What if Amuro defected to Zeon with the gundam?
What if Kamille joined the Titans?
What if Yazan killed Jewdough and stole the zeta?
What if Ryouma died at the beggining of getter robo?
What if Haman raised Mineva properly?
What if /m/?
>What if Kamille joined the Titans?
I think this is explored in Gundam vs Zeta Gundam. I never played it, but I recall reading that he ends up getting Four as a partner.
Anyways. If Amuro defected to Zeon, Zeon would have greatly advanced technology-wise and would have easily won the war.
If Kamille joined the Titans, the Titans would have won, probably before Axis ever showed up, and would have blown Axis away.
If Yazan stole the Zeta, he'd probably have joined up with Axis just to fight more.
If Mineva was raised properly, Unicorn wouldn't happen.
I'm sure the games would have explored such scenarios.
>What if Amuro defected to Zeon with the gundam?
Zeon was fucked from the getgo, and were losing badly. A gundam on their side would have been just another super weapon that would take out a lot of units, to only be destroyed in the end. Slow down the Federation.
Actually if you remove White Base entirely, the One Year War would have still ended in Federation victory, it would have just taken longer. Maybe the 2 year war. or 3 year war.
>Anyways. If Amuro defected to Zeon, Zeon would have greatly advanced technology-wise and would have easily won the war.
Highly unlikely. The RX-78-2 is itself obsolete towards October and November of the OYW. Zeon were never going to win the war, especially after the Antarctica Treaty. They lacked the manpower and resources necessary for a protracted war. This is a direct reference to Imperial Japanese strategy prior to attacks on American-allied Philippines and other European-held territories in SE Asia.
Tomino was highly critical of the Empire in MSG, to which Japanese empathizing with Zeon in the intervening years is quite clearly not the effect he was going for. It's why G-Reco is a not-so-subtle warning to those people that a return to those old, glorious days of the Empire is a terrible, terrible idea.
>The RX-78-2 is itself obsolete towards October and November of the OYW.
On the other hand, if Amuro runs off with the gendum the feddies never get the jims. There is that to consider. Though knowing Zeon engineering they probably won't make jims either and keep making stupid prototypes except now they have v-fins.
> What if Kamille joined the Titans?
I honestly don't get this one. Kamille loathed the Titans from the first seconds of Zeta. He'd literally have to be a completely different character to ever end up joining the Titans. It's like asking what if Vann worked for the The Claw? Sure, it could happen, but you'd have to go so far back and change so much shit to make it happen that you'd end up with a completely different character as well as a completely different show.
> Anyways. If Amuro defected to Zeon, Zeon would have greatly advanced technology-wise and would have easily won the war.
Isn't it pretty much canon that Zeon was losing the war regardless of technology due to resource shortages in suits, pilots etc? Them getting the Gundam's lunar technology wouldn't seem likely to change that. Especially when they had a better suit all round by the war's end regardless in the Gelgoog, even if the armor wasn't quite as good.
> If Kamille joined the Titans, the Titans would have won, probably before Axis ever showed up, and would have blown Axis away.
How? Kamille only made such a big difference on the AEUG side because they were such a small group. The Titans were bigger and they already had several exceptional pilots in Yazan, Scirocco (kinda), Maour and so on. More likely is that Amuro would have eventually joined them instead of Karaba and things would have probably gone much the same, especially given that one of the theme's in Tomino Gundam is that individuals generally don't make a huge difference in outcomes.
> If Mineva was raised properly, Unicorn wouldn't have happened.
Alternately, if you read it as Haman being a non-psycho and raising her as more of a mother and less of a regent/dictator then ZZ would have never happened, never mind Unicorn.
>Actually if you remove White Base entirely, the One Year War would have still ended in Federation victory
what's with everyone's boner in imagining that the White Base and the Gundam were ultimately minor in the OYW
>Amuro and the Gundam pretty much won the entire war on their own.
No, they don't. The White Base acts as a diversion almost its entire service life, drawing away aces that would have been deployed elsewhere. That was General Revil's entire plan; to bide enough time for the Federation to amass a critical amount of resources, and then make a massive push towards Zeon.
In fact, White Base doesn't even participate in a major Federation military action until Odessa, where Amuro just shoots down some (nuclear) missiles and Federal forces win the day.
There were at least 8 RX-78 models (not counting Pixies), though only 6 (2 through 7) were operational during the war, and all of them had learning computers aboard.
He didn't have brain damage by the time of CCA and hadn't had it with quite a few years. He still didn't join Char for the simple reason that he never would have sympathized with his cause at any point during Z or ZZ. He hated people like CCA Char, who used force as a means to enact their views and says as much quite explicitly in Zeta.
In GvZG, he joined the Titans because he was annoyed with the AEUG for killing his parents.
>Especially when they had a better suit all round by the war's end regardless in the Gelgoog, even if the armor wasn't quite as good.
Thing is, they had shit pilots. And Amuro accomplished a lot - with him on their side, the Big Zam would have done much more damage, for instance.
>How? Kamille only made such a big difference on the AEUG side because they were such a small group.
Exactly. The AEUG wasn't very large, and so not having Kamille would really fuck them up power-wise. The AEUG might not have even survived Jaburo.
Well, if Amuro defected, the Zeeks would have an easier time of capturing or destroying White Base from the get-go.
The One Year War is just a space opera retelling of the Pacific Theater of WWII, with the Federation as the United States, and Zeon as Imperial Japan. In particular, the strategies of Imperial High Command prior to the war are reflected in the Zabi's plans for war. Remember, MSG just follows the adventures of White Base, but the war itself was far greater in scale.
>the Zeeks would have an easier time of capturing or destroying White Base from the get-go.
Sure, but in the grand scheme of things, it's still inconsequential; the war was won because Zeon simply lacked the resources to fight off a much more stable economy.
>There were at least 8 RX-78 models (not counting Pixies), though only 6 (2 through 7) were operational during the war, and all of them had learning computers aboard.
One of these days I'll try to count how many Gundam models were retconned into the OYW just for the sheer hilarity.
> Thing is, they had shit pilots. And Amuro accomplished a lot - with him on their side, the Big Zam would have done much more damage, for instance.
Thing is, the Federation didn't win because of Amuro or the White Base, they won because they had a lot more of everything. Even without the learning computer in the Gundam they still had the schematics for the units and would simply have built more. The war would have been a lot more drawn out, but the war would still have gone the Fed's way because Zeon simply didn't have the resources to win it at any point and once the colony drop failed it was never going to go their way because of it.
> Exactly. The AEUG wasn't v ery large, and so not having Kamille would really fuck them up power-wise.
Except they'd more than likely just have Amuro instead. Who is at least Kamille's equal as a pilot. Even early appearances in Zeta show him as a dangerous pilot, and that was when he was still scared of the idea of piloting to some degree.
> Well, if Amuro defected, the Zeeks would have an easier time of capturing or destroying White Base from the get-go.
So they'd find a new distraction. Or simply give up some of their less important sites in a strategic retreat while they build resources same as before. Neither Amuro or the White Base was necessary to winning the war is the point. Zeon having both of them, White Base, the Gundam, the Guntank, the works wouldn't change that because they're no more a war-winning asset on their own for Zeon than they are for the Feds.
What if the Zudah was chosen instead of the Zaku I, and variants and tweaks were made of and to the Zudah?
No need, here it is:
RX-78-1 - prototype, used for parts for the 2. In Origin continuity, destroyed on Side 7.
RX-78-2 - parade-colors version
RX-78-3 - +magnetic coating
RX-78-4 - prototype for MS-sized mega-particle cannon and BST parts. Destroyed upon firing of said weapon
RX-78-5 - BST parts prototype.
RX-78-6 - Mid-range prototype, equipped with shoulder-mounted cannons
RX-78-7 - space-combat specialized prototype. Completed, but not deployed until 0081 due to the end of the war. Became testbed for FA type equipment
RX-78-8 - MSV only, not shown up elsewhere yet.
Project G-4 models:
RX-78NT-1 - the Alex from 0080
the Pixie and Netix models also fall into here.
Anaheim Gundam Development Project:
RX-78GP00, 01, 02A/02, 03 and 04G
After these, along with some unofficial projects, the RX naming scheme was changed from date to location of manufacturing, and we no longer have any RX-78 models.
>what's with everyone's boner in imagining that the White Base and the Gundam were ultimately minor in the OYW
Because Zeon faced obstacles, namely that they were out numbered severely. The war is pretty much a done deal at least half way through and they just bring out super weapons in a desperate bid to win.
Federation victory was assured really early on. Gundam and White base just sped things up.
The way I understood it, Zeon only really needed to capture Jaburo to have a decisive lead. Wouldn't having the Gundam and having the people that the Gundam hadn't killed by that point give them the advantage? I would imagine, Amuro, Char, Ramba Ral, the Black Tri Stars, and the other mooks might be able to handle it.
It's unlikely Zeon would ever have been able to take Jaburo, and even if they had, they would not have been able to hold it. That's why Zeon opted to drop Side 2 on Jaburo rather than attempt a ground offensive in the early days of the war.
Also, remember that MSG begins in September of 0079. The Federation, using almost entirely conventional forces, rout the Zeonic Earth-based offensive by November, followed by a single month's counteroffensive that crushes the primary Zeonic fleets.
>the Federation would lose its biggest asset, the Gundam
The Federation's greatest assets were its overwhelming economic advantage, coupled with a suicidally stupid autocratic family in the Zabis. The Gundam and its technology were never really instrumental in winning the war; the White Base's diversions were useful, but their loss would not have spelled the loss of the Federation.
They wouldn't though. If Zeon can mass produce the Gundam after Amuro defects with it, there's literally no reason that the Federation, with greater resources cannot mass produce it given that they would have the schematics for it along with some of the folks that worked on it in the first place - even if they're missing the main guy, Tem. They wouldn't have the learning computer, but they would again have the plans for it and would simply have someone like Sleggar or Kai piloting an RX-78-4 or whatever in Amuro's place to get data for their GM's instead.
>Except they'd more than likely just have Amuro instead. Who is at least Kamille's equal as a pilot. Even early appearances in Zeta show him as a dangerous pilot, and that was when he was still scared of the idea of piloting to some degree.
And then Karaba is much weaker, nearly at ZZ levels. The Titans mop them up, then start sending more forces into space.
Given that we have literally no idea of what Karaba's role in and influence on the war was, nor of who else was in the group, how large it was etc. I don't really see how you can say that with any kind of authority or conviction. Karaba may have survived just fine without Amuro because they could have been fighting nothing but chumps. Again, we've no idea who they were fighting because that front to the conflict never comes up in the anime and has never even been expanded on in any side story manga or games that I'm aware of.
With no gundam in Feddy hands they wouldn't of gotten all the data the Learning computer gave that was later used to tune and prepare the GM's that would later be rolled out. Without that Data, they'd be a lot less effective. On the flip side, So many aces were killed in the war on zeon side that I think them living would of had a major change on the war as a whole.
I've always been of the opinion that if Zeon had gone about things a bit more intelligently they could have, if not necessarily won the war, then at least stalemated the Federation into accepting an armistice.
First off implementing the Unified Maintenance Plan right from start of MS development and production instead of at the very end of the war when they were already losing would have meant more (and more easily upgraded) mobile suits available as the war went on, along with easier and simpler maintenance and logistics with more shared components between different MS models.
Second would be a better more rationalized R&D complex. We've all heard it before but I'll say it again, just how many resources did Zeon waste on trying to come up with various 'wonder weapons'? Big Zam, Apsalus, and New Type weapons are all impressive from a technical standpoint but those resources could have been better spent improving the basic grunts units. After all Gundams aside the Zaku was perfectly capable of killing GMs and balls in numbers, while still having room to improve and being far cheaper than a Gelgoog.
And finally ignoring the obvious bait that was White Base would have meant that Char would have never had the chance to backstab Garma the way he did. Which means Zeon wouldn't have wasted so many of its aces trying to get revenge which leads to all sorts of knock-on effects as time goes on, and the Zabi's may not have dissolved into infighting (Garma was loved by pretty much all of his siblings and had a moderating effect on their rivalries).
I'm sure there's probably plenty more details that I missed, but that's my basic analysis of how things could have been done differently.
>then at least stalemated the Federation into accepting an armistice.
That's what they did in MSG. The series doesn't say that Zeon surrendered to the federation. It says the EF and Republic of Zeon sign and armistice
>RX-79[G] are just GM[G] with gundam heads aren't they?
It certainly helped, but the loss of which would not have changed the outcome of the war; remember, the Federation defeats Zeon Earthside using almost entirely conventional (read: non-MS) forces, and within two months of forcing Zeon off the planet at Odessa, is able to decisively defeat the Zeon fleets at A Bao Qu. Perhaps those two months would have become much longer without as-efficient GMs, but the Federation would have won it regardless.
The RX-79[G] were built from spare parts from Project V (meaning there were no spares). The GMs were, in some fashion, compatible with the results of Project V, but were not actually from the same source.
What if Zeon only focused on gaining independence and did not try to invade earth? What if the Zabis weren't stupid?
I have no problem for fighting for independence but why did Zeon go far? Did the federation initially deny Zeon of their independence so the Zabis thought the only way to be unrestricted by the federation was to wipe it out?
What if Lalah had survived Amuro's attack and defended Char?
I think that Lalah will get herself a Zeong and together with Char they'll be able to hold feddies. And after the battle they'll take over Zeon.
What if LondoBell fought against both corrupted EF and Char's Neo Zeon?
Zeon was already independent. Here's how it went down (sources are from Bandai entertainment bibles (mostly volume 3)):
- Back in UC0046 Deikun starts his pseudo-religious movement, which, eventually, gets hijacked.
- UC 0059: Federation pressures the Sides economically to maintain Federally-mandated laws.
- In UC 0062 the Side 3 national guard becomes an army
- 0067 Federation refuses to grant autonomy to the Sides
- 0068 Deikun assassinated as are his followers.
- 0069 Degwin Zabi declares himself sovereign, establishes Principality of Zeon.
-0070 to 73: lots of arms buildup on both sides, Dr. Minovsky defects from Zeon,
- 0074-76: huge military buildup in Zeon, most of the classes of ships and early MS in OYW are developed in this time period
- 0077: Federation goes: aw shit, we should probably not have let them have independence, right?
- 0078: Zeon MS begin attacking inter-colony transports to test Federation responses. Later that year, the Principality publicly announces a national mobilization
So, Zeon basically was allowed near-autonomy but they decided that wasn't enough. They had already been independent for almost 10 years before the One Year War.
The Federation did not recognize Zeon as an independent entity and had it under embargo.
The Earth invasion was a result of the failure of the colony drop to bring about the surrender of the Earth Federation. Without their trump card, Zeon decided that invading Earth would be the only way to prolong the war and bring about a favourable conclusion.
Even though they did the federation was still bugging Side 3 and other colonies about them wanting to be independent. Even if they didn't start the war the federation would still pester them down the road.
As far as I know Side 3 was the main hotbed of rebellion. The Federation, which had managed to secure world peace for the better part of a century, was unwilling to risk open war with Side 3 and relied on economic pressure in the form of the embargo.
Oh, and of course Side 6 had a revolution about a year prior to the OYW, which Zeon supported with early-model Zakus, forcing the EF to back down and recognize Side 6 as an independent republic. However, despite this aid, Side 6 did not trust Zeon and was horrified by their One Week Battle atrocities, and ultimately supported the Federation against them.
In my reading, the Federation was not happy to let Side 6 go, and the revolution there was a catalyst for the OYW. They were willing to let things stand as long as Side 3 was contained, but if Side 3 was actively fomenting rebellion among the other colonies then war would be inevitable: Zeon knew this and decided to strike first with the infamous Three Second Warning.
What it Amuro died at A Baoa Qu, but his brand new-type ghost powers convince Char and the White-Base crew to team up who then fly to Zum City where Char kills Kacyilia, and they then join together to rebuild the Republic of Zeon after the war?
Amuro dies at A Baoa Qu, Char kills Kicyllia, gets on ship and commands loyal Zeon Remnants to capture Granada and Zum City. After that he falls asleep and has chat with both Lalah and Amuro's ghosts. Char conquers Side 3 and Granada, signs a peace treaty and prepares for a new war.
Maybe in a different draft where Char's not smashing asteroids into the earth, assuming that might have existed. Kamille is very much against dropping massive objects on people and killing them, and this was before he
saw the Dublin colony drop with his own eyes. Everything Char does in the movie as it is now would utterly disgust Kamille.
>The series doesn't say that Zeon surrendered to the federation.
>It says the EF and Republic of Zeon sign and armistice
And the war was started by PRINCIPALITY of Zeon. There was a coup in the very last stages of the war during the battle at A Bao a Qu which made it a republic again. And Zeon was turned into just another colony so not really any different from surrender.
What if Chirico was never found after the Lido asteroid base raid?