>War isn't a good thing >War isn't something that is going to go away anytime soon >The best thing a person can do doing War is fight for the most moral end >Pacifism, while ideal, is nowhere near practical
>>13758802 Yes, War is a part of Human Nature, The only way to get eternal peace is by killing all of human race. But Gundam also teaches us to always believe in the human potential, no matter how bleak the future is, always has hope for a better future always believe in the human heart and be prepared for it.
Why would a show obligatory need a moral ? Can't it just portray wars as bloody and inconclusive as it can be ?
The only Gundam show which really had a "moral" was Gundam 0080 War in the Pocket, and still, it doesn't force an Aesop down our throat.
Of course, if Gundam had stopped after the One Year War, we wouldn't have an "Constant and Eternal War" subtext, it would have simply looked like a WWII-IN-SPACE conclusive ending with no new "fight for the survival of dogs bound by gravity".
>>13759655 Portraying war as bloody and inconclusive is a moral statement in itself. My issue is that everyone already knows war is hell. Countless books, movies, shows, etc. have stated this ad infinitum. You really need to work a new angle on that theme if you want your story to be compelling nowadays.
The actual message is that it is impossible to escape from conflict, even if you fly away from earth in a cylinder or destroy every weapon with a butterfly, and that nothing can change that not even space magic
>>13759712 That's an opinion I can respect. but, formulaic show don't need to redefine their topic every time, and so far Gundam did it enough at some occasion. A war between Superpower is different from a war against extremist faction (Titan), political remnant, eco-terrorist and so on, but it boil down to lot of shooting, mistake being made, burger eating, dropped colony, Tomino having a field day and advertising brand new Gunpla.
That said, although i LOVE the original minovsky physics and recognize bullshit when it's said physics isn't used, I think Gundam need to die for us to finally get something new.
>>13759993 Works for just about everything they try it on. Doctor Who and Kamen Rider benefited from it. I'm still waiting for the triumphant return of Metal Heroes, but maybe it hasn't been long enough. The Sharivan and Shaider V-Cinemas were great.
>>13759655 >Why would a show obligatory need a moral ? Can't it just portray wars as bloody and inconclusive as it can be ? It's basically impossible to tell a story about something without commenting the thing in some way.
>>13760949 > It's basically impossible to tell a story about something without commenting the thing in some way.
Yes you can, it's not even hard, even a lone author can dim his own bias and depict a War from different perspective without forcing an interpretation or a moral. And when you have several author it get easier because their bias can nullify some of the others.
How those stories turn out ? They have multiple aspects or interpretation that do not lead to an unequivocal moral. like "W won the war but keep oppressing Y, Y methods were horrible but their reasons to fight were right" or "X won because they didn't wasted money on infinite prototype, but like Y they wouldn't have won without testing several prototypes, maybe X just got lucky, or Y would have won given equal resources"
I'll go as far as saying there is usually no moral in a good story. A good story manage to make you feel like REALITY and the real world don't have hilariously bad moral like Jack Chick tract. IRL everything just happen without a plan behind.
>>13761201 Showing that everything happens with no plan, that is to say attempting to remove yourself as a writer in order to reflect reality, is itself commentary. Whenever you tell a story, your intent, the reason you decided to spend time writing the story to begin with, shines through.
All in all, the "war is bad" message Gundam still holds on to is especially valuable in the current world we live in, where even one-sided unprovoked and baseless invasions are undertaken by people who are supposed to be the civilized, positive forces in the world. Worse yet is how the militaries of said countries just hoover in every Mike and Bob over 18, which is barely high enough an age for a person to attain maturity and responsibility for holding a job, let alone deciding who to kill and who to spare. And then combine it with the constant glorification of war in news media, video games, movies, TV series, comics, cartoons, anime, and to an extent even Gundam itself, and the fact that the poorest, usually the dumbest and most dead-end youthed ones rarely see better alternatives for a steady wage than the army, well... I'd say the world would be in more mature and intelligent hands with Gundam protagonists rather than the teenage jarheads doing the fighting, and the war profiteers and heroism masturbators that instigate them.
I don't know why you think that'll do any good, because just putting one franchise down won't automatically make a good show in it's place. The company working on it won't be any more inclined to make a show that is good, by whatever definition of the word good you want to use, nor will any of the people working on it.
A good show will come along regardless of whether there's another big franchise in place or not, because it's the skill and care of the people making it that matters, not whether there's already something out there or not.
>>13758802 There's a general theme of vengeance in MSG. Char's revenge against the Zabis, Haman's and Icelina's suicide attacks on white base to avenge their lovers' deaths and Char's and Amuro's mutual grudge for Lala's death. It always shows that vengeance leads to tragedy.
I KNEW I should have added the line : "Do not confuse the plot with a moral"
It's not the same things and one don't call the other !! A moral in itself is something so utterly subjective that viewers can end up ignoring the author's intents and consider a story to mean something else entirely, assuming they agree on something on particular. You can even say it's the opposite, a story have to put a lot of effort for a moral to appear. Note that it doesn't make a story any better or worse.
Even Gundam's "War is bad" accepted moral isn't really one, it's more of a description of how it happen in the very specific context of Gundam. Many would gladly argue that warring against Zabi dictator and terrorist is more than justified. Or that the problem isn't the war but the corruption in the Federation...etc
Likewise, one could say the moral is : "Don't force space emigration, they'll bite you in the ass later" and it fail as soon as forced emigration is considered to have prevented the extinction of mankind from asteroid (or itself).
So no, moral don't come packaged within any story
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