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The thing I never understood about Macross...
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You are currently reading a thread in /m/ - Mecha

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The thing I never understood about Macross is why would you WANT to go from Fighter mode to Walker mode?

When has it ever been the case that a Fighter Pilot has looked down on the battlefield and said, "Damn, I wish I was down there with the Infantry, not flying around at 40,000 angels at twice the speed of sound"
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>>11842649
Before Macross autists start giving their autistic in-universe answers, know this: mechs are a ridiculous concept, and their sole purpose is to look cool

So here's your answer: because they look COOL
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>>11842649
>flying around at 40,000 angels
>angels
Go dance with an angel, mister!
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>>11842649
>40,000 angels
>not angels 40.
Back to flight school.
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>>11842712

>Angels 40
>Not FOR-TEE ANE-GELS

Back to Flight School, yank
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>>11842719
>Not calling all angels.
Back to music school, limey.
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what happened here
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Have you ever seen a Macross show?

The military doesn't exist outside of the Variable Fighters.

There are no infantry, no tanks, etc.

VF's gotta pick up the slack.
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I feel this is an appropriate time to post this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW8Z0BEUWsQ
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>>11842734
who needs a tank when your planes can walk and you have a koenig monster
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>>11842780

Imagine how much more guns and armor we could fit on a mech if we didn't force it to also fly.

It'd make a K-monster looks like a Recce plane
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The Gundam answer:
Space and AMBAC. Now STFU.
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>>11842846

But VF's were developed before Mankind's ability to reach space in a meaningful manner.
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>>11842649
>トムキャット
>TOMUKYATTO
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>>11842817
Those are called destroids, and yes they have tons of guns
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>>11842687
Helicopters and some aircraft like the A-10 fly low to the ground and get shot at from infantry.

It's called close air support.

Warfare is a combined arms match, there is no be all and do all weapon system.

Although for the cost it would take to build a Valkryie why would you risk it getting shot down from ground fire.

I know, because it would look cool.
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>>11842649
Perfect VTOL ability on almost any terrain.
The ability to use static cover and concealment.
Avoiding AA weaponry.
It looks intimidating.
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Partially this >>11842734

The big reason the whole "Boots on the Ground" issue is such a big deal in modern wars is because of the west's over-reliance on Aircraft. Sure, they can bomb the fuck out of a country, but they can't take and hold ground. Need boots on the ground to do that.

TAKE and HOLD ground. That's the one weakness of aircraft in a strategical sense. But Valkryies? They can bomb the fuck out of the enemy, THEN go down to take and hold ground.

Why wouldn't you want something that can do it all?
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>>11842649

>Bandit on your tail
>Can't shake him
>Transform into mech, simply turn your torso around and shoot at the fucker behind you
>Problem solved

Just because you can transform into a humanoid doesn't automatically mean you're using it to fight on the ground.
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>>11842922

Awwww, but that takes the fun outta dogfights. The fun is in trying to put your nose on his ass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQORXWmGMGk
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>>11842649
Because your flight plan ended up being CAS and other ground pounding shit.

Also your enemy is all giant people and how are you supposed to operate their machinery if you're not giant too?
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>>11842948

>Because your flight plan ended up being CAS

But the A part of CAS means you're in the air, not on the ground with the Marines getting ambushed.
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>>11842922
I've always wondered about why fighter jets don't all have rear pointing radar (Su-35 and a few others has it I believe) or more importantly, rear facing missiles.
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>>11843225
>y u no rear-facing radar?
Because radar is extremely expensive, and because it's mainly used for awareness outside of visual range and for locking and/or guiding missiles. So basically the only advantage of a rear-facing radar is that you can see things behind you that are outside of visual range.

Sure they could make rear-facing missiles, but those missiles would have to be extraordinarily agile and they would literally slow themselves down into the enemy instead of just intercepting them, which would probably make it a hell of a lot harder to program them and to get them to intercept accurately.
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>>11843225
modern missiles are fully capable of doing 180 degree turns as soon as they're launched, just fyi
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>>11843303
>modern missiles can do 180s after launching too!
Ehhhhhhhh...

This is one of those things that sounds cool and practical, but isn't. Missiles expend energy to intercept their target and damage/destroy it. If a missile does a 180 immediately after being launched, that's probably a third or more of its energy wasted right then and there, and it'll probably fail to intercept its target.

A really good heater might be able to get something close to a 180 and hit its target, but the target is also painfully aware of the fact that you've launched a missile at him. He's just going to drop a missile on you in return and then go defensive. If he drops off your rear-facing radar before your missile locks, then you've just wasted a missile.

So basically if he's reading a book and not paying attention to the object dislodging itself from your wing at a considerably higher speed with thick cloud of smoke behind it, then yeah you can kill them easily.
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>>11843322
>>11843303
Actually that's more for shooting at things almost immediately below you.
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>>11842649
>The thing I never understood about Macross is why would you WANT to go from Fighter mode to Walker mode?

Because the people who designed the VF decided that it would be a swell idea to create giant robot infantry in case they had to fight against giant alien infantry.

I think they talked about this in SDF, how they examined the space wreck and determined that the crew were HUGE, so they decided that they needed HUGE ROBOTS to fight the HUGE ALIENS.
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>>11843322
It turns 180 when the missile is still in free fall moment before igniting it's the rocket motor.
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I think the real question for macross is why anyone would be using anything other than gerwalk at all times
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>>11843521
muh niggah
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>>11842916
Because even if something like a Valkyrie outright replaced conventional fighters and tanks, you still can't take and hold ground like normal infantry can.

At the end of the day, the Valkyrie is still a vehicle which disallows it from setting up and occupying a building or COP much like an infantry platoon operating out of Bradley or Strykers.
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>>11842649
Confirmed for never even watching Macross. They explain the reason for the mech form in the 2nd episode of SDF, it's for fighting against the giant humanoid aliens. Also you can pull off sick maneuvers like cobra into gerwalk.
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>>11843521
Fighter mode's handy for getting from place to place quickly, but Gerwalk's definitely the most useful.
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>>11843621
The fighter mode shouldn't be any faster than gerwalk in space, though.
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>>11842916

Because those are two different missions with different requirements. Why bring your expensive fighter jet with its exquisitely trained pilot down to fight in the streets where Cousin Omar can bushwhack it with a $20 RPG?

Multipurpose units usually end up being outperformed by cheaper specialists. This is why we build different kinds of things, because even the differences between the CAS and Air Superiority mission demands a vastly different airframe. Look at the F-35 project for a good example of multipurpose bloat delivering a unit that's arguably worse than its more focused predecessors.
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>>11843479
They anticipated combat in an environment designed for giant humanoids. Valkyries can navigate that environment and use interfaces and door handles and shit like that.
>>
So when are we gonna get a good ass Macross game with online multiplayer where all three modes feel unique and useful for given situations? I wanna hit my afterburners and then swing around in Gerwalk and shoot down a bunch of pursuing missiles with my gunpod. I wanna sneak through the corridors of a Zentradi battleship in Battroid mode and steal their flag after punching one in the balls.
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>>11843774
Good thing Valkyries don't fight human sized infantry huh retard?
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>>11843753
In GERWALK the two main engines aren't necessarily pointing in the direction of forward travel, though. It's either just a sub-engine or the legs are used for a bit of forward thrust but kept ready for maneuvering more than propulsion.
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>>11842649
>why would you WANT to go from Fighter mode to Walker mode?

>Walker

>WALKER

Son, wtf are you talking about?

You mean Gerwalk mode? Battroid mode? Both?

You do realize both modes can still fly, right?
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>>11843225
But anon, Geld team had rear firing missiles!
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>>11843571

The first rule of mecha shows: Mechs are much, much, much, much, MUCH cooler than grunts without mechs.

There's a reason that the Infantry get's no love. In order to make them interesting, you gotta give them mechs.

Or Motorcycles.
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>>11842916
Infantry are good at taking and holding ground because they are cheap.
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>>11844915

More that it's much easier to refuel Infantry than it is anything else.

Want to keep Infantry on a hilltop for extended periods of time? Just make sure they get food and water and ammo from time to time.

Want to keep a VF on a hilltop for an extended period of time? You're going to have to build an entire fucking base to keep the maintence and part-replacement process going.
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>>11844932
That's still basically an issue of cost.
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Because even in Battleroid Mode, Valks can fly. And they're even more manueverable.

http://youtu.be/t9pZSggOA28
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I've never watched Macross before.

Where should I start?
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>>11844963

Robotech
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>>11844963
Do You Remember Love? as primer, then go into the original SDFM series. The quality issues are greatly exaggerated, if you expect it to look like exactly what it is; an 80's tv anime, it's fine. Not spectacular looking, but fine. It's worth it just for the way it goes in depth with the side characters and the universe. If you absolutely can't stand the animation or sit through it, it's alright to skip it, but I think you miss out on the heart of the franchise if you do.
If you like Minmay's music, treat yourself with Flashback 2012 after either the movie or series. It's a music video collection that somewhat acts as a direct sequel to the story of the movie/series, albeit not very detailed and kind of vague, since it's all told by visuals with no exposition.

Then you can watch Macross Plus It's not a direct sequel, but takes place afterwords. Truth be told, you could watch it independently before even seeing SDFM, but doing so before helps explain things a little more. Either the Macross Plus OVA series or movie is fine. If you're interested in the history of the universe as alluded to in SDFM, and the character of Roy Focker, the MAcross zero OVA series is decent, although not great. M0 is probably the most unnecessary Macross-related thing to watch, but it's not terrible.

From there, you can go onto either tv series continuation. While you could go in order and start with Macross 7, then Frontier, be aware that both have very divided opinions. In short:

If you like the Macross universe,but want a very different look at it (especially if you like the music angle), check out Macross 7. It's probably the largest "chunk" of the universe, with the longest TV series, two OVA series, a movie, and a ton of music. However, it feels very different from prior series, so be aware.

If you enjoyed either SDFM interpretation, and want more of that, check out Frontier. It's the latest continuation that feels like a thematic remake in many ways.
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DYRL they flew the same valk around for an extended period of time with no maintenance, assuming it does not get damaged in combat you can assume the overtech planes were way over engineered in the durability department
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>>11844959
But they are not as fast in battleroid mode. All aerodynamics are lost as well, so they have to burn for more thrust at a lesser speed. Not a good trade off.

And a bad trade off is what if a round is sunk into the thing damaging the transformation ability? Then you're stuck in whatever mode you happen to be in, and against an enemy that may be faster than you at the time.
So what gain is your fancy fighter now?
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>>11842649
Because planes aren't the be-all end-all combat force. With this design, you get the speed of a proper fighter/interceptor, the v/stol capability of an attack helicopter, and with the ability to go down on the ground, a loiter capability that by default is infinitely better than any plane ever built, or that even can ever be built due to the very nature of what they are.

Sure, you can achieve the same result with combined arms, but if you have one unit that can perform any and all jobs, you not only have a much more versatile and adaptable fighting force, but you supply and maintenance programs become vastly simpler too, since everyone would basically be using the same base machine rather than a few dozen other ones.

That particular approach shows through in real life a lot too. Stuff like the design and parts commonalities between the Huey and Cobra helicopters. If all or most of your machines use mainly the same parts, then you don't have to keep so many types of spares around, and maintenance techs can service more of your fighting force without having to be retrained.

Plus, giant robots are fucking cool. But then, you knew that, right? You're on /m/ FFS.
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>>11845675

>where is your fancy fighter now

Fighting Zentradi infantry with knives and fists.
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>>11844915
>>11844932
>>11844954
Infantry require just over a million shekels to be raised to US Army competency standard

There's great difference between disciplined soldiers and ragtag bunch of freedom fighters and conscripts.
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