Now that U.C is over
Are NewTypes deprecated? Can we finally move away from that hocus pocus nonsense?
I want another Gundam based on the environment and setting like 0083/08th MS Team, like TopGun was. Wanna be hot shot pilot finally gets his chance to pilot a superb machine.
Not as long as Bandai or Sunrise exists. New things to animate from the OYW will always exist and then you have everything after it.
Shit, give us an OVA about the Titans Test Team or even events of a Jegan team from 0093 to 0099.
>I want another Gundam based on the environment and setting like 0083/08th MS Team
You want a series like the two of the worst UC entries? I'd rather the hocus pocus nonsense.
You do realize that the focus of NewTypes in Unicorn completely derailed the character development, and environment because it's such an easy cop out to create the "story" as you go along. So much screen time was killed when they could of tact on a more interesting original plot and outcome.
Yet it's still somehow better than 8th MS Team and 0083.
> the focus of NewTypes in Unicorn completely derailed the character development, and environment
You're also an idiot if you truly believe that. Unicron has its flaws, but how about some legitimate criticism?
I personally felt that pilots like Amuro and Kamille had more difficulty in their shows in comparison to Unicorn. Banana seemed to merc just about every MS to come his way and beat a cybernewtype to a stalemate in a fistfight despite being a kid. The only times he seemed to "lose" are when he made emotional decisions or purposely held back during a fight
As in they had better character development and more believable difficulties in comparison to Banana, where quite a few situations in the show were solved by the "he's a newtype" logic
You bought up Unicorn yourself and said newtypes derailed the story and characters' development without any supporting evidence. Should I take your word for it without clarification, no questions asked? If you don't want to do that, fine, but stop using terms you don't understand.
No matter how you personally feel, whether a character's development was derailed is either true or not.
Unicorn also happens over the course of, like, two and a half weeks, and the Unicorn Gundam has a deus ex machina function built in. Banagher never really had to develop the same way other Gundam protags did. Someone put it best when they said that the Unicorn is a robot programmed to fuck you in the ass, and Banagher's struggle is holding it back because he doesn't want to hurt anyone. If he actually was a bit bloodthirsty, he could have wiped the floor with anything the Federation or Zeon threw at him.
Amuro and Kamille both had an investment in the politics of their respective conflicts. Banagher's different in that he doesn't have any investment in the Federation or Zeon and just wants what's best for everyone. He's been exposed to both sides and their struggles. He knows this war's stupid as hell, and wants to get out on the other end with as little blood on his hands as possible. The only thing he cares about is Mineva.
I found him annoying at first, but he grew on me. After a second rewatching of Unicorn, I've come to kind of appreciate how different he was as a character. He gets compared to Kira Yamato a lot, but truth be told, I got more of a Loran Cehack vibe from him.
>Now that U.C is over
If anything, it's gotten a rebirth. Unicorn works not only as an end-cap to the original conflict, but opens up a lot of possibilities for the future.
For example, if more Newtypes are allowed roles in the Government, there might be an upsurge in the "Paptimus Scirocco" style newtype leaders, with charisma hax.
IMO what is going to happen is Zeon is going to go the way of the USSR and fold in on itself, while secretly harboring plans for a long term, but re-imagined comeback as a regional power, like Putin's Russia.
Meanwhile, we have an entire set of Colonies over in Jupiter who have been quiet, outside of producing a man like Scirocco.
With the Earth Federation losing some of it's credibility and sway, there might be more splinter factions, and declarations of independence.
You might also see Zeon splinter into two factions. One that disowns the Zabi's and seeks independance as a terrorist cell. And the other under the leadership of Minerva who is trying to make a political safe zone for newtypes to flourish. There will probably be a lot of anti-Newtype sentiment soon.
Whether they use it on official material or not is irrelevant. Since this is a general /m/ topics board and not some sort of weirdo Unicorn-only board, UC is going to result in the following:
>Wait, you mean Universal Century, or Unicorn?
Which is why you shouldn't use UC for Unicorn.
The Neo^10 Zeon Remnants^3 will flee to Saturn and come back in time with a force unlike any Earth has ever seen since The O lugged its fat ass into the region.
Did you mean "retard" instead? If you're going to insult me, at least say something mean.
People will refer explicitly to Universal Century in a situation like this. UC is perfectly valid as an abbreviation of Unicorn and it was labelled as such and people use it that way everywhere.
OP shouldn't have said "U.C." though and instead just UC, since the periods do indicate Universal Century.
From the context it should have been obvious anyways though.
Referring to Unicorn as UC is potentially too confusing.
If you must abbreviate it, the following are some alternatives:
>Uc (lowecase letter "c" to differentiate from UC).
Too bad, Gundam UC is Gundam Unicorn and your post isn't going to change that. You're about 8 years too late to this to try and change anything.
It was distinctly labelled as such as a "revival" of the Universal Century, so it was intentional for it to be abbreviated in the same manner. It's the first big new entry into UC since G-Saviour/Turn A if you want to count it, afterall, and before then V Gundam.
At any rate you won't be changing that UC refers to Unicorn and Universal Century.
>Too bad, Gundam UC is Gundam Unicorn and your post isn't going to change that.
I don't have to change what has not yet come to pass.
Also, do you not see the issue that can arise in a conversation if the meaning "UC" is confused with another?
Obviously having our own fan abbreviations is a logical step?
>Are NewTypes deprecated? Can we finally move away from that hocus pocus nonsense?
Actually, Newtypes have gone up in value. Governments everywhere will want to "culturally enrich" their nation by forcing Newtype political leaders on them, despite the wants of the people.
You will see a downswing in the amount of combat Newtypes, and an upswing in Newtype mind hax politicos.
Newtypes will divide down the center X-Men/Brotherhood of Mutants style over who is destined to rule humanity.
A new faction of space nazis decides to holocaust any and all newtypes.
Guilt over this action forces the new United Space Federation to create Israe....er, Newtype Only Colony. Newtype Only colony commits atrocities and infiltrates allies governments with spies, and essentially bites the hands that feed in order to bring about some crazy space tower of babel prophecy.
If you don't like Newtype shenanigans then watch some other fucking series. You faggots who tout 08th MS, 0080 and Turn A as amazing because they're not like typical Gundam shows are cancer.
Military drama along with space fights, Newtype powers IS the Universal Century.
Typical Gundam show = formulaic and mediocre.
Are you going to defend SEED, because it's basically the paragon of typical Gundam. People like 0080 and Turn A because they're actually good.
>I don't like newtypes
Literally the core plot of the UC series. If you don't like newtypes, then you don't like Gundam. What you like is the designs, so just stop trying to defend the 'non-newtype' shows because there are none. It's quite acceptable to go 'Oh I don't really like Gundam, but the designs are cool'
Every single UC series has newtypes. If they aren't a protagonist, they're a plot device. Even 0083 is about newtypes, because Gato is unwittingly fighting for 'True freedom for spacenoids' which happens to be the UC charter, which is about newtypes.
All of those are about newtypes though
>08th, newtype mobile armor,
>0080 people fighting over a newtype specialized gundam.
>Turn A, a bunch of newtypes never explicitly called newtypes, but that's exactly what they are
If U.C has taught its anything, it's that is really really hard to get rid of space nazis. Just when you kill one nest, another springs up, and then sometimes you make an elite fighting force to combat the space nazis, and before you know it they've become space nazis themselves...
And then its 40 years later, and you got to mars for a picnic and there's some goddamn space nazis there, and then you go to jupiter, and someones created a space nazi empire there, and then you travel to a different dimension, and there's an entire race of space nazis there.
It never ends...
>Hocus pocus nonsense
>Series about giant robot shaped like a samurai
Also 08th is easily the most bullshit magic Gundam series. Just cause the OP shows sand in the joints doesn't mean the whole Romeo and Juliet in space except on earth thing wasn't contrived and ridiculous.
Wrong. There's a lot going on in UC that I like. The setting as a whole, the factions, a lot of the characters, the lack of warp drive shennanigans and events generally being local to earth space. But Newtypes are fucking awful, I can't stand them. They started off merely annoying and get progressively more retarded as he franchise went on. Unicorn really just marked an inevitable endgame for the concept. Yeah, magical space psychics can block a giant colony sized doom laser. Sure, why not. At that point I just throw up my hands and say "fine. It's fucking stupid, but just...fine. Whatever."
What's most hilarious is that for supposedly being the 'core plot' of UC Gundam stories you could literally excise Newtypes altogether and most things wouldn't change. OYW could still happen, Neo-Zeon movements, Cosmo Babylonia and so on. In fact that seems to be one of Tomino's points, that Newtypes bringing a new age of human understanding and peace is pure bullshit and individuals are largely powerless against the inertia of institutions.
>What's most hilarious is that for supposedly being the 'core plot' of UC Gundam stories you could literally excise Newtypes altogether and most things wouldn't change.
What? EVERYTHING would change. Newtypes play a big role in Deikun's ideology that was perverted into what Zeon became. They're the main source of fear that the Federation has regarding spacenoids, and a huge driving force behind the events leading up to and during Zeta, particularly the formation of the Titans (if you think it's because of Operation Stardust, you're retarded and didn't pay attention to 0083.)
Thematically speaking, they're an fictional interpretation of a change in human consciousness brought on by adapting to a new environment, and an allegory for the potential of youth as well as the older generation's rejection and distrust of the emerging generation, which is basically the overarching story of UC Gundam in general. UC Gundam is simply not UC Gundam without newtypes. Taking them out would require a MASSIVE rewrite of the lore, not to mention remove the heart and soul of the setting..
Newtypes are pretty much the main driving force of early Universal Century, with Unicorn concluding the Newtype story arc.
Face it; you don't like the setting, you like the aesthetic, feel, and characters that the setting brings with it, which is perfectly fine. I like the Macross aesthetic and feel, but I dislike the pop music, but you won't see me going around talking about how it'd be better off without Minmay or whatever. Saying that Gundam would be better without newtypes is the same kind of pedantic drivel as the notion hat Star Wars would be better off without Jedis. Both are core parts of their respective franchises, and are instrumental to the story. Sure, you can write stories without either, and those stories can turn out great, but that doesn't mean they are disposable.
>EVERYTHING would change.
>Newtypes play a big role in Deikun's ideology that was perverted into what Zeon became.
Deikun had not a slightest idea of Newtypes. Gihren explicitly didn't believe what he preached to motivate his soldiers.
>They're the main source of fear that the Federation has regarding spacenoids
Utter bullshit. The Federation only displays any sort of fear regarding spacenoids in Z, and the source of that is the fact that Zeon fucking killed half of humanity (oh, and if you seriously bring Char's words as a proof of anytning, you're stupider than Garma, who at least had no chance to see what a manipulative and lying faggot Char is). By late UC Federation even shifts its center to space.
>Newtypes are pretty much the main driving force of early Universal Century,
And yet every single conflict can work fine, with most playing exactly as they had played, without newtype powers at all.
>with Unicorn concluding the Newtype story arc.
Unicorn is a meaningless addition concerned with a meaningless conflict, that even Unicorn itself admits to be meaningless. It does nothing that CCA didn't do, and changes fuck-all.
But 0083 and 08th MS team are the worst UC series.
One can't even keep its retarded technology in check for a few seconds while pretending it's a military show yet constantly fucks up everything related to the military at every chance.
The other is a fucking romeo and juliet pretending to be band of brothers.
The hilarity of all this is the further away from newtypes a UC series gets the worse it gets. It's like they're playing a game of keep away from the elephant in the room and desperately trying to fill that hole in with something else yet failing to do so and producing something even dumber than newtypes in the process.
Newtypes will always represent a new generation of youth and ideology, and society treating them as a new way to continue old sins. So, not really. Basically, no one cares about what the youth actually want until they are bitter old men just like the previous generation, and that is literally how society is set up. And, why it takes so long to actually address some of the issues that would actually have meaning to that generation.
Why did they go through Four's story arc, "kill" her off, bring her back and go through the same story arc again, actually kill her off, then replace her with an identical character who goes through almost identical development?
In this thread I keep seeing
>0083 and 08th MS team are bad
0080 I can understand...because after like the first few minutes it's boring as fuck.
But those two? Is this the result of recoiling against popularity, as with everything else on 4chan? I just don't get it.
0083 had a story other than:
"I'M KOU AND I'VE GOTTA STOP GATO!'
"FUCK YOU BOY, I'M THE NIGHTMARE OF SOLOMON!"
The overwhelming strength of it's animation and mecha designs far outweighs anything else about it.
>0080 I can understand...because after like the first few minutes it's boring as fuck.
Wut? But you can't understand why 0083 and 08th MS are seen as bad ... Shows with glaring flaws. Shit taste detected.
I want to see a show deal with Newtypes as they were actually intended.
Not as ace pilots, not as space Jedi, but just as people who UNDERSTAND each other and avoid the destructive things humans traditionally do.
>if they're using Origin levels of CGI for sentinel
At this point I'm willing to accept CG if it means good stuff gets animated. I'd rather it wasn't done, but if it is they should go for the Buddy Complex team.
>Deikun had not a slightest idea of Newtypes. Gihren explicitly didn't believe what he preached to motivate his soldiers.
He coined the term! The fact that Gihren didn't believe in what he preached is irrelevant; he perverted Deikun's ideology to establish a sense of spacenoid superiority that served his purposes.
>Utter bullshit. The Federation only displays any sort of fear regarding spacenoids in Z, and the source of that is the fact that Zeon fucking killed half of humanity
Really? Because they seem pretty stoked to work with them throughout the entirety of Z, and even ZZ. Even in 0083, the Federation higher ups are literally letting Operation Stardust happen so they can form the Titans. At best, past the OYW, the Federation pretty much consistently sees Zeon as a means to an end. The Federation politicians don't give two shits about Zeon; the only thing they care about is maintaining their control over the colonies, or at the very least, maintaining their comfortable lifestyles. Past the first few episodes of Zeta, Zeon is barely mentioned by anyone until Axis arrives, at which point everyone wants to work with them.
If there's one good thing that came out of Unicorn, it's the implication that the Federation allows Zeon remnants to lurk about specifically because they're a good boogie man for them to build up in the interest of maintaining their military presence and development. It's the only way I can justify the fact that any Zeon remnants exist at ALL beyond the year 0080.
>And yet every single conflict can work fine, with most playing exactly as they had played, without newtype powers at all.
If you were talking about Late UC, I'd agree with you. Alas, the source of a lot of the conflict in 0079-0096 can be traced back to newtypes and their relationship with the setting. CCA is especially reliant on the Char's dream of turning everyone into newtypes, even if his real reasons behind everything is his mid-life crisis and feud with Amuro.
> Utter bullshit. The Federation only displays any sort of fear regarding spacenoids in Z, and the source of that is the fact that Zeon fucking killed half of humanity
Go rewatch Zeta idiot, Amuro is under house arrest for being a dangerous Newtype, Bask, and the Titans are explictly stated to be afraid of Newtypes becoming a ruling class.
Not wanting her to be there, but realising fans really, really, really liked Four.
tbh I think Mouar got it a lot worse with poor direction. She had potential to become an interesting character and flesh out an otherwise laughable rival character (Jerid), but instead she's just killed off. There isn't even a mention of her for any other point in the series.
The writers probably didn't like Four as a character, and might have hoped to create a different love interest for Kamille. But the reception to Four was definitely positive (bringing her back only to have to KILL her to get her out of the series shows this), thereby preventing the script from evolving how they wanted it.
Cyber-Newtypes were introduced in Zeta, which definitely added to Four's allure as a character. She's the first of her generation and a walking catastrophe. Like a lot of Tomino's female characters Four could be considered metaFourrical for first loves, the indefinable feeling of it, and especially the sorrow of its failure. But the target audience clearly didn't care (after all, they're Japanese schoolkids) and just wanted to see a lunatic murder things.
Newtypes are just weapons as far as their effect in UC goes. I'm with that other anon, while they have become a recurring element of UC, the stories can perfectly work without newtypes.
Amuro helped to win the OYW not for being a newtype but for being Amuro, Char dropped Axis not because newtype ghost dreams but because he was fed up with things and how absolutely nothing changed despite his actions in Zeta gundam, etc. Newtypes are important first for being the person that they are and a product of their circumstances, and only in a distant second place for being newtypes.
>0083/08th MS Team
>posting picture from ZZ
Whatever you say, kiddo. Let's see your professional anime criticism. Please enlighten us as to why those two are the 'worst' and not the garbage you posted.
Not sure about Zeta but 0083 is objectively the best anime
0083 is better than Zeta so your taste is probably shit
>liking ZZ more than 0083
You might want to go to a doctor and get your brain checked out
>People rabidly defend them as "essential to the themes of UC"
The themes of UC are about the potential of the younger generation and the older generation's fear and exploitation of that potential. Newtypes are a direct allegory to the potential of the new generation.
There's nothing to defend; you take away newtypes, and you take away the core theme of UC. That's why a lot of the times series like 08th, 0083, or many sidestory mangas, while entertaining, feel somewhat souless. 0080 is the only non-newtype story that managed to fill the void, and while it's theme wasn't original in the slightest, it was at least well executed.
>yet they're just used as lazy excuses to advance the plot.
They're what the plot often centers around, it'd be silly if they weren't used to advance the plot.
Turn A doesn't have any newtypes (source: MG Turn X manual), yet it explores the themes of generational progression and pacifism better than any UC Gundam title. Ergo, newtypes are just plot devices that have little bearing on the franchise's philosophy.
Turn-A doesn't actually explore generational progression though, not in the sense that UC shows do. UC is about one generation to the next, direct one. Turn-A only really explores deep time style generations.
None of them are 'good' by any real measure, but for very different reasons. Both 0083 and 08th are pretty okay up until 'those scenes', and apparently the bizarre plot changes are the result of production problems in both of them. ZZ is just schizo as hell, especially early on when it's full of weird comedy that doesn't really work and is jarringly different in tone from the show immediately preceding it. Many people feel once it settles down a bit it delivers several quite strong story arcs, but ultimately the show feels unsatisfying, especially with the Glemy asspull twist.
Pretty much all Gundam productions have major problems though, even 0080 (which for me is the only time the ostensible anti-war message of the franchise has ever actually been pulled off properly and been emotionally effective) is too long and meanders around at points.
>EVERYTHING would change.
No, it really wouldn't. All you'd have to do is replace Deikun having a theory about magical space people with him being a radical campaigning for spacenoid independence, after that everything falls into place more or less the same. Zabi's assassinate him and hijack his legacy, OYW happens, and the echoes of that war last for decades and lead to further conflicts. I never got the impression that Newtypes were a driving force behind any of the wars in Gundam, up until Unicorn at any rate. Newtypes are involved but they're never the actual reason why earth and space are in conflict. Again this actually seems to have been one of Tomino's points. There's a lot of talk about Newtypes having true mutual understanding that will lead to an end to conflict, but that never happens. Time and time again the idealism runs up against geopolitical reality. 'Irresponsible adults' always waging their wars and playing power politics, and the psychic kids caught in the middle.
>0083 is better than Zeta so your taste is probably shit
>Music is just a plot device. People rabidly defend it as "essential to the themes of Macross", yet it's just used as a lazy excuse to advance the plot with an insert song.
>Jedis are just a plot device. People rabidly defend them as "essential to the themes of Star Wars, yet they're just used lazy excuses to advance the plot with pseudo-magic and dark vs light imagery.
Just because a setting can technically work without a factor that plays a huge role in it, doesn't mean that it should, or that it would be better off without said factor.
Besides, there is a Gundam universe for people that dislike newtypes and newtype shenanigans. Multiple ones, in fact, and they aren't all bad. Why not give one of them a try instead of insisting that UC change to suit your tastes? I thought Wing was pretty good and it doesn't rely on newtypes or newtype proxies at all. X was pretty neat, too. UC, though, is fine with newtypes.
You act like people don't say the stuff in your green text. It's, sadly, not exactly an uncommon opinion for some people to say "Fantasy in sci fi is objectively bad."
Because Macross insert songs and Star Wars Jedi powers are fun. In contrast, Gundam just uses newtypism as an excuse for obnoxious, emo teenage characters and inter-cockpit yelling matches during battle.
People absolutely say it, I'm not saying they're not. I've even been guilty of it myself in my teenage years.
I'm saying that the people claiming newtypes are a disposable part of the UC setting are on the same level as those people.
Their pretty central to the plot, they only become unimportant if you look at Gundam from the perspective of data books, and supplementary material, rather then the shows, which, sadly, seems to be a majority of /m/.
>Just because a setting can technically work without a factor that plays a huge role in it, doesn't mean that it should, or that it would be better off without said factor.
In principle I would agree, but do people actually like Newtypes that much? Taking this board as an example, Gundam is talked about constantly but I don't see much discussion specifically about Newtypes. We talk about obscure suits and the games and whether Origins alterations are good or bad and all kinds of things. But never much about Newtypes and whether they were a compelling plot element or if they raised interesting philosophical questions or anything like that.
As for the greentext examples, music actually is integral to Macross, every installment revolves around a different variation on its power, and a lot of people view Jedi as kind of terrible. Certainly in the prequel era where Lucas seems to have inadvertently made them a bunch of self-appointed guardians of the galaxy who regularly do douchey things. So wait, the guys who built a literal slave army are supposed to be the good guys? Ahahaha, okay George.
>Gundam just uses newtypism as an excuse for obnoxious, emo teenage characters and inter-cockpit yelling matches during battle.
...and funnels, (and lately funnel hijacking,) and cockpit systems designed to interface with the pilot's brain, and psycoframe shenanigans (in during "muh realism",) a lot of other cool newtype weaponry.
Newtypes have their fair share of cool shenanigans, too; don't sell them short.
> I'm saying that the people claiming newtypes are a disposable part of the UC setting are on the same level as those people.
But they totally are.
>Are NewTypes deprecated? Can we finally move away from that hocus pocus nonsense?
OP is an oldtype and a faggot
>You want a series like the two of the worst UC entries?
You're a faggot as well
> In principle I would agree, but do people actually like Newtypes that much? Taking this board as an example, Gundam is talked about constantly but I don't see much discussion specifically about Newtypes. We talk about obscure suits and the games and whether Origins alterations are good or bad and all kinds of things. But never much about Newtypes and whether they were a compelling plot element or if they raised interesting philosophical questions or anything like that.
It's because /m/ talks about Gundam without talking about Gundam, if you catch what I mean.
They talk about the mechs, the games, and the back ground notes, but we very rarely talk about the actual story of the shows, aside from trolling about ZZ, and CCA.
As somebody who watched Gundam, Zeta and CCA, I would say that only in CCA newtypes were very central to the plot, namely for the Axis shock which I don't really see any way to make it possible without the power of a psychoframe.
Otherwise, both original gundam and Zeta can do without newtypes, the only missing thing would be the newtype resonance moments, which while important for certain character-specific moments, didn't exactly impact in the history of the universal century or even the ultimate outcome of the wars said newtypes got involved into.
Char's entire character development from the time he meets Lahla, untill his final appearance is entirely motivated by his ideals on Newtypes, and Char's character development has a huge impact on the setting, not to mention, ya know, how Kamille defeated Scirocco.
Also, how is something that heavily effects the development of all the main characters NOT important to the plot ?
Given the monumental success of gunpla and the constant stream of video games, I gather that the Japanese fanbase also spends more time wanking to mobile suits than discussing Newtypes. Clearly this isn't what Tomino wanted, but tough shit bro. So either the majority of the fanbase is doing it wrong, or Newtypes just aren't that interesting.
> So either the majority of the fanbase is doing it wrong, or Newtypes just aren't that interesting.
It's not just Newtypes, it's the whole shows. We don't talk about the characters, aside from "What happened with Char from Zeta, to CCA", we don't talk about the factions, aside from calling people faggots for liking the ones we don't, /m/ doesn't talk about the shows very much at all.
Not him, but yes. You ever think your reasons for liking Gundam are kind of superficial?
Not that such a mentality is a problem; I think Macross anime is shit but I love the variable fighters and Itano's dogfight choreography.
>You ever think your reasons for liking Gundam are kind of superficial?
Sure. I don't think Gundam anime has any substance of value, but I have a lot of fun building and painting the kits. That might just be my shitty opinions talking though.
He could've clinged to the ideals of his father without being a newtype himself and simply believe that Lalah was a special person that embodied the ideal spacenoid of his father's theories without having Lalah as a newtype. Remember, all the things his father said were vague enough that didn't exactly talk about newtypes.
Unlike Axis Shock, it is very possible for Kamille to defeat Scirocco in a normal battle without newtype shenanigans going on.
That's an idiotic assumption, their is no correlation between buying Gundam merch, and not liking Newtypes.
Seeing as how based on the existence the setting, and factions are, the Newtypes aren't a taint, they make the setting.
>mfw I just realized /m/ is basically MAHQ
He only meets Lahla because she was the strongest Newtype the Flannigan Institute found, so she was chosen to pilot the Elmeth.
Do you really think the suggestions you just made would be an improvement though ?
But its not the same story arc.
Char wasn't there the first time.
>So wait, the guys who built a literal slave army are supposed to be the good guys? Ahahaha, okay George.
The Jedi didn't make it, but, I don't think it was any less moral then a draft.
>want to like 0083
>Kou and the romance plot in general ruins what could have been a cool idea