Red pill me on Macedonia /pol/ Are they the heirs of Alexander

>>123174734
There are no countries or nations left after 50 years of cold WAR, 25 years of global WAR-ming and whatever WAR shit martini stirrers were waging before that by using weapons of mass destruction called nation building. Macedonia is just meaningless label of military deception.

They are a deluded nation.

>>123174734
basically Bulgarians in denial and Albanians

>>123174734
both

>>123174734
Macedonia is a product of Serbia and Bulgaria having sex.

>>123177138
shhh quiet, you'll make them butthurt or something

>>123174734
The Balkan is fucked up. Macedonians are as ancient Macedonian as Albanians are illyrians.

All Balkan countries have weird nationalism....Macedonians are like 50% Albanian and 50% greekified Bulgarians.

Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Albania, Greece, Romania and Bulgaria are the only countries that should exist in the Balkan and the other countries should be splitted amongst them.

Macedonians are slavs like the rest of the former yugoslavia countries. But their problem is that they have a lot of non slavs that want to split her: greeks, turks, bulgarians (some bulgarians don't consider themselves slavs) etc.

>>123177328
>50% greekified Bulgarians

Or wait. Macedonian is a Southern Slavic language aswell, isn't it?
They are probably Slavs in a identical crisis.

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>>123177208
No, no. It was never S*rb land. As our ally in both wars you get Macedonia back and bit more till Niš.

>>123174734
DEY. WUZ. ALEXANDERZ AND SHIET

>>123177518
>bulgarian's wet dream

go back to >>>/int/

>>123177328
>Albania
I assume you mean no genocide or displacement allowed and simply redrawing borders then yes there should be Albania because nobody wants them.
The problem with Albanians is they fuck up their own country so bad that they diaspora to their neighboring countries. The more clay you give them the more they disporia outward.
They don't want to live in Albania.

>>123177328
>croatia and serbia as separate nations
>literally the same people who speak the same exact language

>>123174734
Slav-Bulgarian mixed meat with a side dish of Albanian

>>123177910
That's the point. We are all slavs (except albos) but we created different nations who have different history.

>>123177910
They have different histories and formed separated states over centuries.

Somehow Germany, Austria, Luxemburg and German Switzerland are separated aswell and we speak the same exact language.

>>123177659
I meant that historically Albanians always organized themselves in a collective and didn't just come up as a nation after Yugoslavia broke apart.

>>123177659
>The problem with Albanians is they fuck up their own country so bad that they diaspora to their neighboring countries. The more clay you give them the more they disporia outward.
They don't want to live in Albania.

>I get my news from memes

>>123174734
....They're serbobulgarians and have 40% albanians lol

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a mix of serbs and bulgarians
a german map from before ww2

>>123174734
It's a cool place, just watch out for the town rapists

>>123178367
>Those albanian settlement in Athens and Peloponnes.

HNNNNNNG

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>>123178654
Take them back

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>>123178654
i wonder how the greek language even survived in greece, they were copletely populated by slavs and albanians multiple times

>>123178922
Shhhh, they B Greek nao.

>>123179269
I think they had a language reforme in the 19th, plus you had to be "Byzantine" to be Greek.

>>123178654

Thank God they're gone right?

Now we need to cleanse them from Macedonia and Serbia and finally from whole world

>>123179269
Τhe language survived because of the Church, since the Byzantine liturgy was in Greek.

>>123177027


dude
that makes no sense
really. not the argument. the way you put it.
are you using a chatbot or something?

>>123179269


>completely populated by slavs and albanians multiple times

kek so true, but that is only
in the last 1000 years or so
imagine before that

>>123180402
no. typing everything with my own fingers.

>>123179711
They're not gone, they're like the Albanian communities of Beligrad, almost 300.000 strong.

>>123180636
Don't delude yourself, no Arvanite feels Albanian today. We have the same fairytales about the "Greek Albanians" btw.

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>>123177027

>>123174734


well, handing over political power to ethnic albanians 15 years back has cost them their country - they just don't know it yet.

>>123180636

>300k
>In Belgrade
>Already

Jesus Christ why do Albanians breed like rats?

Is it Turkish genetics?

>>123180858
>source: his ass

>>123180858
they are retaking their ancient illyrian arian lands from the slavs. we'll have to go back to siberia or get assimilated

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>>123180858

two words

childmarriage
interbreeding

>>123180858
they all have like 5+ kids, its a known stereo type of theirs. Not a bad thing for them though desu, theyll still exist in 150 years. But i don't see them in belgrade or novi sad.

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>>123180858
Albozergs life to inflate their numbers. They boycott any poll to measure their true pop numbers.

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the fags around us except serbia r run by soros himself and his shills

>>123181674
>[citation needed]

>>123178465
>town rapists
kek'd
i guess i'm one of them

>>123179711
Second holocaust, just replace the jews with шиптapи (or just gas them both).

>>123180745
What is Greek opinion on assimilation and persecution of ethnic Greeks in Albania under Hoxha and Rama?

>>123181973
From Greece's point of view, we should support Macedonia and yet the Greek cucks on Reddit support Albania and call Macedonians "Russian agents".

>>123182140
That is because they think that all Macedonians hate the Greeks, but i can confirm that it isn't true.

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>>123181674

But didn't Vucic win?

My Serbian friend told me that he pays his rallies with sandwiches and lighters and sometimes on good days 20 euros

He also sent me this video about how this guy in the vid is buying votes or smth like that idk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSUxM4n5rkM

>>123182340
vucic is supported by merkel and brusells , his opposition is soros funded

>>123178137
Fuck off Milorade, Bosniaks are least slavs of all slavs. We are mostly Illirians

>>123182263
I know and objectively you are less dangerous than Albanians. Albanians have quite a big diaspora here and also get support from Turkey. The only problem with you is the name which is 50% our fault. A lot of Macedonians like Greece.

>>123182081

back in the day it was an issue, nowdays it's just dude weed lmao.

>>123180858
Funny thing is they don't even appear on the census because they declare themselves Serbian, had their names localized and are Orthodox. They've been there since the great migrations though.
>inb4 assimilated

That's what they want you to think, I've personally spoke to them last November.

>>123180745
Tbh i don't even care, the mere fact that you take pride in the absorption on non-Greeks in your ethnos is enough to make me happy.

>>123182471
that theory has been debunked, your haplogroup is slavic, not ilyrian.

>>123182571
I don't take pride in it. I'm just telling you not to have false hopes.

>>123182571
>Funny thing is they don't even appear on the census because they declare themselves Serbian, had their names localized and are Orthodox. They've been there since the great migrations though.
never heard of that story
i don't believe it's such high number
i heard for šokci though, who live in vojvodina and are assimilated catholic albos. they today declare themselves as croats

>>123182475
I never understood why would you give a fuck about the name that much. It's just a name ffs

Macedonians are honorary Aryans.
VMRO and Vlado Cernozemski fans spearheaded the action last night.
This puts us Croats in an uneasy spot. Ustashe allies and fellow anti-Serbs vs Albanian bros, that is the current struggle in Macedonia.

>>123183021
you are either trolling or retarded

>>123182981
Do you really think they'd leave a Albanian community in their capital otherwise? Also those in Croatia are called Arbanasi.

>>123183010
It's because if you call yourselves "Macedonians" then our Macedonians are left with nothing to call themselves. Basically we should have agreed to Northern Macedonia so that would be settled.

>>123183077
i just say that you are deluded if you think that there are 300k albos living in belgrade and pretending to be assimilated

>>123183021
Nah it's a corrupt President wanting to declare martial law and remain in power, don't make it "le ebin war of the century"

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>>123182571
This B movie plot. You should consider getting a job with Hollywood.

>>123183195
Tbh, i wouldn't care if the name gets changed.

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Pic related. Avoid war, bros

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>>123183222
Don't imply such a thing has never happened in the past.

>>123182981
sokci are catholics from bosnia

>>123183272
these monkeys in the pic related say otherwise

>>123183353
that would be bunjevci i think
although not all sokci are assimilated albos though

>>123183058
You are either a moronic ignorant fucktard or... Yeah, you are a Serb allright.
Let me guess, you think Macedonians are your brothers?
Like Montenegrins with their Ustashe national anthem and NATO ascension.

You Serbs truly are the most ignorant, easily fooled, and easily bought fucktards there are.

>>123183462
you're that anti-serb moron from the previous thread
yeah, we're inferior subhumans. happy?

>>123183420
bunjevci lived by the buna river in herzegovina, an then running away from the turks poulated dalmatia and lika. and sokci just crossed the sava river and went into slavonia and vojvodina. that's the theory i know.

>>123183195
Nobody here cares about a name change, at first opportunity we would gladly do so. We do like you though.
>>123183223
Both sides are equally corrupted, the platform wasn't know until lately, the whole thing was rigged. Everyone in the elections needs to answer for some kind of crime. You lot had refused to be counted here for a while reason why 2002 census still persists.
>>123183272
Seems hard, because a lot of shit happens here
is by sides funded by both EU/NATO and Russia. It's literally tug of war and if it succeeds it's another impasse. If all fails this country will be ablaze

>>123183655
alright, but there is also a theory that albos consist a part of šokci, i think the story is that some albos also were pushed by ottoman invasion and settled in vojvodina, at the same tame when šokci and bunjevci came from bosnia, so they being minority got assimilated there

>>123183600
>Skoplje a medieval Serb city founded by Serbs
>Old Serbia
>Serbs in Macedonia 1.78%
>SPC banned

Serbs in Bosnia and Herzegovina 1910: 50%, 2017: 30%
Croatia 1910 25%, 1990: 500 000, 2017: 170 000, 3.5%

Montenegro 1905: 98%, 2017: 35%

>you are the anti-Serb moron

It appears there are a lot of anti-serb morons around you

>>123183980
>It appears there are a lot of anti-serb morons around you
no, it's really just you

>>123183945
KEK.
Albanian is full of Slavic toponyms.
Northern Epirus and Durazzo were 0% Albanian.
Skadar was medieval Serb capital, centre of Zeta.
Skanderbeg was half Serb, his father is buried in Hilandar, his brother was a monk at Hilandar, his children married Serbs. Orthodox Albanians worship a medieval Serb ruler as a saint.

You people truly are pathetic.

>>123183600
Kek, ignore him bro he just wants Serbian-senpai to notice him. If you leave him alone he will commit suicide from the lack of attention by Serbs.

>>123184131
are you being ironic or?

>>123183945
shok means friend in albanian, you might be onto something

>>123182471
>Albanians and Bosniaks add both Illyrian
Wew lad Illyrians must have been total niggers.

>>123184152
i'm just here for shitposting anyways
he's a funny guy

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>>123183272
wtf i didnt know ustashe wuz chetniks and shiet

>>123184152
You are pathetic beyond belief.
A Serb neighbour can commit genocide of Serbs and destroy Serb heritage, and you can bet your house that the Serbs will continue singing and speaking about brothers and Yugoslavia.

Serbs literally fought for an officer from a previous war against Serbia, and died in hundreds of thousands to divide pre-war Serbia and spare their murderers.

Now they voted for people who call Serbs genocidal (Janković).

Keep up the good work

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>>123184367
Well don't let me stop you from having fun then.

>>123184340
don't believe the illyrian meme, south slavs and albanians have completely differrent genetics, and probably neither of us are illyrian

>>123178137
we are linguistically slavs not genetically, only slovenia and northern croatia is mostly slavic , the rest is l2a which is not slavic but native.

>>123184225
>are you being ironic

You are an imbecile. You had no idea of any of this yet I am an "anti-Serb moron" and you are "good Serbs" on /pol

Truly genocide-worthy

>>123174734
Mixture of Bulgarians and Serbs who think theyre related to the Ancients

>>123184670
it's the otherwise, we're not much different from albos and any other neighboring ethnic groups here in the balkans. we're a clusterfuck of genetics, i mean the most part of genetics we have is native/balkanic one

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>>123183272
>Croatian HOS t-shirt
>Bulgarian writing on the banner (in Macedonian it should be: CЛOБOДA ИЛИ CMPT under the skull)
>Those sub-human facial features all around


I'm seriously tired of the charades which are taking place here, /pol/. I don't even care anymore. I almost didn't react at all when I heard they stormed the parliament last night. It's just... I just want it to end. Don't even care about the outcome. I wanna feel normal and have normal worries.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml
look at these maps, slavs carry i2a and r1a ,and e1b1b and j2 are albanian, we are pretty different

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>>123184705
1/3 of serbs arent even european kek

>>123184571
we love you bros no matter what each others did in the past
to err is human to forgive divine

>>123185091
that's an old map, including kosovo albanians

>>123185085
l2a is just called south slavic, it doesent have any connections to slavs

>>123185153
E3b is also native balkan haplogroup anyways

>>123177518
>>shiptar diaspora
pls go away

>>123185224
but why do albos have such a small percentage of i2a

>>123183272
full circle of retardation achieved

>>123185538
because they're not dinarics, they're more mediterranean and thracian

>>123184521
They wuz quite friendly when it suited them actually

these threads are literally always 100% carbon copies of each other

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>>123182571
>implying arvanites are not Greek

katsaplia education

>>123185538
more than poland , czech rep. and slovakia and other slavic coutnries beside belarus idk, the R groups conquered the L groups when they arrived in europe or something like that.

>>123182471
You're mostly Turkish rape babies

>>123185764
'i' haplogroups are the last surviving cromagnon haplogroups, they survived in a small tribe in western europe, but we still don't know how and when it came to the balkans

>>123185693
No, they weren't you dipshit indoctrinated with Yugocommunist propaganda.
Writer of Montenegrin national anthem arranged for the remnant of Đurišić chetniks to be killed by Ustashe at Lijevča Polje.
Previously, Yugoslav Army disbanded Serbs and JVuO started rebellion against NDH.
Yugocommunists are a very late addition, there were less than 700 Croat Partisans in Croatia at the end of 1941.
In addition, they singled out Royalists and Serb nationalists as primary enemies, followed by Ustashed and only then Italians and Germans. Ironically, after war they eliminated the Italians and Germans completely, while those who were responsible for 80%+ deaths, "brotherly nations" were spared

>>123185986
L or i? you mean L probably.

Once upon a time the kikes realized slavs are their natural enemy so they can't just subvert them normally. But they also realized slavs love killing each other. So they set upon dividing us and making us into artificial countries/states and whatever which would want to kill each other.

Sometime after the ottomans got rekt, Bulgaria was threatening to establish itself as a big presence on the Balkans and we can't have any of that. So a region was torn away to keep Bulgaria smaller and more manageable. That region was given artificial history and put into direct conflict with Bulgaria, to this day, by appropriating history and other worthless lies, while their politicians are fed large amounts of money and freedom to exploit their people so long as they continue to shout about independence and made up history.

And there we have it.

The thing they never counted on, though, is that deep down inside we realize they're just Bulgarians and so do they, even though they'll deny it vehemently. Because, I mean, there's literally NOTHING more Bulgarian than demanding you're NOT bulgarian and pretending you're something else.

>>123186199
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml. this one, look how it drops in albanians

>>123186194
>Yugocommunists are a very late addition, there were less than 700 Croat Partisans in Croatia at the end of 1941.
elaborate this

Why did Albanians never join the Yugoslavia? We were all commies to an extent, only they viewed USSR as an ally when we had a temporary fallout with them.

>>123186522
It's I2a1.
Шиптapи don't have it.

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>>123186522

>>123186834
only southern albanians have it, but thats weird, they aren't similar to the slavs, they look like greeks, and have a greek folklore, wear those skirts n shiet

>>123187171
most of the vlachs in albania still live in south greece, so i guess some mixing occurred there
northern albanians are closer to us

>>123187404
*in southern parts

>>123186757
We had Enver Hoxha

>>123186633
There were 30 partisans in zagorje, 150 in Slavonia, less than 300 in Dalmatia in December 1941.
Their own notes and writings.
The start of "antifascist" uprising on 22nd June 1941 in Croatia is a meme. A group of Communist scum gathered up in woods and did nothings.
Meanwhile, Ustashe were killing Serbs en masse in Lika, Bosnia, Hercegovina, Kordun, Banija, Pokuplje and Slavonia already since May.
The uprising in Srb was nationalist, and due to massacres, not communist.
The communists later on hijacked it for propaganda reasons in historiography.
Until the fall of Italy, Serbs were a majority of partisans on territory of Croatia.
And Italins had banned Ustashed and armed Croats in their zone from September 1941. You do the math. Serbs had MVAC during that period.

>>123187490
I see, he was afraid yugo would prevent you from industrializing yourselves and becoming too dependent on yugoslav economy.

>>123188040
You stupid Yugoscum intruder in Slovenia, look up to Dravski ban Marko "Srbe na vrbe" Natlačen and Janez Janša.
Tito promised Kosovo to Albania, forbiding the persecution of Second Prizren League and Albanian murderers of Serbs during WW2.
Also, he banned return of Serb refugees from Kosovo, while he allowed Albanian muslim immigration.
Same to Montenegro and Macedonia republics.

>>123174734
They are definitely related to the Balkan natives. All modern Balkan countries are. The idea that the Slavic migrations replaced the local natives is ahistorical. Same goes for the idea that Turks mass raped everyone everywhere. The modern Macedonian nation is a result of the evolution of a loose regional Slavic Macedonian identity (geographically based) into a national one. You had similar attemps in the Balkans. In Croatia, for example, there were attempts of creating a Dalmatian nation.

>tfw you have a greek grandfather who married a french woman
Just move to america. You all will become one. You will join us. Eventually you will become.... ONE OF US.

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To any Alexanders in this thread, give us an update on your current instability. No news from your country has surfaced in our mainstream media since the Soros riots.

>>123189082
the albanian guy who they beat up in still in a hospital, and if he dies, the war begins

>>123188475
>The idea that the Slavic migrations
>Byzantine sources state that the Balkanite populations got killed in Serbia and replaced by Slavs

>All the these "Balkanite" people start speaking Slavic
>Yet there are Balkanite nations that retain their language meaning that Slavic culture was not dominant enough to replace Balkanic languages

I keep hearing these "We wuz Balkans and shiet" memes,but i have yet to see any proof,as compared to proof that we are Slavic,while shakey,at least it exists kek.

>>123188375
so it looks like there's long lost hope for us and our future

>>123189082
> The so-called EBR (Rapid Deployment Unit) was mysteriously disbanded on Wednesday and the leader of the nationalists left for a trip to Vienna
> The Macedonian opposition + Albanians elected an Albanian as the new president of parliament yesterday
> The crowd went berserk, stormed in and beat the shit out of the opposition
> The police barely reacts at all
> Today they come up with a number of 100+ people injured during the riot
> No one is arrested

>>123189082
A platform created in another country (Albania/Kosovo in this case) which aims to redefine the country from multinational to bi-national, which also goes against the constitution heavily breaks international law and as such it should be rejected solely on that basis alone. This platform was not presented during elections (11 December) so the electorate didnt know what they were voting for, but it was published on 7 January. Here's the Tirana Platform
http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/31585/1/
The first segment is unacceptable for multiple reasons. In 2001 after the war/conflict the Macedonians changed their constitution with the Ohrid Treaty to allow the use of minority's languages in municipalities which had 20% or more as an official language but only in those municipalities not on a state level. Since they didnt have a single municipality in the country with more than 20% the Macedonians allowed them to remodel the borders of the municipalities and now they have that percentage in some parts of western Macedonia.
The Albanians have boycotted all census attempts since 2002 because they want to use an old model for headcounting which isn't recognized anywhere in the world, they want to count people living in other countries (Albania, Kosovo and some EU countries as well as Switzerland) and present them as citizens of Macedonia even though they dont live there anymore, so basically they want 1 person to be counted in 5 countries at once. Internationally accepted census rules state that if a person lives outside of a country for more than 12 months he must not be counted towards the census. Despite this being ridiculous, and in good faith with the intention to ease the relations with the Albanians, the Macedonians allowed them to use this model in 2002 and it turned out that 25% of the population is Albanian.

>>123190017
The Macedonians themselves didn't count their diaspora like the Albanians did, because if they did they would constitute over 90% of the population since there are more than 6 million Macedonians living outside the country. In 2014 the Albanians boycotted another census attempt after a preliminary German study revealed that their number is no more than 17.8%. That's when the crisis started because with that number the Ohrid treaty simply falls flat on the ground.
Since the beginning the Macedonians have taken many steps to cater to the Albanian minority. They even let the rebels who fought in the 2001 war, the same rebels who openly to this day negate the country, the Macedonian people, its language and its culture, the same rebels (even the word rebels is sugarcoating it, normally these people are called terrorists everywhere in the world) who committed war crimes and atrocities over the population, the same rebels that the Macedonian Government pardoned them for war crimes and protected them from The International Criminal Court in The Hague, now those same rebels are sitting in the Parliament, openly discuss about federalization, openly negate Macedonians in the Parliament and paint themselves as victims. If this were to happen in any other nation, the people of that nation would not have peaceful protest like the Macedonians but they would be violent, perhaps even grow into an ethnic war. So despite being mocked and insulted on every level in their own country, the Macedonians still protest very peacefully on the streets and simply ask the Albanians to stop this nationalistic rhetoric and if they so wish to redefine the country, they can do that even with a document created in another country, which I will stress again: it breaks international laws, but only if they put this Tirana Platform in front of the electorate since it simply didn't exist before the elections and people were unaware of it and didn't vote for it.

>>123190047
Then there's the biggest issue: declaring genocide over Albanians from 1912-1956 but doesnt provide any facts nor it says who committed it. The census during this time clearly shows slight increase in Albanian population from 9% to 14% according to the Macedonian National Archive, numbers which correspond to other census data you will find in other archives in all other countries. The reason this stays in the platform is to paint themselves as a constitutional people on the same level as the Macedonians but because of this alleged genocide their numbers are so few now, on which basis they can ask for federalization. Lets not even go further than that, what a genocide means, what compensation they can ask for it and all the implications of a genocide.
Its a clever document to say the least, if it wasnt for the blatant lies and foul way of doing it. The other points in the platform which deal with economy etc are ok though, no one can complains about them.
The elections were won by VMRO (51 seats out of 120) and even though they could have formed a government, they refused it because the Tirana Platform was a deal breaker. Based on the 2001 Ohrid treaty, the winning party must form a coalition with at least 1 Albanian party and since all Albanian Parties refuse to form a coalition with anyone unless the Tirana Platform is accepted VMRO couldnt get 61 seats to form a Government. Basically this is blackmail and totally undemocratic, but as always Macedonians are willing to accommodate their Albanian minority. The second largest party, SDSM (49 seats) announced that they accept the platform and having formed a coalition of 67 seats together with the Albanian Parties they went to the President to get the Mandate to form a Government. However the President refused it on the basis that the Platform is illegal, it breaks international law and that its damaging to the sovereignty of the country, something he swore on inaugural day to protect.

>>123190200
So he advised for holding another elections to sort this whole thing out. SDSM has the option to take this to a Constitutional court to overrule the President's decision, however since they themselves know that it will not pass in the court because it simply goes against the constitution and the sovereignty of the country, they are refusing to have another election. So SDSM along with the Albanian parties are creating the crisis, they have a legal way of getting out of this situation by either holding another election cycle or simply taking the President to Constitutional court, but simply refuse to do it, claiming they have a majority for Government Mandate, refusing to acknowledge the fact that their voters didnt vote for Tirana platform.

>>123189348
desu, i wouldn't mind a war.

>>123190263
The reason why they dont want another election is simple, now that the people know at which lengths SDSM is willing to go to get the Mandate to form a Government and that they accept the Tirana Platform, their rating has plummeted from 30% down to 15% in just over a month. That is a clear signal that half their voters dont accept the Tirana platform.
Another problem is that in the last 2 years there were alot of financial scandals surrounding some high members of VMRO. Corruption is undeniably high in Macedonia, somewhat less so than in Bulgaria, Albania or Kosovo for instance, but still on a high level. When SDSM had the rule, they had equal if not higher number of scandals, so thats not something only VMRO is guilty of. I'd argue corruption is high even in developed democracies (just look at Germany prior to Merkel and now France, Italy, Spain etc), but that's besides the point.
SDSM's narrative now is that the President along with the 250k people protesting on the streets are protecting VMRO from going to court over these scandals and that VMRO is creating the crisis. Which couldn't be further from the truth, since the ex prime minister and leader of VMRO, accepted to let SDSM take the Government Mandate, that VMRO with its 51 seats will support SDSM for any legislation they want to pass in the Parliement in the next 4 years, he even agreed to be held responsible for all the scandals, that he will accept to be taken to court and prosecuted as long as SDSM rejects the Tirana Platform.
The crisis can be resolved in 3 ways:
-taking the President to court for his decision not not give the Mandate, which SDSM doesnt do.

>>123190413
-SDSM to reject the Tirana Platform
-SDSM to vote in Parliement for new elections
Clearly SDSM blocks the democratic process since they hold all the cards for a legal way of resolving the crisis, however knowing that they cant repeat the election fraud with the Tirana platform they refuse to do it legally and demand to form a Government calling the 250k people on the streets who are protesting 40 days in a row nazis for protecting criminals. Nothing stops them from taking those few VMRO members to court if they accept to solve the crisis legally, those 250k people protesting don't care about protecting few criminals, they simply want new elections to put the Tirana Platform before the electorate. As for the criminals, they will go to jail and I think they should keep protesting until those are behind bars, but first they need to deal with a bigger form of criminal: election fraud that aims to redefine the country without the will of the people.
The protesters ain't stupid, they know that if they are declared genocidal (along with the Serbs who openly stated they wil lgo to war with us if that were to happen, rightfully so I would say) and the country is redefined there's no going back after that point. The poor attempt by SDSM to blind them by promising justice for a few criminals is pathetic, they are basically saying: we will put the few VMRO criminals to jail and the price you are going to pay for it is you're going to be declared genocidal people, your country will cease to exist as you know it and yeah Serbia will declare war. What a choice lol.

>>123190508
This is all about what happened in our country.

>>123190047
this turned me from a neutral into a VMRO supporter.

>>123190716
VMRO is bad and corrupted aswell. They want us in NATO and siphon money as fuck but they also want us their as Macedonia not bi-national diaspora. But what they did is unjust and criminalistic so they also have to pay for their crimes for our country.

>>123174734
>macedonia
>not fyrom
>fuck you
FYROM is just a yugoslavian remnant that shouldnt exist. Much like the turk roaches.


ps im greek, feel free to joke about my economy and whatnot

>>123190017
>>123189741
>>123189348
>>123190047
>>123190508
These are legit scary and most /pol/acks would want to know about this. Make some well-written threads. I'll bump anything I see.

There was a theory that the real (((reason))) for all this is that the old Macedonian government was willing to let Russia build a pipeline. In order to hurt Russia, US/Israel/Soros has secretly engineered this instability and they want to put in a government that will follow US orders and block the Russian pipeline. Is there any truth to this?

>>123190913
I know that VMRO is corrupted.
A lot of salaries weren't paid or they were delayed, the economy has gone to shit, but at least they don't support the Tirana Platform.

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>>123190508
>along with the Serbs who openly stated they wil lgo to war with us if that were to happen
nobody ever said this, vucic is such a cuck and eu slave that even if albos decide to declare a caliphate in the middle of belgrade he would just apologize and cry in front of cameras

>>123191491
kek'd

There's a Macedonian dude where I work. He does absolutely nothing all day. Everyone makes fun of him.

There's also this Greek guy who pretty much does most of the work of the whole team.

You lied to me /pol/. Greeks aren't lazy.

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>>123174734
go figure

allowing the diaspora to vote makes no sense. they don't feel the consequences of their votes

>>123191708
>He does absolutely nothing all day.
why did you employ my brother?

>>123192184
I donno, he was there before I got there

Corruption means nothing, everyone is corrupted.

You can only afford to fight corruption if you are in an otherwise stable situation.

Giving power to a literal and open traitor is absolutely not the way to fight corruption. And I bet Zaev is no less corrupted than Gruyo anyway.

Even if VMRO are only using the patriotic feelings of Macedonians to cling to power, at least in rethoric they are nationalists, and rhetoric matters.

You can deal with Gruyo once the shipter-sorosoid threat is taken care of.

>>123192010
by "turkish" we mean anatolian?

>>123192491
Who's riding this mad horse in the meantime?

>>123174734
First they were Ancient Macedonians, then byzantine, then Slavic, with a touch of Ottoman. If you ask me, their genes are one weird cocktail.

>>123192491
thats probably how half of vmro voters think

>>123193568
Hardly, we can't make them pay simply because there is no one else available. If we had someone better, they would already have been in jail and we certainly don't want anything like the Tirana platform. The easiest solution is to purge every member from Top to Bottom.

Balkans were made slavic speaking through church language. France and Spain f.e. speak romance languages even though they are not latin at all. But they remained roman catholic and all newcomers were eventually baptized as such and language and culture were imposed upon them. This may seem weird to us but religion determined people's lives far more then it does today. On the other hand the Balkans very early got their own version of Christianity in slavic languages but this was not something authentic that came from le plebs. Instead this was actively pushed by ruling slavic military aristocracy and this was a serious political issue of the day. 19th century history presented this as "people just wanted mass in their own language" but it was a plan of cultural assimilation and it worked. With time aristocracy increased their base of subjects.

>>123195364
>purge every member from Top to Bottom.
that is what i want to happen

>>123195364
>>123195672
Yeah, but how is that easy? I mean, who's gonna do it?

>>123195483
Yet,the Church Slavonic was made to translate liturgies to the the people inhabiting Bulgaria and Serbia.

So if they where mostly "Balkanite" why would they translate it to Slavic?

Keep in mind that Church Slavonic was made for Plebs and not just nobility.


Where the people of the time just retarded?

>>123196090
So it's gonna be like this
>we find a poor person
>we feed the poor person
>we give the poor person a bomb
>we make the poor person a muslim (idk how is that going to work?)
>we make the poor person "Allahu Akbar" at them
or
>we buy a nigger
>we force nigger to kill them

>>123184131
What the fuck is this nonsense? White is Black. Black is Chinese. Bananas.

You're living in Bizarro World.

>>123196140
Do you really think that wishes of the plebs were catered for? Language is tool that is used for political purposes. We see that throughout history, in recent times it was done through school system, for example in south France to exterminate occitan, in modern times it's done through entertainment and now we are culturally semi-anglos. In medieval times the strongest cultural institution was church. Want to influence people? Take control of the church.

>>123197969
Um hello?You do realize that Church Slavonic was ordered to be created by Byzantine??????Right???

So if Byzantine wanted to influence the "Balkanite" people by changing the language of the church it would have changed it to Greek?

Are you mentally ill?

Do you have any other "proofs" because this is getting funny.I want to hear more of this lunacy.


Just to get 2 and 2 together,your theory is that plebs don't matter and the higher power get the language they want to input.

So if it was up to the higher power it would have been Greek.If it was up to the inhabitants,it would have been by your theory "Balkanic" .Yet it is neither,and Slavic.

>>123198763
and that's how the byzantines destroyed themselves. took evangelical role too seriously. bad move.

>>123199431
This is related how?
If they where too "evangelical" they would,by your theory,they would have translated it Balkanic,rather then Slavic.

Seriously any other proofs kek?

>>123199785
I'm not saying that no slavs came. I'm saying that the majority was not slavic and the ruling slavic minority used the opportunity to extend their influence. It would indeed be more reasonable for the Byzantines to have converted ruling slavs into greek christianity. Instead they did what they did, created utter mess and lost a lot of territory

>>123177081
Rare

>>123174734
neither...they are not a thing....noone thinks about them....they are like bathtubs

>>123200333
And how did the less numerous Slavic "nobility" enslave all of the numerous Balkanic people?Where they super human?????????

And yet,again if they where more evangelical,they woudl have catered to the plebs rather then the nobility,as evengalical means taking the Bible literally and therefore good doing.
And why does the same Byzantien write that all of those "Balkanic" lands left desolate after the Avars?


Seriously any more """"""profs"""""" then this?
I want to laugh at you more kek.

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>>123174734
All these motherfuckers are retarded. Everybody here thinks they're fucking historians or some shit.

First of all, lets talk about the Macedonians between 800BC and 570AD. For starters, nobody is sure which peoples made up the Macedonians. It could be Dacians, Celts, Epirots, or whoever the fuck else. It could be a mix of all of them. This shit happened 2500 years ago who the hell knows for sure? What is known, however, is that Athenians, Spartans, and Achaeans refereed to Macedonians as 'barbarians' because they did move south from the mountains on the modern greek-macedonian border into their territory.

But since 570AD, the original population of the entire balkans, not just present-day Macedonia, has been largley replaced by slavs and other migrants during the middle ages. Yes this includes greeks too. Dont give me the '100% pure greek blood' bullshit. Ive seen greeks that look more turk than greek.

All the modern Macedonians that claim to be direct descendent from Alexander are so cringe-worthy it physically pains me. If you go to Macedonia and look at the people, some are obviously slav, some are probably albanian (in skopje 50% chance), some look like roaches, while some look like you would expect ancient greeks and macedonians to look like. And its the same everywhere in the balkans.

The whole 'Macedonia is a meme country' stems from all the surrounding countries claiming ownership of part or all of FYROM because at one point in history, it was part of their empires. Greece is salty because of the name, which part of me understands. Bulgaria thinks its their rightful clay because Tsar Samuil incorporated Macedonia into the Bulgarian Empire during the 10th century. Albania thinks it belongs to them because WE WUZ ILLYRIANS and the entire balkans are rightfully theirs. And the Serbs, they think its theirs because it was part of the Serbian empire between 1346 and 1371. Wow Serbia, what an empire.

>>123190508
>>123190413
>>123190200
>>123190047
>>123190017

Looks like we're gonna get a new Kosovo!

>>123201133
did I say enslave? that's your serb mentality speaking. How did Romans conquer Gaul? By immigration and superior numbers? How did Islam expand? By pouring millions from Arabia all over Middle East, North Africa and Spain in less than a hundred years? They defeated them militarily and put their own institutions in operation. That's how it goes. You see conquest as someone being overrun and exterminated. Why?

>>123201936
When did i say the got exterminated??We are talking about Medieval combat here.How would a less numerous side win?

Especially a migrant one who does not know shit about the terrain,while the Balkans where the terrain are mountains?

Not to mention that the Slavs would have been on the offensive,so they would need even greater numbers.

Not to mention that all of those where under the administration of Byzantine,meaning the Balkanic people would have been supported by one of the most military dominant forces at the time.

Which is the EXACT reasons why the Slavs would only RAID Byzantine across Danube,as the Slavs where the nobility you would like to imagine them kek.

And if they only raided Balkanic people they would have not been able to their institutions.

You also FAILED to explain if Byzantine was "evangelical" why they did not translate liturgies to Balkanic.


Also i have been asking you for further evidence,like historical ones or genetic ones but you have a big 0,since you are dodging posting it like crazy.

And my "Serb mentality"?What kind of pansy ad hominem is that?At least try to hit me with something harder kek.

>>123201391
>some are probably albanian (in skopje 50% chance)

i liked everything you said except this family

>>123202982
Not 50% but it sure feels that way in Skopje, especially in the north districts.

>>123203480
That's because there are a lot of k*sovars roaming around. We have a joke here that goes like "what's the capital of kosovo? ramstore mall".

>>123202957
Islam:
contemporary with arrival of slavs in the balkans, ie medieval warfare
on the offensive, less numerous
conquers mountainous Spain in several years
easy peasy
balkanites were already christianized, so there was no need for evangelism

as for your serb mentality - it's a belief that less numerous side cannot win, and that losing side is automatically turned into slaves.

They're descendants from Slavic invaders who overran scupi from Greco-Roman control. They're not "Macedonian" anymore than by nomenclature.

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>>123178367
Wrong

Illyrians..

>>123178367
I can show you a lot of other maps as well. You can start here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Macedonia#Ottoman_rule

>>123203760
kek
I went to ramstore about 4 years ago. I hardly heard any Macedonian being spoken.

>>123203835
Spainards in where not more numerical top kek,not to mention they where divided into several countries,hence recounqista happened when they got united kek.

The claim that Byzantine was evangelical was your own in >>123199431

If you retract that statement then you still have to answer why did Byzantine not just translate it into Greek if they wanted to influence the people,as giving the Slavic "nobility" more power?

Your logic is that they where evangilical,good doing,but now you seem to deny that and run around in circles?Mental illness spiking up again?

You have also completely glossed over the fact that Byzantine claimed that the land was desolate because of the Avars.

While doing so still not providing any historical or gentic proofs.

Also Serb mentality is quite the opposite of that,and it has led to many disasters.
But it also gave the first uprising where the Serbs where a lot less numerous.

But by all means please do keep running in circles.

>>123196140
>the Church Slavonic was made to translate liturgies to the the people inhabiting Bulgaria and Serbia
>inhabiting Bulgaria and Serbia

That's a nice way to say bulgarians. It was made mainly for us, but we handed it over to you, so you can leave your mudhuts and learn something.

>>123174734
FYROM IS STEALING GREEK HISTORY
MAKEDONIKI IS TURKISH RAPE STEW
1993 WORST YEAR OF MY LIFE

>>123205701
you do realize bulgarian identity of slavs didn't exist back then? they were yet to be assimilated that's why byzantines tried to help with baptizing them

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>>123205701
Nah,after attempts to subjugate us,you tried to assimilate us to become Bulgarians.Alas it failed but we kept Church Slavonic.

>>123204801
Byzantines were evangelical to the coming slavs in the sense they gave them christianity in their own language which was a bad move for the Byzantines. That's exactly what I said from the beginning. What is wrong with you? I may be mentally ill but you are mentally handicapped.
Islam overrun more numerous opponents. Deal with it.
You equate desolate with extermination of local population. Nož žica I guess. Even general Ratko killed only males.

Serbian mentality led to many disasters, I agree. You know what, I might say you are right. Serbs would never have reached present day Serbia if any resistance was offered back then.

>>123204610
a lot of people from serbia come as well, since its the closest big city with malls and shit to them

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>>123206126
>when rape you balkanites and next generation declares himself as turkish

>>123206287
Was that written George R. R. Martin? Half of those people never existed.

>>123192010
By that logic you are a dane rape baby.

>>123204214
what is wrong with >>123178367 map???
The Map you are indicating is from May / 1876
The Map of >>123178367 is from March / 1940
Both maps are correct.
what is your point?!?!?!?!

>>123201391
>Tsar Samuil incorporated Macedonia into the Bulgarian Empire during the 10th century
And until 20th century the people there identified as Bulgarians. You can look in ottoman sources too.

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>>123206490
>When the best soldiers in the ottoman army are from the Balkans

>>123206411
they gave them christianity in their own language which was a bad move for the Byzantines

Byzantines didn't give us anything. We were ready to accept christianity from the catholic church at one point. The pope and the byzantine patriarch literally anathematized each other cause of that.

>>123174734
Multicultural mess sitting on rightful thracian/getae land

>>123174734
Werent they greek once upon a time?

>>123207096
I am Macedonian but in the census I have to identify as Australian.
Does this make me an Anglo?

>>123207816
Spoke greek more than 2 thousand years ago.

>>123207880
It makes you a Bulgarian in denial.

>>123207023
After the Balkan wars our present territory was incorporated in the Kingdom of Serbia and later Yugoslavia. This means that the state would have a free reign for assimilation of the population here. This would obviously blur the results.
It's enough there was total propaganda from every side to convert as much as possible of the existing population to their own cause.
Maps made before the Balkan wars at least remove the state control aspects of the region, and leaves only propaganda and diplomacy efforts at presenting the situation to how each state wanted the situation to be for itself.

>>123184131

>Skanderbeg was half Serb

Marrying Serb women was the go to thing to do, popularized by Turks.

>>123206411
Nope,you said that the Church Slavonic was not Balkanic because it was used as a political tool in >>123197969

When i noted that the highest power was Byzantine and that they have no reason to translate it to Slavic you said they where evangelical.

First of all purposefully translating it to Slavic,and abusing the more numerous Balkanic people is not Evangelical.

Second you are calling the Byzantines retarded now?

While saying that the fact that the South Slavs are not Slavs at all,but rather Slavonized Balkan people.

Last but not least,if the lands where desolate it would have been desolate it would mean it would have been very hard for them to be a majority in lands.Maybe a minority,you know like some people called the "Vlachs".


So who am i going to trust some?

Some random Croat who is claiming that the Byzantines where retarded,ratherthen the majority population was just Slavic with ZERO profs for this OR actual historians,actual sources from the time?

Oh you really made me think now.

>>123207905
RIGHTFULL GREEK LAND REEEEEE

>>123207977
One of the maps was made before the first balkan war. You were still under the t*rks so no propaganda.

>>123185085

Y-DNA means nothing otherwise Central African niggers are german you retard.

>>123208092
Solun and Kavala - Slavic.

>>123206622
What people existed is not really important as this was the only time period Serbia and Bulgaria where "allied". And it exactly the period where the Bulgarians themselves claim to have "given" Serbs culture.

>>123208200
>so no propaganda.
Yes there was. Churches, schools, associations offering various scholarships etc everything to "convert" at least one more to the ___insert country name here___ cause.

>>123185601

I2 is dinaric and Albanians are quintessentially dinaric according to coon hahahahaha

>>123181617

>Albanians breed like rabbits
>Albanians inflate their numbers

Why aren't you niggers ever consistent?

>>123208415
according to whom?

>>123208058
Please, think.

>>123187404

Southern Serbs are closer to Albanians, montenegrins are Albanians brainwashed by Serbs.

>>123208405
Yes there was large propaganda campaign by Greeks but Bulgarian schools and church opposed it.

>>123208709
So you still have 0 proofs?

>>123208778
>montenegrins are Albanians brainwashed by Serbs
good meme

>>123174734
2 million versus 16k, he won. Turks have done nothing to us, not back then, not now, they know not coordination nor cooperation.

>>123208278
No, they weren't. Bulgaria was an actual functional, well structured country, while the serbs were just a bunch of tribesmen. Constantine VII has a nice quote about you and your only purpose at the time. There was never and alliance or rivalry between Bulgaria and Serbia until 1885, because there were basically no country Serbia before that.

>>123208656
Carlton Coon

>>123209102
This. The serbs were paid to backstab us.

>>123208907

Ever wonder why there are less and less Serbs in Montenegro? It's because they're not believing your bullshit anymore.

>>123208817
I believe you. Serbs follow other peoples conquests. Avars, Turks, whoever

>>123209385
>It's because they're not believing your bullshit anymore.
you don't have idea what you're talking about

they're brainwashed and keep distancing from us slowly but at constant rate, although they deep down know their roots
no one ever claimed montenegrins are albanians in their propaganda

>>123209102
They where divided into states yes,but tribesmen.

The thing i posted was literally written by Constantine VII LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.

Serbia only exists since 1878.

The original country was the state of Ras.Now you are trying to say Ras was unstable or not a country after it absorbed Pagania,Zahumlje and Duclea then i can do nothing but laugh at you kek.

Still the point is ,even if they where tribesmen,that at the that point of time both the Greeks and Bulgarians claim that in that time period the Bulgars gave the Serbs culture.Hence they tried to assimilate them rather then just gib them as you said.Which we see later when Simeon destroyed the Serbian state.

>>123207952
Impressive comeback

Are you a Bulgar, Tatar, Thracian, Macedonian, Greek, or Turk? Who the fuck knows, right? All our countries are mixed. We can be retards and throw shit at each other over something that happened a thousand years ago or we can get over it and save our countries from soros.

>>123210035
I won't reply anymore because I know I can't convince you but if you really start researching stuff about Macedonia in 19th-20th century you will see.

As someone who stormed in yesterday, we did it because we don't fucking want the Tirana Platform. The whole thing about Albanians being majority is false as the moon being made out of cheese. If they were majority why weren't they counted but went with some theory from 2002 to now? They are funded by the EU cucks. We will not give our country to them, those that came with busses came from different parts of our country with us. IF we can't have our own country(where we live) then we will raze it to the ground.

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>>123210210
Look. I don't have anything against Bulgarians. I know that Bulgaria has occupied that region of the Balkans a few times for quite a while and that some Macedonians are Bulgarians, but that works both ways. I have relatives who are part Bulgarian, but all of my relatives going back +120 years have been Macedonian and identify as Macedonian. A lot of them lived in present-day Greece but they were displaced, so you can't convince me 'I' am Bulgarian.

Here is some OC so you didn't waste your time on this thread.

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>>123209633

>they are Serbs deep down

>>123212851
>haplomeme
sure, you convinced me

>>123212986
>Science is a meme

Kek.

>>123213064
>implying that haplogroups determine ethnicity

>>123182471
the bosnians are actually serbians
Under the ottoman rule, they were pussies and said we will convert to Islam, just don't kill us

>>123213278
>Implying that Haplogroup still don't provide what ethnicity are in countries as they are used to determine migrations

kek.

>>123213763
dude, montenegrins can trace their roots CENTURIES back because of their tribal mentality, and they're either purebred serbs or have mixed with albanians which is also the case, but no montenegrin is purebred albanian if his family has serb customs and speak serbian, so spare me bullshit please

>>123213353
Bosnian are Medieval "Bosnians" who where banovina(Croatian term) had their seperate heretic church and a Catholic king.Thefore they are jsut LARPING Croats.

If Bosnians where just converted Serbs then the Muslim part of todays Bosnia would have been in Medieval Serbian parts and Rs would have been a lot smaller.

Instead the Muslim part in today's Bosnia is in Banovina Bosna/Medieval Croatia at it's larger extent.

Don't make a mistake it was not the Catholic Croats who have converted it was the Bogomil "Bosnians",which is why they don't exist anymore while Catholic Croats and Orthodox Serbs still do.

Bosnians are also genetically closer to Croats then to Serbs.

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>>123182471
>Bosniaks are least slavs of all slavs. We are mostly Illirians
We're also not very slav. I think the serbs are the only ones who consider themselves slavs on the balkans. I have the impression they're doing it to suck up to russia, but thats moronic cause russia is chechen/mong.

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>>123183744
>>123183195
but then what about our macedonians?

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>>123174734

I work on building sites in the UK, im a sparky, but the Albanian laborer told me Macedonia is mainly Albanian and most of Albania was given away after WW2.

Seems the allies fucked the Balkans almost as much as they fucked the middle east by drawing borders all over the place while pissed on whiskey/snorting pure columbian cocain in a Parisian gentlemen's club , must of been a quality session all those rich old white dudes had that day.

>>123214034
Dude,I don't give a fuck,as they are either "Serbs" who have some hard on for their more sucesfull combat against the Ottomans and call themselves Sparta and shiiiet.In reality their state lost all civil wars against Ras and got lorded over by them.

The other real Montenegrin have a hard on because the Ottoman empire was less administrative so they are liek we wuz not slaves liek Serbs.

The only problem being that if they are seperate then Serbs,then that means they got enslaved by Serbs for more then 800 years kek.

Even on their national restoration it was still lorded over by a Serbian king top kek.

So they can kiss theri "Nikada ropstva nije znala" goodbye.

Either way Monte negrins are the lowest life form on Balkans,lover the Shiptars who can at least govern themselves.

>>123214839
>they are seperate then Serbs
they were never separate than us mentality and ethnicity wise, they were through all their history identified themselves as Serbs. it's just recent phenomena that they started calling themselves like they're different ethnicity

>>123215441
I did not say they are separate then Serbs.

I said the ones who think they are separate.

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Can somebody gas the whole balkan already. Where's Hitler when you need him.

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>>123174734

>tfw you are older than your country

File: This triggers the serbs.jpg (146KB, 1300x1122px) Image search: [Google]

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>>123177518
/thread

>>123217280
EBIG

>>123214366
Serbs and Croats consider themselves Slavs

>>123217280
This please.

File: Митьо-Очите2.jpg (74KB, 250x375px) Image search: [Google]

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>>123217280
>Can somebody gas the whole balkan already. Where's Hitler when you need him.
The fucking kraut lost! He dind't even thake care of our local problem with (((them))).

>>123184705
this is a load of bullshit and you know it

>>123184571
how could you be this retarded?

Im croatian but I think serbs are based, I hangout with them

>>123177138
Yes, the entire Balkans are either rightful Bulgarian or Hungarian clay too.

>>123188852
I'd rather have 1999 again