How did America lose the Vietnam war? Serous question.

>>115824864
america did not lose. you did.

>>115824864
We did not "lose" the war we just decided to end it before we finished winning.

We didn't. Liberals just have literally no idea what the Vietnam war actually was but they keep talking about it.

>>115824864
Fuck - feminism has even penetrated the rice patties of Vietnam. Need to call in an Arc Light strike.

>>115825042
>>115825066
>>115825067
>>115825219
Surely, at the very least, America capitulated.

>>115825042
you lost
>>115825066
being this demented

We had the same shit yesterday, fuck off or at least pick a different picture if you aren't too busy sucking nork cock.

>>115824864
The South Vietnamese people couldn't be bothered to support their awful government

The outbred jungle chinks made sure american troops had lots of weed so they were less inclined to killing.

American weapons were not as effective in the jungle, and couldn't even rip through trees used for cover.

American men did not even want to fight in the first place, and the occult had been busy brainwashing americans since 1946.

>>115824864

How did imperial Britain lose against a bunch of revolting farmers in 1776?

Serious question.

also, I'd only want to love her a short time. Cute girl, but clearly a feminist.

>>115825066
these mental gymnastics are hilarious. running away means you technically didnt lose because your still alive? come on.

>>115824864
unlike your dad we pulled out.

((Hippies)) made the war effort impossible. You literally defeated yourselves.

>>115824864
The "Vietnam War" was urban-warfare training. (See Kissinger, he explains all of this). It was not a "war" we were trying to win. We were fighting an ideological battle and testing our modern combat techniques in primarily urban and jungle environments, very different from the majority of wars America has fought.

This is not a "w-we won u guys" post, it's a "they're fucking psychopaths, the entire thing was just a ruse and a training exercise to practice for the New World Order."

>>115824864
South Vietnamese didn't give a shit

>>115824864
US lost 10 000 aircrafts in Vietnam. Guess who helped Vietnamese to shot them down.

>>115824864
It wasn't worth it to us.

The North Vietnamese were willing to give up far more than we were, and the South Vietnamese were too incompetent to defend themselves.


We killed the Vietnamese by the truckload, and suffered very light casualties relative to what we dished out. But the Vietnamese were willing to take whatever casualties necessary and we eventually said "ah fuck it, let's get out" after a big anti-war media campaign back home.

>>115824864
50% of Americans were hippiy pot head losers and demanded we stop fighting. Just like Iraq the people caused us to lose a war we had already won. Shit we kill our enemy on average 100 to 1 in any war.

>>115824864
America did not finish the job in Vietnam and this is why we can't consider that we won.

The Vietnamese dragged it out long enough that the US realized they couldn't win.

The goal of the war for the US was to stop the spread of communism, and the goal of the Vietnamese was to,self govern. The US did not stop the spread of communism, and the Vietnamese now self govern.

That is a war victory for the Vietnamese and a loss for the US.

>>115824864

america was winning.

then the democrats decided to make us just leave, and create a power vacuum.

just like in iraq.

>>115824864
>us forces inflict 90% casualty rate on Vietcong after tet offensive. Vietcong utterly btfo
>(((media))) there's NO WAYAmerican's can win, time to pack it up
>42 years later pakis in britbongistan are still stitposting on the internet about it

>>115824864
Furthermore Ho Che Minh was a hero for Vietnamese people, who kicked out frogs previously and would win in any open free election both in the North and South. So it's same like fighting against Asad who have overwhelming support. Vietnamese fought anti-colonial patriotic war against americans.

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>>115826317

>>115826452

Glad to see someone in America is a sane person.

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>>115825801
You had support from other powers whilst the UK was maintaining a huge empire. Try reading a book you illiterate yank scum.

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>>115824864
By not just stealing the recipe for pho and then nuking the place to a sheet of glass.

mom....i posted it again

Here's what Bui Tin had to say about it. If you don't know who he is, he had an interesting little part in it.

I think it's a great summary:

"The roots of the Vietnam War — its all-encompassing and underlying nature — lie in a confrontation between two ideological worlds: socialism versus capitalism for some, totalitarianism versus democracy for others. It was a conflict born of the Cold War…"

"[The American anti-war movement] was essential to our strategy. Support for the war from our rear was completely secure while the American rear was vulnerable. Every day our leadership would listen to world news over the radio at 9 a.m. to follow the growth of the American antiwar movement. Visits to Hanoi by people like Jane Fonda and former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and ministers gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses. We were elated when Jane Fonda, wearing a red Vietnamese dress, said at a press conference that she was ashamed of American actions in the war and that she would struggle along with us."

"The conscience of America was part of its war-making capability, and we were turning that power in our favor. America lost because of its democracy; through dissent and protest it lost the ability to mobilize a will to win."

"We had the impression that American commanders had their hands tied by political factors. [US] generals could never deploy a maximum force for greatest military effect."

>>115825801
In short, France and Spain joined the war.

>>115824864
Because m-muh social backing

How many times are you going to post this?

Because of TV. People can watch the horrors of war while sitting safely on their couches.

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>>115826913
In total, the United States lost in Vietnam almost 10,000 aircraft, helicopters and 578 UAVs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_losses_of_the_Vietnam_War

Literally were BTFO

>>115826952
We don't say we won the war. We say we killed 3,500,000 gooks.

South Vietnam lost the fucking war. We didn't lose jack shit. The VC were in conference after their absolutely failed shit Tet Offensive debating on what terms they should stick to for their surrender.

Luckily for them they had allies in the US that won the war for them. Allies like John McCain, Dan Rather, John Kerry, Hanoi Jane Fonda, etc.

Guerrilla warfare and the fact that the Military Industrial Complex had no intentions of winning it was just a money scheme would be my guess
> Operation Phoenix

> Operation Phoenix!

>>115827324
How many Hinds did you lose in Afghanistan Ivan?

>>115825042
The kill counts of the war of 1812 and the revolutionary war say otherwise.
Our tiny island raped you bro.

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>>115824864
>But I will for five dolla!

Y'all motherfuckers need to read "Mind War"

It will take you twenty minutes and it's available online. It's a highly influential paper from the old head of the NSA, Michael Aquino.

TL:DR - America lost Vietnam because they lost control of the narrative. They allowed so much coverage of anti-war protests and the narrative became "Most Americans want to stop the war!" -these stories and the accompanying footage does not exist in a vacuum. Vietnamese news stations/government used it as a means to bolster confidence among the civilians. They literally never gave up because they thought if they just kept holding on, America would eventuallly cave to the pressure of its people and pull out. They were right.

That's why Mind War's main assertion is to never again lose control of the narrative, ESPECIALLY in the foreign country. They have to control THEIR media as well as our own. They must always present an image that they are winning and that things are going well. Aquino actually went back and added a comment in like 2000 saying how he could tell that the precepts of Mind War were expertly applied in the Iraq conflicts. Which is true. Did you ever think the Iraqi's had a chance? Of course not. And the protests were barely acknowledged, despite large resistance to the war.

The best part is the bit about propaganda. How propaganda is ultimately ineffective in that the propagandist knows he is being disingenuous, so he will never be able to make his propaganda as effective as it can be. A better way, is to assert "future truths", which are things that while they aren't true now, will be, because you will it to happen. Basically it's like "memeing" something into existence. You're not lying and propagandizing, but rather painting an image of the world as you wish it to exist, and you believe it 100% and assure with all effort that it comes true.

>>115824864
My grandfather personally killed 57 of them.
>lose

There was no objective except to spend money on the military industrial complex, therefor we more than won, faggot.

>>115824864

we didn't.

>>115824864
The answer is the same as the last time you asked.

America allowed the war to become a stalemate because pressing into north Vietnam ran the risk of provoking the Soviet Union and China into an open conflict. They spent the next decade spinning their wheels and annihilating endless waves of Norks with little difficulty. Then public support for the war dried up so the US packed up it's things and went home, and south Vietnam fell some time later.

>>115827712
In total, about 333 helicopters and 118 jets were lost during the war. At least 74 hinds out of them. Not even close to 10k though.

It was an unwinnable war. Gone were the days of capture the capital, win the game. We were fighting an insurgency, an idea, and ideas never die. Almost like gang warfare. Even if the generals were captured, they would just be replaced. Kill one man and all his brothers take arms.

But when your kill ratio is 20:1, you're certainly not losing.

>>115824864
We lost the public support at home and it was becoming political suicide. Not to mention we weren't fully dedicated and troops were beginning to lose morale

Tl;dr : hippies

>>115825042
Revolutionary war
>USA allied deaths
6,824 killed in battle
25,000–70,000 dead from all causes
Overall casualties up to 50,000
France: 10,000 battle deaths (75% at sea) Spain: 5,000 killed

Netherlands: 500 killed
>UK deaths
4,000 army troops killed in battle

Umad?

It was set up to fail

>>115827056
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but wasn't the reason the British used mercenaries, because their predominantly ethnic Irish and impoverished troops would have jumped at the chance to turncoat and settle in America?

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Father was in Nam'

They won virtually every single battle and fucked every Charlie up.

The main issue was that we couldn't go to North Vietnam so Vietnam wasn't a traditional march into the capital and burn it down kind of war. It was one more of attrition really. But don't get me wrong, my father made clear they absolutely went up North at times to fuck people up, it was just they could never publicly reveal that. He also mentioned he and his team personally killed Russians aiding the NVA/Vietcong as well. Again, something you can't broadcast.

American people got sick of a moot war so we left. Any Vietnam veteran will tell you to their last breath they didn't lose.

>>115824864

The US forced north vietnam to sign the paris peace accords and then left. That north vietnam chose to reinvade south vietnam does not change this. And while the US choosing not to re-engage north vietnam over this breech was a mistake, it was not a loss.

Tired of this "gook dirt farmers beat the US!" meme. They didn't. They lost every major battle and suffered far more casualties at an unsustainable rate. Which is why they caved to US demands to stop the invasion of the south.

Unfortunately, hippy retards who didn't even know why we were there demanded we not continue fighting when north vietnam resumed aggression, and hundreds of thousands were killed across southeast asia at the hands of the communists.

>>115828044
>US deaths
807,311
>Vietcong deaths
444,000

You kinda got rekt bro

>>115824864
We weren't willing to go to the level of brutality that would have been necessary to break them. Partly because it wouldn't have been worth it.

>>115824864
> Good, because I don't last long.

>>115824864
we had stupid goals in the war
hearts and minds never works

>serious question
You posted the exact same wording with the same image under the same flag yesterday.
Mods are gods and I am grateful that they made explicit the already attaining forbidding of redundant threads BUT
The biggest problem here was not redundant threads, it is one-line writing prompt one-posts. This format allows a spammer to quickly bombard us with brainless spam and drive good threads off the board before they can be archived. The brainlessness of the non-discussion offends the character of the board.
Imagine trying to have a substantive discussion while surrounded by robots who constantly demand to know your favorite color. /s/ has a minimum thread set-up requirement -- you cannot demand that everyone else write your thread for you -- and /pol/ needs one too.

>>115828486
Based.

>>115828486
>father was in 'nam
How fucking old are you? 50? Stop lying on image boards you autist.

>>115826379
This basically.
If your enemy refuses to break, you eventually reach the point where you decide it's not worth it anymore.
The only other option was to kill them down to the last man.

>>115828656

US deaths were 58 thousand.

>all this Yank damage control ITT
Sad! Many such cases!

>>115828486
>blabla my dad did this blabla my dad did that but there's no proof because it's all super secret

Did he also tell you about the time he got fucked in the ass by a 60 year old vietnamese farmer like the rest of your low IQ nation?

>>115828486
>It was more of a attrition one

what a fucking stupid war
Respects to your father tho

>>115828812

Not everyone has kids at 20 you stupid nigger

>>115824864
Were we even trying to win?

>>115828932
*US allies

>>115828044
>Gone were the days of capture the capital, win the game
oh come on. You never captured the capital, which was Hanoi. US could've invaded but haven't.
And you can win the war by taking capital and changing regime, US pretty much won in Serbia, Libya, Iraq. But haven't captured Hanoi and haven't assassinated uncle Ho.
The real reason that US lost in Vietnam was that North had strong backing of China and USSR. It's easy to bomb civilians in Belgrade, Bagdad and Tripolli and throw Milosevic to prison, hang Husein, and kill Gaddafi when there is no one behind their back. Wasn't that easy to bomb Hanoi.

>>115828998

He was wrong, it was not to attrition. Despite their claim otherwise, North Vietnam could not sustain their invasion losing 10 men for every 1 they killed. Which is why they had to sign a peace treaty and wait for US to withdraw before resuming their invasion of the south.

>>115825066
Its ok ameribro
we also did not "lose" the war, we just decided enough is enough

>>115825970
>You live to fight another day
>You fight an unwinnable fight and die

ANCIENT CHINESE LOGIC READ SOME SUN TZU

>>115828991
Yeah while wearing flip flops
>>115829086
I'm 19 with 2 kids, not my fault I'm successful with females.
Go out more often.

>>115829378

Being 19 with 2 kids doesn't make you good with women, it makes you a fucking dipshit

We didn't lose. We could have been more effective with less restrictive ROE for ground attacks in the early years but LBJ would rather have had Americans killed then some soviets in the wrong place and the right time. The contract money coming into his pockets from new orders was nice too. You thought shit we were doing in syria was crazy dropping leaflets look into some of the shit during vietnam like the time we bombed telephone poles. Ultimately we only lost in the court of public opinion but that was all it took.

>>115824864
Sabotaged by the British / Democrat Party
/pol/ still hasn't figured out the British, Chinese, Saudi Arabians and International Communist work for eacher? pffft, and you all call yourselves redpilled.

FDR and LBJ were British / Anglo puppets.

>>115829164
Assad would hang too but you saved him

The eternal soviet

>>115824864
Most of the war effort was held back by shitty ROE

>>115829548
There obviously more to it. Macnamara was a huge factor in that his team was trying to win a war based on statistics and forgot about the human element completely. I think he genuinely regrets it now.

>>115827865
ty ill check it out

>>115824864
We lost it because the Democrats tied our hands behind our backs through cutting spending and aid to Vietnam, and preventing the US from Bombing the Ho Chi Minh Trail. In all seriousness the Democratic Party and the new left of the time were so hopeful in the imminent revolution of the masses. Funny since global revolution will never occur, and free markets have trumped command economies.

>>115828812
Mid-20s. He had me when he was older.
>>115828991
You make it sound like he exaggerated like Jimbo from South Park. Mind you, Vietnam was a proxy war like Syria now. No major surprise we broke rules off the record. Do you really think when a Vietnam soldier flees up North we just sat there and did nothing?

>>115824864
we lost cuz johnson was horrible at his job by putting weird restriction on the american soldiers and allowed pointless plans to be executed that wouldn't phase the vietkong in any way. all that and and some of the equipment and vehicles were complete crap for combat

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>>115829423
>mad because he can't spread his genes like I can
I'm handsome, fit and have a 9 inch Penis.
What girl wouldn't want my genes.
>>115829570
Oh shut up you fucking autist.

>>115828954
>ITT britcucks still thinking they're relevant on the world stage

Go to bed ahmed.

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>>115825605

>>115829695

How can a dead guy regret things now?

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>>115829351
Burgers pls, Vietnam is still communist and you can't even put a base in there before getting BTFO'd

>>115824864

how did churchill lose your empire, then get voted your greatest leader?

>>115829855
Johnson was too risk-averse the Russians said they did have advisors in Vietnam(bullshit but thats the story) but Johnson didn't want to bomb the NVA SAM sites because he was afraid of killing a Russian advisor.

>>115828656
Your numbers are for shit, Mohammad. 58,061 humans v 3,500,000 dead gooks.

>>115830049
>Vietnam is still communist
Funny


>>115824864
Americans cannot into jungle. Guerilla warfare was too great

>>115828656
Literally 58,000 you autist

>muh tactical retreat
Srsly pathetic how cucked amerifats are. You got BTFOed by rice farmers just man up lol.

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>>115824864
>drop two nukes on Japan
>seventy years later, be told there was a better way to end the war
>don't drop any nukes on Vietnam
>forty years later, get asked how it's possible to lose the war

>>115825067
Most people over 50 remember the Vietnam War years, whether they're liberal or not.

>>115824864
>divided leadership
>lack of national support
>on the receiving end of asymmetric warfare on foreign soil
>nebulus objectives
this list goes on.

gulf of tonkin incident never happened. it was a stupid war. america should never have committed to it.

>>115826832
Vietnam isn't a power vacuum like Iraq.

>>115828229
Why would I be mad? You still lost.

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>>115829846
He had you when he was 45? Ok bud.
>>115829904
>56%
Your women think I'm relevant amerikike, can't blame them all girls want a real man.
>>115830291
>which includes civilians
>forgets to add American allies
You do realise that the actual estimation is ranged from 300k to 1.5m right?
Haha
You got butt fucked dude, counting the actual armed troops you got destroyed. Burning innocent civilians isn't making your atrophied little dick any bigger pedro.
>>115830339
>What is allies

>>115826876
This. Despite the fact that he wasn't the most tolerant of opposition groups, he's considered a national hero.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory

Funny how America always use a casus belli

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>>115824864
Human rights laws. Instead of burning them to death and Cushing them beneath our feet, we had to care about """""civilians"""""

>>115825801
because the american revolution had popular support in britain too

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At this point its useless to talk to these delusional amerifats who think Vietnam war was like Call of Duty.

Trump gonna call back all these Burgers soldiers in Middle-East and these retards are gonna say again a "tactical retreat" lmao

>>115830668

Nobody denies the south vietnamese were shit. That's why they needed our help

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>>115830587
>w-we totally won the revolutionary war, it doesn't matter that we have more casualties!

>What do you mean we lost Vietnam? LOOK AT THOSE CASUALTIES THO!

>>115830668
Yes.
I don't exactly care if you believe me or not. It's such an innocuous statement.

>>115824864
>How did America lose the Vietnam war?
it didn't. after the tet offensive, the war was effectively won. the north was out of options, out of supplies, out of time, out of everything. america could have steamrolled into hanoi soon after.

but what happened was the collapse of the american home front - leftist agitators and media had been stirring up division and anti-war sentiment for some time, and the government finally caved and ordered the army to fall back and eventually retreat from vietnam altogether.

>>115824864
We lost because there was no true cassius belli and we were too afraid of foreign involvement to go actually assault north korea.

>>115830873

The US didn't lose Vietnam. North vietnam signed the Paris Peace Accords. That was the win condition.

>>115830945
>korea.
i mean vietnam of course

>>115824864
it was a tie

>>115824864
Literally our people being such pussies that they force our troops back when we were about to win. inb4 American education look at the Vietcong losses during the tet offensive.

>>115830985
>w-we totally won
Vietnam is still communist.

>>115824864
The Communist Mayne Screen METEOR

>>115824864

Because we never invaded the north because we didn't want another Korean war with China in the mix.

Korean War:
175k US dead, 550k wounded.

Vietnam:
50k dead, 150k wounded.

Why discuss Vietnam when USA can't even control Afghanistan today after 15 years of occupation and has sekret talks with Taliban to run away while saving face. And nobody is even helping taliban like it was in 80's

>>115824864
Blame overconfidence on the US generals part, And a 'trigger happy' Intelligence agency that decided to do the same technique they did a year before (Putting a Pro american in power) WITHOUT making sure there was a 'safety', someone who could take relay if things went to shit

Also, Nixon getting impeached and quitting Command gave a boost of confidence to the North Vietnam: Gerald ford lacked balls, Nixon would have used Nuclear weapons if it went bad.

Blame also the South vietnam army being generally inefficent. (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ap_Bac )
>these chinks somehow crashed M113 in canals

And finally, I guess that you could say America wasn't ready for that kind of Jungle warfare, the way they deployed tanks in Vietnam

Leftist subversion, of course. The left did whatever it could to undermine the war effort in Vietnam, because they were trying to weaken the US and cause a Communist revolution here.

>https://status451.com/2017/01/20/days-of-rage/

I look forward to the day when we put bullets between the eyes of every worthless Communist parasite.

>>115831088
They may be "communist" but they still have McDonalds over there.

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We lost because the objective was to kill as many gooks as possible and hope that stomps out communism sentiment

>But we didn't lose!

Open a fucking history book. America called its boys home, claimed victory and watched as even its own citizens boo'd the returning soldiers for being monsters.

>>115830985
America would win the war if they would've captured enemy's capital (Hanoi) and killed\hanged\jailed enemy's leader (Ho Che Minh) and installed their regime. (like they did in Iraq, Libya, Serbia).
Capital is not taken, leader is not killed, 58k americans dead, 10 000 aircrafts lost, 3.5 mln local gooks dead - yet still burgers are claiming the victory.

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>>115826317
WEW

>>115830806
>France
>implying France didn't lose in Vietnam
>implying France didn't lose in WW2
>implying France didn't lose in Algeria

>>115830873
>42,000 deserters

KEK

>>115827079
>it's jungle not a desert, leaf

>>115831088

>America did not successfully genocide the entire Vietnam government

AHAHAHA U GUYS LOST TO FARMERS

I will answer your question when you can fucking spell SERIOUS

>>115831175
See>>115830784
If we didn't have autistic rules of engagement laws, the wouldn't be anyone left to oppose us

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>>115828656

>>115828812
His father was probably born in the late 40s or early 50s. Assuming that anon was born when his dad was in his 30s, anon is probably in his 30s.

>>115831258
Carrot

>>115824864
we won most of the battles but politics lost the war

>>115830387
>soviet union didnt nuke amerifags so muh capitalism superiority wins cold war!

Essentially your argument.

>>115829378
>19 with 2 kids
How the fuck do you have any time to shitpost?

The goddamn Democrats fucked us. We could've made a South Vietnam like Korea, but they wanted to spite Nixon, and repealed the deal he made to keep south Vietnam safe.

>>115824864
>soviet advisers out, soviet union cantained
>favorable peace treaty
looks like a win to me

>>115831754
He was trying to say that the only reason we didnt turn Vietnam to glass was because everyone got upset when we did it to Japan you nard

>>115831088

North Vietnam restarted the invasion again after the US left. That the US did not return was a mistake, but not a defeat. This is like getting chekmated, then letting the opponent leave the table, and then knocking over the king and claiming you won.

>>115831330

I claimed it was a military victory not a political one. It was not a political victory and I will never forgive the hippies for what they did.

>>115824864
This is a legit slide thread, same pic same topic yesterday.

Best part: republican president nominee Nixon torpedos vietnam peace talks to get himself elected.

SELF-KEKENING.

>>115827056
>>115827182
>>115830802
>they keep using the foreign allies meme
>fellow yurops didn't even join the conflict until after the declaration was signed and accepted, they basically only jumped in to end the conflict which wouldn't have happened if they had modern communications

ironically, britain lost because of guerilla attacks, not knowing the lay of the land as well, and trying to use conventional warfare

the same reasons america didn't win in vietnam

>>115831218
*tips tinfoil*
Even the "far left" like Bernie in the US is non-communist.

>>115831377
>forgetting the 49k german/colonial loyalists

"KEK"
Typing Kek in all caps doesn't make you sound less mad ;)
>>115831437
You're right America did lose to farmers. You seem upset.
>>115831567
Is this a pic of you?
>>115831791
It's 1:03am
>>115831982
Yeah uh huh sure.

>>115831258
le epik screamer-jumpscare dude xDD

>>115824864
We didnt lose, we just got bored and left.

>>115828812
shit, my father was a few years shy of being drafted to fight in nam, and I'm in my mid-20s.

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>>115831088
Triggered

>>115831175

Afghanistan is lines on a map. We went there to try out new toys to kill rag head explosive enthusiast clubs and we did. I mean, what did you expect? That we could entirely destroy an organization of millions, that lives among civilians and has no direct land holdings? You could sooner purge a city of every last mouse.

>>115831330
only objective was kicking the soviet presence out. that was achieved after we allowed china to invade after a favorable peace treaty. Why do you think Nixon visited China and set up the precursors to the one china policy?

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>>115828229
you keep telling yourself that, anon

>>115831175
If that's not the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is.

>>115832213
>>115831218
why would they subvert a war they started?

>>115824864
What are the chances of anyone posting in this thread knowing what they're talking about?

Serious question.

>>115831330
>3.5mil gooks dead
Sounds like a victory to me

>>115832235
>100k flee to Canada/Britain

why would I be mad, we won remember?

>>115824864
We had a cuck for a president that gave into liberals

>>115832283
It's okay, you can blow off some steam.
Rub one out while you hear me fucking your wife in the next room with my superior 9inch anglo cock
>>115832379
You literally just posted what I just said lmao

>>115831981
>we didnt use our nukes cause it would hurt everyone's feefees!
>implying soviets and chinese dont have nukes too

sounds a lot like defeat to me

>>115824864
saigon whorehouses and cheap heroin kiddo

>>115830381
No, the war was sabotaged by Democrat President Lyndon B Johnson (british puppet)

>>115826757
Except they now want capitalism

>>115832478
>100k flee
Nice to see America STILL loves pulling things out of their Arse.

>>115832527
HA, I DONT HAVE A WIFE FAGGOT

>>115831258
KALE MOTHERFUCKER

>>115831982
To claim military victory - you should've captured Hanoi. You haven't invaded North.
This Joe gets it right >>115831149
Again your enemy is North and Ho Chi Minh and their capital is Hanoi. How can you claim military victory if you haven't taken them down.
It's like to claim military victory over Nazis, but not capturing Berlin and Hitler alive and being president.

>>115832704
Sister?

>>115832733
I lied, it was carrot.

>>115832527
>You literally just posted what I just said lmao

You left out the part where over 50k Britons died overall, nigger

>>115824864

Media overthrew the elected government, and have ruled America ever since.

>>115824864
America and our military power is a big joke
Britain BTFO's us twice, in the rebellion and the 1812 war, we only won through underhanded tactics

after that, we never even came close to winning a war

ww2 was russia
korea was a loss
vietnam was a loss
Iraq and Afghanistan were losses

we're incompetent

>>115830806
Culling Commies in an on-going process. Don't worry ahmed, soon we will install Dictator Le Pen to hunt you down. No more popcorn for you faggot.

>>115824864
Color television.
People freaked out when they SAW blood pouring out of their brethren. Before that war casualties was somewhat vague, impersonal numbers.

>>115832796
>Iraq and Afghanistan were losses
no, the goalposts were just moved. i'd also argue iraq was a victory since saddam got btfo'd.

>>115832603
>LBJ sees vietnam war going to shitz
>does peace talks
>republican nominee Nixon torpedos peace talks
>to get elected
>war goes on another 4 years
>SELF-KEKENING

You republicucks are hilariously in denial.

>>115824864
It was a military victory but the intended goal to stop the spread of communism in the long run was a political failure.

It began when Ngo Dinh Diem was assassinated by a CIA backed coup and south Vietnam lost a competent leader that would have prevented destabilization and weakness of the Republic of South Vietnam.

A really defined victory would have been great if the U.S decided to aid the Republic of Vietnam to invade parts of Northern Vietnam damaging their momentum and resourceful bases. The Vietnam War was a war where the United States wanted to play defense and obviously it gave more energy for the NVA and their communist allies to keep fueling the VietCong to fight on even after the Paris Peace Accords were signed. By going on the offensive we would have been able to see more potential and competency from the ARVN if we had kept supporting them instead of cutting them off completely of resources to fight with. The U.S cut off resourceful aid towards 1973 and the other side kept on coming and coming. Overall it was a strategic failure in terms of containing communism in Southeast Asia and can teach a lesson on what not to do. A lot of mistakes and things to learn from the wins and losses of the Vietnam War.

>>115827743
>Most powerful military on the planet.
>Can't figure out that the colonists will hide behind trees and not wear bright red coats.

Your tiny island can get fucked. The winner in warfare is the motherfucker that doesn't quit.

>>115832747
lol she's a lib. If you wanna, bong

>>115832796
>we're incompetent

No, all it means is that the U.S. military is good at fucking up conventional armies, but doesn't do so well against guerrillas and insurgents.

>>115824864
>1960s
>Democrats start the war
>Mid-'60s
>Democrats escalate the war
>Late '60s - Early '70s
>Republicans try to win the war
>Mid-'70s
>Democrats make sure it's lost
Hmmm...

>>115832990
>intended goal to stop the spread of communism
soviet union*
which it was successful.

>>115824864
>low morale at home, i.e. hippies/liberals
>Vietnamese mostly used guerrilla warfare
>US Military command was on a leash, mostly since the MacArthur-Truman spat in 1951.

and the list can go on, but it wasn't a lose, it was a stalemate like in Korea, and the US decided to cut its loses and left.

>>115832736

>To claim military victory - you should've captured Hanoi. You haven't invaded North.

And? That was never the goal. The goal was to stop the invasion of the south. North Vietnam signed a treaty giving up their invasion of the south. The end. Not every war is won by destroying the other country entirely, it depends what the point of the war was.

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>>115831258
how did oyu do this

>>115829307
>first german joke that actually made me laugh
kek

>>115832796

You're an idiot. What "underhanded tactics" were used in the revolution or 1812? You're also forgetting the spanish war, mexican war, indian "wars". WW2 the US did less than Russia against Germany (though without the lend lease program, they would not have been able to), but the US beat japan almost single handedly.

Vietnam was a win (paris peace accords), korea was a tie. Both Iraq wars were quick, decisive victories. We never had a war in afghanistan, we occupied it (along with Iraq following the second iraq war) to hunt for sand nigger terrorists and killed them. Mostly a waste of time but we did kill quite aa few of them.

>>115833196
>WE WUZ preventing invasion of south!

Yeah.... nope. Vietcong marched into saigon and unified the country. What fking timeline are you living in?

>>115824864
They were not allowed to win the war, the military was hampered by politics.

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>>115825066

>>115832777
>and America still has more casualties

>>115825042
FPBP

>>115833530

That the north vietnamese broke the peace treaty doesn't change that they signed it and stopped the invasion. It was, militarily, a second invasion that the US (unfortunately) chose not to answer.

>>115824864
>How did America lose the Vietnam war?

it's called the weathe runderground, also we won the war, rich guys made money and black people died so the goals of the war were met

>>115833530
seems like they violated the peace treaty we secured for south Vietnam. looks like its their failure to protect their own country, we washed our hands of it after we won.

>>115831258
Don't steel my thoughts, anon.

>>115824864
They sent over a bunch of hippies.

>>115833530
2 years after the Americans left, yes.

>>115832972
>LBJ dindu nuffin!
You have no idea what a manipulative motherfucker the guy was. The "sabotage" was completely staged as a manufactured October Surprise.

>>115832211
Tacitly wrong, when the French and Spanish joined the British had more soldiers in America than the Americans, France and Spain escalated the war and forced Britain to commit to fighting in Europe. Overall more French soldiers died than American and - while the war was not an assured British victory without their involvement, the colonies would most likely either have lost the war or remained under British control with concessions.

>>115833196
Hah, it was never a goal. But if there was no backing of China\USSR, US would've invaded the North and brought uncle Ho down and installed their puppet and Vietnam wouldn't fell to Communism - and then that would've been US victory.
And now instead of accepting US were afraid to invade North because of them having China\USSR back and that what lead to overall loss.
Political victory was achievable for US by military, but losses were too heavy already and potential losses were even higher and US withdrew.

the US is majorly incompetent
I doubt our capabilities, I don't think we would win in a war against basically anyone
Russia or China would wreck us for sure

>>115824864
Some cunt on TV said the Tet offensive was actually not disastrous for the norks

>>115824864
Leftist hippies and literally Soviet agents in the media/government kept cucking until Democrat Senators forced us to withdraw.

>>115833640
haha signing treaty with an enemy to save the face doesn't equate to winning.

>>115832972
>Nixon torpedos peace talks
>orchestrates sino-soviet split
>imporves relations with china
>secures a better deal kicking soviets out of sea
>all objectives met
>get the hell out
Thank you based Nixon!

>>115824864
Nixon realized that "winning" that war would have left us rebuilding the entire country, and it would have been kind of like our recent experiences in Iraq, except with jungle. The gooks were ready to surrender after Operation Linebacker II, but we didn't want to stay in the quagmire any longer.

>>115834010

Every war the US has been in was a US victory except for Korea, which was a tie.

That being said, US attempts at nation building have been miserable failures.

>>115833628

>US deaths: up to 50,000
>UK deaths: at least 51,000

learn to read, moron

>>115824864
i wish she would love me long time desu

>>115834100

It wasn't to save face. North Vietnam literally could not continue against the US. They did not have the men or resources, their losses were far too great. That's why they signed the treaty. They were smart enough to recognize that the political climate in the US had changed and so the US would not retaliate if they broke the treaty later, but that doesn't change the fact that they surrendered. As I said before, US military victory, not a political one.

my dad told me when he was drunk that I most likely have a half brother in Vietnam

Wonder if life is better or worse as a hapa in an Asian country as apposed to a western country

>>115834276
Americans were 75,500 casualties though

UK was 52,800

Our planes don't even work
our # of troops is a flat out lie
our nukes are no longer functionall
the only good thing we've got going for us is a few working boats

Russia or China could steamroll us in a few weeks

>>115833793
>war going to shitz
>begs vietcong to let you go home
>they cant be bothered with you
>lets u go home with tail btw legs
>40 years later: IT WAS STALEMATE!

smells like defeat to me.

>>115833916
So it was a falseflag self cucking to make it seem like the other person was the one doing the cucking?

Doesnt matter still lost

>>115834485

It says "up to 50,000" right below that which implies no more than 50,000 so wtf. Blame Wikipedia for being dumb.

>>115832211
>lost because of guerilla attacks
This is a meme, the US avoided doing this since they wanted credibility, hence the creation of the continental army
We mostly fought open battles with the brits and got our asses blasted until the French and Spanish landed armies

>>115828812
I'm 18 and my dad is 70. It is pretty depressing.

>>115834199
>All objectives met!
Except the ones which started the fking war in the first place!!

>>115834735
such as?

The Vietgooks are based for defeating the Burgers.

>>115826757
Self-govern by which party? The Commies North or the anti Commies South? It's a victory for the Vietnamese but it depend which Vietnamese you are asking.

Because asymetrical warfare. The vietcong had superior tactics.

>>115834244
korean war isn't over

>>115834903

The vietcong lost every major battle and suffered overwhelming casualties in every fight with US troops. The idea that the north vietnamese actually did well is a retarded meme.

>>115834633
I'll blame you, American. You must pay me reparations for doing the maths, admit that anglos are master race.
>>115834724
No fucking way. Ling ling detected.

A withdrawal without completing the objective is still losing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSZosqXOyc0

>>115834803
Such as preventing south vietnam laos and cambodia from gg communist??
Sometimes i wonder if amerifats have amnesia.

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>>115830049
zoot alors !
Frogs started IndoChine mess and cried for Uncle Sammy to save their failed colonialism
> mfw Ike was cucked by France

>>115835011

Technically. But I would call the Korean Armistice Agreement a good enough point at which to call it a draw, at least in the context of the military conflict itself.

>>115835090
>laos and cambodia from gg communist??
The US actually supported the commies in those countries since they were hostile to the Vietnamese

>>115835015
It doesn't matter if they suffer overwhelming casualties, Its an insugrency. The vietcong lost every battle until the tet offensive when the tied turned. You can make the argument "oh well the u.s. could've won if it weren't for the dumb libcucks not letting us carpet nuke it" all you want but it doesn't make a difference. The vietcong inflicted enough casualties to make the U.S. withdraw by demoralizing them.

>>115835090

We did. Then we left. Then the North started again, but we didn't come back because of hippy faggots like you. Won the first match, didn't show up for the second.

>>115824864
America lost plain and simple.

Americans are just butthurt and refuse to admit the truth, but Vietnam was a catastrophic failure, despite the "hurrr but we won!!!!!"

I want to know, how the FUCK did the US win the war if you've failed literally every strategic objective you've planned before invading? They think "I killed more of the enemy, therefore I won" is how war works, unfortunately it isn't. I know it is a stereotype that Americans are obese and largely ignorant, but it is just so true that one has to wonder if it truly is an oversimplification of reality.

>muh bone spurs!

Even the orange cheeto could see vietnam was a lost cause

>>115835090
if by """communism""" you mean getting rid of soviet advisers which was the actual reason then yes we did in fact achieve those goals. Soviets were a non issue in SEA after the Vietnam war.

>>115825605

america capitulates during every war.

the only time we go all out TOTAL WAR is when we're actually in danger (See Japan)

otherwise we're trying to turn the country into a puppet

>>115834438
They were smart enough to let you save face.

Think again why you were able to take down Gaddafi, Milosevic and Husein, but not Ho Che Minh and don't repeat it wasn't a goal.

>>115831330
The point was never to take Hanoi.
We got them to sign the Paris Accords, which was what we wanted, and then left. After that the North broke the Accords and invaded again. Hippies at home prevented the US from getting involved again.
Although, by your own criteria N Vietnam didn't win either. They never took Washington, never hanged Nixon or installed a communist government in the US

>>115824864
Well I'm about to fuck my Vietnamese gf so I definitely won

>>115835264

They lost the Tet Offensive. All it did was surprise the US that they had any gas left in the tank at all. The US left after the north vietnamese gave up and signed the paris peace accords, officially ending their invasion as was the US's goal. That the US did not brnig up arms against them when the north vietnamese broke the treaty doesn't change this, though the US absolutely should have, and everyone who opposed it who still lives should be hanged.

>>115835024
Why do you doubt me? My dad was still playing women well into middle age and then knocked my mom up by accident.

>>115825066
That's more accurate, it's false to say you won, you would had had you stayed however.

>>115835285
>war going to shitz
>begs vietcong to let you go home
>they cant be bothered with you
>lets u go home with tail btw legs
>40 years later: IT WAS STALEMATE!

smells like defeat to me.

>>115835374
*goalpost moving in progress*
Sure, vietnam was about advisors not regime change, just like iraq was so totally not about WMDs amirite

>>115835287

The US decisively won every fucking battle. It was not even close. Your understanding of the war is a stupid meme, cooked up by liberals 50 years ago and spoonfed to your retarded highschool teacher when he was in highschool, who in turn fed it to you. And to us, by no means are the talons of leftism any less ingrained in our public school curricula...

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>all the autistic pakis ITT

>>115835448
Well N Vietnam goal was to retain their country independence. US goal was regime change.
Military victory in Independence war and in regime change wars are different.
Stop claiming Hanoi and Ho Che Minh were not a goal. It was not achievable goal and was declared not a goal. And that's why subsequently Saigon fell as well.

>>115833530
VC != NVA

>>115835751
>regime change
The "regime" did change it changed from the Soviets to the Chinese which we were ok with. Whole reason Nixon went to China and helped deepen the Sino-Soviet split.

>>115835440

It. Was. Not. A. Goal.

>and Husein

Hey, interesting you bring HIM up. We didn't actually depose him after the first Iraq war either, the goal was simply to stop the invasion of Kuwait. Do you seriously not consider the first Iraq war an american military victory?

>>115835552
Yeah and the american populace was demoralized to the point where the us pulled out. This is liek saying 'o we could've won afghanistan but those pussy's MADE us leave"

We lost because the voting majority in the US did not have a the stomach for total war.

The end.

>>115834565
When Singapore does anything of note let us know

>>115827712
>>115827324
The Russians right. American commanders would lose 3-4 helicopters on average when trying to retrieve downed pilots. They were up against NVA anti-air batteries hidden throughout the jungle as well as a lack of imaging equipment like infrared which made the AA almost impossible to spot. [spoiler] Not to mention most batteries were mobile.[/spoiler] The SEALs actually came about because they lost so many aircraft they decided to just send some boats to go get the pilots.

>>115836051
first Iraq war was Kuwait independence - achieved
second Iraq war was regime change - achieved

>>115835927

>US goal was regime change.

No it wasn't, it was to defend south vietnam

>Stop claiming Hanoi and Ho Che Minh were not a goal.

They were not

>It was not achievable goal

It was

>And that's why subsequently Saigon fell as well.

Saigon fell because retarded hippy faggots refused to allow us to help the south vietnamese in round two. One of many reasons why I will never, ever respect an older leftist.

>>115836257
>No it wasn't, it was to defend south vietnam

Saigon falls didn't it?

>>115835448
>Invade with a large force
>Attempt to destroy the communist north
>You, along your South Vietnamese allies, outnumber the enemy greatly in men, resources, technology, machinery, etc
>Enemy still forces you into signing a peace treaty


How humiliating senpai...

>>115835824

You are literally retarded, I hope you realize that. That is not how war works you childish cretin. War is not a game where you kill people and win, war is not an ends, but a means, to acquire what you desire. There has been no war in history where an army invades foreign territory in the mere hopes of slaughtering enemy fighters and going back. No, every war starts with something, it is called a strategic objective.

You've won some tactical battles, true, but you lost the war when you failed to accomplish any of the planned strategic objectives. It is kind of mindblowing, because the Soviets also annihilated the ragheads in Afghanistan, killing lots of them while losing few of their men, yet people like you consider Afghanistan a defeat for the Soviet Union despite tactical victory. Use your pea-sized brain for once...

>>115825042
>>115825066
>>115825067
>>115827917
The longest river in Africa

>>115827324
5.2 million sorties
Huge K/D boost against the Mig
>Vlad fell for the communist jew

>>115824864
A topical slaughter may have been warranted but pressing the issue could have created enemies in high places. Asia is serious business.

>>115824864
What war? We never declared war on Vietnam, the US has only declared war 5 times and that wasn't one of them.

>>115836257
Oh, didn't see your last sentence. Yeah fuck the older leftest.

>>115836059

>Yeah and the american populace was demoralized

More like abhorrently misinformed by the shitty media and willfully ignorant about what the war was, who the enemies were, why we were there or how well we were actually doing (which was quite well)

Afghanistan wasn't a war. The US just set up camp and used space weapons to test on sand nigger ant mounds for a decade. A waste of money? I'd say, but it wasn't a war at all.

>>115836405

Yeah, after the US left, in a second invasion the US (incorrectly) chose not to answer

>>115836405
Yea, what 10 years after the initial fighting began, and over 2 years since the US literally pulled out

>>115836439

>No, every war starts with something, it is called a strategic objective.

And that was achieved with the Paris Peace Accords. Dipshit.

>yet people like you consider Afghanistan a defeat for the Soviet Union

No, I consider it a waste of their time in resources, just like our time spent there.

>>115824864
Same reason the British lost the revolutionary war

>>115836632
I don't think they were ignorant at all. People always claim it was just libcuck hippies arguing for the war to end. But in reality a shit ton of people got fucking drafted for a foreign war that had a little impact on the average person. The U.S. suffered around 50,000 casualties, a large percentage of which joined involuntarily.

>Afghanistan wasn't a war.
It was still billions of dollars and thousands of lives only to not achieve any objectives even with the technological advantage.

>Can't invade NV, due to starting WWII with China, Russia
>Can't stop guerrilla war in SV, due to existence of NV, and support from aforementioned powers

>>115837232
Vietnam wasn't a war either, just another stupid military action.

>>115824864
it was a huge clusterfuck, one real way to win it was the planning of an invasion of hanio but the risk of starting a war against russia was there so it was counter insurgency in south vietnam, americans wanted to treat it with high body counts, australians on the other hand, we treated it as an actual guerrilla war, thats why the phuoc tuy province worked out well, the real mistake was having a large military presence

>>115824864
Not willing to go all the way.
>No bombing to the Stone Age
>No Scorched Earth policy
>No Total War - kill everyone beyond South Vietnamese borders
>No cutting supply lines from China (by setting up air denial systems and warning Chinks of nuclear strikes if they continued), allowing Chinks to support the Viet Cong
>No secret purges of commies on the domestic front (aka hippies and their (((handlers))) )

>>115837748
You mean willing to do something entirely impractical which arguably wouldn't have worked anyway?

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>>115831258
Fucking mind reader.

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>>115831175
Why discuss Afghanistan when Russia can't even control Syria today after 5 years of occupation and has sekret talks with ISIS to run away while saving face. And nobody is even helping ISIS like it was in 90's

>>115836941
>Achieved with Paris Peace Accords

KEK

NVA gained more territory after the PPA, hahaha. Nice strategic objective you had there, was an increasing in communist territory your objective all along? Jesus Christ, how can Americans be THIS fucking stupid?

>However, the agreement's provisions were routinely flouted by both the North Vietnamese and the Saigon government, eliciting no response from the United States, and ultimately resulting in the communists enlarging the area under their control by the end of 1973.

Does this make you cry at night? You LOST, get over it you child..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Peace_Accords#Aftermath

>>115836119
We caned an amerifag for vandalism does that count? :D

>>115824864
Lefties rioting and protesting, newly elected government passed a bunch of shit that made everyone come home. Many people were lost because of this

>>115837232

>But in reality a shit ton of people got fucking drafted for a foreign war that had a little impact on the average person.

The average US citizen at the time, perhaps. But stand among the unmarked graves of a million south east asians killed by the communists, because we refused to come back, and ask them if it was a worthy cause.

You could make the case that it simply wasn't our problem, and so using the draft was unjustified. I don't have a good answer for that, I don't know enough about the period to know if volunteer forces would have been sufficient. But I do know that there was no way they could have known in advance that the USSR would collapse when and how it did. As far as existing leadership was concerned, they could and would spread over the whole world if unchallenged.

>It was still billions of dollars and thousands of lives only to not achieve any objectives

Taliban is a ghost of what it was before and afghanistan is still controlled by the government we backed. So, decent outcome at least.

>>115838199
why discuss earth when zeta reticuli can't even control luna after 50 xenoyears of occupation and sekret talks with the UN to run away while saving face. And nobody is even helping UN like it was in the beforetimes

>>115838416
atleast australia's involvement wasn't that bad, we could actually keep control of a province

>>115838234

They gave up and quit, and then restarted after the US left. The US won and north vietnamese lost, that's all there is to it.

>>115825066

You lost it.

You were unable to translate tactical success into a strategic, political victory.

Pic related

>American victory escape

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>>115838596

>>115838596
arguably it helped advance the Military Industrial Complex, so in a way it was a real victory for the true constituents of America, the western Economic Elite

>>115838596

>Political victory
>Literally bomb them so they sign a treaty

A fuckin petal

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Stop bashing relentlessly USA anons because they lost 1 of 2 proxy wars (Bay of Pigs invasion) in the Cold War.

To the few US anons deniers but Vietnam War is a defeat

>>115824864
Hapa master race

>>115840135
fake news, I know for a fact that we won that war and all other wars and the United States currently owns all land in this Galaxy

1. We didn't lose the Vietnam war, it was won in 8 months flat
2. We lost the second Chinese-American war because 120 years of leftist propaganda turned our people into a bunch of pussies
I know these are always bait threads but I was hoping they would have advanced after a decade of trial and error

>>115824864
We didn't though

>>115825801
The Spanish

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>>115838589
>>115840135

>Result : North Vietnamese victory
>Withdrawal of American-led forces from Indochina
>Communist governments take power in South Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos
>South Vietnam is annexed by North Vietnam


>However, as U.S. casualties mounted throughout the conflict, American domestic support for the war had deteriorated, and by 1972 there was major pressure on the Nixon administration to withdraw from the war. Consequently, the U.S. brought great diplomatic pressure upon their South Vietnamese ally to sign the peace treaty even if the concessions Thiệu wanted could not be achieved.

>Hurrr durrr but we wannnn!!!!!! We got what we wanted!!!! waaaaaah

Absolutely hilarious.

>>115824864
America wasn't willing to fight China/

>>115836446
Haha i just got it
DA NILE

>>115841467
We did you illiterate cuck
We pushed the NVC and other groups all the way into China and effectively had all of Vietnam u set our control after just 8 months of combat operations
The Chinese liked their new Vietnamese immigrants about as much as they liked their Korean immigrant friends who came to visit during the 50's and proceeded to bankroll and send fucktons of troops to push us back

>>115841837
Literally nothing you said invalidates the fact that we lost

>>115824864
THEY WERE AFRAID OF USE NUKES

Jfc I just wanted someone to post pics of Vietnamese cuties.

This thread sucks

>>115824864
Tfw she won't love me long time

Stated objective of the war in Vietnam: Stop the spread of communism.

Result: Only 5 communist nations remain in the world today, several of them "communist in name only" and are really chrony capitalist states. Vietnam is one of those.

How did we lose again?

>>115841837
>We pushed the NVC and other groups all the way into China

The fuck is the NVC? If you're talking about the NVA, no you didn't you tard, the US made very few territorial gains. If you defeated the NVA, you would've never needed a peace treaty you retarded fuck. In fact, as I mentioned earlier, after negotiations of the PPA concluded, the NVA gained more territory than it had before the US invaded. Communist territory grew because of the war. As I mentioned earlier

>However, the agreement's provisions were routinely flouted by both the North Vietnamese and the Saigon government, eliciting no response from the United States, and ultimately resulting in the communists enlarging the area under their control by the end of 1973.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Peace_Accords#Aftermath

I'm sorry if history triggers you, but that's how things are.

File: remember_white_flags.png (27KB, 322x501px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 322x501px

>>115835099

White Flags.