What does /lit/ think of Bukowski?

>>7661420
degenerate liberal cuck

they are upset by him. they cannot get the vision of chuck squatting over their waifu's mouth and squeezing a semisoft shit from his craggy hair pie.

>>7661428
Hey man, that's not even a real criticism

An honest man

Damn, like five more niggas asked this same shit during the last 7 days. Bukowski is mediocre at his best. only faggots who idealize le bohemian life XD like him, and the only reason they will say is some dunb shit like "haha nigga took literature down from it's ivory tower, nigga portraits low life, nigga is the absolut nihilist"; shit is as meaningless as voting Obama cuz he was black. Bitch niggas care more about the character Bukowski was IRL than about his literature. When a nigga only writes about himself, he better have an interesting life or his ouvre will be boring as fuck. And if I see another fag asking about that mediocre swindler Imma fucking beat their ass. I'm not playing no more.

Murderer

His novels aren't very good. His writing is fun at first, but is tiresome when you realize there are only so many ways of telling the reader "I got drunk as shit and drank til 4 am and had to get to work but was late WHO GIVES A FUCK"
Enjoy some of his poetry but I like kinda talky simple poetry. My favorite poet is Frank O'Hara, call me a pleb if you'd like.

I think dinosauria, we is like greatest poem ever

>>7661588

Born like this
Into this
As the chalk faces smile
As Mrs. Death laughs
As the elevators break
As political landscapes dissolve
As the supermarket bag boy holds a college degree
As the oily fish spit out their oily prey
As the sun is masked
We are
Born like this
Into this
Into these carefully mad wars
Into the sight of broken factory windows of emptiness
Into bars where people no longer speak to each other
Into fist fights that end as shootings and knifings
Born into this
Into hospitals which are so expensive that it's cheaper to die
Into lawyers who charge so much it's cheaper to plead guilty
Into a country where the jails are full and the madhouses closed
Into a place where the masses elevate fools into rich heroes
Born into this
Walking and living through this
Dying because of this
Muted because of this
Castrated
Debauched
Disinherited
Because of this
Fooled by this
Used by this
Pissed on by this
Made crazy and sick by this
Made violent
Made inhuman
By this
The heart is blackened
The fingers reach for the throat
The gun
The knife
The bomb
The fingers reach toward an unresponsive god
The fingers reach for the bottle
The pill
The powder
We are born into this sorrowful deadliness
We are born into a government 60 years in debt
That soon will be unable to even pay the interest on that debt
And the banks will burn
Money will be useless
There will be open and unpunished murder in the streets
It will be guns and roving mobs
Land will be useless
Food will become a diminishing return
Nuclear power will be taken over by the many
Explosions will continually shake the earth
Radiated robot men will stalk each other
The rich and the chosen will watch from space platforms
Dante's Inferno will be made to look like a children's playground
The sun will not be seen and it will always be night
Trees will die
All vegetation will die
Radiated men will eat the flesh of radiated men
The sea will be poisoned
The lakes and rivers will vanish
Rain will be the new gold
The rotting bodies of men and animals will stink in the dark wind
The last few survivors will be overtaken by new and hideous diseases
And the space platforms will be destroyed by attrition
The petering out of supplies
The natural effect of general decay
And there will be the most beautiful silence never heard
Born out of that.
The sun still hidden there
Awaiting the next chapter.

>>7661555
>>7661563
this desu

>>7661420
Hack
>>7661563
O'Hara is great

One trick pony with a pretty good trick

I woke up and wiped my ass with a shoe. I hit reply on a Bukowski thread and Jan wants to fuck. I smoke and she drinks some port wine and I realize that I forgot to hit the "reply" button so I hit it. I also realize I was supposed to be at work. "A job's a job," I say as Jan grabs my balls for round two.

>>7661420
He's basically an edgy version of a YA author. Which is what accounts for his popularity among nearly illiterate 20 somethings.

>>7661602
Nice.
What collection is this from?

>>7661420
Not popular.
1) /lit/ is, on average, too young. They're still at the Alice in Wonderland stage, fascinated with academia, they read David Faggot Wallace ranting about modal logic, dreaming of one day becoming college Professors in the only field of life they know, academia (4chan, => college Prof... nah, not likely, guys...)
2) Though /lit/ is not /pol/, the core of 4chan is strongly biased towards the right-wing. Bukowski is the son of a crazy violent father, heavily bigoted, obsessive and compulsive. Through his writing, Bukowski is trying to escape this. Though he finds the hippies a bit too sweet, he'd rather hang with a hippie than an obsessive compulsive wacko. /lit/ can't deal with this, if someone is not a raging hater, racist, individualist, loner, making 100k a month in IT or academia, then his writing is worthless.

I've never read good criticism of Bukowski here, but you'll have disapproving grunts like >>7661428, and people eternally quoting the same few lines about puking or sodomy.
t.bh, I'm not an alcoholic, not a big fan of sodomy. This is like 5% of a Bukowski book (often 0%). (the most sex is probably in Women, but it's on topic)

But Bukowski is not pretentious. Remember that the same people here who say Bukowki is crap, regularly elect "Infinite Jest" as their favorite book ever (no story, pretentious ramblings for 1400 pages, rants about nail clipping thrown in a basket and other pointless rubbish...), but at least it's pretentious and looks good on a top5 list.

>>7661635

What's a good o'hara book? I bought 'Lunch Poetry' from local store and it's kinda nifty but I wouldn't call it 'great'.

>>7661772
i hate both bukowski and dfw dont worry

also lmao @ your life if you think the dfw fanboy and bukowski fanboy demographics dont have huge overlap

>>7661772
you seem to put a lot of thought in to why internet strangers disagree with your taste. here have an upvote.

I can't wait for you to deconstruct my reply

>>7661639
This is hilarious lol

>>7661772
I'dk If it's originally from some other collection but I have pleasures of the damned and it's thick and has a lot of great shit in it.

People that look to bo Patricians dislike him. So you'll never find a good opinion here. I enjoy his books. His short stories are better than his novels, that's me.

I've only read Factotum. It wasn't anything special. I don't understand how this guy made a living writing books or how he convinced anyone to publish him. At the same time, I kind of liked it and thought that certain parts were clever.

Someone posted a link to this reading of one of his poems and I thought it was excellent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlm8VjLQkj0

I'm tempted to check out his poems but I never really read poetry because I don't understand poetry.

OP, he's a good entry level poet who has a schtick and executes it very well.

A lot of people, not all by any means but a lot, who read him in college because of his edgy tendencies do end up graduating to better poetry.

I don't know why /lit/ has to make him out to be more complicated than what he is.

Just read Post Office. It's his best one and you'll basically know all you have to know about afterwards.

>>7662582
I think a lot of his poetry is really good for people who don't like or "get" poetry. Factotum is definitely not one of his strongest books. I think Ham on Rye is one of his best, and then his short stories are also good. Tales of ordinary madness is a great read.

>>7661773
The thing I love about O'Hara is that he's very fun and sincere. I know that sounds cliche and I think new sincerity is bullshir, but overall I abou fun and sincere poems and o'hara I think is masterful at that.

>>7661638
fuckin' this.

>>7662842
I'm shitnfaced so I apologize for the errors friendo

>>7662851
Also
Cornkind is my favorite poem which is in lunch poems.

>>7661772
>uses pretentious as a criticism
>bitches that /lit/ lit talks more about a more relevant and recent author
>conflates talk with universal praise
>muh lyfe experience
Bukowski is shit as a fiction writer because he appeals to teenagers who think the world revolves around them and their issues with mommy and daddy. Though with the continued infantilization of mainstream culture, his appeal has extended to manchildren who reject all complexity and nuance as pretentious because it's too hard for them to deal with.

>>7662862
Have you ever even read Bukowski? Because he would hate people like you described.

>swans die in the Spring too
>and there it floated
>dead on a Sunday
>sideways
'circling in current
>and I walked to the rotunda
>and overhead
>gods in chariots
>dogs, women
>circled,
>and death
>ran down my throat
>like a mouse,
>and I heard the people coming
>with their picnic bags
>and laughter,
>and I felt guilty
>for the swan
>as if death
>were a thing of shame
>and like a fool
>I walked away
>and left them
>my beautiful swan

He is worth reading but felt like the first time I disagreed with my parents somehow..

there is enough treachery, hatred violence absurdity in the average
human being to supply any given army on any given day

and the best at murder are those who preach against it
and the best at hate are those who preach love
and the best at war finally are those who preach peace

those who preach god, need god
those who preach peace do not have peace
those who preach peace do not have love

beware the preachers
beware the knowers
beware those who are always reading books
beware those who either detest poverty
or are proud of it
beware those quick to praise
for they need praise in return
beware those who are quick to censor
they are afraid of what they do not know
beware those who seek constant crowds for
they are nothing alone
beware the average man the average woman
beware their love, their love is average
seeks average

but there is genius in their hatred
there is enough genius in their hatred to kill you
to kill anybody
not wanting solitude
not understanding solitude
they will attempt to destroy anything
that differs from their own
not being able to create art
they will not understand art
they will consider their failure as creators
only as a failure of the world
not being able to love fully
they will believe your love incomplete
and then they will hate you
and their hatred will be perfect

like a shining diamond
like a knife
like a mountain
like a tiger
like hemlock

their finest art

>>7662906
In my book I think he puts LIKE A TIGER in all caps

i walk down the street at night in the rain
without an umbrella because i'm a man
to go to the liquor store to buy some liquor

i enter the store and there's a woman i want to fuck
i grab some liquor from the shelf and bring it up to the counter and buy it
"hello" i say to the woman on my way out "i want to drink this liquor with you."

we walk back to my apartment and i turn on the light and pour two glasses of liquor
and we drink liquor
and i fuck the woman and then tell her to leave
and then she throws the bottle onto my kitchen floor and leaves
so i go to bed and wake up in the morning for work and then i go to work at the post office because i'm a postman.

>>7662871
Too bad for him then, because they're his primary audience.

>>7662923
I don't see how you even can come to that conclusion. Any person I know who has even heard of him was either and English teacher or read his books in jail. Either way, I consider him one of my favorites. I'dk why I'm replying to your shitty bait.

>>7662921
you could write a whole book put of these mock poems and I'd laugh all the way through it.


a smile to remember

we had goldfish and they circled around and around
in the bowl on the table near the heavy drapes
covering the picture window and
my mother, always smiling, wanting us all
to be happy, told me, "be happy Henry!"
and she was right: it's better to be happy if you
can
but my father continued to beat her and me several times a week
while
raging inside his 6-foot-two frame because he couldn't
understand what was attacking him from within.

my mother, poor fish,
wanting to be happy, beaten two or three times a
week, telling me to be happy: "Henry,smile!
why don't you eversmile?"

and then she would smile, to show me how, and it was the
saddest smile I ever saw

one day the goldfish died, all five of them,
they floated on the water, on their sides, their
eyes still open,
and when my father got home he threw them to the cat
there on the kitchen floor and we watched as my mother
smiled

>>7662941

writer's block

my phone rang so i picked it up and said "Hello?"
it was my printer in Europe waiting for my new
book and how long until it was done?
"Okay" I said "It's done when it's done" and hung up

Pam had a party at my house
people drank my wine and laughed their dull laughs
the doorbell rang so i opened the door and said "Hello?"

it was a young poet, Pam's friend, a no-talent
and he brought his poems for me to read
and they were bad so I said "Hello?"

this poet wanted to fuck Pam but I fucked Pam
so I told the poet "There's no use in trying to talk about writing. Just write or don't"
and he nodded dumbly, not understanding
so I knocked on his head like I would on a door and said "Hello?"

>>7662935
Because it's true. He's a meme author read by teenagers, 20-30somethings with the sensibility of teenagers, and pseuds.

Go on literally any mainstream literature forum if you don't believe me.

>>7662961
What exactly is it with 4chan and the idea that everyone who likes something must be the same, or that you could even be smart enough to know? Like there are all of these little pseudo groups you fashion readers make up, when you're just as shit minded as the people you're describing and attaching to art and ruining for people who may be served well. Kill yourself.

>>7662958
never read this one before, Christ it's bad.

>>7662996
That isn't a real bukowski poem..

>>7663004
Oops, you're right, I googled "charles bukowski writer's block" and it came up with results, but turns out it's a different poem with the same name.

http://bibliomegan.com/2012/11/17/writers-block-by-charles-bukowski/

My bad.

>>7662979
It's pure autism, they love to make groups of people that are exactly the same.

>>7661772
>Being asking about Bukowski's ouvre
>"Well Bukowski was a rude alcoholic. Nigga really came from the bottom, you know. His dad this and that. Did you know he came from the bottom? Also 4chan doesn't like him because 4chan is dumb (David Faggot Wallace XD). Fuck's sake, I didn't understand shit of Infinite Jest. Pretentious. And it's soooo long XD"
Your post.

>>7662996
>>7663004

K E K

>>7663036
Having the oposite opinion to yours really makes me happy, I'd hate to agree with someone who makes a post as cancerous as yours.

>>7663078
>opinion
You don't seem to have any opinion on Bukowski's literature. You got opinions on everything else for what I read: David Faggot Wallace, 4chan users, Bukowski's family life, dumb people, academia teachers...
C'mon dude, you had one job. Why do you like Bukowski's ouvre?

Bukowski's good. He was more beat than the beats and more sincere than the New Sincerity.

I think he'll stand the test of time.

>>7661420
good, but overrated

>>7663193
I'm not that guy, just pointing out a shitty post.

>>7663252
I'm sorry pal

>>7662979
>what is hyperbole
>what is observing general trends

maybe you should kill yoruself

Just read Henry Miller instead
At least he doesn't pretend his head isn't full up his own ass

>>7661563
Liking simple poetry is not.my a bad thing. My favorite poet is Robert frost and compared to his peers at the time he was simple. But his subtlety and imagery make him a master of the form.

>>7661602

god this sucks

what the fuck it took him all of 10 minutes to vomit this out? half the poems on lit critique threads are better than this

>>7663792
Then you have a shit opinion on poetry.

>>7663795

it's not poetry it's lined thoughts oscillating between garbled attempts at profundity (via knee-jerk, unthought philosophy) and self-awareness ("i hope they don't notice i don't know what i'm doing. maybe this line will razzle and dazzle them")

>>7663802
>it's not poetry
>but it's poetry

You probably just don't get it. It wasn't like he was trying so very hard. I find his work really honest, unchanged for anything. He wasn't ever trying to dazzle, but I think he dazzles very well and without 150 subfoot notes, useless meandering.

>>7663830

you don't even read poetry do you?

>>7663830

>it's honest so it's good

top fucking kek retard

my nephew honestly screams he's pooped himself but that doesn't make him a musician now does it?

>>7663845
I have read a lot of Robert Frost and all of Ginsberg. There was a book I had read that featured two others besides bukowski and I enjoyed it. But I'm not an expert on poetry by any means.

Bukowski's work stuck out for me. A lot of other stuff seems so weak to me, I wish I knew of more poetry that I would enjoy.

>>7663862
That isn't what I was saying. You don't think that if something seems dishonest that it makes it kind of hardly worth reading?

>>7663866

>not an expert on poetry

no shit, you like Bukowski.

>I've read Frost, Ginsberg (and Bukowski)

Read Shakespeare, John Milton, Alexander Pope, Walt Whitman

Poetry is as difficult as it is rewarding, you must be prepared to spend time with it, to take it seriously, to simmer in the words, to read poetry regularly and start building a sense of it (not by reading criticism, just by reading poems)

you won't regret it. I don't have the skills as a writer necessary to communicate the divergence I perceive between this drivel and serious poetry. Good poetry stops you dead in your tracks. It doesn't coddle you with political or philosophical perspectives you already have. It awes you with extraordinary wisdom about being alive, and shows you artistic perfection you did not know existed.

>>7663792
Most respected contemporary poetry is this kind of garbage. Bukowski was writing Facebook "poetry" before Facebook was a thing.

>>7663891
I've read that whitman and bukowski are comparable? Are they not?

I also don't see how he isn't regarded high on here, where Hunter s Thompson is.


Even still, my high opinion of Bukowski won't change.

>>7663877
That's so fucking arbitrary. Art has no moral obligations. The only type of "honesty" that matters is whether an author actually wrote what they're claiming to have written or not.

>>7663906

http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/180738

>>7663881

this is actually good except for

>turn turn
>ow ow
>wild: my body...

>>7661428
especially when he beat his wife for wanting to sleep with other people lol

>>7663966
What's wrong with those parts?

>>7664131
they sound bad and do not fit the tone of the poem

>>7664279
Have you heard him read his poems? They really sound best when he reads them.

>>7664287

>you gotta hear the spoken word version, man, especially after you've had some wine and a good joint

He's absolutely shameless to read those in public. I would die of embarrassment.

>>7664310
I think he should have done more. Just try poems insults! And tell me it isn't entertaining and stimulating

>>7661555
Now I can say I've seen a meaningful criticism of Bukowski in pseudo-Ebonics

>>7662827
How do I into poetry? I've tried it so many times before but I just can't understand or appreciate it. School also made me hate poetry and even reading for a little while.

I never understand poems after I finish them. I never get what the author is trying to say. I don't understand the structure they use, especially when they use weird meters and unless the message is very obvious but also clever, they never leave me feeling much of anything except for feeling like a dumbo.

>>7662923

How is an author to be judged by his audience decades after his death? I'm sure Shakespeare would be aghast.

>>7661639
Beautiful

>>7661428
>liberal
muy kek

>>7663540
Frost's poems are deceptively dense