>>13734521 >The Bolt Gundam could probably bench press the Turn A I assume most Gundams could lift each other since they tend to be on the implausibly light side. Though Mk-II would probably struggle with Psyco's weight.
I fail to see how. Nothing it has even remotely touches on the power or utility of the moonlight butterfly. The Turn-A also has a shield that would appear to be at least as strong as the G-Self's, but able to spread much, much further. It's stomach cannons appear to operate identically to the G-Selfs, just in a forward cone rather than a spherically. If you want to bring the manual in to it, then it's also unlikely to be stronger, since the manual is where all the really bullshit Turn-A stuff like colony lasers, teleportation, pilot regeneration and so on comes in to things.
Only according to the manuals. Gym's comments in show that the Turn-A is the older brother of the pair contradict the stuff the manuals say about the Turn-X being found on the edge of the solar system and suggest that, at least in the anime, they were both developed terrestrially and never meant for intergalactic warfare.
>>13734605 But that's not what he said. Loran said something about the Turn-X being able to do things the Turn A couldn't. Gym replies that more abilities were granted to the younger brother, and that the Turn X was made to surpass the Turn A.
>>13738209 This is true. The Turn A may have succeeded in dusting all the earth's tech, but Devil was well on its way to absorbing the whole planet. Tech, people, plants, animals, everything. Also the on-screen growth, repair, and assimilation speed put the MLB to shame. Colony Devil grew a system of roots that reached from orbital height to the surface of the whole planet in seconds.
Devil is easily one of the most powerful MS in the franchise. I don't thing it would win in a fight against the Turns when they're full Butterfly, I do think that the Devil's ability to terraform a planet is far more impressive than turning tech into dust.
And personally, in a 1v1 fight, I don't either of the Turns would survive Physalis with a hot nuke.
The Turns both have nuclear energy shielding. You can see it in the series when Loran throws the nukes at the asteroid fragment around episode 40 or something. It seems to be related to the moonlight butterfly, since it has a kind of rainbow effect when it's used. It only protects the units from the actual radiation though by the looks of things, and not from the actual heat or pressure of a nuke. The chances of a Gundam being hit by something as big, slow and obvious as a nuke or even it's blast wave, especially in space where it's much reduced compared to Earth is fucking tiny though.
I don't even know what exactly he said, but I do know it's going to be about episode 43 or 44 because that's when the two Turns first fight and it's there that Gym mentions something about them being brothers if I recall.
>>13740338 Turn-A was well outside the blast zone in both instances. I doubt it would survive being at ground zero.
Although it does not mention it in the show or even in the fluff, there is no allusion to the Turns being able to survive a nuclear blast. I'm sure they are shielded to some degree against the heat and shock, but not a direct hit. Otherwise there wouldn't have been no point for Loran to chuck the old warheads some distance before detonating them -- he would've just done it while he was still on the asteroid. Also we've seen the Turn-A get damaged numerous times on the show by weapons no where near as devastating as a nuclear warhead.
I wouldn't be surprised, but I wouldn't consider the novel version the same as the animated version or relevant to this argument personally, since no-one here has access to it. I don't care about the stuff in the manuals either, since it's just fluff and not actually something that happens in the show.
> Turn-A was well outside the blast zone in both instances
No, it wasn't. It was close enough to the blast zone during the first nuclear detonation to be thrown forward by it's pressure wave while it was only feet from the limit of the blast zone in the second instance as per pic. That is not by any measure well outside it. I very much doubt it'd survive a direct nuclear blast either, which is basically what I was trying to say with the post you replied to. However, I don't think any Gundam has ever been hit by a nuclear blast and I don't think the Turn-A would be either - they're just too easy for a mobile suit to either shoot down or avoid.
> Otherwise there wouldn't have been no point for Loran to chuck the old warheads some distance before detonating them
Well, to be fair, Loran wasn't that familiar with the extent of the Turn-A's capabilities. He had read at least some of the manual and knew of some of it's abilities, but he had no idea it had the beam shield it uses to protect Dianna's palace or the Moonlight Butterfly, both of which take place after he's been using it for 40 odd episodes and after he chucks the nukes. If he could be surprised by those it's entirely possible the unit could be tougher than he realizes and built to tank nukes. I don't think it is myself, but I wouldn't be using the way he acts as any indication since it's an actual plot point that he has no idea of the unit's true capabilities.
> we've seen the Turn-A get damaged numerous times in the show by weapons no where near as devastating as a nuclear warhead
Not really. It's damaged all of twice in the show. Numerous is stretching it a bit. Once by a punch from Harry Ord's SUMO and once by the Turn-X's beam saber in the finale. And the SUMO punch is a really weird instance given that at various points in the show before and after that it no sells stuff that should hit far, far harder than that. It tanks dozens of beam shots from Turn-X's beam cannons, it tanks missiles from WaDs and physical trauma from Corin's Eagel. Corin was using his unit to literally jump up and down on the Turn-A and it's head to bash the Turn-A on numerous instances at least as hard as the SUMO punch. And yet nothing. I'm sure there's some way to explain it, but the show makes no effort to and it comes off quite oddly because of it.
Having just checked the episode Loran says that he thinks the Turn-A should be the older brother, but Gym only says that the "other" brother was given more capabilities. He might say older or younger in a different episode though.
>>13734521 Doesn't the Turn A's limbs move by it manipulating its I Field, there's no actual motors or whatever in the limbs to move them? I remember reading that somewhere and that was the explanation for why that Zaku did what it did to it. Because Motors>I Fields.
I believe the manual says so, but there's no real need for an explanation. When the fight begins the Zaku throws a punch and the Turn-A catches it and is surprised that the Turn-A's reaction time is lower. If it's off in that regard, it may also not be able to use full motive power. As is, the only thing that happens to it is that the Zaku pushes it back once and then Loran grabs the Zaku's head and is clearly in control of the fight before he notices Bruno and Jacop drive off with the goods he was originally transporting. It's just as possible he let himself get pushed back to break the grapple as that the Turn-A was overpowered.
>>13740326 >I don't thing it would win in a fight against the Turns when they're full Butterfly You DO realize that the MLB nanos are DG Cells, right? >stand in front of Devil Gundam >release huge cloud of Devil Gundam Cells >it just gets bigger >bestplanever.jpg
>>13740925 >Some day you're going to explain why you think it's stronger rather than just posting that image and leaving it at that. Something something antimatter with i-field catalyst from one of the staff's twitter
>>13741809 >You DO realize that the MLB nanos are DG Cells, right? That's from the G Generation games, later used in a Turn A novel written by some random dude (there are two novelizations, one by Tomino and one by some other dude). It's non-canon as fuck.
>>13741824 Other than the fact that DG cells are inferior? DG cells are just nanomachines that are good at reproducing. Even their copy humans are just that, robotic copies. We've seen countless times that when a DG human is restored they're not human anymore, they're made of DG cells. The MLB is also shielded, demonstrated by their ability to easily block high-end beam weaponry and overpower I-fields strong enough to block physical objects (even locking the Turn X itself in stasis), yet somehow DG cells, which have no protection are somehow going to eat the MLB? Are you literally retarded? The only reason the Colony Devil Gundam had any defenses was because it took over Neo-Japan's defense system. The DG Cells on their own have no protection, ex. EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE OF DG CELLS BEING DESTROYED. Gundam heads? Even the fucking Windmill Gundam can destroy them. DG cell infected humans and corpses? They literally turn to dust in the basic Shining Finger (done to the DG mummy). Even the DG cell enhanced MS are nothing special, they're just difficult to destroy with conventional weaponry because they regenerate quickly.
>>13741869 >The only reason the Colony Devil Gundam had any defenses was because it took over Neo-Japan's defense system. Did you miss the part where the Manhattan Island battleship blasted it with a colony laser which did jack shit to it?
>They literally turn to dust in the basic Shining Finger Shining Finger isn't "basic" in any way, shape, or form. Mobile fighters are above and beyond any other suits in the franchise and their pilots have abilities that make Newtypes look like crippled toddlers. Let me put this into perspective for you. Someone like Michelo Chariot, who is low-tier by Gundam Fighter standards, can kick bullets out of the air. Mobile Fighters AMPLIFY the already superhuman abilities of their pilots and yet the strongest Gundam Fighters in the entire solar system were still getting their asses whooped by the Devil Gundam.
>>13741869 >That's from the G Generation games, later used in a Turn A novel written by some random dude (there are two novelizations, one by Tomino and one by some other dude). It's non-canon as fuck. lol no. That's from Tomino's setting notes for Turn A. Tomino did not write EITHER of the novels. The novel that is considered canon (by people who consider novels canon, anyway) is the one that's based on Tomino's ideas, everyone pretty much just ignores the other novel. >>13741824 >how weak MLB is compared to DG cells, I wouldn't say so. Tomino's notes called them "Perfected DG Cells", which is pretty silly considering how many episodes it took them to heal a twisted moustache compared to Devil spontaneously regenerating whole plates of armor in a flash.
>>13741934 >>The only reason the Colony Devil Gundam had any defenses was because it took over Neo-Japan's defense system. >Did you miss the part where the Manhattan Island battleship blasted it with a colony laser which did jack shit to it? Can you even read? Are you seriously retarded? Urube even outright states that they were using their barrier to protect Neo-Japan. And no it wasn't a fucking colony laser. In the first place the Neo Manhattan block is just a small cluster of skyscrapers and the jumbo Statue of Liberty. And the beam was small enough that it launched from Statue of Liberty's torch. There's zero evidence to show that the beam is as powerful as a colony laser, which uses the entire colony and by size alone it's probably much smaller.
>>13741934 Except it is basic. No, they aren't. Are you seriously retarded? Not even the God Gundam has ever shown to have the kind of firepower necessary to blow apart an entire island (DX), or generate the same amount of energy consumed by a medium-sized city (Wing's basic Buster Rifle at 1 full power shot, 3 shots total), or leave a massive scar on a moon-sized living machine. The only feats the God Gundam, the strongest MF in the entire fucking show, has going for it is God Shadow and flying into the mesosphere, which even the V2 can do. You G Gundam fanboys are completely deluded.
The FIGHTERS having super human reflexes means nothing when their suits odn't measure up. The Mobile Fighters amplifying feats that are basically street-tier metahuman shit isn't impressive. The DX wastes an entire island, and its clash with the Frost brothers created an explosion that engulfed 1/4 of the moon's surface. The Qan[T]'s Trans-AM beam broke through the crust of the ELS moon, which already has far greater durability than just moonrock. The Wing Zero has a decent record itself.
>>13741958 By the way, the God Gundam is crap when it's actually in a pinch. Fly into the mesosphere? Okay. Cross an island that's like 2km across because your friends are in mortal danger? Slow as shit, even though Domon screams "GODDU DASH!" like it's a fucking special move.
Oh, and we're not even bringing up the God Unicorn, which repairs itself while tanking an actual colony laser and then gains the power to automatically shut down any MS it sees. Or even the fresh, Black History Turn A turning Earth's tech to dust, even though that Earth had the technology to create it in the first place.
Let's put it this way. The Devil Gundam wanted to destroy civilization to save the Earth. It failed miserably, and it didn't even really get to the Earth much less the other space colonies because it kept getting its ass kicked (and yes, it did get its ass kicked a lot and had to be protected by its human benefactors all the time)
The Turn A wanted to wipe out civilization on Earth and it won flawlessly. The Turn A Gundam is the Devil Gundam if the Devil Gundam weren't garbage. The Turn A Gundam is the villain that won and the destruction it caused is the backdrop for an entire post-apocalyptic show.
>>13742004 >ust a small cluster of skyscrapers It's a colony shaped like a cluster of skyscrapers, it's much larger than you think. See those spiderwebs of light? Those are huge cities. The "skyscrapers" you see next to the Statue of Liberty are miles wide. The Statue Of Liberty Cannon is the main weapon of the Neo America colony, it's not just some mid-tier beam cannon.
As for the power output of God Gundam, I'd like to see someone actually do the math for the amount of horsepower needed for it to stand under that magnetic field that was supposed to be hundreds of times earth's gravitational pull.
>>13742025 >wanted to wipe out civilization on earth and it won flawlessly You might want to check your history, there. Because the Turn A and a small army of MP Turn A were fighting the Turn X and not only did it fail to destroy the Turn X, but all the MP's were lost as well as the entirety of human technology (lol except the moon...and Adeska...and some Zaku...and a GM thing, and...).
Also the Devil Gundam was only beaten twice: the fight where Domon used Shining Finger on it in Guyana and the final episode. The rest of the time it was just those Gundam Heads and the Death Army. And the only time it was at full power, when it had a woman in the cockpit, it immediately ate all of Neo-Japan and its spread to earth was only delayed by every Gundam on earth working together to slow it down.
It isn't about what's canon or not, it's about what it actually does on-screen. Just because Nagano says that the LED Mirage or whatever cannot be beaten doesn't mean we take his word. Same applies to Tomino, even within the franchise. It doesn't even make sense to suppose it's stronger anyways. The G-Self has a finite battery supply while the Turn-A has a power source that's still working hundreds or thousands of years after it was buried, the G-Self depends on backpacks to make it strong and is actually pretty weak as a basic unit devoid of them while the Turn-A has everything in built, the G-Self's most destructive weapon was some torpedoes that basically acted like a slightly different form of beam spam while the Turn-A's wiped out all technology on a planetary scale. One is far more advanced than the other.
You might want to check yours, because you just made up a few things there. There's nothing in show about it having fought the Turn-X with a load of MP Turn-A's. The Turn-A fought the Turn-X and won enough that it (a) left the scar on it's chest and (b) was able to wipe out all technology on Earth that wasn't specifically buried to protect it prior to that event. Which includes some Zakus and the Cannon Illefuto (or however it's spelled). The Moon isn't on Earth and Adeska was built afterwards, not before hand. Unless you mean the magnetic track there, which again, underground. The one thing the Turn-A doesn't do is eat organic matter. Which includes soil, so it doesn't get anything underground.
The Turn-A didn't lose and then something else destroyed all technology - the Turn-A was the one that destroyed that technology in the first place and almost certainly did so because it beat the Turn-X, not the other way around.
>>13742068 >You might want to check your history, there. Because the Turn A and a small army of MP Turn A were fighting the Turn X and not only did it fail to destroy the Turn X, but all the MP's were lost as well as the entirety of human technology (lol except the moon...and Adeska...and some Zaku...and a GM thing, and...). Manga only. If you want to include novelization and setting notes it's not even a comparison. The Turn A's MLB can destroy everything from Earth to Jupiter and teleport colony lasers into cockpits or wherever it wants.
>>13742068 >Also the Devil Gundam was only beaten twice: the fight where Domon used Shining Finger on it in Guyana and the final episode. The rest of the time it was just those Gundam Heads and the Death Army. And the only time it was at full power, when it had a woman in the cockpit, it immediately ate all of Neo-Japan and its spread to earth was only delayed by every Gundam on earth working together to slow it down. Kyoji's death.
>>13742116 lol you know even less about Turn A than you do about G. Adeska was built a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG fucking time before. The Sacktraeger was built a LOOOOONG time after the Ades Tree (orbital elevator) was destroyed, and the Sacktraeger is how the moonrace got to the moon before the MLB even happened.
You are making assumptions because you know nothing of the background info, and you're making an ass of yourself. Do continue, though, this is pretty funny.
Yes, which is why I said the magnetic rail was buried underground and survived the moonlight butterfly because of it. There was nothing else in Adeska beyond the mass driver that was built pre-moonlight butterfly that we know of.
>>13741809 >You DO realize that the MLB nanos are DG Cells, right?
Just because they're nanomachines doesn't make them exactly the same.
The show only alludes to it, but I highly doubt that the Devil's nanomachines and the Turns nanos are the same. I mean we don't all drive the same cars we used to drive 50 years ago. Given that the Turns were built hundreds or probably thousands of years after Future Century, the nanomachines are more than likely different.
>>13742235 No he doesn't. The notes go about some roundabout way to IMPLY that the MLB originates from the DG Cells.
>In Turn A, the DG cells were later researched and used for various peaceful purposes, including their original one of healing the Earth's environment. The new DG cells included an apotheosis program to prevent evolution, regeneration and growth outside of their purpose.
>The nanomachines in Turn A are in other words the descendants of the DG cells, which brought a great paradigm shift to mankind, but also led them to self-destruction.
>In the Turn A novelization and Turn A Gundam Record Collection 2 (∀ガンダム記録全集2), there is mention of a terrorist attack involving spreading a virus through nanomachines causing them to attack mankind and bring civilization to its feet, a veritable second DG cell crisis.
In short, the MLB is dangerous weapon that originated from research that sought to make the DG Cells more reliable and useful for a specific purpose, unlike the original DG Cells which went wild due to malfunction and began creating zombies and what not.
>>13742267 That is not accurate. There is a pastebin around here somewhere of excerpts of TE Spoiler Guy(?) translating directly from a physical copy of the book. Mechatalk threads are about as official as /m/ threads, why do people even post this as if it's a source? >original DG Cells which went wild due to malfunction That's not what happened at all. The Ultimate Gundam fell on its head and maybe went crazy, the DG Cells did not malfunction. They were creating zombies and what not because they were doing exactly what Devil Gundam wanted them to do, which was attempting to restore the environment by eradicating humanity.
>>13733960 Why do people care about mecha powerlevels of all things? Like, I can sort of get regular powerlevel circlejerking. since it's trying to prove that your favorite character is the best ever, but with tech, it's just natural that later stuff is going to be more powerful barring a cataclysm.
>>13742311 >later stuff is going to be more powerful barring a cataclysm That's the problem. There have evidently been a plethora of cataclysms in the Gundam timeline because mankind keeps getting booted back to pre-MS/pre-colony tech levels.
In Turn-A, for instance, a really old MS from a forgotten extra-solar colony drifts into our solar system and is absurdly more powerful than any tech of the time. So it's copied in fear of having to fight whoever built it, and a war breaks out over who should have control. So two thousand years later, this two thousand year old copy of a ____-year old MS outclasses every modern MS and is stated to be the strongest ever. And yet there is another MS from an even more ancient forgotten time that is clearly more powerful. You either believe what you see on screen, or you believe the director who tells you that this moustache is the strongest moustache ever and he just downplayed the MS because he wanted the story to be about people instead of being about tech.
Then you have other shows that were made after this director declared his robot the best-ever, but are supposedly set before this downplayed super-duper-antique. So naturally you have people who just can't believe that A is more powerful than B, people who just can't believe that B is more powerful than C, and people who insist that the director saying B is the strongest ever outweighs whatever other people think about what they saw on screen.
>>13740925 >Once by a punch from Harry Ord's SUMO and once by the Turn-X's beam saber in the finale. And the SUMO punch is a really weird instance given that at various points in the show before and after that it no sells stuff that should hit far, far harder than that. Because it's Harry Motherfuckin Ord. He ain't gotta explain shit.
>>13742311 I think you're misunderstanding what makes mecha anime circlejerks special (and this applies to /m/echa in general).
We know there's always going to be natural tech development but having this vague mental picture of future technology is different from having a new iteration of a universe come out in animation and actually seeing that new tech in action. (i.e. We know that Macross valks will be way better in 2500 but we don't know HOW they'll be better or how they'll look other than "similar to older valkyries only faster").
It works the same way for Gundam here >>13742357 , we know that there could be super ancient tech floating around somewhere that is stronger than anything currently in existing, but we don't know what it looks like or how its better than current tech until we actually see it.
Part of /m/ is WANTING to see tech get better, not just assuming it will advance outside of our narrow view of their universe through shows and movies. And when tech gets better–whether through gradual increments or digging up older, superior tech–it is easily comparable to everything that came before as being simply better (by varying amounts).
>>13746105 That's nice, but could he even possibly EVEN TOUCH Shurouga? Let alone defeat him. And I'm not talking about Shurouga. Hell, I'm not even talking about Shurouga Sin with the four spheres and Asakim awakened as their reactors (with Yumemiru Sougyou, Shiritagaru Yagi, Itsuwari no Kurohitsuji, Tsukinu Mizugame's four sphere acts), equipped with his Integral Discalibur, unlimited Tragic Carnager, HP and EN regen, All Canceller so he is immune to everything, with the ability to summon countless copies of Shurouga piloted by Black Knowledge all of which can Embrace the Inferno. I’m talking about Full Possession Shurouga, which is itself equal in power to the Supreme God Sol, with all 12 spheres and the power of the Supreme Z, the god created from the shards of Sol including the Black Sun, Helios, Prodigium which on its own has the power to destroy galaxies instantly, and the four Angels, made to stop the destruction 120000000 years, and with the Crossgate Paradigm Laplace Demon Computer and ability to completely control Akashic Records and rewrite reality with all three sides of the Triangle of Solomon, Tetragrammaton, Primeumaton, and Anaphaxeton, and becomes an absolute omnipotent god that is stronger than STTGL, Elder God Demonbane and Getter Emperor combined because the three of them and countless others teaming up couldn't even beat Supreme Z while Full Possession Shurouga is more than twice stronger.
The G-Lucifer's Moonlight Butterfly is significantly weaker than the one seen in Turn A. Maybe it's a prototype (if this takes place before Turn A) or alternatively a perfected version (if it takes place after)?
Also maybe it could be a sign that Tomino doesn't give a shit and just wanted to throw it in as a reference, which is fine by me.
>>13746680 00 Raiser still managed to quantize more than the Turn A teleported any beams. It seems logical that 00 Qan[T] would be able to quantize in the same way, and even better, since its Twin Drive System is superior.
>>13746568 If you were to express this LED Mirage's strength as a parameter, if the LED Mirage would be 100, everything else would be 0. It's said that an absolute 0% cannot exist, but that is only on Earth. No matter what the situation, no matter what the case, no matter what the reason, that's right, even if this white devil were to be destroyed, the possibility of defeating the LED Mirage simply does not exist. Completely 0%. 0% for the Vank (note: I'm not too familiar with what the names are in English so I might be spelling some wrong), 0% for the Schpelter, 0% for the Jagd Mirage, 0% even for the KOG. Unfortunately, thinking that you might be able to win by perseverance or chance or luck is a bad habit gained from reading too many Earth comics. You might be able to defeat this MH, that is absolutely impossible. History proves it. As of JC 7777, there is no MH, machine, mechanical life-form, demon, god, life-form, alien, or otherworldly entity that has been able to defeat this MH.
>>13746511 Considering the level of MS tech, it makes more sense being after Turn A than the original stated placement of UC, which would put it before all the "AU" series. If it's post-Turn A then the cataclysm that pushed humanity to the brink and necessitated cannibalism for survival could have been the MLB erasing all technology. Capital Tower makes more sense being a reconstruction of the Adeskan orbital elevator, because if Adeska were the ruins of the Capital Tower then the site would have had to go unnoticed throughout Wing, AGE, SEED, and most importantly 00 which had an orbital elevator of a completely different design in pretty much the same spot, with a functional massdriver.
>>13746981 >You might be able to defeat this MH, that is absolutely impossible. History proves it. As of JC 7777, there is no MH, machine, mechanical life-form, demon, god, life-form, alien, or otherworldly entity that has been able to defeat this MH.
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