>>26029419 >>26029406 >"We think fillies make the right decision, even though they are young, inexperienced, no knowledge on morals what so ever. And that their childhood will be taken away from them if they do fuck an adult. I mean, they won't know if their childhood will be taken away from them bu...." >"Anon? Why are you looking at me like I was stupid?"
Take it from me. Having sex with children fucks them up big time. You spend the rest of your life haunted by the memories. You develop severe intimacy issues and find it nearly impossible to maintain healthy sexual relationships in your adult life. It fucks up your self esteem and you spend your whole life scared that people somehow know.
Trust me. I grew up to be a fucking heroin addict with zero ability to maintain a longterm relationship or let anyone come emotionally close to me.
>>26029580 I will say that's bullshit, otherwise how medieval age little girls didn't kill themselves after being mercilessly raped? Because society now tells you it is wrong. Before you had to rape for the survival of the human race, now since everybody has gone soft they think that killing the ill is being a monster. I just think they are all hypocrites.
>>26029957 It is deductive reasoning based on the fact that in those days, people died way earlier in life. There were a lot of unknown illness, life was more dangerous, wars and hunger. Now we live in a fucking comfortable blanket and that has made us take the things we have for granted and thus develop higher morality and standards.
>>26030065 >Dash is trying to deal with the psychological trauma of being molested by Twilight in the past >Comes up with imaginary rules in her head that filly-fooling is "celebrated" and that it's totally okay
>>"Rainbow Dash? Sit with me for a second." >Twilight plants a hoof on Rainbow Dash's withers and gingerly guides her over to a nearby plush chair. >The three of you are in the Princess's new library, so these soft-ass things are everywhere. >Rainbow Dash looks completely clueless. >"What's the matter, Twi?" >>"We need to talk about this... recent change in your personality." >Rainbow Dash continues to look confused. >"Change in my personality? What do you mean?" >>"We know what you did to Scootaloo." >Rainbow Dash's face brightens, and she looks like she's reliving a memory. >"Heh... yeah. That was a pretty good day. She came ten whole times; I counted." >Rainbow Dash leans over to you and nudges you with her elbow. >"Guess she couldn't keep up with The Dash, huh, Anon?" >You can't express how uncomfortable you feel right now. >Twilight just sighs, looking disappointed. >>"This is exactly what I'm talking about, Rainbow. You can't just keep going around sticking your tongue into anypony you want." >"What? B-but why not?" >>"It's against the law! Filly-fooling is against the law!" >Rainbow Dash's face just screams, "that's bullshit; stop lying." >"No, it's not." >>"Yes, it is! I've been covering for you as much as I could, but this can't keep happening." >Rainbow Dash and Twilight have a brief stare-off before Dash turns over to you. >"Let's get out of here, Anon." >She grabs your sleeve in her mouth and tugs you out of the library, ignoring Twilight shouting behind her. >The two of you walk in uncomfortable silence, and you can't help but shoot confused, but disgusted, looks her way. >When Rainbow notices this, she just rolls her eyes and flies up to punch you in the shoulder. >"Don't listen to her, Anon. Twilight's been after Scoot for longer than I have, and she's just angry that I got to her first." >Fuck this world and everything about it.
>Today was a "society is down to clown with foal-fucking" kind of day.
>>26029580 Never seemed to be a problem for me. I just learned a little bit more, a little bit faster.
Remember, kids. If someone seems to be deliberately trying to terrify you into following their personal philosophy, it's time for a good look behind the curtain and a whole lot of questions that they don't want you to ask.
>>26030631 It wasn't the sex that did it, and you know it. IT was the violation of trust, the lack of love, the lies, the threats, all of that shit.
Sex is just sex. You can elicit the exact same reaction from any child by performing all of those previously-mentioned violations without the sexual part. Hell, it would likely be even more destructive, since they wouldn't have the quick explanation of "oh it was the dicks in butts that did it" to write it all off with.
>>26030702 Sex is an integral part of the human psyche. It has the same affects as any other kind of abuse. That's why a child raped by a stranger can develop the similar emotional and psychological issues as someone who was raped by a relative or trusted authority figure. But, again, just as everyone has a different psychological make up, people all handle trauma differently. Heroine anon ended up resolving it with drug abuse, while the other anon liked it (which does say things about his psyche at the time depending on his age).
Also it is a false dichotomy that children in the past were hardier. Children were not allowed to be children as they are today. And looking at societies built on the active encouragement of children being married to adults, there is even further repression of healthy growth.
>You hold up a finger >Best to take a moment to finish your cider on this one >When the last of the cool, refreshing beverage is finished swirling down your throat, you look up at Dash again "What?" >"I mean, yeah. Everybody knows it's a special way for young colts and fillies to get to know the adult ways of life." "...So you and scootaloo..." >"Oh, yeah, she's great! A little nervous the first time, but she really gets into it!" >You exhale and pour yourself another cider "When Luna was helping out the CMC. Did she also have sex with them?" >"Oh, yeah! Scootaloo told me all about it! Luna actually started licking her pussy while she was still-" >You hold up a finger again, drinking your cider >Dash, mercifully, notices >"Something wrong, Anon?" >Yes >Something is wrong >You're apparently trapped in one of those weird fetish versions of Equestria that hack greentext writers make, not the actual fucking thing from the show >Or maybe Lauren just had a sick and twisted mind >Whatever >You can get through this "Nope. Nope, 'stotally fine." >"You really should fuck Applebloom, Anon! She's really close to you!" >You're gonna need more cider for this
>>26033291 >>26033291 I know and realize sex in and of itself is not traumatic, but sex preformed without consent, informed or not, is indeed traumatic.
It sounds like you're trying to say that sexual abuse is not important or doesn't have as significant of an effect in comparison to other forms of trauma because sex in and of itself is not abusive. And that's not the topic at hand. Sexual acts preformed on a child will more often than not cause lasting psychological affect. The exact way this trauma manifests itself varies of course but it can be determined.
You could argue that all abuse is context dependent. A child being corporeally punished by their parent or by another adult may cause trauma, while an adult participating in BDSM with a consenting partner will not be traumatized. The act of corporeal punishment is not the traumatizing factor, it was the fact it was an adult imposing their will on a child.
>>26033578 Depends on how you define "molestation". Me, I define it as "unwanted contact", but most people just define it as "sex in general".
But fuck it. I'm not going to change your mind. Only you can do that. I hope you actually decide to put the research in and look at the topic without the conditioning that you have endured for your entire life. Of course, said research would be illegal as fuck, but hey.
>>26033728 >decide to put the research in and look at the topic without the conditioning that you have endured your entire life
What research is that exactly? Has such research been determined retestable and reliable as research showing that children who engage in sexual acts "willingly" or not suffer from trauma? What is the mode of intent behind this research?
Look I'm all one for not vilifying pedophiles and for molestors to be given the opportunity for rehabilitation. Paraphilia is for all intents and purposes, a mental disorder that can be "healthy" or "unhealthy" depending on how the individual acts on it. If someone is jacking off to porn of fillies in their own home and won't dare touch a child or support the touching of real children, good for them. I have no qualms with them. But when they defend sexual conduct of any kind with children, then I begin to question them. And what I've noticed is that non pedophiles usually do not support the line of thinking you happen to be supporting. I won't make assumptions, but your intent is dubious.
>>26029837 > otherwise how medieval age little girls didn't kill themselves after being mercilessly raped Uh, they did? Rape has always led to emotion trauma >It is deductive reasoning based on the fact that in those days No it isn't, you're a dumbass making shit up. People lived well into their 70s if they passed childhood.
On child sexuality not being harmful ====================================
Research -------- Susan Clancy: http://www.salon.com/2010/01/19/trauma_myth_interview/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Clancy#The_Trauma_Myth https://www.ipce.info/library/journal-article/trauma-myth
>>26035315 Attempting to try and talk some sense into these sick, edgy fucks, just won't work. Just let them be. They're so deadset on either wanting to fuck kids or getting a rise out of others, that anything we will say will change nothing. If anything, they'll just get off on us complaining.
>>26035254 Clancy says outright that even if children don't understand the abuse at the time, it does have an affect later on. She's saying there's no IMMEDIATE trauma but trauma comes about later on with understanding. But beyond that, I counter that children who do not understand the trauma do in face demonstrate psychological damage in other ways (their relationships with adults being altered, triggering of addictive or obsessive behaviors, ect.) beyond what is typical of adult child abuse sufferers. But I do agree that we shouldn't be looking for ADULT signs of abuse in children.
The Rind et al study is flawed in it's meta-test, population variance, and general misuse of scientific literature in support of their claims.
I agree that PEDOPHILES can be decent human beings as long as they NEVER force their will upon children or act in their desires in any harmful way. Molestors and sexual abusers are at fault.
And the second hand harm is again basing analysis on lack of statistic and inference without substantial reason. And obviously he has his own determination of what qualifies as trauma and abuse and builds his analysis around those terms.
>>26035576 I consider any sexual touching with the full intent of the adult abuse. So doctor having to look at a little girl's vagoo? Not at all. But her uncle touching it intending to create sexual arousal in either himself or the child? Yes.
And it's not only for the sake of the child. Both actions show that the offender is either deluded to believe that children should be used as sexual objects or are able to give informed consent, or it speaks to the individual's views on morality and the consideration for others. Both point to mental imbalance.
I just want to say this so I don't come off as someone who wants to coddle sex abuse victims to a harmful degree. I do believe CSAs should be taken to therapists even if they do not show signs of real psychological damage, or atleast it should be conveyed to them again and again what COULD happen, what to do if it happens, and not to feel guilty or broken (though thanks to the words of Clancy I do believe that techniques that could create false memories really need to be thrown out). And I also think, depending on how emotionally reactive they are, CSAs should be taught to understand the workings of their abuser and how they think. Just so they understand the intent was not malicious, that mental illness is at play and hopefully this will repair their relationships with others and with the self.
>>26035706 It's never that cut and dry, anon. Sometimes sexual abuse IS because the offender is attracted to children. Not always. Sometimes the offender is just attracted to power over the weak. A good amount of child molesters don't even test as pedophiles.
Sexual contact without deceit, intimidation, or cruelty has no negative effect on any person, unless said person has already been raised to believe that such conduct is immoral or "dirty". By itself, sex is just stimulation, and most kids start masturbating early. The social context of the act is where a lot of problems come from.
I have never once seen a case that has led me to believe that sexual conduct in a loving relationship would ever traumatize a child. And I never will, because the research will never be done. Because it's still illegal, even if you can prove that nobody is getting harmed.
There is a difference between raping a child and having fun and games, sexually with them. Raping anyone fucks them up. But the only way you can fuck up a child who had consensual sex with someone they trusted at the time is to force them through therapy where they are brainwashed into thinking they were raped
>>26035738 I would say it very well does cause harm in terms of the exact point that children don't understand sex. They don't understand the implications of this conduct. Furthermore there is the effect of authority. A child is taught to please adults as they are the authority, so that does indeed violate part of consent as sex with a minor is coercive in that regard. It's similar to how it is looked down upon when psychologists have sex with their patience. They are a symbol of authority and someone to be obeyed/has your best interest in mind, just as children see adults. So that is turned to sex being a way to please authority.
And as you said, there is no study on a "normal" sexual relationship between a child and adult. And when you bring up sexual conduct having no negative affect, I assume you are talking about consenting adults. Since children cannot view sex the same way as adults, it is a false equivalence until it could be determined.
Anecdotal evidence doesn't carry much weight, but atleast from my personal experience with sexual abuse victims from a young age, and seeing testimony from those who are victims of statutory rape or hebephilia that there are significant differences in views of sex, in tendency towards addiction, and personality disorder.
It would be nice to somehow prove the cultural influence to be either substantial or not in some sort of culturally sterile environment but that's of course impossible. But I still stand by my claims that there is underlying mental trauma, even if it isn't demonstrated through the exaggerated, cliche forms.
>>26035847 >children don't understand sex >children cannot view sex the same way as adults "Children" are not a homogeneous entity. Differences in culture, in physical growth, in how they are personally raised, these all can have huge impacts on whether or not any given child "understands" sex. As if sex itself was all that complicated to understand. No, it is the social context that surrounds sex that most children "can't understand". And that's only because most are nigh-on completely sheltered from it. "Sex is dirty", "Sex is private", "Don't let the kids hear us".
>Furthermore there is the effect of authority. Social. Context. I do agree that leveraging one's authority in order to obtain sexual favors from ANYONE is abusive. But what if the child is treated as an equal?
You are allowing your personal experience with victims of abuse to color your jugdement and view them as "victims of sex", I think.
>>26035893 But again, you have no definitive evidence of what would happen if these cultural implications were lifted. Children cannot weigh the decisions as adults can. You could teach a child all the different ins and outs of sexual conduct, of the consequences of sex, teach them how to be safe, and they will act on their impulse. If you look at drinking and alcohol abuse rates in youths in foreign countries that don't have minimum drinking age, you can see that it is much greater statistically than those in America. This is because before the judgement centers in the brain can fully form, people will act on impulse rather than weigh pros and cons of every option. Thus, because alcohol "feels good", children will want to drink it more often even if there is no negative stigma around it and they are warned of the consequences. You could extrapolate based on this information that the same would happen if the laws forbidding sex with minors. Children would seek out sex without thought of repercussion, or would regress into their state of being willing to please even when their own well being or enjoyment is being set aside. Cross culturally children are taught to obey the commands of adults, so even if they are treated as equals in a sexual situation, they are not seeing it the same way. They are seeing the adults commands as the authority, even if they are not comfortable. It often happens even in consenting couples if one individual is afraid to speak up that something is painful or makes them uncomfortable. So there is no sure fire way to tell whether or not the child in question truly "enjoys" sexual activity without swaying them one way or another.
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