Homegrowmen (Farming and Gardening) Thread #23

>>451933
US Farm Income and Taxes,
http://www.hobbyfarms.com/farm-marketing-and-management/farm-income-taxes-14991.aspx

US Grants and Loans for Small Farms,
http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/usda/usdahome?navid=GRANTS_LOANS
http://afsic.nal.usda.gov/farms-and-community/grants-and-loans-farmers
http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic/pubs/funding.shtml

Managing Risks on Your Small Farm,
http://agr.wa.gov/Marketing/SmallFarm/managerisk.aspx

Chicken info and forum,
http://www.backyardchickens.com

Rabbit guide
http://www.agriculture.gov.tt/publications/manuals/rabbit-production-a-producer-s-manual.html

A public access seedbank for many types of rare or endangered plants; both edible and ornamental,
http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/index.htm

Organic and heirloom selections:
http://sustainableseedco.com/
http://www.seedsofchange.com/

Potato, Sweet Potato, and Tubers seed bank (free, but requies filling out forms and waiting in line):
http://www.cipotato.org/

Awesome interactive plant/gardening maps for USA, Canada, France, UK, BC, (frost dates, temp zones, etc):
http://www.plantmaps.com/index.php

Sprout seeds and info:
sproutpeople.org

Insect Habitats for attracting polinating bees, predatory/parasitic wasps, hibernating ladybugs, butterflies, etc.
http://www.inspirationgreen.com/insect-habitats.html

Toad and Hedgehog Habitats,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JetkWtw7Jc
http://familycrafts.about.com/od/frogcrafts/a/How_To_Make_A_Toad_Village.htm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/breathingplaces/hedgehog_home/
http://www.britishhedgehogs.org.uk/leaflets/L5-Hedgehog-Homes.pdf

Chili Peppers
http://www.fatalii.net/

More on Aquaponics & Aquaculture,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=26xpMCXP9bw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=_WgfaJjvfxA

>>451933
>>451935
All links were rechecked. Some were removed, some were changed.

>>451892
>Ah shiiiet, these just came in, the bottom right ones are Jalapeno chichimeca seeds of which i gave a few to a friend.
>Did you guys order anything?

I'm actually gearing up to order things this week. I'm one week behind. I'll be getting colorful heirlooms and things like purple potatoes/sweet potatoes. Definitely many types of heirloom tomatoes this year from seed. My problem is that I have tons of seeds saved. I just need to sit down and take stock and plan things out.

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Reposting garden plan for new thread. Hoping to get suggestions, constructive criticism, questions, etc.

The grey is going to be red 12" paving stones (3' main walkpath with 2' side paths). The boxes are going to be built out of 6'x8' untreated cypress fence paneling and supported by heat treated 2x4's. The enclosure is going to be 4x4 posts with 2x4 framing and chicken wire.

>>451943
Yeah 1" hexagonal chicken wire is the plan. Easy to work with and keeps out birds and animals. Should be big enough for honeybees and bumblebees.

I wish wasps weren't beneficial predatory insects. I fucking hate them. Total assholes.
I
'm in central Florida and it hasn't frozen where I live since I was a child, so I'm not too worried about that. The water should drain out of my irrigation system easily enough once I unhook the hose from the inlet.

>>451947
>I wish wasps weren't beneficial predatory insects. I fucking hate them. Total assholes.

lol Well, ones like paper wasps can be. There are many much smaller wasps that don't sting people unless caught in their clothing. They are solitary wasps. They use tiny holes in objects as homes. Some don't even look wasp-like and are so tiny you can bare even seen them (Trichogramma Wasps).

https://www.google.com/search?q=Trichogramma+Wasps&tbm=isch

>>451948
Oh god it's like a fly and a bee had a baby it's horrible.

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>>451949
But they are super tiny, so you rarely notice them, normally.

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I finally decided to ring in some new veggies and herbs I've been wanting to get. Feels like Christmas. Can't wait to get some of these going ASAP.

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Just found out about Romanesco Broccoli

I'm so fucking growing this shit in my garden.

Pic related for those of you who are unfamiliar.

>>452155
Man, that looks like a disease but I love it.

>>452160
It's a fractal, bro.

Romanesco Broccoli is unique because, somehow, it grows as a natural approximation of a fractal.

>>452155
>Romanesco Broccoli
so THAT'S what it's called

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Finalized my garden plan & decided on what I'm going to grow. Laid out the plan for what will go in which box, where, and how many will be planted.

I'm using Photoshop's grid function to help me plan but it doesn't save the image with it so for reference: Each box is 3' wide and 5' long. The space between plants such as the carrots & parsnips is 3".

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>>452192
Google up some companion planting stuff. You'll be able to save space and plant more things. One common one people use is the "3 sisters method". In the same place they will plant corn, allow it to grow up a little bit then plant peas or climbing beans, with those they grow squash.

"Beans are nitrogen-fixers and continually supply this macronutrient to the soil. Corn stalks provide structure for beans to climb, and squash vines provide a living mulch with their broad leaves that shade the soil, reducing evaporation and inhibiting weed seed germination. These three species have similar environmental requirements and don’t outcompete each other for water and nutrients, thus allowing all three species to survive."

http://www.reneesgarden.com/articles/3sisters.html

Cross referencing companion planting chart:
http://www.permaculturenews.org/resources_files/Poster_GDN_Com_Plant.pdf

Just stay away from all the esoteric about energies and shit. Stick to the facts.

>>452252
That's how I planned these beds. I put companions with each other and made sure to keep 'enemies' out of the same beds.

I don't really want/need to plant more. This is actually everything I wanted to plant minus sweet potatoes, but I barely eat sweet potatoes (or regular potatoes for that matter) so I don't mind not being able to plant them.

I was actually thinking of replacing the Yukon Gold Potatoes with Melons or Asparagus. I think I might TBH.

>>452296
>Yukon Gold Potatoes with Melons or Asparagus

But, YGP is so delicious! Best potato ever.

>>452306
Yes but I barely ever eat potatoes and if I'm gonna have a plant that'll take over 1/3 of my bed I'd rather it be a melon.

Also I'm doing organic gardening, no pesticides or fungicides or anything artificial, and yukon golds suffer from a shitload of different kinds of pests and diseases.

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>>452325
The only thing I put on my plants is water. I've never had trouble with YGPs before. They are an early crop and you harvest them in mid to late summer. Unlike Russets which you harvest a month or more later.

>pic related

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Anyone ever grow a giant pumpkin? I'm thinking about it this year and looking for inspiration.

>>452370
I'm scared too. My largest pumpkin was last season and it grew to around 78lbs/35kg. I can't imagine one over 1,000lbs/453kg. I have a hard enough time processing 600lbs/272kg of regular sized pumpkins and squash.

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>>452377
Squash isn't all that tasty to me. I want to turn it into a car/carriage for my nephews and nieces, so we can trick or treat in style. Plus giant fruit are hilarious. How big was your patch?

>>452393
>How big was your patch?

Not very big, only like 10-15 plants max, but they were like 25-40 feet long.

Now, watermelon, on the other hand, I would devour that thing.

>>452333
>krinkle cut

Woah, slow down there Satan.

Hi there, i go /out/ allot and always have trouble identifying trees plants etc.

any sources on identifying plants? Am i supposed to download an Atlas?
Please no shitty apps.

>>452571
Pocket guides, dude

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=pocket+plant+guide

These things are amazingly useful.

>>452603
is a wildflower one enough?
Will it cover bushes?

>>452606
I don't know. That'll depend on the author. Read the description of it and the reviews/questions that should tell you what it does and doesn't cover

>>452155
Good luck! Not to discourage you, but a good majority of those plants never end up forming heads. So, take steps to ensure a head forms, like providing it with ample nutrition and water, as well as ensuring proper planting time and that it is in a good place to get full sun exposure. Broccoli thrives in cool weather, so an early start is a good step to take to ensure good heads. Again, I don't want to discourage you from growing them, it's a very satisfying plant to grow, and I wish you the best of luck! It's well worth the extra effort.

I know it's mid winter, but would you guys be interested in any software to help you with your homegrowing?

Also if you do, what should it do?

>>452642
Mid winter?

Dude it's summer in Florida what're you talking about

>>452571
>>452606
No one source will cover everything even in one aspect. You'll need to really research finding materials. Online is the best place for that. The basic way to really help in finding this stuff is to google it in this manner:

yourlocation plant identification
yourlocation edible plants
yourlocation plant/fungi-type identification

Examples:

Idaho plant identification
Bannock County plant identification
Eastern USA plant identification

Europe edible plants
Burgos Provence edible plants
Southern France edible plants

Florida mushroom identification
New South Whales bush foods identification

Through that you'll be able to find books, online lists, photo galleries, youtube videos, online programs that you can check mark info on, etc.

>>452642
>what should it do?

Companion planting integration: automatically cross references all good and bad plants the plant you want to use works or doesn't work with.

Crop rotation planning and historical data: keeps track of all past crops grown and plots out both recommendations for future crops and the crops you personally select.

Various calculators: standard calc, soil pH calc, sunlight, water testing, fertilizer, etc.

Database creation and editing for notes, new plants, techniques, tools, etc: Each plant should have an large database on its uses, various growing techniques, diseases, disease preventions, as well as the ability to add photos for identification in various stages, and disease identification. Each plant database should allow for multiple threads. Like thread 1 is your techniques on how to grow the plant one way while thread 2 is your neighbor's techniques on how to grow the same type of plant. This should also allow the ability to add new plants to the database. This sort of thing should be done for each plant, tool, techniques and so on. Basically, you can make a editable form where the farmer can add to and create anything they want to make it as complicated as they like without really needing a ton of programing and presets.

Save files, databases, and profile files for nearly everything from planning to notes. These should all use simple and widely used file formats (.txt) that anyone can edit in another editor and import/export as needed. People should be able to trade their files, profiles, and databases.

Visual representation of your garden(s) with the various info. It can have preset images you can click and drag around to position by hand or snap to a grid. And you'd be able to import your own images if you want. Mouseover tool tips can pop up when you hover over 1 vegetable or soil type to give you info on everything in its database or only what you want to see there.

I'm sure i could come up with tons of other stuff.

>>452666
Now that all sounds cool, but it will take a lot of work, which will take a lot of time, I mean years.

Waht one small subset of that would be useful?

>>452691
lol Well, some people do make a business of making such programs for farmers. So, I'd imagine you'd need to go that route. Maybe even use a website like a crowd funding site to help with finances.

>Waht one small subset of that would be useful?

Most anything will be fairly complicated from a programming standpoint. The least you can do would be able to make lists of things to do and set notification timers for when the time comes to do them, which can send an email or text message to your smartphone. A click-drag graphic program to plot out a simple garden.

Check out a link in the OP of the thread for a planner program,

http://www.motherearthnews.com/garden-planner/vegetable-garden-planner.aspx

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>>453105
Monsanto, please go.

>>452666
>Companion planting integration
the big problem with this is the existing science behind companion planning is tenuous at best. this requires more research before making it into a database, and even then it probably depends heavily on things like location and soil culture.
>recommendations for future crops
kind of the same. this depends heavily on environmental conditions, in particular soil culture and expected weather.
>disease identification
plant disease identification is complicated. usually to figure out the specific pathogen you need to send it to a lab.
the database stuff is cool though

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Posted this thread on /diy/ (>>>/diy/760975) but was directed here.

Here it goes, I plan on making a small-scale indoor aquaponics setup using an aquarium 80x30x30cm(or something similar, will adjust accordingly when the time comes).
This is just for fun and I don't expect to start on this before spring. I plan to keep goldfish in the fishtank so I don't need a heater, and want to plant some paprika, tomato and pepper plants.
Does anyone have any experience doing this? And if so, care to give some tips? Like the capacity of the pump and such.
I'll post some more pics.
I've been googling around and the only sites that come up are some paranoid 'GMO is the devil incarnate' or prebuilt sites without any actual info.

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Here's the reservoir and planter I intend on putting together. Water would flow from the flood compartment on the left into the planter, right, before returning to the tank.

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Pic from google.

I want it to look something like this in the end, only with a 10cm or so gap between the tank and the wooden planter for access to the tank for feeding/cleaning.

I think I'll line it in some sort of pond-foil.
Have the water come into the top left, about 18cm up and flow out on the right, through a filtered hole, into the planter at about 15cm up.
Then at the right, either in the bottom or about 3cm up flow out a hole and back into the fish tank.

Any tips or ideas from you guys?


I'm downloading the torrent atm. But if possible would like some personal accounts on this sort of thing.

>>453166
>the big problem with this is the existing science behind companion planning is tenuous at best.

Then stop googling up the esoteric crap. Use google scholar.

scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=companion+planting

>recommendations for future crops

1: This can be based on previous crops planted in the crop rotation. For instance, you don't want to plant cabbage in the same place you had kale the previous ear due to pests. 2: It can also be based on specific food dishes or diets set up by the farmer using the program. Like the farmer wants to make salsa, so the program recommends various vegetables currently in the database that are normally used in salsa. You can go one further by showing the farmer that some or all of the mix of veggies for salsa can also be used for other recipes like spaghetti sauce or whatever.

>plant disease identification is complicated

That is just a database of photos of what the diseases look like as well as any additional photos the farmer wants to add to it. The additions can be from online or the farmer's own camera as part of historical tracking and identification. It'd be up to the farmer to actually 100% identify the problem. The program itself wouldn't be doing that.

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>>453168
Your search terms may have been a bit off while looking for info. Try this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Aquaponics+indoor+DIY

Some of the results are getting me thinking too,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEW2fEX2Skc

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>>453171
Murray uses a "Automatic Bell Siphon" system that he shows how to make the mechanism for. It goes into the plant tub. The pump will fill the tub up and the fill-flush thing will dump all the water once it reaches the proper depth. Then it refills again. This allows air and oxygen to get to all parts of the roots as well as water. Nothing sits in water that way. It is in the "DIY Aquaponics DVD (Aquaponics The First 12 Months And Aquaponics DIY DVD)" package if you are able to find a torrent for it or just buy it from his site (shown in pic). The device can be scaled up and down since it is just some pieces of pvc pipe and stuff from your local hardware. There should also be lots of places online showing how to make an "Automatic Bell Siphon".

>>453185
Looks easy enough. I'll just experiment with the water flow.

>>453190
Thanks for the info. I never thought to come to /out/ for this until that one guy told me. You guys are really helpful.
Thanks.

>>453105
Well shit I had no idea it was illegal to grow my own vegetables. I'm so sorry. I'll stop immediately and go back to buying chemical laden gmo vegetables from Walmart like a good American.

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>>453208
You have no clue.

http://www.farmtoconsumer.org/farm-raids.html

http://thecompletepatient.com/article/2008/december/5/seems-us-forgot-tell-navy-seabee-chad-stowers-real-war-being-fought-hereand

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/15/texas-swat-team-conducts-_n_3764951.html

http://wearechange.org/swat-team-raids-organic-farm-confiscates-blueberries/

http://www.stopagenda21inms.com/index.php?/Food-Control/farm-raids-in-the-united-states.html

http://grist.org/article/food-five-tips-for-surviving-a-raid-on-your-farm-or-food-club/full/

http://www.infowars.com/government-raids-on-small-farmers/

>>453208
Criminals everywhere.

>>453231
organic farmers should be subject to the health code, same as anyone else

>>453231
I remember when that first happened, there was a tripfag who said he had spent some time at the farm in Arlington that got raided. Apparently it was a weird commune with a charismatic leader type guy in charge. Not very important, just a little piece of information.

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Hey y'all, guy who built the raised beds in the last thread is back, cataloging my seeds to prepare for this year's growing season! Exciting stuff. I only have 54 square feet to work with at the moment, so I don't think everything here is going into the garden, but I just wanted to record what I have, and what I want to pick up. Feel free to comment and recommend things for someone in hardiness zone 9B in California. Here's the current list:

Carrot, rainbow blend (Daucas Carota subsp. Sativus) x1000 approx
Oregon Sugar Pod II Pea (Pisum Sativum) x200 approx
Plain Leafed Italian Parsley x200 approx
Marketmore 76 Cucumber (Cucumis Sativus) x(unknown)
Heirloom Cilantro (Coriandrum Sativum) x100 approx
This next section is all from Wintersown.org, shoutout to those guys for being a great resource for new growers:
Jerusalem Gold Hybrid Sunflowers x50
Red Cherry Tomato x28
Great Stuff Pepper x16
Cherokee Sunset Flower x200
Pink Coneflower x20
Lorelay Spinach x50 approx
Florida Broadleaf Mustard Green x50 approx
Grandie Foglie Valentino Basil x150 approx
Calypso Cucumber x25
This last section is from a few assorted members of Gardenweb, many thanks to them for their generosity
Qiyanai Huang China Orange Tomato x20 approx
Old Ivory Egg Tomato x20
Subarctic Plenty Tomato x(unknown)
Rutgers Tomato x30 approx
Indoor Red Cherry Tomato x(unknown)
Uncle Mark Bagby’s Tomato x18
Coustralee Tomato x17
KBY Tomato x25
Black Plum Tomato x3
Lincoln Adam’s Tomato x20 approx
Purple Pear Brandywine Tomato x3
Sarnowski Polish Plum Tomato x3
Shannon’s Tomato x15 approx
Black Cherry Tomato x5
Oxheart Neighborly Tomato x10 approx
Cuostralee [sic(?)] Tomato x(unknown)
Kellogg’s Breakfast Tomato x5
Marglobe Tomato x(unknown)
Hale’s Best Cantaloupe x26
New Yorker Tomato x8
Granny Cantrell’s German Red Tomato x5 approx
Yellow Perfection Tomato x22
Amur Tiger Striped Tomato x20
Copia Bi-color Tomato x20
Indian Moon Tomato x4
Todd County Amish Tomato x10

>>453238
In my rush to post this after tediously counting out the seeds, I forgot to add what I want to add! Some things I'm thinking about getting:
Hot(ter) peppers
Zucchini
Marigolds

Also something that should be said is that most of those tomato varieties are not going to be used, since there's simply not enough space to grow them all currently. What I'm probably going to do is start them indoors in germinating pots, see which ones come out strongest, and vary up the tomatoes I do grow based off of what plants germinate and grow strong, and what plants don't. I think I will buy some large pots to grow a few in, because that's easier than building entirely new beds.

>>453238
>Qiyanai Huang China Orange Tomato x20 approx
>Old Ivory Egg Tomato x20
>Subarctic Plenty Tomato x(unknown)
>Rutgers Tomato x30 approx
>Indoor Red Cherry Tomato x(unknown)
>Uncle Mark Bagby’s Tomato x18
>Coustralee Tomato x17
>KBY Tomato x25
>Black Plum Tomato x3
>Lincoln Adam’s Tomato x20 approx
>Purple Pear Brandywine Tomato x3
>Sarnowski Polish Plum Tomato x3
>Shannon’s Tomato x15 approx
>Black Cherry Tomato x5
>Oxheart Neighborly Tomato x10 approx
>Cuostralee [sic(?)] Tomato x(unknown)
>Kellogg’s Breakfast Tomato x5
>Marglobe Tomato x(unknown)
>Hale’s Best Cantaloupe x26
>New Yorker Tomato x8
>Granny Cantrell’s German Red Tomato x5 approx
>Yellow Perfection Tomato x22
>Amur Tiger Striped Tomato x20
>Copia Bi-color Tomato x20
>Indian Moon Tomato x4
>Todd County Amish Tomato x10
>>453238
Someone really likes tomatoes

>>453243
Haha it's not me, it's the people who sent me seeds! But I'll try to honor them and their gifts by attempting to grow the ones I can, and giving the rest to the local school for their garden program.

>>453236
I was in a farm raid. A tomato farm got raided because someone "anonymous" gave a tip they were growing weed there. They destroyed over 10k tomato plants and the owners' insurance wouldn't pay for it. They went bankrupt. This was in the 1990s. Best fucking job I evr had in my life. -10F and snow outside, 90F inside and I'm in shorts taking care of plants.

It was a fucking tragedy.

>>453238
>54 square feet
>nearly 2,500 seeds

Yeah, that will be many year's worth of seed. You can do starts and sell/trade them. That's pretty easy to do and you can make a bit of money from it.

>>453252
That's so messed up.

>>453254
Hm, interesting idea. I was just going to give away the ones I didn't use through SASE or through my friends, but starting them isn't a bad idea at all. I'll definitely look into that.

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>>453171
>http://www.motherearthnews.com/garden-planner/vegetable-garden-planner.aspx
/an here. all your goldfish are going to live a horrible life/death unless you buy a proper sized aquarium for them (ie. 50+ gallons). You should think about just getting a regular aquarium and pouring waste water over the plants in your garden (that's what I do it works good). In that way your plants get a good amount of fish waste in the water and your don't have a nasty ass goldfish death chamber like in the pic you posted. Also if you like growing things you can really get aquatic plants in there, most of them are super easy to grow and look great.

>>453410
Do you know how aquaponics works? It takes the waste water and filters it through the growing medium. Bacteria in the growing medium help cleanse it chemically and change it into viable fertilizer for the plants. A correctly done system can be any size. You just need to monitor the chemicals and adjust if needed. It normally takes a couple months or so for the microbes to fully colonize the system and for the system to stabilize. The bacteria keep the system from becoming toxic to the fish and help feed the plants.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquaponics

Growing medium like solid stone, marbles, or anything solid or with a smooth surface isn't as good as highly porous materials. The highly porous stuff is better able to hold a higher concentration of bacteria. Some systems employ an additional tank that has sand in it. The pump keeps the sand blowing up and suspended in the water of the tank just enough to prevent it from falling down and not too much to have it exit the tank. This allows more surface area for the bacteria to colonize.