>>61736022 How is it juvenile in nature? Also Kendrick is inspired and making great music. While I'm not a huge fan of Drake he certainly is original and once again while I'm not really a fan of trap rap you can't deny that it has a unique sound
Because it requires less talent than other genres. Objectively, the ideas of melody and harmony are discarded. The same thing happens in metal. Any genre which doesn't have strong melody, harmony and rhythm requires less skill than those that do.
>>61735980 Because they don't listen to it. Seriously, it's the same with metal. The people who criticize metal as "only noise" or "talentless" are usually very narrow-minded, and only listen to music that is within their comfort zone.
>>61736111 Not really because a burger without meat and cheese is by definition not a burger. Music doesn't have such rigid definitions. Also what's with all the fucking food analogies on here? Did music become food while I wasn't looking?
>>61736163 And hip-hop does have those elements, just less of them. When was the last time you heard a rap song that was literally just a guy talking over drums? Because that isn't hip-hop it's slam poetry
>>61736159 I've listened to a lot of different metal. If it has screaming then the song loses melody as screaming is atonal. Also the harmonic aspects of modern metal seems to be very weak considering half the guitar tabs are binary.
>>61736022 Nice cherry picking and generalization, bud! >>61736032 This is true. But the public image of rap has been tainted since its birth. Metalheads and rockists will shit on hip-hop until the day they die >>61736057 This. Even the "vapid" shit has interesting production, vocals, energy, or flows. DS2, one of the most hyped albums of 2015, has some genuinely beautiful and introspective moments on it whether it be from the producers or Future himself >>61736075 >the ideas of melody and harmony are discarded Yeah, but this is patrician when noise does it, isn't it? And that's besides the point, hip-hop is lyrically driven. It's the only genre to do so. Even if it isn't taken advantage of, it offers the most logical output for lyrically-rich music. Hell, top 40 pop rappers will throw in a couple metaphors or symbolism into their shit. Also, that's not skill, that's talent, which doesn't even equate to good music anyways. You can be an actual autist and pull good music out of your ass, and it could be extremely simplistic and "easy" to make and that wouldn't belittle it at all. And talent is subjective. Don't be the ass who tries to pull the objective card just so he can feel good about his "superior" opinion. >>61736105 Make sure you take out the pit in those before you eat them! People choke on that shit dude :) >>61736111 Uh, sure? That's a piss-poor analogy, you're implying the lyrics are just the support for the music. Which, in most other cases, that's true. But for hip-hop, the lyrics would be the burger; take out all the toppings and the buns (the beat/music), and you're left with some steak that's fine on its own (the lyrics)
I'm not a backpacker, it's just a vocally driven genre
Maybe because rapping does not involve musical instruments and rappers who play musical instruments, or even have minimal musical education, or really know anything about music at all, are an exception rather than the rule. It could also be so because most rap lyrics are empty of significant content, be it because you're bragging about your material wealth or your sexual prowess, rapping about how good you rap, or other such nonsense. It could also be so because most hip-hop music just sucks, and it's musical value is difficult to find even with best intentions. I say all this as a life-long hip-hop head who's not embarrassed about listening to objectively shitty music. Here, have a listen to this Icelandic literal backpacker track about growing up with hip-hop to prove how "in" I am: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftKnrdYFG9M
>hip-hop is lyrically driven. (not true by the way)
>It's the only genre to do so. >(not even true)
>Even if it isn't taken advantage of, it offers the most logical output for lyrically-rich music. 
>Hell, top 40 pop rappers will throw in a couple metaphors or symbolism into their shit. Big whoop
>Also, that's not skill, that's talent, 
>which doesn't even equate to good music anyways. You said it
>You can be an actual autist and pull good music out of your ass, How is autism relevant here?
>and it could be extremely simplistic and "easy" to make and that wouldn't belittle it at all. If its shit, its shit
> And talent is subjective. You said it
> Don't be the ass who tries to pull the objective card just so he can feel good about his "superior" opinion. Then why can't memeraptards accept lots of people dislike the genre and have to start threads crying like little bitches about it?
>>61736509 Lyrics directly alter the timbre of the vocal instrument, so they are a determining factor of tone colour. Lyrics typically also determine the vocal rhythm, unless there is an intention to avoid doing so. They often influence the melodic line and harmonic structure; think lieder. So to say that lyrics are not an important element of vocal music is a half-baked idea.
>>61737884 And you can judge all of those musical things, because they are musical. Lyrics are not. A person's nasal cavities also directly alter the sound of their vocals, but their nose trills are not an element of music either.
Most rap is shit like most poetry is shit, made by any but the supremely talented or cultivated artists collections of words tend to fall into trite and derivative territory. Beatmaking is a different story
>>61736216 >but this is patrician when noise does it, isn't it? No. Not unless the artist is actually making an attempt to use other tools like timbre, dynamics, etc. to make a coherent piece with good pacing. Most noise artists don't do this in a tasteful or meaningful way and unless you're interested in textures for textures sake, it's really uninteresting.
>>61738657 The problem is defining exactuly what music is though. Many people would argue that music is much more than just what >>61736509 this guy summed up. Those are music theory, yes, but they're not the only thing worth talking about in music. What about music without rhythm? What about John Cage's 4'33"? Who are you to say that's not music?
Rap is basically poetry, an artform of its own, but who's to say it can't be part of music. Hell, even song titles or album covers can influence how you perceive certain songs, and can IMO be part of music. Biggest example to me would be Tim Hecker.
>>61738710 And to expand, the unfortunate prevalence of "rap" these days in its rolled over and totally commercialized form is what creates this general disdain for the "rap artists" of today which people are the most familiar with. When Kendrick Lamar is the most talented widely celebrated rapper of the current era then the picture is painted.
>>61738799 I'm ok with not being able to listen to walls of texture that change gradually over the course of 10 minutes. There's enough music with good pacing to keep me in supply of new music I enjoy for a few hundred years.
I love hip-hop, it's probably my favorite genre because' it's so expansive. The boundaries are pretty loose, and with sampling being an accepted practice there's room for people to take old ideas and re-purpose them into something different. This is why it's so unfortunate to me that so many people choose to do the typical sixteen bar rhyme scheme over repetitive common time instrumental where there's either no samples and a bunch of generic synths/percussion or the samples are just a drum loop and a repeated phrase or something. I also hate how, at least in the mainstream, you can put so much personality into your work and we end up with maybe one or two real individuals every year and a bunch of carbon copies of the same tired trends all the time.
Kid Koala - Your Moms Favourite DJ DJ Flare & D-Styles - Pharoahs of Funk DJ Craze & Klever - Scratch Nerds Cut chemist - The Audiences Listening Rob Swift - The Architecr DJ Qbert - Wave Twisters Fingerbangerz - Vi-R-uS D-Styles - Phantazmagorea DJ Shadow & Cut Chemist - The Hard Sell (Encore)
Rap might be considered poetry. But, at least according to the definition, and my lifetime of playing melodies, it is not music. Main reason? There is no melody (or quality!) I am so disappointed that our young people are being taken to a lower level by this.. Stuff. Nice language! So demeaning to women! Teaching people to be ... Criminals!
>I also hate how, at least in the mainstream, you can put so much personality into your work and we end up with maybe one or two real individuals every year and a bunch of carbon copies of the same tired trends all the time
I've played in punk, hip-hop, rock, funk, and jazz bands.
One issue that may feed this misconception is that because of how the music is made (focus on lyrics and meter along with sampling) many artists don't speak the same musical language as "typical" musicians. There are successful emcees and DJs who probably couldn't make a song in a certain key if you asked them.
But none of that matters because there is no rule that says music or musicians need to fully understand everything they are doing. A producer may not know that they are sampling an A minor arpeggio but it sounds good and it makes no difference to the listener.
Jimi Hendrix couldn't read music is his music worse than any of the throwaway albums with guys who could?
Hip-hop may or may not be simplistic (just like any other genre it varies song to song) but even if it were that doesn't matter. Simplicity and song writing actually go together pretty well. As an instrumentalist I've challenged myself and have listened to plenty of "musician's musicians." These are artists who make music that typically only other musicians can listen to because it is so technical and musically inaccessible for average listeners. Mass audiences demand simplicity, this is true in all genres. Underground music of every genre has more complex songs from better artists, I can't think of a single genre where more popular stuff is more musically advanced than the underground (occasionally an artist will break through and listeners will catch up so they don't have to dumb their work down: think Beastie Boys, El-P/Run the Jewels, Beck, Tool, Prince, Radiohead).
Anyway, my theory is people talk trash because they're more than a little bit dumb and just a little bit racist. I suspect they are the same people who can sit at a computer and call a pro football player lazy. You have to be utterly clueless and musically illiterate to say either metal or hip-hop doesn't have melody (it just isn't in the vocals...).
>>61736305 They keep bitching about it because you guys speak objectively about it, when rap is objectively good. Great, even. If you guys don't like it, that's absolutely fine. If you want to shit on raptards and rap in general, go ahead. But saying its bad is annoying as shit, and I don't even like rap that much
>>61736298 >It could also be so because most rap lyrics are empty of significant content, be it because you're bragging about your material wealth or your sexual prowess, rapping about how good you rap, or other such nonsense. >rock has the same thing
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