What is the best piston layout and why is it literally V10?
Probably the best sounding V10 on earth in my opinion.
Straight six is best, look at every semi truck ever if you need proof.
although you clearly know what you are talking about i must disagree.
the idiotic, unbalanced, uneconomical and simply unlogical v10 has always baffled me.
untill somebody actually starts to argue that it is has functional purpose between v8 or v12. then you take it too far.
Either V12 (because perfect balance) or V8 (because nice packaging with good balance). V10 has the drawbacks of both: a long square to package it in, yet no perfect internal balance.
That's just because we use a decimal system. When using an octal or septal system, everything would be different.
Straight six a shit. Impossible to pack transversely (inb4 retarded Volvo engineers that took 2 decades to do so), and in longitudinal layout, it packages as well as a V12.
Oh, so you enoy making a massive suspension compromise? Good for you.
>equal bore and stroke
>not wanting an oversquare engine for mad rpm's and low piston speeds
V6 has shittier balance. Also, worst sound. For every good sounding V6, you can usually name a few good sounding inline sixes. Actually, only good sounding V6 is the Busso, and that's probably because it's a semi-hemi design.
Straight six a shit. Retardedly long, which means your center of gravity is usually either ahead of the axle(where you don't want it), or the length necessitates a longer wheelbase(which is bad, m'kay?).
Now posting in the correct thread
Its not a problem in modern engines at all. How often do you hear stories of GTR engines shaking themselves to bits?
How often do you hear people like Mercedes HPP complain about the balance of the F1 V6? Come on, it means shit these days.
V6 is great for consumer applications. Smaller than a V8, can produce sufficient power with turbo charging and still keeping the packaging size down, they're more efficient that V8s and thus help keep emissions down when more and more stringent emissions laws are being pushed.
I love V10s, I love V12s even more, but I would be kidding myself if I thought the V6 wasn't a great engine for modern sports cars
>That's just because we use a decimal system.
And that is just because we have 10 fingers
>When using an octal or septal system, everything would be different.
Everything would be the same, we would just interpret it a bit different. If we had 8 fingers base 8 would be perfectly natural to us and counting by 10s would be less easy.
I wonder what out number system would be like if we were asymmetric al, say 3 fingers on one hand and 6 on the other.
>ameribubblers dont know about my metric system
Great sound, and available in great cars, but sadly, it packages horribly (second only to inline six), and doesn't offer any advantages anymore in a world where a 350hp inline four turbo is the norm.
Only companies that use flat sixes are Subaru and Porsche. Both can't use double wishbone suspension, nevermind a modern multilink, because of the added width of the boxer engine. They're stuck with MacPherson struts that have a shitty camber curve. All in all, you can definetely say boxer engines require suspension compromise on road cars.
Porsche doesn't use multilink in the 911 and Cayman. They use MacPherson struts at the front because they need the added frunk space, and a gimped multilink-ish strut at the rear, instead of proper multilink + shock combo. The only reason it isn't a true MacPherson strut is that they have seperate control arms down low for some added camber, but it's still a heavy compromise. Also, most of the early ones were still Macpherson+torsion bar, and it took several track increases over the years to get enough space for said gimped multilink+strut combo.
Subaru has been using them for cost, packaging, and the fact that that boxer engine is goddamned wide. Designing a global production car around rally spec is stupid. They could just use double wishbones on the road, and then adapt MacPhersons for rally use, just like Mitsu did. They just can't - packaging a boxer and true double wishbones doesn't work that way. If they could, they would. As would Porsche.
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ehhhh, what's your definition of "road car"
>They could just use double wishbones on the road, and then adapt MacPhersons for rally use, just like Mitsu did.
Aren't Group A cars suspension part of the homologation package? It'd have to be the same as the road car.
Which doesn't explain why the GT3 RSR now has double wishbone in the front.
Not him, but you're kind of right. Although while Mitsubishi stuck with the Group A formula into the '00s, Subaru hasn't competed a Group A car for almost 20 years. So macpherson strut being fitted for homologation purposes really doesn't fly.
>not using double wishbones at the rear
>and the fact that that boxer engine is goddamned wide
no it isnt, its not any wider than a transverve inline 4 or 5, a subaru EJ is like 32.5 inches wide, a honda k20 plus transmission is like 30 inches
2 inches is nothing and several K powered cars have double wihsbones at the front
>Designing a global production car around rally spec is stupid.
well they have to use production spec parts in Group N and other entry level leagues
> just like Mitsu did.
lan evos have macphersons and as a matter of fact the 4g63 engine is like 22 inches, add the transmission and its wasily close to 32 inches
>As would Porsche.
but porsche has double wishbones
Because it's two straight-fives and straight-fives are based.
>And I can only do that transversely?
>impossible to centralise mass even in RWD form
If you needed me to spell it out completely, there you go.
>inb4 moving goalposts
Regardless, I don't see how being impossible to pack transversely would be a good thing...
Some of the best powerhouse motors known are straight 6s. Specifically the 2j and rb series engines. Where they shine is big power, the applications they're used in really dont require "centralised" mass.
And if "I need to spell it out for you" I was implying front wheel drive, or traverse layout sucks.
That's all well and good, if making peak numbers and straight line acceleration is your goal (which VQ and VR V6s are achieving the same performance these days anyway).
I know what you're saying about transverse layouts, however the shorter option is still a better option for centralising mass in a RWD application...unless you only wish to go in straight lines.
My point is your original comment of >straight six a shit
Isn't merited. The 2j , although extremely overused, is a fucking monster especially for a stock engine. And the vr and vq come nowhere close to it in stock form. Although it's main use is really only for speed and power I'd assume as an auto enthusiasts board we can appreciate that
>straight six a shit
Sorry for the confusion, that wasn't my quote. I picked up from a previous conversation.
I will argue the VR does come close, and eclipses the 2JZ in stock form however.
If V10 is such a great configuration why wasn't it used for aero engines?
V12 is the true master race.
Sorry, by stock form I was referring to stock block/ internals. On boost the 2j can handle some Rediculous power with factory internals. Obviously new motors will kick it's n/a power output as its reslly getting old now.
>engines designed with turbos in mind dont make any power any
besides, OS giken 3.2 liter L series makes 400ish hp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez_c1OW6-cc
>2JZs can handle up to ~8000hp
Some of the vintage luxury land barges run I8 or v16. They're so smooth that you forget the engine is running. One day I'm going to weld a pair of small blocks together and build my own.
The extra smoothness is nice, but the stress on a really long crankshaft like that can damage the engine.
Straight 8's are still top tier though. There was a time when they were the premier racing engine.
>he doesnt have most of his electricity covered by nuclear energy
stay third world
>not wanting a cute 400hp inline 3 engine to carry around all day and cuddle with in bed after a stressful day of work