>2016 >his engine still doesn't have pushrods Pushrods

>4k redline
>less airflow because 2 valves per cylinder

kek

>>14210185
with pushrods it's mandatory to double clutch and most idiots can't.

>>14210185
Who is so autistic they write up a huge post about this minor shit

>>14210185
>The Automotive press is saying pushrods

Can you show me where?

>>14210185
>the automotive press
The vast majority of whom are know-nothings.

Why does pushrod v8 make more torks than overhead cam engines?

>>14210272
Pretty much. They're not engineers nor enthusiasts, they just want a paycheck and will publish whatever the advertising material says in their own words.

>>14210277
Well in the example OP gave, the 2 litres of extra displacement would have been 100% responsible

>>14210208
>LS engines rev to 8K
>Honda pushrod engines rev to 9.5K

>3rd gen Hemi flows 300+cfm @.500 lift, massively outflowing, well, everything
>pushrod =/= 2v. Honda made roadgoing multivalce pushrods, Chevy worked on concepts for the LS7. In the end, the 4v heads didn't outflow the 2v heads.

>>14210277
>Why does pushrod v8 make more torks than overhead cam engines?

Torque is dictated by displacement and stroke.
Not by the cams

A 4.0l DOHC engine is going to have more torque than a 2.0l pushrod engine
A 4.0l pushrod engine is going to have more torque than a 2.0l DOHC

>>14210303
stroke has very little to do with it

>>14210277
Because
>they can fit more displacement with the same size packaging
>they cannot rev as high, so they need more stroke for an equal piston speed
These two factors both cause a longer stroke - which results in more torque.

Also, most modern pushrod engines are designed for both truck use and pony car use. The shared design goal these two have is torque - so the designers make sure it'll have lots of that.

>>14210232
The fuck are you on about? Valvetrains have nothing to do with the transmission.

>>14210303
What if both have same displacement. Would they then have similar torks or what would be the deciding factor.

Or would the stroke still be differing between the two

>>14210317
>not getting the joke

>>14210326
Intake and exhaust flow (both head and manifold), cam profile and bore/stroke ratio all determine torque.

>muh torque

RPMs and gearing are much more important

>pushrods are good
maybe in the 1880s LOL

>>14210353
lmao you want to tell the actual professional engineers they're all doing it wrong.
>>14210326
stroke doesn't make much difference in road cars unless you're making big leaps like going from 50mm to 100+mm

>>14210361
>lmao you want to tell the actual professional engineers they're all doing it wrong.
In your head they are. You could have 500 lb/ft with a curb weight of 2500 lbs but with a 4K redline and low gearing it ain't going anywhere fast.

>>14210361
Yeah, those f1 engineers are totally wrong right

>>14210367
Torques+high gearing > Revs+anything

>>14210371
> inb4 muh nascar
F1 engines rev higher make more power and last longer before they need to be scrapped =))

>>14210371
except f1 engines make exceptional torque for their displacement

>>14210367
since when was 300hp/tonne slow?

>>14210373
That's why the c7 z06 takes over 10 seconds longer to gain a measly 20mph in top gear than the gtr or 911? Roflmao

> muh tork
> muh tall gearing
> 10 seconds slower to gain 20mph

>>14210378
>but muh hp who cares about gears
retard

>>14210384
>muh gears who cares about things like tork that's so american

>>14210389
that was my first post in the thread but stay mad americlap

>>14210378
Since its going through a 2.5 final drive

>idiots thinking pushrods=torque
>3 and 4 valve heads make more torque at any rpm than push rod engines

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>>14210185
>still using obsolete technology

>>14210393
still doesn't matter you mong, you ride the bus while i spent 5 years making wrc cars

>having a long rod pushing my valves is better than moving my camshaft!
americans are so delusional its almost disgusting

I think I prefer pushrods in V-engines (and boxers, I guess) just because of packaging, but in an inline-engine, DOHC is breddy gud.

>>14210255
People who's lives didn't go the way they wanted and now they lash out against whatever things they don't have, so they can feel good about the things they do have (an '80s Chrysler with a pushrod engine).

>>14210359
>OHC is good
Maybe in the 1910's lol

>>14210397
How many of those rally gears had a final drive that tall kek

> pushrod faggot so ass blasted he lies on the internet
Why would you do that

>>14210403
so you admit pushrods are stone age compared

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>>14210403
Ikr, people need to get with the times and stop using engines that have valves

>>14210405
>gearing makes a difference to power to weight ratio
>thinks i mentioned pushrods at any point
lmao

name one bonus pushrods give without making up anything

>>14210416
packaging

>>14210185
The only benefits to pushrods is engine packing, lower cg, and less complexity. ohc chains create more failure points, move the weight higher up in the engine, and make a physically bigger engine.

>>14210416
>no one can do it
laffin

>>14210416
Size
Weight
Friction
Cost

>>14210421
Packaging*

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americucks BTFO

>>14210419
>>14210428
>size
yeah pushrod engines are miniscule compare to OHC LOL
>weight
see above
>friction
i said without making up anything
>cost
still making up stuff

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ITT poorfag benchracers who don't know that 2k torque feel.

Yfw had 4v dohc 5.0
Mfw 2v pushrods are better

>>14210414
Gearing makes a difference to acceleration

>>14210419
Someone post the coyote vs ls dimensions, it's nothing

>>14210442
how mad can one person get?

>ls fangays near shitting their pants as we speak

>>14210439
>hurr i'll just ignore 2 extremely valid things and prove my own stupidity by not knowing what an engines internal friction is/does and thinking more cams don't add cost

>>14210448
5.0L vs 7.0L

>>14210444
thank you captain obvious. put the wrong gearing in either a high or low revving, high or low torque car and it will worsen acceleration. no shit.

>>14210457
he's just upset his ""trick"" question backfired

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>people think pushrods = torque
o god im dyin

>>14210448
LS makes monster power with cheap bolt ons, coyote needs boost to be anything besides a joke.

>>14210371
F1 engineers work under extremely (displacement-) limited rules. Most of their cutting edge work does not apply to road cars.

>>14210394
>implying
Not true on well-designed pushrod engines. Head flow out the wazoo.

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>>14210463
prove it
wait you can't because you are just shitposting

>>14210396
DOHC is just as outdated, being invented in 1912.

>>14210402
In an inline engine, you barely have any of the weight saving using pushrods. DOHC really is better there.

>>14210408
ICE is stone age. Using chemical energy to propel bullets is stone age too-doesn't mean it doesn't work to shoot stuff.
Both pushrods and OHC have their advantages. DOHC is better in inline engines, with redlines over 10K, while pushrods offer really small packaging and low weight in V engines, and can work up to 9K.

>>14210416
Only one cam per two cilinder banks.

>>14210481
>compares engines to guns
guess how i can tell you're american

>>14210255
>Who is so autistic they write up a huge post about this minor shit
People with critical thinking skills, i.e. not you.

>>14210416
>>14210439
Asking for proof and then mindlessly dismissing any proof that's handed to you - now that's some next level idiocy right there.

>>14210487
Dutch actually. Stop assuming.

>>14210499
clap getting butthurt over stoneage pushrods being proved shit time and time again

>>14210495
nah OP is just retarded

>>14210503
If you'd actually read that post, you'd know I'm not an americlap (thankfully).

>>14210522
>clap clap clap guns yeehaw
nice post reported

>>14210504
>OP is just retarded
Be that as it may, it beats the shit out of sitting on your hands and calling every argument autistic.

>>14210487
>two examples of controlled explosions in a cylindrical chamber pushing an object through the cylinder
>not comparable
guess how i can tell you failed everything at school

>>14210306
idiot

>>14210185
Bait thread pls go

>>14210375
And they're cheaper too

>>14210375
>>14210992
You'd be amazwd how similar F1 and Nascar engines are. Not choosing any sides here, but both are great engineering. Sure, Nascar engines don't last as long, but they're made under an arguably stricter set of rules.

>>14211957
Forgot to post

http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/comparison_of_cup_to_f1.htm

Captcha: 427.
How fitting.

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>>14210373
Two cars are traveling parallel at the same speed. Car A is at 2500 rpm and making 350 N-m of torque. Car B is at 6000 RPM making 200 N-m of torque. If the two cars start accelerating at the same time, who will pull ahead? Assume same weight, air resistance etc.

>>14212381
Comparing 160HP to 230HP

Don't be a shithead

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>Aardema has done SOHC conversions by building custom cam boxes that bolt to an existing overhead-valve motor's heads. On this LS motor, converting from OHV to SOHC configuration was worth 21 hp with an identical cam profile-and the engine happily revs to 7,000 rpm with no valve float.

>identical cam profile
>same heads
>worth 21 extra HP and no valve float

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/hrdp-1103-how-to-hot-rod-any-engine/

pushrod cuckolds on suicide watch

literally /thread

>>14212489
>makes the engine unnecessarily huge
>moves center of gravity upwards
>adds weight
>adds more complexity, reducing reliability
Totally worth those 21 horses.

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lol who needs pushrods or cams when you got fucking nazi doritos

>>14212502
I think pushrod valvetrains actually have more moving parts but you're right about the size and weight, I wouldn't be surprised if it has a worse power/weight.

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>>14212489

>>14212502
>>makes the engine unnecessarily huge
>>moves center of gravity upwards
>>adds weight
When did any of this matter since pushrods only end up in pigfat, cant turn 'merica mobiles?

>>14212534
The Viper and new Camaro can turn just fine, m8.
Hell, the pushrod-powered Viper embarassed yurop's pride, the million dollar 918, by beating it around 13 tracks.

how can I rev match with pushrods???

>>14210185
Can I get one of these in a car that weighs less than 2400lbs?

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>>14212502
>totally ignoring the fact that you no longer have the weight of pushrods, rockers and lifters

you are dumb kiddo, stay mad pushrods are obsolete

>>14212520
>!CUNTSWE.7k
stopped reading there

>>14212546
lel
http://gtspirit.com/2015/11/13/pagani-zonda-revolucion-sets-630-nurburgring-nordschleife-record/
>6:30
http://horsepowerkings.com/rumor-did-the-2016-viper-acr-crack-off-a-701-67-nurburgring-lap-time-back-in-october/
>7:01

>>14212601
>Zonda Revolucion
>street legal
Pick one.

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>>14212608
>grasping at straws

wanna go back to discussing how pushrods are inferior or want to benchrace some more?

>>14212620
>this cuck
>accusing others of benchracing
lel

>>14212628
>that is honestly the best he culd come up with

lel
see
>>14212588
>>14212489
stay mad

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>>14212641
>he's still sperging

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>>14212663
>he's still mad

We're not lauding your meme buzzword meant to sell trucks to rednecks.

Sincerely, your cousins from the other side of the ocean.

>>14212672
>replies instantly every time
so mad

>>14212502
>ohc is less reliable at sustained high rpm applications than ohv
enjoy bending your pushrods at 5k rpm, faggot

>>14212608
we can compare it to the 918 then or a pissy little radical, still slower :^)

>the viper is barely street legal
>if it didnt have nanny assists it wouldnt be legal at all

>>14213135
>has to go outside and walk his butthurt off or he will smash his keyboard again
lel
video is you replying to my posts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miOWJ4rKb_g

>>14210382
>What is a crusing gear
Off yourself

>>14212672
>>14212663
>>14212620
>>14210469
>>14210430
>>14210396
Why is the shitposting on /o/ so awful today?

Go back to /v/ faggots.

>>14213155
lel thanks for the insight into your delusions anon

>>14213188
np, after all, this is a thread made up solely on pushrod fangirl's delsions :^)

>>14210371
>>14210375
Some actual info on F1 vs NASCAR.

http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/comparison_of_cup_to_f1.htm

The NASCAR engine is near as efficient as an F1 engine. Worryingly so.

>>14213183
It's been like this for months dude, where have you been? That being said I'm waiting with bated breath for the next janitor opening.

>>14213191
Alphonse pls go

>>14213206
yurocucks BTFO

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>>14213210
>muh shitposter boogeyman
see
>>14212489
>>14212588

>>14213213
>less efficient
>less power
>heavier
>"BTFO"
???

>>14213206
>INB4 NEITHER SIDE READS THIS POST FOR LACK OF ABILITY TO REFUTE IT

>>14213232
>near as efficient
>using technology frequently called "obsolete"

>>14213206
>pushrod shit weighs 260kg
>f1 engine weighs 90kg
i thought muh ohv was meant to be light???

>pushrod cucks on suicide watch

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>>14213236
that post is irrelvant

NASCAR banned OHC due to inmense butthurt from Chrysler and their pushrod Hemi being inferior

>>14213229
the shitposters are real on /o/ and /m/. only escape is niche shit.

>>14213257
>its shitposting because I do not like facts

tumblr perhaps?

>>14213253
>>14213250
Its all fucking bait, Jesus Christ I don't know why I even bother.

Please respond to each point, or concede that you are a retard.

1. Displacement differences make up the weight difference
2. NASCAR engines are production block engines
3. The BMEP and MPS of each engine are within under 1% and 5%, respectively.
4. Given point 3, remember the NASCAR engine at the time of calculation was also using a carb, flat tappets, and steel pushrods and steel or aluminum rockers. Again, worryingly close numbers for an engine that is much more restricted.

>>14213278
American engineering proven superior once again
yurocucks BTFO

>>14213278
>2. NASCAR engines are production block engines
whats the prodcution block used by Ford and Toyota?

>>14213206

Well, if you consider that shitty comparison per rpm, you can be proud of redneck shiterace of nascar, but in the end:

F1: ~800hp, <100kg.
Nascr: ~800hp, >250kg.

Lame.

>>14213278
why aren't carbonfibre pushrods more of a thing? do i need to make my own?

>>14213278
no one is discussing nascar vs F1 but you

Nascar is proof OHC>OHV, because they banned OHC for being better

>>14213278
You assume F1 engines are stretched out to their maximum potential, they are severely limited in power output and have been for decades. Nascars meanwhile are pretty much at the peak of whats possible under their regulations and less reliable than the f1 engines (which have a much much much higher potential output)

>Displacement differences make up the weight difference
What? 90kg vs 260kg. Deal with it.

>>14210277
>>14210303
>>14210306

You should all take some time to learn about what dictates the amount of torks an engine produces at a certain RPM.

It is mostly down to how efficiently air gets into the cylinder due to resonance in the intake manifold and whatnot.

I think it is explained reasonably well here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAZP2Rlq43c

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>>14210208
>dat 4k redline

>>14210463
O really. I find that hard to believe seeing as my 5.0 has 435 rwhp with bolt ons. Up from 380 stock.

>mfw made the switch to pushrod and all iron i6 and v8 all alum ls1
Truely master race

Fuck iron block alum head recipe for disaster

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>>14213337
>6k

>>14213183
things i dont agree with are shitposting right guys????

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>bbut it moves the center of gravity upwards!
shit, call all the F1 teams and tell them they've been using the wrong engines

>>14210439
Size: Check out the overall packaging of a Coyote vs any SBC and youll see, if you ever even seen a big block chevy (396, 454, etc) youd know its smaller than a V arranged DOHC (coyote, 4.6) motor of the same cylinder arrangement. Dont believe me go pop some hoods
Weight: Youre saving 3 cams and vastly larger heads, traded for smaller heads (less material) a single cam, and a single timing gearset, it's an absolute no brainer.
Friction: Now i disagree with this point, even using rollers in the OHV this is invalid as there is a whole lot of friction with a pushrod moving in its galley and against a rocker.
Cost: Please see above, if it means anything the latest iteration of the corvette was specifically designed to utilize pushrod technology because it was cheaper to manufacture, hence a dramatically lower cost to produce making the car more affordable. If you disagree do some reading. But if youre gonna shitpost that hard at least leave a disclaimer, theres probably someone reading this who is legitimately confused by how much arguing you dipshits do over fact.

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>>14213678
>the coyote is the only OHC v8 being made delusional

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>>14214390

>>14214390
>>14214402
>3.0l
>needing to rev to the fucking moon to make any semblance of power
do you even TORQUE

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>>14214415
no because its a sports car and not a fucking truck

>>14213678
5.0L DOHC Coyote
>28" Length
>26" Height
>27.5" Wide
>444lbs

LS1
>28.75" Length
>28.25" Height
>25" Wide
>440lbs

>>14214487
>LS1 longtubes + cam
>400+ rwhp

"The real measure of an engine is how much it weighs compared to the power it makes"
In that case rotary engines are your fav.

>>14210305
But you're FUCKING wrong.

Why do diesels make so much torque?
BECAUSE THEY HAVE A LONG STROKE YOU FUCKING NIGGER

>>14212489
>Spend $130 on stiffer valve springs for your LS engine
>No more valve float

>>14215289
>added wear to rollers and rockers
>risk of bending a pushrod

>>14213360
Are you one of those idiots that thinks you need a 10k rev limit to make power?

Go drown yourself in a bathtub.

>>14215298
I bought stiffer valve springs, better lifters and stronger pushrods for my engine for $400.
It's not that expensive to mod an OHV engine.

>>14215331
yeah thats probably its only advantage

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Pushrodfags are almost as annoying as Ron Paul voters and Kony 2012 memers

I have a friend who cannot stop saying "JUST SWAP AN LS IN IT" when talking about any car ever. It gets fucking boring.

The LS is a good motor for what it does. The BMW S54 is good for what it does. Those tweaked out Nissan V6s are pretty amazing too.

Pushrods can't into VVT systems and can't vary cam profiles and timing on both their intake and exhaust sides at the same time. Advantages and disadvantages exist in all designs.


So fuck off back to Forza and LS swap everything to impress your 14 year old friends.

>>14215354
OHV engines are also stupid easy to work on.

I did my entire top end rebuild and valvetrain, timing set, camshaft, lifters, springs, etc. etc. all by myself in my garage with basic hand tools.
I don't think I'd attempt anything like that on a SOHC / DOHC engine for my first time around.

>>14215433
the only difficult part is the timing since there are more cams

its just as easy

>>14215365
>Pushrods can't into VVT systems

But you're wrong. So very, very wrong.

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>Pushrods can't into VVT systems and can't vary cam profiles and timing on both their intake and exhaust sides at the same time. Advantages and disadvantages exist in all designs.

>>14215450
Did you miss the part about exhaust and intake valves being varied independently?

Pic related, it's what you're trying to be

>>14213253
>NASCAR banned OHC
>>14213313
>they banned OHC for being better

Post proof. Not any article about how the Cammer was made, actual proof, as in a period Nascar rulebook.

Guesswhat: you can't. They didn't ban it. Turns out putting a SOHC iron big block into a car severely hurts it's handling. It'll work in a straight line (Cammers dominated dragracing for about half a decade), but not in Nascar.

>>14213412
>displacement limited racing series
Does not apply to the real world.

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>>14210185
>2016
>his engine has pushrods
Kek

>>14215365
>>14215698
>Pushrods can't into VVT systems
Go look up the Viper's cam-in-cam VVT. Fully independent VVT right there.

Also, you try doing variable displacement on a DOHC engine. It's a mess.

>>14217287
>Because of strong protests from the Chrysler camp, NASCAR threatened significant weight handicaps on Cammer-powered Galaxies, and the engine was eventually banned outright from competition.

http://www.onallcylinders.com/2014/01/16/top-10-engines-time-revealed-10-ford-427-sohc-cammer/

>b-b-but they banned it because it wasn't in a production car

Wrong, the reasoning was because it wouldn't fit under the stock hood. Chrysler ran the 426 hemi before it was ever in a production car.

>>14217310
>summit racing blog
>not a rulebook

Everyone keep telling Nascar banned them - but where's the actual, honest to god proof? I've searched for several years now, and I'm afraid there isn't any.

I suspect the engines where just too damn heavy to perform on Nascar track. They worked great when dragracing though.

The Hemi specifically created that production-car rule. As in:
>Chrysler makes Hemi
>races Hemi, dominates season
>someone whines
>Chrysler homologates Hemi
Ford could've done the very same with the Cammer (and it's a shame they didn't). Problem was probably that the added weight didn't work.

>>14217310
>Virtually all modern engines operate their valves through one or two overhead camshafts that push the valves open from above. It used to be that a single camshaft mounted in the engine block opened the valves from below, using long pushrods to activate rocker arms that pressed the valves open. This is still how the GM small-block V8 and the Chrysler Hemi V8 operate, though the Hemis splay the valves apart to fit into a pentroof combustion-chamber design (sorry, Chrysler—it isn't really a semihemispherical "hemi" shape anymore, though it's close). But Nascar engines still use the older, less efficient wedge-combustion-chamber shape with the intake and exhaust valves aligned in the same plane.

>b-b-but SOHC isn't banned, they just make the manufacturers use the same OHV design for their heads

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a6652/5-ways-nascar-stock-engines-arent-actually-stock/

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>>14217342
>it wasn't banned

Top kek. Here's a newspaper clip from '65 debunking your "it wasn't banned" theory.

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Get fucked overhead camshaft toddlers. Whats next? FWD is superior?

>>14217382
>flathead a shit
>offie a goat

I'm torn.

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>>14217392
Pic related is best Offy

>>14217392
>>14217392
>I'm torn.

This will help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpoUtzedVWk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrMRkq6lY4s

>V engines
>Straight engines
>W engines
>VR enignes

Stay plebs y'all fuckers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrMRkq6lY4s

>>14217497
>tfw thought it was going to be a link to natalie imbruglia

Thanks based Anon.

>redneck punk

Weird combo.

>>14215271
read a fucking book nigger

>>14215131
>Coyote stock
>435 HP
What's your point?

>>14215271
You should probably finish high school first so you have a good foundation of knowledge to be able to go to first principles, rather than just regurgitating shit your hillbilly uncles tell you.

>>14217755
>coyote
>435bhp
>380ish whp

What's your point?

>>14214487
Why not compare it to an LS3?

>>14213355
This.

See boss 302 5.0
>capable of nearly 550 horsies without forced induction.
>red lines at 7,500
Engine is bulletproof unlike the rod throwing LS bullshit.

>>14210467
Really? Not the ERS hybrid technology that they are fine-tuning? Not the turboes without any lag at all? I could talk about all the tech that came out of Formula 1 for hours.

>>14210277
Because there's no replacement for displacement... years of NASCAR engine development tells us that

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>2016
>his _____ still doesn't have _____

_____ are superior to _____. The _____ press is saying _____. Heck, even the Europeans are lauding the _____ _____ and _____.

You cannot argue with that, especially since the only alternatives are the _____ mills from _____ and _____ that, while generate near-_____ _____, are painfully lacking in _____. _____, in fact, that rivals _____ mills. _____ history and commercial viability is screaming for the _____ design of the _____ in terms of overall engineering supremacy.

Despite what _____ fags say, _____ or _____ or whatever never meant anything and it never will. It's a stupid marketing gimmick. The real measure of an _____ is how much it _____ compared to the _____ it makes. In that regard _____ are superior engineering, they get the job done making the same _____ with less _____, smaller _____ and fewer _____. There's no point in _____ unless you're trying to impress _____.
Insert Shitpost Here.
You're welcome /o/.

>>14218065
>comparing 6.2l to 5l
can you see why you're retarded?

>>14218238
why is it retarded? why does it have to be "fair"
when f1 gave a choice of 1.5 litre turbo and 3 litre na engineers went turbo because that was the best solution for them.
only cosworth argued about "fair" and didn't win anything again for over a decade.
when real life gives you the choice of 6.2 litre with pushrods and 5 litres with ohc then who's to say those same f1 engineers wouldn't go for the pushrods? iirc mercedes actually did at one point

>>14218222
Your efforts and trips are much appreciated.

>>14218222
someone fill this in with apples and oranges

My ___ pisses in your ___'s intake, fuck off queer.
Go ahead and benchrace. I've owned more vehicles than you've seen years, and I was thoroughly underwhelmed by the ___. The interior is 90s KIA tier too.

They are what got me interested in sports coupes again, but they are a letdown in reality. And I am a ___ fanboi. The ___ blew the ___ away in the feels dept, that's why I bought one instead.

The ___ has ___ class with ___ acceleration, and the handling characteristics you'd expect from a ___ making ___+hp at the crank.

You fell for the meme, while people who actually like cars and driving chose any number of quicker sharp handling cars in the price range.

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>>14218222

Toyota are superior to Honda. The Jewish press is saying 6gorillion. Heck, even the Europeans are lauding the Gas Chambers, Holocausters and Swimming Pools.

You're welcome /pol/

>>14218047
>when f1 gave a choice of 1.5 litre turbo and 3 litre na engineers went turbo because that was the best solution for them
too bad we are talking 5l v8 vs 5l v8 here. blow the fuck out of the myth "HUUR OHC ADDS SO MUCH WEIGHT AND SIZE AND HUUR FUCJKNG DUUR"

>>14218786
>the point
>your head

>2016
>still pronounces tomato as tomato
tomato is superior to tomato. Even the press is saying that tomato is obviously supposed to be pronounced tomato. Heck, even the Europeans are lauding the tomato as superior in both pronunciation and nourishment terms

You cannot argue with that, especially since the only alternatives are saying tomato instead of tomato, while generating near record-breaking numbers of tomato sayers to tomato sayers, are painfully lacking in tomatoes. burn that rival's tomato mills. Tomato history and commercial viability is screaming for the re-tomato-design of the tomato in terms of overall tomato supremacy.

Despite what artichoke fags say, saying tomato like that or lettuce heads or whatever never meant anything and it never will. It's a stupid marketing gimmick. The real measure of a tomato pronouncer is how much it sounds like tomato compared to the tomatoes it makes. In that regard tomato are superior engineering, they get the job done making the same number of people saying tomato instead of tomato with less unfortunate things happening to tomato, smaller stems and fewer tomato nay-sayers. There's no point in saying tomato unless you're trying to impress the wrong tomato fanbase.