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In terms of raw performance, where is the...
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In terms of raw performance, where is the VF-2SS in comparison to VFs from the canon timeline?
It's more powerfull than a Macross ship, so in order to stop it they had to make its entire universe non-canon
They had technological stagnation, so the VF-2 is just roughly on par with a VF-11 only.
Roughly that, yeah. They advanced in other ways, though. Lighter drone systems for one, some anti-grav stuff but generally Macross II is behind the Macross Primeverse.
>Technological Stagnation
How far after the original series did Macross II happen?
>macross II
It only tops the charts in being the hands down best VF design ever.
I don't know, but in terms of appearance it's an absolute disgrace.
It had funnels, which was pretty novel for a Valkyrie. It's unlikely to be all that competitive with a more modern Valkyrie, though. Kawamori's more recent designs are just loaded with features that we couldn't even imagine back in the day.
You are an absolute disgrace.

VF-2SS is in the Top 3 of the best looking VFs
It's something like 80 years or so after DYRL, it's ridiculous.
I wish this cannon was canon.
I second this. Still in my top three battroid designs. Ill take this over any of Kawamoris current back kibble designed valks.
Yeah, that's ridiculous. Even Delta is only 50 years after Space War I.
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Big West Macross Timeline
Macross DYRL-Macross 2036-Macross Eternal Love Song-Macross II Lovers Again

Space War 1 (2009-2010)
2009 January: Engineers from Stonewell and Bellcom are transferred to South Ataria Island to conduct space testing of the VF-1 Valkyrie.
2009 February: Space War 1 begins. Combat with the Zentradi provides design feedback that will be used in the development of the VF-4. Soon after, the SP-1 Super Packs and GBP-1 Protect Armor are introduced.
2009 May: Stonewell/Bellcom begin work on the VF-X-4 prototype. The prototype is later lost along with all Earth-based production and testing facilities during orbital bombardments by the Zentradi.
2009 May - 2010 August: At some point in this span, technicians from Stonewell, Bellcom, and Shinnakasu band together under the leadership of Dr. H. Takachihoff, and develop the VE-1 ELINT Seeker, an electronic signals intelligence valkyrie based on the VT-1.
NB: These technicians will found the Takachihoff Company in the aftermath of Space War 1
2010 September 11: Space War 1 formally ends with the signing of the cease-fire agreement. Gorg Boddole Zer fires on the Laplamiz mobile fortress, destroying it and thousands of his own ships. The Minmay Attack is executed, and the Boddole Zer mobile fortress is destroyed by the surviving Zentradi and Meltrandi ships, led by the SDF-1.
The Reconstruction Era (2010-2036)
During this period, numerous small-scale conflicts with rogue Zentradi and Meltrandi ships occur. The Zentradi aggressors are defeated by the U.N. Spacy fleet under the command of Vrlitwhai 7018.
Quamzin 03350 briefly attempts to live among the humans after recovering fro his injures, rejects Earth's culture, briefly leads bands of renegades against the U.N. Spacy, and flees into space with one of the Zentradi rogue factions.
At some point prior to 2019, Maximilian Jenius and Milia 639 are married.
Due to the drain on resources imposed by the vast environmental restoration programs, rebuilding the fleet, and the interstellar emigration program, no new variable fighters are developed during this period. Existing designs (VF-1, VF-4) are upgraded with new technology as time passes. The VF-1 is given a space performance upgrade and becomes the VF-1R (VF-1AR/JR/SR).
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Reconstruction work begins on the SDF-1, fitting the ship with a new bridge, new main gun, and a number of other improvements. Work on the ship is halted in 2036 by the Neld fleet incident, and is never resumed.
2014: (Macross: Flashback 2012) The SDF-2 Megaroad-01, the first of many colonization ships, is launched under the command of Misa Ichijyo. The ship is escorted by several Zentradi battleships, and equipped with the latest VF-4A Siren variable fighters.
NB: We have no explanation for this, but all of the source books we have for this timeline give the year of the SDF-1's departure from Earth as 2014. Why? We can only guess, but it's definitely not a typo.
2018: Lott Sheen is born on Earth.
2019: Komilia Maria Jenius is born to U.N. Spacy top ace Maximilian Jenius and his new wife, former Meltrandi ace Milia 639.
NB: In the DYRL version of events, Max and Milia are not married until after Space War 1 ends. 2019 was selected as her birth year to accommodate her starring role as a 17-year old U.N. Spacy trainee in Macross 2036, one of two canon games in the timeline at the time.
2030: Dr. H. Takachihoff, the father of the VF-1 and VF-1R series, passes away.
Quamzin's Revenge (2036-2037)
Having escaped Earth in the years after Space War 1, Quamzin 03350 returns to Earth at the head of two Zentradi fleets, one in 2036, and one in 2037, in two disastrous attempts to revenge himself upon the U.N. Spacy and uncover the secret of song, for use against the Meltrandi.
NB: Dialogue in Macross 2036 establishes that this is the same person who served aboard the Vrlitwhai fleet's flagship during Space War 1, and was shot by Roy. He survived, and now sports a prosthetic right eye.
2036: (Macross 2036: the Neld Fleet Incident) Quamzin 03350 returns at the head of the Neld fleet of the Zentradi, and launches a multi-pronged attack on the U.N. Spacy. The Minmay Attack is only partially effective, as Quamzin has braced his troops for it.
Using a "cross-fold" system, Quamzin redirects Vrlitwhai's ship from Mars to Neptune during a training exercise, forcing U.N. Spacy trainees Komilia Jenius and Lott Sheen into battle. The Neld fleet also attacks U.N. Spacy forces at Mars and the captured Esbeliben factory satellite, before being defeated by the U.N. Spacy fleet.
Quamzin escapes the destruction of the fleet with his accomplices, Grimzo and Jinna.
Komilia Jenius is promoted to 1st Lieutenant and given command of Red Horns squadron.
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2037: (Macross: Eternal Love Song) Quamzin returns again, this time at the head of the Burado main fleet, having convinced Boddole Burado that the songs of humans hold the key to victory over the Meltrandi. The fleet is also braced for the Minmay Attack, using an old protoculture communications system to block out the offending broadcasts.
Zentradi mecha are detected in the airspace over a U.N. Spacy training center on the moon. The Minmay Attack proves ineffective against their mothership, and a fierce battle follows. The Burado fleet presses its numerical advantage and attacks U.N. Spacy bases on the moon. Meltrandi troops from the Leplendis fleet attack both the U.N. Spacy and the Zentradi, forcing the U.N. Spacy into retreat.
After retreating to Earth to rebuild their fleet's combat potential, the U.N. Spacy promotes Hayato Kiryu to Major, and gives him command of Hound squadron aboard the Prometheus II, a new Daedalus II-class ARMD. Zentradi and Meltrandi troops attempt to infiltrate the civilian population. Meltrandi ace Misty meets Hayato Kiryu.
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The Zentradi Geran branch fleet and a Meltrandi scouting force are both destroyed. Major Kiryu discovers Misty is a Meltrandi while moving to investigate a battle between Zentradi and Meltrandi forces on Earth. Hound squadron rescues the Meltrandi pilots.
Based on the testimony of her spies, Moruk Leplendis declares humanity to be the protoculture, and orders all of her troops off Earth immediately. Boddole Burado orders a large-scale offensive on Earth to avenge the Geran branch fleet. U.N. Spacy officer Lyle Craze defects to the Burado fleet. Meltrandi ace Misty defects to the U.N. Spacy and singlehandedly saves the Prometheus II from a Zentradi attack using a "borrowed" fighter.
The U.N. Spacy and Zentradi attack the fleeing Leplendis fleet, destroying most of it. Lyle Craze is captured while leading an offensive agaisnt the overextended U.N. Spacy fleet, and reveals the existence of the communications filter, which blocks out the Minmay Attack. U.N. Spacy forces recapture the moon, and launch an attack on the communications system, which is aboard Quamzin's cruiser. Quamzin's ship is hit by the Prometheus II's Daedalus attack, Quamzin is defeated and the communications filter is destroyed.
The U.N. Spacy forces launch the Minmay Attack against the now-unprotected Burado fleet with the support of Lyle Craze's Zentradi branch fleet, causing most of the Burado main fleet to turn on Boddole Burado, and allowing VF-4ST Strike Sirens piloted by Misty and Major Kiryu to enter the Burado mobile fortress and kill Boddole Burado with heavy particle beam rifles.
NB: This conflict marks the first use of the VF-4 Siren, VF-4SP Super Siren, and VF-4ST Strike Siren, as well as the introduction of two major technologies... beam gunpods, and funnels.

Reconstruction Resumed (2037-2054)
No new Zentradi or Meltrandi attacks occur during this period. Reconstruction efforts continue on Earth.
2050: The Takachihoff Company starts development of a civilian-use variable aircraft, the VC series.
2051: The Takachihoff Company debuts the VC-051, a civilian-use variable plane with no battroid mode designed for use in search & rescue operations and firefighting.

The Second Space War (May 2054 - December 2054)
The Zentradi invasion of 2054 marks the single largest conflict with the Zentradi since Space War 1. The prolonged conflict caused enormous damage, and cost the U.N. Spacy most of its fleet. Very few details are available about this conflict.
2054 May 6: Rogue Zentradi forces attack the Macross-class emigration ship Million Star only 1.8 light years outside the Sol system.
2054 May: The U.N. Spacy establishes a defense perimeter at Pluto's orbit. The defense relies heavily on the Minmay attack to counter the numerical superiority of the Zentradi fleet.
2054 December: The Zentradi invasion grinds to a halt against the Pluto defense perimeter, and heavy losses are sustained on both sides. The war ends, but the U.N. Spacy has lost most of the former Vrlitwhai branch fleet, and many of its other ships.
Shortly after the end of the conflict, the U.N. Spacy captures another Zentradi factory satellite, which provides the U.N. Spacy with an enormous amount of new technology.
The Overtechnology Boom (2055-2092)
Between 2055 and 2092, the technology obtained from the newly captured factory satellite enables human engineers to dramatically improve military and civilian technology. During this period, all of the familiar ships and mecha seen in Macross IIare developed.
2060s: The U.N. Spacy develops several new classes of ship, exploiting their improved grasp of the overtechnology used by the Zentradi and Meltrandi.
The VF-XX Zentradi Valkyrie, a Generation 1.5 variable fighter, is developed as a practical demonstration of the new overtechnoloy systems discovered aboard the captured factory satellite.
The VC-051 gains popularity as a leisure aircraft, and sales to recreational users begin to rival the sales to the civil authorities.
2072: The VF-2 Valkyrie II, the first Generation 2 variable fighter, is introduced. The fighter sports a larger battroid mode for improved close combat performance.
NB: The VF-2(A) exists only as design sketches, which depict an aircraft almost identical to the VF-2SS, but with only one short, thick beam gun on the right side of the head, and several airbrakes scattered across the frame.
2075: Hibiki Kanzaki and Sylvie Gena are born on Earth.
2079: The Takachihoff Company releases their second civilian valkyrie, the VC-079, designed for use as an observation plane. It quickly becomes popular with SNN and other news agencies.
2081: The VF-2SS Valkyrie II, a specialized space variable fighter, is introduced, along with its Super Armed Pack system.
2082: A rogue Zentradi fleet attacks the U.N. Spacy, and is swiftly dealt a crushing defeat by the U.N. Spacy's new ships and fighters. Hibiki Kanzaki is inspired to pursue a career in journalism after watching news coverage of the battle.
2086: The VF-2JA Icarus, a specialized atmospheric variable fighter, is introduced.
2092: (Macross II) War begins between the U.N. Spacy and the Mardook Empire.
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Big differences. UNG/NUNG never had to deal with several Boddole size main fleets, they had stolen 20 factory satellites, and Shinsei Industries and General Galaxy rose up as competitors.

Macross II timeline they had to deal with Boddole size fleets in 2036-37 and Space War II in 2054. UN Spacy only captured two factory satellites and Takachihoff Company is the only mentioned major VF manufacturer.
Another Boddole size fleet would have wiped humanity off the galactic map for good. There's a reason they haven't fought them a second time and the idea of Macross II's timeline being even remotely capable of another confrontation of that scale with how little their variable fighter tech has improved is fucking laughable.

The VF-2SS is a cool design though.
I like Macross II, probably third out of all the Macross series. However, seeing the whole history of it like this makes it really hard to believe. It's really poorly thought out and doesn't make a lot of sense.

Then again, the "real" timeline isn't very consistent either. I think Macross would be a lot better if they didn't try to make everything take place in one timeline.
Variable fighter development and deployment is the most consistent part of the canonverse, though.
Where they lacked in VF development Macross II verse is better off with Destroid development.

The only upgraded Destroids in the main timeline were the Cheyenne II and the MK-XV Super Defender. One can consider the VB-6 Konig Monster and VA-3 Invader as Destroids too.

Well, they've got some development done at least, according to the above posts. In the cases of Quamzin's Counterattack(s) and the Marduk War both hit the UNG in it critical weakness which was an apparent lack of even a Plan B in case the Minmay Attack failed.

You'd think they would have learned a hard lesson after the first Quamzin's Counterattack.

Alternative timelines and strapping four Zentradi warships to a main body and calling it a new capital ship class aside, I think it's reasonable to assume that given the technological boost gained from the second satellite and that it comes after that timeline's rendition of the VF-4, the VF-2 is some parts at least equal to the VF-11 if not better to some degree. Shame that the series never elaborated on how the Marduk came to power, though - then again, without the underlying genetic link of the Protoculture-descended species in the main timeline (though they did have that "Marduk mythic space ark" subplot that ALSO went nowhere since Ishtar decided that the original Macross wasn't it... or did she? I can't recall), it's a lot easier to assume that the Marduk happened to be the typical "5-minutes more advanced than u" aliens who snagged an entire Zentradi battlegroup and spent most of the next few centuries being assholes to other species and occasionally snagging other Zentradi units to replace their losses. The story not making any mention of off-Earth colonies (either they were ignored or the UNG was really spooked by the disappearance of the Megaroad, since according to >>13716583 some attempt at extrasolar colonization was attempted at least).

VF-2, especially in fighter mod, is amazingly sleek as fuck, though.
Well, it's all stapled together from different non-canon video games.
Megaroad 1 disappeared in the main timeline in 2016. No such mention in the Macross II timeline though.

The only other mentioned emigration mission was the Macross Class Million Star which was attacked by Zentradi that started the ball rolling for Space War II.

Macross Chronicle does present similar terms for Macross Zero and Macross II.
Worldguide 02A: The Birdman
>>Mayan Shrine Maidens
>>Among the majority of Earthlings, who lost their space-time resonance abilities due to gene manipulation, they are from a family in which the space-time resonance abilities remained in order to regenerate and activate the Birdman. They have the beliefs of the Protoculture and Birdman at the genetic level. Also, it's said that families with identical abilities exist in various places on the Earth.
Worldguide II 01A: Marduk
>>Related Matter: The Zentraadi That Are Controlled By Songs
>>The Marduk controlled and enslaved the Zentraadi with the songs of women referred to as "Song Shrine Maidens (Emulators)". In addition, they didn't only brainwash the Zentraadi with songs, they also used Brainwashing Devices within the Marduk ships.

DYRL presents the Zentradi has a genetic memory of culture upon hearing the translated ancient Protoculture song Do You Remember Love. Macross Chronicle hints that Mayan Shrine Maidens have a genetic memory of the Protoculture and the Bird Human.

Upon hearing the Earther song Ishtar got a vision of a ship, the Ship of the Alus. Ishtar is a Marduk Song Shrine Maiden.

Both Shrine Maiden groups have Songs of Death.

According to Macross Chronicle the Marduk believe themselves to be the Chosen People. Destroying other civilizations along the way. The Ship of the Alus was a prophecy made by a prophet.

>The story not making any mention of off-Earth colonies (either they were ignored or the UNG was really spooked by the disappearance of the Megaroad, since according to >>13716583 some attempt at extrasolar colonization was attempted at least).

I could have sworn I read somewhere the UNG decided not to venture out into space to prevent further encounters with hostile aliens after SW1 and the later conflicts. Might have be fan-made I forget.
It can produce approximately 10% less thrust than a VF-11, so not very good.
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