, especially women, as the differences between men and women have been systematically eliminated.

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>>129979786
LOL haha im a phisosopher now i listened to a 2 min youtube clip from my favorite man jordan b peterson!!!

remember to clean your rooms and sort yourselves out fellow pedes!

MAGA

>>130018234

I actually thought it sounded a bit sincere, like it was a girl at uni or something. Also fuck you for posting that pic. I don't have my img folder on my phone but rest assured your burger ass getting insulted in pic related.

> 54%

>>130018136
I was amazed how many are actively fighting against reading stuff from phones/tablets/epub readers.I think its because you cant put it on a shelf and make selfies with the shelf.
I got myself a kindle 3 years ago because run out of space to store books.

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>>129979786
Don't forget to vote a full Democrat ticket you guys.
We're sacrificing nigger babies, and we got George "The Golden Gasser" Soros himself, funding BLM while blacks kill each other, and Hamas to kill Israelis....get in on this shit you guys!!

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>>130018655
but did you read any of those books?

and yes, even in /lit/ you can (sometimes serious, half-serious or trolls) find people who fight against e-redears.

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PETERSON IS A PLEB; IF YOU LIKE MEME TIER INTELLECTUALS AT LESAT GO WITH ZIZEK; he doesn't cry on camera because of muh suffering and has an actual sense of humor.

>>130018779
Its the family library of course i did read them.Its not a hardcore literature collection,but entertaining stuff like Rejtő and Hašek.

>>130018655

Kindles are complete shit and slow as fuck. I actually broke one and I am never buying one again considering that I can just read on my laptop.

Also, if you read so much that you are running out of space than you are doing it wrong.

>>130019796
I've got Kobo Aura One, it's good. I think it's retarded to brag with losing space when you're using .epubs. YOu can stuff like 400 books into 6 gigs but so what if you are not reading them. I usually have 5-6 books on my kindle and I read them when I'm not working or at PC. In PC I read 1 book at a time.

>>130019362
zizek's description of his perfect date is one of my favourite jokes of all time

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>>130018413
56% doesn't faze me. What is fucked up is it is 16% globally, whereas it was almost 50% in 1950, and headed towards 1% over time. Also I think Americans are just more well adapted to living next to other races, so while the demographics are bad, actual demographic displacement is largely concentrated in the southwest US, as the real Mexican border moves north. In addition, the white birthrate is not too bad, especially in religious groups. Mormons, Amish, and Evangelicals will inherit the Earth, while leftists will eventually go extinct.

>>130019362

Monkey see, monkey do,
Do you poo in the loo?

>>130017231
>>130017142
>>130017087
>>130017009
>>130016904
what you need to notice, is that women prefer to date DOWN

why do you think they love african immigrant men?

Women have been fighting for superiority among thermsevles here in the west, but haven't been able to compete with the local men. However, the women who date refugees at least get the satisfaction of feeling like the intellectual superior of the relationship.

>>130018655
>>130018779

I have moved to employing the argument that in the digital age, a stocked book case is actually a remnant fetish of being Learned (like leather chairs and fireplaces). Tangible books are nice and pretty and collecting "Knowledge" in a visible way is just another hipster way of externalizing identity into symbols. The price of books is extraordinarily high because of all the publishing infrastructure. So you can call a bookcase the most expensive piece of furniture they own, and it seems to be effective. Purists get so mad.

E-readers and the internet are the future

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>>130020069
You stole that line, fagget. Here, take this for easy transport.

>>130019796
Well,i would rather not read on a laptop on the lake with 2-4 hours of battery life and shit visibility in shunshine.I have 800+ books on it and switching books takes a bit thats true,but if you start reading its not slow at all.

>>130020150
Except for when you are truly someone who loves literature and you can't get your books in .epubs. My father owns an extensive, semi-rare library that isn't available digitally and thus has to buy 90% of his books since they're obscure even on our national level. Some of them cost over 1000 euros.

but yeah, sure you can call it a furniture and virtue signaliging.

>>129984152

I think he is overestimating girls, He says they are picking from the top of dominance hierarchy. But in real life even people with down syndrome gets children. and lots of the people getting children are rednecks and people doing it early.

I dont know if men with good careers really get that much children compared to others. Or that people with high IQ gets more children. He never gives any statistics on this, but big part of his theories is based on it.

>>130020161
That makes sense.

>>130020069

What YOU need to realize is that women date UP in status, which can come from anything and isn't restricted to intelligence like the one dimensional analysis you're proposing. Some women like refugee men specifically for their looks and dominant personality, aggression. That this has nothing to do with intelligence does not mean you know why they like their men, since not even they themselves do. Are you one of those people who has "thought out" what personality traits they prefer in a mate and convinced themselves of their own rationality? Cease your preaching leaf.

>>130020445
But its so much more easy to manipulate a 65IQ subsaharan black than a 100+IQ white higher status male.
Women thrive on manipulation,not status.But thats just my opinion.

>>130020320

That would be one of the few proper exceptions, and also the one I follow. Although I would suggest if he values the book enough to pay €1000 for it he can serve humanity by digitzing it, which nobody will do because they like collecting things. Note that there's no problem in paying for a bookcase, but there is a problem with preaching its superiority over digitized books like reading is some sort of mystical experience. That'sw just obnoxious.

>>130020680
Im the other way around.I have no money tree,so i pirate books.Also most books i have read in the past 15 years are still not available in Hungary in proper paperform.Silly me,reading trash literature.

>>130020670

This might be true to some extent, and certainly some women are very manipulative and possibly the whole of womenhood more manipulative than men, but it is not what's going through their head I think. You can also take peterson's perspective (relevant here) that women want a dangerous man that they can tame. Note that this does not involve manipulation because they actually want a man that does not put up with their crap. It's a strange dynamic, the redpillers will point to that "manipulation" you mention as shit-testing. However, they believe you pass the test when you don't put up with it.

Those sub-saharan men are not as easy to manipulate as you might think. They are only insofar as you appeal to their aggression and dominance impulses. Consider the existence of hordes of very intelligent beta males. What's happening there, more manipulation?

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>>130019991
>>130020163

>400 books
>800 books

Anything above 20-30 books makes me nauseous. I find much more value re-reading some of my favorites instead of looking for new authors and titles all the time.

I bet you don't even understand what you read but read to prove to yourself that you are a literally athletes or something.

A regular paperback book is still cheap as shit and easy to carry; no good reader needs mobile access to 800 books.

>>129995927
Thats ones good

>>130021029
i have a lot of epubs in my pc but i carry only few with me in my kobo.

i mostly read new stuff, sometimes i re-read.
>don't even understand what you read
stop projteckting

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>>129979786
Anti-porn redpill.

I agree with Jordan when it comes to free speech and a lot of stuff about the current social and political climate we live in. But he's extremely frustrating to listen to talk about science and truth. When he talked to Sam Harris on his podcast they tried to talk about truth but Jordan was arguing against mathematical facts and truths. I get that he isn't a reductionist and doesn't think that will always lead to Truth, historically he's wrong but that can change as we study more emergent behaviors. But when he argues against mathematical constants and facts due to some sort of future trajectory he's completely leaving the basis of science for some religious teleological bullshit. Basing fact on teleology is just wrong

>>130020839

I see your problem. I have the same with old-ish western literature, although google books has mysteriously made a lot of it available online. But anyway I was mostly interested in the phenomenon of bookcase-as-fashion for this discussion. It's a great thing you can still read your trash literature even though it doesn't physically exist in hungary, no?
I also love taking 10k books with me on holidays and having my entire collection to choose from. So many absurd advantages, not to speak of the ability to copy/paste from books, write blogposts about them, ....I think bookcase people are a bit like anti-CD people in favor of record players.

Anyway, have you downloaded Peterson's reading list yet anon?

>>130021029
Nah.I use books for entertaining.Security guy here,with lots of boring nightshifts without internet connection.The reader is still 1/4 empty at least.

>>130021029

This is utter twaddle, you fill up a bookcase with literature in a single university degree alone, let alone the multiples of that when you read fiction or study on your own time. It's very easy to read hundreds of books, even more so when it's mostly fiction. Some people read more than a book a week man.

>>130021448
I use books because I'm low IQ white trash and I need to be spoonfeed things instead of figuring them out on my own.

>>130021389
No,i have my own list and dont spend much attention to Peterson outside of the amazement that there are sane canadians.Im not much interested in psichology anyway.
To the bookcase fashion,my generation had 43 individuals,there were 3 of us who could read a singel A4 size paper properly.
This is the power of meme magic.Conveying information by pictures that would otherwise need many hours of reading A4 size papers to understand.

>>129982271
existentialism and authenticity is my favorite. I've watched it probably 5 or 6 times and showed it to my friends and they're hooked on him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_7hCPYgXEk

>>130021576
Thats the case anon,if you have a money tree to buy the books instead of renting them from the library.

>>130007645
>Peterson doesn't understand Nietzsche

Yes he does, he just doesn't buy everything he said.

>>129992901
Good post my man, spot on.

>>130021299

No he thinks Truth transcends the formal systems of science we use at any particular moment. Sam Harris is a typical formalist atheist that can not handle logic when it is not utterly formal. This makes him great at some things, especially great at finding contradictions and flaws, very limited in other things. For example, you can not study culture or art with science. Why? Because science would need to measure things objectively, i.e. from the outside, i.e. outside of the brain and experience of a person. If you want to say that there is some Truth in art, that truth is something we can not formalize and can not measure. Of course Sam would say that that's fine since that means it doesn't exist, as metaphysical notions are not useful etcetc. Except they are useful, and we have been creating art and religion since we drew our first breath. So what's up there, sam? That's quite a bit of irrationality non?

What you need to do is expand the scope of what you consider a theory and make sure it includes things that are no just of a formal nature. You have to do this anyway, since science and logic are not ready for things like morality and aesthetics, yet we think about them anyway. I give Sam credit for trying to make an evolutionary case for morality though, it's quite impressive to just bulldoze ahead with your logic in the face of the gigantic chasm between understanding genes/evolution and understanding personality and the brain.

Peterson says that what we think is True is something that is useful in the world. Science and its symbols and formalisms are tools in the same way, and most definitely they can be considered true in a certain sense. What they can not be is true in every sense, which is what Sam tries to accomplish when he keeps yammering on about a thought experiment in morality involving trolleys and cheating and nuclear war. He is trying to formalize morality in language and logic. Also Sam should like Jordan's ideas on competitive myths

>>130004019
>The Greeks did not permit women to leave their houses without male accompaniment, and had no conception of mercy towards enemies.

>liberalism is defined by how a society treats women

You seem to have a massive misunderstanding of what defines liberalism

>>130021862

Well yeah my whole point is that you need a money tree to fill a book case, and that that is a very bad idea. People do it for collector and stylistic reasons more than sense. I sold all my uni books to other students after I was done and kept the PDFs. You can't have every student borrow from a library

File: 58c91c_6253758.jpg (632KB, 1288x1732px) Image search: [Google]

632KB, 1288x1732px

>>130022026

>>129986031
Assuming this is real shit, thanks for this upload m8.

>>130022379
Liberalism is an ideology from the 18th century. We are looking backwards to see if these societies displayed pre-existing liberal tendencies, informally defined. The strict enforcement of female submission and barring them form the public venue is illiberal. Slaying all the adult males of a conquered city-state and putting the rest of the population into slavery is illiberal.

>He charged Acamas—Acamas could not stand the attack,
>he ran—and Peneleos stabbed at Ilioneus instead,
>a son of the herdsman Phorbas rich in flocks,
>Hermes’ favorite Trojan: Hermes gave him wealth
>but Ilioneus’ mother gave him just one son . . .
>the one Peneleos lanced beneath the brows,
>down to the eyes’ roots and scooped an eyeball out—
>the spear cut clean through the socket, out behind the nape
>and backward down he sat, both hands stretched wide
>as Peneleos, quickly drawing his whetted sword,
>hacked him square in the neck and lopped his head
>and down on the ground it tumbled, helmet and all.
>But the big spear’s point still stuck in the eye socket—
>hoisting the head high like a poppy-head on the shaft
>he flourished it in the eyes of all the Trojans now,
>yelling out his boast: “Go tell them from me,
>you Trojans, tell the loving father and mother
>of lofty Ilioneus to start the dirges in the halls!
>The wife of Promachus, Alegenor’s son, will never thrill
>to her dear husband striding home from the wars
>that day the sons of Achaea sail from Troy!”

Doesn't sound like something a classical liberal like Peterson would endorse glorifying in.

>>129983635
>1 post by this ID

Well if you look at the catholic church who for hundreds of years didn't even obey the basic "rules" so to speak of the new testament then you can easily of course see that indeed they stole money from the people in order to build huge cathedrals using the money people gave them for their supposed relatives being in purgatory. That is completely against what the new testament is.

>>130022680
Yeah this is one of my favorite things on the Internet.

>>129995192
You do realize once he changed his diet it helped his depression meaning it has a biological origin rather than he just being crazy?