>>61795995 I like his 60s stuff, but I haven't been able to get into any of his later stuff aside from a song or two. I think his prudishness about tight musicians really hurt him later on. The sloppiness helped the unpredictability and charm of his earlier stuff, plus it made his guitar playing seem really great amidst it. The later stuff is plagued by rigidity and terrible eighties production.
>>61796032 this it's like he felt compelled to use music to critique/make fun of music. I know if I was born a couple of decades earlier I would have liked him simply because I would've felt like I was in on the joke. now I just see him as a cynical jerk who couldn't resist constructing straw men to decapitate with his music instead of sublimating his vitriol towards less resentful, more musically inventive ends.
>>61796670 not enough for me to put up with his grotesque annoyances and savage bitterness. it's like he sabotaged his entire output on purpose (for what reason I can't say), because his obvious talent makes it seem like it wasn't inevitable.
>>61796862 You should probs just listen to his jazz records like Hot Rats and Waka/Jawaka so. There isn't any of the sardonic lyrics or fart noises. I always think it's a shame that people can't get past the humour in his music though. He was easily one of rock's greatest innovators and an incredible composer and musician.
>>61797028 if I had to choose one, Hot Rats is the one album I'd pick. I'm playing Waka/Jawaka and it sounds fine so far, too if that sardonic bent wasn't super-important to his vision, then why'd he let it dominate nearly all of his albums? people aren't wrong in getting that impression from his work. whatever innovations he may have produced, I think his jokes eclipse them almost totally, unfortunately.
>>61795995 I think he's a good, talented musician, but for some reason I just can't connect with him. I always feel like I'm an outsider looking in on what he's doing rather than a part of it, ya know?
>>61797279 Oh of course it was important in his work. I'm not denying that. He was a cynical asshole and insulting people/crude humour was just part of his shtick.
It's just that not everyone starts frothing at the mouth when they hear him make a crude joke or insult hippie culture. The people who don't get turned off by the humour tend to hail him as a maverick who was a pioneer of the double album, prog rock, jazz fusion, music concrete in rock, independent music production, etc.
>>61795995 no he's a fucking genius his 60s/70s work is amazing but after that he kinda gets burnt out and just turns into "wake up sheeple" guy and the music suffers. but I love him and listen to his stuff everyday ariel pink payed homage to him on pom pom with plastic raincoats which is basically a cover of plastic people
>>61797672 my antipathy towards that strain in his music means he'll be perpetually underrated in my musical world. as someone that has to stifle a giggle at the phrase "hippie culture" you'd almost expect me to automatically support him, right? but it was the kids from the 60's and 70's who at least partly identified as hippie who were his main audience, wasn't it? (the same adventurous kids that were following Miles during his electric period.) he was taking their money and insulting them to their faces! (or was he striving to modify their allegiances? a few must've changed their minds from his rants, no?)
>>61795995 No Franks awesome. He produced a lot of shit but he also produced a lot of awesome stuff. Ive heard mixed reviews about his satire from people but I never minded and liked the more silly stuff on Apostrophe and Overnite Sensation. The Grand Wazoo is one of my favourite fusion albums of all time so.
>>61797964 He meant the kind of people who followed The Grateful Dead around the country and who'd attend music festivals and claim they were changing the world. He hated the psychedelic scene that came out of San Francisco and they were the sort of "hippies" he usually attacked. His fans were part of counter-culture in the 60s but he'd probably describe them as the freaks, people who weren't cool enough to go take acid at a Jefferson Airplane gig, although he was pretty clear they weren't being left out because they liked him. Hence lines like "You think we're singing about someone else". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoOwQd-1Hrg
>>61798687 it's hard to convince me that his criticism of fellow musicians isn't just jealousy of their loyal following - either wanting one as faithful, or just wanting their cash I wonder if self-identifying as counter-counter-cultural is just a species of being counter-cultural? I'm sure "The Establishment" viewed him in much the same way. and U.S. dollars work equally well, whether gotten from freaks or hippies... >a trip, a goof, gonzo, weird-for-the-sake-of-weird, abrasive, grand, scattered, a mess just a few of the descriptors that came to mind listening to that Zappa song - whew! I do not like his songs
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