Is there anything more ironic that war in gundam universes is

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Are you saying that UC happens after GBF?

Hmmm.

Ok.

>>13708925

I mean in the real world.

The message of the shows is often that the greed of adults is what fuels the conflicts between people, but really the conflicts continue because banrise needs them to in order to sell more merchandise. There will never be peace because of those damn adults.

>>13708957

That's the whole message of Turn A, and the reason Tomino used to put it after ALL the Gundam.
Gym was meant to be Bandai, with the endless war and lust for it.

>The Gundam universes would default to peace if BanNam didn't need more sales

Lol, not how it works, war is guarenteed for all of history
War is the way of man
Man is the means of war
Ave Nex Alea

>>13708966

Sorry not Gym, Gym is the fans, Guin is Bandai and Gym is the Gunota obsessed with action and more mobile suits battles in their Gundam.

>>13708968
Considering it's a fictional universe, I'd say that yes, conflict would end if you stop writing about the setting. As would everything else end.

>>13708971
>Gym is the Gunota obsessed with action and more mobile suits battles in their Gundam
that's also Al at the start of 0080

>>13708916
Plastic toys aren't war machines though.

>>13708968
This guy fucking gets it.

Gundam, as a whole, is about how war is never ending. The true face of mankind is that war is its natural state, not peace, and any peace that is achieved is only temporary. So long as mankind exists, there will be war.

The only thing that Gundam protagonists can do is achieve a temporary peace that is broken once the next conflict arises. That's the whole fucking point of Turn A's Black History.

>>13709116

Then what's the point, the protags never seem that invested in the outcome anyway, why do they feel justified in killing so many themselves?

>>13709186

Because plot reasons.

Honestly, this wouldn't be so egregious if most Gundam protags didn't so blatantly dust off their hands at the end of every show and proclaim "and then nothing bad happened EVER AGAIN". Which always rings hollow and cheap because its a prequel to 4 other shows of bad things happening in that same timeline.

>>13709186
You wouldn't want to fight for what's right in the hope that sustainable peace can someday be achieved?

>>13709275

No one in Gundam ever thinks about problems that they cannot easily shoot and declare defeated. The closest anyone has ever come to proposing societal change in Gundam was "lets drop an asteroid and kill millions of people, somehow resulting in the policy change we want! GREAT IDEA, HANS!"

Because nothing that takes place outside of a mobilesuit matters, the only solution to any problem is to shoot your beam rifle at it, and any problem that cannot be solved by beam rifles endures in the long run, because killing the specific assholes in front of you does nothing to solve the greater situation that allowed those assholes to rise to power in the first place.

>>13709275

that's what both sides of every conflict want, how can they claim to be fighting for peace when most of the time they are just fighting because they ended up in a suit

>>13709116
Only because every human didn't become a newtype yet.

>>13709275

You, assuming you are >>13709116, just said that war will never end.

Which means sustainable peace can never be achieved. All they're fighting for is a temporary solution, a band-aid on the problem.

>>13709419

Gundam basically suffers the same problem as Batman. Since the primary focus of the franchise is milking the cow as long as possible, no actual progress can ever be allowed to happen. Batman will always choose to 'clean up Gotham' by punching muggers in the face and reacting to the plans of insane uncontainable supervillians instead of stopping to ask why Gotham has such a high crime rate in the first place. Even if the Joker ends up dead at the end of this Very Special Issue, it doesn't matter. No one expects him to stay dead, its just a matter of how long the writers can hold their breath before they bring him back and under what circumstances.

Likewise, Zeon will NEVER die for real, only dive beneath the waves before resurfacing under a new name. Gundam cannot escape the gravity of the original series, which is why with one or two unpopular exceptions every Gundam follows the same cookie cutter mold, trapped in an endless cycle of self promotion.
It cannot even afford to seek out new conflicts anymore to pad itself out. Macross has never fought the same bad guy twice in between its various shows, but despite getting more than twice as many series and far more money to work with Gundam remains Earth vs Space Colonies until its dying breath. IBO's greatest claim to fame so far is being the first Gundam to recognize the existence of Mars in decades. So original!

It doesn't matter what the characters say, claiming to be fighting for a longer term idealistic cause is simply part of the cookie cutter formula now. For Gundam, wanting change is just part of the charade they play, wedged in between the V-Fins and the masked rivals.

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>>13709471
>IBO's greatest claim to fame so far is being the first Gundam to recognize the existence of Mars in decades.
What a newfag.

>>13709471
>the first Gundam to recognize the existence of Mars in decades
You mean the second in 5 years

>>13709287

The Gundam world can be defined as "if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail".

>>13709505
>>13709511

Damn, I forgot about Age. That was a blessing. Here's hoping I can do it again.

I guess I have to take back what I said: IBO has no claim to fame after all. Its just the usual.

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OP, what you're reacting to is an inevitable result of Gundam becoming such a huge franchise, and you're spot-on in diagnosing the self-contradiction that lies at the heart of that.

This is exactly why I think 0080 is the only Gundam spin-off that's any good. It directly addressed this contradiction, by featuring a young protagonist who's enamored with war machines, then showing him just how fucked up war really is. It very strictly avoids the wish-fulfillment that the rest of the franchise indulges in.

>>13709532

This. It even ends with Al's friends saying hopefully "I bet there will be another war soon!" and Al breaking down into tears because none of them understand what that means or what Al has lost.

In war in the pocket people die for petty, stupid reasons fighting battles that never needed to be fought, spreading tragedy in the process. And the only reason they needed was 'there is a war on'. Everyone in that show would have been better off if they had just stayed home.

>>13709471
>F91 had the Crossbone Vanguard conflict which was space aristocrats trying to assert control over the lower classes in the Frontier colonies
>Victory had the Zanscare War which was just a proxy war in the ongoing Earth-Jupiter conflict
>00 was about revolution against warring political blocs, and then about insurgency against an oppressive regime
>Turn A was about the reunion of mankind with the more advanced space colonies trying to return to Earth as opposed to drawing away from it
>G was just magic robots martial arts
Most series focus on Earth vs space colonies, but calling everything 'Zeon dressed up' definitely isn't right. Don't get me wrong, most series are just that (Zanscare was one step away from Zeon, SEED is just a UC rehash, etc)

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>>13708966
Whenever I think I can't hate Turn A fans more, one says stupid shit like this.

>>13708966

Anaheim Electronics was probably meant to be Bandai well before that.

>>13709531

Well it is the first to completely ditch energy weapons. And may ditch having A Char as well. Though G did that too, since while it did have a masked man he wasn't really A Char.

>>13709186
Because any peace, however temporary, is still worth fighting for. Besides, they're the protagonists, of course they're supposed to fight and win, it's just that they can't win permanently.

>>13709287
Wing did it pretty okay too. As many problems as it has, it does address the political issues at hand far better than most other Gundam entries. It isn't just "kill the boss bad guy who's causing the bad things to happen and then win forever" like most every other show is.

>>13710839

I agree, Wing gets a lot of shit but it did have some very interesting ideas.

The Zero system for example is much better than Newtype space magic: the pilots become superhuman at the expense of their sanity.

And with the politics there was never a clear bad guy since all the antagonists were grey or anti-villains. And not only that but a big part of the show had the pilots wondering what was their part in the war and what side should they take after all went to shit.

>>13708916
>The message is anti-war,
No it's not. Different shows have different messages. ex.CCA's is that humanity, as a whole, holds great potential. G-Reco's is that kids should see the world for themselves and fight their own battles rather those of the societies that raised them. Turn A's is that as surely as people will see conflict, others will seek peace even if it means fighting. The only strictly anti-war Gundam is probably 0080. The original MSG warns more against the natural distance between human beings that "understanding" embodied by newtypes can't bridge. ZZ's message is that grand ambitions and schemes are bound to collapse under their own weight, and is something that defines both factions of Neo-Zeon and even the AEUG and EFSF; they literally have a character who shows up to spell it out for the viewers in the desert arc.

>>13709413
One of the running themes of Gundam is that even understanding (embodied by newtypes) cannot solve problem when humans are personally opposed to one another, whether it's on an intimate level (Lalah and Amuro) or ideologically (any MC vs villain) or both (Amuro and Char).

Marketing a weapon for peace reasons does not raise many eyebrows as lets say invading a country

>"the new AR-2000 will be a new weapon to fight against terror" blah blah blah