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Helicopters and airships
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You are currently reading a thread in /n/ - Transportation

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File: airship.jpg (109 KB, 686x466) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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I have a quick question which I'm hoping /n/ might be able to help with, no one else seems to!

What would be the best way to launch a helicopter from a modern airship? I'm trying to get "realistic" or "believable" ideas, such as side ramps/hatches or possible a top section on the airship - I don't know how modern construction methods would work with this.

Basically, I'm writing a novel set in a slightly alternate now where airships and helicopters are the norm for reasons, and if you developed a helicopter carrier, how it might work.

Thanks!
>>
>>897354
>Helicopters
>How to launch
>Ramps
Yeah, you don't even know what a helicopter is
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>>897357
Sorry, I meant ramps that would fold down/slide out from the airship so the helicopter could taxi out and take off.
>>
Helicopters take off and land vertically OP, there's no need for anything beyond a landing pad and hanger that the machine can be towed into.
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>>897358
>Helicopters
>Taxiing
just forget the idea op
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>>897410
You know that helicopters can have wheels and taxi, right?
>>
Ideally, you'd have a landing pad on top of the ship, just like the one on a surface ship.

But a top-heavy airship would be an inverted pendulum, inherently unstable. A pad jutting out of the side would pose the same problem, just smaller.

Any weight you put on top would have to be offset by weight on the bottom, so a sensible approach would be to have minimal landing pads on top and everything else on the bottom, with elevators connecting the two parts.

You could also make both ends more balanced, because the reasons strong enough to make you want to do something as precarious as choppers on airships would probably make you want to deploy those choppers efficiently.

This could actually give you a plot device - balance envelopes. The ship could be pretty close to balanced, so that equipment or people getting on and off, or up and down, would throw it into top-heavy mode and cause it to tip over.

You could put the ship in position where it would brush up against going top heavy. Say, a helicopter coming in for an urgent landing when the ship can't bear it's weight on top without flipping over because the bottom portion of the ship lost a lot of weight due to resource depletion / having parts blown off.

You could go even further and equip the ships with balancing engines capable of sustaining the top-heavy ship. They would naturally make weak points ripe for the picking.
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>>897443
Thank-you, that *is* very useful.
>>
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So the biggest issues are safet (cause rotors on top) and balancing (heavy helo on top of airship = not so good). Then I remembered that WWII Japanese supersubmarine aircraft carrier has a similar problem....solved the balancing with double hulled design. So have 2 side-by-side blimp bags connected with scaffolding. With a gap, you could even lower the helicopters into the space between them. Bonus: extra space for other stuff.
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>>897463
Sorry for the tiny-ass thumb...here's bigger
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>>897463
>>
>>897463
>>897465
This is what I was thinking, there are several 2 bodied airships in fantasy, presumably to give more lateral stability or make room for something big in the middle.
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Here's an illustration from 1910
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>>897354
Here's one of an airship with a topdeck, In theory, it's not actually necessary to have it be bottom heavy, as long as you have a way to dynamically keep the center of gravity over the center of lift.
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>>897478
If I had a 50 million dollars
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It would not be difficult to make a helo with a big hook on the top. Lots of them have big structural things passing through a hollow main shaft, even a whole counter-rotating rotor system! Then it could just latch onto a bar on the bottom of the airship, like with the Akron and Macon. There might be a 'reverse ground effect' that would suck the spinning rotor into the airship hull, and the pilot would have poor visibility on the hook, but it could be made to work.
Or they could just hover upside-down and have the airship crew grapple the skids.
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>>897396
the issue is that the airship could be at a greater height than the maximum climb-height of the chopper attempting to launch from it. you'd have to get your airship pretty close to the ground for the chopper to get higher than it and fly off.
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>>897486
and counteract the effect of side winds

possible yes, practicable?
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>>897354
OP, between the ever-shifting COG and weight and balance sheets, the fact that lighter-than-air aviation is basically a slave to the wind, and that airships move at a snails' pace, there's no sense in turning one into an aircraft carrier. They experimented with it in the 1920s with disastrous results.
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>>897666
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>>897673
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>>897683
>>
Helium airships are the safest airtravel transporation device though
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>>897690
Yes, but that's a rare occurrance, whereas every single flying aircraft carrier the Navy built went down in flames.

To add on to that, the Air Force once tried putting "parasite fighters" on their bombers as a proof-of-concept for long-range escort, and it didn't work very well at all.

I'm not saying "DON'T WRITE A STORY WITH FLYING AIRCRAFT CARRIERS BECAUSE IT'S DUMB LOL", go ahead and write that. I'm saying that it's not a very realistic or viable concept, so it's hard to make conceits to realism and viability.
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>>897691
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>>897694
>small tethered aerostat
>comparable to rigid airship
No
>>
>>897529

Unlikely, unless it was pressurized, and I'm not aware of any that are/ever were. Also, if it was pressurized it would need to depressurize a large hanger space to launch an aircraft, then re-pressurize; so even more unlikely. Most helicopters have service ceilings above 10,000ft, at which point you need to either be pressurized or use an oxygen system. Cruising at a pressure altitude of 8,000 would allow you to be unpressurized, efficient for piston engines, and launch and recover almost any helicopter.
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Just fuck being realistic. Go with rule of cool.
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>>897486
>mfw solar rotors
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>>897895
Nothing wrong with Rule of Cool, so long as the end product is actually cool. Proper example: Star Wars Original Trilogy. Shitty example: Star Wars Prequel Trilogy
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>>897523
this post gave me Dreams,,, and when i postd them,,,,banhamr!
, wet,, gooey,,,,, DREAMS!, oo YA!
,,,,whatid i say?, its a story thread?
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>>897523
Hover upside down?
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>>897354
Nuclear powered, hydrogen lifiting balloons

Somewhat heavier than air, has wings

Lightweight fission powerplant allows it to stay airborne months on end.

Sound good?
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>>900206
not fission, fusion

fill it with tritium/deuterium and it'll double as fuel tank
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>>897523
>hollow main shaft
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>>900457
if you drop a choper from high,, willit start autorotating?, i think so., need to have the prop strap on for that scene., can do the shootit off thing!
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>>900206
Shielding makes any nuclear powerplant the polar fuckin' opposite of "lightweight". Apply yourself.
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>>900463
they have new Paint,, it stops ionizing particles.,,, im bathing in it now!
,, nukes inthe Air? what could go wrong??
,,, see episode 1 off "Thunderbird9">. nuclear plane has bomb set to BOOM if landing gear is deployed,, plane can fly forever but crew is going to die from rads in,,9..8... 7....6......5. .......4.........3... .....2..... .1..OHHHH SAVED! justin time!, just a 98% lethal dose.,walk it OFF!
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>>900539
>Paint stops ionizing particles
JK!, you knew that already.
,, Radioactive particles,, unsafe at any
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>>900540
Wikipedia research project: Convair X-6
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>>900548
>Convair X-6
you FUKINRATS!,, flying the plane of mutation over unsuspecting Moms!!
,WHO,? thought up this idea!?,, the same fools who keep droping NUKES,, by mistake?
,,Fuku!
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>>900571
you do realize nuclear is the safest source of power
>>
>>902656
He probably doesn't. Because the media cartel won't let you know about all those uninhabitable zones caused by exploding solar cells.
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>>902659
>uninhabitable zones
Are you pulling my leg here?
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>>902659
Oh come on, it has only happened once!
>>
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>>902656
you do realize,, nuclear is the most expensive?
,, for 26,000 years it will remain the most expensive.
,,,,,
and,, NO!!, its not safe,,, its VERY, not safe.
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>>902696
>le big bad fukmashi up boogeyman
Waaaa!!! Waaaa!!!
>>
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"Waaaah, inneficient, waaahhh!!!!"
>>
"WAAH, expensive waaaaah!!!""
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>>902697
>>902699
>>902703
HAAAhaaHAAAAEEEYA! HAAAA HAA!
,,,EEEeeeha!,EEEeeeha!
,im not laffing with you., its gallows humor.
,,,, i feel like the guy in "Red October" as the torpedo is bearing down on them,, he turns to the Cap. and says,"Youve killed us all".
,,,YOUFUKU!!
,,,,, shhhhhhh, shhhhhh,,, no tears, only dreams now.
>>
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>>902697
slow kill,, mutate your kids kill,,, generations of kill, everyday kill,, autism soul kill.
,,cascading radionucleatides rolling in the waves.
,nuclear war,, landmine style!
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>>897354
>slightly alternate now where airships and helicopters are the norm for reasons

Why don't you abandon your existing conceptions of helicopters and airships and invent new ones based on your intuitive understanding? If you already have 'reasons' it should be easy to come up with new designs. If you don't know much about helicopters and airships, take a demo flight in a helicopter and try to get a ride on a Goodyear blimp or something. Don't just try to shovel real helicopters onto real airships because these are optimized for existing purposes and wouldn't exist in your future.

>>897693

I think it's mostly because of the vortices and wake behind the aircraft and around the wingtips. It made it very difficult to control the parasites. Same reason the XB-70 got hit by its escort.

>>902718

It was a really interesting movie. There were some comparisons made between the E2C (?) and the submarine; pressure vessels with their own homeostatic equilibrium like living creatures. When they all abandon the sub it reminded me of boiling something to get rid of bacteria.

Ultimately though the sub combat didn't seem to make much sense to me spatially so it fell a little flat.
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>>902703
oooo so WRONG!
,, BUT,, lets just asssssssume its rite.
,1 penny for 20 kilowattttts (READ THE BROCHURE)
,,so cheeap?,, but now you have waste to pay for,, after 20 years that same Kilowat will now be a penny each!
,,,ooo LOOK> your still paying after 200 years so its 10 pennys now,,,, KEEP pAYING till 20000 years. slow death,,not cheap, at ANY PRICE!
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>>902718
do those goggles fog up innawinter?
>>
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>>902753
gota keep movin.
,,cantstop!
>>
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cheap,, gitin cheapr.
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>>902732
Why would you pay for something buried in the ground?
>>
Gets better
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>>902761
GAMERA!! the flying ,, flameshooting, Turtle!
,,100Billion$ hole in the ground wouldnt DO!
,Cherynobl much?, keeps Clawing back to the surface!
,,saveus Godzilla!
>>
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>>900036
Ya, hovering upside-down is totally a thing and RC models do it all the time. Not much demand for the ability in full size helos, or pilots able to do it, but flipping over and sustaining negative thrust is no more technically difficult than regular hovering. (ie: still pretty difficult.) Symmetric rotor blades do come with a performance penalty but not a huge one.
>>900457
Hollow main shafts are not uncommon in helos. Some have several layers of concentricity.
>>900463
Unmanned vehicles are the new face of war. Who needs shielding?
>>902696
There was a detectable rise in background radiation on the west coast after the Japan thing, but was it ever worse than eating a few bananas? Like all risks it demands perspective and balance, not unreasoning terror. It did kinda suck for the folks living in the neighborhood though...
>>902718
When Pakistan, Israel, and Best Korea all have The Bomb, I don't think nucular proliferation is a useful cause. That ship has sailed, lets just get on with it.
>>902696
>>902732
There are risks to everything, but the risks of nuclear power are well understood and acceptable. The waste does not need to be stored for geologic time, it can just be re-processed because see above.

and as always: cool pics and insightful commentary Bacon!
>Pic related: what a nuclear powered unmanned military vehicle might look like.
>>
hey guys, how about instead of helicopters we have vtol and we drop they out of the bay like a missile and the ship is a big tube and they land by flying into the tube
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>>902904
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9nUOaWccmY
>>
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>>897465
Looks like a dreadnaught tbo
>>
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>>902777
>re-processed
>>
>>897354
Hate to break it to you but somebody already beat you to that book idea. See Airborn by Kenneth Oppel. Just substitute helicopters for ornithopters. It's an ok young adult series. Just ok though.
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>>904988
yo Airborn was my shit as a kid

those weird cloud animal/people were sick
>>
>>897923
Hmm I think the ships from the prequel trilogy were as good as those from the original ones.

But Rule of Cool is something which always has to take part of the design process of mighty machines!
>>
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>>902777
>a few bananas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKO2OAyAs84
>>
>>905699
>conspiracy theorists
>THE PACIFIC

>IT's DEEEAAADDDDD
>HANG ABE!!!

Maybe you should get some facts from industry workers.
>>
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>>908037
>get some facts
6, Total core meltdowns!,, millions of gallons of killer waste water discharged into the ocean every day., waves of Death., no stoping it,, for 100000 years,,, GOOD JOB!
,,, what, "Fact,, will make that goaway?
.
,we used Rads to split DNA at UCI (Uni-cali-irvine),, our first calculations left fruitfly larva dead!,, amazing how little itakes to Crackyour Genes!
>>
>>908037
pedant mode: Naoto Kan was PM at the time
>>
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>>908037
3000 years,, from now.
,, will your kids be keeping us "safe?,, fixing the cracks in SanOnofre as it leaks like a Cage?
, you DID hear that the TONS of killwaste is to be stored in DryCasks on the beach?, FUKN cardboard!
,,,DryCasks FAIL!,, fast, and furious!
>>
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>>908088
>>908096
>waves of death
Show me a peer-reviewed study stating the death of populations on the west coat of North America directly linked to Fukushima

>>908096
>dry casks fail
Show me one that has failed
>>
>>908088
Pedant mode: units 5 & 6 at Fukushima I were in a cold shutdown mode for servicing, and had been for several months.
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>>908966
>cold shutdown mode,,, soundso SAFE~!
,,radioactive kill., allday eryday,,,100000 years.
,, NO! you wont get super powers from it .
>>908915
>one that has failed

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/03/26/395615637/official-report-nuclear-waste-accident-caused-by-wrong-kitty-litter
>>
>>909778
>http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/03/26/395615637/official-report-nuclear-waste-accident-caused-by-wrong-kitty-litter

Holy fucking shit, you have no reading comprehension.

THAT'S NOT A DRY CASK

IT'S A FUCKING DRUM

Notice how the workers are able to get so close to them?

BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HOLD HIGH-LEVEL WASTE AS DRY CASKS DO

Drums are used to hold LOW-LEVEL WASTE

Don't go full fucking retard.
>>
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>>909778
Repeat with me

THIS IS A DRY CASK

IT IS USED TO HOLD HIGH LEVEL WASTE

IT HAS NEVER BEEN RECORDED TO FAIL AND RELEASE RADIOACTIVE WASTE

IT CAN WITHSTAND A COLLISION AT OVER 100 MPH
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tick. tick. tick. TOCK!
,, they be BACK!!
>>
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>>909804
we can just Ducktape it!
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>>909805
pedant mode: nuclear power stations use uranium dioxide, not fissile material.
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>>897354
Fission is not the future. Europe is full of fission reactors. It´s inevitable that one is going to blow up. Belgium is using 5 reactors from 1975 and every month something goes wrong (water leaks, pump failures, fires) yet they keep using them. Unlike in the US these reactors are stationed in highly dense populated area.s If one melts down more then 2/3 million people have to be evacuated.
>>
>>909848
Uranium dioxide is fissile. That's literally how a nuclear power plant produces energy: the fuel is undergoing fission.
>>
>>909866

I hope the muslims get to them 4 some real lulz.
>>
>>909866
European reactors would likely meltdown, if they metldown, like TMI, no explosion, all contained, why do you think hydrogen explosions will occur?
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>>909866
Also, European reactors are fitted with filtered vents, and multiple, portable generators
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>>905678
Yes, but none of it was something that got ingrained into memory like the Millennium Falcon, X-Wings, TIE fighters or Star Destroyers, and everything was pure CGI.

Also, I fucking loved Episode 7
>>
>>909904
fissionable ≠ fissile
do pay attention in physics class next time
Thread replies: 88
Thread images: 47
Thread DB ID: 395304



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