I am convinced that Poe is the best writer to come out of the United States. The sentiment which he implements is similar to what is seen within the Russians and the effect he produces is no less profound than what the works of Kafka are capable of. The extensive vocabulary he seems to have such a mastery over is used in a way that I have not seen and it colors his works so to read them and compare them to those of other Americans is like to look at a painting and compare it with a rough doodle. Why is it that you guys extol the likes of Faulkner and Pychon but say nothing of Poe who, I repeat, I consider to be the pinnacle of American literature?
Tales, although that is not to say I am not fond of his poetry.
It's my sincere opinion; I have read both and have come to this. Faulkner, despite his works being much longer and as a result, with the potential to affect to a greater degree, feels shallow to me and what Poe was able to convey through a short story Faulkner couldn't do in his novels, that is a sense of sentiment that cannot be criticized as disingenuous.
Not Faulkner, or Twain, but Poe? I'm being rused and I know it but none the less, let's have at it.
really? He's worth mentioning above Steinbeck or Vidal or anyone else? Did you only read the postmodernists and one Gothic Romantic from the tail end of the movement? This board perplexes me with its narrow range.
>seen within the Russians
jesus, you were closer with Kafka, the main criticism of his style was that his stories were German not in any way Russian. The comparison you're looking for is probably ETA Hoffmann however, not Kafka.
Compared to what? The Monk? The romantics who preceded him also? Dickens? He wrote in the style of the time, with the vocabulary of the time, and he's certainly not as inventive or dexterous as Faulkner or Pynchon. I say this not even as a Pynchon fan. Compared to Gothic works that preceded him, he's practically retarded for the genre.
>to look at a painting and compare it with a rough doodle
Half the joy of Poe is that he was a doodler and drop out and well aware of the flaws in his stories compared to those preceding him, and so approached them without pretense, and with a self awareness he was writing genre fiction as a pale imitation of previous European styles.
In mentioning Pynchon and Faulkner it was only because these are the American authors I see most often mentioned--I could have said Wallace but I am convinced that no man on this board sincerely believes him to be a good and significant author. I relate him to the Russians for the sincere expression that I see in his characters, a quality I have found in the Russians more than anywhere else.
Your opinion obviously differs, but I suppose it comes down to what one wants from a piece. Poe's works are of a prose that is more captivating, with characters that are more interesting, and he explores aspects of men that are by today's standards would be regarded as mental illnesses (see Berenice, Imp of the Perverse, The Black Cat). It is a fascination in the psychology of men that makes him no less attractive to me than those whose writing centers on the individual as opposed to what extends beyond him.
I think you just sort of lack backing to compare him to other works. If you're going to compare him to a Russian, at least make it Chekhov, so he can get some praise for how he loads inevitabilities into the situation.
Dostoevsky's a hack who emulated a lot of the same people but also a lot of people that Poe wouldn't agree with.
Poe doesn't have Dostoevsky's moral bent, and probably the places where he's most comparable are where Dostoevsky's re-writing Gogol re-writing Hoffmann, like Poe re-wrote Hoffman, in that they both wrote more pulpy versions of tales that had been already told. They've a similar practice in that they were both copyists, but that doesn't make them similar outside of copying from the same sources at times.
Both are kind of hacks, but Poe really doesn't have the sense of purpose that Dostoevsky tries to give to his books, but more of a shit happens approach.
Not really. I mean, they both write fairy tale-ish things, but Pushkin is again aiming at different things, and has beautiful soothing prose. A better comparison from the Romantics for Pushkin would be HC Andersen, whose works are somewhere between Pushkin and Poe because he was in love with Dickens and still both Pushkin and Andersen have better prose than Dickens or Poe.
Both Dickens and Poe show the type of publication they were working for in their style, and no Russian style is really to be found in them, but regurgitated Germans.
I think you're just a fan of the gothic, rather than evaluating his prose in comparison to people writing at the time or previous to him, because his vocab and prose really aren't that great even within the Gothic or Romantic eras. They're accessible but not outstanding. You might quite like the other authors mentioned, but please don't cite them as being "just like the Americans" because I think your brain might make such weak connections based on how you write about Poe.
>the American authors I see most often mentioned
yup. Lack of exposure to literature except through /lit/ confirmed. Go read the European Gothics and the German Expressionists too. You'll like them. /lit/ isn't a good basis for American authors because half these dicks can't think of an author other than DFW who isn't a good author any how.
ugh. you say that they both copy ETA Hoffman and yet they're not similar? fuck off with that nonsense. I'm not OP. i merely suggested that there were similarities. They're obviously not the same. They're similar though, clearly. Also, for the record, Dickens was incredibly beloved by Dostoevsky, and drawing similarities between Dickens and Poe in any way continues to draw similarities with the Russians. Quit bein a little bitch, bub.
You're right, it seems as though you've read more than I have and I am not such a savage as to fail to ask for recommendations from someone who has gone beyond the works found mentioned here. Can you recommend specific works; it is difficult to decide on a piece when I only have the author to go by.
I'm saying they're similarly copyists, and both are German in style when they do copy Germans. They're not what defines them as American or Russian authors, but German influenced writers. Saying that Dostoevsky is being very Russian when he's deliberately copying German writing is stupid.
I drew a similarity between Andersen's style and Dickens'. The only comparison between Dickens and Poe is that they both reflect the type of publications they wrote for; Dickens reflects the newspaper style of England at the time, which is different to reflecting the magazine style of America. No wonder you thought Poe had good vocab; there's a low bar on reading comprehension here.
>no wonder you thought Poe had good vocab
funny that you would talk shit on reading comprehension, yet simultaneously fail at it yourself. I told you i'm not OP. as i said before, quit bein a little bitch.
Try The Monk, by Lewis, because it's the inception of most Gothic styles.
All of Hoffmann's stories are good, but the Sandman is probably the best known. You might also like Theophile Gautier's short stories, because he does similarly eerie things.
Andersen's fairy tales are deeply fucked up if you want Pushkin level prose combined with Poe's level of horror.
Jahnn, Kokoshka, and Wedekind are kind of more adult viewing versions of the same tone, and you might enjoy their work if don't think them too lurid. Not many of Jahnn's works are translated iirc, but Wedekind's got a few short stories in English now definitely, and Kokoshka's Dreaming Youths I'm reasonably sure has been translated to that title.
I think Lewis is the only novel in this bunch you'll find in English, so it shouldn't be too much of a switch up from Poe.
It's the same retard who's been shitposting this in every thread today. But anyway, Poe is middle school-tier. I like a couple of his stories like The System of Dr. Tarr and Professor Fether and Never Bet the Devil Your Head, but other than that there's nothing great about anything he wrote.
I really appreciate it, I will read The Monk next if I can find it. I'm curious as to who you would consider the best American author. That Poe derived his influence from great men, and influence that inspired some of the greatest works of literature from others parts of the world (to say Poe and Dostoevsky were inspired by the same guy suggests a similarity that I understand if only for my admiration of the latter as well), only further strengthens my claim. Naturally all writers will find inspiration in what preceded them so it is not enough, I think, to cast him from that pedestal of greatest American writer in my mind simply by saying he imitated those before him. Is absolute originality necessary for whoever is to be regarded as the best or is it not important that the best is influenced by great men before him? If I understand you correctly than it would be no different than to deprecate the greatness of Beethoven by saying he was influenced by Mozart, which is of course nonsense.
>No wonder you thought Poe had good vocab; there's a low bar on reading comprehension here.
>No wonder you thought Poe had good vocab; there's a low bar on reading comprehension here.
implying that i'm the one who claimed that Poe has a good vocabulary, when in the post that you're responding to, there is quite plainly written
> I'm not OP.
you still seem to have poor reading comprehension, in spite of all your pretension.
My personal favourite of the Americans is Brautigan. He's not what most people think of first when you say American writers, and he's kind of a weeb any how.
I like Steinbeck, hate Hemingway, and tend more towards the postmodernists like Faulkner and Vidal than to the Pynchon and Wallace fan club we have here, or the Vonnegut fan club you could find elsewhere in the genre. I'd prefer Vonnegut to Pynchon or Wallace, if I'm being very honest.
The problem with standing on the shoulders of giants is that I don't think Poe lives up to his predecessors. I like him, and I'd read him before I'd read some of his descendants, but greatest American author is pushing it too much for me.
I think because Steinbeck and Hemingway divide so many people it would be more reasonable to say they're the two great American authors and split people's taste like that, because then it's easier to recommend a path for them to follow down. It's not ideal, since I wouldn't call either the greatest, but it does define tastes better. Twain or even Mencken and Bierce could be considered greater writers, but they don't have the influence that Hemingway and Steinbeck, or even Poe, managed to form because they're harder acts to follow. The bitter comedy in Bierce, Twain and Mencken I think is more reflective of American writing than Poe still, even if it hasn't got to that heights again.
Unfortunately for Poe, a lot of his descendants aren't that great and are more inconsistent than he is, otherwise I wouldn't be referring you back to Europe for good Gothic/Romance and darkness.
And again that refuted none of my points about literary influence, and doesn't really contribute to anything about American writing. If you're really that concerned I'm mistaking you for OP still, get a trip.
Melville has a good case. Gaddis, not so much.
Sure. He invented genres and codified them and if the garbage tales of Hawthorne and corncob Twain are "classics" of Amerifat literature, I don't see why Poe shouldn't be. American literature is complete trash until modernism.