lol get that garbage out of here
Gr8 keyboard m8
I really hope Korg reissues a MKII Odyssey, but with a white face.
Need babby's first hardsynth. Want polyphony. Looking towards VA. Under $250 used. Only prev hardware experience is a midi keyboard and a circuit bent sk 5. Micron, MicroKorg, MiniAK, or other?
I don't know shit about synths. I'm starting a dream pop band and want to incorporate ambient textures / soundscapes. Any advice for good synths like this? Again, I literally know next to nothing.
Save up a bit longer. You can get better stuff in the 500-800 range. It's an investment and could be something worthwhile if you get something that's actually worth the money you're dropping.
Alesis Ion for sure.
i wanna move my setup from hardware sequenced by software to a full hardware setup
i have an AJ2 and an Ultranova and a bunch of effects, thinking about getting a microbrute and an MPC1000.
will that give me the ability to both compose and play live or should i just stick to sequencing with ableton?
Excellent instrument. Mine's not with me right now so this will have to do
>mfw I bought a 4 track record and was ready to make some siqq ambient, but there were bugs in it
Oh well back to saving up for a prophet 08
The only thing I really want to add to my meager keybawd setup is a microkorg. I really like the way it sounds and dat vocoder too. Way more fun/creative than using the one in Reason
The synth choices in this thread are abysmal. Pleb as fuck. I mean serious it's 2014, and you're still getting virtual analog synth? Subtractive synthesis is over. It's played out. Get with the times grandpa, get a synth based on more modern techniques like waveshaping.
Wouldn't you use waveshaping in conjunction with subtractive IE. Use a waveshaper on your osc then run it through a filter.
Hardware is more reliable. Softsynths can't replicate analog filters or VCOs.
Its the same shit dude. Your modern hardware synth is just an embedded system running synthesis software. Your x86 PC is probably at least 100x more powerful, has way more memory and so can run more advanced and computationally intensive synthesis algorithms. The only other thing would be the DAC, which guess what you can get better quality ones for your PC anyway.
No one has countered my point, it's all crap like "f*cking idiot" or "theyre way cooler faggot". There is absolutely no reason for any rational thinking person to buy a hardware synth in 2014. Even if you need physical controls it's still cheaper to just buy a dedicated hardware controller instead.
microkorg is great. sorry it doesn't automatically churn out studio level presets and you have to actually have talent to make it function properly. plenty of major label artists and professional studio musicians use this instrument, and not because it's cheap, because it's adjustable as fuck and its great for getting those cheesy vintage synth sounds without having to lug around fragile, expensive vintage synthesizers.
lots of modular synths are very high end and have really nice sounds in them though. i would say the highest end vst still cant even compare to the quality of a nord, juno, ms-20, or really nice hardward
I am thinking of getting a System-1. I have seen countless videos and seems it is the closest to what I need to do at my price range.
The plugout synths sound good to.
I would get a Lead 4 if I had the space amd $$$.
as somebody who is fully updated on modern capabilities of VSTS, I still think the microkorg is a decent buy. It's cheap as fuck and there's something easier and simpler about being able to plug an instrument into mics, pedals, etc without having to cram everything into a computer. You're buying software... in a plastic keyboard shell... at the price of convenience, portability, and simplicity. not everybody makes all their music at their desk, not that theres anything wrong with that, but sometimes people want to take that sound out somewhere else without lugging around computers and a controller on top of it.
the thing about the microkorg is its ease of use, its depth and versatility despite being a lower end, "entry level" synth and its cheap price.
it feels good, it sounds good, its fun to play and I can make great music with it.
I've tried using a midi controller before tho, but I don't really have an inclination to do so
>plenty of major label artists and professional studio musicians use this instrument,
yeah, this. i'm going to take the expertise of Legowelt and The Neptunes more seriously than Some Guy on 4chan
my point is you're still comparing software with hardware. you won't find software that sounds identical to virtual analog/real analog unless it's an emulation in which case it still isn't the "real thing". and it all comes down to preference, in my case i find hardware instruments are much more intuitive and productive than sequencing with software. oh and just because it's "virtual analog" doesn't mean it's not as good or better than "real analog"
literally please try and argue your viewpoint to anybody in the music industry. anybody.
laptop + software + controller is fantastic, that doesn't mean that somebody might not want a simple, single unit synth that they can throw around and plug into any amp without setup.
try getting away from your desk sometime.
Do you even know what "virtual analog" means? It's software running on the processor inside the synth. You can run the exact same algorithm on your PC, except your PC has a much more powerful CPU and more RAM so it can sound much better.
The wave forms on a VA are so easy to synthesize it's a joke. I've written it before, and it's less than 20 lines of code per waveform. And that's even with proper bandlimited to prevent aliasing. Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of dsp could make a VA from scratch in a couple weeks tops.
>shut-in teenagers with no money try and argue with musicians about gear
and yet, if you actually attend shows, you still see microkorgs used by a huge percentage of professional musicians for live music because people don't want to see laptops on fold-out tables with some greasy teenager behind it making dark ambient post experimental noise drone with their le cheaper PC software synths
This argument was exhausted before it started. I play a Hammond - one of the easiest synthesizers to emulate in terms of software. It's like 300lbs and old and requires fucking oiling and maintenance and shit. I know it's more practical to use a Voce or NI B4 or whatever, but I still take care of it because I love the instrument. It feels nice, sounds nice even when idling, and smells nice, and I'm in a completely different headspace when I'm sitting with my hands on 60yr old keys. It makes me play different and I just enjoy it more.
Oh someone thinks he's hot shit with DSP, the "bilateral transform" doesn't account for nonlinearities. It only gives you the simplest digital filters that have been around for decades.
>Bandlimited tables + sinc interpolation. If you need hard sync, fuse minBLEP or BLIT.
Sinc interpolation is computationally expensive. Quasi-bandlimited transitions are good for ideal waveforms, but I don't think they're suitable for actual vintage VCO waveforms.
What now, bitch?
don't worry I can vibe with you. it's just the talentless dreamers who hate on people that can appreciate the feel of a tangible instrument for what it is, whether or not its the most cost effective option.
Yep that's all it is.
Did you read what I typed at all?
>I play a Hammond - one of the easiest synthesizers to emulate in terms of software.
>I'm in a completely different headspace when I'm sitting with my hands on 60yr old keys. It makes me play different and I just enjoy it more.
>Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of dsp could make a VA from scratch in a couple weeks tops.
Only a very basic one that has an unspectacular sound and no interesting features...
I already corrected myself about saying bilateral instead of bilinear, see this post here:
Hardware synths arent pushing the limits on filter technology. They're going to give you the same old tired 2pole (4 if you're lucky) Moog and Arp filters that have been around for decades.
Sinc interpolation used to be too expensive to use, but modern machines can use it on reasonable numbers of tables without glitching.
You're missing the point that the workflow/inspiration is ultimately the most important part. A piece of software being able to generate the same signal as a piece of hardware doesn't mean they're equivalent. And if you think modeling is super easy, I don't think you know anything about modeling. Try modeling a Leslie speaker. You can't.
>Hardware synths arent pushing the limits on filter technology.
But still, what you've described isn't remotely sufficient for a good quality emulation. Embedding hyperbolic tangent nonlinearities at various points in the filter is a decent first step, but then you need oversampling, and it still doesn't behave the same. You can iteratively estimate the effect of the feedback path to effectively eliminate the single sample delay (I think it's Diva that does this). Component level modeling is done to a limited extent, but I'm not sure anything yet is really convincing. Stuff like filter FM at high resonance is going to be very difficult to correctly emulate.
>Sinc interpolation used to be too expensive to use, but modern machines can use it on reasonable numbers of tables without glitching.
I think the Korg Kronos does something like that. They patented some novel form of interpolation that's supposed to be super low aliasing, but I haven't read it.
It's not that hard, just evalulate the fourier series for all harmonics with frequency less than half the sampling rate. You can put it in a table to save re-computation.
Yeah there you have it, you can model it. What do you think a model is? It is a simulation.
Additive synthesis isn't going to accurately model audio rate FM. You're still going to have tons of aliasing, even if you remove harmonics above Fs/2 based on instantaneous frequency. And are you just abruptly including or omitting them on a per-sample basis? Enjoy your discontinuities.
I already told you everything is properly bandlimited. Check out these spectrums.
>he thinks bandlimiting according to instantaneous frequency is enough to prevent aliasing
Answer me this, then: why do FM synths suffer from aliasing even when the instantaneous frequency of the sine wave carrier doesn't exceed Fs/2?
Uhh, let's see... the early models used "consonant-vowel" synthesis that crossfaded two different low resolution waveforms. The best models that are easy-ish to find are probably the MT-65/68 and HT-700.
Of the monophonic models, the VL-1, PT-30 and PT-50 are best.
There were some additive synthesis ones too, but the sound is kind of boring. The MT-70 isn't too hard to find.
Of the SK series, the SK-1, SK-5 and SK-8 each offer interesting features. I actually think the Yamaha VSS30 is a lot better, though.
Of the PCM keyboards, the MT-750 is most interesting, though it's more practical to settle for the MT-540.
The SA-35 is probably the best for circuit bending.
Anyone played with a System-1? It can get a SH-101 and SH-2 at the moment. More are coming. Maybe a Jupiter4.
>But we aren't talking about FM synths we are talking about VAs.
...but I'm talking about audio rate FM of VA waveforms. Aside from it being phase modulation vs. either exponential or linear FM of a VCO, Why do you think the bandwidth concerns would be dramatically different? It's a perfectly reasonable thing to try to emulate, as you'll find oscillator cross-modulation on a large number of desirable analog synths. But any software implementation will inevitably suffer from horrendous aliasing.
Synths are pretty much borderline music/technology. I think it's pretty interesting, but the dude just need to let it go. If digital sounds exactly like analog why do they still make analog.
FM has nothing to do with this, stop bringing it up. Most of the VAs mentioned ITT don't even do any FM, or if they do it's still digital and also suffers aliasing problems.
Because sucker musicians are too dumb to know they are being scammed. They fall for the marketting crap, "It's so much warmer" "so natural" so cool" "digital is lame", so the companies can keep selling their outdated technology at exorbitant prices.
>FM has nothing to do with this, stop bringing it up.
I'm using it to illustrate how your bandlimiting strategy is inadequate.
>Most of the VAs mentioned ITT don't even do any FM, or if they do it's still digital and also suffers aliasing problems.
Because in some domains, there is no adequate way to emulate analog hardware.
Thank you for saving all us "dummies" from the evil music instrument companies! I hope you enjoy spending all your time talking about how much smarter you all than all of us with your nerd shit. Meanwhile I'm rocking out on my microkorg, playing with my bros on stage.
I won't deny marketing is a big part, but I have yet to find a soft synth that sounds exactly like the original. Even digital stuff like FM8 gets really close to a DX7, but it's still not 100%.
>Even digital stuff like FM8 gets really close to a DX7, but it's still not 100%.
I have to interject that FM8 isn't intended to exactly model the DX7, and direct patch comparisons are flawed because FM8's patch translations introduce errors of their own that have nothing to do with the sound engine. NI were trying to make an advanced FM synth that loaded DX7 patches, not a DX7 clone.
>I hope you enjoy spending all your time talking about how much smarter you all than all of us with your nerd shit.
He didn't, though. He knows only the basics and is mostly talking Dunning-Kruger out his ass.
The "hurr hardware is useless, softsynths can do everything" guy is just talking shit and acting needlessly smug because he has the Steinberg VST SDK (or just SynthEdit lol) and some copied and pasted code. He thinks everything is easy because he's read 2-3 papers.
>The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias manifesting in two principal ways: unskilled individuals tend to suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher
I'm already out of my depth. no idea what this is saying.
I'm a /v/irgin who's recently played Korg DS10
Which is emulator of a MS series synth with a drum sequencer.
I feel like i've kinda hit a limit with what i can do with that without some kind of instruction booklet (minor music theory knowledge here)
What should my next step be because i really enjoyed playing with that shit
Please & Thanks