>>53493830 a lot of it just sounds dated, I think my main obstacle with jazz was that I already had a preconception of what jazz sounded like even when I was a kid and stuff like bebop and modal stuff actually sounds like what I imagined it would which made it seem super boring and also made it all sound the same to me., its almost like a caricature of itself, which is a shame because I realize the problem is me.
I've gotten into less standard forms of jazz, I like thirdstream music alot. I like Ethio-jazz a lot. I like Jazz-funk a lot. But to this day I still can't listen to a Kind of Blue at all even though I like other less 'generic' styles Miles has done on albums like On The Corner, SKetches of Spain, and Bitches Brew
yeah but the point I was getting at is that preconceptions and an overall datedness means that a lot of people who aren't into jazz are not going to be pulled in with a couple listens, its not that its too challenging to them its that is sounds boring.
>>53494535 it's not that they're dated, it's that you aren't actively listening to those pieces, and I recognize that probably find the textures unexciting.
Smooth jazz, and big band is basically intended to be inoffensive, background music. Whereas hard bop and more contemporary jazz styles are supposed to center stage events, that demand attention from the listener. For exactly the same reasons you described, many people dislike contemporary jazz styles, and even contemporary rock and dance music styles.
>>53494741 you don't have to be an avant-teen to like that album, and sun ra literally re-purposed his musicians for that album. While I think it's a pretty genius album, saying it was the smartest was pretty blatant irony.
No type of music is really more intellectual than any other (outside the scope of pop-music, and that includes pop-jazz).
I'd say Sketches of Spain is probably the smartest jazz album I've ever listened to, though.
>>53494917 Dude thing is that the progression of jazz is just essentially music getting more technical and way fucking faster. It's like guitarists that do "epic solos". It's just not that impressive to me if it doesn't please my ears, I think it takes a lot more to make you feel something rather than to cater to your genre's aficionados.
>>53495071 Nah, negroes are an inferior species and have always wasted their trash lives living like scum, those few ones that manage to go above themselves must surely be poor in spiritual content and I believe this is reflected in their music, hence the reason why you must be an idiot to like it.
>>53495048 I hold Ra, Mingus, Kirk, and as of late, Davis, as the best jazz band leaders/composers.
Ra did so much crazy interesting stuff with so many different instruments. Night of the Purple Moon was a favorite of mine after I started listening to a lot of Haack a few years ago.
The thing that really set's ra apart from the rest for me, is how prolific the people who played under him are. If you have never listened to any (kelan) Phil Cohran, I highly recommend it. Absolutely beautiful, without any of the aficionado complexity of ra's stuff.
>>53493830 I don't know, but I have a pet-theory of aesthetics that may clear it for us. There are basically two substances in an art work. There is ""res extensa"", the physical qualities, and all the subjective impressions they give to you (how beautiful and emotional a song may be, for example), but there is also a ""res cogitans"", the logical structure of the work, that only becomes clear when you apply reason to it (the way different themes are arranged in a composition, for example). This second quality of music is generally forgotten, and people tend to listen for the sensitive qualities of the song. In order to fully appreciate a jazz work you have to immerse yourself into the solos and try to understand what the soloist is doing, or at least attempt to see where he is going. Without this it can be no other thing than boring, since you have the same harmonic background repeating and a soloist doing seemingly random sounds (with a exception for really passionate soloists who give some intensity and emotion in their solos that are interest in themselves)
>>53494948 Um, it's been a while since I've heard them. But I definitely liked all of Kind of Blue. I recall liking Mingus Ah Um as well; the Pork Pie Hat tune was my favorite on that. And I liked all the flute and other instruments on the Black Saint and the Sinner Lady.
>>53494999 Yeah. I guess I just dig the slower stuff.
>>53495112 Dude don't fucking talk to me about cliche, jazz is the epitome of repetition and cliche. You're gonna bust out your ostinato or embellish the melody with a relative scale? Jazz literally went from improvisation, to composition, to improvisation. No fucking music has ever been so repetitive. Jazz was structured with AAB for the longest time.
>>53495249 >mfw I got VG++ original pressing of TEL for less than 20$
I love living in a big fuck city with aged hippies 2 hours away for cheap psych records.
here's a rarer cohran album https://mega.co.nz/#F!Jw8DAQBL!5XCDNkSbkE37CrYB6ZxeaQ
>>53495245 check out cohran, it's slow and melodic, not show offy at all. As my prof would say "eloquent elegance." you could also try some spacier albums. Perhaps bitches brew, headhunters, night of the purple moon/ space is the place might extend an olive branch for you.
If you still have trouble, just accept your tastes aren't fully developed yet and come back in a few months and try again.
>>53495529 I recommend his work with Ground-zero. Excellent blend of wacky shibyu-kei and free-jazz. I'm of course exaggerating how accessible he is, but once his music clicked for me there literally was not an album that I felt was above my tastes.
O'rourke and Zorn both knew he was amazing back in the 90's
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