Damn, like five more niggas asked this same shit during the last 7 days. Bukowski is mediocre at his best. only faggots who idealize le bohemian life XD like him, and the only reason they will say is some dunb shit like "haha nigga took literature down from it's ivory tower, nigga portraits low life, nigga is the absolut nihilist"; shit is as meaningless as voting Obama cuz he was black. Bitch niggas care more about the character Bukowski was IRL than about his literature. When a nigga only writes about himself, he better have an interesting life or his ouvre will be boring as fuck. And if I see another fag asking about that mediocre swindler Imma fucking beat their ass. I'm not playing no more.
His novels aren't very good. His writing is fun at first, but is tiresome when you realize there are only so many ways of telling the reader "I got drunk as shit and drank til 4 am and had to get to work but was late WHO GIVES A FUCK" Enjoy some of his poetry but I like kinda talky simple poetry. My favorite poet is Frank O'Hara, call me a pleb if you'd like.
Born like this Into this As the chalk faces smile As Mrs. Death laughs As the elevators break As political landscapes dissolve As the supermarket bag boy holds a college degree As the oily fish spit out their oily prey As the sun is masked We are Born like this Into this Into these carefully mad wars Into the sight of broken factory windows of emptiness Into bars where people no longer speak to each other Into fist fights that end as shootings and knifings Born into this Into hospitals which are so expensive that it's cheaper to die Into lawyers who charge so much it's cheaper to plead guilty Into a country where the jails are full and the madhouses closed Into a place where the masses elevate fools into rich heroes Born into this Walking and living through this Dying because of this Muted because of this Castrated Debauched Disinherited Because of this Fooled by this Used by this Pissed on by this Made crazy and sick by this Made violent Made inhuman By this The heart is blackened The fingers reach for the throat The gun The knife The bomb The fingers reach toward an unresponsive god The fingers reach for the bottle The pill The powder We are born into this sorrowful deadliness We are born into a government 60 years in debt That soon will be unable to even pay the interest on that debt And the banks will burn Money will be useless There will be open and unpunished murder in the streets It will be guns and roving mobs Land will be useless Food will become a diminishing return Nuclear power will be taken over by the many Explosions will continually shake the earth Radiated robot men will stalk each other The rich and the chosen will watch from space platforms Dante's Inferno will be made to look like a children's playground The sun will not be seen and it will always be night Trees will die All vegetation will die Radiated men will eat the flesh of radiated men The sea will be poisoned The lakes and rivers will vanish Rain will be the new gold The rotting bodies of men and animals will stink in the dark wind The last few survivors will be overtaken by new and hideous diseases And the space platforms will be destroyed by attrition The petering out of supplies The natural effect of general decay And there will be the most beautiful silence never heard Born out of that. The sun still hidden there Awaiting the next chapter.
I woke up and wiped my ass with a shoe. I hit reply on a Bukowski thread and Jan wants to fuck. I smoke and she drinks some port wine and I realize that I forgot to hit the "reply" button so I hit it. I also realize I was supposed to be at work. "A job's a job," I say as Jan grabs my balls for round two.
>>7661420 Not popular. 1) /lit/ is, on average, too young. They're still at the Alice in Wonderland stage, fascinated with academia, they read David Faggot Wallace ranting about modal logic, dreaming of one day becoming college Professors in the only field of life they know, academia (4chan, => college Prof... nah, not likely, guys...) 2) Though /lit/ is not /pol/, the core of 4chan is strongly biased towards the right-wing. Bukowski is the son of a crazy violent father, heavily bigoted, obsessive and compulsive. Through his writing, Bukowski is trying to escape this. Though he finds the hippies a bit too sweet, he'd rather hang with a hippie than an obsessive compulsive wacko. /lit/ can't deal with this, if someone is not a raging hater, racist, individualist, loner, making 100k a month in IT or academia, then his writing is worthless.
I've never read good criticism of Bukowski here, but you'll have disapproving grunts like >>7661428, and people eternally quoting the same few lines about puking or sodomy. t.bh, I'm not an alcoholic, not a big fan of sodomy. This is like 5% of a Bukowski book (often 0%). (the most sex is probably in Women, but it's on topic)
But Bukowski is not pretentious. Remember that the same people here who say Bukowki is crap, regularly elect "Infinite Jest" as their favorite book ever (no story, pretentious ramblings for 1400 pages, rants about nail clipping thrown in a basket and other pointless rubbish...), but at least it's pretentious and looks good on a top5 list.
I've only read Factotum. It wasn't anything special. I don't understand how this guy made a living writing books or how he convinced anyone to publish him. At the same time, I kind of liked it and thought that certain parts were clever.
Someone posted a link to this reading of one of his poems and I thought it was excellent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlm8VjLQkj0
I'm tempted to check out his poems but I never really read poetry because I don't understand poetry.
>>7662582 I think a lot of his poetry is really good for people who don't like or "get" poetry. Factotum is definitely not one of his strongest books. I think Ham on Rye is one of his best, and then his short stories are also good. Tales of ordinary madness is a great read.
>>7661773 The thing I love about O'Hara is that he's very fun and sincere. I know that sounds cliche and I think new sincerity is bullshir, but overall I abou fun and sincere poems and o'hara I think is masterful at that.
>>7661772 >uses pretentious as a criticism >bitches that /lit/ lit talks more about a more relevant and recent author >conflates talk with universal praise >muh lyfe experience Bukowski is shit as a fiction writer because he appeals to teenagers who think the world revolves around them and their issues with mommy and daddy. Though with the continued infantilization of mainstream culture, his appeal has extended to manchildren who reject all complexity and nuance as pretentious because it's too hard for them to deal with.
>swans die in the Spring too >and there it floated >dead on a Sunday >sideways 'circling in current >and I walked to the rotunda >and overhead >gods in chariots >dogs, women >circled, >and death >ran down my throat >like a mouse, >and I heard the people coming >with their picnic bags >and laughter, >and I felt guilty >for the swan >as if death >were a thing of shame >and like a fool >I walked away >and left them >my beautiful swan
He is worth reading but felt like the first time I disagreed with my parents somehow..
there is enough treachery, hatred violence absurdity in the average human being to supply any given army on any given day
and the best at murder are those who preach against it and the best at hate are those who preach love and the best at war finally are those who preach peace
those who preach god, need god those who preach peace do not have peace those who preach peace do not have love
beware the preachers beware the knowers beware those who are always reading books beware those who either detest poverty or are proud of it beware those quick to praise for they need praise in return beware those who are quick to censor they are afraid of what they do not know beware those who seek constant crowds for they are nothing alone beware the average man the average woman beware their love, their love is average seeks average
but there is genius in their hatred there is enough genius in their hatred to kill you to kill anybody not wanting solitude not understanding solitude they will attempt to destroy anything that differs from their own not being able to create art they will not understand art they will consider their failure as creators only as a failure of the world not being able to love fully they will believe your love incomplete and then they will hate you and their hatred will be perfect
like a shining diamond like a knife like a mountain like a tiger like hemlock
i walk down the street at night in the rain without an umbrella because i'm a man to go to the liquor store to buy some liquor
i enter the store and there's a woman i want to fuck i grab some liquor from the shelf and bring it up to the counter and buy it "hello" i say to the woman on my way out "i want to drink this liquor with you."
we walk back to my apartment and i turn on the light and pour two glasses of liquor and we drink liquor and i fuck the woman and then tell her to leave and then she throws the bottle onto my kitchen floor and leaves so i go to bed and wake up in the morning for work and then i go to work at the post office because i'm a postman.
>>7662923 I don't see how you even can come to that conclusion. Any person I know who has even heard of him was either and English teacher or read his books in jail. Either way, I consider him one of my favorites. I'dk why I'm replying to your shitty bait.
>>7662921 you could write a whole book put of these mock poems and I'd laugh all the way through it.
a smile to remember
we had goldfish and they circled around and around in the bowl on the table near the heavy drapes covering the picture window and my mother, always smiling, wanting us all to be happy, told me, "be happy Henry!" and she was right: it's better to be happy if you can but my father continued to beat her and me several times a week while raging inside his 6-foot-two frame because he couldn't understand what was attacking him from within.
my mother, poor fish, wanting to be happy, beaten two or three times a week, telling me to be happy: "Henry,smile! why don't you eversmile?"
and then she would smile, to show me how, and it was the saddest smile I ever saw
one day the goldfish died, all five of them, they floated on the water, on their sides, their eyes still open, and when my father got home he threw them to the cat there on the kitchen floor and we watched as my mother smiled
my phone rang so i picked it up and said "Hello?" it was my printer in Europe waiting for my new book and how long until it was done? "Okay" I said "It's done when it's done" and hung up
Pam had a party at my house people drank my wine and laughed their dull laughs the doorbell rang so i opened the door and said "Hello?"
it was a young poet, Pam's friend, a no-talent and he brought his poems for me to read and they were bad so I said "Hello?"
this poet wanted to fuck Pam but I fucked Pam so I told the poet "There's no use in trying to talk about writing. Just write or don't" and he nodded dumbly, not understanding so I knocked on his head like I would on a door and said "Hello?"
>>7662961 What exactly is it with 4chan and the idea that everyone who likes something must be the same, or that you could even be smart enough to know? Like there are all of these little pseudo groups you fashion readers make up, when you're just as shit minded as the people you're describing and attaching to art and ruining for people who may be served well. Kill yourself.
>>7661772 >Being asking about Bukowski's ouvre >"Well Bukowski was a rude alcoholic. Nigga really came from the bottom, you know. His dad this and that. Did you know he came from the bottom? Also 4chan doesn't like him because 4chan is dumb (David Faggot Wallace XD). Fuck's sake, I didn't understand shit of Infinite Jest. Pretentious. And it's soooo long XD" Your post.
>>7663078 >opinion You don't seem to have any opinion on Bukowski's literature. You got opinions on everything else for what I read: David Faggot Wallace, 4chan users, Bukowski's family life, dumb people, academia teachers... C'mon dude, you had one job. Why do you like Bukowski's ouvre?
it's not poetry it's lined thoughts oscillating between garbled attempts at profundity (via knee-jerk, unthought philosophy) and self-awareness ("i hope they don't notice i don't know what i'm doing. maybe this line will razzle and dazzle them")
You probably just don't get it. It wasn't like he was trying so very hard. I find his work really honest, unchanged for anything. He wasn't ever trying to dazzle, but I think he dazzles very well and without 150 subfoot notes, useless meandering.
Read Shakespeare, John Milton, Alexander Pope, Walt Whitman
Poetry is as difficult as it is rewarding, you must be prepared to spend time with it, to take it seriously, to simmer in the words, to read poetry regularly and start building a sense of it (not by reading criticism, just by reading poems)
you won't regret it. I don't have the skills as a writer necessary to communicate the divergence I perceive between this drivel and serious poetry. Good poetry stops you dead in your tracks. It doesn't coddle you with political or philosophical perspectives you already have. It awes you with extraordinary wisdom about being alive, and shows you artistic perfection you did not know existed.
>>7662827 How do I into poetry? I've tried it so many times before but I just can't understand or appreciate it. School also made me hate poetry and even reading for a little while.
I never understand poems after I finish them. I never get what the author is trying to say. I don't understand the structure they use, especially when they use weird meters and unless the message is very obvious but also clever, they never leave me feeling much of anything except for feeling like a dumbo.
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