He wanted to reawaken their fighting spirit and make the moonrace (what he thought would be) strong again. It is pretty clear by this he means newtypes as they are pretty much they tend to make for strong pilots. Loran who has been fighting for a while obviously is able to unlock this potential in him
It's part of Tomino's "none of you fucks got this newtype stuff is not all that great" he's been doing since zeta
Tomino has outright confirmed in interviews that no-one in Turn-A was a newtype. At least not yet. They all had the potential to be according to him, but none of them were. And there's not supposed to be anything in the series showing them using newtype powers, so it's possible that moment was an overlooked bit of animation error or something.
>>13753344 I'd believe that if the show did... anything at all, really, with it. The only mildly newtypey moment from Loran is when he somehow manages to carry an entire conversation in slo-mo in the middle of a brawl.
>>13755315 There was a an episode called "The Sound of a Newtype" anon. Bellri has a whole bit where he feels Rockpie die and Mashner is meant to make the viewer wonder if she is a newtype or crazy cause from the outside they look the same
There's no such thing as half a newtype anon, and no, there's no other moments of newtype style stuff in Turn-A. Someone once suggested there was a newtype moment between Gym and Loran late in the show while they're fighting when the camera cuts away their cockpits or something, but it's just dramatic moments and they're still speaking to each other in the normal (Gundam) way: over their comms while they fight.
>>13755375 >There's no such thing as half a newtype anon Actually yes there is. Many gundam shows have shown you don't just magic up and become a full one but it is a process where you grow into it. Amuro was not a newtype at the start of 0079 but he does have some little flashes which slowly increase.
Also when Loran fights Teteth his eyes glow and he is able to predict her movement, that whole bit could not be more clear. You have absolutely zero evidence these moments are animation errors, especially when ones like the OP are screen filling and prolonged so someone would have caught it. No one has ever commented on them to say this was a mistake >just dramatic moments You keep trying to talk away moments but when there is a decent enough amount of moments and it makes sense for the story. The it's an error argument has way less to back it up and nothing direct. honestly I don't think /m/ should be allowed Tomino interviews as they don't get he speaks Tomino speak not just writes it
While the Turn A prequel manga is questionable canon, it says that the moonrace were made from newtype spacenoid colonists that returned once they got bored. At worst this shows that the general intention of what newtypes are in turn a is understood
Harry also gets this cool cybernetic suit and newtype goop comes out a portal
> Many Gundam shows have shown you don't just magic up and become a full one
No, they've shown you don't just immediately become used to being a newtype from the get go and that the power slowly grows over time, but as soon as you start getting those flashes and stuff: congratulations, you're a newtype. Kamille was getting them from the first episode of Zeta and Bright, Char and company were wondering from the start if he was a newtype. They weren't wondering if he'd become one, they were wondering if he was one, despite only showing flashes at that point.
> his eyes glow and he is able to predict her movement
No, he isn't. She's hits him several times in a repeated pattern and after a couple of hits he manages to grab her arm and throw her when she's throwing big open punches. There's nothing superhuman about that. You might as well claim Kihel is a newtype because she managed to block Teteth's shot using a pad. Or that Midgard is a newtype for managing to hit her between the eyes with a bullet while she's being flipped.
> You have absolutely zero evidence these moments are animation errors
You mean besides Tomino flat out saying that there are no newtypes in Turn-A and that he didn't want them in it since it would contradict how he thought they'd act so that anything indicating they were there is likely to be against his wishes as animation director of the show? Sure, besides that I have nothing.
> No one has ever commented on them to say this was a mistake
They rarely comment on an animation errors or filming errors in anything to say they were a mistake. Nowadays anime is sometimes fixed up for the home release, but you still don't get any kind of announcement that such and such a moment was an animation error. It may not be an animation error, but if it isn't, then it is at most simply dramatic licence used to give scenes more impact or visual shorthand and not supposed to be indicative of any use of newtype powers on the part of the show. We don't even need Tomino's quote to suppose that, because beyond little bits of dramatic flair like that, newtypes play no part in the show. They don't impact events in any way, shape or form, they don't reinforce it's themes and they don't even make the viewer or the characters question things in minor ways like in G-Reco.
> there is a decent amount of moments
Not really. There's, what...3 possible ones that people have thrown up over the course of a 50 episodes show between Teteth, the Adeskan King and Gym, all of which have simple alternate explanations between dramatic license and normal human behavior. Even the thing with the Adeskan king comes off solely as the two of them having an implicit understanding of each other, as in normal human empathy and not super special Newtype brand (tm) empathy. Gym and Loran are reacting to Corin's death, with the camera cutting away their cockpits for emphasis as they talk. Their lips even continue to move a bit as it happens, just in slow mo. They're talking normally before it, they're talking normally after it and they don't say anything particularly deep or betraying of hidden emotions or motives during that time for newtypism to be necessary to explain it.
Newtypes never come up as a concept, they don't play in to the themes the show sets, newtypism has no effect on the story and the actual creator has flat out said that he didn't intend to have them in it because it would go against how he thought of the characters.
The original post said that Gym wanted to revive newtypes because he saw them as strong warriors who would lead the Moonrace out of stagnation but that's rubbish: he's a war fanboy and is unlikely to even be aware of newtypes given he had no idea about the black history beyond the name and they're never mentioned in the show. He wants to revive combat itself since he's a soldier who's never had to fight beyond training and thus thinks he lacks purpose. He flat out says this. He thinks people are only strong when they clash physically and that the desire to fight is an important part of the human condition whose suppression is making people weak and society stagnant. He says that in the show too. He isn't talking about birthing newtypes when he says he wants to make the Moonrace strong, he's talking about being more open about conflict and not suppressing what he sees as an essential part of humanity.
Which puts him in stark contrast with Agrippa Maintainer who finds conflict barbarous and wants to stop all conflict, including shipping anyone who displays what he considers combative nature off to Earth for the good of the Moonrace. And with Dianna, who is a moderate in comparison and while she doesn't encourage conflict and spends most of the show trying to stop an unnecessary war, is willing to use and condone it to stop someone like Gym who is an external threat that she knows cannot be talked out of fighting. Newtypes don't come it to it. Nor are they necessary to explain any of it.
> Tomino speak
/m/ shouldn't be allowed to talk about Tomino-speak, because people just use it as a way to avoid having to deal with what him or his shows say.
>>13755553 You spend way too much time not saying a lot. the prolongue comments make it obvious you have little eviudence to actually back your points up so pontificate till tehy sound good
>t the power slowly grows over time Good we agree. It you want to go down that road of exact definition you will never get anywhere, especially as you are working off your own definition and assuming it is Tomino's. Are the white base crew newtypes cause they have so minor ability yet they aren't getting obvious flashes? Your definition doesn't hold
>No, he isn't. Look at the fucking picture anon >>13755465 that is newtype bullshit
>Tomino flat out saying that there are no newtypes We are discussing what is meant by that. No one has every directly said it was an error. At best you have to use a interview which can be argued what it meant to say there was an error no one ever admitted to. Also this is an interview years after, Ridely Scott has gone back and forth a million times on if Deckard is a replicant so this kind of evidence is shaky at best
>They rarely comment on an animation errors Then you don't have anything decent to support you. This is a company who went and redrew a load of SEED for it's release. >most simply dramatic licence By making their eyes glow and become physic exactly like newtype stuff does? Hell of a coincidence
>There's, what...3 And you have, an interview done years after the show that never even talks about animation errors. Which is more likely there anon. 3 moments of a certain spin on an interview done much later?
>Newtypes never come up as a concept, they don't play in to the themes the show sets Gym's whole plan is very obviously referring to newtypes, awakening a warrior spirit in them. He doesn't need to know the word newtypes to know this as he comes from a family of warriors who have obviously fed him down infomation about how great and strong they are
Pro-newtype An prologue talk with an effect put over the top Flashing eyes Characters seemingly talking over a distance but you can suppose it is comms It can make logical sense from a story stand point An official prequel manga of questionable canon pushes the moonrace are dormant newtypes The moonlight butterfly is labelled a newtype weapon in some side materials (but made unclear if it needs a newtype to run or does better with one)
Anti-newtype An interview with Tomino made many years later taken a certain way A suggestion or animation with admittedly no way to prove Statement Gym doesn't know makes more sense
The anti camp has far less and far weaker evidence
> Are the White Base crew newtypes cause they have so minor an ability yet they aren't getting obvious flashes? Your definition doesn't hold.
My definition isn't "Are they getting flashes? Then they're a newtype". My definition is "Are they displaying newtype abilities of any kind in a show that explicitly has newtypes and relies heavily upon them". The White Base crew do, no matter how minor. No-one in Turn-A does, because the show never makes anything of newtypes and the few scenes that are there are easily explainable without needing newtypes.
> Look at the fucking picture anon, that is newtype bullshit
You mean the way it's distinctly different from the normal newtype flash? Yea, that sure does prove that's a newtype moment alright. Normal newtype flash is the iris literally flashes extremely quickly as a very particular sound effect plays. That moment in Turn-A Loran's entire eyes glow for a second or two and there's no sound effect. It's distinct from the newtype flash, and there's probably a reason for that.
> We are discussing what is meant by that.
So he says that there are no Newtypes and you think there's some other interpretation other than that there are no newtypes? Okay.
> At best you have to use an interview which can be argued what it meant
He wasn't asked about those moments in the interview, so he has no reason to talk about them. I'm not saying that interview clearly shows they're an animation error, I'm saying that interview clearly says that he didn't intend to have newtypes in Turn-A and that we can suppose reasons for those animation sequences from that statement.
> By making their eyes glow and become psychic exactly like newtype stuff does? Hell of a coincidence.
Well being that (a) it's not exactly the same and (b) a lot of the use of newtype stuff over the years has been as short hand to make things quicker and simpler within the shows, not really. None of the sequences are identical to normal newtype stuff. They're similar, but all distinctly different at the same time.
> Which is more likely there anon? 3 moments of a certain spin or an interview done much later?
The interview. By a long shot, at least when those moments are all only kind of similar and newtypism plays no part in the actual show.
> Gym's whole plan is very obviously referring to newtypes, awakening a warrior spirit in them
I completely disagree anon. I think there's absolutely nothing to support that reading in the entire show and the fact that all you can muster is "well he wants strong warriors and they're strong warriors" is evidence there is none. You don't need to invoke newtypes at all to get meaning from his motives and actions and given that he doesn't say a thing about them, him acting specifically to awaken them, even as a nameless concept is in my opinion, just plain silly.
>>13755426 >>13755369 >>13755365 I meant to say that they don't control their suits with newtype bullshit which is great, i'm glad newtypes are going back to hyper perceptible humans instead of the post-zeta jedi bullshit
> sidestory manga, novel re-tellings and franchise meta-games being taken as indicative of the television show > listing several things as possibly indicating newtypes in the pro-newtype list but leaving them out of the anti-newtype list despite the fact it's not clear either way > never clarifying why it's logical from a story stand point
Tomino mentioned that the characters of the show may become newtypes but are not currently newtypes and thinks everyone is born a newtype and after 3 days becomes an oldtype as society grinds away the things that make people a newtype in the first place, so yea, it'd be no surprise that the Moonrace are all dormant newtypes, because basically everyone is. It still doesn't mean that Loran is one in the show.
I am curious what this prologue talk thing is about though? I honestly have no idea what people are referring to with that.
So why doesn't it make sense? None of the effects used are the classic newtype ones, nothing changes regardless of whether anyone in the cast is a newtype or an oldtype and newtypes are neither brought up in the story or relevant to the show on any level.
>>13756719 Your green text barely makes sense. Absence of support is not support, especially when it is something like the novels which aren't translated and we have no idea what happens. Why would list side material that clearly supports in the non category?
>never clarifying why it's logical from a story stand point follow the chain
Given that one of the listings is "the moonlight butterfly is listed as a newtype use weapon but never clarified if this means newtype only or enhanced by newtypes" then it could support either, but is only listed in one. The dormant newtypes thing isn't actually support of it, since a dormant newtype isn't an active newtype and the entire point is that Loran isn't an active newtype according to Tomino, but that the cast are all dormant ones who may become newtypes in future.
The best the chain has to say is "Gym was obviously referring to newtypes", which no-one has ever clarified why he would be beyond "because they're strong warriors", nor how that serves the story. Keep in mind that Cumpa in G-Reco has basically the exact same motive and despite newtypes coming up in the show, he also fails to make any mention of his plans being about them and his plans also work perfectly well without supposing he's really trying to achieve a newtype society.
I'm not agreeing, I'm just asking what difference it makes and for someone to clarify how it doesn't make sense even if we were to suppose that Tomino was saying something stupid so that you don't have to actually try to account for his interview.
I have used it in defense of my theory, but only ever in conjunction with points from the show itself like how nothing actually changes in the show in terms of events, themes or characterization regardless of whether anyone is a newtype or not. So why don't you try refuting that instead of attacking me or my posts?
>>13756903 >then it could support either No it could not. It can support pro as that infomation would make it so. It not being a newtype weapon does not suggest they aren't newtypes, if it was a weapon that doesn't work with newtypes it would be. You can't walk up and say look this thing might work because newtypes so Loran isn't one, that isn't a logical statement.
>The dormant newtypes thing isn't actually support of it Actually it very much does. the arguement used if you followed this is they are dormant and war is making them wake up and have little moments of the ability.
>which no-one has ever clarified >beyond "because they're strong warriors", How is that not exactly that. It can very easily refer to newtype potential as he is talking about war with MS and what would in that case be a warrior spirit to be a awakened? Also if you had followed the chain you'd have got >. He doesn't need to know the word newtypes to know this as he comes from a family of warriors who have obviously fed him down infomation about how great and strong they are
>nor how that serves the story A detail doesn't have to be super important to the story to be present.
They became surprisingly likable once they thought Corin was dead and they were able to escape his tyranny. The Moon worshipping hippies too. Cancer and Muron drifting off in to the void drinking sake after helping Dianna is pretty sad once you actually get a better feel for them as characters despite the annoying start with them chanting around the campfire.
You forget that Loran isn't the only one that uses the Moonlight Butterfly. In fact, there's several people that use it. Loran, Gym, Merrybell and Joseph all use it at various points. It's never suggested that Joseph is a newtype for instance. And yet he can use it.
> the argument used if you followed this is they are dormant and war is making them wake up
The argument is that Tomino flat out said they're not newtypes and only may become them in future and thus that nothing they do in the show is indicative of them having awoken at any point. So if they haven't awoken they are still dormant, and so the information that all the Moonrace folks are dormant newtypes isn't contradictory. Not that a side story manga is really a definitive source, but it doesn't contradict either veiwpoint regardless.
> How is that not exactly that?
Because it doesn't say why it would need to be newtypes specifically and not just soldiers and war in general, given that war is often held to be a driving force of humanity and technology that energizes them and drives people forward even in the real world where we have no newtypes. I'd say that it also fails to account for why Tomino wouldn't just have Gym or someone in the show specifically state he's talking about newtypes since there's no reason to hide it if that's what he's trying to work towards, but the first part is more important.
> A detail doesn't have to be super important to the story to be present
You're right. However, if it's a minor thing whose existence is so sketchy as to arguably not be there at all and that doesn't impact the story one way or the other though and the creator comes out and flat out states that that minor detail doesn't exist then why suppose it's there at all?
>>13757000 Again, none of that is proof they are all none newtypes, it is suggestion that the moonlight butterfly is not a newtype weapon
>The argument is that Tomino flat This point has been gone over a million times now and you aren't adding anything new. Go read another comment on it as I have nothing new to say about it and there are many points you have even considered there such as the Ridely Scott on deckard being a replicant
>would need When was need to be said? It was said this is a theory that can fit nicely > Tomino wouldn't just have Gym or someone in the show specifically state Oh cause Tomino is known for being so direct and obvious with his points > no reason to hide You didn't even read the point I brought back that would address this.
>You're right. Good. Then you go back into. Absence of support is not support. At best you are making one point on the much longer list of evidence a bit more questionable
So you made all these replies to tell me one point may not be all that great but not disproving it and to still push the evidence I listed earlier as supporting anti? well done
> it is a suggestion that the Moonlight Butterfly is not a newtype weapon
Yes, and the side material saying it is one is only a suggestion too given it's questionable canonicity.
> This point has been gone over a million times now and you aren't adding anything new
Because you haven't actually said anything that provided any kind of solid argument against the creators word on the matter. You've offered some supposition that it may be open to interpretation and so on, but really, none of it actually trumps a definitive statement like that.
> you haven't even considered there such as Ridley Scott on Deckard being a replicant
Because Tomino isn't Ridley Scott. He hasn't been shown to have changed his mind on the matter over the course of the last decade or more despite at least two interviews 5 years apart asking him about it so saying someone else has a changable nature has no real bearing on Tomino.
> It was said that this is a theory that can fit nicely
Let me put it a different way then: why would he be referring to newtypes specifically instead of soldiers in general? What does the story or his character gain by going for newtypes specifically?
> Oh cause Tomino is known for being so direct and obvious with his points
He might not be known for it, but he is actually extremely direct with his points most of the time. Most of his shows, G-Reco included has characters literally say their motivations out loud. He might be subtle with some of the details, but he's not at all subtle about the bigger stuff. Dianna, Loran, Sochie, Kihel, Guin and the rest of the major characters in the show all baldly state their motives and goals in no uncertain times, why would Gym be an exception?
>You didn't even read the point I brought back that woudl address this
The line that "he doesn't need to know the word newtype to be referring to them" doesn't address why Tomino would hide it, only how Gym might be referring to it regardless of Tomino.
> Absence of support is not support
An ironic statement given that you're referring to Gym and newtypes with this statement and yet there's nothing supporting that within the show, only your vague hypothesis that he may be referring to it.
> You made all these replies to tell me one point may not be all that great
I made it to continue a discussion and point out that the list is rather weighted towards an obvious bias but I get the feeling you neither want to be a part of a discussion or like being part of it. I'd suggest that you simply stop replying since you seem to not actually want to be part of it at all and only to tell me to fuck off and stop talking to you.
Thread replies: 61 Thread images: 8
Thread DB ID: 428239
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the shown content originated from that site. This means that 4Archive shows their content, archived. If you need information for a Poster - contact them.
If a post contains personal/copyrighted/illegal content, then use the post's [Report] link! If a post is not removed within 24h contact me at email@example.com with the post's information.