How powerful are Valkyrie gunpods compared to mobile suit

Not a good comparison, anon.

Gunpods are for
>Brrrrtatatatatatatatatatata

Mobile suit rifles are for
>Peeeeeeew. Peeeeeeeew. Peeeeeeeeew.

DAMMIT /M/

YOUR CUTTING INTO MY FAP TIME

Power of a hyper mega beam launcher and accuracy of a fin funnel.

This is the truth senpai, inb4 Gundamfag tears

>>13768772
>Power of a hyper mega beam launcher

That's a bit excessive, isn't it? Of course, we assume that the miniaturization of gunpod ammunition size was due to improvements in armor-penetrating capabilities so the VF-1's 55mm gunpod VS a Zaku II wouldn't have that great a difference or might even be inferior to a VF-11's 30mm gunpod vs a Dreissen.

Granted, very few MSes could walk it off unscathed, but a few exceptions like the Xamel would probably be able to shrug off glancing hits as opposed to getting hit with the Hyper Mega Beam Launcher, the equivalent of which is probably the beam cannons of the VF-1 Strike Valkyrie.

Of course, if we're bringing in MDE-upgraded ammunition into this you would just end up taking chunks out of everything.

>>13768685
>58mm
>multibarrel

Brütal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5scT4NdjPw

>>13768685

Compared to the machine guns? I think significantly better.

The mobile suit machine guns fire larger shells, but they don't have much in the way of armor piercing capability.

A Zaku machine gun is planning on shooting you with bombs that explode when they hit, which is effective against traditional materials but fails in the face of space metals.

A Valkyrie Gunpod, on the other hand, shoots space metal slugs in bursts at super high velocities. No fancy explosions, just punching clean through the target. This is shown to be effective against space metal armored units as well, and even moderately effective against space battleship armor.

If we presume that lunar titanium and hypercarbon are even roughly equivalent, the Gunpod is better. Otherwise, Lunar Titanium would have to be much, MUCH better than hypercarbon for the weapons to break even.

>>13769930
>Britai smashes a VF with a pipe
yeah, no.

>58mm Gunpod
>60mm Vulcan (Pod)
Of course there's other things to take into account like mass, velocity, material, etc.

>>13770149

Zentradi stonk, especially commander types.

Besides, that sort of wonkiness isn't exactly unique to Macross. The Gundam was nearly COMPLETELY DESTROYED by some C4.

>>13769930
You do know the Zaku's main gun fires 120mm tank shells right? mostly or animation they dont show them effecting much (along with lunar titanium), but the valkyrie pods are 30 or 20 mm at best.

http://www.macross2.net/m3/macrosstechman/tech-gunpod.html

>>13770256

Nice. So, since the MSG machine guns are explicitly firing tank rounds, we can say that Space War 1 era Gunpods are roughly 8x stronger than a OYW era mobile suit machine gun.

Thats a pretty definitive answer to the question.

>>13770275
No, a 120mm tank shell is still listed as delivering more energy per round there.

>>13770284

Yes, but if you keep reading the Gunpod's rate of fire more than makes up that difference in volume.

The 8x stronger is his number, not mine.

58mm autocannon is too small to penetrate modern tank front armour, let alone future space nigger breastplates. Meanwhile, mobile suit machine guns are a little better in that they're usually 90-120mm rounds, so if these things fire full size sabot rounds, they should do the trick in a few shots.

However, I do think both are a bit dumb. Making a full sized tank gun automatic sounds just terribly redundant, considering how great the reduction in stability and velocity is.

And to all of you BRRRTTTT-fans out there, the A-10 was barely effective when it came out, and the GAU hasn't been valid against MBT's for over 20 years.

>>13770305
Correct, but that's on a tank that can only fire every couple seconds, the machine guns carried by Zakus for example have a much higher fire rate.

>>13768685
Valkyrie gunpods are like the RL vulcans installed into jets. MS machine guns are like what you see with ground troops and armored vehicles.

>>13770309

Your mistake is that you are comparing the gunpod to an A 10 when you should be comparing it to a hypersonic railgun.

The small size of the projectile matters little when it is fired with enough force to go in one side of a tank and out the other.

>>13770318
The 120mm Zaku MG is shit, its got a slow rate of fire, low velocity and little penetration. No wonder they stepped up with the 90mm higher velocity rounds

>>13770309
58mm is the caliber of a turreted naval autocannon. That pod is five naval autocannons in a bundle, which is roughly the firepower of four littoral patrol crafts, meaning those shells are probably large enough to carry proximity fuzes and other fun stuff that makes the pod supremely useful in attack and defence against Macross missile spam and fast-moving aircrafts. Meanwhile, the Zaku gun was deployed on a system meant to sink battleships first and foremost, so the larger caliber and the relatively high ROF do make some sense.

early macross gunpods are the same strength as head vulcan or Ground Gundam chest vulcan.

as of frontier? gunpods shoot either mini black holes or super dimensional energy beams. Which places them above the firepower of Wing Gundam's twin buster.

>>13770373
It was designed to destroy tanks and serve as bombardment. Not MS vs. MS combat. Much like everything that plagued the initial gouf design and was fixed with the B3 variant.

>>13770401
Nah. Explain all you want, 58mm ain't gonna turn into space wizardry on behalf of being mounted on a ship. It's an understrength caliber that will never penetrate an abrams turret from the front.

Well, I guess that's it then guys. This guys >>13770481 autism says that we can ignore all of that onscreen evidence of this weapon in action. The countless times that the Gunpod chewed through enemy armor explicitly made out of spacemetals that put any human made materials to shame never happened.

Someone call Kawamori. He is going to be devastated when he finds out Macross never happpened.

>>13770506
HURR ITZ IN DA ANIME SO IT MUST BE HOW IT DO! this is macross for fucks sake, you know? the one with all the idols and garbage? where action was a third of the show at best and is now only a vehicle for more idol garbage?

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It's interesting to note that, in Gundam, the weapons specifically labeled as "Vulcan" guns seem to measure the full size of the barrel array, rather than the bore of a single barrel.

An MS' head Vulcan is usually 60mm, and yet it's clearly much, Much, MUCH smaller than the Alex's 90mm arm gatlings.

I'd say it's safe to divide a Vulcan gun's measure by three or four to get an accurate bore diameter. So a 60mm Vulcan fires 20mm or 15mm shells.

The thing that gets me about VF gunpods is that I should think they'd run outta ammo very, very fast. The VF-1's GU-11 only holds 200 rounds -- for a gatling weapon with a rate of fire of 1200 rounds per minute, that's a paltry supply of bullets.

>>13770325
It's amazing how many people don't understand this. Caliber isn't everything.

>>13770570
Some Cosmic Era CIWS have most listed as 20mm or 25mm, while something like the Strike has 75mm its very inconsistent though UC seems to follow 60mm for vulcans, with some rare 40mm vulcan pods. Zeon had some odd ones like 30mm head mounted vulcans for Garma's Zaku, and 35mm for the Gouf Custom's wrist mounted vulcans, and 75mm for the Gouf's finger guns.

>>13770570
Real world guns on planes hold similar ammo counts, the gun is meant to be used in short bursts, not spray and pray. There's also the handy adjustable fire rate as well.

They're zentradi weapons modified for human (mecha) use, while Gundam guns are indigeous designs. The VFs' guns have tens of thousands of years of advantage.

>>13770568

We are talking about a fictional weapon that we see perform feats that would be literally impossible if it couldn't even get through an Abrams. Therefore, it is more than strong enough to punch through an Abrams.

Whether or not such a weapon is realistic is a moot point, the Gunpod has this level of firepower confirmed. The only question left is how, except that isn't a question because the show itself tells us that the Gunpod is enhanced with alien technologies.

The only argument for why the Gunpod should be weak is by comparing it to a much less advanced version of the same weapon can calling them equivalent. Which is a lot like pretending that military firepower has never advanced beyond muskets, therefore antimaterial rifles doesn't exist.

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>>13770594
Correct. I'm just saying that what appears to be the case is that, in Gundam, things specifically named "Vulcan" (as opposed to "gatling" or whatever else) measure the size of the barrels array rather than bullet diameter. No idea why, but it seems to be true.

>>13770596
True enough, but... Eh, I dunno. Still seems like an incredibly small supply of ammo.

>>13770628
>They're zentradi weapons modified for human (mecha) use, while Gundam guns are indigeous designs. The VFs' guns have tens of thousands of years of advantage.

Actually no. The Zentraedi don't use shell-firing weapons. The gunpods are derived from modern fighter plane armament. They're not THAT great -- I wouldn't say that Macross gatling gun tech is appreciably different from Gundam gatling gun tech.

>>13770678
actually Zentraedi/Meltran mecha do use shell firing weapons.

In the hundreds of thousands of years since the end of the Protoculture. The Zentraedi kept on going about their business of war. As time went on they lost Protoculture built automated weapon factories. The Zentraedi them selves could not figure out how to build new beam weapons themselves. Though they were able to figure out shell firing weapons and build their new mecha with those.

>>13770481

You do realize that 58mm is a useless measurement right?

58x___ is seriously an order of magnitude more important information for future weaponry, especially depending on propulsion.

Sure, a 58mm isn't going to penetrate a tank head on, but that's a modern 58mm. A 58mmx1m rail could penetrate under gravity for example.

Especially considering an autocannon of that size would be well suited for advanced KE weaponry

>>13770309
You do realize gunpod rounds are shown penetrating battleship armor in Macross right? And they aren't hitting conventional armor like we have today, they're destroying armor made up of a space metal that's stronger than titanium.

>>13770678
>I wouldn't say that Macross gatling gun tech is appreciably different from Gundam gatling gun tech.
According to the description in >>13768685, they use electromagnetic propulsion rather than conventional combustion-based methods, which removes a lot of limitations on maximum muzzle velocity.

>>13770256
I dont totally like the argument the guy on that website is making, he suggests that if we simply calculate how much energy is in the number of shells fired by the VF weapons we get 8x the energy of a tank cannon so clearly it will penetrate. However he also gives the energy for an M16 at 1,800 so by his logic we simply need to fire 54,088 rounds of 5.56 nato rounds to apply the same energy as the 1 second burst from the Gau-11 you cant just measure the penetrative power of a round solely by its energy output and muzzle velocity and mass there are other factors. Also could we stop trying to put numbers to future space guns, lets just assume they are super powerful.

>>13770309
> lol only 9mm - the post

>>13770309
>I know nothing about guns

>>13771222

Anon, That's the problem, 54,088 rounds of 5.56 delivered on target in 1 second are virtually identical to a GAU-11's single shot burst.

The only reason we would think the numbers are wrong is because it's very difficult to imaging getting 54,088 rounds of 5.56 on target in 1 second... Same mass on target, same joules.

I agree with the second part though; If you want to stat space guns, you should just put "Space" in every column.

>>13770309
>Thinking that caliber is everything
Please. Caliber means nothing.

Ammunition, muzzle velocity, it all matters.

Macross gunpods have been shown to punch through everything from zentradi units to ship hulls.

The one time the gunpod was useless was against the Vajra, and the Vajra evolved specifically to be immune to their weapons.

>>13770700
>actually Zentraedi/Meltran mecha do use shell firing weapons.
>In the hundreds of thousands of years since the end of the Protoculture. The Zentraedi kept on going about their business of war. As time went on they lost Protoculture built automated weapon factories. The Zentraedi them selves could not figure out how to build new beam weapons themselves. Though they were able to figure out shell firing weapons and build their new mecha with those.

WTF are you talking about

>>13770918
>You do realize gunpod rounds are shown penetrating battleship armor in Macross right?

Since when

>>13771082
>According to the description in >>13768685 (OP), they use electromagnetic propulsion rather than conventional combustion-based methods, which removes a lot of limitations on maximum muzzle velocity.

The GU-11 doesn't. And it's not like Gundam doesn't have railguns either.

>>13773010
>Caliber means nothing.

Not NOTHING. Come on.

>>13773053
On its own, it just tells you what's the diameter of the ammunition.
It doesn't tell you what ammunition does the gun shoot and how said ammunition performs against armor.

>>13773047
We're talking about Gundam machine guns, not Freedom's railguns.

Why do late UC mobile suits even have machine guns still? What would the F91 need those chest machine guns for?

>>13774749
Less collateral damage than a beam weapon, missile interception, ballistic rounds are actually more ineffective in late UC given the trend towards smaller, lightly armored Mobile Suits.

>>13774799

And, don't forget, shooting up hapless ground troops and vehicles.

>>13769264

fucking love that sound

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>>13770309
>>And to all of you BRRRTTTT-fans out there, the A-10 was barely effective when it came out, and the GAU hasn't been valid against MBT's for over 20 years.
Against MBTs, no. That's why A-10s are armed with Mavericks, JDAMs, LGBs and the like (or rather, why the USAF sends Reaper UCAVs, B-1s and other fast-movers to take out heavily armored targets).
The A-10's role in the battlefield is to provide close air support for the infantry on the ground. More precisely, persistent close air support: pound on the enemy over and over and over with the Avenger. Especially in danger-close situations, where dropping even a guided bomb has the potential of injuring your allies (circular error probable, CEP).

And in today's wars, where the enemies are not Soviet Motor Rifle divisions, but a bunch of diaper-heads in Toyota pickups, Hogs are perfect for the role and (more important) at a fraction of the cost in fuel, maintenance and ordnance.

Isn't the tech gap between both insanely large?
If both are projectile ammunition and macross has a much more advanced equivalent then it trumps it no doubt.
As similar as the shows are it's not a great comparison.
Maybe the Alex miniguns are sort of a primitive version of the gunpods in terms of destructive power maybe?

>How powerful are Valkyrie gunpods compared to mobile suit machine guns?

Very.

I think the Over Flag's 200mm linear rifle is pretty powerful as far as ballistic weapons go

>>13773036
We see preUN Zent mecha using shell firing weapons.

Protoculture died out. Zents didn't know how to replicate Protoculture tech.

So when Protoculture designed and built factory satellites were lost. The Zents had to replace the lost weapons with more primitive Zent designed weapons.

If the Zents hadn't found the Macross. They would have died out eventually.

>>13775084
>Zent designed weapons

See, until you actually provide a source for this claim, that part is what sounds impossible.

Zentradi cannot even replace a broken pane of glass. Its a plot point that the factory sats keep chugging out ships with nuke launchers, and commanders get trained in how to use them tactically, but they no longer have nukes to arm them with because the supply infrastructure is fucked.

It seems wildly counter to the original series for the Zents to be able to build or invent anything themselves before space war one.