>So reliable its a meme
>Used in so many cars finding any parts is easy and relatively cheap
>Even then, new parts are pretty cheap as well
>Comes with a supercharger installed, eliminating the need to spend $2k on FI kits
>Makes a modest 240hp on the Series 2. Series 3 bumps it up to 260hp
>HUGE aftermarket. Said parts are cheap too
>Cars it comes with are cheap and plentiful; often having niceties like a sunroof, leather, etc.
>Dat whine https://youtu.be/OfMlIiRxyPY?t=8s
Can the V6 in your shitbox join the ranks of god-tier with the 3800 /o/?
>needs a supercharger to break 200hp
allow me to introduce you to 255hp N/A introduced in 2001...
The BMW S54 (and M54) engines are the best six cylinder engines ever made. Fuck the V.
>will last until the end of time
>available TRD supercharger
The V6 Altimas are stupid fast, like the V6 Camrys. Was driving home the other night, some nig in a V6 Altima was just blowing us all off. Fuckin thing accelerated like a Tesla, and it was so quiet doing it.
253hp, introduced in 1999. Brought to you by the Chrysler Corporation.
>and forced induction
>still less than 250 hp
Were the GM engineers actually trying to make it shitty? I'm being serious here. I imagine it absolute must be seriously detuned from the factory. There's no way a (kind of) modern engine can have cylinder heads that inefficient.
>72 degree 3 litre aluminum block and head V6
>240 bhp @ 3600 rpm
>455 ft·lb @ 1600 rpm
>40+ mpg in a 5000 lbs AWD S class
I'm actually considering swapping a 3800 into my NA Miata eventually.
The only guy I've ever seen with that swap on the entire internets never got back to me with details on how he did it though.
Enjoy your overbored oil burning VQ30. There's a reason the race cars use VQ30s and not VQ35s.
The 3800 swap is most likely cheaper and easier since tons of base model F-bodies have them with a manual transmission and it fits the same mounts as an LS, which is a really common swap as it is.
Theoretically a 3800 swap would be the same as a LS swap but without having to trim the transmission tunnel or move the radiator since the T5 is smaller than the T56 and the 3800 is several inches shorter than the LS.
>tfw own a 4th gen 3800 Firebird
>can't just slap supercharger on it because lol it's 90s GM, why the fuck would they make a RWD version, everybody knows RWD is for stupid motherfuckers
>It's more than double the stock horsepower
This is nice
>of the 1.6 and a ton more torque, especially at low RPM.
That's great news if you intend on towing a trailer. Kind of irrelevant for such a car.
wow what the fuck I always thought the Miata being comically underpowered was just a meme. Even then, why not get a truck LS V8? I imagine they would be much more expensive but they would sound a million times better, be much faster, have a ridiculous aftermarket and they're just as reliable
>torque doesn't matter
I does, at a relevant rpm range. For a sub 1000kg car, such low end torque is irrelevant.
>i only drive at 5k+ RPM all day
Funnily enough, our car is a CL9 Accord Euro 6spd manual, and I don't need to rev beyond 2500rpm for DD duties as it has more than enough buttery smooth torque down low enough.
But then I'm not towing car trailers with it either.
Even with the iron block the 3800 is lighter than the LS and the shorter block means less mass forward which affects the car's balance less than the LS.
3800 requires a lot less fabrication than the LS as well, since the transmission tunnel won't need to be cut and the radiator won't need to be moved.
>i literally wish to have a slower car
more torque is the difference between downshifting or not when acceleration is needed. for instance I drive my car in sixth gear anytime i'm at 40 or above and never downshift, even when passing. more torque=less downshift. honda drivers just don't understand this i don't blame you personally but most would not agree with your stance.
It's not that simple. Look it up if you're interested. The few people that have managed to do it say it's not worth it and regret not just LS swapping in the first place
According to wikipedia it only makes 230HP and they're not easy to find and can get pretty expensive. Just not worth it. Would have been so much easier to just be able to top end swap the FWD SC without any custom welding job and/or extensive firewall mutilation. Oh well, I'm saving up to get a Trans Am anyway
Thats funny considering I drive an M Roadster. Maybe you just fear power. Or maybe its the fact you drive appliance cars. Guess we'll never know. But do keep attempting to rationalize being slower.
Exactly. There isn't even a bolt on intake manifold available. If you want better flowing heads, you can't just buy a new set from a reputable brand, you have to send your old ones to get a porting job and they're doomed to crack sooner or later. Lots of valvetrain options but that's about it
The aftermarket isn't really important, since just by doing the swap you're already getting more horsepower than most turbo kits on the 1.6 would get. You really don't need to add too much more beyond a more performance oriented exhaust.
The 3800 was never meant to be a performance engine anyway. GM figured people who bought an entry level F-body only wanted reliability, decent torque and a cool looking car but look at the sales. At first I wanted to modify it but the more I read about mods the less it seemed like it was worth it. I'm getting Corvette wheels and wider tires this spring, maybe some stiffer swaybars but then I'm done, definitely not wasting my time and money with this engine. Doesn't mean you can't enjoy the 3800 for what it is tho
The ls1 is pretty light actually
208kg vs what 170kg for the 3800 s/c
So yeah your argument is bunk when the weight difference is 40kg, whats that 1/4th of a merrifat or 1/2 a tank of fuel
thats why every 3800 is been junked here in aus and swapped for ls's
fuck it the best V6 i owned is the VQ35DE i my Maxima 265 HP stock, after getting rid of my old shitheap with Chryslers 2.7l its A whole other world, only changed its oil, 124k on the clock still pulls.
I didn't pull these numbers out of my ass. GM rated the 3800 on F-bodies at 205HP. Probably at the flywheel with a lot of wishful thinking but still, 205HP. Was your buddy's car in good shape?
The LS is 460lbs. The T56 is another 125lbs. The 3800 is 392lbs and the T5 is 75lbs.
With the transmissions, the 3800 is nearly 120lbs lighter. That's a big difference in a car that only weighs 2200lbs stock.
For comparison, the 1.6 B6ZE is around 320lbs plus another 80 for the transmission for about 400lbs total.
It's not just about power with Miatas. The weight distribution is important too. Being both significantly heavier and further forward in the engine bay, the LS swap shifts the distribution forward a lot more than the lighter and shorter 3800 would.
The Miata can only really harness so much power to begin with anyway.
Honda's J engines are pretty good
>SOHC + VTEC
>weakest iteration from 1998 produces 200hp/190ft-lb, current versions are 270-300hp
>Even the early ones will do 30mpg on highway
>deliver max torque from under 2500rpm onwards to rev-limit
>works at low or high rpm and revs easily
I think they're pretty underrated engines, especially since they're not for a sports car
These things should have the same reputation as the RB26. Its silly how much power can be extracted from them. Especially because the cars they were put in could deal with the power. That fool with the 1100HP Z32 uses a stock transmission and rear end, and they haven't failed while his engine has blown multiple times.
Thats a pretty silly choice. There's a lot more engines that would work better in a Miata. 4-6 cylinder Jap stuff or massive American ones would all do whatever job you're aiming for better then a Buick 3800.
The guy is making this engine output over three times stock power, nearly four. The fact that it has only blown two or three times is pretty good. I bet the RB's that make that power are all owned by tuning shops that can afford to rebuild them on tight schedules to keep them as demo cars.
From what I've heard they are pretty solid engines. They can take 500HP as a daily until you feel like selling it, and 600+ if you maintain it as a hobby. Over that, you're into "twice as bright, half as long" territory, which is also true of the RB. But they're totally capable of over a thousand on a stock block, which is pretty impressive for a 90's Japanese V6.
Thats a weird way of spelling 4.0l Intec/Barra and AMC 4.0l EFI
jesus thats nuts hahah as if anyone would daily anything over 700hp on the street.
Be cool to go to a track and turn up the boost tho
The point is that for the most part an LS swap kit would work for the 3800, with the 3800 getting the benefit of being cheaper, lighter, and easier to find than the LS.
I don't know about the other V6s that people like to swap in, but I bet that they're a lot harder to source than something I can find in every base model Camaro or Firebird made after 1995.
Im planning on buying a Z32 or Z31 soon, and using a variable boost controller so I have just enough to beat an M4 on the street, but enough to demolish anything on a track day. Gonna need more money to afford anything that doesn't already have a shitload of miles on it, so it doesn't blow up on me.
Thats the thing though: even an iron block Vortec would be a better choice. Supercharged 3800's are getting fairly rare, so it'd probably cost as much to just pull a truck engine. Yeah, the weight distribution would be ruined, but it would already be pretty fucked if you're putting in an iron six cylinder with a supercharger bolted on top, so it wouldn't make that much of a difference.
Thats not really a great boost in performance to counterbalance the increased weight. The first gen NA engines made what, 200HP? Plus that had a high compression, so there isn't much room for increased power on the cheap from forced induction.You could probably ghetto rig one of the superchargers to it though. I've seen Bimmers and otherwise use the M62 and M90 on engines they were never intended to be on to great effect.
I'm not well versed in four cylinder Jap engines in Miatas, but maybe a Nissan KA or Honda F20 would be better, because it wouldn't fuck up the driving dynamics as much? Though I think those would be much more expensive, as they're in higher demand.
The bone stock 3800 II had about 205hp. Better air flow would probably increase that quite a bit.
The whole point here is the cheapest, simplest swap possible for the most gain. Doubling the horsepower and increasing the torque by 130% for the cost of a beat to shit F-body that can be parted out to recover most of the cost and 60lbs is a pretty good deal.
Thats pretty solid, actually. I have no idea how much you can make with the standard bolt-on upgrade list you'd do if it was a Chevy V8, but if you do decide to do this, please post pics and dynos. I am quite interested.
If nothing else, having a significantly smaller engine block will make it a hell of a lot easier to turbo a 3800 than an LS, although turbo LS Miatas have been done.
They have to put the turbo under the trunk in that case.
Who here /3800enthusiast/ ?
jesus christ i know i'm a hypocrite because i ride a sportbike but at some point stability control, airbags, and a decent crash test rating become a must have. that miata is absolutely insane.
You spelt Barra wrong kiddo
>Comes with a supercharger installed
Not my grandmas Buick Lacrosse.
Does go for weeks with a quart of oil and a broken thermostat.
Exactly! Local guy is running a stock rear on his with almost 900whp but he put a three speed auto tranny in it. The trans can be picky but all depends how you drive it, he kept blowing them because he was power shifting.
Yeah as long as they are built right by someone who knows these engines ( Pitstop, IPP, Z1 etc) they can handle a beating, the stage 6 IPP is rated for 1500whp.
Trying to figure how much I want to rebuild my Z, I was thinking 700whp goal but the build I made would have me in the 800whp area. I guess I can always change the boost on the street and bump it on the strip.
No love for GM's LFX line? they are not too bad, 3.6 liters over 300 hp (335 in its latest iteration), nice little V-six, spins out to 7k (I'm Coming from old SBC so this is pretty okay in my book) not a bad torque curve either (not great but not bad) I'm pretty sure I have seen engine and transmission packages out of wrecked Camaros go up on ebay for under 3k. Not a bad deal.
3.3 Liter Lamda, Wouldn't call it God-Tier, But it is reliable and you can beat on it.
Sound Clip- http://vocaroo.com/i/s1IxvGHBjfzy
>yfw when you see the shock tower and notice how far forward that engine is in relation with the front axle
series 3 supercharged running @ 130K miles been in 2 hard front end wrecks enough to replace the whole core support/frame horn area. this engine has taken its fair share of abuse o the road. its been overheated 8 times ( electrical issues caused by the wrecks aswell as failed waterpump) an its still running strong on all its factory gaskets despite having a horrible intake gasket stigma.
>260 HP from a V6
Wow so amazing. A chrysler T&C people carrier produces more horsepower from it's NA V6.
Now this is a REAL V6 right here you fucking mongoloids. 760 BHP.
Is it the front or rear valve cover? If it's the front you should be able to replace the valve cover gasket yourself in an afternoon. There was a good video on it from scotty kilmer but I can't seem to find it anymore.
It's the front, but i have neither the tools nor the knowhow to go about it.
Dead, pic is its final resting place before I sold it for a regrettably low price
So I bought a volvo and its transmission died too
So I switched to manual memebox and haven't had much trouble other than the master cylinder leaking.
"Both the Syclone and Typhoon trucks featured a Mitsubishi TD06-17C 8 cm2 turbocharger and Garrett water/air intercooler attached to a 4.3 L LB4 V6 engine with unique pistons, main caps, head gaskets, intake manifolds, fuel system, exhaust manifolds, and a 48mm twin bore throttle body from the 5.7 L GM Small-Block engine."
OP here, I think some of you are missing the point. To achieve a true spot in the god-tier list, the engine should:
>Be easy/cheap to fix and maintain, due to common spare parts
>Have a pretty decent aftermarket going for it
>Make a decent starting amount of hp
>Be attached to a car most people can afford at one point in their lives
A god-tier V6 should not be all about max hp. A V6 is DD stuff, and should be approached as such first. Alot of people with pepped up 3800's DD them, because they are attached to a simple sedan and having a good, albeit powerful, DD that you can live with everyday is most important. Racing engines don't matter here, because the majority of people don't DD cars they would go into.
Fit the bill so far, keep going.
Jesus fuck at least clean your engine. That shit looks like trash.
Maybe for the same reason you might swear by rotaries?
>not even that reliable
>bad gas mileage
>not uncommon for people to swap everything BUT a rotary in a rotary powered car
>muh endurance racing
>dey reliable if you aren't retard
Don't like 3800 engines but if aussies like them like you say they do it might be for a reason.
Just my $00.2
>also inb4 dey like it cuz dey retard
mainly poorfags like it, that said i dont mind the factory supercharged series 2/3 but the BOG stock 3800 n/a is fucking SLOW
Wouldnt mind blowing up a 3800 with alot of boost
would be fun
dont worry its just as bad as the 4.0l intec!
>Power Steering leaks
>A/C fucking sucks
>Water pump dies bang on 180k+
>Top end shits itself around 200k
>Bottom end piston rings 250k+ (uses/burns oil)
>timing cover gaskit (common problem)
>shit stock CAI design (restricts air into and out of the air box)
>Uses more fuel on average than a ls1 v8 and a turbo barra combined
>Shitty gearbox with retarded shift points
>Extention shits trans fluid outside the driveshaft
>bad linkage design
But WAIT theres more!
>Stock E to AU to BA series brakes warp front rotors, eat pads and calipers stick on
>Rear suspention a shit
>front roll bar mounts crack
>front swaybar links snap
>rear swaybay snaps
>front swaybar snaps
>front ball joints snap
>rear ball joints snap
>Driveshaft loves to snap in half over 190km/h
>limiter of 175km/h because of said issues^
>Retarded design decisions on the engine, gearbox (no dipstick in 199x-2003+ wtf?)
>Engine oil pressure a shit
>Engine eats oil even if rebuild NEW
>electrics a shit
>handbrake doesnt work AT ALL and if it feels like it might stop one wheel from turning a little but WITH A HORRIFIC NOISE
>Nice motor overall but has a horrible factory tune so unless your WOT the car accelerates slower that a i4 with a gay niggers ass up the exhaust pipe
I aint even done yet hold on
>Engine rebuild still has all the same issues as before as i said its a nice engine with retarded issues
>Stock cooling system is shit even with aftermarket 3 core radiator it will still overheat even with a auto trans cooler bypass
>Manual is the worst i have ever seen they stuck a factory T5 behind a fairly powerful (for the time) motor and it loves to shit itself because ford stuck a shit clutch in it, grenades itself and then is a pos in general.
>Rear diff LSD loves to explode
>Rear diff open loves to explode (lol and the au diff was meant to be reliable)?
>Rear IRS optional for AU series even though vt/vx had it standard (What ford did you want people to pay extra for standard stuff? Get fucked it was standard in the B series a year after the au3 you cunts)
>Horrible designed rear suspention that had no grip if non irs and from the fucking 70's semi trailing link
>Retarded dashboard and seat arragement means uncomfitable driving position
>All your interior lights and fittings will break
>all your everything will break
>mfw this happened on 2 falcons ive had for under 5 years
>mfw the 2nd one that isnt even mine is having the same siht happen again (thank fuck it isnt mine otherwise i'd burn it to the ground)
Its funny because as much as its a horrible pos its 'reliable' in a sense it wont strand you andwhere but make you unhappy enough to not want to drive it anymore plus its hideously ugly
I loved the turbo GNX/T-types myself. pretty good 3800 cars.