I just finished the 08th MS Team, and it just seems like 0083 did everything it tried better, while having more importance in the grand scheme of things on top of it.
>0083 was probably the worst UC OVA
They could have done it like Top Gun and had Kou return to Nina after destroying the Delaz fleet on his own in the Dendrobium while "Mighty Wings" played but noooooo fucking japs need their cuckold melodrama fix for some reason
>while having more importance in the grand scheme of things on top of it
It's a shoe-horned OVA. 08th broadened the UC world by showing a theater of the OYW that wasn't as straight forward as White Base's operations. 0083 pushed itself in between a few important things, showed a few familiar faces, and then it just flashed some sweet robots. It didn't really contribute anything beyond mech designs, it just acted as a parasite to better storylines without upsetting status quo.
>Seriously fuck the federation and their special snowflake gundams
Did you not notice how the whole show's premise was to steal one of Feds' MS to use against them because their own MS suck donkey dick?
>tfw 0083 was entirely ruined by the shitty fucking romance
Everything else was tolerable but the fucking forced love triangle that was played out about as well as a 12 year old's Harry Potter fanfic.
You only watch those for the side characters and the mechanimation porn anyway.
She definitely did.
>0083 was definitely not better than 08th ms team
Two faces of the same coin.
>tfw 0083 was entirely ruined by the shitty main characters
Also for the record Nina didn't choose Gato over Uraki.
There's no triangle, just Nina being annoying as fuck and having the wrong priorities.
>it was forced as fuck
It was pure drama for the sake of drama, which happens way too often in animu.
I felt it was the reverse. 0083 was an abortive, flat space opera, while 08th was a more grounded, but still stupid polygon drama vastly overshadowed by what was an undeniably interesting war, of boots on the ground, of malaria, of third-world backwoods folk fighting immense military forces armed with little more than their pride, of the brain-damaged drudgery of military life in general, and of course, of Zakus in the Mud.
>need their cuckold melodrama fix for some reason
Because Anavel Gato can't be beaten by a lowly kid who lacks ideas in any category. Be it war or love. He must die by his own hands in GRORIOUS ZEON KAMIKAZE! SPACENOID FREEDOM BANZAI!
>it has a nuke
Which they could have easily refitted onto a Zeonic suit in that case. Shit, they had Zaku Is lobbing nukes during the OYW, they could slap that bazooka on a Dom if they really wanted.
They didn't even bother repainting the damn thing.
>Started as Top Gun with mechs
>Director shift makes it some kind of romantic drama
>Starts out as less depressing Apocalypse Now with mechs
>Director shift turns it into some kind of Romeo and Juliet bullshit
Because nukes were outlawed by the treaty you dipshit.
>steal feddie suit armed with nuke
>nukes are illegal
>this could RUIN the feddie scum
>HURR NO IMMA BE RETARDED ZEEK AND JUST TAKE THE BAZOOKA/REPAINT IT IN GLORIOUS ZEON COLORS
>WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT NOW LOOKS LIKE IT'S OUR NUKE AND WE'RE IN THE WRONG??????
The Antarctic Treaty that banned nukes only covered the One Year War. Given that the events of 0083 take place several years after the war there's no reason that the Federation would be beholden to the rules of a defunct treaty. That's why Gato and company weren't trying to make the public aware that the Federation had nuclear weapons at any point, because it wouldn't be any kind of violation and no-one would care. They stole it because they had no other way to get their hands on a nuclear weapon and they needed one along with a launching system (though they could improvise one if need be presumably) to disable a large part of the Federation fleet and prevent the colony drop from being stopped.
>That's why Gato and company weren't trying to make the public aware that the Federation had nuclear weapons at any point
Pretty sure Delaz did a broadcast calling the feddies hypocritical cowards and displaying the GP02 in all of it's chunky glory on live TV for the sake of rallying colony support. Even if it wasn't their main goal, it still did a pretty good job of pouring salt in the wound.
The director shift in 0083 completely raped the story and nothing made sense though. I wasn't aware of a director shift in 08th but the only thing that's bad is the last episode, and it's not *that* bad, just dumb/pointless.
Yea, having just checked Youtube you're right. One more reason that 0083 is kind of stupid then I guess - though I guess Delaz could be saying it in full knowledge that the Antarctic Treaty doesn't hold water after the One Year War and that it doesn't matter so much as what the public thinks of the Federation, so that as long as he words it in a way that acts like it's still a valid treaty sympathizers won't care and no-one is really going to be able to pull him up and go "Wait...what? That's not right".
Why exactly does it matter that it has important? 0083 means nothing, it's shoved in between 0079 and Zeta completely unnecesarily, like we needed another Zeon invasion between OG Zeon and Axis Zeon to explain why the Titans would come to be, it's completely superfluous. All the cameos mean dick shit, and it's another Zeon Ace that for some reason was never sent against Amuro.
It's an extremely pretty OVA, they put so much money into it, but it's dumb garbage made to cash in on the OAV boom at the time.
On top of this - it sort of becomes an afterthought with everything else he does.
I mean, you look at the overall track record of the Delaz Uprising, the nuke's primary role is just to level off the numbers. Any controversy over it is glossed over in the OVA and, like the entire Delaz Fleet, all but nonexistent everywhere else.
The scene is yet another of many points 0083 sets up and then never really does much with.
It is amusing to think that Zeon could design and build advanced mobile suits and armors like the Xamel, Neue Ziel and so on, that they had enough money and pull to get units like the Gerbera Tetra from Anaheim and one guy was able to build (or at least repair) a massive mobile armor like the Val Varo on his own in a scrap yard yet they couldn't get a nuke from any of those sources and had to steal an entire suit from the Federation just to get one.
>Started with a lame MC, bitch love interest and muh honor rival
>Ended with a lame MC, bitch love interest and muh honor rival
>muh director change
>Starts out with some kind of Romeo and Juliet bullshit
>Ends with some kind of Romeo and Juliet bullshit plus retarded morals
>muh director change
Surely people can't be that stupid.
0083 did have a director change and the OVA did stop being Top Gun because of it. The second they start throwing all the death flags at South Burning in literally the episode where he's going to die is when you can tell things have gone to shit
For me it's the moment when Nina is suddenly revealed to be Gatou's girlfriend and she sacrifices basically the entire NA Midwest because of it.
And then they think they made a happy ending when she comes back at the end. Kou should have gored her with that pitchfork.
>The second they start throwing all the death flags at South Burning in literally the episode where he's going to die is when you can tell things have gone to shit
Things went to shit long before with the retarded Von Braun episode.
See. This is the kind of retard that shitposts about shows they don't even remember the details of. You're worse than that one idiot who keeps shitposting about TurnA and says "Well I don't really know, it's been 3 years since I watched it but I think it's like this, which is why it's bad"
I refuse to believe that anyone would get confused at Nina's actions or say that her behaviour made no sense without some serious self inserting as Uraki. I swear his character was written in a vicious way to mock self insert nerdy losers.
Not really, Gato's the villain of the piece, he's supposed to do morally objectionable and rather horrific things to make himself the villain in the first place and only becomes an interesting villain if he does so in many respects. Nina's the love interest - her doing morally objectionable things like shooting at her current love interest to save the life of her old love interest despite the fact he's just done something completely horrific compromises her relationship to the main character and, given the way things wrap up, leaves things rather unsatisfying. It's possible to have those events and that ending and have it be done in a way that the audience buys in to it, but the way 0083 did is certainly not the way to go about it since it never gives the show time to repair the relationship between Kou and Nina and just expects you to pretend it happened at some point instead. Which is frustrating.
>her doing morally objectionable things like shooting at her current love interest to save the life of her old love interest despite the fact he's just done something completely horrific compromises her relationship to the main character and, given the way things wrap up, leaves things rather unsatisfying
Which is a fair reading.
But it's not the one people tend to use when they give her shit.
In series it's basically Nina going "There's no point to this anymore. I just don't want to see you killing each other."
Fans read it as "I'm spurning you for my ex and I just helped him finish his job."
A lot of the Nina hate requires some serious mental gymnastics that overblows her involvement to make it sound like she is one of the UC's greatest war criminals when the worst she did was prolong the existence of a man who was still going to die a little later anyway.
The worst that can be said in the grander scheme is that she denied Kou the satisfaction of killing the ace himself.
Wow I guess since IBO started airing some faggot started to say "Nina is a well written character and her romantic feeling for GATOOOO was not shoehorned it at all, the director gave subtle hint to her eventual reveal bullshit"
>Around the moment they got to Von Braun.
You mean around the time the show shifted directors/gears?
Yeah. That'd be how a rewrite works.
You watch those first few episodes, there was no indication of anything going on. Even when Nina hears Gato's name in episode 2, there's nothing to indicate any particular recognition that one would expect from someone who just heard their ex stole a nuke-equipped prototype.
>another Zeon Ace that for some reason was never sent against Amuro.
To be fair, considering what Amuro tends to do to Zeon Aces, if Gato was sent against Amuro, he wouldn't be alive to show up in 0083.
There's only one good Gundam OVA and it's War in the Pocket.
Good due to actually being a well told story with weight on its own without having to rely on future events or other pre-existent characters for you to give a shit.
It still had to sell toys so it featured a lot of mechs but it still managed to be a nice story, and of course animation was excellent.
0083 has a lot of problems, and starts really going downhill when there's the director' change, however it's the best looking OVA out of the early Gundam ova bunch, even if it uses fucking stock footage in the final episodes.
Oh you won't get any arguments from me there. Gato is so bland and uninteresting that you could probably replace him with a robot that spouts Zeon slogans every 5minutes and it would probably be an improvement.
I'm honestly amazed why Gato can be so popular or used as a poster boy by so many Zeonfags.
>without having to rely on future events or other pre-existent characters for you to give a shit.
When I saw 0083 I had never seen or even heard of Zeta. It didn't impact my enjoyment at all.
Already waiting and ready. I'm half/half on the potential of this BD. BV posted a promo for the boxset that shows clips from the show, and they look like they're from the 2006 master, which is honestly kind of disappointing, BUT, the background for the interview set has 0083 loaded into a color correction suite, which hints that they might be doing a new transfer or at least improving the existing one.
But I doubt it.
What fantasy land do you live in? Westerners love Mary Sues as much as Japs do. Popular fiction for decades has been filled with them. Bilbo and Frodo Baggins, James Bond, Bella Swan, Harry Potter and so on. A lot of the newer ones are even rather bland the way you're complaining about Japanese ones being.
James Bond as a character is a relic and basically a joke these days.
Bella Swan is a character written for YA for teenage girls.
Bilbo/Frodo and Harry are less to do with the characters and more on their respective franchises as a whole.
Your missing the point. The few people that still like Bond do so ironically. It's like going back and watching an old Arnold movie like Commando or Running Man. It's not the characters themselves that people like, but rather the campiness of them.
Again we see that in LotR and HP. Less about the character, but more about the world they live in. The franchises are bigger than the characters themselves. This is why Hollywood producers chose to continue their respective franchises with films and stories.
I don't even think I need to address how polarizing (read: generally hated) the Twilight saga was.
>I'm honestly amazed why Gato can be so popular or used as a poster boy by so many Zeonfags.
Because SOLOMON I HAVE RETURNED is his most memorable and only good line.
And MUH KILL COUNT.
>The few people that still like Bond do so ironically
Bullshit. Go watch Goldfinger, it's a genuinely good movie with a lot of really well-paced quiet scenes among its one-lines.
Bond being liked "ironically" depended entirely on which Bond we're talking about.
> The few people that still like Bond do so ironically
Yea, I'm sure people like even the newest Bond (actor, not film) to the tune of $3.2 billion ironically. You might only watch him for camp but that's certainly not true of everyone, and personally, I'd say that the re-make of Casino Royale is one of, if not the best Bond film ever made specifically because it plays the whole thing much less camp and low-key. I enjoy some of the Brosnan films for being supremely campy, but I love the Craig ones for not being so at the same time. And I don't like any of them ironically, because liking something ironically is a retarded concept for insecure people who can't admit that they actually like things.
>and it's another Zeon Ace that for some reason was never sent against Amuro.
You are now remembering how the Encounters in Space PS2 game included a little cut scene to suggest Amuro had a harder time against Gato than he did against either Johnny Ridden or Shin Matsunaga.
0083 is like the VOTOMS prequels - the advanced knowledge isn't required, but there are things that are included in there because they assume you've already seen the stuff made before them.
The inclusion of Bask, Haman, and Jamitov, for example. No, the OVA isn't ruined if you haven't seen Zeta. But without it, they're just talking heads with slightly more unique character designs (Haman especially).
They were put in there so people familiar with Zeta could look and go "Oh shit! That's..." when they turned up, even though they don't really do much of anything shy of Bask (sort of).
It didn't impact your enjoyment, but you didn't get the fully intended effect either.
The guy who spends much of the story being constantly saved by other characters? Who is mainly in good graces because he inherited his uncle's cursed item? Whose biggest contribution in the party is taking a roadtrip with a magical monkey on his back, and whose prize at the end is a free spot on Middle Earth's last retirement cruises?
That's what we're calling a Mary Sue now?
It's official. The word is dead. It has no meaning anymore.
You do realize that the nuke was taken to blow up the federation fleet so the federation would lose its trump card and the majority of its forces. Hymen did it all so he could come out on top with his titans.
Of course what hymen plans is still bullshit and so is his convoluted plan for it
I do realize that yes. That doesn't change that Zeon still felt that the only way they could get a nuke was to steal one despite being able to build stuff that is in many ways more complex and expensive on their own, even in one case by one guy in a shed. Hymen might have planned it, but Delaz had to agree to it and he certainly wasn't agreeing to it because it'd help the Federation or the Titans - he thought that blowing up the naval review was a good idea for Zeon and that stealing it was the best way for them to get a nuke.
>Delaz had to agree to it
>agree to it
Delaz was being lead by the nose and didn't realize it.
Damn fool thought everything was going his way because righteous cause and all that. Never even crossed his mind that he was basically playing the fall guy for a Feddie's agenda.
Of course, that's also because the OVA itself treats that reveal as almost an afterthought as well, so...
Yea, I very obviously didn't mean that Hymen and Delaz had a little pow-wow to work out the fine details and then a drink and a handshake afterwards - only that while Hymen planned something out that would benefit him, Delaz had to come to the conclusions that fell in line with Hymen's plans, including that stealing the nuke was the best way to get one so that he could attack the naval review. Which could be termed as agreeing to it. Are you done being pedantic now?
That was a gift from Axis, which was a resource-rich satellite in hiding for years.
>0083 is like the VOTOMS prequels - the advanced knowledge isn't required
I disagree, Pailsen Files makes NO sense if you don't know what an Abnormal Survivor is.
Unless you mean Last Red Shoulder which yeah, it was meant for you to watch after the Woodo arc to begin with.
>leak time and location of naval review
That part isn't really necesary. Naval reviews are highly publicized, celebrated events. They could find out the time and place of that just by reading the newspaper.
Again, not actually the point. The point is that Zeon figured the easiest way to get a nuke was to steal it and an entire suit along with it, rather than build or buy one of their own despite being able to build and buy a lot of other stuff on their own. Stealing it will always be both more risky and more challenging than building one of your own, at least as long as you have the funds and technical capability to do so - which by all accounts they should have. And yet they didn't for some arbitrary reason.
It was more or less adjusting to the times.
It's like when Pierce Brosnan became the newest Bond, people were asking "can James Bond work as a character if the Soviet Union is gone?"
And the reality is you just have to have the character reflect the times.
They made Bond into a troubled man with mom issues.
And it took them three films to kill off his mom.
The only flaw with Craig's tenure is that the first 3 films are pretty much an extended combination of origin story and prologue, it doesn't really feel like his Bond truly starts until they kill off Dench's M in Skyfall. Three films is really stretching it for a narrative arc, in my opinion. It should've been handled during QoS.
Having the resources to build a nuke and the ability to test it two different things.
They definitely weren't going to do it in Side 3 and doing it on Earth without the Feds noticing would've been impossible.
Talk about reflecting the times, whenever I watch Skyfall I cringe a bit at its portrayal of cyberterrorism.
And it's not stuff like making MI6 blow up, that's within my realm of "that's bullshit but I could believe it." It's that whole self-scrambling virus thing that breaks Silva out of his cell, because that's fantastic nonsensical unbelievable bullshit from where I stand.
I mean for fuck's sake just say someone confiscated a Raspberry Pi from him that turned out to be running a program to fuck up the backup base's security protocols. MAC spoof that shit.
Oh but I guess that would bore the viewers wouldn't it?
Yea, I mean, if only there was some wide open space with nothing in it and no-one to disturb close to hand to the colonies they're based out of. Like, some big empty space that no-one is even watching most of the time. Where would anyone possibly find such a space? Space.
I don't have any ideas, how about you anon? Space.
You are vastly underestimating the size of space and overestimating the size of a nuclear explosion - especially one taking place in space, where the blast radius is considerably smaller than one taking place within an atmosphere. A second sun is a hilariously overblown description. Someone standing on Earth might notice a bit of light in the sky for a 10 or 20 seconds, but only if they happened to be looking in the right direction at the right time. Even then they'd probably just chalk it up to an atmospheric anomaly or something and not immediately go "wait a minute...that could only be a nuclear explosion!" Same for someone in any of the other colonies.
How exactly? It's not like the release of a shit tonne of radiation is going to make much of a difference given that space is already flooded with the stuff all the time. And the heat is going to go un-noticed if you're not looking for it either.
Case in point, did you know that it's believed that the Japanese doomsday cult Aum Shinrikyo may have detonated the world's first civilian nuclear device back in the 90s? I say may, because it's only a possibility and no-one (or at least no-one willing to talk) can say for definite. There was a seismic blast in the Australian outback at a place called Banjawarn Station that they owned that was consistent with a nuclear explosion and they were known to have hired several scientists with a specialty in that area along with purchase of the station itself. The only people who noticed if they did detonate one though were some long range truckers who noticed the ground shaking, and some seismic measurement devices monitoring the area.
Unless you're very, very lucky and just happen to monitoring the area with the right equipment at the right time you're not going to catch squat.
Did you not read this article?
>"The Urban Geoscience Division of the Australian Geological Survey Organisation determined that the seismic traces of the event "showed similar characteristics consistent with typical seismic activity for Western Australia," and that the event was most likely an earthquake."
> explosion only a few hundred meters in diameter
> seen by millions light seconds away
> millions happening to be looking out a window at the exact right moment spot a tiny ass light in the middle of a bunch of other tiny ass lights
> gee, there's only one thing that could possibly be
Gosh, if only space weren't always flooded with that same radiating energy and so it was really kind of impossible to actually measure the difference within short order. Even a really large nuclear explosion would be almost impossible to detect within the space of a few hours more than likely, possibly a lot less.
Ah, my apologies, I misunderstood the thrust of your argument. The thing about that is, a ground level blast is going to release a lot of radiation, but in a relatively small area. Banjawarn is not a small place. It's nearly a million acres and the seismic monitors that picked it up are unlikely to be able to give a particularly precise location. No-one even picked up on the possibility that the seismic activity might be related to Aum for nearly half a decade after the event because it's a huge area with next to no-one living in it. They could go out and try and see if they can find some radiation to account for it, but as far as I know, no-one has ever done so for a very simple reason: because no-one really cares. It's too big an area and no-one cares enough to search because it won't make any difference whether it's true or not.
The few people who reported it at the time reported seeing a fire ball in the sky and it was only a few years later anyone did any research in to the matter when it was realized that Aum had been the ones owning the property. Aum, how had a couple of former soviet nuclear engineers on the payroll and a declared interest in the matter. I'm not by any means saying it's definitive or even that it's particularly likely - only that it is possible, and that we'll never know because finding out for definite is difficult enough that no-one cares to do so.
In the scenario originally suggested of Zeon testing in space, it'd be almost impossible to detect at the time or afterwards.
It is a kooky conspiracy theory. All the proof that exists is the stuff I've mentioned basically and the reason that that's all the proof that exists and that no-one is looking for more is the reason I gave: no-one cares. Aum is dead and gone and was already by the time people realized that they had been the ones holding the property. The only reason people checked in to it at all was out of idle curiosity when they put the story of a fireball in the sky with the known information they had had nuclear scientists on the payroll and a declared interest in doomsday scenarios. No-one's going to go out combing the desert for nuclear radiation though because it's a huge area and not worth the bother. It's possible, but whether it's true or not is unlikely to ever really be known.
It's an Australian tabloid thing more than likely. You can tell simply because it's discussing Australia at all, which basically no-one outside Australia does barring monumental events originating there.