How can V8 swaps compete?

>>14332676
because it only takes 500 bucks and an afternoon

>>14332676
5.2L quadrotor?

>>14332679
good meme lad

>>14332680
26B I suppose it would be called

>>14332676
Because you can make it more than a year without a rebuild.

Also, an LS swap is actually lighter than the stock 13B-T setup, I can only imagine how front heavy that thing must be. An LS can probably make more power than that does, too.

>>14332687
dumb amerifat detected

>>14332676
>>14332680
>>14332686
>only a 4 rotor
There's some rich chinese dude around here with a 6 rotor FD

>>14332687
>LS separate is lighter than 13B turbo
What drugs are you on?

>>14332703
A GM small block is a pretty tiny engine. With an aluminium block, it's pretty light. Do you know the numbers? If you're going to compare numbers, you need numbers.

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>>14332745
>aluminium 13b
>109 pounds

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>>14332676
trick quiestion OP

they can't

>>14332750
>a p-port version of this engine

so.. Not the engine he's holding..
making the entire statement irrelevant

>>14332676
>wasting all that time and energy just to compete

>>14332767
>MuhV6
back to r9k neckbeard

>>14332676
Reliability

>>14332703
You're forgetting the weight of the turbo system.

Go look it up, an LS-swapped FD actually weighs slightly less than a stock one.

>>14332795
> LS-swapped FD actually weighs slightly less than a stock one.
citation needed

>>14332750
How can I make my renesis make 300hp

>>14332786
>LS engines
>reliable
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2015/10/c7-corvette-z06-and-c6-427-owners-file-class-action-lawsuit-against-general-motors/

>>14332703
>>14332745
>>14332750

It sounds like absolute bullshit but it's true, mainly because of the fucking huge cast iron manifolds for the turbo on the 13b.

Fully dressed 13B-REW w/transmission: 534.2 pounds.

Fully dressed Aluminum LS1 w/transmission:
497.2 pounds.

Now, these figures do not account for the possibility of calibration error, oil left in a sump, what have you, but they're at least a ballpark figure. Give it plus or minus 5% but it still paints the same picture.

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>>14332809
>13b with transmission
>LS without transmission

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>>14332814

Reading comprehension: both dressed with transmission.

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>one of THESE fucking threads again...

DON'T DO IT!

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>>14332818
well im sorry, because an ls with transmission weights 609

I love rotary engines too guys but c'mon.. u get them for the feels.. not to race idiots down a stretch of highway and brag about whose dick is bigger.

Please, keep doing your ls swaps.. but count me out.

>>14332827
You honestly don't need a transmission for the LS. My friend said he connected his to the driveline because his Nissan was rear wheel drive... so I guess that means the Chevrolet engine is lighter after all. Just my two cents, I'm no expert

>>14332850
>hello_fellow_rotards.jpg

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>>14332853
>the LS engine is lighter because the 13b still has the transmission

hmm

>>14332803
By selling it and getting an FD.

>>14332827

Is that iron or aluminum? Aluminum supposedly weighs ~80 lbs less, take that off of the 609 and that leaves you at 529, which accounting for some measurement error jives with the 497- ( a 5% error would be 502 lbs, which is 5 pounds off, which is basically 1 sump's worth of oil)

Just an observation.

>spoilers: It's actually kinda hard to measure these weights accurately partially because of calibration and scale types, and partially because of the fact that "fully dressed" means different things to different people

It's fun to watch the pissing contest though.

>>14332807
>every V8 ever is an LS7
can you stop being retarded
>is a rotard
oh okay, you can't.

>>14332873
>LS1
an aluminium one

>>14332874
the lightest production v8 is the LS tho, so unless you want an even heavier car I dont see ho that is relevant

>>14332859
Are you dumb? You're dumb.

The LS might not even need a transmission whereas the other engine does, from the looks of this thread. Your argument is invalid. Good day sir.

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>>14332888
>the ls1 might not need a transmission

>>14332883
well if you're gonna be heavier anyway you might as well get a decent engine.
personally i'd fit a bmw m5 v10 or m3 v8 with a gearbox on the back axle

>>14332894
>doesn't know about ALL AMERICAN® TORKS™.

>>14332883
>the lightest production v8 is the LS tho

I think hes talking about the LS7 which is a different engine. The other guy posted a link to the LS7 lawsuit claiming all LS engines are unreliable.

>>14332809
>Fully dressed 13B-REW w/transmission: 534.2 pounds.
I really feel the need to call bullshit on that. source?

>>14332947
seems right in the ballpark anon

>>14332809
That's actually amazing, I learned something new today still probably wouldn't swap one and would just mod the rotary, but that's amazing that the LS3 is so damn light.

>>14332955
he is using a unit of measurement so it might sound legit.

>>14332947

>http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=338950

Post number 9. First pic is a Miata engine (Without transmission I think), second is the 13B-REW.

It's using a crane scale, not a corner weight scale like >>14332827 so again, calibration error and all that.

>>14332809
>Fully dressed Aluminum LS1 w/transmission:
>497.2 pounds
Not unless the trans weighs 40lb

>>14333050
>>14332809

>typing random numbers
>no proof anywhere

>>14333043
i was expecting near 500 even honestly.
Also don't believe the LS is 497 with gearbox,I've seen figures of 450lb engine only being quoted

>>14333061
GM themselves quoted the weight of the LS1 as 457lb.
Feel free to do your own googling.

Also let's not forget that some of these people are probably quoting "fully dressed" numbers with an aftermarket flywheel, which can account for at least 10 pounds even for a street flywheel.

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v8 swap fags btfo

>>14333192
except not really lmao

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>>14333207

>>14333207
>fastest rx7 are rotary powered
>ls engines are pigfat as fuck
>not btfo

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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wgp0rYp130U

Listen to the anemic LS wheeze at it struggles to keep up with dorito at 2:00 kek

>>14332676
I get that this is a troll thread, but a V8 is way different from a rotary in so many aspects it's not really fair to compare them except for the fact that people put both of them in these types of cars.

>>14332676
[revving intensifies]

>>14332679
for fuck's sake

>>14332767
/r9k/ is leaking again

>>14332827

That number is pretty close if not spot on based on the LSx weights I've seen on a shipping pallet. That engine there even has the ECU, engine wiring loom, MAF sensor, and accessories (including an A/C compressor).

Just for reference, a T56 weighs about 135 lbs dry with the LS1 bellhousing. The stock clutch and pressure plate of the engine in the picture is 31 lbs. So the LS1 in that pic is around 443 lbs which again is close to what I've seen in the real world. Don't forget it has an A/C compressor too that weighs around 15 lbs or about the weight of a nice set of long tube headers.

>>14333338

Slight correction:

The stock LS1 clutch and pressure plate is 31 lbs. The flywheel is usually 25.5 lbs, but sometimes a bit heavier depending on the application. That's 53 lbs total. So 421 lbs for the engine consistent with the 420-425 lbs I've seen before.

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is this rob dahm's 4 rotor
>is this rob dahm's 4 rotor

how many rotors do you guys think would fit into an e30 safely with a single turbo?

>>14333242
nice b8 m8

>>14333431
swap a 13b from an FC

you could prob fit a 20b but those are expensive

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>>14332676
V8
>fairly inexpensive
>widely available
>gigantic aftermarket
>very easy to work on/ have other people work on
>lot's of performance/dollar
>reliable
>simple maintenance

rotary(custom)
>expensive
>niche market
>hard to find/need to be custom built
>small aftermarket presence compared to the V8
>possibly easier to work on yourself/ but a specialty shop may e required if you aren't going to do the work
>poor performance/dollar
>not as robust/reliable compared to the V8
>complicated maintanance

>>14333490
>pulling things out my ass: the post

my favorite one was
>>small aftermarket presence compared to the V8

kek ameridumbs

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>>14333500
>my favorite one was
>>>small aftermarket presence compared to the V8
the v8 has been around for way longer, and has more variants than the wankle, there is naturally a larger aftermarket

>>14332809
Your numbers are far from correct
Get the fuck out

Ls1 with trans is near 600lb

>>14333756
if you count "there is the same part just several times" then yes

literally anything you can get for a v8 exist for its equivalence in the rotary, even custom made engines

>>14333490
>need to be custom built
Honestly, a normal rebuild without any modifications like porting really isn't that expensive

>>14333490
> rotary
> complicated maintenance
Oh yeah changing my oil and spark plugs is SOOOO HARD
I wish I had to do timing chain adjustments on a dohc audi v8 instead, would he so much easier

>>14333490
>>complicated maintanance

That's one way to tell us all that you don't know anything about cars.

>>14333105
The ls isn't aluminum stock, he meant replacing the block with an aluminum one.

>>14333865
wat?

>>14333880
The engine block on a stock ls is not aluminum, whereas the one he was talking about when he said "fully dressed all aluminum ls" has had its block replaced with an aluminum block.

>>14333915
That's wrong though, the LS1, LS6, LS2 and LS3 are all aluminum blocks.

>>14333915

All production LSx engines have cast aluminum blocks. GM Performance offers a factory aftermarket LSX block that is cast iron. Maybe you are thinking of the Vortec GM engines used in trucks and SUVs that often have cast iron blocks but are based on LSx architecture.

>>14333105

It's worth pointing out that the 457 lb figure and similar figures I've seen from GM include the factory flywheel which is close to 25 or 30 lbs. Even the factory flex plate for autos is excessive.

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>>14332703
4r twin turbo shits on ls1
>mfw you're dumb

>>14333945
>include the factory flywheel
so?

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>>14333490
Is this fag serious?

>>14332676
>dat heat

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>b-but its just acouple lbs lighter (its not)
>forgetting the newer engine mounts and chassis braces to cope up with the added weight and torque

>>14333970

Most of the engine weights I see for other engines don't include a flywheel or flexplate. The weight for production flywheels varies a huge amount. The weight for performance flywheels that most people are going to use doesn't usually vary too much. For instance you might run an 11 lb flywheel on a Honda 4 cylinder and ran a 13 lb flywheel on an LSx. If both engines are weighed with flywheels then fine, but usually I see engine weights listed without flywheel/flexplate or exhaust header(s)/manifold(s). Also the ~30 lb LS1 flywheel was not the only version offered even on that particular engine in any given application or across other LS engines. If anything the lightest LS1 production flywheel should be used. Either way, a fully dressed LSx engine with long tube headers and a much more typical 15 lb flywheel is right around 420-425 lbs. That's everything. ECU, engine wiring loom, accessories with accessory drive and son on. I won't even entertain anything to the contrary without a serious amount of documentation. I've scaled too many of the engine on pallets for shipping to consider almost any number posted on the Internet.

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>>14333990
>thinking you need fucktons of bracing to cope with the weight and torque of an lsx

>>14334021
Muh flywheel!!

Meanwhile most weights for a "fully dressed" 13b thrown around include the radiator

>>14334044
because rotary is so inefficient they even run hot when you're weighing them

>>14334021
> no no the weight given by gm is wrong and I refuse to entertain anything that aint a number I made up !
...

>>14333050
>>14333061
Dry weight on a tremec t 56 trans is 135 pounds.

>>14334071
>Tremec
GTFO Pussy

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>there are people on this board who would rather have some lazy piece of GM shit than this beast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUtloW6OYIQ

>>14334044

All I'm saying is make a fair comparison. Does the 13b have a flywheel. Okay, included the lightest one offered on the particular engine from the factory. Same for the LS1. Does it not have a flywheel? Okay don't include for either. Including radiators is wholly silly since different applications have different styles, needs, and placements.

>>14334057

That 609 lbs is very accurate. You have the burden of proof to prove it isn't. Why? Because I say you do. Believe whatever you want though.

>>14332827

609 lbs LS1 complete with T56.

T56 with LS1 bellhousing is 135 lbs dry. You can get that number from any place that sells the trans.

LS1 clutch, pressure plate, and flywheel is 54 lbs. You can again find that at any parts store that sells them, over on LSx Forums with pictures on scales.

A/C compressor is 15 lbs (remove that only if the comparison engine doesn't have A/C as well) I'm never going to run A/C so never going to include this number.

So about 405 without A/C, flywheel, or exhaust headers.

Weight of stainless long tube headers for LS1. 12-15 lbs depending on manufacturer.

So 420 lbs with a set of long tubes.

Want to add a flywheel? Pick you application then. You can go as little as 9-11 lbs or as high as 25-30 lbs.

>>14334086
The GM piece of shit will be a lot more reliable and cost me WAY less.

>>14334086
I thought the best part about rotaries was leaving them NA. the moment you add boost like an RB or 2J/1J you shorten the engine's life severely if i'm not mistaken.

>>14334149
>the moment you add boost like an RB or 2J/1J you shorten the engine's life severely if i'm not mistaken.
Not much unless you go crazy with boost and a pport

single turbo conversion is the way to go to be honest, much more simple, easier to cool and realiable

>>14334130
>>14334149
rotaries aren't for poorfags

>>14334109
You think other engines arent weighed with a flywheel when talking fully dressed engkne+trans weight? You're going full autist over trying to save 10lb
How about a 13brew with the heavy as fuck stock manifolds and piping replaced with lighter alternatives?

Stop crying about the fucking flywheel holy fuck

>>14332803
you can make more than that with a turbo kit

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>>14332676
is this the shitposting thread?

that thing:
>sips a gallon a second
>can run it once at the trach before it blows up
>cost about 40,000 dollars

Ls1

>behaves like a normal engine
>reliable
>800 bucks

Put n/a for n/a and turbo for turbo v8s are going to kill rotaries

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>>14332676
>mfw you find out you can put multiple rotors

How much power do you gain with each one? I'm so unfamiliar with rotor applications.

>>14334518
>500 and an afternoon

>>14334566
It depends
After 3 things get fucky

v8 swaps compete because simplicity and reliability.

anyone with a haynes manual and some basic harbor freight tools can install a junkyard carburated v8 in an afternoon and have a working car.

>>14332767
>so.. Not the engine he's holding..
>making the entire statement irrelevant
it's virtually the same engine. as in, that block can be made into a p-port version, and is the starting point for p-port builds. and no, the statement isn't irrelevant, because a peripheral port does not add a significant amount of weight to a 13b. glad we could clear that up.

>>14334582
We've gone up to 12 already.
As long as you have the money anything's possible

>>14334615
I hate you

>>14334615
> people actually believe this

>>14334627
>people actually don't believe this
ftfy

>>14334640
Daily reminder a sbc has never ever won 24 h of Le mans but a 900hp rotary has and it's more reliable than any gm performance engine

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>12 apex seals

>>14334623
calm down son, your going to blow an apex seal.

>>14334627
believe it? i have done it. If i can do it on a sunday on a gravel driveway drinking beer with my friends putting a new engine in a truck before dinner is done anyone can do it.

>>14334657
Still less points of failure than the 16 valves in an ls7

>>14334651
http://autoweek.com/article/24-hours-le-mans/chevrolet-corvette-add-growing-24-hours-le-mans-legacy-gte-pro-win
>won a class against ferraris and porsches
>small block chevys have gone one million miles no problem

>rx8 drinks oil new
>smells like oil every time it races
>mpg of v8 car, hp of a Honda

You rotary guys are delusional.

>>14334673
> replacing engine in your truck is the same as swapping a v8 into a small Jap car
Roflmao inbred americunts never fail to impress me

>>14334685
> gte victory is same as outright le mans victory
> gm literally cannot even compete in lmp bevause they can't make a car
Roflmao you inbred americunts never fail to impress me

Time to trigget ls cucks

>ls7 drops valves and is subject of class action lawsuit
> ls1 spins bearings and bends pushrods
> lt4 throws rods with single digit mileage and overheats within minutes on the track
Meanwhile. ..
> rx7 is the most successful car in history of imsa, countless Daytona 24h wins
> dominated le mans so hard rotary was banned forever
> dominated every endurance series it was entered in for almost half a century
> an engine of choice among light aircraft enthusiast because of God tier bullet proof reliability when not subjected to monotony of daily driving


Bbbut the 350 in muh uncle billy bobs chebby truck been running for a millun miles without no oil change a duur

>>14334448
Lel, he forgot to mention the added oil cost and engine rebuilds

>>14334651
>>14334685
>>14334723

What does racing heritage have to do with engine-swaps? which is what i thought this thread was initially about.
>>14332676
>How can V8 swaps compete?

>inb4 "he mad!!1!"

>>14332676
have fun giving people blowies for apex seals

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>>14332750
lmao
>>14334684
>16 valve V8s

>>14334711
3 wires, 2 engine mounts, 2 transmission mounts, 1 fuel line, 2 radiator lines.

its not fucking hard.

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v8 crybabies btfo

>>14335086
Gusse which engines don't explode when you engine brake?

>>14335192
the one without the lawsuit againts it
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2015/10/c7-corvette-z06-and-c6-427-owners-file-class-action-lawsuit-against-general-motors/

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>>14335192
Thr one that has its place cemented in endurance racing history?

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>>14335232
so, a v8.

>>14335319
>nascar
>endurance

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>tfw like rotary
>tfw also like V8
>mfw this thread

>>14335438

It sort of is in its own way considering most races are 400-600 miles long and some of the shortest endurance races only cover 1000 miles split over 3 drivers. I can completely understand if you don't like NASCAR. That's fine. But it is excruciating to run a car for 400-600 miles at high speeds with several other cars inches apart on all sides. Most drivers have to take IV fluids before the race and chug water just to stay hydrated. People always ask if drivers just pee their pants? Most don't because they are too dehydrated.