/classical/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb_SvKEfLzY
post qt3.14 pieces

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I claim Mirga btw
you guys post other qts

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hey you guyz, since we're a serious general now let's do what those very serious gentlemen over in /jazz/ do

what are you listening to right now?
who is your favourite conductor?
what recitals/concerts are you going to this month?

I believe in chuu /classical/

>>72676226
Sorry sweaty, but I was the one to post Mirga in earlier threads and so already claimed her, please look elsewhere

>>72676473
Richter in Leipzig
Scherchen
Only really got one lined up and that's a concert focusing on the performance of colossal polyphony (so Spem in alium, Striggio's Missa sopra Ecco si beato giorno, and some other stuff), should be singing in it but I've got other things to be doing instead so I can't make rehearsals. Should be great though.

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>>72676473
mite as well ansr my own questns

>what are you listening to right now?
going thru Gardiner's recordings of the cantatas
>who is your favourite conductor?
Philippe Herreweghe desu
>what recitals/concerts are you going to this month?
none I am afraid to go. my pills make me sleepy and the stress never goes away it's just dulled
I tried going once and I ended up standing next to the wall near the entrance because my seat was in the middle of the row and there were already other people there
people looked at me funny several times and I cried until I fell asleep when I got home

(pls dont let the thread die)

>>72676226
>qts
I dont see it. She's 6/10 max

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>>72676489
>sweaty

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>>72677343
Homosexual please, she's at least an 8/10.
Look over more pics of women when they're not caked up in makeup.

is this /pseud/ general?

>>72677539
no this is a fun general

>>72677521
she's got a pretty manly jawline

>>72677152
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mStIP_3b_Rk

just listening to some fragile stuff. whilst feeling fragile.

https://youtu.be/13BUCrHFBeA

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>>72677765
hey I didn't know about Arthur Lourie
taking a brake from Bach and listening to his concerto spirituale atm
it sounds very strange.
the music is homophonic and harmony is pretty traditional but the orchestral accompaniment is very modern .

>feeling fragile
no worries we r safe here

>>72677539
what is a /pseud/ ?

this is /classical/ mostly we talk about classical music, but sometimes degenerates talk waifus or just shitpost

>>72677948
>the music is homophonic and harmony is pretty traditional
hmm, nvm desu there were a few debussy-like deviations in the second half andit is pretty chromatic in the last quarter
basically late medieval meets early 20th century

this was cool

/classical/ will never be a serious general until the posters who know what they're talking about will stand up to steer the threads in that direction and everyone else applies themselves and begins to own up to their posts.

>>72678489
classical is as serious as any other thread on /mu/, which isn't saying much.

>>72676473
1.) Ernst Busch lieder
2.) Claudio Abbado
3.) None. Don't live close enough to any.

>>72678489
Then you start.
>You all do this while I do nothing.

>>72677765
>she's got a pretty manly jawline
Conducting is a pretty manly vocation.
You're the captain of the crew and all.

Ligeti (underrated)

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Brahms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0-jYRaS7Po

>>72677152
>>72677765
>>72677948
Please cut it out with the
>tfw autism
stuff. It's depressing.
>>72678489
>this fag again
Didn't you say you will never post in this shit again? Why are you still here?

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Post Liszt

>>72679540
I'm here to teach you manbabies a thing or two with my love of Bach and Chopin.

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>>72677343
Garbage taste detected

>>72676473
>what are you listening to right now?
Currently nothing but tomorrow I'll dive into Górecki's Symphony No. 3

>who is your favourite conductor?
Not sure but I kind of like Leif Segerstam

>what recitals/concerts are you going to this month?
None

>>72679915
>garbage taste
Ironic based on the contents of your post

>>72679984
wow rude

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>>72679915
>Górecki's Symphony No. 3

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Schubert is my waifu

>>72680304
Looks like a school shooter.

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I claim Lili Boulanger as my slut for this thread.
You can all have a go at her on the house.
Except that guy who puts her on a pedestal.
He may only watch us pummel her pussy.

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Rate my qtpi senpaitachi

>>72680475
>Those lustful eyes

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>during those moments when only the orchestra is playing, she looks out into the audience to make sure you are only ever watching her

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>womenposting is the new /classical/ meme
Well, it's better than bogposting I can say that much.

>>72681942
>hommage to boulez
>cover picture is an anus

>>72681965
Barenboim's not on the cover, though

Where is s/t?

>>72681981
Rude.

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>>72679540
don't be depressed everything will be ok
embrace your autism. we are safe here

(I am rescuing the thread from page 9 guyz pls)

I do not understand this "I can't listen to classical music with vocals" meme

>>72683085
I don't understand either
what meme?

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What's the common stance, among composers and critics, about musical systems, especially tonality?
Is there a consensus about it? I have just started listening to classical music and I'm still completely removed from the contemporary discourse.

>>72676473
>what are you listening to right now?
Dvořák B. 7
>who is your favourite conductor?
I dunno I only listen to chamber music
>what recitals/concerts are you going to this month?
Implying I have that kind of money

>>72683113
It's an opinion I encounter not infrequently. People say something about how they can't stand the "style" of classical singing (usually highlighting opera performers) so they don't listen to it as a whole. They appear in /classical/ from time to time. There's so much wrong with that stance that it's difficult to know where to start
>>72683356
>implying it's expensive to go to classical concerts

>>72683464
>>implying it's expensive to go to classical concerts
For you

>>72676146
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9dJxegtAx4

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>>72683356
>Implying I have that kind of money

If you're under 30 and you live either in the US or in Europe it should be extremely cheap.
In Italy I could get 25 concerts for 60 Euros, in Berlin I had an enire seasonal subscription (33 concerts) for 50 Euros.

Dunno about the US though, especially now that Trump has cut on the NEA.

>>72683480
I don't think I've ever spent more than £15 to go to a performance of classical music.

>>72683338
There is no consensus. Some composers will still only compose in the tonal system, while others completely ignore tonality (and even distinct pitches).

>>72683502
>£15
I don't remember the last time I spent that much money on anything
I don't even remember the last time I held that much money in my hand

>>72683500
>Live music
Hello 1910A.D.

>>72683537
Do you photosynthesise?

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>>72683506
Well, I was asking because I've checked on a few major competition contests, and I was not able to find any tonal music of the caliber of Beethoven's.
I decided to search outside of major composition competitions, and still ended up in failure: I still have to find a modern tonal composer who is as sophisticated and erudite as people like Beethoven was.
The only ''systematic'' information I could gather from those competitions is that tonal music is either disregarded or has virtually no worthwhile composer (which might be the case, but I'm skeptical about it). Only the former case remains: there is a set of presupponitions, some sort of zeitgeist that, to this day, equates high art with avant-gardistic art, with a series of minor implications (composers compose only for other composers, meaning that the consensus between composers is actually extremely relevant when it comes to the single piece of music; originality, novelty and innovation at the top of the value chart; disdain of traditional beauty, of things as simple a a I-IV-I chord progression, and so on: you get where I'm going).

Now, I don't think these things are necessarily bad (I'm not really advocating for their non-existence), still they seem way too universal and widespread on a multicontinental level for me to just disregard it as something that is not organized in the slightest, and most importantly, as a listener, I don't really understand these processes and intentions (which means that I can't really trust my judgement on this music, at the moment).
There must be a series of works and books that convinced MOST academic composers to devote their entire life to this sort of experimental life goal. What are these sources, that somehow tune the vast majority of serious composers in the same 'conceptual' direction?

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>>72683581
>not listening to live music

Comfirmed for not being a actual musician.
>tfw he won't ever study intonation from Italian tenors
>tfw he won't ever study intonation from the best Russian piano virtuosos
>tfw he won't ever study phrasing from the best German violinists

It looks like you're set for a life of mediocrity, pal.

>>72683725
Concerts are an excuse for socializing you pleb. Why even move from my seat when i have countless superior recordings of any work only a click away.

>>72683581
Classical music on record is a just a poor imitation of the real thing.

>>72683506
>while others completely ignore tonality (and even distinct pitches).

What's the point of this?

>>72683674
Tonal music has been making a comeback over the part ~40 years after being generally viewed as regressive. Minimalism came along as well and posited a third route that wasn't really tonal or atonal.
The issue is that there's not much point in writing pastiche romantic music. Composers want to have a measure of individuality, so they write music that incorporates elements of the precursors and take inspiration from other composers, but there's no point trying to be Mahler mk. II musically, since Mahler probably did it better and at any rate, did it first.
Add in the fact that a lot of the reasons for which you so admire Beethoven are because he has been the focus of study and performance for the better part of two centuries, which is necessarily going to colour how you view him and his work. Plus, if you're unable to understand the "processes and intentions" of modern composers, many of whom have described their compositional processes in some depth, then I'm not sure you're really applying the same sort of thought to Beethoven's music.

I'm not denying that he was a magnificent composer, but you can't really compare him to modern composers in the same way.

There is plenty of modern tonal music (and atonal too) of a high quality out there, you just seem to be approaching it from an angle in which you are determined not to find it.

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>>72683785
>Concerts are an excuse for socializing you pleb.

Concerts are an excuse to feel the sublime and, if you're a musician, it should be an attempt to steal the musical secrets of the performer, who will, more often than not, be a virtuoso of high calibre.
You're probably just too stupid to get it, though.

>Why even move from my seat when i have countless superior recordings of any work only a click away.
First of all, I doubt you've got in your home a sound system that can rival an orchestra, meaning that you probably don't even know how a cello actually sounds like, and how its frequencies interact with the human body. You don't even know that, and you're still trying to sell your ignorance as the highest form of patrician-ship there is.

You may as well consider yourself deaf.

>>72683725
>>72683915
Oh hey, it's the loser who cried for 5 hours about being called a gorilla.

>>72683674
John Cage - Silence

also the collective writings of:
Harry Partch
Pierre Boulez
Karlheinz Stockhausen

>>72683785
Whilst I am sympathetic to this view (and held it for a long time), the other guy is right: there is something about a live performance that is lost via recording. Of course it does mean that I have to sit through some interpretations with which I disagree, and performers who aren't as good as the GOATs, but as an experience it is still worth it. Plus it encourages you to encounter new interpretations of pieces which is a worthwhile outcome anyway.
And there's nothing wrong with the socialising aspect too, so long as it doesn't detract from the musical aspect. I met a previous gf at a concert series that we were both attending, and we could enjoy the concert together, discuss the music and interpretation over a drink afterwards and then go have sex. Wouldn't have had that if I had decided that the performance of Schubert's Piano Trio no. 2 in the first concert wouldn't be as good as recordings I had on my computer.

>>72683879
>but there's no point trying to be Mahler mk
I wasn't really implying it.
Let's put it this way: Mozart took the minuet in stil galant, and elevated it to his piano concertos. In the end it was ''Mozart'', but dissect it enough and you'll return to that genre.
You can do the same with Beethoven: dissect what sounds like ''Beethoven'' enough and you'll end up with some popular German songs. With Bach you'll end up with a invention for students, and so on.
Now, my impression is that these guys, starting from completely different aesthetics and philosophies (think about for example, Bach would have not approved of Mozart music for its ingenuity and it's almost fake happiness; in the same way Mozart would have been puzzled by Beethoven's music, for it went against all of its aesthetic beliefs) all did the same exact thing. They took a small set of very different conventions, and elevated it as much as possible.
In this sense, when I say that I can't find any tonal composer of the caliber of Beethoven, what I mean is that I've found no composer who, on his own terms, was able to trascend as much as Beethoven did in his own terms. I'm not implying that people should return to a common practice conventional harmony, nor I have any interest in hearing anything like that.
And at the same time I really can't see how tonality means that you'll inevitably end up referencing old composers, if anything this century showed me quite the opposite: for about 80 years unskilled musicians picked up instruments and, surprisingly, while using the most basic components of harmony and melody they were able to reach sonorities, moods, emotions, sensations, and concepts that had no point of reference in the classical tradition: although I really can't see him as nothing more than a minor artist, Jimi Hendrix sounded like nothing else, and he would have sounded like nothing else even in a more traditional, non electrical formation.
Isn't this a giant red flag in favour of tonality?

>>72683915
Nothing compares to the comfyness and concentration solitary listening can offer. Are you an orchestra musician (trained monkey)? Those do the most hardcore shilling of their trade, with excuses similar to yours.

Point remains: why spent effort, time and money on a sub-par musical experience. Even the performers cant give their best when they are paraded like circus animals.

>>72683867
exploration of timbres and other aspects of music neglected by common practice era tonality.

It's why composers like Stravinsky and Varèse started to develop rhythm in a more complex way than their predecessors.

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>>72676473
>what are you listening to right now?
pic related
>who is your favourite conductor?
Klemperer
>what recitals/concerts are you going to this month?
none

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>>72684116
>Are you an orchestra musician (trained monkey)?
lol

>Point remains: why spent effort, time and money on a sub-par musical experience.
Because, to this day, you literally don't know how a row of cellos actually sound like. Do you think I'm the one taking compromises here? You're the guy here who has never experienced the sheer power of a brass section to its entire extent.

Do you think that having people around you is a bigger compromise when compared to the fact that you've never heard how these instruments actually sound like, and how they're frequencies actually interact with the human body (which is something that is accounted by every composer worth their salt)?

It's like shilling for translated poetry.

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>>72676473
>what are you listening to right now?
I am continuing my 'study' of Charles Koechlin's music, which I like more the more of I listen to. But then again the man practically wrote music for me -- his music is a patchwork / summary of post-Debussy styles.

Oh, and speaking of Bach --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RdrdSRDW4Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Agoy39K_g1k

>who is your favourite conductor?
I don't have one. I only have preferred conductors for certain composers / works. Broadly, I am almost fully on board the old recordings meme. Knappertsbusch, Monteux, Klemperer, Böhm, Ornandy, Toscanini, Furtwängler, Reiner, Celibidache etc.

>what recitals/concerts are you going to this month?
Going next Sunday. Toru Takemitsu's Nostalghia, Max Bruch's Violin Concerto #1 and Brahms' 4th.

This question might sound silly but can i appreciate classical as much if i was a jazz musician?

>>72684375
You can appreciate classical if you never touched an instrument before.

>>72684394
Not fully, though.

For the uneducated listeners on /classical/: you're missing 99% of it.

>>72676473
> Ravel - "La Valse"
> Bernstein
> Barber Violin Concerto and Dvorak 7

>>72684195
>Do you think that having people around you is a bigger compromise when compared to the fact that you've never heard how these instruments actually sound like
Yes it is for me.

>actually sound like.
>sheer power of a brass section
>frequencies actually interact with the human body
You sound like an audiophile ( id est, impressionable fool). You are in love with the sound not the music. I'm listening to Ferrier's 1949 Kidertotenlieder on YouTube, on headphones. I wouldn't trade the emotion that is conveyed with any modern performance.
Live concerts are a remnant of a past era

>>72684449
Dvorak 7 is great, although I went to a student orchestra performance of it with a pretty awful horn section which made me realise how important the horns are in that symphony.

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>>72684078
Yes, the culture of 'perfectibility' is dead. You're incoherent about it, but you want small incremental changes within the same musical tradition. New verses in an old language. That approach to music is virtually gone now. We live in a culture that strives for perpetual 'innovation'. New verses in new languages. (Not the anon you were talking to by the way; but we've had this discussion before in /classical/; it seems to be a recurrent meme.)

>>72684116
Without the existence of those 'subpar' concerts you would never have your cream of the crop. There has to be a pool of musicians from which the best will slowly rise to the top. If everyone had your attitude, music would not exist. Not acoustic music anyway.

>>72684466
>You sound like an audiophile

>the most basic appreciation for how the music actually sounds means that you're an audiophile
>the aknowledgement of the most basic effect a instrument like a cello will produce means that you're a audiophile (id est, impressionable fool).

I guess you're a grammar nazi, since you clearly possess the most basic grammar tools available to human beings. What a impressionable fool: when it comes to books, a real conoisseur limits himself to Wikipedia's summaries.

>I wouldn't trade the emotion that is conveyed with any modern performance.
Well, first of all you've got no idea of how modern performances sound like: you've already admitted it.
Secondly, I would trade the emotion conveyed by that record: you know with what? With the actual fucking performance.
Do you want me to believe that if you had the chance to see Ferrier singing live Kindertotenlieder tomorrow you would still stick with the badly recorded version?

>>72684466
>youtube
heeheehee

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>>72684408
>Not fully, though.

>>72684598
>New verses in a old language.
What's wrong with the language being old, as long as it is treated in truly original ways? For example, why would such an example not work with literature, instead of music?

>We live in a culture that strives for perpetual 'innovation'.
Why this is coherent but striving for older goals, such as beauty and the sublime (to take as an example values that have been followed for centuries, not that I want them to be prevalent and omnipresent again), is coherent? Keep in mind that I'm not saying that one way is better than the other: rather I'm saying that theyre both equally arbitrary, and they're both based on prejudices (the new prejudices being the act of valuing more than anything else the objectivity of innovation).
Yet these prejudices do not tell me anything about the quality and value of the music itself
Whenever I think about what a modern composer could do, I do not really think about Beethoven, instead I think about Ravel. He comes very late in the game (when he was writing Le Tombeau de Couperin, Pierrot Lunaire was 4 years old), and, with the power of a style that was his own, he conquered the hearth of the public and the academics worldwide, and kept doing so 100 years now. It was a completely independent process that had no similar point of reference in our canon: he just made it up.
Now, assuming that there is a Universe 2 in which Ravel is born in 2010, and at some point he writes the same exact compositions he wrote in Universe 1: in this new Unvierse would these composition be worth ''less''? Would they be less remarkable? Was the innovation the core of this music?
If the answer is ''no, it would be just as valuable'', then why should I be fine with the collectivized prejudices that would see artists such as Ravel ostracized by academia? More generally: why is innovation the core of this century? Only beacuse it can be proved?

>but we've had this discussion before
It wasn't me.

>>72684643
Shit analogy desu. A better one: You care about the paper quality, the font used, the hardback cut, but you have little care for the actual book.

>Do you want me to believe that if you had the chance to see Ferrier singing live Kindertotenlieder tomorrow you would still stick with the badly recorded version?
Maybe i'd go if i were to sole attendant. Just admit it, you are like the audiophile crowd that care autistically about the sound, not the music. You will never understand what you hear as long as you stay fixated on a surface level.

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>Post yfw you realized that this videogame music is much better than any classical composition


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpI-KeK-PQg

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>>72684375
It depends. You'll have to unlearn how you approach music. Classical and jazz have very different aesthetic ideals.

Classical composers strive for 'finality' in their artworks / musical designs. Every detail must be well wrought. Even when the designs begin from improvisation (impromptu, fantasy genres) a composer will rework them until they acquire 'finality' -- their rough edges chiseled away; the rough sketch made into a full engraving (pic related, in musical form). And classical performers strive for the material realisation of that design.

Jazz is speed painting. It's that guy on the street doing pencil sketches and leaving it at that.

>>72684939
>Shit analogy desu. A better one: You care about the paper quality, the font used, the hardback cut, but you have little care for the actual book.

Shitty analogy.
You're comparing only the material that are being used, instead I'm stating that the auditory aspects of these instruments are part of the musical language in itself.
Paper being of poor quality won't affect in any sensible way the comprehension of the intricacies of the masterpieces you're listening to.

>Just admit it, you are like the audiophile crowd that care autistically about the sound, not the music.
First of all, I don't really get why you think that caring about the sound, timbres and frequencies when listening to music is a bad thing. Is caring about the rhythm when reading poetry inherently bad? These were all things that were accounted by the composer himself, meaning that you're missing on them, meaning that you're getting a piece of art that is not complete (unless you've got in your house a top-tier sound system, which I doubt).

>You will never understand what you hear as long as you stay fixated on a surface level.
You're the one staying on a surface level, since you're appreciation inherently excludes some of the most basic and fundamental aspects of music. That's the difference between us: you're reading only for the plot, I'm reading also for the plot.

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>>72676473
>what are you listening to right now?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GQImFmXzPQ
>who is your favourite conductor?
Carmignola
>what recitals/concerts are you going to this month?
None.

>>72684912
I'm not pronouncing on which culture is better. I'm merely describing the situation to you in more abstract terms. (The other anon is hinting at the same thing.)

>What's wrong with the language being old, as long as it is treated in truly original ways?
Define "truly original". Every snowflake is unique when you think about it. You have to have to be discriminating about it.

>>72685057
You overestimate what is lost in a recording and underestimate the harmful impact almost all aspects of a live performance have on the enjoyment of music.

Sitting on your seat all proper like a good cuck, having to conform to every silly convention for negligible gains VS the absolute perfect concentration a solitary listening session can offer

>>72685271
>having to conform to every silly convention
lmao, what do you want to do that is so scandalous?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ppiWEdors4
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quU8c6TyK5Q

>>72685369
He's probably just shy and rationalising it. He's stressed out around other people so he loses focus.
I'm shy too, and I can emphasise with that. It's just that my desire to see recitals in the flesh overpowers my shyness.
I'd recon a supermajority of posters are the same as the anon who started this chain >>72677152 but in much less extreme ways.

at which age did you guys start learning to play your classical instruments?

>>72685663
4

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>>72685557
>He's stressed out around other people so he loses focus.
This desu

>>72685663
Started piano and cello at 7 (dropped cello because I had to move and couldn't find a new cello teacher)
Started clarinet at 9
Started singing (formally) at 18 - now 23 and voice is my main instrument.

>>72685925
>dropped cello because I had to move and couldn't find a new cello teacher

Couldn't you learn alone?

>>72685925
>and voice is my main instrument.
I bet it is.

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/classical/ is full of walls of text about music!

>>72686139
I had to move to the arse-end of the middle-east because of my dad working in the oil industry, so it wasn't really much of an option, never mind getting a cello over there in one piece.

>>72685225
>Define "truly original". Every snowflake is unique when you think about it. You have to have to be discriminating about it.

What about Ravel, as an example?
He did not invent anything in particular (and here I'm talking about that kind of systematic innovation that has been the core of the avantgards of the XX century), he has been original only in his style, still even the most radical academics will have something nice to say about him, and most musicians and critics in general will hail him as a great composer, even if he was ccomposing most of his music after the second Viennese School (which means that his musical philosophy wa already outdated, something that was typical in the XIX century and basically unheard of in his century).

>>72686139
>properly learning a classical instrument by yourself, when you're 7

This happenss only with meme instruments like guitars and drums.

>>72686330
Do you play professionally?

>>72686504
I've just finished a degree (in modern languages), going to spend next year as a lay clerk in a cathedral and then will probably apply for further studies at a conservatoire.

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>>72686573
Wow, you have a good life, I'm fucking garbage in everything I do, including music

>>72686486
I play piano and everything I learned I learned alone and above the age of 24. Had to get rid of garbage bad teachers would tell me, took more time than learning it the right way immediately

>>72686710
Are you an actual virtuoso? Can you sightread a Prokofiev sonata?

If you can't, thanks for proving my point.

>>72686730
>sightread Prokofiev sonata

I pity you when that's what you're looking for in a musician

>>72686817
It's a necessary condition, not a sufficient one.
The fact that you dodged the question proves his point.

>>72686667
It's alright, I've got an awful imposter complex, which leads me to worrying that I'll just end up as a failure because I'll be out of my depth when it comes to making a career of it. Plus I don't particularly like performing to an audience; not because I get anxiety or anything, but because I'm very selfish and like to sing because it makes me happy, not because I want an audience to enjoy it. At least in the religious sphere, you can sort of escape that, so I'm looking forward to that next year.

>>72686817
>being very skilled in something means that you will lose your expression, creativity and art
>he thinks that competence and creativity are mutually exclusive

Someone here is boiling in ressentiment.

>>72686826
it's actually not a necessary condition, maybe it was in the 19th century when sightreading was common. I think having great sightreading skills often (not always) develop due to a superficial approach to music

>>72686817
Can you even play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star decently?

>>72686852
I never said that. But expression, creativity and art make a musician, not being able to read fluently. Because that doesn't give you anything to enjoy as listener

>>72686945
That makes sense if you're fine with playing beautifully 30 pianistic pieces for the rest of your life.
For anything past that you will need that kind of systematic virtuosism that comes only from guided, formal training.
You're right, this is not something that spectators will notice during a performance, but it's still infinitely important for the pianist's personal path.

Once I've read an anon conveying this concept here on classical. He said something along the lines of "you can learn how to play a handful of pieces, or you can learn how to play all of them".

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>>72686335
Ravel was a 'perfecter', an 'innovator in minutiae'. He was one who continued work along the lines begun by others (like Debussy). Not "truly original" in my book.

>basically unheard of in his century
Not true. In fact, there are no 'innovators' in this century. The era of great changes is spent. The yearning for paradigm shifts only lingers out of inertia (there are still people alive who witnessed great changes). In time the culture will refocus itself on seeking 'perfection' not 'innovation'.

Right now, your problem is that, on the one hand, meaningful work on the strain of music you like most has been largely abandoned (that is, since only mediocre composers still bother with it, the changes they bring are too minute even for you), and on the other hand, that you're spoiled for choices when it comes to its alternatives.

Anyway, I'm just repeating myself now and I don't like repeating myself.

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So, It's been 2 years now that I'm playing the violin and my teacher says that we shouldn't use the traditional shoulder rests and instead use a kitchen sponge, but I just feel a little ridiculous playing with a sponge as the shoulder rest. Should I listen to my teacher? He says that the good violinists don't even use shoulder rests at all.

>>72687020
sure, but it hasn't anything to do with sightreading. Sightreading is a skill that develops when you often forced to play new pieces under pressure, for example when you're accompanying choires or singers. It has nothing to do with technical skills which (in my opinion) always have to be linked to musical expression. Sightreading can develop and probably will to a certain point, but it's no necessity

>>72687048
sounds like he's trying to meme you into HIPsterism.
I've never learnt the violin, but that does sound a bit suspect to me

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>>72687048
Get rid of the shoulder rest altogether.

>>72687020
>you can learn how to play a handful of pieces, or you can learn how to play all of them

that is dangerous bullshit. if it were true it would mean that no piece can confront you with completely new musical ideas, and yes, you can sightread only what you understand on sight, not what your eyes can process

>>72687048
Your teacher is an imbecile.

>>72687086
>sightreading skills are not important for pianists
It's literally the main factor, alongside memory, that decides how much music you can learn in one lifetime. It's probably the most efficient skill available to musicians.
This does not imply an improvement in the performance, rather it implies how fast is a pianist when it comes to learn a new piece (basically cutting on those tedious hours of memorization, that bear really no relevance in the performance itself: basically wasted time that you have to waste in order to get access to the important parts of the piece). It's more of a "behind the scenes" skill.

A listener can discard this skill as irrelevant, a pianist can't, and this is what matter, since we were talking about the ideal education of a pianist (and not about the petty presuppositions of the public).

>if it were true it would mean that no piece can confront you with completely new musical ideas, and yes, you can sightread only what you understand on sight, not what your eyes can process
This applies to post-WWII pieces who do not use any sort of traditional scoring. If you can sightread Schumann you can also sightread Reger, Bach, Cimarosa and Haydn.

>>72687280
to your first point: sightreading means playing a new piece in the right tempo and the right dynamics; not being able to do this doesn't mean that you have to decipher every piece for hours. That's what I mean with sightreading skills that are not a necessity

To your second point: I disagree, because every Beethoven, Schumann of Reger piece that you don't know has some parts that will surprise you, that break the rules. And that's my whole point: going slowly over such parts or repeating them carefully means you're not sightreading anymore, but it doesn't mean that you have a musical shortcoming.

>>72687159
I see, so there's no negatives in using the normal shoulder rest?

Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M39v5inUujQ

>>72687459

Vitali

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4B1ifcWa9o

>>72687423
But there are positives to it. Like your health (more comfort = less stress on your body). Shoulder rests were not invented because someone just thought they'd look good on a violin or because they just wanted to add a new device to it for the hell of it. They're actually useful.

>>72687521
>>72687423
The main thing to remember is why the shoulder rest is used: to make it easier for you to hold and play the violin. Everyone's body is different. Do you think it inconveniences you? Ditch it.
Kitchen sponges tied with rubber bands are themselves a type of rest.
Whatever works for you, use that.

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>/classical/ hates "bad" composers
>shills Debussy though

Explain yourselves

>>72687754
Are you, by any chance, implying that Debussy is a bad composer?

>>72687773
indeed

>>72687754
/classical/ is always right

>>72687387
>not being able to do this doesn't mean that you have to decipher every piece for hours.
It actually does, since you are still not able to play it.
If your sightreading skills are on point, you can immediatly jump into fingering, interpretation, polishing. If they are not you will have to undertake some tedious work of memorization and calibration of the score. Sightreading means that you're cutting most of that wasted time that goes into the preparation for the study, eather than the study itself.

>going slowly over such parts or repeating them carefully means you're not sightreading anymore, but it doesn't mean that you have a musical shortcoming.
It means that there is a more capable version of yourself in some other universe who started studying the piece immediatly, instead of having to assemble it together, bar by bar.
This DOES matter when you're spending most of your time (as you should, when you're not concerting) either learning repertoire or polishing it. And let me re-state it: sightreading bears no influence on the invidivual performance, but holds the upmost importance when you're looking at a pianist's entire career, since it's one of the main factors that will decide how much music you will get to play in your lifetime.

To discard sightreading as a pianist is a death sentence (in fact I can't think of any major piano pedagogue who has ever argued for such a thing: a trait of musicianship is the perfect synchrony between the musician and the score itself, the less barriers between them, the better)

>>72687844
>Can't into debussy

Ultra pleb

>>72687976
In which pieces Debussy uses counterpoint the most?

>>72687754
>>72687844
you have shit taste desu

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>>72687513

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SPV7Je5InE

>>72688027
As if that were in any way relevant. (In his fully orchestrated pieces, of course.)
If that is what you ask about Debussy, you have understood not one iota of his music.

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>>72687754
>debussy is a bad composer
no

>>72687754
He's not as bad as Chopin though

>>72688290
My cousin plays the piano, and I found a video of him playing lidzs campanella on a public piano in the metro. Can you guys rate him?
https://youtu.be/GkVuvpj3gsE?t=11m2s
>min. 11.00

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>>72688356
It's Liszt and it's La Campanella and why the fuck are you quoting me?

>>72688290
Nice argumentum ad meme. Unfortunately for you, Debussy is not just a good composer, he's one of the best ever.

>>72688190
I'm not that guy, I was just curious about it. I've listened to a great deal of Debussy's music and I've never herd any sign of virtuosity when it came to counterpoint: I was just wondering wether he actually ever employed in his music.

>>72688460
Why?

>>72688481
Once again, If that is what you ask about Debussy, you have understood not one iota of his music. Debussy practically wiped his ass with sheets of paper from Gradus ad Parnassum. He strived for a system of music beyond that which he inherited from the likes of Palestrina. He treated traditional counterpoint as just as means to an end (multiple layers of music that are in 'harmony' -- harmony in an extended, general sense) not an end form in itself. He did not consider only relations between pitches, but all the qualities of the sounds involved in the creation of music.

>>72688773
He laid the foundation for a wholly new language in European art music.

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>I like impressionism

Could anyone upload Rzewski Plays Rzewski?

>>72689144
No u

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The gorgeous Renee Fleming

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The lovely Margriet Buchberger

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The lovely Hermann Scherchen.

Petzold

Minimalism is only good for studying and driving.

Prove me wrong.

>>72691529
Minimalism is good for nothing because renaissance is best for studying and classical is best for driving.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3F_n7iQvLA

Is this what people mean by 'romantic style' piano playing? I don't normally hear Mozart's keyboard works played like this

>>72691820
Sure, though Yudina is about as "extreme" as they come.

>>72691855
That's probably why it leapt out at me. I was already aware of how Bach played by Russian pianists of a certain vintage tends to sound, but with Mozart I usually listen to the duo piano works and not the solo

It would be really nice to know which "bad" words I'm saying in my post that's causing a """connection error"""

It's terribly wonderful when you write up a paragraph or two only to have this bullshit pulled on you.

Fucking Hiroshima.

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Are these good composers ?

Fun improvisation on a Japanese folk-tune:
https://f.lewd.se/IFTXx6.mp3

>>72692523
No.
Listen to Mozart

>>72692692
I will in 3 hours. Mega has cucked me on downloads for now

>>72676054
mommy give succ ;^)

Scelsi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfTjz6emd7c

>>72689144
not even debussy liked the term impressionism

M E D T N E R
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ME05uEzfjs

Fux
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V3urb7ekZ4

Hey Fischerfag, there's a Mahler 3 available for you on israbox.

>>72692081
It did this to me as well. Just copy&paste your post in the new reply box at the top of the trhead, not this side one you get when you click a post. You will have to solve another captcha after you click post. Hiro's spam detection mechanism is not working well lately.

>>72692523
>Brahms
Great
>Chopin
Alright
>Tyler, the Creator
Terrible.
>Beethoven
Phenomenal.

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Wtf this dude is actually pretty good why didn't you guys tell me

>>72694080
Holy shit, it's gonna be amazing

>>72694080
Can you upload? Israbox doesn't seem to work for me

>>72694885
We did. Strauss gets name-dropped pretty often here.

Guys, I just can't enjoy Mahler at all. I tried to sit down and listen to Symphony No. 8, but it is just so fucking boring. I'm sure it would be a million times better to see it played by a live orchestra + vocalists. But fuck, after a while the "omg so epic XD" idea gets old. What do? Is Mahler just an average composer?

>>72695093
It's .pw

And, no, because I'm going to bed and it'll likely be a dead link when I get up.

Isra links get taken down super fast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cYICGFgiTk

>>72695251
Then don't focus on the "omg so epic," because the scale of the symphony isn't the point. What it is, though, is probably the best Bach/Biber mashup in a romantic guise. Look at the orchestration. Look at the intense counterpoint. etc. I would argue, though, that the 8th is not the place to start with him. Oddly enough, it's a work which isn't superbly received among Mahler aficionado's (the "middle-class" ones, anyway) which is ironic considering it, along with the 2nd symphony, were the only two well received works in his lifetime.

Read Schoenberg's Style and Idea - specifically the article on Mahler where he talks about the scale and what some deem as over-emotional bombast. He then does some analyzing on some of his works which might be of interest. He makes a good case for him.

Also, you could just not do any of that and listen to any other composer which you may enjoy. Mahler could simply just not be for you.

>>72695345
r/classicalmuzak are currently doing a poll of Mahler symphonies to determine the "best" and 8 was the first one voted out. It says a great deal about the place.

>>72695251
I would at least attempt the 2nd symphony before you write him off completely. The first movement is one of the most gripping movements he's ever written and the final movement is transcendent, although admittedly about half of its massive 38 minute length is meandering. The song movement is beautiful too (and short).

>>72695251
I regard 4 as the least meandering of Mahler's symphonies. I used to have a hard time enjoying him too, but over the past 3 months I've listened to his music with fresh ears and I've really been enjoying it. There are still moments that I think he writes 15 minutes of music that could be pared down to 7 without much loss, but sometimes it's part of the effect.

Also try Des Knaben Wunderhorn (the orchestrated version); it strikes a nice balance between self-contained songs that don't last for more than ~10 minutes with Mahler's compositional idiom. Plus he drew heavily on the collection for his early symphonies.

>>72695447
This. The 4th is the symphony that got me into Mahler. It's the one that sticks closest to the Haydn-ean model.

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>no one posted Anna Maria Alberghetti yet
for fuck's sake /classical/ she was a 10/10 babe in her youth.

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>>72695700
>warm and willing

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>last reply one hour and 27 minutes ago
no! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TouKF4-vHFY

sup /classical/

i am a complete newfag in terms of classical music but i'm just looking for some nice soothing piano recordings, i love Arthur Rubinstein's recordings of Chopin nocturnes but that's about all

can you recommend me anything?

oh and and I kinda like Max Richter but i know that's pleb af so if you can just hit me up with anything please

>>72695405
Which one would you vote out first?

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Glenn Gould is overrated and boring. Prove me wrong.

Pro tip: you can't.

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>>72696486
let's get this out of the way:
>Shitpin's nocturnes

>can you recommend me anything?
start with Beethoven's piano sonatas for a taste of what good piano music actually sounds like.
>Rubinstein
how about Brendel or Gilels instead.

>>72696486
>i'm just looking for some nice soothing piano recordings
Classical music is meant to be actively listened to. It. There's few things /classical/ hates more than plebs who use it as background noise.

>>72696613
nah it's not gonna be a background noise i got other shit for that

>>72696613
>Classical music is meant to be actively listened to
Says who? You? Why couldn't I put some classical in the background when I'm studying? It's pretty much the best type of music for that purpose. Nice bait nonetheless, made me type all this shit.

>>72696748
you have never listened to classical in your life
gtfo

>>72696748
>I use the most beautiful and complex music available to me as muzak that I ignore while I'm doing something else

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>>72696748
> I put some classical in the background when I'm studying
> It's pretty much the best type of music for that purpose

>>72696827
I don't ignore it, I listen to it at the same time and it helps me focus. That being said, this is not the only way I listen to classical music, I'm just pointing out that you can also listen to it like this. Acting like there aren't multiple ways to listen to all kinds of music is literal retardation, and assuming that all people follow your self-made rules is equally dumb. All I see is greentext and meaningless insults without any proper arguments.

>>72696748
You can do whatever the fuck you want. You're an absolute plebeian though. If you're not paying attention to classical while it's playing you might as well not listen to it at all.

Talk about casting pearls before swine...

>>72696899
>I don't ignore it
Yes you do.

>>72695345
>>72695447
>>72695411

Cheers bros, I'm listening to the 2nd symphony now, and its definitely clearer in its presentation of the musical themes and ideas. To me it feels far more subtle. I'm kinda having trouble looking past the scale of the 8th, so maybe a look into Style and Idea might be a good idea - I've been meaning to read it for a while anyway.
I'll check out the 4th later on.

>>72696899
>self-made rules
Bitch that's what the music was made for: active listening. It's music you go to a concert hall for and offer your undivided attention to. Unless what you're listening to while you're studying is simple, nonintrusive stuff that was written precisely for that purpose (examples being divertimento, tafelmusik, and nocturne genres) you have no reason to complain for being educated.

>>72696512
Probably 1.

is this /sperglord/ general?

>>72682110
yo

>>72697143
>It's music you go to a concert hall for and offer your undivided attention to.
Ideology and historically inaccurate.

>>72696532
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqtJvnth3YI

>>72697745
how can anyone h8 this guy
/bleep/ needs to know about him.

>>72697450
no, that's the dg general

>>72696532
Being picked up by normies was the worst thing to happen to Gould. He would have been /ourguy/ otherwise

>>72697809
>normie
I want normalfags to leave.

>>72697809
Yeah I bet he hated all that money

>>72696532
You right. I love the Goldberg variations, but don't even like his versions. Too much Glenn not enough Sebastian.

Who was in the wrong here?
>>2787230

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>>72697916
I can relate.

>>72697930
You apparently

>>72697948
back to dicksucking

>>72697951
My bad senpai
>>/his/2787230

>>72697973
You need to use >>> to cross-board my man
>>>/his/2787230

>>72697930
>>72697973
>>72697987

/lit/, it's those fags from /lit/
>>>/lit/9488490

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>>72697987
>>72698012
This puzzle got a whole lot more complicated. The obvious first guess would be that this is one of our guys. But maybe that's exactly what the criminal wants us to believe.

Music for this feel?

>>72676473
>Scott McAllister's "Black Dog"
>Dudamel
>Haydn's Creation, Wind Ensemble Concert (I performed in) with Bacchanale, Ride of the Valkyries, and all of Scheherazade, Duet recital later in the month with me and my gf performing some of Bruch's 8 pieces for Clarinet and Viola

i saw ABC Classical use tfw on their facebook page

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>>72696748
>I'm a brainlet and I'm proud of it!

>>72699163
>Dudamel
Care to explain yourself?

>>72700212
He obviously loves the dancing.

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guyz I am having a panic attack please help me identify this recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih9PCAd2YYQ
some of the voices soud familiar but I don't remember who they are

>>72700187
>calls someone a brainlet
>posts shittiest 2hu
Really jogs my noggin...

>>72700515
Says right in the comments Pavarotti and Mehta

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>>72700780
wow yes, itwas Pavarotti that sounded familiar
wait so I'll have to disable my script that hides youtube comments from now on?
omfg.... i've been owned by youtube comments

(thank you friend)

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Pretty great
Like a more counterpoint obsessed Debussy mixed in with Faure

>>72701096
If you like it, try his 3rd violin sonata and his Impressions. Two of the best works penned for violin and piano, in my opinion.

It's a shame, though, that no one seems to play it with the kind of swagger that Enescu had. If only I could go back in time and make him record more.

>>72692710
>He doesn't MegaDownloader
You must enjoy being a cuck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugv_o2XsJoE

>>72676146
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RczHCYuyOH8

>>72679802
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UllUmPEZyQk

from annees de pelarinage

>>72685480
>that pic
where did you get that?

>>72702216
Gensokyo from Aya

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>>72696748
>It's pretty much the best type of music for that purpose

>>72695700
>>72695734
I am a man in heat.

What's so good about Stravinsky?

>>72703691
Which period? Stravinsky wrote some pretty varied music. His early ballets are the best. Funky melodies, complex rhythmic language, cool orchestration.

Man, Purcell's operas are fucking awesome.

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>>72704096
The Fairy Queen is so underrated

>>72703813
I don't see anything more than just ok or good on anything he ever composed.

>>72704170
Too bad.

>>72703813
Where should I start with them?

>>72704482
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHmk7yccvws

>>72704482

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNAmF6vQTZk

lads...

check this out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnCvkLT5g5s

Something strange is happening to me, yesterday I was introduced to a couple, they're really nice people and all, but when the conversation started to be about music they revelead that they are really fans of rock music and told me about some of the bands they like. I was already very uncomfortable with all that but decided to ask what they thought about classical music they answered that they're "not into it" and that they find it "boring". I then proceeded to explain to them how rock shouldn't even be considered music at all because it's pretty bad and explained a little about classical music and what makes it great and they just said something like "Yeah, nice" and suddenly changed the subject.

I will meet them again tomorrow but don't know if I should cut ties completely and ignore them. I'm a little conflicted right now.

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>>72706299

>>72704096
>>72704115
very good opinions

>>72706299
were you going to be their bull?

The Wanderer fantasy is so good

>>72683085
People who say that are usually more open to choral and lieder atleast. Many of them just seem to hate long and grand operas.

>>72683991
>cage
>serious composer
....

>>72687754
>/classical/ hates "bad" composers
Which bad composer? Are you the guy whose mad people were shitting on Satie?

>>72696486
Try Glenn Gould's Goldberg Variations.

>>72697450
No, this is /Dense walls of text/ General.

redpill me on Messiaen.

>>72707809
>muh birds
>muh Catholicism
>muh St Francis

>>72707867
What about his music?

rec me some pieces to cry to

>>72708162
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPV9tfJNOvY

>>72708162
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T7s2toFVRM

>>72707269
lol regardless of whether or not you consider him a >serious composer, his ideas on music influenced almost every composer in the 20th century for better or worse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xHIhcstxUM
Best piece know to mans ear prove me wrong

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>>72687754
>/classical/ used to hate Plebussy, french shitters and memetruckers at some point.

>>72709689
>CLT dressed up as the world's gayest super hero
I forgot about that image lel

>>72689144
>>72693077
you would understand it if your parents didnt beat you for the extent of your childhood
fuck you

>>72693077
impressionism was a broad term for that decade of art in france. Debussy not liking the term is a hipster meme for french impressionist they all believed they were diffrent and didnt want their art to all be labeled the same. This for the likes of ravel and debussy, monet and degas.

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>>72709800
No no no, Super Patrician that is!

Haydn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gZcEVzk-go

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>>72709931
Whatever you say Richard.

Someone suggested this piece yesterday, thank you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCM08gVszRM

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another truly amazing cover

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>>72711030
Sabata always had some crazy album covers

Weill quartet bump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLu6b4iGE1I

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC2oaSAToRE

Can someone give a recommendation to an absolute beginner? I want to appreciate classical music.

What are some online sources for the sort of literature composers from the 1700s / 1800s would have learned from? Surely someone wrote a book.

>>72708028
>/classical/
>music

>>72684972
Dark Souls has three good pieces

This one, Gwyn, and Abyss Watchers theme

everything else is just le ebin choir music for fedoras

>>72712139
>I like aggressive music
Stravinsky: Le sacre du printemps
Bartok: The Miraculous Mandarin
>I like melancholic music
Ravel: Piano Concerto in G (specifically movement 2)
Ravel: Pavane pour une infante defunte
Chopin: Nocturnes, all of them
>I like happy music
Beethoven: Symphony 7
Shostakovich: Piano Concerto 2
>I like post-rock that takes 30 minutes to build to a climax
Mahler: Symphony 2

>>72712620
counterpoint

>>72704096
Was listening to Currentzis in Dido the other day. Was a pretty good recording, full of zest and drama. He and his orchestra really know how to lay out an 'attack,' as it were. The singing was fairly good too, but holy hell the diction was trash. However, the only other two recordings that I've heard of the piece were fairly gutless, even if the singer's diction was better. The Armonico Consort, for instance. Now that was a strange performance. If I'm not wrong, it was one-instrument-per-part, which, while leading itself to being nice and transparent, frankly sounded a bit strange, and the singers were wobbly and hard on the ears

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>>72709689
/classical/ used to be plebeian as fuck at some point then.

Debussy bump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRjllL-MP0U

>>72713879
great piece

wish I was gud enough to make stuff like this :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey5GItze-BY

>>72713595
>a weeb defending debussy

not surprised

>>72714257
Feel free to argue that Debussy is not a great composer. Your failure is bound to be worth it, if for nothing else but the hilarity of the attempt.

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>>72713879
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiJMwUYqPZM
Please post something that doesn't make the French seem creatively bankrupt next time.

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>>72714356
>shits on debussy
>memeposts mediocrity from a literally who

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>>72714484
>literally outsting himself as a moronic dilettante

>>72714499
(You)
/pity

>>72714356
lmao this is garbage

>weeb

it all makes sense

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>>72714356
stop posting anytime

>>72713879
This is so bad that I'm gonna turn it into vaporwave

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>>72714730

don't mind me I'm just pushing the thread into the archive
(next OP will be anime)

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>>72714916

>>72714936

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo8zGBrp8CY

>>72715002
>>72715002

>>72715014
--h >e< h--
--h >e< h--
--h >e< h--
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>72715014
Oh, my Lord!

>>72685052
/classical/ in a nutshell

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>>72715014
is this what they call taking down two birds with one stone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSVk4AnOwvw [Embed]

do you guys like Rossini?
La Gazza Ladra is great

>>72715014
I underestimated /classical/'s autism.

new thread >>72715229
new thread >>72715229
new thread >>72715229

(I gave you a chance to scoop me but you didn't take it)

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>/classical/ hates Chopin now

When did this happen?

>>72714244
Me too. What should we learn, guys? I only went through a half of Fux's counterpoint.