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86/BRZ/FRS? help
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I am going to get my first car and am leaning toward any of these cars. I'm thinking manual BRZ Limited 2013 or FRS equivalent. Discuss/Tell me why they suck
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>>14233242
Get one they're cool
>>
>first car
Your first car is a learning experience you'll look back on and say "wow, I wish I had known _____ and _______ and _____. Personally I'd feel bad about subjecting a newer car to the mistakes most new drivers are going to make. I'd save money and buy something cheaper instead.
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>12.5:1 cr
>160hp
>2800lbs
>>
They're an econobox stuffed into a sporty looking body. Get one if you want to look like a car person but don't have the cash/time/maintenance skills to keep an actual sports car on the road.
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Get a used stick corolla for 6 months and save Money so you don't wreck an OK car and then get whatever you can afford. I love my brz though.
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>>14233273
>160hp
U wot m8
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>>14233286
>all sports cars are old and expensive
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>>14233273

they make like 197hp
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>>14233295
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>>14233286
i have 0 maintenance skills, 0 stick driving skills

i'm good enough to not stall out at all though. i've had a bit of practice. stress on the car with someone of my skillset should be minimal right?
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I just bought a 2k16 outback.
Fuck the haters op if you want it buy it. There just mad they can't afford something nice. While depreciation sucks I went new becouse I had a really shitty experience with my last used car this way I know the oil and everything else is taken care of. Research it if you like it go drive it then buy it. Fuck the haters
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>>14233315
>whp
Thanks for proving me right.
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>>14233317
>haters
If you want to be taken seriously, never use this word.
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>>14233306
>>14233321
>flywheel hp
That would be relevant if OP was going to buy an FRS to pull the engine and use it to power a pottery wheel, but since he intends on driving the car the wheel HP is what matters (160hp)
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>>14233333
M8, you're just backpedaling at this point. Every manufacturer rates at crank hp.
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>>14233316
It's a car that can handle a fair amount of abuse, even for someone relatively new to stick.
>>14233303
For a person who's new to cars most sports/enthusiast cars are a lot of work compared to econobox reliability.
>>
define econobox?
(i know i could easily search)
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>>14233338
nah 160whp is about 180 at the crank.
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>>14233338
Backpedaling from what? When you step on the gas pedal of an FRS/BRZ the most power you can possibly put down is 160hp. Since it's a strung out 4 banger in reality you'll actually put down about 80 hp in 95% of your street driving, but that's a different issue.
>>
so what im getting from this so far is
this car is the perfect, new,
entry level sports car.

now which one should i get
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>>14233355
Depends if it was an auto or manual on the dyno really. 10 percent loss is super optimistic, 15 or 20 percent is more so the standard for manual and auto, respectively. And considering I've seen numerous 170whp dyno charts from the car, I'd bet money that 160whp chart is from an auto version.
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>>14233259
This. Had enough for one of my dream cars (gti) but wanted to learn manual so I bought a shitty beater hatch and saved the cash til I can drive well enough.
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>>14233350
A car that prizes reliability/fuel economy/safety over performance and driver friendliness.
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>>14233368
You claimed the car had 160hp. It has 200. Now you're going "well, uh, I meant at the wheels"
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>>14233372
there's plenty of manual dyno runs, 150-165whp is common
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>>14233242
STOP
SHITTING
ON
FWD
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>>14233369

The Toyota 86 isn't sold in America, I'm not sure where you are located. The BRZ is a better daily with softer suspension and climate control etc. The FR-S is a better track car. But this is stuff I've heard, never been in one myself.

I'm going to the scion dealership tonight and test driving an FR-S. I'm torn between the FR-S, the EcoBooost Mustang, and the 370Z vs buying an older WRX or G8.
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>>14233386
Everything I'm finding from tuning shops puts it at 170 wheel give or take maybe 2 hp.
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>>14233385
I don't think anyone had any confusion about my post other than you, whatever makes you feel better though, I don't blame you, I would be mad if I had a 160hp "sports car" too
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>>14233402
thanks for the insight


guys idc about the 160 vs 180hp crap
I'd probably mod it a little anyway plus
its my first car so it doesnt really matter
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>>14233406
>Heartbreaker meets a guy with a hellcat
>wow man that thing makes like 600 hp
>no it makes 707
>well at the wheel
No. Fucking. Manufacturer. Rates. At. The. Tire.
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>>14233403
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>>14233429
Cool, if I ever switch from actually driving cars to only looking at spec sheets on the internet I'll be sure to note that down
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>>14233445
I'm aware that whp is relevant. However, last I checked, all manufacturers rate their cars at the crank. So just saying "160hp" implies it makes 160 crank, which is false. You can say 160whp, although that would still be off by roughly 10whp.
>>14233432
Actually found a short but interesting read on varying dyno results
http://www.ddperformanceresearch.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=95

Testing an frs and a brz, they found the brz making more power. For whatever reason the ECU had told the FRS to make less. Looking at their processes, this is the result I'd trust.
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>>14233429
thats cuz at the wheel its always a higher number, you dip
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>>14233475
I seriously hope this is bait.
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>>14233445
> instead of looking at spec sheets
> implying that isn't all you do
Kek, refer to your first post itt
>>
>tfw lost thread to spec sheet rage
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>>14233509
Protip : never post ft86, corvette c7, gtr r35, Civix Type R, or AW11 MR2 here.
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>>14233519
>only one fwd car
why does this board hate us?
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>>14233528
Case in point
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>>14233242
Go for it. Sexy girl inside.
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>>14233475

>car makes more power at the wheels than at the crank

How the everloving fuck would that work?
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>>14233519
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>>14233540
Magnets. But don't ask me about dem magnets...
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>>14233499
If you don't understand how a dyno readout and manufacturer provided specs are different you are beyond help

>>14233509
>lost the thread
another "tell me why my decision is right and I'll ignore any differing opinion but I wanted to make a thread anyway" thread, what a terrible loss
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>>14233540
Ask the 918, P1, and LaFerrari
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>>14233587
Manufacturers provide crank hp specs. A dyno measures whp. I don't think *you* understand how they're different. And I think he more meant to ask if there were any truly terrible flaws regardless of specs, like common failures or terrible insurance rates yadda yadda.
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>>14233587

i said "tell me why it sucks"

aka tell me other options if you
want cause i know close to nothing about cars
>>
Get new tires immediately.
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>>14233528
This board doesn't "hate" "you", its that /o/ is a board for car enthusiasts. Here's the thing about "enthusiasts", they're going to talk more about performance geared cars. The majority of performance cars are either RWD or AWD. There isn't an inherent bias against FWD (there are of course the people who constantly shit on FWD, but there are just as many sho shit on RWD). Its just that FF is a layout that is more widely seen in econoboxes or simple commuter cars, and while being something we talk about here, are not usually the main topic of discussion. If you want to point fingers at somebody, blame sports car manufacturers.
1/10 for making me reply. Fuck you
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>>14233273
Yeah... add like 20 to that 160 and you'd have the correct number.
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>>14233933
*40
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>>14233242
>getting my first car
>buying new

how are people this retarded? seriously... how did you get a license? how do you have a roof over your head?
>>
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>>14234536
>op looking at 2013 car
>anon bitches about buying new
>year 2013+3
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>>14234611
Its a 20k car. OP is retarded to buy a 20k car as a first car.
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>>14233779
>Type R Hondas
>Golf GTIs
>Ford ST products

These 3 are more fun than 99% of RWD.

No, your grandpa german sedan isnt an enthusiast car just because its RWD
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>>14234669
>Type R Hondas

You mean any FF car that weighs less than 2600lbs and has double wishbone suspension.
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>>14233631

On /o/ it's best to ignore any trips that aren't LongPostGuy or (if you're in a VIN/maintenance thread) MightyBenz.

The rest are worthless and do nothing but relentlessly shitpost.
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>>14234669
I like how you completely disregarded everything I said. I didn't say that RWD made it an enthusiast car, I'm saying that the designers who are making enthusiast cars are making those RWD.
>FRS
>MR2
>Miata
>240sx
>Corvette
>Camaro
>Supra
>GT-R
>Mustang
>snek
>Focus RS
>Z-Cars
>STI
Look at all these cars designed for "spirited driving" that aren't FWD. I'm not saying that FWD is worse from a performance standpoint, I'm just saying it's more abundant.

All those cars you listed are great, but there are just so many other cars that are appealing to "enthusiasts" that the FWD ones kind of get drowned out.

That said, just because the Type R is great, that doesn't mean your 1993 Civic DX is a sports car.
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>>14234770
Less abundant*
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>>14233242

Get one, it's the most fun you can get for the price.
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>>14233242
OP the car itself is good but the 2013 was the 1st MY and has a bunch of tiny problems. Just thought you should know.
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>>14233273
It's still faster than a catfish camaro.
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>>14233273

Pay 4k for bolt on turbo
Flash ecu
Put new wheels on

Problems solved
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>>14233315
>posting 87 octane dynos
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>>14233273
Honestly didn't expect you to be a bench racer .
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>>14237106
Rated at 200hp @ the crank.

~10-15% drive train loss = 170-180whp

The dyno doesn't seem that off...
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>>14237463
he just hates the 86 for whatever reason
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>>14237106
>supporting a car that doesn't make 100hp/l even on 93 pump (RON+MON/2 for all the autists)
c'mon anon
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I drive my supercharged frs 4-5 times a week to work, errands and such. Pretty fun all around imo
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>>14238020
Also tought myself stick in it, easiest clutch out all I've driven.
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>>14233242
I consider it a more practical, hardtop version of the mx-5
It is great at it
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>>14238020
>supercharged

Sounds fun, but personally I'd be wary of doing something that voids my warranty. I mean, that's like 90% of the reason to get a new car in the first place.
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>>14238059
Eh, it's already paid off. I was at first too but they really need that little extra to make them truly enjoyable.
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>>14238059
You can't void your warranty in the US, however you can be denied warranty claims due to modifications which made OEM parts fail or act in ways not intended from the factory.

There's a bit of a difference.
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>>14238072
I imagine. Nice looking cars and they feel good but they're just not fast from the factory. They aren't slow, they just aren't fast.

>>14238077
Seems like sort of an academic difference, no? I mean, sure you could supercharge it and then your tail lights could go out due to a wiring issue and it won't be a problem, but what if you start having transmission issues due to a factory defect? Couldn't they easily say 'well the extra power from the supercharger is the cause, no warranty coverage' ?

I've never owned a car under warranty so I don't really know, just what I've understood in the past.
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>>14238103
Kind of, it depends on the modification. If you're a vape lord subabro who throws a rod in their EJ257 or whatever, probably not going to be covered under warranty since they were running 'Stage 3' or whatnot.

Common fail points on vehicles are likely to still be covered assuming they are not directly affected by your modifications.
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Since this is your first car I'm assuming you just got your license and are very young, insurance will rape you for such car and you will wreck it trying to rip hektik skids. Get something used and cheap
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>>14236999
>build a near 40k car
>problem solved

Now you have a near 40k car that gets blown the fuck out by built 20k cars.

but its newwww ITS NEWWWWWWWWWW

>muh voided warranty
>muh 5 years of payments
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>>14233259
This, fun car, save it for when you actually know how to drive. New cars as a first car are a huge waste.
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>>14233242
Protip, get a used car as your first car, trust us.

Why they're awesome.
Good power for it's size, good handling, generally fun to drive and a really good platform if you want to try and trick it out. Comfortable and easy to drive as well.

Why they suck:
Everyone, and I mean everyone wants to race you.
Not so much anymore, but when I first got mine people constantly wanted to look at it.
Low on power, this is a subjective argument, but it does a lot of time feel like it's about 20 horses shy of perfect.
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>>14233286
You're funny.
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>>14233369
BRZ
If you want to feel sophisticated and hang out with lesbos and have people constantly not understand how it's not AWD because ALL SUBARUS ARE AWD

FRS
If you don't give a shit
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>>14234669
How's it feel being so wrong?
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>>14239297
This so much
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>>14233317
>haters
Typical 18 yr old subu fanboi.
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>>14238276

Anon up there says he taught himself
stick in it. Pretty much sold at this point.

what's wrong with teaching myself stick in
a new car vs an old car? if i ruin the clutch
I'll just have to spend max of $200 to replace
it, and thats the same with an old car? am i missing something?

by NEW i mean used. just 2012/13/14
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>>14240578
Just ignore them. Buy the car you want and learn stick on it. You might stall a few times, big deal.

It takes like 2-3 days to get comfortable using stick so buying a shit car first is just a huge hassle imo.

Make sure you read guides and watch videos to get a good idea of how to do it and how the mechanical stuff works in the background, it'll help.
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>>14233385
What are you, retarded? Everyone knows it's about 160 to the wheels, on a good day. I've seen some dip as low as 140. It's called drive train lost retard.
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>>14240578
>what's wrong with teaching myself stick in
a new car vs an old car?
Nothing, I taught myself stick in this car but it wasn't my first car and I'd had experience in others.
>I'll just have to spend max of $200 to replace
it, and thats the same with an old car? am i missing something?
Max $200 for replacing a clutch? I want to live where you live.
>by NEW i mean used. just 2012/13/14
What? So do you mean new or used, there's a reason those words exist, use them right.


Protip, if this is indeed your first car, get a used one, doesn't matter what, but get a used one.
>>
If no ones noticed, when people have those "post your car" threads, 90% are 80/90s piles of shit. If you notice those posts about "post your age and what you do" 90% are 15-22 that work at Wendy's or don't even have jobs.

Take what people say here with a grain of salt, no one here drives anything as good as you'd think from how they talk to everyone about everything.
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>>14238130
if you look at most on the warranty infringements any modifications pretty much void them so that's kind of irrelevant
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>>14233242
If you buy a FRZ you are an actual retard and we don't want you around. It's not that you like something different, it is that you have broadcast to the world that you are a fucking idiot and don't even know it.

We aren't a bunch of brand fags saying you bought the wrong car. We look at you and we see a faggot that is trying to buy himself into a lifestyle. You aren't a racer or a sports car enthusiast, you are a fucking poser. Nobody likes posers.
>>
>>14241230
>You're a retard poser for buying a car that checks off all of /o/s approval boxes except one.

Turns well
Not pigfat - only relevant lighter cars are 4C and Miata
Looks good
Can go sideways if you want
RWD
LSD on base model
Costs marginally more than a Corolla
Fun to drive and handles well
Comes in MT

Only downside is a 0-60 in ~6.2s, but who gives a fuck really. It's not slow enough to matter anywhere in the real world. Setting lap times on Track is about skill and tuning. Only scenario where it fucking matters in the slightest is if you decide to street race in a straight with a 86 but then you're a retard so who cares.

One fucking aspect of the car that's not even bad, but not great, and autists that hate cars act like the faggots they are. It's the price of a Corolla dafuq more u want?

If anything you're the poser because waahhh a car that I dont like means its shit. Nice "enthusiasm for cars retard".

Sour grapes.
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>>14242039

>Turns well
It corners like an S13 or FC.. such wow
>Not pigfat - only relevant lighter cars are 4C and Miata
Doesn't really matter if it sucks at what it does. The miata is an unstable, rattly deathtrap at the limit.
>Looks good
Only if you have botched eye surgery
>Can go sideways if you want
Does it ever do this when you don't want? Hmm maybe that supposed great handling isn't so great when its pouring rain and you want to get somewhere
>RWD
much special.. very unique among economy boxes
>LSD on base model
So you have a chance to save the unexpected slides
>Costs marginally more than a Corolla
26-30k for a 200hp coupe, let that sink in
>Fun to drive and handles well
If you suck at driving sure it's SPORTY!
>Comes in MT
much special.. very unique among economy boxes
>Only downside is a 0-60 in ~6.2s, but who gives a fuck really.
When you can't outrun an 18 year old N/A 2.5RS on your two-gay you will be giving a fuck. When a heavy E46 M3 is on your ass and you can't lose him because your 'great handling car' only wants to slide around you will give a fuck.
>Setting lap times on Track is about skill and tuning.
M8... only in restricted classes.
>Only scenario where it fucking matters in the slightest is if you decide to street race in a straight with a 86 but then you're a retard so who cares.
Say you want to get infront of a mini van or a camry. Some of those V6s will give you trouble. The only thing that feels gayer than being rekt by a family car that didn't even know you were trying to get ahead is to actually have a penis in your rectum.
>>
>>14242204
back to reddit faggot
>>
>>14242213
GT86 internet defense force, plz go.

If your car wasn't shit you wouldn't have to keep explaining to everybody why it's good.
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>>14242204
> such wow
Kinda really is such wow ya fuckin retard. With safety regulations and shit making cars heavy and whatnot. If you're going to compare new to old you might as well kill yourself in your 3k shitbox poorfag
>it sucks at what it does
What's good at what the frs does then? Oh right, nothing besides 60k+ cars. I bet you're going to post old cars again like the faggot you are because you can't come up with a decent argument that holds on equal grounds.
>botched eye surgery
Now you're just trying too hard. Even most people that hate these things think they look good.
>much special
Ya, let's just talk about good points in a condescending tone. That'll show them and somehow act as a legitimate point. Right? RIGHT?
>unexpected slides
L2Drive. You talk about the Miata at the limit so I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you had some semblence of knowing how to drive, but you've lost it. GOOD FUKKIN JOB M8
>26-30k for a 200hp coupe, let that sink in
Seems right? What's the alternative at that price that does everything in your delusional world? let the fact that you're poor as fuck sink in because you can't afford a corolla-priced car.
>If you suck at driving sure it's SPORTY!
The fuck does this even mean? Guess all those profressional drivers that praise the cars suck at driving and are not comparable to your greatness living in your moms basement with your shitbox.
>two-gay
>1s faster 0-60 mattering
pick one, also as if street racing you're probably turboing the thing
>M8... only in restricted classes.
Then who gives a fuck if its not restricted? You have decent skills and you'll still lose to someone with a snek. I thought this was a board for car enthusiasts, not for cocksuckers who care about who can buy the more expensive car. Is the veyron your favourite thing then you cuck?
>Some of those V6s
Ya if i wanted to get ahead of one of those who werent yielding it would definitely be a safe lane change just because I had a 1s faster 0-60 right?
>>
>>14242262
Sour grapes plz go

If you aut/o/ists didn't hate everything you claim to like there wouldn't need to be a defense force
>>
Lol seems like it's the best option because I haven't heard an alternative yet besides old ass shitboxes which would cost me a lot in maintenance anyway.

So should I finance or lease it.
Im new to this stuff obviously but I want to mod it a bit.
>>
>>14233242
Why they suck? The torque hole at 3k rpms
>>
>>14244482
In daily driving you're working below it, in spirited driving you'll be above it. To pass on the freeway you have to downshift and rev it high.

If you want power at all times get a mustang or wrx or gti.
>>
>>14244517
bullshit, 3k is right in the most used part of the powerband
>>
>>14244482
Fixed with a tune
>>
>>14244534
Yeah no, if you shift at redline it avoids the dip, if you're driving in the city you're below it most of the time.
>>
>>14244561
Destroys your fuel economy though. If you're going fast you'll be above it anyway. It's there for highway cruising.
>>
>>14233242
just get a v6 mustang
>>
>>14244568
nah
>>
>>14244568
>redline
While that's fun and all you don't really have to do that, just shift here to avoid the dip:

1-2 7400
2-3 6300
3-4 5700
4-5 5350
5-6 5800
>>
>>14244392
>leasing it

I don't think you can lease a used car m8. So you'll have to finance, but judging that you're pretty young, financing a car that is less than 5 years old, you're gonna get murdered by insurance.

It's a totally fine car, I just don't know what your budget is like and if you could afford any newish car.
>>
>>14233242
What color are you leaning towards?
>>
>>14244787

If FRS, Black for sure. If not I'll settle for grey like in related pic. Idk which colors are exclusive to each model though

If subaru I'll get blue :)
>>
>>14244618

my salary is around 30k/yr basically
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