>>13719661 >Is kawamori even part of this trash? Kawamori is the king of the hacks, sitting upon his hack throne in the great castle of hacktopia ruling all his hack people with a just but hackish hand
except his mech designs, he's always been solid there
Why ignore Zero? It looked amazing, and was pretty fun overall.
Don't ignore the films. DYRL is a mostly new version of the story with some interesting bits. The Plus film is the intended version of the story. The 7 film is just a neat one off episode, not a recap. And the Frontier films introduce some new stuff too.
In that list you're also missing the smattering of 7 OVAs, straight to VHS episodes, shorts, etc. But that should all be in the complete 7 torrents floating around anyway.
>>13722992 My concern is largely to do with confusion as to what is "canon" or not. People get confused all the fucking time with the Zeta movies since the ending is different from the TV series, and the 0079 movies are largely unnecessary if you've watched the series.
It's not so much about saving time (if I'm going to be watching multiple 30+ episode series then I have plenty of time), but keeping a straight head about a timeline of events.
Things are set so far apart from each other it barely matters
It's not gonna be a "Sayla explicitly flies the Core Booster in CCA, therefore the movies are canon" situation with Macross
Closest thing is in DYRL they change the alien appearance and flight suits to be different than the TV series and that stays consistent, but you'll definitely have to watch the TV sereies first to stomach DYRL
That's the... weird thing about Macross. It's sort of all canon, even the conflicting stuff. It seems Kawamori used the films to do things in other ways, and then had sequels refer to bits of both versions. Everything after SDFM looks like it did in DYRL, yet when they reference plot points they seem to reference the TV show versions. The fan fix is that DYRL is an in universe film creating a fantasy version of the war (For some reason.) that used the modern tech rather than getting correct dated props. Or something. Just go with it.
Honestly, the only what's canon or not debates in Macross are the fact that II isn't canon, as zero of the original creators were involved. It's still worth watching though. It looked neat. And also, that it seems the Plus film is the canon version, as it only cut a few scenes, seemingly for editorial rather than time reasons. But that's sort of hard to tell too.
Obviously nothing has dealt with what's canon from Frontier yet. But I bet it'll be the same mess as SDFM's 'canon' is too.
>>13722971 Without Macross Zero you'll miss some relevant references in Macross Frontier's plot.
DYRL is an in universe movie for Macross 7 but you'll notice from Macross Plus henceforth Zentradi having elf ears. Macross creator Shoji Kawamori said all Macross productions are in universe documentaries anyway. DYRL first had Zentradi with elf ears. Now Macross II Lovers Again is a sequel to Macross DYRL.
>>13723007 With the line-up you described, you'll be left scratching your head a little. Aesthetically later entries take more from DYRL than the original series, and it can be ambiguous as to which version of events is being followed.
Each entry is usually pretty stand alone, so what's most important is having the widest possible understanding of the franchise.
I remember someone saying that Kawamori believed that every entry in the franchise was simply a dramatisation of real events, as opposed to a real depiction of what happened.
>>13723051 Oh I forgot Macross 2012 lashback is pretty much music videos but it is ultimately the main triangle leaving Earth for the stars... Never to be heard from again. Thus one of the greatest mysteries in Macross is where did Megaroad 1 go?
>>13722971 Not even exaggerating, but DYRL is one of the most beautifully animated movies I've ever seen and it's totally worth watching for that alone. The plot is pretty good, but it is more or less dumbed down SDF. Just think of it more as a bonus and not the main thing.
>>13723154 It really is best to watch it all. Macross is a little like a puzzle where you put together context. Each entry can usually stand on its own without needing prior familiarity, but you get a fuller experience when you see the whole thing.
I'm surprised anyone didn't see this coming. Macross's choice of singers always reflects the music that is popular in japan at the time. Also the magical girls thing is also fairly popular these days so it makes sense for them to create a magical action pop group.
I'm looking forward to more of Mikumo. And the action scenes were actually pretty good at the end of the episode. Whole episode went by pretty quickly and a lot happened too so it was much faster paced than Frontier's first episode. April should be fun.
I feel like a retard for not noticing it before, but after watching the Frontier OP a couple of times I twigged to ALL of the Macross series having love triangles in them. But I don't see this in Delta. Any guesses?
>>13723626 >Kawamori pointed out that the delta symbol in the logo is made of triangular symbols to symbolize the three main thematic elements of Macross: music, a love triangle, and Valkyries. However, he also noted that the two symbols are split, and explained that this is indicative that the three elements will not come together as expected in the new story.
>>13723631 I'm interested to see what, if anything, Kawamori means by that. The triangle is a really enduring element in Macross in the franchise but it's the one I can take or leave. Even the original, which was a metaphor for Hikaru's struggle between childhood and adulthood, didn't exactly get my heart racing except in DYRL.
Like in Frontier, there was nothing really wrong with the triangle, but I just couldn't get invested in it, in part because it wasn't really about anything and while I liked each individual character I didn't really care who ended up with who. I thought Cathy's love triangle with Leon and Ozma was way more interesting.
I remember after the Deculture edition of the first episode come out and some anon here said something along the lines of 'I'm a little confused, is this going to be about Ranka picking between Sheryl and Alto?' and while we all had a laugh at how that would never happen, it would have been novel compared to what actually happened.
>>13723719 >I thought Cathy's love triangle with Leon and Ozma One is the MC's cool mentor and the other is a shady politician working with the bad guys. How is this obvious outcome interesting at all?
I don't think it's actually that enduring, since 7 and Frontier only had the most perfunctory of love triangles. Basara never showed any interest in any girls and he was one of the apparent legs in both the Mylene/Gamlin triangle and the Sivil/Gigil one, while Alto basically treated Ranka as a younger sister throughout Frontier. The outcome to both was pretty obvious and was never really contested throughout the show. So Kawamori just going "fuck it, ditch the triangles" is just him getting rid of a vestigial thing that it doesn't look like even he wanted.
>>13723748 I don't need to be kept guessing about something to find it interesting. As far as romance go who ends up with who is the least important part to me. What I like is the kinds of feelings and circumstances that create drama. Ozma was obviously going to 'win' but they still had baggage.
>>13723768 Basara throws the calculus off, but I'm not so sure I agree about Frontier. While I agree that Kawamori went into Frontier with a definite winner in mind (to the point that Alto and Sheryl sleep together in the novelisation, and obviously Alto actually tells the girls how he feels), I think it was still used as a big feature. The first OP is even called 'Triangular.' Ranka never stood a chance, but sure does try.
>>13723787 It's been a while for me, but I recall feeling like she liked Leon well enough (to begin with), but in normal circumstances wouldn't have gotten engaged to him. But it's those kinds of circumstances that I find interesting, as well. It doesn't get a huge amount of screen time, of course, but I still felt like I could get into Cathy Glass' head and get a sense of her complicated feelings about Leon and Ozma.
Leon always felt like a safe relationship to contrast the tumultuous one she had with Ozma. Leon was in a much more steady and safe job where he wasn't danger, he obviously had a plan for his career and was determined to follow it and he had the connections to follow through on that plan almost regardless of his own determination, he was also more possessive and made her feel more obviously in a relationship and loved because of it I suppose.
>>13723816 That's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Because the characters are adults they can have needs and circumstances that normally wouldn't apply to the leads in a Macross entry, Guld-Myung-Isamu triangle aside.
In relation to this, what would people like to see done with the love triangle aspect in a hypothetical Macross series? We've had a few variations over the length of the franchise.
Personally I'd be okay with a triangle where the resolution is 'nobody gets together and they all move on with their lives.' That cleaves a little closely to the ending of Samurai Champloo and people probably wouldn't like it, but the ending of Samurai Champloo was great so might as well rip that off.
>>13723906 One that gets solved before the series ends so we get to see how the loser deals with their unrequited love and moves on (I think this is what they should have done with Ranka). A love quadrangle in the form of two love triangles would be nice, too. Also, one that ends in a threesome because why not.
>>13724064 I like the idea of seeing the triangle resolve early. There's this belief that relationships are boring, but I don't think they have to be. Combined with the third point having to just deal with it, I can definitely see the potential here.
>>13724074 I just don't think you need to keep viewers guessing who is the protagonist gonna choose when the outcome is really obvious, like in Frontier. And I like stories that deal with heartbreak and moving on and acknowledge that first love is not the end-all. I liked that the movies gave Ranka her rejection so she could move on and showed her doing fine and wishing Alto would come back so Sheryl could wake up. I wish the had done that in the series, too.
>There's this belief that relationships are boring, but I don't think they have to be Same. Sometimes reading about an established relationship can be more interesting that the getting-together part. Especially if they have been together for some time or there are some communication problems between them.
I just don't get this obsession with "canon" in the first place, if something that happened before is relevant in the current series it will be referenced. Does it really make a big difference? Shit in other series constantly gets retconned anyways, it isn't something unique to Macross.
>>13724130 It's what I'm betting my money on right now. I mean, they haven't revealed the main triangle yet, and while I'm pretty sure the Freyja-Hayate-Mirage triangle is almost a given, it's way too basic. So to spice things up they may add a second triangle revolving around Freyja or Mirage. Also, Kawamori said in an interview that they had thought of having a love quadrangle in Frontier adding Brera into the mix.
>>13723844 >Magical girls were a bigger thing during Frontier's and Zero's runs than they are now, anon. Probably 7, too. True, but it was primarily kids shows like Precure, rather than "Magical Girls for Adults". Back then, examples like Nanoha were few and far between, while these days there's been Madoka and Symphogear and a few other shows. It's certainly gaining in popularity.
>>13723844 Like other anons said, its only recently there's been a bigger surge in magical girl stuff not aimed at little girls, thanks to Madoka mostly. Off the top of my head there's that YuYuYu show a few seasons back, and Symphogear showing that magical girls + music can make fucking bank on CD sales.
>Windmere firehair faggot intentionally attacking the Walkure
Literally bottom-barrel in the list of Characters To Feel Anything About Other Than Frothing Rage because these guys are intentionally helping the spread of Var Syndrome and the damage to civilians caused and they know it.
Also these guys look too baseline human. I keep thinking they're a colony fleet whose leadership went full monarchy, announced themselves a new faction of humanity independent from NUNS, and they're now commencing hostilities because muh new national territory woes.
>>13723339 Japanese music is a clusterfuck of different styles and scenes (second largest music industry in the world; only behind the US). What sells the most is still idol pop though, but arguably those numbers are skewed since those groups release a bazillion singles with multiple versions and obsessive fans buy them all.
>>13724734 Macross peaked with plus. I don't have strong opinions either way on 7 and Zero.
Frontier was where big corporate got involved, macross joined the modern age and became a business. The merchandise was ready to go before it even aired and very aspect of its design was molded by committees and market researchers. Delta is apparently taking the same plan but dialing it up to 11.
Some would say this is better than not getting any new macross at all but after seeing the delta pilot I'm not so sure.
It would be easier to tolerate if they did some spinoffs to cater to the SDF and Plus fans.
>>13719597 >show appeals to multiple demographic >watch show for what appeals to you specifically >ignore other demographics Is that really so hard to do? This shit isn't your personal blog. No one cares about how great you think SDF and Plus are.
>>13724944 I'm talking about you thinking anyone gives a shit about your opinion you subhuman piece of trash. Shut your fucking mouth and get back to your IBO containment thread.
That goes doubly for all you Macrossfags. No one gives a fuck how much you think Macross is ruined or what your favorite entry in the franchise is. Fuck right off to a different site entirely and don't come back.
You're all cancer, every last one of you cocksucking faggots.
>>13724939 >Its macross. Its always been like this.
It really hasn't. In the mid 90's macross plus was relatively mainstream in the tech-savvy west. Popular gaming and entertainment magazines covered it, it was heavily advertised and they even had posters for it up at my local video store before anyone knew what anime was. I showed it to dozens of regular people and they loved it.
Plus was actually one of the safest anime to show people, gorgeous animation, no japanese craziness, solid action right off the bat.
I wouldn't dare show anyone delta based on what I've seen so far.
Pretty much. Plus and SD are the sort of solid scifi that you don't need to be a weeaboo to enjoy. You can show plus to someone who isn't a fan of anime and be reasonably sure they are going to have a good time.
Delta isn't quite BOATGIRLS-tier, but god damn is it trying. Its not that I don't want Symphogear season 4, but Id just appreciate it if it stayed in its own show.
I like sharing things that I enjoy with other people and making them group activities. But for that to work, the things I enjoy need to not be the sort of things you need to be a level 6 or higher weeaboo to not cringe at.
>>13725085 This episode did literally nothing wrong at all unless you just get triggered by idols. It sets up the conflict, gimmick and characters really easily complete with dogfighting and missile circuses so I don't know what is "terrible" about it
>>13725082 This may be more of a problem with you and your friends than the show itself then anon. From what I'm reading here is that you have a bunch of low-power friends and considering how you're unironcally using the word weaboo, I can guess you've got some serious issues with wanting to not look like a nerd
>>13725109 Are you kidding? The characters are all shallow cliches; the pacing is completely nonsensical (as soon as the Var takes over those guys the city is all instantly in flames); the magical girl-esque combat is completely nonsensical, and the CGI is embarrassing. Some of the combat is okay, but the story is dumb and the characters are just shallow pandering.
>>13725115 I do all of those things too. The difference is I don't come on 4chan to complain about my hobby not appealing to normies nor do I complain about other anime not pandering to me specifically enough
I mean best case scenario you get them in via Plus or Zero
but really it sounds like he's talking about trying to do the orignal series which is plagued with too much Min mei, 7 which is divisive as fuck and I say that as someone who loves Basra, or Frontier in which the prettiest girl is the lead male protagonist and the less said of mini Klan the better
>>13725154 >I mean best case scenario you get them in via Plus or Zero I understand Plus but how the fuck would you get someone into Macross with Zero? Also, Plus is so completely different from the rest of the franchise that unless the person was willing to expand their mindset to include a lot more relationship drama and idols than in Plus, I don't know how they could find the rest of it appealing
>>13725151 >play Dnd once a week, and regularly attend conventions. Sometimes even in costume. >we just have standards
Can you just admit you don't want your friends to think you're lame so we can end this pretending that this is any fault of the show and not just you wanting to be cool? Just show them some other fucking show, it's not hard
>>13725142 You're right, the ship she was singing on just crashed headfirst into the enemy's gigantic, overbearing command ship in what would have been suicidal in any other series and rightfully so. Just because DYRL, Plus and Frontier all ended with the MCs flying directly into bullet hell to shoot the big bad in the face and escape relatively unscathed doesn't mean it isn't stupid.
Though I will admit that those scenes are always the coolest "fuck yeah!" scenes of their respective series.
>>13725156 >lazy, but brilliant pilot MC >genki, airhead cute girl >cool, older sister type This is a recipe for disaster waiting to happen. Not even Frontier was this generic.
>I'm pretty sure that's just time moving quickly between scenes Maybe, but it still doesn't make much sense. The only suits shown to explicitly be affected by the VAR are those four Zentradi guys (before the unknown units show up), and there was already a taskforce actively monitoring the situation on the planet. As soon as the they detected those wave reactions or whatever, the situation should have been much, much more contained than what was shown. There's a bunch of random gunfire in the background that makes no sense.
>Throwing drones isn't combat There's simply logical reason for them to be flying around without any sort of real protection. Even 7 makes more since (at least Basara actually pilots shit).
>At least wait until episode 1 drops to hate the CGI It better be a lot better than this because I don't really have much faith.
>>13725179 Given the circumstances, that's believable. I'm referring to part at the end of the episode where the genki gets up and runs straight towards gunfire. It's just dumb.
>>13725192 >This is a recipe for disaster waiting to happen. Not even Frontier was this generic. The first two are literally Alto and Ranka in the first episode and Sheryl was just bitchy idol who was obviously going to be a tsundere. Main character here isn't even a pilot
>>13725211 >They should actually fly machines like in 7. There's literally no reason to prance around in the middle of combat like magical girls. Because the Var syndrome doesn't always affect mecha pilots. Having them deploy in VFs all the time wouldn't make sense and they need to be able to respond quickly when the infection starts and it'd be quicker to do that on foot.
>>13725167 >I understand Plus but how the fuck would you get someone into Macross with Zero?
No Idols Lots of shooting It's short
>Also, Plus is so completely different
Granted but the idea is more to open the viewer up to anime in general. You need to get your foot in the door and ease them into this shit, and honestly a 30 something episode series from the 1980s that looks like something the cat threw up more than half the time isn't the best way to ease in a neophyte
Plus and Zero meanwhile are much shorter affairs that are largely stand alone and far more digestible
>>13725134 >>13725140 The point is that when something is truly good it transcends traditional genre and cultural boundaries and everybody can enjoy it. Macross enjoyed that kind of appeal in the past but delta is continuing to steer the franchise deeper into turbo weeb territory.
>>13725218 That's my point. Alto isn't a brilliant character or anything, but he never gave off warning bells like this guy does.
>>13725220 Sure, but in this case those affected by the Var were indeed mecha pilots. Yes the drones and stuff obviously provide some protection, but even in the episode it's not adequate as they get attacked by unknown units and trashed very hard.
>>13725230 They don't have to physically fight. Flying around and singing would work just fine.
>>13725225 >No Idols >Lots of shooting >It's short That says a lot about Plus fans and how simple minded they are. >Granted but the idea is more to open the viewer up to anime in general. You need to get your foot in the door and ease them into this shit, and honestly a 30 something episode series from the 1980s that looks like something the cat threw up more than half the time isn't the best way to ease in a neophyte As someone who has tried multiple times to get normie friends into anime I can tell you mecha anime is the absolute worst fucking way to go about it. Especially if it's more military centric like Plus. You'd honestly have slightly better success with SDF or Frontier.
>>13725192 >Not even Frontier was this generic. Character archetypes are just that. Though to be fair, Alto was far and above the most interesting character in the Frontier pilot because we learned early on what motivates him and what his passions are. We know that much about Freyja and maybe Mirage through inference, but we don't know shit about Hayate.
The genki-girl who wants to sing isn't necessarily a generic archetype on its own, but it certainly is for Macross and they need to try harder with Freyja.
>Given the circumstances, that's believable No, it isn't. There is no logical reason they should have done that, that the Macross could have survived such a ridiculous stunt, and that a single VF flew through corridors and shot the big bad in the face, killing him and somehow causing his entire ship to explode and his army to be routed instantly. And then the Macross survives the exploding warship tens of thousands of times its size. That shit is straight up goofy.
Guld fighting the X-9 to a draw and dying in the process is the most realistic fucking thing Macross has had in decades.
>>13725236 >Yes the drones and stuff obviously provide some protection, but even in the episode it's not adequate as they get attacked by unknown units and trashed very hard. Of course they got trashed, the space defense line was broken through and they already had their hands full dealing with the rest of the Var infections. Even still they were ready to fight again.
>>13725241 But literally everyone falls neatly into a character archetype. I could admittedly be wrong and everyone turns out to have great development, but given what Kawamori has been doing recently, I doubt it.
>There is no logical reason they should have done that Minmay singing freaked out the Zentradi and caused them to stop fighting. Flying to the command center to end the conflict makes perfect since. In the case of Plus, it was because Isamu wanted to save Myung.
>>13725242 Sure, but why weren't they just in small Valkyries to begin with? There's no reason to be out in open gunfire without constant armor. You're just taking risks for no reason. Remember, this is supposed to be a a specialized taskforce.
>>13725244 >So far, Delta doesn't make much sense in universe But literally the fact that people are arguing with you about this means that it does make sense. You're the one who thinks this doesn't make sense
>>13725252 Hayate has to be some what broken at piloting a valkyrie in order to give Delta squad a reason to pick him up. Freyja and him are nowhere close enough for her to make personal request for him.
>>13725244 >Even 7 is pretty internally consistent and well-executed. They transform music into energy beams and the show becomes super robot mixed with Dragonball Z. Delta is hard scifi compared to 7.
>>13725263 >But literally everyone falls neatly into a character archetype There's literally nothing wrong with this. It's not the archetype, it's what you do with it that matters. All the mains in Frontier developed, Hell, even in fucking AKB0048, while they couldn't get to everybody, that entire show is full of stock archetypes that develop as actual characters. We're not watching a high school battle harem LN adaptation here. This seems like a complaint that's worth arguing about at the end of the series
>>13725262 >Sure, but why weren't they just in small Valkyries to begin with? That literally does not exist in universe so I don't know what the fuck you are talking about. >There's no reason to be out in open gunfire without constant armor. You're just taking risks for no reason. Remember, this is supposed to be a a specialized taskforce. The Multi-Drones are shown being faster and safer to defend people with than a giant collateral damaging robot. It's the safer alternative.
>>13725263 >Sure, but why weren't they just in small Valkyries to begin with? There's no reason to be out in open gunfire without constant armor. You're just taking risks for no reason. Remember, this is supposed to be a a specialized taskforce. Just stop watching anime, you are too autistic for this shit.
>>13725294 >Why can't the Valkyries deploy drones? They did at the start of the battle but it's shown they need to be directed in some way. It would be too difficult to control them and fight off any mecha they might encounter and that's why it's perfect for Walkure to use.
>>13725294 Why do you want them in Valkyries? Why wouldn't you just leave that to professionals? Wouldn't that just lead to complaints about "WHY ARE THE CUTE GIRLS FLYING? THIS IS STRIKE WITCHES BULLSHIT"
How would they be able to perform while flying? Are you suggesting they fly, sing, dance and control drones all at the same time? That's fucking dumb. The point of them being there is also to calm down and put on a show for the people like, you know, actual idols
>>13725263 >Minmay singing freaked out the Zentradi and caused them to stop fighting. Flying to the command center to end the conflict makes perfect since. In the case of Plus, it was because Isamu wanted to save Myung. We know Minmay's singing stopped the actual fighting. That's not what I'm pointing out. I'm pointing out that that suicidal behavior is only rewarded through authorial contrivance. Under no circumstances should the Macross have survived its final run, let alone a single fucking fighter flying to the center of a fuckhuge space fortress through tiny corridors and shooting the bad guy in the face. That shouldn't have made his ship explode, and the Macross itself has been in danger from attacks many times less powerful than being at the center of the enemy's largest space fortress as it fucking explodes.
Same goes for Isamu. The only reason Guld died and Isamu didn't is not because Isamu wanted it more or was more skilled or had a better machine, but only because they thought it would be cool for him to somehow not get shot down by the Macross spamming beams from every orifice.
That goes for Alto's final run on the Vajra Queen too when he's dodging fire from the Queen, any nearby Ghosts, Vajra Carriers, Galaxy Carriers, unmanned VF-27s, and whatever smaller Vajra types came across him.
I'm not saying it's not cool, but it's definitely internally inconsistent and entirely on the protagonists' side to make the fights seem more epic than how one-sided they really are.
I love all those final battles, I really do. I love the music, the animation, the choreography, the dialogue...but every last one of them is Saturday morning cartoon-tier contrivance during their final battles.
>>13725332 >>Macross >>Power armor Frontier did have it but I really can't imagine them singing while wearing these...Then again they might wear a more female version resembling Fei-Yen from Virtual On later on or something. Might be cool.
Frankly if Walkure were piloting recon Valks far away from the battle, or in the rear seat of a VF-31, Mikumo would be less cool, and that's basically unacceptable. She's like the Isamu Dyson of idols - so much so that I really need her catchphrase to be 'thrilling, ne?'
>>13724502 Given the blurb of mingling with other races I'm more of the opinion these guys are an uplift that went bad. We know a fleet colonized their world.
We know from Macross Dynamite 7 that the new UN/NUN had integrated the Zolans.
Apparently there is also Chuck's amphibian race too. Windermerians are likely another.
From SK's Forbes interview they are sort of like the Anti-UN. Which is weird given that planets and fleets can govern themselves as the NUN is set up like the EU. Natives may have an axe to grind as the Humans spread their culture to them. MUH CULTURE!
>>13725382 >>13725392 I feel like I'm the only one who likes both Chuck and Delta-04's bright yellow color scheme. I'm also impressed that we have an RVF pilot who actually does something and can fight. Luca didn't fire a single bullet all of Frontier.
Ah well, it's probably easier to pilot the RVF-31 than the RVF-25 in atmosphere because the radome is capable of being folded away.
>>13725464 It is really nice to see different races in Macross again. That was a nice detail that Frontier had that a lot of the previous entries were missing. Like, I think Guld was the only zentradi we saw in Plus.
>>13725476 Speaking about this, I tried to spot some random Windermerian but I didn't see one. Of course their most recognizable feature being the hair ends that glow makes it a bit tricky, but considering how surprised Hayate was when he found out Freyja was from Windermere I wonder if they mostly keep to themselves and their planet. I hope Kawamori will delve more into Windermere and their culture, and also Ragna which is where Walküre are from.
>>13725493 We got mobile 2 card games, but 3 PSP ones and a PS3 one. 3 PS3 ones if you count the games that came with the Blu-ray (I wouldn't). Don't forget that the mobile games came out waaaaay after the series. The odds are pretty good we'll get a Vita one.
>>13725516 >expecting Artdink to make a 6th fucking Macross game It's not happening. Artdink is too preoccupied sucking Sword Art Online dick. We're probably going to get a shitty idolm@ster game instead of another variable fighter based one.
The real problem is that the shield drones exist purely as a flimsy excuse as to why the girls can be on the battlefield without getting immediately blown away, but that is actually the single worst possible use of that technology.
Why don't the destroids have these defensive weapons? Macross cities and colonies frequently have police issue destroids to act as riot control when macronized zentradi are involved, so they could perform the same function.
If you can deploy shield drones that are capable of flying around and making barriers, why are you bothering to use it as a shield in front of the targets when you could instead use it as a barrier around the attacker and lock their shit the fuck down?
Why are the shield drones equipped with holograms for holoconcert bullshit if power supply is a constant issue for them? Doesn't that run down the battery faster?
So on and so forth.
This is a really terrible plan whose only purpose is to "justify" magical girl idols in a setting where nothing works that way. Macross is usually better than this.
>>13725557 >Being this autistic Fine, why don't Destroids have ECA and PPB? It's been almost a century since their inception and enhanced power generation and miniaturization of select technologies should mean Destroids would be equipped with such technology by this point. But they aren't.
Hell, by that vein, why the FUCK have these Destroids ever been advanced beyond the type-X variants that barely surpass the original in performance. None of that makes sense in-universe. They only exist to be destroyed to make variable fighters seem like the end-all-be-all most powerful things ever. The same way that all carrier ships only exist to be sunk just do you can see how much more superior and amazing Macross-class vessels are in comparison, especially because they do everything the carriers do and more.
It's all the same fucking author contrivance. That's always been the case with Macross, that's never changed.
You wouldn't expect the next episode of Iron Blooded Orphans to have the Barbatos raise both arms while Mika screams BREASTO FIRAH and then lasers a battleship out of the sky. Because despite Mazinger Z also being a mecha show, Gundam isn't THAT kind of mecha show.
Macross doesn't do super special prototypes with unique technology no one else has. The closest we ever got to that was Macross Plus, which was literally dealing with the development and testing of competing military contracts, and every one of those designs went on to be mass produced and see service across the galaxy in a matter of years.
Fuck, Macross 7 dealt with custom made song force amplifiers and even that shit got production models, its just that the resulting Jamming Bird project was a failure.
New technological developments in macross get passed around between fleets and enter production very quickly. Just look at frontier, where the fleet got outfitted with new fold scanners in a matter of weeks when the need arose, and the same thing happened again later with MDE weaponry.
Macross doesn't live by Gundam's super prototype rules.
>>13725586 >Fine, why don't Destroids have ECA and PPB? Destroids have smaller generators compared to VFs so they can't use them. But destroids have naturally strong armor so ECA is moot, PPB would be a waste since Destroids are pretty expendable.
>>13725604 >>13725643 The YF-29 and YF-30 come to mind and to a lesser extent the VF-27, which Galaxy was supposed to make on the books (after getting the YF-24 blueprints) but ended up developing and mass producing it entirely off the record to the point that NUNS and SMS had no idea what it was (in the series at least, no one questions the VF-27's existence in the movies).
We have the same situation with the SV-262 since Delta Squad doesn't recognize them.
I mean, we know that Macross Olympia was supposed to develop the YF-26 from their share of the YF-24 blueprints and ended up can can canceling due to funding, but I wouldn't cry foul about them showing up in the future with a VF-3X that no one knew about simply because no one expected it. ESPECIALLY when Shinsei/LAI developed the YF-29 in secret and the General Galaxy developed the VF-27 in secret as well. This has been happening the last decade in Macross.
Actually, I would enjoy it if Olympia entered into the design-space since the majority of Macross has been a Shinsei (Lockheed) and General Galaxy (Boeing) circlejerk. Let's get some new blood in this shit.
>>13725727 YF-32 will be in the movie. Delta needs a movie already to fix the pacing problem of the first episode alone. The only way I can justify this ridiculously breakneck pace is if we eventually find out Delta will only have like 12 episodes, which is what I'm assuming will happen at this point.
>>13725758 >Delta needs a movie already to fix the pacing problem of the first episode alone This is bullshit. We only watched an unfinished episode and you're already bitching about its pacing ruining the entire series. The first half's pacing was fine and it got really fast once the Var outbreak happened.
>The only way I can justify this ridiculously breakneck pace is if we eventually find out Delta will only have like 12 episodes It obviously won't be with the scale and budget of Macross. Not to mention no Macross tv series was ever shorter than 2 cours, Frontier being the shortest with 25 episodes.
>>13725758 There's some parts with wonky jumps, but the pace really isn't much different than the first episode of frontier. All they have to do is a longer episode (maybe like 30 minutes or so) with some extra scenes to fill in the gaps.
>>13725822 >Not really. That's a shallow way to look at it. Since when has Macross ever been without an idol singer? Every Macross entry has at least one. Even Sarah Nome on Macross Zero is technically one though she doesn't exactly fit the template of a modern idol singer.
>>13725858 Of course Basara is the star, but he's no different than any other popular musician in a big rock band. If you want to call that an idol, that's fine, but it's not the same kind of idol culture that's around Minmay, Ranka, or Sheryl.
>>13725877 And showed it's entirely possible for AI to go rogue. There's a reason they keep later Ghost models under a very tight leash where they have to constantly receive permissions from a manned controller and can only be granted full autonomy for brief periods.
>>13725901 >The AI controlled drone only fought Isamu and Guld, and it was a tie. The Ghost fighter only fought Guld and even he barely beat it if he didn't do that suicide ramming attack. The point is not who it fought but that it was extremely dangerous since it had an advanced AI that was hackable and controlled.
>>13725758 >>13725727 But I don't think we've ever had seasonal upgrades in Macross outside of new packs,I can't wait to see what the VF-31 and SV-262 packs look like In the case of upgrades/rival unit appearing in the vein of Brera's VF-27 I just hope we get another trapezoid wing VF >tfw I was alone in my love for the YF-30
>>13725780 >>13725800 >36 to 52 to 25 Bullshit. Shows very rarely go over 24+ episodes nowadays if they aren't some sort of adaptation and shows that are between 30 and 50 episodes are even rarer.
No other Macross series had a first episode this disjointed without any kind of helpful explanation for its tech whatsoever. At least with Frontier and 7 you could skip through the episode and find fighting/music/character shit in equal amounts. I'd argue that only the first episode of SDF is so disjointed with Macross' themes.
Delta can be cleanly cut into 8 mins character shit and introduction of the triangle, 8 mins of idol singing and fighting, 8 mins of variable fighter dogfighting and it introduces way more characters than the others do.
It's way faster paced than pilots of the other TV series, and its pacing more resembles something we would see for the introduction of a relatively short series instead of a way longer series.
The Dual Ghost Booster IS the SV-262's Fast Pack, I'd assume.
Pic-related is the RVF-31's pack. It resembles the VF-11's and is really blocky and ugly. I hope it's more form fitting in the future like the VF-25. I don't think the VF-31 could keep those packs in Battroid anyway because of the way their wings fold. So hopefully that's not the actual FAST Pack and just a temporary model or something or just a one time thing.
>>13725810 There's definitely quite a few wonky jumps. In Frontier, we at least have Ghosts and VF-171s getting wrecked throughout the entire episode set to the background of Sheryl's concept, followed by the Vajra's attack on Island-1, where the episode ends with more disaster and combat. To me at least, it feels a bit neater since we got good action interspersed with character development and of course music.
I don't have a problem with Delta thematically, just that the 3 pillars of Macross are separated by extremely poignant pauses to the point where it almost feels like 3 different shows instead of one unified one.
I'd have to think more about how they can do it better and I don't think its a total mess, but there are definitely some problems. I doubt they'll really change the position of scenes too much and Kawamori said a whole 4 minutes is missing from Mission 0.89 in addition to what is already unfinished in the episode, so who knows, maybe they'll edit it better in April. I'm looking forward to it either way.
>>13725961 >Shows very rarely go over 24+ episodes nowadays if they aren't some sort of adaptation Or you know, shows that are part of a big franchise.
> No other Macross series had a first episode this disjointed without any kind of helpful explanation for its tech whatsoever
So you are complaining about the pacing but you wanted exposition on how tech worked before we ever got to see the tech? Show > Tell
> Delta can be cleanly cut into 8 mins character shit and introduction of the triangle, 8 mins of idol singing and fighting, 8 mins of variable fighter dogfighting and it introduces way more characters than the others do.
None of this is a problem, especially the introduction of the characters since they are just shown to us and can be given any kind of developement later. All characters were introduced in groups as a way to introduce the big conflict that is taking place and show the diferent sides.
>>13725961 >Shows very rarely go over 24+ episodes nowadays Have you been living under a rock? There are several anime each year that get 2 cours/24 episodes to this day even without a huge budget. Every Macross tv series has always ran at least 2 seasons long and only a newfag would consider being less.
>At least with Frontier and 7 you could skip through the episode and find fighting/music/character shit in equal amounts. Bullshit. The first 10+ minutes of Frontier didn't even have any combat or music. Combat only began when Sheryl's concert started which was halfway through the first episode in the BD. It was just pretty much like Delta with several of character introductions at the beginning. And your comparing an unfinished first episode to Frontier's complete episode that about 10 minutes longer.
>It's way faster paced than pilots of the other TV series The pacing was very fast only in the second half of the episode when the conflict started. The first half was completely and you're just exaggerating it. And just because you perceive it as "extremely fast paced" doesn't hold weight that the entire series is just a single cour long.
>>13726076 >Or you know, shows that are part of a big franchise. And yet Frontier got less episodes than 7. And no, its not just because they wanted to be "cute" by keeping the "25" stylings.
>So you are complaining about the pacing but you wanted exposition on how tech worked before we ever got to see the tech? Show > Tell I'm not complaining about getting a tech exposition, I'm complaining about the lack of Showing OR Telling. Nothing shows that they're hologram emitters. The show practically winks and nods at Macross veterans like us but that's a terrible introduction for people who are first watching and for the wider audience they are trying to appeal to. Like some guy pointed out earlier: We never get an exposition dump on the fact that Brera wears a normal flightsuit and helmet and that his cockpit setup is strictly a hologram, we are SHOWN this by having it flicker and blink and revealing it when he's hit.
For those of us not entirely familiar with Macross technology, Walkure's transformations literally make this look like a magical girl show. They don't show OR tell us anything. The show is depending on us being former Macross viewers to understand this and if we're not Macross viewers, it depends entirely on the viewer LIKING magical girl stuff.
You don't risk your neck in that manner on a fucking pilot episode.
>None of this is a problem, especially the introduction of the characters since they are just shown to us and can be given any kind of developement later. All characters were introduced in groups as a way to introduce the big conflict that is taking place and show the diferent sides. Yeah, because Sunrise shows that introduce 15 characters in the first episode are soooooo great at characterization. I'm not saying that they need to be fleshed out entirely in the first episode, but no other Macross pilot has kept all its elements so separate and it feels extremely disjointed because of it. That is a problem for a pilot specifically.
They probably realized that 7 was just way more stretched out than it needed to be and that there was no need for them to buy that many episodes.
> Nothing shows they're hologram emitters
Yet. The show is almost certainly going to go in to just what's happening on some level in the future, and that may include in the final episode itself since all it needs is as you say some small animation nods if they want to do it that way.
> You don't risk your neck in that manner on a fucking pilot episode
It's not a risk if magical girl shows are actually quite well liked. Which they are. In Japan. Where it counts. Just because you, a Western don't share that opinion doesn't actually mean anything.
Don't bother - it's almost certainly the same anon constantly harping on about how anything with CG is PS1/N64 tier in terms of graphics and acting like screenshots of games from that era are indistinguishable regardless of evidence to the contrary.
>>13726268 >They probably realized that 7 was just way more stretched out than it needed to be and that there was no need for them to buy that many episodes. That I can agree with. Frontier was a little rushed in their ending, but that's a pacing problem with Frontier itself, not with the episode count.
>Yet. The show is almost certainly going to go in to just what's happening on some level in the future, and that may include in the final episode itself since all it needs is as you say some small animation nods if they want to do it that way. Yes, but that's something you generally want in the first episode. I'd like to believe everyone follows the three episode rule, but not everyone does and if someone decided they don't think Delta is for them thanks to this first episode alone, I wouldn't blame them.
>It's not a risk if magical girl shows are actually quite well liked. Which they are. In Japan. Where it counts. Just because you, a Western don't share that opinion doesn't actually mean anything. I definitely agree with that because that's undeniably true, but what's also undeniably true is that Delta is pandering to that specific crowd. Delta is hinging on the fact that there is either overlap in their new audience or their old audience. You can say that magical girls are quite popular in Japan, they are. I myself have no problem with magical girls despite your assumption that I seem to hate them or something. But it's too big of an assumption to assume that every person watching Macross is both into magical girls and variable fighters, even if the existing fanbase is. That's what happens when you try to spread your target demographic so far.
>>13725604 >Yeah, but thats not how Macross works. >Macross doesn't live by Gundam's super prototype rules. What the fuck are you talking about. What in the holy mother of FUCK are you talking about.
>every one of those designs went on to be mass produced and see service across the galaxy in a matter of years. >New technological developments in macross get passed around between fleets and enter production very quickly. Which is why the Frontier fleet was using the VF-19. Oh wait, they weren't, because the NUN is afraid of giving colony fleets and worlds the latest cutting-edge technology in case they rebel against Earth and Eden. That's why they give them shit like the VF-171 instead and an unfinished version of the YF-24, a plane that literally fucking killed anyone who tried to fly it. That's why most colonies are still using old Destroids and shit to fill the gaps. Colony fleets and worlds almost NEVER got VF-19s or VF-22s except in very special circumstances. Why the fuck would they have VF-31s and bleeding-edge Multi-Drones?
>>13728051 That final dogfight between Alto and Brera was great though. Really captured the essence of variable fighters even if it is a little short. I always show people I know might be interested in Macross that scene.
So I just watched it and I haven't had an incident in a while where I was checking the time so an episode can end. 1/3 of the ground fights looked nice, but the fights in the sky I liked. I'll have to see later whether or not I like the characters, because I don't have much to go off of right now. The music in Macross has always been based around what is popular at the time, but for some reason the music they used now seemed way more shit to me. I liked Idolmaster and Love Live, but this bothers me
>>13729064 Well, it's missing Yoko Kanno, who was Frontier's composer so that's probably it. Ikenai Borderline was the best song, but not by much and mostly because its unconventional sounding for a Macross song.
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